Does anyone want to paint pottery at Color Me Mine? (S4 E7 "Time and Punishment")

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte? Welcome back to Are You a Charlotte? Today? Is part two of our conversation with Paget Brewster. She is so much fun. We're going to continue on with the episode Time and Punishment from season four. Let's discuss Miranda a little bit more, because this whole thing is a lot, you know, Miranda's storyline is a lot, and I had really forgotten about it, and I just feel it makes me love her so passionately. And I mean, obviously I love her anyway, but like the way that she's also like so, I mean, I'm on my side in the phone call, obviously, but also she's not wrong either, right, Like also she hasn't had her coffee, it's eight.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: In the morning.

00:00:53
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're being defensive, which is of course true, but it's also fun to me because Mariant is always defensive in a way, do you know what I mean? But for that particular reason, Charlotte's like I want to call her out on it, you know, But I also feel like it's like pent up because like they have been kind of rolling their eyes at Charlotte for a long time, you know, and for whatever reason, quitting the job makes Charlotte want to stand up and say, you know, you don't approve of my choices, which is all super fascinating, But I do think it would be like I can't even imagine one of my girlfriends being like I I want to be free to go to color me mine, Like, wait.

00:01:38
Speaker 2: You cannot imagine that. You cannot imagine that.

00:01:40
Speaker 1: No, I cannot imagine one of my friends saying that, No, I would be concerned about them if they said that, it would be weird. That's why I think, like I get Charlotte. I get. I mean, to the friends, I understand that having the baby and quitting the work is also kind of weird because she's not even pregnant or whatever, right, So like I get, you know, they kind of get. But then when when Jerale, it's like sometimes I just walk by Color my Mind and I think, like I just want to sit in there, and Carrie's like, well, if I saw it's me, But I kind of understand, like it's a it's a leap, Okay, it's a pretty big leap of like I work in the gallery in Soho, but I wish I was sitting in color me mine.

00:02:23
Speaker 2: But don't you feel like as a viewer, as a as an audience member, Because then Charlotte very very quickly goes to I'm going to cure eight I.

00:02:31
Speaker 1: Know, which is that she's just trying to impress them and get them off her back. That's the only reason.

00:02:37
Speaker 2: She's trying to support this idea of I'm going to stop working and now has to justify it to herself as much as to them, and I think they are. Charlotte only accepts her choice to me, it seems when she leaves the gallery early on her last day.

00:02:59
Speaker 1: I know, that's super interesting.

00:03:01
Speaker 2: Oh and she's like interesting, I'm and she everything about her feels content with that choice for the first time in the episode.

00:03:12
Speaker 1: That's true, for sure, that's true, for sure. I think it's also really funny. And I didn't remember this. I didn't remember that young girl. I didn't remember that. I like chop her head off before I go, because she's.

00:03:23
Speaker 2: You're twenty two, what do you know about anything? I know?

00:03:26
Speaker 1: And like random, like I know.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: But then she does say I'm sorry, I'm having a heart like she again, Charlotte, is that earnest? Yes, caring, but she's she's jealous of this young you know, Ya's Scilla. It's hard to let go of who she's been and what she loved.

00:03:47
Speaker 1: I mean, it's really hard and and I mean we were only in our thirties at this point right that we're playing these storylines. And if you think about that now and the young people and the kind of generational divide that we're going through about you know, how hard do you work or not work or all the different things that come up, it's super fascinating. And I feel like we were ahead of our time. And that's why they mean, that's why they mean that thing. There's a meme of when I go, like, you're twenty two, what do you know about life?

00:04:14
Speaker 2: Oh?

00:04:15
Speaker 1: I don't know that that lives And I think it's great. I didn't remember in what context I ever said it, right, I didn't see it coming in this one. But I totally understand too, because I do think she's I mean, I think that the thing when I really think about the whole through line of Charlotte, what we wanted to do with Trey, was that the idea of what she wanted was going to come true. The you know, picture perfect version of it, and she's trying so hard to make that work. It already hasn't really worked right, Like she's already kind of somewhat left him at the end of season three. Now it's back because he's able to have sex and whatnot and kind of making an effort. So she's really just trying to do this picture perfect version of what she believes she's supposed to do, and as we know, it's not gonna work out right. But that's how I see quitting this job because as we know, back in and just like that, she goes back to work, and it's great. This is what she wants to do, this is what she loves.

