Even Cool Girls Get Lonely with Hoda Kotb…(S5 E2 “Unoriginal Sin”)

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Hello? Everyone, welcome to Are You a Charlotte? We are here with a really fun guest.

00:00:13
Speaker 2: This week, ho to Copy, and she is going to talk about.

00:00:17
Speaker 1: Her brand and podcast called Joy one oh one it's awesome. And also she's going to rewatch episode five oh two on Original Sin, which is season five, episode two, written by Cindy Schupack, directed by Charles McDougal. It's a good one.

00:00:34
Speaker 2: My entire team is like freaking out that I'm sitting here good. Oh sweet.

00:00:39
Speaker 1: Well, the thing that's funny to me is like coming from where we came, like you doing a talk show, which is a whole different animal, and me doing regular film and now we're in podcast world, which is super.

00:00:50
Speaker 2: LOOSEI Udy, are you digging it, by the way, I totally dig it in some ways.

00:00:54
Speaker 1: In some ways I'm confused, Like some people just do it in their sweat, right, And I'm trying to get there.

00:01:00
Speaker 2: But we can't. We can't. We need something.

00:01:02
Speaker 1: We need a little something right, Like I still put a little makeup on.

00:01:06
Speaker 2: I feel right.

00:01:07
Speaker 1: I mean, we have our comfy shoes on, busy.

00:01:09
Speaker 2: I know I'm with you. I do like the vibe of it. I love the vibe. I feel like lax. And by the way, one of the things that I feel like I was missing after leaving the Today Show was having beautiful conversations because you know, they were so baked into either life or just the makeup room or somehow you're having these good convos. But now we get to sit be curious about each other. We're allowed as long as.

00:01:38
Speaker 1: I'm absolutely that part's amazing. I love I mean, for mine, I have the rewatch part, which you know, it's like fun, but also sometimes I'm like, oh, I just want to talk. But it is also fun because it brings up so many like the show has so many interesting topics, right, which is kind of a jumping off point. But the thing that's nice for me because I'm a single mom, I like you, of two children, I don't have this time to see my friends and talked to people. Yes, so it gives you that in your life, this is interesting.

00:02:05
Speaker 2: I just Marias River posted something and it said life in the nineteen twenties and it went through ticking each year and it had categories friends and family, housework, hobbies, blah blah. And then it showed TV kicked in whatever in the fifties. Who knows when that happened, So then it was like TV. Then you see the shifts of the categories. But what happened over time was friendships that were huge dropped so far down because when we see someone on Instagram, we're like, oh, we saw they had a great vacation. I'll catch up with them, And then when you see them, it's almost like second reference. How was that? And you're like, I already saw the pictures, but how was it? It was fun, true, but anyway, it reminded me that friendships connection that gets buried because everything else, even like streaming Netflix, everything was so high, Instagram TikTok so high, but sitting face to face was near the bottom.

00:03:05
Speaker 1: I know, it's so so nice that we found a job that we can sit and chat and actually have a good conversation where you're not trying to get necessarily sound bites or whatever you would normally be doing in your job. Right, I know it isn't nice.

00:03:21
Speaker 2: I also feel like it.

00:03:22
Speaker 1: Is the wild wild West, Like you're here in New York on our same floor. You guys are our studios are now next to each other. Studio is also kind of a loose term. But when I first came to this floor in New York for the iHeart Building, the whole floor looked as though like a natural disaster it happened, and everyone just got it from their desks and ran out. Did you see now they've cleaned the desks for you, Hoda, I may.

00:03:43
Speaker 2: Need to know that. I think I might have missed that window.

00:03:46
Speaker 1: I was like, ooh, snacks, I know they have. That's for you. It's snacks for you.

00:03:52
Speaker 2: It's now very nice.

00:03:53
Speaker 1: There's now two dressing rooms and two studios.

00:03:56
Speaker 2: And then some one.

00:03:56
Speaker 1: Time I was here and there were three people and I was like wow, because when I came, I was the first one up here, or at least that I know. I don't know, probably when I wasn't here. I'm not I'm usually in a late as you know. But it was like everyone's like, get out of the building and they just left all their stuff like it was crazy. But here we are on the forethront of this crazy podcast world. It's really interesting, but welcome.

00:04:19
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm happy with you.

00:04:22
Speaker 1: I was so glad you because I.

00:04:23
Speaker 2: Feel like the longest conversations you and I have ever had are four minutes, I know, which is today show is in and out. We pack a lot in.

00:04:31
Speaker 1: It's true, but also there was like the commercial, you always feel like you and then there's seeing you in the durssing room seeing you know, so you feel, and then also over time which is nice, and then I would see you in New York sometimes, which is nice, right, But I agree, it's nice to have a format where you can actually go in depth, yes, and where that's actually applauded, you know, And also you can just go wherever you feel like going, I mean, especially on yours, because you don't have.

00:04:55
Speaker 2: I love by the way, I love it so much. I feel like everyone's like, no one has an attention span, you know, eight seconds on TikTok. I'm like, yeah, And people like to sit and listen to a good conversation. As long as it's good, they'll sit and listen. I will too. I'm the same. I feel like I don't have time, but when I'll stop in my tracks when I hear a great convo. That's true.

00:05:17
Speaker 1: But also the great thing about podcasts you don't have to stop like I do. The laundry and listen to my podcast. I drive and listen to my podcast. I'm not into the watching yet. I understand there are people who are into watching those people.

00:05:29
Speaker 2: I'm with you audio.

00:05:30
Speaker 1: With the new video or videos, the new audio or whatever.

00:05:32
Speaker 2: But I listen.

00:05:33
Speaker 1: But you can listen and function. But yet your brain is engaged in a way, or you're not so bored.

00:05:39
Speaker 2: Your chores, you know. I love that too.

00:05:42
Speaker 1: And also driving if you get stuck, because I'm in La right, you might get stuck having to go somewhere far.

00:05:46
Speaker 2: I know, and why not. I mean, look, I feel like you get to live one life and I get to live one life, and the only time we get to see beyond that is when we are listening to someone else's life experiences and to be able to go, well, I don't know that I'll ever live that. But I just learned a lesson that Kristen learned, or I just figured out something, or I like how this person described how they started their day and I kind of dig that, like I'm going to try that tomorrow, or just things that you can take I feel like. And then I'm someone who's always blabbing, I'm like, oh my god, guess what I heard, like as if I had invented whatever.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: The jewel was. That's great though, So wait, just tell our listeners because we're obviously we're over here in my world. Now we're going to go to your world. Lift, tell our listeners a little bit about Joy one on one.

