July 29, 2026
Dr. Fauci Takes The Fifth, But Calls Out Sen. Paul’s “Unhinged Obsession” With Him
Apple Podcasts 
Spotify 
Castro 
RSS Feed It’s been a shocking and disturbing Senate committee hearing on Capitol Hill today with Senator and fellow Doctor Rand Paul leading the charge against Dr. Anthony Fauci. Before testifying, Fauci acknowledged what he called Paul’s “unhinged obsession“ with him and said because of Paul’s repeated public pledges to put Fauci behind bars, he had to invoke the Fifth Amendment. As Senators hurled insults and accusations at Fauci, at one point, Paul threw Fauci’s attorney out of the hearing, repeatedly telling him to stop talking. While Fauci received a preemptive pardon from outgoing President Biden, he could still be held liable for anything he testified to during today’s hearing.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Wednesday, July twenty ninth, and a fascinating hearing is happening on Capitol Hill as we speak. Doctor Anthony Fauci is being questioned about COVID, where it came from, and the country's response. He is getting peppered with questions, but he is only giving one answer, and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and Tuesday Robes. He's given the same answer over and over and over and over again. The hearing is going to keep going for a little while, and he is only going to give this response. Can you read it to the people. This is the answer that doctor Fauci is giving, has given, and it's the only one you're going to hear from him today.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Based on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer, based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. Boom said, Yeah, you said he was being peppered with questions, and while that's true, I would go a step further in saying he's being peppered with absolute criminal accusations. Yes, and that is why he cannot and will not answer the questions, because he knew going into this that this was a bit of a witch hunt.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: They are setting him up and waiting for him to say anything that can haul his ass into the Justice Department. For holy hell, folks, this was supposed to be a huge day, expected fireworks. It was billed as the battle between the two doctors, doctor Ran Paul, the chairman of the City Committee, and doctor Anthony Fallacci Robes. I don't think. I guess we can remind people a little bit, but even if you're watching the news a little bit over the past five years, you know these two don't like each other.
00:01:54
Speaker 2: They do not like each other. And look, there are plenty of lawmakers and folks and people who believe that doctor Fauci is literally and criminally responsible for the COVID outbreak, for the pandemic, and they want him there to answer questions. He was subpoenaed by the Senate Homeland Security Committee and Governmental Affairs of which rand Paul is the chairman. But truly, yes, they brought him there to answer questions. But this was political theater. I mean, this is political theater, I have to say. Just watching it and even knowing that he's going to respond the same way, it's been remarkably dramatic.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: Crazy you're still on the edge of your seat, even though you know there's not going to be an answer to the question. They have taken advantage now Robe so many of these Republicans, mainly they are right now doing a little audition for tonight's cable news. Everybody is doing their things, yelling and screaming at him, hoping you get the call to get roped. It's all grand standing, it's all political theater. Now are there questions, legitimate ones about COVID, but we still should be asked because we still don't know exactly where COVID came from. There's not a consensus in the health community still, so that part is legit. But Robes this from the jump. Ran Paul has said how many times publicly he wants Fauci in prison.
00:03:16
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean as many times as you'll listen. He'll tell you that doctor Fauci should be behind bars period for his role in the COVID outbreak. You know, it's one of those things where we all saw doctor Fauci as somebody who was guiding us through, leading us through. And yes, what we knew about the pandemic changed and we were learning different things, and so a lot of folks point to the fact that he had different advice in the beginning. At first he said don't wear masks, and he said wear masks, and so then people started questioning his science and his credentials. But the truth is this was a pandemic the likes of which none of us in our lifetimes had seen before. And look, science is complex, and to your point, we still don't know the origins of the coronavirus that sent this world into a shut down, lockdown mode for several months.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: So there in line, you just hit on the two things herebes one he said, we still don't know where it came from. Well, Rand Paul believes he knows where it came from. He believes it came from a lab in Wuhan, China, where research was being going on that was funded in part by grant money that came from the National Institute's Health that doctor Fauci was a part of. So there you go, that's his connection. You funded the lab that unleashed this to the world. That's one point.
00:04:42
Speaker 2: Yes, And he says, because you funded the lab that unleashed this onto the world, you then are now lying and covering up the truth so that you don't get held responsible. So yes, he's accused of being a part of the problem or the lab that they claim created this byvirus. But then the bigger accusation I believe is that he's covering it up, that he's lying, that he's misleading the public to save his own ass.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: So that's rand Paul's theory. And then the other theory Robes, And I don't know how split it is the medical community if it's fifty to fifty, but there's no consensus either way. Did it come from a lapse and believe that, and others believe Robes. It did occur naturally in bats, and the bats transferred to some other animals who then some kind of way sub the transmission went to humans. That's the other theory, and a lot of solid doctors and groups believe that, and doctor Falci believed it as well.