00:05:14
Speaker 2: But I understand why Charlotte's choice at that time is this makes sense to the future that we're going to have together. Yeah, and she needs to pay complete attention to Tray and the marriage and the home and the episode what episode are you doing? The when I do a light dimmer? I am doing, Charlotte. I remember the music. Wow. At some point Charlotte puts in when you guys redo the apartment?

00:05:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, oh my god, I hear the soundtrack.

00:05:51
Speaker 2: And Charlotte's so happy doing the dimming, dimming the lights, and then it's later and then Trey's like, you know what this room would be perfect for? And then you both like so, I don't remember what episode it's in.

00:06:03
Speaker 1: I remember that it's coming very soon. It's coming very soon. It's coming very soon. I forgot about that. I love to see these moments that people remember are obviously so joyful because I don't always remember them, but I'm glad that they lodged in your memory. Let's go back to Miranda for a minute. So I think that the whole like what I love about Miranda. And they don't really specifically say this, but like Miranda hurts her neck talking to me on the phone, which I didn't remember because I stress her out first thing in the morning, and then she has no one to take care of her, right, and in her mind, Carrie is her you know, call in emergencies, right, so she's like, get over here, you know. But then she's face down on the floor, like it's terrible. And I've hurt my back so many times. I've never called anybody to come help me. I just I just crawl. I crawl on the floor. Yeah, you can crawl when your back is hurt, you'd like roll over. I have like a whole process. Yeah, you don't have this issue.

00:06:59
Speaker 2: No, I've never had a back.

00:07:00
Speaker 1: Good good good good good. You're healthy, it's good. The heels, you know, don't help. Like when we were working sometimes I would I would wake up and I'd be like, oh, I can't walk today. Okay, where's the heating pad. You get the heat, you get the ice, you crawl, you do it a bunch of different things. I also threw my neck out doing a play in London one time and had to wear a neck brace and had to get her eye and everything totally, the whole thing, the whole thing. It was very hardcore. I also was very stupid and did the play again before I figured out how hard I was, because you know, how's an actor. You're just like, I don't miss work.

00:07:34
Speaker 2: Oh I'll suffer through it. I got it, rushing up, got a show, show goes.

00:07:37
Speaker 1: On right, all of it, all of it. So I did have a neck brace. It's hard, it's really hard. But with this I think it's so sweet how she's like Carrie, get over here, and she's not even really nice about it. She's like, you're my person. You know, and then Carrie of course has this meeting and so then Aiden goes and Aiden's like just a dream, like just a dream and just does it so beautiful? But then when Carrie comes back with the begels and Miranda's mad. I mean, that was all very fascinating to me. I didn't remember any of it. It's really interesting that like it's still not enough for Miranda that Carrie had sent Aiden, you know what I'm saying, Like, it's it's very interesting dynamic to me that Miranda's like you didn't come and now you brought these bullshit bagels, Like.

00:08:23
Speaker 2: Do you understand her point of view?

00:08:24
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:08:25
Speaker 2: I do, I do.

00:08:26
Speaker 1: I was just surprised by it. And also I do think and I'm not normally uh, I don't normally bring this up because it's kind of sometimes irritating, but you know the whole like Carrie's a narcissist situation online like like do you know about this?

00:08:40
Speaker 2: I do not know about online talk, but I will say Carrie can be a bad girlfriend and a bad friend.

00:08:48
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true.

00:08:49
Speaker 2: She can't.

00:08:50
Speaker 1: It's true. It's very true.

00:08:52
Speaker 2: As someone said, she's a clinical clinical narcissist or something I don't. I don't believe that people.

