Sept. 8, 2026
Debate Rages After Mom Of 5-Year-Old Convicted For Letting Son Walk 1/2 Mile Alone
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RSS Feed On its face, it sounds horrific: a mom allows her five-year-old son to walk alone to a neighborhood pond, a half mile away. That mom is Karyann Parkinson and she’s speaking out after being convicted of contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Parkinson is also now on a state abuse registry for the next seven years. The mom of five says she had just walked to the pond six times with her son that day, in their gated community, complete with security guards. It was one of those guards who escorted the boy home, and ultimately called police. Debate is now raging online among parents, how young is too young to walk alone, and what is the role of the state when it comes to making parenting decisions?
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, September 8th, and a mom has been convicted for letting her five-year-old child walk alone in the neighborhood. Let the parental judgment begin. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Okay, here we go. Parents, what you got to say? On the surface, Robes, this sounds like something most parents would do. Let my five-year-old walk a half a mile away to a pond.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't let my five-year-old walk half a block away.
00:00:39
Speaker 1: Okay, so there are more circumstances here. So tell me the location of this one again.
00:00:43
Speaker 2: This is in Virginia, and it's specifically in a gated community in Williamsburg, Virginia, a beautiful part of the country, by the way.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: Okay, so the fact is that there is a mother who has been convicted. Robes, what's the actual charge?
00:00:58
Speaker 2: The actual charge is contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
00:01:01
Speaker 1: Yes, because she let her five-year-old walk half a mile to a pond... She was reported for this. The cops showed up. She had to go to a little trial. She was convicted. Now, she's not going to jail. She got a six month sentence, we should say, but it was suspended. But still, Robes, this has set people off. And you're in one of two camps. You're in on her side. Parent how you want to. Or are you on the side maybe of the cops who did the right thing and say, lady, are you out of your mind? Let this five year old walk.
00:01:35
Speaker 2: Look, and I think whatever you're thinking right now may change or evolve when you get the details. Because, by the way, this mom is alsoâ it' s less about the conviction and the six-month suspended sentence. She is now on the Virginia Child Abuse and Neglect Registry for seven years, which meansâ She cannot volunteer in her son's classroom until he is in the sixth grade. She can't do anything related to the school or any formal activity with her child because, yes, she is now a registered child abuser.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Okay, that's heavy. If you tell a mom, and this is a mom of four or five.
00:02:15
Speaker 2: I believe she's a mom of five.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Okay, and you see their family, folks. This is a woman who clearly looks engaged with this family.
00:02:21
Speaker 2: She was eight months pregnant at the time, and that plays into this as well. Okay, so not that she was claiming she was out of her mind. She was tired. So this mom, her name is, by the way, her name is Carrie Ann Parkinson. She was eight months pregnant. She claims, and by the way, she is speaking out. She is telling her story, so all of this comes directly from her. But she says they had walked down that same street together hundreds of times, including six times that morning. She said her son, five-year-old Sam, is kind of obsessed with goose feathers. He likes to collect them. They live in a gated community together. in Williamsburg, Virginia, complete with security guards. So this is a very protected community, okay? So she had walked, she said he knows the path. She was like, I understand a mom, a parent might see a headline that I let my child walk to a pond by himself. She was like, I understand why that would cause alarm. It's not what happened. He just went on the path to the pond. The feathers are near it, but he had been on it six times already, even that morning. Okay. So she says he wanted to go back again. She was like, I'm eight months pregnant. I want to get lunch started. And she was tired, so she gave him permission to go. She said, you can go there, collect some feathers, and come right back. So a neighbor sees a little five-year-old boy walking by himself in the neighborhood near a pond.
00:03:49
Speaker 1: Which would cause some alarm.
00:03:51
Speaker 2: Yes. I think anyone, I do believe this, most people, neighbors would either call police, go to the child, or what she did was notify the security guard.
00:04:01
Speaker 1: And probably what you do is just go, hey, little man, what you doing out here?