00:06:33
Speaker 2: So Joy one on one is a company that I founded a year and change ago, Okay, right after I left the Today Show, which was kind of a big, huge, huge step for me. Yeah, and also a step that was exactly right for me. And the way I know when I've made a right decision in my life is if I can sleep. If I can sleep, then I know I've made the right decision, matter how difficult the decision is. And I'm a person that once I make the decision, it's done. I've in any job I've ever been in, I've never gone, oh, let me see what's happening back there so I can figure out if I should have stayed on that train or on this train. No, because I think you almost have to decide I agree and go straight before you have to make it work. Yeah, you choose, And I feel like life is a series of choices. So I also knew when I was leaving the Today Show that there was something else that I wanted to do. And I think, once you know something that's been bubbling up, and for me, wellness was Wellness is such a buzzword and everyone's in it or talking about It's almost like you yawn, You're like and a wellness company. And I was like, oh, good, good for you. But this, to me is more than that because the thing I loved about the Today Show the most was the joy piece, Like I felt like it was a place where you could find it, find joy, bring joy, and joy comes in. There's joy in sports, there's joy in music, there's joy and meditation, there's joy in all these different parts of you. So I said to myself, I have one, you know, I get one ride around the sun. That's it. So what do I want to do? I want to fill people's cup. Like I don't look, I don't care about how much something makes. I couldn't give a rip. What I really want to do is leave this Whenever I leave this earth, I want it to be like, Wow, they gave back, they helped out, they did something, they made someone feel better, because otherwise, what's the point. Honest to God, like, what are we doing? And so I so I said, let's start a company called Joy one oh one that has all these facets to it. It's a place where people can go on beautiful retreats and feel totally try transformed. Not like where you get a goodie bag and feel like you had a massage and heard someone great speak that was amazing, Not that okay, the kind that is immersive that when you leave you say to yourself, oh my gosh. That was one of these transformational experiences. And we put on one of these retreats, and we have another one that's coming up, two more of their scheduled. And I tell you, I've been to a ton of retreats. I don't know if you I love them. This one, by far was like transformational. And we had two hundred and fifty women two hundred of them wound up on a Facebook group together Wow without our help.

00:09:42
Speaker 1: Amazing.

00:09:43
Speaker 2: But it just showed the power of it. And we did things. We did breath work, We had incredible We had all kinds of transformational things that were next level. We did one breath work class where everybody sat in chairs opposite a stranger. Oh my, and you start the breath work with this guy named Anthony, and you breathe in and out, and you thought, oh, well, what's this going to be about? So what you know, breathe in and out. I've been breathing for sixty one years. But as you're doing it, you realize that something starts bubbling up and he's speaking about you know, the topic here is forgiveness. So you breathe. You're looking at a stranger's eyes, and you go through this process and then he says, okay, now stand up. Now you move down a chair, and now you look at someone new when you were finished with this exercise that looks just like, huh, I wonder what this is. I cannot tell you what happened. One woman said, I haven't cried in five years. I feel like a bottleneck. I couldn't. One person said that my husband was going through a difficult period and I didn't even think I wanted to come, but I feel replenished, renewed. Anyway, So these these retreats, and we have great speakers and we do all the rest too, and music and all the things nice. But so anyway, it was a way. This company was a way for me to do all the things I want to do.

00:10:59
Speaker 1: Amazing people out, Yeah, amazing. So you have retreats and then you have you drive people around in a.

00:11:06
Speaker 2: Car, people around in a car. We all joy right, okay, joy rides.

00:11:11
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like a conversation but maybe not as long as your podcast. And then you also have a podcast.

00:11:15
Speaker 2: And I have a podcast too, and then we do We're doing all kinds of really cool and interesting things that I think are going to be helpful to people. And I feel like again, like you know, I got to a certain age and I was like, why don't I feel the way I want to feel? Like I haven't changed anything? I meaning broccoli, I'm like spinning at soul cycle. I still don't have the sparkle and what is that? And is it findable? And the answer to me is yes it is. There are so many different avenues to try and there's so many solutions that are out there.

00:11:50
Speaker 1: Do you think, because it's interesting when you were telling me the different adjectives that you would perceive that you're doing that a lot of them are kind of service related. Do you feel you know, is that thing Over talks about about like different people have different kind of you know, things that are going to you know, satisfy them or please them or you know, give them deep deep of deep feeling of satisfactor faction. Do you feel service? Is that for you?

00:12:13
Speaker 2: Yes? Is Yes. I do feel like that's a big part of me. Yeah. I think it's like you know, when you when somehow you feel better and then you see your best friend or your sister or somebody doesn't right, and you're like, we could, let's let's help here, right, there are things we can do help, Yes, And I just feel like we're you know, it's the whole mister Rogers like, look for the helpers. I feel like that's what I want us to be, right, and I want to be and I want my kids to be I want kids to be those kind of people. So I do think services is the way that ID lean. And I also think we all deserve to feel good. Not everything is about oh so you're sixty whatever and of course you're feeling terrible. Well actually, no, let's subject that we don't think so no, no, yeah.

00:13:00
Speaker 1: Well that's kind of like that thing that society is going to kind of push on you to some extent. And I also think that the wonders of social media are that you can connect with people. But then sometimes the negative voices seem to gain power or the algorithm reward or something. So sometimes that can also be negative stuff coming at you about age, about whatever, you know what I'm saying, rather than the helpful part, which I think you have to look for.

00:13:27
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think it's funny. It's like that whole like whatever you put in becomes you. And it's so true. And I've you know, we've all gone through seasons where sometimes you're just in a funk, right and.

00:13:39
Speaker 1: You're burnt, are burnt out entire life, like we're going going doing doing, we're not really thinking about filling the cup. As you said, you know, everyone needs their cup to be filled.

00:13:52
Speaker 2: And I think it is like whatever you're you know how what kind of moods you're in, look at your algorithm. Whatever you're getting overdosed on, that's on you, because that means that's where you're stopping, that's where you're lingering, that's what you're interested in, right, and you really we all have to change our algorithm because I mean, look, you can have an algorithm full of you know, people giving money away to somebody and a beautiful affirmation and oh my god, FIFA they scored and the guy's giving his shirt to a competitive team. But they're all hugging, like you can have that algorithm definitely and see the world in that beautiful way. I was just my mom is in an assisted living place, and I was I went to speak bragging at their place. And as I was speaking, we were talking about how we all view the world. And a woman walked up to me and she handed me She said, will you sign my book? You know I had a book some books you will you sign this from me? I said, oh sure, Joes I had mine. I said, oh, I want, I want to see. So it was a poetry book and this woman named Peggy is a poet. And on the back of the book where it was a published book, where all of these beautiful poets who had talked about her incredible writing. And I thought, sitting here, you know, in this nice place, but this woman who has all of this beautiful knowledge and all of this stuff, and the way she sees the world is with beauty, someone else might look out at the same out of the same window and say, oh, what a terribly cloudy day. And she would write a poem about it. That would be something captivating interesting just thinking about, like you know, any like, look, you and I could both be sitting in these chairs and we're living in two different worlds and here we are absolutely yether, one hundred percent, and.

00:15:37
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I mean this is true all the time. I think, right, like people are in their own existence, and there's a lot that goes into that, and you never really know what's going on with people. And I do think also like you could only really control your own world and what you're putting back out into the world, right, and sometimes there's like too many like horrible, horrible things are happening to people, right and you can't necessarily just change that, as much as we would like to and as much as we all want to try.

00:16:06
Speaker 2: But you can create.