00:08:57
Speaker 1: I don't think that people, and I think that's true either. And what I do love is like, like, we have gotten to see these women enough in their lives to see the positives and the negatives of all of it, right, And those are real people and that's how real people are. And also because we hear Carrie's voice over, it already puts you in her mind. I think that's part of why people think that she's a narcissist, because we're not hearing everyone else's point of view in their mind, because obviously that would be crazy. I don't think they realized that, right, it's subconscious.

00:09:24
Speaker 2: Did you say that's yeah? Yet that's part where they're starting from. Yes, Well, but it's her column, it's her, that's the beginning of the it's her friends that Okay.

00:09:34
Speaker 1: She's our narrator, She's so.

00:09:36
Speaker 2: Is there some huge movement online that Carrie is A?

00:09:39
Speaker 1: Yes? Where?

00:09:42
Speaker 2: And does it matter WHOA?

00:09:45
Speaker 1: Does it matter? Probably it hurt?

00:09:47
Speaker 2: Does it hurt you?

00:09:51
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't want to say too much. Yes, we have discussions amongst ourselves about this.

00:09:56
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm sorry it sucks that it hurts anyway, I know, I know.

00:10:01
Speaker 1: I mean, look, this is when you're like too identified with the thing that you have made. You know, it's so hard. Like I had Lena wait on a couple times. I love her so much. She's super smart and wonderful, and she always says when she's here, like, you know what, we just make what we make, and it's not up to us how people are going to feel about it. And I'm like, yes, you have to say that to me every time you're hair because you feel so connected, right And luckily most people really just love it. But I think that with the Netflix revision of it all, you know, it's found a bunch of new audience because we're on Netflix now, which is of course wonderful. But there are a lot of people on TikTok and on Instagram where they cut together moments that kind of make it seem like she's not a good friend and whatever, and this seed would be one of them, right because she's like she starts talking about Aiden and then Miranda's like, you rob these bullshit donuts. You didn't even sorry magels, and you didn't even bring creepy cheese. And then she's like okay, okay, you know, and then she's trying to put it in the toe strum and then she's like and aiden da da dah, like she just leans right on in there, and it made me laugh. It made me laugh, you know, because I'm not in this particular conflict, right, So it's fine. I could look at it from both sides, and I can kind of see their point. But also I think that's unfair. And I also think it's why we kind of have generally boring characters on television right now. And I don't mean everybody obviously, right, but.

00:11:26
Speaker 2: If everyone has to be relatable and understandable and they're doing the right thing, what.

00:11:29
Speaker 1: Is the Show's the show?

00:11:32
Speaker 2: Right? I'm not watching that show?

00:11:34
Speaker 1: No, No, there nothing going on one hundred percent. And and people are very complicated that that's the joy, that's the joy of what we do.

00:11:43
Speaker 2: Of great storytelling.

00:11:44
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I think that a lot of the people who do make these these edits younger people, right, they're not They may not, you know, have enough experience to have seen as much as we've seen. I don't know, you know what I mean, I don't know.

00:12:09
Speaker 2: But the thing is, I guess I have to Then I wonder yeah, but they're talking about it. Yes, they're investing time. So it is fandom. Oh yeah, and I guess listen, I don't. I have been hurt in the past when I rejoined Criminal Minds and replaced the actor who is beloved and a great actor. When that person was let go and I came on, it was a year and a half of you should kill yourself threats and your parents should have aborted you, like the online and so I just stopped. I just stopped reading it because I thought, this isn't going to do me any good. I don't believe anyone's actually going to come to our home and kill me. Now, this is outrage online in social media from people at home and mostly you know, younger. It just was strange. Yeah, And so I stopped looking at it. And so for you to say that there's this whole thing of Carrie as a narcissist and it is upsetting to you and the other ladies and probably the writers and directors, that just makes me very very sad.

00:13:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, don't be too sad. I think we've been through a lot, right, and we kind of know like, oh, it's just this is a new phase. I mean, it's been going on for thirty years, right, like so many different versions of different people. Like in the beginning, people were like, who do those women think they are? You know, like every review, which was like a man in his fifties, you know, white man in his fifties were writing these reviews back in the day, right, They were like, who do these women think they are? We don't want to date any of them except maybe that brown haired one. And people would show these to me, it's like, look they like you, and I'd be like, that is so gross.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: That do you not understand?