00:04:05
Speaker 2: Are you good? Yes. Where's your mom? Where do you live? And then I would walk him back. The security guard ended up doing that, escorting this little boy back to the home. Now, according to the mom, Carrie Ann... He said to her, we don't permit children to be out in the neighborhood alone. He was a little bit upset with her. She responded back to him. Is that an HOA bylaw, a homeowners association bylaw? Because I really don't think that's the rules. And the guard responded to her, well, if it's not against the rules, it's against the law, and I'm going to call the police.
00:04:41
Speaker 1: Okay. This sounds where everything went sideways. Exactly.
00:04:44
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: And this was completely unnecessary, and conviction shouldn't be there, and then cops never should have been called. If some rent-a-cop.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: Got an attitudeâ He didn't like how she spoke to him.
00:04:53
Speaker 1: He didn't like it. I have to work in this neighborhood with all you privileged a-holes.
00:04:58
Speaker 2: Karens.
00:04:59
Speaker 1: And now you've got this going on, and you're going to give me lip? I don't know if that's what happens. And I don't know. Rose, I'm just saying and joking here. I have no idea about this guy, so I'm not casting any aspersions. But I'm saying you could see that possibly.
00:05:11
Speaker 2: Yes. And when she described that conversation, I thought, I'm sorry. You got upset that someone was telling you how to parent. You reacted. He reacted. It escalated. Police get called. Child Protective Services respond. They went and checked it out. And then they decided two weeks later to charge her. with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. By the way, she could have pleaded out the no-low charge, but she refused to do so because she felt like that was her admitting guilt, and she didn't think she had done anything wrong. So she refused to plead out, and she was convicted. Now, here are some interesting facts about Carrie Ann Parkinson and her family. So as I mentioned, she had been eight months pregnant with her fifth child at the time of the incident. This is a woman who has her bachelor's degree in family science. Mm-hmm. She just got her law degree from William & Mary in May, and she was studying for the bar when all of this happened. So maybe you can understand her reaction to the legality of it all. Like she was maybe even feeling her right as a parent, especially given her education, to do as she chose with her own child. Your reaction to that?
00:06:23
Speaker 1: I always say this, Ro, just never the crime is the cover-up. Just in that moment, two people can't realize or recognize what was going on. And to just respect each other a little bit. To not see each other as bad people. Robes. Like, oh, I didn't know. What actually happened is we let him, he's on this path a lot, and I just let him walk. If that's an issue where you think I shouldn't do that anymore, I can assure you, I can just make sure this never happens again. And could have left it. And he could have heard that and just understood, like, okay, but come on now. He's little, and it's going to alarm some people in the neighborhood, so let's just make sure this doesn't happen again. Robes, this is not hard stuff. Everything escalates with us. Robes, you read that to me, and I hear ego. Ego crushes us so much in life. Robes, all this... Because two people, two adults, grown folks just couldn't look at each other and come to... You offended me by asking about my parenting, and you offended me now by questioning my authority to tell you what to do with your kid in this neighborhood. This is my neighborhood. I run this. You don't. That stuff, baby.
00:07:32
Speaker 2: That stuff, agreed, escalated it, but then police and prosecutors chose to pursue the charges, which is part of the debate here. She claims.
00:07:41
Speaker 1: Never should have been called.
00:07:42
Speaker 2: Right? Exactly. But once they got involved, where is the law? And that is a question right now because there are some rules in Virginia and several other states that would seem to give parents leniency when it comes to making choices about their children. She claims that she allowed her son to do this half-mile walk because she and her husband believe it's important for kids to, quote, encounter reasonable risks... And she added, And by the way, that is a one-mile round-trip walk at five years old. I believe he is in kindergarten. Mm-hmm. I know for me personally, and I don't care if it's a New York City street or a gated community. My parents live in one. I would be so worried about other people, all the possibilities. Maybe if I didn't even worry about my son, I would worry about how other people might react to my son. And does my son at five have enough life experience to know how to handle a stranger coming up to him, a car pulling up to him? And even if you think your son knows how to handle it, Does he really? Does he have life experiences? Okay.
00:09:06
Speaker 1: I would say no.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: Same.