00:05:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and we knows, and I say we meaning scientists, the scientific community knows that this is oftentimes how bird flu, avian flu, swine flew yes, and COVID nineteen. These types of viruses begin in animals and they can spread to humans, and some of these viruses can then mutate to spread from human to human. That is what has happened in our world's history. We've seen it happen and repeated and look in China, some of the practices that take place where people live with their animals, they sleep with their animals, they have these wet markets where they're around freshly like actually animals are slaughtered in these wet markets where people are and so all of this mingling is what creates some of these viruses that go on to do significant damage to the world's population.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: So that leads us to today, it's okay for us to debate this, figure it out, try to find evidence. But what's happened robes is that they are and I say they are rampoles leading the charge. But yes, many on the rights, many conservatives to point to h They were upset about schools being shut down, businesses being shut down. They were upset, and now they are robes. They made him out to be a killer villain.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: Today, I was just going to say that they have actually stood or not stood. They have sat there with their microphones and they have announced to the world that doctor Fauci has blood on his hands, that he is a murderer, that he is responsible for the deaths of so many people around the world. That's a that's a heavy and huge accusation.
00:07:18
Speaker 1: It is Robes and you you they're sprinkling in. He got to do uh what was it? A Vanity Fair article? He got to meet celebrities and he was impressed by them. He got to make some money, he was writing a book. And so they're throwing all this and they're actually saying this man lied to everybody and was okay with millions dying for the sake of him enriching himself. And they actually said that on Mike Robes. I'd try to be open to some things, but that's not reasonable to why can't we give this guy credit? Because from what I saw Robes, and we interviewed him plenty throughout the pandemic. I was shit how many times he kept showing up on television sets. He was out there doing everything he could. Roapes. He has a fifty year career of this stuff, and today he's reduced to You're a murderer who only wanted to get rich. That's a stretch for me, bag.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: It's a big stretch. And look, I know that people may have their opinions about how he handled it, but that man didn't sleep. We I mean truly, we interviewed him. I lost count how many times we sat down with him, and he took the time to explain what the best science was at that point, what they knew at that point, and look, whatever people want to think, I can tell you just from my perspective, and I am almost certain you share the same one. He was being genuine, he was being transparent, he was being authentic. He was giving us the best information he had at that time, and sometimes that information changed, sometimes the directives were amended because of new information that was being learned. But I never, for one moment, felt like I was being duped or that he was using the media to further his own agenda, or to spread lies or false falsehoods to cover up what may have happened. I do believe that, as a human and as a journalist, that his heart was.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: In the right playoff. He was doing the work of a doctor. It's hard to fly Rose, It's just it's hard to was there anything anybody? And I know what people feel about Governor Cuomo and everything that happened to him in leaving office for Robes, there were no two people that made me feel better then when Fauci stood up on TV and those daily updates from Governor Cuomo, because he sat there and he went through it methodically and calmly and gave you updates, and if it was bad, he said it was bad. And Fauci same thing, Robes. He tried to assure us, reassure us constantly. And I think it is sad what's happening today that they're taking this man down for the sake of some cultural war or to win in some way politically. They are tearing a man down who spent fifty years trying to save lives and now he's bro That's just that's not right.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: I agree, And when you see public displays like this, because I think we do need answers, and there are appropriate questions to ask doctor Fauci and others who were a part of trying to figure out the origins of this pandemic. We should be asking questions, but we don't need to be making threats and accusations against public servants. And that is what he has been. And I just have to think, what other doctor, what other intelligent, smart, learned person would want to put themselves in that position of public service if this is where it leads if things don't go the way people want them to. It actually, to me is so discouraging just to even raise your hand and be a part of the process, because if you make an enemy or someone doesn't like what you say, this is what you're subjected to.
00:11:07
Speaker 1: That was a Democratic senator who suggested exactly that. He says, he's going to make this difficult for good scientists to get into public service. You're making it difficult if we're going to treat people this way. But this thing started off, and sure enough, Ran Paul, the chairman of this committee, Wrotes. He started off, and we saw the direction things were going to go. But I thought it was I thought I was bold. I said, what the actual hell his opening statement he suggested or directed, almost demanded or expected Fauci to apologize and ask for forgiveness from the PUBLICA.
00:11:38
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, we actually you have an excerpt from his opening This is from doctor rand Paul. He said, frankly, the American people deserve an apology. I hope today doctor Fauci will come clean, admit it was a mistake to fund dangerous research in China, Admit that the risk of this dangerous research exceeded any possible benefits as forgiveness.
00:12:01
Speaker 1: And Fauci will see your opening statement and raise you another and robes. When Fauci started talking, that was some talk that maybe ahead of time he wasn't going to answer questions and plead the fifth. We didn't know for sure. I don't know if rand Paul knew for sure. But his opening statement was short, sweet, to the point, let's get this over with.
00:12:21
Speaker 2: Yes, And I believe both of our jaws were collectively dropped when we heard him say this. Fauci said, I proved that I believe in and respect the value of legitimate congressional oversight. However, given Senator Paul's obvious obsession with calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments about me, and recently his publicly releasing my unredacted personal diary aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up in his words behind bars. The next bit it really gets good. Doctor Fauchi goes on to say, any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion. Therefore, although it pains me to do so, because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades long record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions.
00:13:34
Speaker 1: Thank you, unhinged obsession was well done. It's okay to add that he has been ro you could. I don't get it. These two men can't have a conversation, These two important men, two doctors can't have a conversation, and they haven't been able to for five years. Have gone at it in these committee rooms before ropes. Unhinged obsession is what it now feels like. So he's so the thing starts. They keep asking questions. He gives nothing but the exact same response over and over and over. And yet you keep.