00:14:00
Speaker 1: That is not anything you should ever show me? That is horrible? Okay, But that was the beginning, and you know, ever since, it's been so many different phases of it whatever. So this is it's something I just think. It's I think the hardest thing. We do care so much, obviously, we love our show, all the shows, all the versions of what we've been able to make. We love our fans obviously, and so when it enters a new phase, I think sometimes it can be strange because you feel misunderstood, right, and no one wants to feel misunderstood, But in the big wide world, you're never going to be understood by everyone.

00:14:36
Speaker 2: No or championed or adored or it's but and it is so so I don't even know. I don't remember who's the creator of this quote. The opposite of love is not hate, it's apathy. So if people are hate comes from.

00:14:57
Speaker 1: Some obsessional yes, yes, yes, And I wouldn't even really call it hate.

00:15:04
Speaker 2: It's not hate, it's outraged. They want to be part of the conversation.

00:15:08
Speaker 1: It's kind of fun in a way because you're making these edits, right. Like, the other thing that really cracks me up is that there's this whole thing about like, show me your your favorite horror movie or scene and they cut to carry at the door big with all the different like with the whip.

00:15:25
Speaker 2: And the pizza and the candy stripers, all.

00:15:29
Speaker 1: The things, And I mean, it makes me laugh, you.

00:15:31
Speaker 2: Know, it's kind funny. It's stupid.

00:15:33
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to hurt her feelings, but it does make me laugh. It doesn't it's not a horror movie.

00:15:39
Speaker 2: What's funny about it is no one actually thinks that's a horror movie, right, I feel like that is celebratory. Okay, good, yeah, But let me ask you something, Yes, ask me a few minutes ago, I can't remember. You said. Also, you feel like Sex and the City is not ended, that there is a a A few Sure, this is how I feel. More stories to be told.

00:16:02
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is how I feel. But I always pat you do. I'm glad you agree. I'm glad you agreed.

00:16:09
Speaker 2: If it's successful and people are talking about it, then there's money for advertisers to make. Oh listen, somebody will. I'm there's no way. There's no way. It's original material, right I intellectual property? Yes? Yes, yes? Are they rebooting? Like leave it to beaver?

00:16:25
Speaker 1: Like?

00:16:25
Speaker 2: Are they rebooting everything? You know what I mean? They're rebooting. Our show is a reboot. Everything is whoa? Why would it not be Sex and Listity? Why not?

00:16:34
Speaker 1: Well? I think a couple things, and I haven't talked to anyone lately about it, So I need to say that I have not talked to Michael Patrick about this lately. I've not talked to Sara Jeska about this lately, right, So I just need to be fair about that. So, first of all, we didn't know that we were going to end right this time? Oh yeah, right now. We thought we've ended so many times, right, like, so there's that as well, because we really did think we were going to end, and then we really thought that the movie was the end, but then we thought were gonna two more movies, but then we didn't. You know, We've had so many like thinking we're going to end and crying and then we didn't end, and you know what I'm saying, so many versions of it. Right in my mind, I really thought that we were going to do another season. And the reason that I thought we were going to do another season was that we were getting so much talk, right, I knew it wasn't all positive. I'm not super Pollyanna, And because I'm doing this podcast, I'm more aware of things being said than I would normally be because I'm trying to kind of monitor things and repost them and whatever. So my feed is showing them to me as it does. But so I was a little more aware than I normally would be. And of course it's confusing and hard, but I also knew in a way, I mean, we kind of were naive, or I should just speak for myself, I was kind of the naive that we could just pick back up with our you know, fifty whatever we were ourselves at the time that we started, and just like that, and that the group of fans that wanted to come would come, Right. I didn't understand that there would be a bunch of people that would want to come and hate us at the same time. Right, Like, the hate watch situation is like kind of a new phenomenon, or at least the fact that we're so aware of it is a new thing, right or whatever. I don't know how new it is. People really hate, yeah, they really confuse it. They like hate it, yes, but they watch it.