00:16:07
Speaker 1: Something positive that people can come to, which is what you've done with Joe warn One, which I love, and just in life, you can create something like I was I saw something I can't remember. Oh it's someone that I follow, actually, this young man in South Carolina. He has this dog and that I have dogs and elephants and cats on my feed currently and almost always. But he was so sweet. He was talking about how he had gone through this really hard since twenties, right, he was talking about He's gone through this really hard time. And then he really felt like, I've got to pull myself out of this depression. I'm just so depressed. I can't get out of the house. I'm just really down. And he said, I'm just going to start complimenting strangers.

00:16:46
Speaker 2: That was the first step he made. Wow, isn't that so interesting?

00:16:50
Speaker 1: He just in line at the grocery store and he turned to this really much, much much older woman and told her she liked he liked her dress, and he said she looked at him like he was insane, but that you know, once he just let it like stood there enough so that she realized that he wasn't like crazy or going to hurt her whatever. I mean, reason is a weird thing, right that once she realized he was just being genuine and wanted to say something positive, that it really meant a lot to her, and that it kind of derailed her day. That is in a positive way, isn't it. He's changed the simple things. Yeah, right, that was his first step, and then there's a lot of other steps that he made after that.

00:17:28
Speaker 2: Once he started feeling better, and.

00:17:29
Speaker 1: It was so great that he was talking about it because he's young and he doesn't it's not like he's practiced her worldly or whatever. But he's just like working on himself in a way and trying to put it out there in the world.

00:17:41
Speaker 2: And I'm so oppressed with that. The thing that.

00:17:53
Speaker 1: Also comes to my mind as you're talking about this is that in this episode, because you have very generously agreed, of course, you rewatch Unoriginal Sin, which is a super fascinating episode, and in it, Charlotte goes to a self help thing. I'd totally forgotten about this.

00:18:09
Speaker 2: By the way, I was so connecting with Charlotte. And first of all, can I just say Sex and the City premiered in ninety eight. That was the first year I moved to New York and started working at Dateline, and was, by the way, when I got to New York, I arrived from New Orleans scared of everything. Wow, couldn't understand how to navigate New York, terrifying. It's a lot, it's a lot. My mom came to help me move into my apartment. I had an apartment on eighty first, and as I was there, I said, I don't know anybody, and I don't know how anyone ever knows anybody. Yeah, and within I don't know how long my mom knew the guy who ran the bodega. The Starbucks barista had her order, Wow, this is my daughter. This is how she's kind. And I was like, wait, what's happening. My mom's introduced And then I realized you only had to know your singular block and then you had a neighborhood. Yeah. But Sex and the City was like almost like a warm blanket because I was like, wait, how to people? And then I watched you guys and I was like, wait, okay, so these are four cool girls who are navigating through They're all different and I so I had such a kind of warm blanket feeling because I used to sit in coffee shops alone because I didn't know with e like a read the paper or read a book. I'm like, maybe I'll meet someone just sitting here. And I worked at Dateline, so I was constantly flying to a prison in Kentucky or wherever. So I didn't even have a constant schedule tait be with my colleagues. It's like you're oh, you're gone right, or you're flying right. But anyway, it was so interesting, so to start off, that was such a touch point. And I can only imagine how many other women who were new to New York thinking can I make it here? Is it possible?

00:20:00
Speaker 1: Bowl?

00:20:00
Speaker 2: You know? Yeah, but that but Charlotte's whole post like breakup, the divorce, yeah, and the and the whole like I A quitting. I was like girls, she shows herman it's true, It's true. Yeah. The thing that I love.

00:20:21
Speaker 1: In this episode because I don't remember a lot of this, right, Like there's things that I remember really, really well. But once we get to a certain time, because in season three, I think we did eighteen and season four we did eighteen. It's a lot, right, And then also we're getting successful, We're going to all award shows. In your heads just spinning even if you're not at work, do you know what I mean? Yea, And things get a little fuzzy, so like I hadn't remembered everything in a linear way and I'd forgotten about this in between time when she's divorced from Trey, hasn't really gotten together with Harry yet, right, It's an interesting time and Charlotte never gives up. That's one of the things that I love the most about her, and she almost always believes.

00:20:59
Speaker 2: But here in.

00:20:59
Speaker 1: This episode we're seeing her falter, We're seeing her not sure if she can still have hope. Yes, rare, this is rare.

00:21:07
Speaker 2: Well, right for starters. Yeah, the fact Charlotte's always hopeful, so you always feel like I see a part of myself and her. I'm like, yes, of course it's going to be happening. Of course you're going to find him. Of course it's going to work. You know. It's that hole I tell my kids thoughts become things like think the thing, think the thing, cross become things. Right. And then there was that part where at the self help meeting when the cheerleadery go go, you know woman in the front who was like telling everyone you can have everything, and she was on my nerve. Sorry, I know. And then the fact that your character that Charlotte stood up and said, actually I am trying, and she's like, no, you're not, I know, which is like the dark side of us anyway, maybe I'm not trying, I know.

00:21:50
Speaker 1: And I've been to self help things like that where they are really critical of you.

00:21:54
Speaker 2: I have been to that, and it is messed up. It's messed up the way she kept saying no, and you're like, well but actually I'm putting myself no, not enough and not in the right way. Moving on. But every woman who has tried, and you know, sometimes you have your blue sky friends who are like, just go, just do this, and you're amazing.

00:22:16
Speaker 1: You're right on your mirror, like you see Charlotte writing on.

00:22:20
Speaker 2: I know, what was it? You're loved or whatever. I know when you're taking the lipstick first of all, any affirmation I'm for. But there was something that's almost heartbreaking about someone who's almost like you're you're you're doing all the right thing. Yeah, it's like I followed the rule book. Where's the end here? Doing what you're telling me? You know? And they say, you know, like life happens right on time and you can be you know, forcing it or maybe it's now or maybe if I was just this way, or maybe I tried to be like that, I could find the brass ring that everybody else has and where's mine? But you know, here's to all the late bloomers out there.

00:23:00
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and also I just think it it, you know, and for Charlotte, obviously we know so much is coming. But it's so interesting to see, like I so relate also to trying so hard and feeling like, Okay, I'm going to follow this person who's going to tell me what to do, right. And so she drags carry to this thing, all women there, all searching, right, and this woman up there in her suit is like, well, are you really?

00:23:27
Speaker 2: Are you really? You know, it's just hars It's.

00:23:30
Speaker 1: So harsh and annoying. And I just love how Charlotte really bravely, so bravely stands up and says, you know, she really is trying, but she did have it all and then it just totally fell.

00:23:40
Speaker 2: Apart and she doesn't know what to do.

00:23:41
Speaker 1: And she's been doing the affirmations because I do think affirmations are a tricky one because there's a lot of people on Instagram and everywhere else TikTok telling you about affirmations, right, And I do love affirmations, but I also feel, and then I'm talking about Kristin in life, not Charlotte. I also feel that sometimes you're doing like a rote affirmation that you think you should be doing, but your body knows that you don't believe it. Do you think that's.

00:24:06
Speaker 2: Something I believe it one hundred and you kind of go through emotions. It's like a pretender, like, let me go through, and I'm going to keep saying that and saying that you're right if your body doesn't believe you. And look, sometimes repetition helps and sometimes it doesn't sometimes.