00:14:06
Speaker 2: Seeing many senators grandstanding, making these wild accusations, pointing saying, look at the look at the people in the room. Can you turn and look at the people in the room. If you won't answer, can you stare these people in the face, like just all of this theater. It's I mean, it's entertaining, but it's just also disappointing.
00:14:28
Speaker 1: Well, the entertaining, you're not supposed to be entertained at a Senate committee hearing about a COVID pandemic that killed million people. But Rose, this was funny. He asked him, even after he said I'm going to evoke the fifth he asked them something about you do you see that blue folder on your He was just trying to direct him to something. Do you see that blue folder? I'm not going to answer that question based on advisor counsel. It was al He said, you won't even answer whether or not you see that thing, because roads when you open it up, if you answer one question, you're not allowed to pick and choose. So if you open it up and start answering questions, you have to answer questions. He has he cannot. He has to say so disciplined today and give only that response. And he is doing it so far.
00:15:10
Speaker 2: My goodness. And I mean you even said he must be bored, but I don't know. I don't think there's anything boring about what's been going on.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: And it got even more exciting ropes. They kicked somebody out. We couldn't tell who they were talking to, Ran Paul was. They had a wide shot of the room and he was going I thought it was somebody in the audience. That was a back and forth and you heard a faint voice, but he kept he ran Paul kept getting more animated and getting what's going on? And it turns out he was talking to Fauci's attorney.
00:15:39
Speaker 2: Yes, Fauchi's attorney. He did not like that Fauchi's attorney was there period. Also that he was sitting next to him and so, and they had his mic turned off, but you could tell the attorney was talking and it was making Ran Paul so crazy angry. He eventually kicks him out of the entire room and makes this huge speech just just just chastising this attorney.
00:16:02
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know who the attorney is, but he was funny to me. It was one of those things where he kept going back and forth so much. Grandpa's at them. One more word out of you, and I'm having security put you out. And the guy you he mouthed something okay, like sure got it, Like he still said another word. It was like something a child.
00:16:19
Speaker 2: Oh, it was like a parent to a child. That's exactly what we were witnessing.
00:16:23
Speaker 1: That was funny to me though.
00:16:24
Speaker 2: But yeah, he said, I mean all of this felt very an angry dad. Ram Paul is like, you know, you are not recognized. You are not recognized. You were told not to sit at the table. You insist on sitting at the table and we told you you would not be recognized. You are not invited here for testimonies. Sir, you are being disruptive. Would you behave this way in a courtroom? No, because the judge would put you in jail. I can't do that today, but I can have you escorted from the premises. You can see the attorney talking. You can't hear it because there's no microphone. And it made Ran Paul so angry. He finally just said security, please remove him from the room.
00:17:01
Speaker 1: I was cracking up and the attorney was making me uncomfortable. I was like, dude, please just just leave, just leave.
00:17:07
Speaker 2: Stop was not worth it.
00:17:09
Speaker 1: So it was tense and you got a witness it's not even answering questions, but you had this much uh drama in that room. But stay here. There was some drama beforehand. Yes, President Trump chimed in about Fauci. You'll want to hear this also. Yes, he got the chance to and he has the right to plead the fifth. However, there might still be some consequences to not answering the questions.
00:17:34
Speaker 2: Stay here, Welcome back everyone, as we have been watching and truly just I don't know, appalled, entertained, disappointed, shocked, I guess at watching what's going on on Capitol Hill right now. The committee that is that has called doctor Fauci to testify, and look, doctor, I would say, Senator, Senator doctor rand Paul clearly brought doctor Fauci here to to eviscerate him, yes, and to question him. And doctor Fauci decided to plead the fifth because he knows if he says anything that could be I don't know, construed is false, or if he in some way said the wrong time of day, even he could be held or he could be criminally prosecuted for perjury. He just has to be so careful with everything he would do.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: Boo, all right, Blumenthal from Connecticut was the one who he said it in his time turn to question. This is just a setup. You're setting him up and just go back to some of the McCarthy hearings. Even suggested that that all you're doing is getting him here and trying to get him to say something that you can then go prosecute him for. And so I said when it started, I said, man, you got some good lawyers, and that's good advice.
00:19:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And look, beforehand, before this hearing even started, the President President Trump weighed in on his true Social page and just flat out insulted. Is that the word insulted Fauci, But he had a lot to say.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: Very complimented himself. First, Ye, well, of.
00:19:26
Speaker 2: Course that's usually how the order in which things go. But yes, on his True Social Trump said, many more people died of COVID under the Biden administration than under the Trump administration. Operation Warp Speed was a spectacular success. In fact, many say one of the most successful things ever done by an American president. I over rode Fauci on this. His ideas were crazy. Also, I said from the beginning that the virus came from the Wuhan laboratory in China. Fauci strongly disagreed, always trying to protect China. I inherited Fauchi who was there since the nineteen eighties, but with each passing day relied less and less on him. He made too many bad calls, like on masks. Remember at the beginning he was an anti masker. He then switched to a supermasker. In any event, I didn't let him shut the country down, although he wanted to. I went the federalist way and let the governors decide. The Republican governors did a much better job than the Democrats. Fauci was largely taken out of play, and then along came sleepy Joe Biden, who made Fauci a king. I called Biden to tell him Fauchi was no good, either didn't have a clue or was dishonest, but the call was well received, but sadly not acted on. Biden went on to get Fauci vast destructive power. The rest is history.