00:18:22
Speaker 2: They watch it.

00:18:23
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so confusing, right, They watch it and then they complain about all the things they hate, and then they all get together about it online. Do you know what I'm saying?

00:18:32
Speaker 2: So these are people looking for community, a community of like minded people who want to complain. Yes, I understand. There you can always you can criticize any show if you choose to, If you decide to, you could take the greatest movie ever made and tear it apart seen by seeing it, if you choose to, because everything is subjective and if you look at it in a different way. But hate Watching again, I don't think they hate it. I think there has to be a part of them. Why choose that show? Why choose that community of people to befriend in social media? If you're like I want to be, I want to hang out with the people that are saying you shouldn't have done this without Samantha. What's positive about that? What is the point in that if you don't like it, they don't want to do it then? But so then it's then what they're choosing is outrage and anger and complaint.

00:19:33
Speaker 1: Well I do have a theory on that though. What I think about that is that our world is a wreck. Right, So our world is a wreck, and I know a lot of people are online talking about that as well, Right, but I think it's a safer thing to be upset about a show. Oh do what I'm saying? So do? And I think that a lot of them are committed long term fans, right, So, Like one of the things that they would say that would really bug me is they would say, you guys don't know these characters. We know them better than you.

00:20:02
Speaker 2: That's okay, Yeah, yeah, I listen, there are there are fans that there are fans.

00:20:08
Speaker 1: That feel that way, that feel that way. Yes, it's hard, it's hard. Yeah, I don't really think that's true, right, I just think that. Yeah. I also think that what we were doing was slightly insane. We were lucky that we were able to do it because we were trying to make a different show. There would be people who would say, like, why isn't it more like the other show. We were really trying not to be like the other show, right.

00:20:33
Speaker 2: But you can't be the other show, right, so why try? Right?

00:20:37
Speaker 1: But we are the same characters, So I get that it's confusing.

00:20:40
Speaker 2: But time has passed, the world has changed the way, so much has changed.

00:20:44
Speaker 1: This paget coming right for our show. Back to whether we're done or not, I in my gut, I don't feel that we're done because for me, it's a vibrant, living thing, right like so too, you know. And also we're all friends, so like our relationships go on whether we're on the air or not on the air, right, Like, it's sometimes even hard for me, Like when you're on the air, we get spend a lot more time together, which is great, but the rest of the time we're still in communication. We're still going through life together, which is wonderful. And I also feel just fundamentally life does not end because you turn sixty.

00:21:34
Speaker 2: Oh, I agree. This is why I think you're right that it's not over, because you also are talking about this show has appealed to women in every generation and found new watchers in their twenties on Netflix. That's what happened with Criminal Minds. That's why Paramount Plus took us off Netflix, put us on Paramount Plus only, and started making new episodes because fifteen to twenty seven year old, mostly women, we're suddenly watching this show that started in two thousand and three.

00:22:09
Speaker 1: Amazing.

00:22:11
Speaker 2: So if it appeals to all age ranges, especially in our world now where women are starting to not out earn men, but consistently earn more in the household. Right, so there's like five billionaires and then every woman again billionaire guys. And if people are writing all this stuff, narcissism carries narcissism or putting together, taping together, you know, splicing together films, that's an invested audience, and an invested audience represents dollar signs to companies that make shows. So I completely agree with you that it is not over, right, But why would it be over it? Does it make sense?

00:23:00
Speaker 1: It doesn't need to be over But I do think that The important thing is that I don't write it right and Michael Patrick does and Michael Patrick needs to feel the inspiration of what we need to be and I can't push that, and I can't take that for granted, you know what I'm saying, And we respect him and his process, and you know, I just in my gut, I just we didn't. I don't think we ended in a way where we thought we were ending, you know, like with intention, Like I don't even think he knew for sure that we were ending. And then you know what I'm saying, it's it was a little messy. It's a little messy, and.