00:24:21
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes you don't know what else to do. And in that case, I feel like that's a positive thing. It's a lot more than beating yourself.

00:24:27
Speaker 2: Yes, doing something that is important.

00:24:29
Speaker 1: Something positive, something towards.

00:24:31
Speaker 2: I do something with my kids. I actually heard someone say this, and it's about repeating things and it works to put them to sleep, but it also works to calm yourself, any of us, let's hear it. So the first thing, okay, so when I say, I get them tucked in bed, and the first thing that we say is I am safe. So you repeat it, I am safe. Not until I am safe, I go keep keep saying it, sweetie, I'm safe until your body goes your body believes that I'm saying. Okay. The second one, which is my hardest one, is there is no urgency. There's no urgency. Wow, there's no urgency. And you repeat it and repeat it and repeat it not until your brain gets it. You keep repeating it, and there will come a time no matter how many times you have to repeat that, your body goes okay. And then the last one is I am still and calm. I am still and calm, and you repeat it until your body size. And when your body size, it means your body's like, okay, you're right, I got you. But those three things my kids often fall asleep. I do it sometimes before a big speech, yeah something, because it's like a it's like there's no urgency, it's gonna happen, and when you're done, it's helpful. But when it comes to affirmations, I get it. There's some blue sky kind of BSc things that you feel like please, you know, I mean there are a point like I have so many affirmations on my feed that after a while sometimes I roll it. I'm like, Okay, here's another one. But I think it's like, you know, using them sparingly and using them in the right way like Charlotte right.

00:26:20
Speaker 1: And I also do think that like if you're really thinking about times like I can think about times, you know, in my twenties where you know you're just you don't know what's going to happen, and life is just like crazy upside down. You don't know what's going on. That's a better thing to do than a lot of other things one could be doing. Right, So I think there's exact something seeps in somewhere.

00:26:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. I try to go to as many of those kinds of things. I was listening to a guy who does a podcast and he said, for he's he's wanted to be a coach, and he ended up being a great one. But he said, for every weekend, for fifty two weeks in one year, I went to some kind of a thing like that. It was a week in retreat and online learning a thing. I made it a habit. Wow, for fifty two weeks a lot I was going to learn something. I was going to do a course online, or listen to whatever, go to the ninety second street y and listen to a speaker, or do whatever. Did all the things for fifty two weeks. And imagine if you did that for one day, one one, you know, two hours, for three hours, for a year, how much richer you would feel inside, how much you'd know, how much you'd feel different. That's interesting. I thought, it's so interesting yeah.

00:27:35
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think there's so many different kind of modalities and you know, meditation theories and yoga and different there's so many different things. And if you do go on a on a kind of journey to find one that clicks with you, that's one.

00:27:52
Speaker 2: I think that's key.

00:27:53
Speaker 1: But I also think not everyone can do that, right, So then it's it's nice to know little kind of almost like tricks and tools on along the.

00:28:00
Speaker 2: Way right totally, which is cool.

00:28:02
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about the episode for second, because I can talk to you about all things. But we're going to talk over in your room later. It's going to be really fun. Okay, So this is a cool episode because we're back. This is us coming back in season five after Branda has had her baby, which is a very big shift and change for our whole episode. Can I also say our whole show? You have given such sweet interviews over time about Sex City.

00:28:35
Speaker 2: It's so sweet like love.

00:28:37
Speaker 1: At one point you said something about you that you felt like it let other people know who are like sitting by themselves in their living room, that we're single, that it's okay, we're all together.

00:28:47
Speaker 2: That was such a huge I don't think I mean maybe you guys do know. I'm sure millions of people have come up to you over the years and said, hey, you don't know what it meant, But there is when you can see yourself, your situation in somebody else and realize, like, wait, even cool girls get lonely, or wait, even cool girls get confused, or even someone's mistake make mistakes. Yeah, and even someone who can be like like Samantha such a boss and also can be so vulnerable, and you can see like all these different parts, and I think there was something about that that made all of us feel like either less alone and also it's fun to see something ambitious. It's like, oh, well, clothes, fun, Okay, what are they doing? Where are they going? So New York can be this too, this fun, cool, vibrant, glamorous place. And sometimes you just eating a pizza in your apartment, which is most of the days, right, most of the time, it you know, kind of felt like that. But to see that they were by themselves, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's nice.

00:29:53
Speaker 1: It's so nice to have people like yourself out there.

00:29:56
Speaker 2: You know, of course, god you know what.

00:29:59
Speaker 1: I mean it, But at this point in time, it's fun for me. To look back because some of it I really remember. Some of it I don't write like I did not remember. This is the great episode where Anne Mirra comes as Steve's mom.

00:30:12
Speaker 2: Oh right, right, saw that right by the way. First of all, the fact that Miranda never met her, right, that was so for some reason that was so jarring in rewatching it, because I rewatched it too, I was like, wait, how what does that say about their relationship? If you have never bothered or never wanted or he never offered, Like, what does that tell you? Well?

00:30:35
Speaker 1: It says a lot of things, though, which is interesting. And it's interesting that we're now shifting right because the theory and the plan from the get go had been that we wouldn't see everyone's family like we never see mine.

00:30:46
Speaker 2: We don't see carries, right.

00:30:48
Speaker 1: We talk a little about them peppered through. There's little hints, but Michael Patrick and Darren believed, and I think Candice in her original column, you know in New York you don't say, like, where are you from?

00:31:00
Speaker 2: Parents?

00:31:00
Speaker 1: Right, Like everyone's here, now you're here. Now You've come here to this great city for some reason. Right, You probably were talking about that reason, not about what you liked that's interesting.

00:31:10
Speaker 2: I didn't think about that. Yeah, that makes so much sense. So when she popped up, it was extra like wait what Yeah.

00:31:17
Speaker 1: And also because she pops up with I mean, she's just so fascinating immediately, first.

00:31:22
Speaker 2: Of all, everybody loves her right, and secondly to watch her in that role and she's so yeah, oh she's so good.

00:31:31
Speaker 1: Crowds that like being with her, and she's a sweetheart. I mean she's just a sweet, sweet lady. And there were so many connections. I think Sir Jessica knew her.

00:31:41
Speaker 2: We all know Ben.

00:31:42
Speaker 1: Of course, I think Sir Jessica knew Jerry. I mean I feel like Michael.

00:31:47
Speaker 2: Patrick might like there was connections.

00:31:49
Speaker 1: But I also feel like it was kind of like the dream was to have m play Yes Steven's mother, and then it happened, which you're just like, you know, it's amazing, it's amazing. And also just the New York lore that game with her and carry incredible.

00:32:06
Speaker 2: I mean, you just perfect. You just forget all these cool people who popped up. We were so like everyone was probably knocking on your door. I don't know if.

00:32:17
Speaker 1: They were not going on our door. I know that we would always really just try, you know. We would always have our dream, our wish, and sometimes it would work out, and sometimes it wouldn't, like scheduleise or whatever, this or that. And I think sometimes like when isn't this the episode where Emmy Sidaris and Molly Shannon are sitting there too, which is so funny.