00:20:42
Speaker 1: They've rewritten, completely rewritten history. He's hailed to the hero robes for what he did for this country, and they are The President of the United States is taking him down as he deserved that. You see the debate about masks. Republican governors were keeping our stuff open. We're not going to do what Fauci says, we're not going to do what Biden says, and it was that's all this was. And so to take this man down robes in this way, it's just that it's yeah, that's pretty low down.
00:21:10
Speaker 2: It truly is. And look, nim me kind of now understand. I think it was a little surprising that when Biden left office in his final hours, he granted all those pardons, and he among the preemptive pardons he passed out, one of them was to doctor Fauci, And at the time, I was just like, what I mean, I get it, but I was kind of surprised that he felt like that would be necessary. And sure enough, here we are today.
00:21:36
Speaker 1: They saw this day coming. It's no surprise. So that's why it was so important. You need to get him to commit perjury because that is a current something that's not covered by a pardon from whatever timeframe that they have during the during COVID. So yeah, yes, it was a smart move. Thank you, mister President Biden for that pardon. I don't know if he lobbied for it or if they just knew we need to take care of a guy. It's hard, broll. It's hard to convince. Don't you think it's hard to convince the country that that Faucci isn't is a villain, is a monster.
00:22:11
Speaker 2: If you wasn't helping, I would think it was. But if you watch the hearing today, and I'm sure you'll see plenty of excerpts from it on the news this evening, but if you didn't know any better, you would think, Wow, this guy must have been horrible. This guy is a monster. That's what it comes off as.
00:22:31
Speaker 1: Even if you didn't like what he did, if you lived somewhere like, oh they shut down my business, I'm losing business. Oh they shut down my school. My kid is being impacted. Do you still therefore, are you still taking it out on this one guy? As people want someone to blame, want some and Republicans are giving it to him.
00:22:47
Speaker 2: People want someone to blame. And yes, a lot of people lost their businesses and a lot of people lost their loved ones and their family members, and they're angry about it, and they want to say, see, if you had just been honest from the start, See, if you just had everyone mingle and get it over with, it would have been done and gone a lot. We wouldn't have been in this prolonged period of time where no one could interact and the world would shut down. You, doctor Fauci, it's all your fault. Yes, people want someone to blame, and so now we have a name and a face, and that's where people can channel and funnel their anger.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: Ah. Look, he's if as long as you get through the day Robes with just repeating that same answer, he should be at least legally fine, we thought, But Ran Paul added something at the end of his questioning Robes that suggests he's going to try to I don't know how you come after him for this, but he's setting something up to where it sounds as if and the way he put it, there will be repercussions for your refusal. He says it's against the law to obstruct an investigation of Congress. I don't know if there's something in there if they're going to get him for obstruction.
00:23:55
Speaker 2: Obstruction, even though it's your constitutional right to take the fifth if you feel like someone is asking you questions that could possibly result in charges, I'm confused. Yeah, he said the committee will have to consider what appropriate action should be taken against you.
00:24:12
Speaker 1: I don't know what he could, but given the unhinged obsession quote unquote, you could see Ran Paul seeing that through and doing something. So don't know what that could be. The last thing I want to mention is to everybody, please calm down. Can we pl No matter where we respect, where we are, people have lost loved ones. All of us have lost someone. We were all touched in some way by COVID. People lost a lot, We lost colleagues, we did. But Robes, no matter what that feeling is, we gotta and I just plucked out one. The debate is raging. Of course, Fauci's name has been trending number one, number two all week for the most part, Robes, but one just jumped out. I was just reading through stuff and some ry, I'm nice given his name out. But one commenter said, why isn't doctor Fauci hanging from a tree? Wow? Now there's a lot of stuff we can say, but that kind of stuff, why is that a part of our debate?
00:25:07
Speaker 2: It feels so awful. I wish people would recognize the weight of words, that words are weapons, and that I don't know why anyone would want to use words like that to describe someone who whether you like what he did or not, whether you liked his policies or not, he was there serving the public. He was there as a public servant. So to call for him to be hanging from a tree, that is mob mentality. It is unnecessarily violent and just that's despicable to put that down and to have the world read that.
00:25:46
Speaker 1: And I didn't go I promise you, I did not go looking for like, oh, let me find the worst one of some example. I didn't plan on adding an example at all, but I was reading through comments about Rope's first pag just constant. It's an onslaught of vitriol directed at this guy that I thought was wearing a cape.
