Dr. Viviana Coles reveals why modern dating is chaotic and how many matches men are dating at once... (S4 E4 "What's Sex Got to Do With It")

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Welcome back everybody to Are You a Charlotte? Part two? Today, we have a super fun and interesting guest. Her name is doctor Vivianna Coles. She is a licensed marriage and Family therapist and a certified sex therapist. We're going to talk about episode four, Oh for what sex got to do with it? Thanks for joining us. Here we go. I love Miranda storyline. It's not that involved, but it's so relatable and it leads to her eating from the trash, which is one of my all time favorite Miranda things ever to do.

00:00:43
Speaker 2: Ever, Okay, it's not just a Miranda thing, you know. You know you have done, you have beaten out of the trash.

00:00:51
Speaker 1: I mean I might have. It's hard to think of because I've got my kids, right and so, like I would need them to be in bed, dirty mean, like if they're in bed and not watching, because you can't do things like that in front of the kids really. But like I feel like sometimes I throw like candy outer things, you know, and then I'm like, oh, why did I throw that away? I want to eat that, you know, But I it's it's it's rare. It's rare, I have to say, But do you think it's so so adorable? Like her whole storyline is about how she's on a sex strike, which is really funny, and she's going to replace it with chocolate then and John Stewart, which is so cute, and then she just keeps eating the chocolate, and she buys this expensive chocolate, but then no, she's gonna buy it, and then she doesn't. Then she got her Betty Caracker. I mean, there's so many adorable things in this storyline. But then in the end she goes back to her vibrator. What do you think about that?

00:01:48
Speaker 2: Oh, faithful?

00:01:49
Speaker 1: I know, what do you as a therapist? I mean, I don't know how many, Like do you also see single people or just coupled?

00:01:57
Speaker 2: I do? I see single people more specific, single people who are coming out of having had a really painful relationship, whether it was three years ago or three weeks ago, and they're like, I just don't want to repeat that, so please help me date?

00:02:14
Speaker 1: No way, Yeah, and you help them date?

00:02:17
Speaker 2: Yes. I need to go more men, more, more and more men are coming in for that. No way that it was more women, but now more and more men are like, I don't know. I will say I think that men are a little bit better about just saying it. How it is like they're like, I, I don't want to be seen as an f boy, Like I don't want to be that guy. Yes, well good for them, good for them.

00:02:50
Speaker 1: This is gives me home. This is great. So you're saying, they come in and they're like, I don't want to be seen as a boy. Wow, And what do you recommend for someone who might come in saying this.

00:03:01
Speaker 2: I want them to be I encourage them to be very honest, because on the other side of the couch, typically I will have women who are coming in and say I can't trust anybody. All they do is, you know, these men are lying. These men are lying. So I'm like, okay, let me. Nobody likes that. But if you're dating, like, just don't lie about the little things, don't lie about the big things. Just don't lie, and then you can actually probably find somebody you know that'll lied to your pot. And I think I was literally just working with somebody, a single man this morning, and I was telling him, I said, look, this dating that you did with this particular person for the past six weeks. You have come in every week and told me everything that's gone on. We've gone over your feelings, your thoughts, what she said, how you did all that. You didn't do anything. I can't tell you that you did anything wrong. She just wasn't aligned with you. She doesn't want the same things at the same time. But if I were you, I would tell you to do everything that you did the exact same way. And he was like, are you kidding me? Like no, Like I think if it didn't work out, that means I have to do something different, Like there are two people involved here, definitely, And she told you she's not ready for what you're wanting. That doesn't mean you have to change, right. So while that doesn't happen often more often than not, I'm like, yeah, you gotta tweak this, you got to tweak that. But with a lot of them, it's just be honest, honestly, Like if people can just be more honest, and I don't mean necessarily direct or blunt, because that I feel like there should be some finesse there. But if you're honest, I think you'll be much more likely to have a really good relationship or a really good breakup, and that's better than the alternative.