00:32:34
Speaker 2: I've forgotten that was one of my favorite little scenes.

00:32:39
Speaker 1: It's great they play like book published, they want her to write a book, to write.

00:32:44
Speaker 2: A book, and and and I know, and Carrie's kind of like trying to be real in there. She's also like.

00:32:49
Speaker 1: Do I want to I just like Carrie answer is yes. They're funny, so brilliant, so funny. And I know when I knew Molly had been on the show, and I knew Amy had been on the show, but I didn't remember in what way. Yeah, And then to see them there and they're so believable as book editors.

00:33:08
Speaker 2: I believed, and they were runny, sassy, and they were sassy, and they were like, because you're hopeful, right, what's your point of view? And She's like, well, I think right.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: And this is like one almost pretty much a downtime for Carrie because Aiden's gone, Big is gone, big has moved to NAPA, Right, that's what happened at the end of the last sear that's right.

00:33:27
Speaker 2: So now and now. And she thought it's so funny because when things start going wrong in life, and she was thinking, I have nothing to write about. My column is terrible, nobody likes it. I'm writing about boring things. And you know, when you think everything's going wrong, and so her editor is like hounding her and she's like, I'm not taking that car.

00:33:46
Speaker 1: I'm going to get fired.

00:33:47
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get fired. Right. It's so funny how life is. You think that everything is like cascading, right, when in reality he walks up to her and says, hey, good news. Right, we want you to write put this in a book, or someone wants you to one hundred percent.

00:34:00
Speaker 1: And I also thought it was interesting because number one, she absolutely believes that everything's bad because she's writing about socks and she can't come up with anything right, and she thinks she's gonna get fired because that's her mindset, right, But then the world is actually giving you something different, So it's kind of the opposite of affirmation in that way, right, But then when they try to give it to her, She's like, well, I don't know if I want to write a book, and samanthas like, yes, you do. Everyone and their brother has a book. There's a word anything as a book or whatever. It's funny, but you're also like Carrie, like you know, expand your thinking there. But she's so.

00:34:36
Speaker 2: Interesting and she's thinking like, my life's got to be here and the book's out of my reach. I can't write that.

00:34:42
Speaker 1: I also think some of it is the times right, because like if you think about now, and I think because everybody, all of us are doing all the things and are able to thank goodness. But also I feel like because of social media and the way the world has changed, everyone is able to create their brand and do this to do that, and I think we're all much more aware.

00:35:03
Speaker 2: A good point. So back then you wouldn't you would think of a book as a huge mountain to climb. Now it's sort of like, you know, check out who's got a book out this week? Exactly. That's so interesting that. So I just love how she her character is such a fierce defender of you and the other characters. I just love the whole idea that you've got everyone needs a friend who's like, uh uh, you're not messing with my people. Like I love that you all have that together, but displaying that, I mean, that's the thing.

00:35:34
Speaker 1: It is really interesting to see the things that live on, you know, and the things that are the strongest messages that come out of it. And I feel like the friendship part of it is the strongest thing, you know, And all of the relationship things we can talk about and they're interesting, and I think that relationship stuff lasts forever because it's always on people's minds, right, Like it's never going to change, and the specifics might change, like now there's dating apps whenever we didn't have y, but the issues are still the same, right. But the friendship and the strength of the friendship, the importance of the friendship now, I think are much more accepted in society, which is back then everyone was like, well, I don't know that much time to spend with my friends, which was true, you know, but also now I think people realize, no, that's important.

00:36:17
Speaker 2: That's actually super important. Yes, that's such a good important fact. And in that episode too, when you're talking about it, it was sort of like Carrie's character just wanted to be with the girls, and everybody else was thinking about, well, we got to meet guys, right, and she was like, but what about us right here? It's true? Is true? Or do we come here together? That's so true?

00:36:42
Speaker 1: But it's also like that's kind of different, and I do you think, like in the nineties when we started the show, you know, people are like, oh, you're all just talking about men. I feel like that's what it was. Yes, I mean, it doesn't mean that you didn't enjoy being with your friends, but you are together with your friends trying to figure the men out because they were confusing. You know they still are, but you know what I mean, they were very confusing back then because they were like elusive and withholding and all of those things. Was just totally normal, Right, It's all interesting. You didn't even talk about those words back then.

00:37:12
Speaker 2: Isn't that so funny? How? But it's all still so relevant. Like when I was watching it, that's the other thing that struck me. I was like, it is so interesting that all the topics and I'm sure you've noticed this. I mean, it's so cool that you're doing the podcast this way. I love this format of breaking it down because you're right, there's so many things in each one that's like a life lesson, a way to believe what's this about? And I just think it still holds like it does. This is crazy.

00:37:40
Speaker 1: That's the writers, you know. The writers were just so great and they took so many chances. Yes, because HBO allowed us also, right, we didn't have focus groups, we weren't on a network, we didn't have to worry about advertising.

00:37:53
Speaker 2: You did your own things.

00:37:54
Speaker 1: They let us do our thing, which was so rare, right, so incredibly rare. But when I'm watching this particular episode and the I guess it starts at the finale of season four when she has the baby, because that's a huge, huge, huge departure, right, And now all of a sudden, we've got Anne Mirra, we've got a mother in law even though they're not married, right, and we're going to a church to baptize the baby, and we suddenly are in like a like a drama. Like the music starts and it's beautiful.

00:38:26
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. And I thought it was so interesting about you and Carrie's characters, Like your character was so upset that she wasn't asked to be the godmin I know, and Carrie was just sort of like, I don't know if I want to do that another round. I'm not sure why we're doing this. Why does she want? That's your general thing.

00:38:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting, it's very interesting.

00:38:47
Speaker 2: I know I did.

00:38:48
Speaker 1: I did feel bad for Charlotte then too, because I had forgotten, right and I'm like, oh, no, that's going to hurt her. Yeah, you know, because Charlotte is so sensitive. And it is one of the things that Michael Patrick talked about when they decided to have Miranda have the baby was that it was about trying to, you know, Charlotte. This is what Charlotte wanted, right, the dream wedding, the dream husband, the dream baby. But she can't get everything she wants because that's just not how life is, right, and so everything fill apart and she can't have children or she has trouble having children, and so what's that going to be? And she has to always be coming up against that, which is what makes it interesting, right. But then it's also you know, it's like everyone's kind of down in a really interesting way, you know, But yet it's also still beautiful.

00:39:34
Speaker 2: It was beautiful. It was so there was something so beautiful about it. When they were pouring the holy water on the baby and the music and the music, and then that scene about how the holy water kind of hit Carrie's arm, and it was like it was just so and she said and she made some comment about that, you know a lot of some of this holy water lands on me and does. But as I was watching the whole vibe of everything, totally agree. It was just such an like you don't, I mean, I can't. First of all, I can't believe all these things happened in one episode. That's the other thing that's crazy by I was like, pack it is.