00:23:38
Speaker 2: He must have been extremely hurt, extremely hurt.

00:23:41
Speaker 1: You know. I don't think he'd say that.

00:23:44
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I don't know. I've never met.

00:23:46
Speaker 1: I don't think he'd say that. But I think I just think the whole thing was kind of a surprise in a weird way, like our world this is whacked out right now, you know. So it was interesting from that perspective. But the thing that that you know, for me, like when you were talking about doing your show and how you're happy there and you're safe there, like that's how we feel, That's how I feel like I anytime I work that's not with them. Like it's not that it's not fun, it's great, but.

00:24:17
Speaker 2: It's like very different.

00:24:18
Speaker 1: It's so different, and I miss them.

00:24:20
Speaker 2: It's not your little band of Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it.

00:24:25
Speaker 1: Like it's such a just incredibly special gift to get that as an actor, where you have this long term relationship of you know, players that you love so much. Like our editor edited our entire show edits the comeback from Michael Patrick and I saw him. His name is also Michael. I just said them that I'm like, oh I had like you had all of us. Can you imagine? That's like what a genius you know, Like what an incredible guy. Michael Brenbaum, Like, you know, just those people that you have the relationships with. It's so so special in the industry or.

00:24:58
Speaker 2: Lucky to ever get it. And once you have it, you don't want to live back out in the cool No, no.

00:25:05
Speaker 1: It's scary out there. But you know it's also like you just need people who know you and understand you and respect that you might be sixty one years old and you need some light Like you can't be I'm sixty one years old. You are I am. Oh my god, that's what my driver's license tells me.

00:25:26
Speaker 2: Okay, don't go gray because you look exactly the same. It's actually upsetting.

00:25:30
Speaker 1: It's actually sweet. You're so sweet, but look at your gray. If I could look like you, I would totally go gray. That is so incredible.

00:25:38
Speaker 2: It's not worth the pain. I mean.

00:25:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, the short hair scares the shit out of me. Okay, so I'm with you with that fun but I don't want to do that.

00:25:45
Speaker 2: I don't want to like constantly hike and have short hair.

00:25:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, if I could do that, Oh my good.

00:25:50
Speaker 2: It takes too long. It takes too long because I see your hair and I'm so jealous.

00:25:54
Speaker 1: Like now I start thinking, but I have to sit in that salon. Let me tell you, I can't stand they know me. Well, yeah, luckily, I love my hair. Watch well, you can't sit and watch sex in the city, no, put yeah, joy.

00:26:10
Speaker 2: Actually blowing your hair? Oh, I just got earbuds maybe yeah, yeah, because I'm all, I'm fifty seven and I'm like, oh, earbuds. So they're noise canceling. Yeah, it's good.

00:26:20
Speaker 1: It's good that way. It's important.

00:26:23
Speaker 2: You are a joy.

00:26:24
Speaker 1: Thank you too much. Oh, I have a question. I have a question. Are you a Charlotte Paget.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: I think I'm definitely part Charlotte. I would say I'm a I'm a Charlotte Miranda love it mashup, yeah, But one of one of the things that Charlotte says that resonates with me constantly all the time now that I'm married. I got married when I was forty five. The husband and my husband's great love it. But at one but I don't remember where it was, someone says to Charlotte, is your marriage happy or are you happy? And you're talking about Harry and you say every day, not all day, right day, but every day, And that is how how I feel. And it is a great joy joy.

00:27:05
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that is so good. I'm so happy for you that that's true. That's really really nice. And thank you for joining us. You have so much knowledge. Oh I love it.

00:27:17
Speaker 2: It's so great meeting you. Oh you marvelous. And I really appreciate all of your work. And I want to see more.

00:27:24
Speaker 1: I want to see of you. I've got to go catch up on this here show. Now I see you being the boss. I want to see you being the boss lady with the great hair. I'm super supportive.

00:27:35
Speaker 2: Thank you, you're well. Thank you so much.

00:27:38
Speaker 1: All right, great, have a great day you too. Thank you for joining us.