00:04:48
Speaker 1: Definitely better than the alternative. I mean, it's all very interesting because I am a single mother of two children and it takes all my time up. But when I first started this podcast, everyone was like, you should get on the dating apps, you should get and I didn't want to do it, and I still haven't done it. And it does seem like it's this whole culture of the swiping, and then people text with other people, but then they don't ever see them in person.

00:05:14
Speaker 2: Apparently, well now they're not even texting with each other, they're texting with their chet gubut. It's awful and it's only getting worse. Y'all. We need to get back to dating in the wild. I think I've been married for.

00:05:26
Speaker 1: Over eighteen years, so wow, impressively.

00:05:29
Speaker 2: I do think that dating in the wild. All those people who are like, oh I can't show up to singles events, well then you don't need to be in a relationship. Go meet somebody through someone, Go do something that you love and that or that you're interested in, and talk to that person next to you. Maybe they don't end up being a good fit, but maybe their brother is. Maybe maybe their cousin, maybe their coworker. The other thing that I was just talking. I was on a local show here in Houston, a late night show where anything goes by the way I so fun, and I was I was talking to one of the bartenders and he said, he's like, I just don't understand how people are are dating. But they're not They're not going to places where they would want to spend more time. I'm like, exactly, you should be going to do things that you would want to do, because then if not, if you go to this thing and it's not at all what you're into and you meet somebody who's into it, then you're already starting off at a death of it. Sure, it's wild, it's wild. Dating. Dating in the wild is now I think where people should be going good.

00:06:40
Speaker 1: I like that very much. I like that very much. Let's talk about Samantha, because we didn't talk about Samantha Bohy does. She has some interesting things. Okay, so just fundamentally as a sex therapist, what do you think about I mean, Samantha has this you know, kind of joy in terms of like I'm going to do exactly what I want, you know, when I wanted how I wanted all of the things. She's very in charge of herself and her sex life, and then she decides kind of randomly. It seems like to me to date a woman which we haven't ever seen, and not even just to have sex with a woman, but to be in a relationship with a woman, which to me seems like a.

00:07:20
Speaker 2: Pretty big meet for Samantha.

00:07:22
Speaker 1: Right.

00:07:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because I think it was Carrie who's like, wait a minute, you're in a relationship.

00:07:28
Speaker 1: Right, right, right, totally it's shocking. Yeah, definitely, what do you make of that?

00:07:33
Speaker 2: I think Samantha was so attracted to I think her name is Maria, right, so attracted to Maria's self confidence, And that is true. I'm always telling women, if you want to be sexy, show that you're confident. It doesn't matter what you've been through, what your body's been through. But if you're confident, you're going to attract and you're going to be magnetic. And I think Samantha was just like a off drawn to a flame, to this woman who is even more so confident sexually and confident in who she is and what she wants and with her body. I loved that Samantha was like, do you know that we have three holes?

00:08:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was pretty funny.

00:08:17
Speaker 2: Oh, just Samantha not know, I know, I know, I that's huge, And that just goes to show us like she's really learning something. She's getting this education that sometimes can only come from another woman.

00:08:30
Speaker 1: For sure, for sure. And I also feel like it might also be because she hasn't really been in relationships with these guys, she just it's kind of limited in terms of her exploration. I guess I don't know if that's the right way to put it, because I guess it's all for a short time, it's everything and then it's over, right, which with the man that's going to be totally different than what it looks like with a woman.

00:08:52
Speaker 2: It is. And the fact that Maria was like, oh no, no, no, we're not going to do that, like we're gonna talk and we're gonna we're gonna you know, this isn't about sex, and it was almost like a well then what it's you know, she's thinking, what is this about that? Right? And then she finds out and you know, maybe I think Samantha was probably not a lesbian like she proclaims. I think if anything, she really just was very attracted to this one particular person. Right, maybe she's bisexual, but I think more than anything, she was just drawn to this person's soul and drawn to this person's spirit and confidence, and it I think it almost turned into like a sexual mentorship.