00:40:08
Speaker 1: Yes, it's insane. It's insane, but okay, so let's just go over carry a little bit. We covered a lot of the big things, I mean, and you're right, there's just so much that you can't even get your mind around it or whatever. But so we go to the self help thing and I was just so so it's one of those times where you're because I couldn't really remember. I remember I had to stand up and give a speechy kind of a Charlotte thing, but I didn't remember the gist of it. I didn't remember that lady was going to be mean to me and how many times have I felt that in like you go, you're going to try to get help, and yeah, these people they have there's like a negativity often times in these kind of self help worlds.

00:40:44
Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that you stood up, your characters stood up spoke volumes to me. It's a room full of people, you know, you're feeling kind of weird. Think about the courage it takes as a kid to raise your hand in class and say the thing, especially the thing and it's contrary to what this.

00:41:02
Speaker 1: This other lady is just like, yeah, I did what you said, and I've got.

00:41:05
Speaker 2: It all and I got my husband in all but in two days, like okay, and so to have the courage, which the thing that spoke to me was you ever do you ever see The Dead Poets Society that movie? Do you remember when he stands up on the desk and says, a captain my conct So I always think about that, like what does it take to stand up? To be the first one to stand up, not the second or the third, the one who says I'm going to risk it. I'm standing on this desk, I'm talking to everybody. I could go down and I don't care if I'm all alone. It's like that feeling. And when you when your character stood up there in that moment and knew, I'm sure like you picture heart pounding, palm sweating saying the thing. And then when she gave you the cheerleading speech after you said I had everything and I lost everything. I don't think it's coming. And then she gave you the speech of like, nope, just keep on going, and you're like, actually, even more, it wasn't like you went, thank you, sit down.

00:42:04
Speaker 1: And I thought she might because I didn't remember what I did right, because she's a people pleaser.

00:42:08
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and I didn't. And so many women, I think, are the kind who were like, I'm not going to say anything. Maybe someone else will say the thing, right, you know, and then I'll say, oh, yeah, I felt that too. I don't have the gots to stand up and actually say it myself, but I think it spoke a lot about your character. And then when it was over your portion, and then Carrie jumps in and so she gives an extra swing and says, no, she did she Hey, she did. She tried. The woman's like, no, not hard enough, you know, but you felt the friendship and the courage and the bravery and all the things. Absolutely when you're weak, when you're both weak in a weak state, right, and to be able to do that is pretty cool. I agree.

00:42:53
Speaker 1: It was great and I hadn't remembered it, but it was so good. And it's just one episode.

00:42:57
Speaker 2: Yah.

00:42:57
Speaker 1: It's also the shot. Wow, I know we were just firing on all Cylanders at this point. Yes. So then then we so back to the book part for Carrie, which is also so funny because we know later on she writes multiple books, right, and like, you know, it's interesting to see. I had forgotten how we kind of track along with her in.

00:43:16
Speaker 2: The show, right.

00:43:17
Speaker 1: But also the show is based on Kansas's book, which was from her column and a paper. It's all really so interesting. And then obviously we make it into the show, and then at some point they talked to carry about making it into a movie, but they talk about it. It's all very interesting. Meta is kind of meta, right everything, And when all of a sudden we see Molly and Amy Sedaris there just cracks me out.

00:43:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, those two are those those two just sitting next to each other. I was laughing before.

00:43:44
Speaker 1: They so fantastic I know, so fantastic.

00:43:46
Speaker 2: I believed. I believed every single too, me too.

00:43:49
Speaker 1: And then Molly went on to be on Divorce with Sarah or her show that she did after an HBO, and Amy's one of her best friends, and we see them all the time, which we love, we love them. It's so wonderful to have those.

00:44:00
Speaker 2: I just think Amy period is like incredible gold.

00:44:04
Speaker 1: She is just such a unique human being in all the ways.

00:44:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's been on the Today Show many times and I can't remember what she was doing she crack. I just remember laughing. I don't remember what she did.

00:44:19
Speaker 1: Oh, she's funny, doesn't matter what she does. I agree, I agree, I agree. I've seen her in her off time, so sometimes she's not funny, which is also interesting.

00:44:28
Speaker 2: I'm always thrown by comedians who aren't funny in the moment, even though how can they possibly be? But of course, and I'm sure I always think about that when I'm interviewing a comedian like I wonder how hard it is to always think, now, do the thing again, you have to see. I just interviewed Seth Myers for Art for the podcast, and I thought, I mean, he was so naturally hilarious. But I was wondering if every time they sit down, it's like, Okay, I can't be just the older I am at home. I can't just be the guy who you know sits and then you know, plays my cat. I gotta I gotta turn the lights on, I gotta throw yeah.

00:45:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I also think, and I don't know him well enough to know, but I also think there is the thing too, where like if they don't have that, then they're really unhappy.

00:45:18
Speaker 2: Also, right, like they need they need they need it, right they do, Yeah, they do.

00:45:23
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Now, it's interesting. I mean, I'm sure their wives, you know, we should ask their wives what goes on? All right, let's talk about we talked about Charlotte. I mean I had forgotten all this. I forgot about Charlotte and Carrie sitting there in the cold. Whenever we would come back to work, it'd be February, and in this particular episode, it's wet.

00:45:43
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I did notice. I noticed that you guys were breathing.

00:45:49
Speaker 1: Because there's nothing you can do.

00:45:50
Speaker 2: No, And by the way, how do you not appear like I cannot be cold? I cannot be in the cold, look like it I agree.

00:45:58
Speaker 1: I'm I'm always cold and it would be very sore. I remember when we were sitting there doing that scene. I I think, and I could be wrong. I think Sarah Juska is already pregnant, but I think no one knew, but I knew, and I was really worried about her because it was so bloody cold, yes, and I didn't think she was wearing a warm enough coat because sometimes we would do our fittings, we'd have our whole outfit plant, but we wouldn't put the cold into the equation, right, And then sometimes Pat would have coats in case it was cold, right, And I was like, you know, she's got to get a better coat. But she didn't want anyone to know, so I couldn't make a big fuss.

00:46:35
Speaker 2: So you were like, you're good.

00:46:37
Speaker 1: Right, But but I was likeal cot coat because you know when when you're acting and they have the coats that they run in with what you do on the Today Show too, and you had to go out because sometimes it was bloody cold there. Okay, I remember that, but you could wear a coat, but like sometimes they bring an extra coat, right, That's what it was when you're acting, right, when they all cut. They our dressers would run in with coats and like, bundle us up, but then to take it back off and you try not for shatter.

00:47:02
Speaker 2: You're like, maybe just not bring the coat exactly.

00:47:05
Speaker 1: But then are you going to get sick?

00:47:06
Speaker 2: Right?

00:47:06
Speaker 1: You don't want to get sick. And then because I knew she was pregnant, thank you, thank you well. That's what was also funny is that there's a couple of references in here to Sir Jusica not being maternal. She's so maternal, but Carrie is not her, which is impossible to remember, right. But I also I love the what they're building in about who women are at different times in their lives. And then your friends start getting married.

00:47:32
Speaker 2: Or having children or whatever.

00:47:34
Speaker 1: How do you deal with that? Why did your relationship? It's very interesting and it's interesting to look back on because obviously a lot has happened since then in our lives, right, But I think they did it really well. And there's always that time where someone hands you their baby and you're like, oh my god, I know I know.