00:26:07
Speaker 2: On some days he might need to wear a bulletproof vest.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: Now what was it today? They said? Did he say it that Bran Paul tried to have his security detail, faucy security detail taken from him? A guy who is getting constant death threats.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: And I'm sure after today, and given those comments you're reading in real time, yes they will likely be even more than they've been before. But yet to hear that he was getting death threats earlier, I was confused. Now, my god, I cannot imagine what it's like for him, just on a day to day experience, and certainly today in that Senate hearing, things have taken a turn for the worst. So we'll keep our eye on this situation, but just wanted to hop on and let you know what was going on in the halls of Congress today. I made me rowback alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Wednesday, July twenty ninth, and a fascinating hearing is happening on Capitol Hill as we speak. Doctor Anthony Fauci is being questioned about COVID, where it came from, and the country's response. He is getting peppered with questions, but he is only giving one answer, and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and Tuesday Robes. He's given the same answer over and over and over and over again. The hearing is going to keep going for a little while, and he is only going to give this response. Can you read it to the people. This is the answer that doctor Fauci is giving, has given, and it's the only one you're going to hear from him today.
00:00:51
Speaker 2: Based on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer, based upon my rights under the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution. Boom said, Yeah, you said he was being peppered with questions, and while that's true, I would go a step further in saying he's being peppered with absolute criminal accusations. Yes, and that is why he cannot and will not answer the questions, because he knew going into this that this was a bit of a witch hunt.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: They are setting him up and waiting for him to say anything that can haul his ass into the Justice Department. For holy hell, folks, this was supposed to be a huge day, expected fireworks. It was billed as the battle between the two doctors, doctor Ran Paul, the chairman of the City Committee, and doctor Anthony Fallacci Robes. I don't think. I guess we can remind people a little bit, but even if you're watching the news a little bit over the past five years, you know these two don't like each other.
00:01:54
Speaker 2: They do not like each other. And look, there are plenty of lawmakers and folks and people who believe that doctor Fauci is literally and criminally responsible for the COVID outbreak, for the pandemic, and they want him there to answer questions. He was subpoenaed by the Senate Homeland Security Committee and Governmental Affairs of which rand Paul is the chairman. But truly, yes, they brought him there to answer questions. But this was political theater. I mean, this is political theater, I have to say. Just watching it and even knowing that he's going to respond the same way, it's been remarkably dramatic.
00:02:35
Speaker 1: Crazy you're still on the edge of your seat, even though you know there's not going to be an answer to the question. They have taken advantage now Robe so many of these Republicans, mainly they are right now doing a little audition for tonight's cable news. Everybody is doing their things, yelling and screaming at him, hoping you get the call to get roped. It's all grand standing, it's all political theater. Now are there questions, legitimate ones about COVID, but we still should be asked because we still don't know exactly where COVID came from. There's not a consensus in the health community still, so that part is legit. But Robes this from the jump. Ran Paul has said how many times publicly he wants Fauci in prison.
00:03:16
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean as many times as you'll listen. He'll tell you that doctor Fauci should be behind bars period for his role in the COVID outbreak. You know, it's one of those things where we all saw doctor Fauci as somebody who was guiding us through, leading us through. And yes, what we knew about the pandemic changed and we were learning different things, and so a lot of folks point to the fact that he had different advice in the beginning. At first he said don't wear masks, and he said wear masks, and so then people started questioning his science and his credentials. But the truth is this was a pandemic the likes of which none of us in our lifetimes had seen before. And look, science is complex, and to your point, we still don't know the origins of the coronavirus that sent this world into a shut down, lockdown mode for several months.
00:04:15
Speaker 1: So there in line, you just hit on the two things herebes one he said, we still don't know where it came from. Well, Rand Paul believes he knows where it came from. He believes it came from a lab in Wuhan, China, where research was being going on that was funded in part by grant money that came from the National Institute's Health that doctor Fauci was a part of. So there you go, that's his connection. You funded the lab that unleashed this to the world. That's one point.
00:04:42
Speaker 2: Yes, And he says, because you funded the lab that unleashed this onto the world, you then are now lying and covering up the truth so that you don't get held responsible. So yes, he's accused of being a part of the problem or the lab that they claim created this byvirus. But then the bigger accusation I believe is that he's covering it up, that he's lying, that he's misleading the public to save his own ass.
00:05:08
Speaker 1: So that's rand Paul's theory. And then the other theory Robes, And I don't know how split it is the medical community if it's fifty to fifty, but there's no consensus either way. Did it come from a lapse and believe that, and others believe Robes. It did occur naturally in bats, and the bats transferred to some other animals who then some kind of way sub the transmission went to humans. That's the other theory, and a lot of solid doctors and groups believe that, and doctor Falci believed it as well.
00:05:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and we knows, and I say we meaning scientists, the scientific community knows that this is oftentimes how bird flu, avian flu, swine flew yes, and COVID nineteen. These types of viruses begin in animals and they can spread to humans, and some of these viruses can then mutate to spread from human to human. That is what has happened in our world's history. We've seen it happen and repeated and look in China, some of the practices that take place where people live with their animals, they sleep with their animals, they have these wet markets where they're around freshly like actually animals are slaughtered in these wet markets where people are and so all of this mingling is what creates some of these viruses that go on to do significant damage to the world's population.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: So that leads us to today, it's okay for us to debate this, figure it out, try to find evidence. But what's happened robes is that they are and I say they are rampoles leading the charge. But yes, many on the rights, many conservatives to point to h They were upset about schools being shut down, businesses being shut down. They were upset, and now they are robes. They made him out to be a killer villain.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: Today, I was just going to say that they have actually stood or not stood. They have sat there with their microphones and they have announced to the world that doctor Fauci has blood on his hands, that he is a murderer, that he is responsible for the deaths of so many people around the world. That's a that's a heavy and huge accusation.