00:09:35
Speaker 1: I agree. Now, if someone came to you as a client and said, like, let's say Samantha was your client, and she said, you know, I haven't ever really been with a woman, accept in a threesome with the guy, but yet this woman I'm just so fascinated, would you say like, yeah, go for it. Or would you say like, well, maybe we don't want to jump all the way in. Oh what would you say?

00:09:56
Speaker 2: I mean, they're adults. What they're doing is safe, sane, and consensual, so I have to go for it.

00:10:02
Speaker 1: I got it.

00:10:03
Speaker 2: The harm is there regardless of who you're dating, as far as getting your heart broken or possibly having an issue with harmor abuse or anything like that. So I would have said, you seem so enthralled by this person, I think you need to see it out or else she'll be the one that got away.

00:10:21
Speaker 1: You never know, interesting, So you wouldn't because part of me, when I'm watching it I'm thinking, like, poor Maria. You know, Sam's not really gay.

00:10:32
Speaker 2: I think Maria had her number. I think she got I think she knew who Samantha was and was probably like you know what, I'm I think she got something out of it. Well, I think it was nefarious. I don't think it was manipulative. I think just one of those things. It was probably really entertaining.

00:10:51
Speaker 1: Too, right, right, right, right, everyone.

00:10:54
Speaker 2: It's always nice to feel like you are ahead of the game sometimes, and I think think, you know, sometimes it can make you feel a little puffeel, little good about yourself to say, you know what, I know a little bit more about this, and that can happen with sex too.

00:11:08
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good point. That's a good point because that is kind of how she is. She is the mentor, as you're saying, and that must be fun for her.

00:11:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's the guide, yeah, sexual spirit guide.

00:11:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. That's well put. That's really well put. I mean it is such a departure in so many ways that sometimes I'm like, wow, I can't I can't believe we did this. And cool, you.

00:11:28
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, very cool. And going back to Miranda, uh huh, you know, a lot of times people can get they can't swap out one addiction for another. And you know, I'm often working with singles who are dealing with maybe a pornography addiction at times addiction to the chase, right, chasing a partner but not necessarily wanting to be with them. Yes, chasing attention. Yes, we're all chasing something, but sometimes it can become really overpowering and addictive. And I think with Miranda that kind of crossing the wires of the food with the sex. We both haven't turned we all, but those those two urges are very strong. Hunger and sexual appetite and desire, they're very very strong. So there's a reason they call it appetite. It's it's very similar. So this happens more often than not. And sometimes when people try to go with the abstinence, they turn to food.

00:12:31
Speaker 1: Oh goodness, goodness, that's so interesting. I never really thought that through. I mean, I guess it just makes sense to me when she does it, right, Like I guess there's part of all of us that relates or whatever. But I don't know that, Like, I don't know that it was necessarily something where I was like, I'm not going to have sex. It was just what was presenting itself, right, So then chocolate, it was just.

00:12:53
Speaker 2: Like, oh no, I just haven't been with any seen anybody.

00:12:56
Speaker 1: I want to be right, right, But then there's there is some chocolate, So yay, one of.

00:13:02
Speaker 2: The life's guilty pleasures.

00:13:03
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. I wonder back to the to the apps and the as you were saying the chase you know to me, And I've mostly talked to guys who are on the apps about this when I was trying to figure out, like, how does it actually work, and it did seem like because you can, it's access to a lot of people without a lot of effort.

00:13:38
Speaker 2: Right, bitment and effort. Right, yeah, it's so gamified right right.

00:13:44
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem healthy.

00:13:45
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of great things to say about the apps. Very rarely have I found that people have only positive experiences on the app, but like most people don't have positive experiences in dating in the wild either. True, But I just feel like it's it's very lopsided. I think it's I think that a lot of apps are geared towards just consumption, consumption, consumption, but they're not really geared towards Hey, let's see what happens when I try to connect with one person. On average, men are dating seven people online at once.

00:14:30
Speaker 1: No, that's a lot.