00:47:51
Speaker 2: You saw her holding so she was she pregnant? Then?

00:47:53
Speaker 1: I think so, I think she was early pregnant.

00:47:55
Speaker 2: I was just hoping crazy working out baby.

00:47:59
Speaker 1: Yes, but so much stepth you know in there, And I love it. I think that's so real to how life is right, like you don't even necessarily know how you feel.

00:48:10
Speaker 2: About it all. Yeah, you know, right, and then suddenly you're thrust into that situation. You're like, Okay, how do I feel? Is this right? Does this feel like the right thing? Exactly? Exactly? I love that.

00:48:21
Speaker 1: So I had forgotten about this whole thing that I've drugg carry out there to look at men and who would we sleep with?

00:48:27
Speaker 2: How insane?

00:48:28
Speaker 1: It's so funny.

00:48:29
Speaker 2: It was hilarious, and you were like, she had like zero I know I had so many one on earth.

00:48:47
Speaker 1: And then of course her book editor comes tells her, no, he's not going to fire her. He wants to write book, which is great. And then there's the affirmation thing which we went through. Doctor Cheryl was her name.

00:48:58
Speaker 2: Hysterical.

00:48:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I need to find from the writers who who she was?

00:49:03
Speaker 2: Right? But she was perfect. She was perfect because they're kind of a little scary. And also that fake cheerleady.

00:49:10
Speaker 1: I know I know it there right now, who are like this?

00:49:15
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

00:49:18
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, don't you Yeah, you're like, I'm.

00:49:20
Speaker 2: Listened to me, I know, and I'm like, look deeper, you guys, yeah you know. Yeah.

00:49:25
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not saying that people aren't giving something that's useful, but I think that when they get too big, sometimes that does happen. There's a little something that's interesting, right, Yeah, it is interesting.

00:49:38
Speaker 2: That is it's like you're right when you discover some somebody kind of on Like I'm a big like I love a Ted talk. I'm like, let me. Yeah, talks are great, eighteen minutes long. Yeah, you're not going to be bored, and it can be totally inspired and they seem authentic and real, Yes, and I think they are.

00:49:55
Speaker 1: I think it's what happens later, Yes, that things might go.

00:49:58
Speaker 2: Yes, you know what I mean, right, because you adjust for your audience and then you change and then you know, they need to monetize, And so.

00:50:06
Speaker 1: I think the need to monetize is the thing that leads up to some wackiness, right, because how can you monetize if you're not pretending to have all the answers? Yes, And I think that anyone who's pretending to have all the answers.

00:50:19
Speaker 2: Right, and plus nobody likes them in the end anyway.

00:50:22
Speaker 1: I know, it's a it's a limited thing. It's interesting though, because I feel like, especially currently where I think like things are kind of just upside down or whatever, and people really need something to follow and you know, help like to feel some sensitive point control or or better or whatever, and they maybe are drawn to some people who maybe are I don't.

00:50:46
Speaker 2: Know, that's interesting right when you are lost, it's interesting who you'll follow.

00:50:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean I do think there's probably something a kernel in everything that's helpful, right, But then it gets to be too you know, it's like it grows past the point of the original idea. I don't know.

00:51:04
Speaker 2: I don't know.

00:51:04
Speaker 1: You're in this field. You're going to figure it all out for us Monday, Okay. I really want to talk about the Miranda storyline, because I also have totally forgotten that this is when Anne shows up when the baby gets baptized, which I'd also forgot about because she's not even religious, right, and it makes so many jokes about it.

00:51:24
Speaker 2: I know. And then Carrie was like, look, I don't even know what I believe, and she and Miranda thought a very poignant moment was like when Miranda says to her, I don't know what I believe, but I believe in you. Yeah, And it was like you're like, oh, okay, then you're the godmother. Yeah, and how about that weird godfather? I know what on our god? Who was he? Oh?

00:51:44
Speaker 1: My god, I don't know and we should find out. And also like are we going to see him again? I mean, I think what's happening? And I need to find out for Michael Patrick because Michael Patrick's very Catholic.

00:51:54
Speaker 2: Right.

00:51:54
Speaker 1: What I felt was we opened the door to Catholicism and it came in all of the relatives and every things, which I'm sure are people in his life like that.

00:52:05
Speaker 2: I felt they.

00:52:06
Speaker 1: Were so interesting. I have to find out if that's true or not. But that's what I felt because we I do feel like just.

00:52:13
Speaker 2: The whole other thing happened, yes, and the.

00:52:15
Speaker 1: Music it's so beautiful, but also they kept saying they don't believe in it, but it's still so beautiful. I think this is Michael Patrick's feelings.

00:52:24
Speaker 2: Oh that's so interesting. Yeah, I mean, working with such a genius guy.

00:52:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty amazing.

00:52:31
Speaker 2: Cool. I mean because usually you know, like I don't know with any any project or anything you work on. Sometimes you peel back the layers and there's really nothing there. Right. We didn't really think it through. It's just like here it is to do that. That does, but this is not that like every piece is connected to something.

00:52:50
Speaker 1: Yes, it's true, and I mean sometimes it's not him. Right, Like we have these incredible women Jenny Bakes, Cindy Shoe Backgar executive producer writers who had Jenny had come in for season. Syndey comes second season and they escalate, you know, they get like co executive producer credit. By the end, they all got stolen away with big deals the networks. Like they became this like wow, super desirable.

00:53:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:53:12
Speaker 1: We were so sad to see them go. But on the other hand, we were so happy for them.

00:53:15
Speaker 2: Right, like you know that, yeah that's awesome.

00:53:17
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they all got got like poached out from us.

00:53:20
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:53:21
Speaker 1: It was really slightly traumatic, but also would also you know, yeah, definitely cool. It was really cool because they had both just started as just regular writers and then they just put more and more of themselves into it and like all these the dating stories were the female writers' stories.

00:53:37
Speaker 2: Oh, they were.

00:53:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, they had to be either their stories or someone they knew story, or they didn't put it in the show.

00:53:43
Speaker 2: Why was that just?

00:53:44
Speaker 1: They wanted to be real, believable, authentic. Yes, And so it's fun to have them on and say like, well, where did this come from?

00:53:50
Speaker 2: Where did that come?

00:53:51
Speaker 1: There's always some fascinating story.

00:53:52
Speaker 2: By the way, that's cool. I didn't know that either.

00:53:55
Speaker 1: Great they thought everyone thought it was our story. That would be insane. You can't act your own story.

00:54:00
Speaker 2: It's weird, you.

00:54:01
Speaker 1: Know, we'd be like self conscious. No, it's much easier when it's other people's stories.

00:54:05
Speaker 2: But with the.

00:54:05
Speaker 1: Catholic thing, I'm sure it's Michael. But then the other things. None of them have babies yet. In Life Rights we were all yeah. But I mean like even like the writers, no one had to be because we were working all the time. Right, So I think it's like sisters, babies, friends, babies, things like that right where there, And that's why they're the carry You don't trying to say.

00:54:27
Speaker 2: They're kind of like, I don't know how to do. What do I have to offer? You know what I'm saying.

00:54:33
Speaker 1: I think that was their experience.