00:07:18
Speaker 1: It is Robes and you you they're sprinkling in. He got to do uh what was it? A Vanity Fair article? He got to meet celebrities and he was impressed by them. He got to make some money, he was writing a book. And so they're throwing all this and they're actually saying this man lied to everybody and was okay with millions dying for the sake of him enriching himself. And they actually said that on Mike Robes. I'd try to be open to some things, but that's not reasonable to why can't we give this guy credit? Because from what I saw Robes, and we interviewed him plenty throughout the pandemic. I was shit how many times he kept showing up on television sets. He was out there doing everything he could. Roapes. He has a fifty year career of this stuff, and today he's reduced to You're a murderer who only wanted to get rich. That's a stretch for me, bag.
00:08:15
Speaker 2: It's a big stretch. And look, I know that people may have their opinions about how he handled it, but that man didn't sleep. We I mean truly, we interviewed him. I lost count how many times we sat down with him, and he took the time to explain what the best science was at that point, what they knew at that point, and look, whatever people want to think, I can tell you just from my perspective, and I am almost certain you share the same one. He was being genuine, he was being transparent, he was being authentic. He was giving us the best information he had at that time, and sometimes that information changed, sometimes the directives were amended because of new information that was being learned. But I never, for one moment, felt like I was being duped or that he was using the media to further his own agenda, or to spread lies or false falsehoods to cover up what may have happened. I do believe that, as a human and as a journalist, that his heart was.
00:09:16
Speaker 1: In the right playoff. He was doing the work of a doctor. It's hard to fly Rose, It's just it's hard to was there anything anybody? And I know what people feel about Governor Cuomo and everything that happened to him in leaving office for Robes, there were no two people that made me feel better then when Fauci stood up on TV and those daily updates from Governor Cuomo, because he sat there and he went through it methodically and calmly and gave you updates, and if it was bad, he said it was bad. And Fauci same thing, Robes. He tried to assure us, reassure us constantly. And I think it is sad what's happening today that they're taking this man down for the sake of some cultural war or to win in some way politically. They are tearing a man down who spent fifty years trying to save lives and now he's bro That's just that's not right.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: I agree, And when you see public displays like this, because I think we do need answers, and there are appropriate questions to ask doctor Fauci and others who were a part of trying to figure out the origins of this pandemic. We should be asking questions, but we don't need to be making threats and accusations against public servants. And that is what he has been. And I just have to think, what other doctor, what other intelligent, smart, learned person would want to put themselves in that position of public service if this is where it leads if things don't go the way people want them to. It actually, to me is so discouraging just to even raise your hand and be a part of the process, because if you make an enemy or someone doesn't like what you say, this is what you're subjected to.
00:11:07
Speaker 1: That was a Democratic senator who suggested exactly that. He says, he's going to make this difficult for good scientists to get into public service. You're making it difficult if we're going to treat people this way. But this thing started off, and sure enough, Ran Paul, the chairman of this committee, Wrotes. He started off, and we saw the direction things were going to go. But I thought it was I thought I was bold. I said, what the actual hell his opening statement he suggested or directed, almost demanded or expected Fauci to apologize and ask for forgiveness from the PUBLICA.
00:11:38
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, we actually you have an excerpt from his opening This is from doctor rand Paul. He said, frankly, the American people deserve an apology. I hope today doctor Fauci will come clean, admit it was a mistake to fund dangerous research in China, Admit that the risk of this dangerous research exceeded any possible benefits as forgiveness.
00:12:01
Speaker 1: And Fauci will see your opening statement and raise you another and robes. When Fauci started talking, that was some talk that maybe ahead of time he wasn't going to answer questions and plead the fifth. We didn't know for sure. I don't know if rand Paul knew for sure. But his opening statement was short, sweet, to the point, let's get this over with.
00:12:21
Speaker 2: Yes, And I believe both of our jaws were collectively dropped when we heard him say this. Fauci said, I proved that I believe in and respect the value of legitimate congressional oversight. However, given Senator Paul's obvious obsession with calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments about me, and recently his publicly releasing my unredacted personal diary aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up in his words behind bars. The next bit it really gets good. Doctor Fauchi goes on to say, any reasonable person who has followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion. Therefore, although it pains me to do so, because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades long record of cooperating with Congress, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment of the Constitution to refrain from answering your questions.
00:13:34
Speaker 1: Thank you, unhinged obsession was well done. It's okay to add that he has been ro you could. I don't get it. These two men can't have a conversation, These two important men, two doctors can't have a conversation, and they haven't been able to for five years. Have gone at it in these committee rooms before ropes. Unhinged obsession is what it now feels like. So he's so the thing starts. They keep asking questions. He gives nothing but the exact same response over and over and over. And yet you keep.
00:14:06
Speaker 2: Seeing many senators grandstanding, making these wild accusations, pointing saying, look at the look at the people in the room. Can you turn and look at the people in the room. If you won't answer, can you stare these people in the face, like just all of this theater. It's I mean, it's entertaining, but it's just also disappointing.