00:14:33
Speaker 2: Whow And I bet you if you were to ask ladies that are on the app, it's up there now too because and a lot of them will say it's a numbers game because they're talking to people, but they're not necessarily in conversation. It's not And you know, I will often tell people like, look, if you connect with somebody online or in real life, and you are both dating with a purpose, dating with intention, or at least feel like you are or want to be, then you need to ask them to give you a month of just dating you just one month. If you ask somebody for three months, are it's going to be like, whoa, that's too much of a commitment. But do you say, like, for one month, can we just date each other and then if there's nothing there, we can move on? And a lot of times they're like, oh my gosh, that seems so bold, and I'm like, it's one.

00:15:25
Speaker 1: Month, totally totally. But I do feel like that's where the apps have kind of led the dating culture to this consumption. As you said, just like so much, so much. And then the other day I can't remember what I was looking at, but it had it must have been Instagram. It had like questions to ask someone on a first date, and it was a long list and they were very involved, and I was like, wow, if anyone asked me all these questions on first date, I think I would have a breakdown. But it was things like you know, tell me the last time you Oh, it was like, it's it must have been because I follow a lot of dogs on the Instagram. It said what what did what does your pet think of?

00:16:07
Speaker 2: You? Like?

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Really interesting things.

00:16:11
Speaker 2: Okay, if that's like the one question that's cute, right, because it's you know a lot of times I've heard people say a version of that, But I love that, like, you know, you might get some insight. But I think that that's more of a question that you should ask yourself. Just a lot like when people say how would your kids describe you?

00:16:32
Speaker 1: Right?

00:16:32
Speaker 2: And now there's a trend going around where it's like, how would your kids describe you if you went missing?

00:16:37
Speaker 1: Oh?

00:16:38
Speaker 2: Which is kind of funny. Which is kind of funny, Oh dear, Yeah, Like how how would somebody how would your best friend describe you, How would your colleague describe you? How would your child describe you? How would your dog describe it? I think that that's a really cute way of getting you to to say, hmm, how do I come across to others?

00:16:59
Speaker 1: Got it? Do you think these are good questions?

00:17:01
Speaker 2: I mean don't. I don't think there. I think if you've got a long list though, there.

00:17:07
Speaker 1: That is a job interview, right, right, right right, it's too much work. It seemed like work. There's a long list. But I guess you're right. It is like kind of just thinking outside the box, not just like where did you grow up or whatever like that can get kind of kind of dupe.

00:17:20
Speaker 2: Or if you were to tell somebody like, you know, tell me what are your flaws or you know, because that's basically what you're asking is like what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses? That's a that's a very invasive question. Yes, when you're trying to keep things light on the first.

00:17:33
Speaker 1: Date, yeah, i'd be so scared.

00:17:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, these days with dating, though, there's a lot of pressure you you will likely not get a second date, and so there's the sense of it's not just first impression but I need to figure out what I need to know before I even try to get a second date.

00:17:52
Speaker 1: Interesting, it's just tough.

00:17:54
Speaker 2: It's tough with the volume, the sheer volume of people that are online, and and the fact that we give all of them like zero point three seconds of just a picture before we keep going. I'm very fortunate not to be dating online right now, or dating in general right now, said my husband. We went out a date last line.

00:18:14
Speaker 1: That's good. That's good.

00:18:15
Speaker 2: But I do think that talking to your friends and even just telling others I'm looking for somebody special. If you think that there's somebody who I could possibly have something in common with and you know that they're not psychos, send them.

00:18:32
Speaker 1: A way, definitely. So I have another question. It's kind of a general question, but I'm just curious because of your specialty, right, if you're talking to people who are dating, where would you put chemistry?

00:18:45
Speaker 2: Initially, it's not at the top. Interesting, it's not at the top, because I do believe that there is something to chemistry in terms of like whether or not you get a positive or a negative feel from someone or vibes. Right, it's like, but that could also just be that they had an awful day, they got cut off in traffic, they got bad news, Like, you don't really know where those vibes are coming from. And so if you're only giving somebody that first date to find out if there's chemistry, I feel like you're just cutting yourself off at the knees. It's so important to plan on having a second date. And there are some people online who will say, no matter what, you give somebody a second date. And I absolutely agree. Interesting unless they did something that was incredibly harmful, or even just like maybe they said something that was just repugnant, right, they could have just been having a bad day and having a second chance to then confirm or deny what you're sure sure sure thinking is important.