00:54:34
Speaker 2: That's interesting, right, because no one has No one was going down that road yet. No, we were at work all the time.

00:54:40
Speaker 1: We were I mean, Cynthia had a baby before we ever started and was just handled it amazingly. And then she's about to have another baby, and Sarah's about to have her first baby. Got it, which is why the fifth season ends up being very short because we think we can hide the pregnancy, but we cannot do it. No, her shadow, she would be all dress because she's so tiny, right that there was just this bump like a basketball was under there, whatever, and they would camouflage it, and then her shadow on the street would have the bump.

00:55:10
Speaker 2: Like.

00:55:10
Speaker 1: That's when we were like, oh, the gig is up up.

00:55:15
Speaker 2: I know what.

00:55:15
Speaker 1: We did our best. We did our best, but this is about to happen it or I think there's early pregnancy and no one knew that is what I think at this point. I know, and I'm just happy that it all worked out.

00:55:26
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

00:55:26
Speaker 1: And then Samantha storyline, so this is the craziness with Richard, which you know, I had not realized that Richard stays for so long. It's interesting.

00:55:36
Speaker 2: Well, it showed that storyline was so interesting to me too, because it showed you that these powerful women like Samantha is with a guy who was a you know, cheater or what, not good enough for her, not good enough for her, No, and still somehow she was desperate for him and you know he it's just every there. Anyone who's ever been cheated on in their life knows the feeling and then the apology and then the big present and I'm so maybe but no, and deep down you wonder, right, can you live with that playing out in your head? But I was so because you know the idea of is he cheating or is it in my head? You know? Yes, that's another you know, she kept seeing women and then wondering like, right, you know, it's horrible. It's horrible. If anyone, I'm sure lots of people who are listening have had an experience where you know there's been infidelity, it's like you feel like when you know, you know, but sometimes you know, a man could be very convincing. Now, that's wasn't how it happened. That wasn't how it went down. I mean, what are you thinking? You know? And then you start questioning and you're saying to yourself, oh well, but anyway, it was so interesting how to your friend the friend group was like I hated him. It was good. Yeah, I liked it.

00:57:02
Speaker 1: And also it's so weird and interesting to me that they had him.

00:57:06
Speaker 2: Who's this super powerful worldly guy.

00:57:08
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, like Samantha's equal in so many ways. Right, and then he's saying he got scared, yeah, which is such a normally I guess it's not just a female thing. I'm trying to think now, but like, and then he comes up with the baptism and tells Miranda like, oh, I was I was scared.

00:57:25
Speaker 2: I mean really really sure, I know. And Miranda's like, I believe I was scared. That's why I cheated, Right, Okay, you gotta come up with something better, right, I know, I know.

00:57:36
Speaker 1: And it's also it's not like let's say Samantha was like we have to get married. Like let's say she suddenly suddenly became Charlotte. Right then you can see that he might have some fear of impulse to run or whatever, but there's not that it's bizarre.

00:57:51
Speaker 2: I was just like, WHOA, I.

00:57:52
Speaker 1: Don't remember any of this, and it's kind of interesting.

00:57:55
Speaker 2: Well, and I think this her dead sprint up the stairs to catch him in the act. And if you've ever thought your significant other is cheating and you're like about to jump in there, you know that the fear in the beginning, it's like, oh my god, everything, this is it. It's happening right now. And for her run in the door, swing the door open, and he's there, clickety clacking on his computer, looking at her like she's crazy. And so then you're like, well, maybe was she a look crazy? And then when she leaves the room and you watch that same you know, housekeeper with the boobs out and the towels looking at her like mm hmmm, like you we all everyone knows the game, okay, and we know the game. It's the worst game. It's depressing, it's sad, it's just the pits ya. And you know, in those cases, it's like it's so hard because your friends know and they try to tell you. But I mean, look, we've all been in situations where you're like, I told her, she's mad at me. Now she doesn't speak to me, and they're tee and then you're like, well, that's so true.

00:59:01
Speaker 1: I also think it's interesting because it is such a departure for Samantha right. It's so interesting to see Samantha be in that situation, which I think is also interesting writing that they were like, Okay, first of all, we want Samantha to actually fall in love. Then we wanted to actually get hurt and try to make it work, which is kind of impressive for her to even try, right, So I guess it's all about, like, within that character, what's growth, And in some ways that is growth for her right to even try to be hopeful in that situation.

00:59:33
Speaker 2: But also you feel like he's.

00:59:34
Speaker 1: Not worth it, at least that's how I felt, right. I felt the same, right, right, right, So we know he's going to go, so it's okay. That's one of the good things about rewatching. It's like, well, we know we're not going to suffer.

00:59:45
Speaker 2: Down this too loss exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:59:48
Speaker 1: But also it's funny because sometimes, like with Steve and Miranda, I watched them and I'm like, okay, wait, I know where we get to in the film, right, but I have no idea how we get there, and I know we have Blair Underwood coming, so I'm so yeah, it's so interesting, But like they keep the threads going so expertly. Yes, but I think that's also how life is, right, Like you can have a connection with someone, but that doesn't mean it's going to work out in whatever way you wanted to do it. But then also that doesn't necessarily go away either, and it can you can't choose to try to make it work out.

01:00:22
Speaker 2: Like it's interesting to me, I do I believe. Yeah, I totally agree with you on that.

01:00:27
Speaker 1: Miranda also, she could have totally ended up with Blair's character that was dreaming, right, because he's incredible.

01:00:35
Speaker 2: I loved him, right. It's hard.

01:00:38
Speaker 1: It's interesting to think about because I'm like, wait, what about Blair. I'm like, oh, but then the Brooklyn Bridge and that kiss.

01:00:44
Speaker 2: No, I don't know.

01:00:46
Speaker 1: But it's amazing that we have this length of time with these characters.

01:00:50
Speaker 2: Right, to see them through all the seasons, all the things. I love it episode.

01:00:58
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to get I do have one more personal question for you?

01:01:02
Speaker 2: Yes, oh yes, are you a Charlotte. I am a part Charlotte. Okay, I'm the optimism. I have the optimism of Charlotte. I would believe, I hope till the end, I have some carry.

01:01:17
Speaker 1: Love it and observation, yes, and analysis.

01:01:21
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. And then I have the boss that I think both Branda and Samantha have a little boss a little bit. I'm in charge, sorry, So I think I have those two traits. So I'm gonna But of course, any optimist has some Charlotte.

01:01:36
Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely, I love that so much. That's a very balanced.

01:01:41
Speaker 2: And I have a little bit of each. Yeah, but I'm more optimist than anything. I love it.

01:01:46
Speaker 1: Well, you have a podcast called joy War, and you have a whole brand, so you definitely got some Charlotte in there. Definitely, Thank you so much for that.

01:01:56
Speaker 2: Was so great.

01:01:57
Speaker 1: I know it's really fun and I'm gonna come talk about.

01:02:00
Speaker 2: Enjoying with you.

01:02:01
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:02:01
Speaker 2: The way you're so good at this, well, thank you.

01:02:04
Speaker 1: I mean that that is a very big compliment. Thank you so much. You're so easy. You m