00:14:28
Speaker 1: Well, the entertaining, you're not supposed to be entertained at a Senate committee hearing about a COVID pandemic that killed million people. But Rose, this was funny. He asked him, even after he said I'm going to evoke the fifth he asked them something about you do you see that blue folder on your He was just trying to direct him to something. Do you see that blue folder? I'm not going to answer that question based on advisor counsel. It was al He said, you won't even answer whether or not you see that thing, because roads when you open it up, if you answer one question, you're not allowed to pick and choose. So if you open it up and start answering questions, you have to answer questions. He has he cannot. He has to say so disciplined today and give only that response. And he is doing it so far.
00:15:10
Speaker 2: My goodness. And I mean you even said he must be bored, but I don't know. I don't think there's anything boring about what's been going on.
00:15:18
Speaker 1: And it got even more exciting ropes. They kicked somebody out. We couldn't tell who they were talking to, Ran Paul was. They had a wide shot of the room and he was going I thought it was somebody in the audience. That was a back and forth and you heard a faint voice, but he kept he ran Paul kept getting more animated and getting what's going on? And it turns out he was talking to Fauci's attorney.
00:15:39
Speaker 2: Yes, Fauchi's attorney. He did not like that Fauchi's attorney was there period. Also that he was sitting next to him and so, and they had his mic turned off, but you could tell the attorney was talking and it was making Ran Paul so crazy angry. He eventually kicks him out of the entire room and makes this huge speech just just just chastising this attorney.
00:16:02
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know who the attorney is, but he was funny to me. It was one of those things where he kept going back and forth so much. Grandpa's at them. One more word out of you, and I'm having security put you out. And the guy you he mouthed something okay, like sure got it, Like he still said another word. It was like something a child.
00:16:19
Speaker 2: Oh, it was like a parent to a child. That's exactly what we were witnessing.
00:16:23
Speaker 1: That was funny to me though.
00:16:24
Speaker 2: But yeah, he said, I mean all of this felt very an angry dad. Ram Paul is like, you know, you are not recognized. You are not recognized. You were told not to sit at the table. You insist on sitting at the table and we told you you would not be recognized. You are not invited here for testimonies. Sir, you are being disruptive. Would you behave this way in a courtroom? No, because the judge would put you in jail. I can't do that today, but I can have you escorted from the premises. You can see the attorney talking. You can't hear it because there's no microphone. And it made Ran Paul so angry. He finally just said security, please remove him from the room.
00:17:01
Speaker 1: I was cracking up and the attorney was making me uncomfortable. I was like, dude, please just just leave, just leave.
00:17:07
Speaker 2: Stop was not worth it.
00:17:09
Speaker 1: So it was tense and you got a witness it's not even answering questions, but you had this much uh drama in that room. But stay here. There was some drama beforehand. Yes, President Trump chimed in about Fauci. You'll want to hear this also. Yes, he got the chance to and he has the right to plead the fifth. However, there might still be some consequences to not answering the questions.
00:17:34
Speaker 2: Stay here, Welcome back everyone, as we have been watching and truly just I don't know, appalled, entertained, disappointed, shocked, I guess at watching what's going on on Capitol Hill right now. The committee that is that has called doctor Fauci to testify, and look, doctor, I would say, Senator, Senator doctor rand Paul clearly brought doctor Fauci here to to eviscerate him, yes, and to question him. And doctor Fauci decided to plead the fifth because he knows if he says anything that could be I don't know, construed is false, or if he in some way said the wrong time of day, even he could be held or he could be criminally prosecuted for perjury. He just has to be so careful with everything he would do.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: Boo, all right, Blumenthal from Connecticut was the one who he said it in his time turn to question. This is just a setup. You're setting him up and just go back to some of the McCarthy hearings. Even suggested that that all you're doing is getting him here and trying to get him to say something that you can then go prosecute him for. And so I said when it started, I said, man, you got some good lawyers, and that's good advice.
00:19:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And look, beforehand, before this hearing even started, the President President Trump weighed in on his true Social page and just flat out insulted. Is that the word insulted Fauci, But he had a lot to say.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: Very complimented himself. First, Ye, well, of.
00:19:26
Speaker 2: Course that's usually how the order in which things go. But yes, on his True Social Trump said, many more people died of COVID under the Biden administration than under the Trump administration. Operation Warp Speed was a spectacular success. In fact, many say one of the most successful things ever done by an American president. I over rode Fauci on this. His ideas were crazy. Also, I said from the beginning that the virus came from the Wuhan laboratory in China. Fauci strongly disagreed, always trying to protect China. I inherited Fauchi who was there since the nineteen eighties, but with each passing day relied less and less on him. He made too many bad calls, like on masks. Remember at the beginning he was an anti masker. He then switched to a supermasker. In any event, I didn't let him shut the country down, although he wanted to. I went the federalist way and let the governors decide. The Republican governors did a much better job than the Democrats. Fauci was largely taken out of play, and then along came sleepy Joe Biden, who made Fauci a king. I called Biden to tell him Fauchi was no good, either didn't have a clue or was dishonest, but the call was well received, but sadly not acted on. Biden went on to get Fauci vast destructive power. The rest is history.