00:20:00
Speaker 1: That's interesting. So with your couples, if you're thinking about people who are married and might come to you because they're having intimacy issues, is it something where do you ever think to yourself? I don't know, maybe this is not a good question for therapist, but like you know how sometimes you might have couples where they were like super attracted in the beginning, right, and everything was very hot and heavy, and then they get married in years later and the children and the jobs and everything and it's not so hot and heavy, but then they can refer back to that, Like I've heard people talk about this, like you need that kind of intense time in the beginning so that you have that kind of ability and shared memories to harken back to. And then there's other people, and I mean I'm talking about my friends really right who say, like, it's better if it builds slowly in the beginning, because then you're really getting to know each other and that's where it's coming from. Does that make sense?

00:20:55
Speaker 2: I think if you're trying to be at a long term relationship, you can't go with having either one of those. That's not where people go wrong is whether they're they're slowly built up or they start off strong and then but it's that it doesn't transform into something long term. They think if the fire isn't just burning at four hundred degrees, that something is wrong. I think we're not compatible.

00:21:21
Speaker 1: Got I got it.

00:21:22
Speaker 2: And that's actually one of the reasons I wrote this book before intimacy styles. That's why I wrote my book because there's so many people who are like, how do we how do we connect in that way? After so long when life gets in the way, and it's the answer to we know our love languages, but what about sex? And then I started getting the question more and more often from interviews from clients, from just people who corner Medanna party, how do we keep the spark alive? How do we keep the spark alive? So one of the that's my next book that's coming out. I'll have to be.

00:21:58
Speaker 1: Back, hopefully fantastic.

00:22:00
Speaker 2: But it's called pillow Talk, and it's all about that underlying current of sensuality that couples must keep alive in order to dip into when they want to have sex. Sex can't just be cold hot, cold hot, turn on the light switch right. And a lot of women will tell me it feels like we won't talk for what feels like three days, and then the next time he wants to talk to me, it's to have sex. And it makes zero sense. It feels like sex comes out of nowhere, is what they tell me. Like, okay, so you need to be able to have little flirting, talking, touching, joking. You need to be connecting on a daily basis so that that intimacy, the spark is always there. It may not be a roaring fire. Maybe the roaring fire only happens on Wednesdays at eight pm, when you've scheduled sex, which I'm a fan of, or when you go on vacation with each other. But it can't, it can't come out of nowhere. It's not satisfying. Women are not built this way. We can't just have it go cold to hot, and men to a degree don't either. But they're just a lot quicker with the fantasies, right, They're able to get that arousal going. So I'm just I'm a big fan of transitioning to something that is more long term, and I love to talk to people about how to do that because I do believe that being in if you're going to choose to be in a healthy relation or in a relationship, it needs to be healthy. It does. That's the only way it's going to enhance your life, enhance your businesses, enhance your parenting, all of that. And when you're not there are resources out there. There's really no excuse to not know what to do. Like Trey, I know what to do.

00:23:48
Speaker 1: I know.

00:23:50
Speaker 2: To deal with things these days.

00:23:51
Speaker 1: Right right, Okay, I have one really pressing last question for you. Are you a Charlotte.

00:23:58
Speaker 2: I am absolutely Charlotte. I mean absolutely, and all of my friends have told me I am such a Charlotte. I don't even curse. Like when she said the F word, I was like what and that's how. Yeah, Like, i am such a Charlotte. And I'm so glad to be on with you.

00:24:16
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, You're amazing. We definitely want to have you back. That was super super informative and thank you. Thank you so much for everything in the books. I can't wait to read the books.

00:24:27
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Yeah, I love the topic. I love love and it seems like you do too. I do.

00:24:32
Speaker 1: I do. But also it's just great to have a professional you know, and you're you're in it and you've been in it for a long time, and I love to hear like the reality, you know, what's actually happening for people out there in the world. It's really helpful. Thank you, thank you,