00:20:42
Speaker 1: They've rewritten, completely rewritten history. He's hailed to the hero robes for what he did for this country, and they are The President of the United States is taking him down as he deserved that. You see the debate about masks. Republican governors were keeping our stuff open. We're not going to do what Fauci says, we're not going to do what Biden says, and it was that's all this was. And so to take this man down robes in this way, it's just that it's yeah, that's pretty low down.
00:21:10
Speaker 2: It truly is. And look, nim me kind of now understand. I think it was a little surprising that when Biden left office in his final hours, he granted all those pardons, and he among the preemptive pardons he passed out, one of them was to doctor Fauci, And at the time, I was just like, what I mean, I get it, but I was kind of surprised that he felt like that would be necessary. And sure enough, here we are today.
00:21:36
Speaker 1: They saw this day coming. It's no surprise. So that's why it was so important. You need to get him to commit perjury because that is a current something that's not covered by a pardon from whatever timeframe that they have during the during COVID. So yeah, yes, it was a smart move. Thank you, mister President Biden for that pardon. I don't know if he lobbied for it or if they just knew we need to take care of a guy. It's hard, broll. It's hard to convince. Don't you think it's hard to convince the country that that Faucci isn't is a villain, is a monster.
00:22:11
Speaker 2: If you wasn't helping, I would think it was. But if you watch the hearing today, and I'm sure you'll see plenty of excerpts from it on the news this evening, but if you didn't know any better, you would think, Wow, this guy must have been horrible. This guy is a monster. That's what it comes off as.
00:22:31
Speaker 1: Even if you didn't like what he did, if you lived somewhere like, oh they shut down my business, I'm losing business. Oh they shut down my school. My kid is being impacted. Do you still therefore, are you still taking it out on this one guy? As people want someone to blame, want some and Republicans are giving it to him.
00:22:47
Speaker 2: People want someone to blame. And yes, a lot of people lost their businesses and a lot of people lost their loved ones and their family members, and they're angry about it, and they want to say, see, if you had just been honest from the start, See, if you just had everyone mingle and get it over with, it would have been done and gone a lot. We wouldn't have been in this prolonged period of time where no one could interact and the world would shut down. You, doctor Fauci, it's all your fault. Yes, people want someone to blame, and so now we have a name and a face, and that's where people can channel and funnel their anger.
00:23:23
Speaker 1: Ah. Look, he's if as long as you get through the day Robes with just repeating that same answer, he should be at least legally fine, we thought, But Ran Paul added something at the end of his questioning Robes that suggests he's going to try to I don't know how you come after him for this, but he's setting something up to where it sounds as if and the way he put it, there will be repercussions for your refusal. He says it's against the law to obstruct an investigation of Congress. I don't know if there's something in there if they're going to get him for obstruction.
00:23:55
Speaker 2: Obstruction, even though it's your constitutional right to take the fifth if you feel like someone is asking you questions that could possibly result in charges, I'm confused. Yeah, he said the committee will have to consider what appropriate action should be taken against you.
00:24:12
Speaker 1: I don't know what he could, but given the unhinged obsession quote unquote, you could see Ran Paul seeing that through and doing something. So don't know what that could be. The last thing I want to mention is to everybody, please calm down. Can we pl No matter where we respect, where we are, people have lost loved ones. All of us have lost someone. We were all touched in some way by COVID. People lost a lot, We lost colleagues, we did. But Robes, no matter what that feeling is, we gotta and I just plucked out one. The debate is raging. Of course, Fauci's name has been trending number one, number two all week for the most part, Robes, but one just jumped out. I was just reading through stuff and some ry, I'm nice given his name out. But one commenter said, why isn't doctor Fauci hanging from a tree? Wow? Now there's a lot of stuff we can say, but that kind of stuff, why is that a part of our debate?
00:25:07
Speaker 2: It feels so awful. I wish people would recognize the weight of words, that words are weapons, and that I don't know why anyone would want to use words like that to describe someone who whether you like what he did or not, whether you liked his policies or not, he was there serving the public. He was there as a public servant. So to call for him to be hanging from a tree, that is mob mentality. It is unnecessarily violent and just that's despicable to put that down and to have the world read that.
00:25:46
Speaker 1: And I didn't go I promise you, I did not go looking for like, oh, let me find the worst one of some example. I didn't plan on adding an example at all, but I was reading through comments about Rope's first pag just constant. It's an onslaught of vitriol directed at this guy that I thought was wearing a cape.
00:26:07
Speaker 2: On some days he might need to wear a bulletproof vest.
00:26:09
Speaker 1: Now what was it today? They said? Did he say it that Bran Paul tried to have his security detail, faucy security detail taken from him? A guy who is getting constant death threats.
00:26:20
Speaker 2: And I'm sure after today, and given those comments you're reading in real time, yes they will likely be even more than they've been before. But yet to hear that he was getting death threats earlier, I was confused. Now, my god, I cannot imagine what it's like for him, just on a day to day experience, and certainly today in that Senate hearing, things have taken a turn for the worst. So we'll keep our eye on this situation, but just wanted to hop on and let you know what was going on in the halls of Congress today. I made me rowback alongside TJ. Holmes. We'll talk to you soon.