00:09:08
Speaker 1: There is no way I would allow this. There is no way I've ever let a five-year-old just walk out on his or her. That's me. I defer to this parent. Knock yourself out. I have no criticism of this woman. I don't know this path. I don't know how often they've done it. I don't know how often he's maybe done this a couple times on his own before or a little bit on his own. Robes, didn't they describe as well that the path he was on There was like a 10-foot gap between that path and the street. So it's not like he's walking on a sidewalk very close to a street. I have a woman who's got five kids who are all alive and healthy. I will defer to her knowing what she's doing. Knock yourself out. I wouldn't do it, and that should be the end of it. There is no criticism. I don't have any hooting and hollering and screaming. How dare you? Nope, not at all. My criticism comes from those two who can't work this out, and the cops need to get called.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: I know, and the... interesting thing is, I mentioned this earlier, Virginia is one of 13 states with what they call a reasonable independence law. And that's supposed to prevent the state from second guessing a parent's decision.
00:10:12
Speaker 1: Isn't that exactly- Yeah.
00:10:14
Speaker 2: But doesn't this case seem like it would be exactly the reason why there's a reasonable independence law on the books in this state?
00:10:22
Speaker 1: Okay, but that's the thing. I say vague. Reasonable is a... That's true. Who's it reasonable to?
00:10:26
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:10:27
Speaker 1: That's just some vague language about still who gets to determine that you had a reasonable right to do what you did and what the child was doing was a reasonable risk.
00:10:38
Speaker 2: That is the law in which they will be appealing this decision, but I want to now... When we come back, get into the massive online debate that this story has caused. And one headline, I will tease it to you like this. Mom lands on abuse registry for letting her kid take a walk. Meanwhile, Lindsay Clancy could walk for killing her kids. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. We left you with that headline, and it was one of many as people react to hearing word that Carrie Ann Parkinson is now on an abuse registry for the next seven years in the state of Virginia, a mom of five, because she allowed her five-year-old son to walk half a mile towards a pond to collect some goose feathers, something he loves to do. So, yes, I was actually surprised. Most people, from what I gathered, are 100% on the side of this mom.
00:11:44
Speaker 1: Because they're parents. How dare you tell me anything? I know what my kid is capable of. I know what my kid can do, can't do. Yeah, my kid is more advanced than yours. All kinds of stuff.
00:11:54
Speaker 2: Kids are different. Yeah, and the interesting thing is this isn't a case of a mom who was negligent, who was looking the other way, who was distracted by her other kids. Right. who fell asleep, who is under the influence of some sort of substance.
00:12:06
Speaker 1: No.
00:12:06
Speaker 2: She is a working mom who actually has a very good command of the law, having just graduated from law school, and made a deliberate choice to give her son this responsibility. Do parents have the right to determine what age a child is capable of doing something independent of them? No.
00:12:27
Speaker 1: According to this, no. I mean, somebody at some point is going to make, there's not a hard number, but maybe more people would generally agree. Three is too young. Maybe some would go, okay, four is pushing it. Some would say five, that's too close. Some would, I mean, who's to say what too young is? And what you can allow your kid to do that nobody else in those two cop cars or some judge has any idea about your kid.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember you and I having this conversation because my daughters are, what, 10 years older than Sabine and counting. So you've asked, like, Is it too young to let Sabine stay in the house alone when she was, I believe, 10? Is it too young to let Sabine walk from apartment to apartment? At what age is that okay? Look, we all have these questions and we all want the best for our kids. And look, this woman, I think this is very interesting. She claims that the only reason why her son was scared was because the security guard said to him, there are scary adults out here. You should never be alone. You don't know what someone else could do to you. And put this idea in his head that adults are scary and bad things can happen to you. And she said that was the most traumatizing part of the entire experience for her son is what the security guard said to him.
00:13:47
Speaker 1: Maybe he's not a parent. I'm serious.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Right?
00:13:50
Speaker 1: There's something that a man, woman, there is a way that a parent approaches a helpless kid or somebody they think needs help. That's just the way you do it, and that's not how you do it. What are you doing out here? Somebody going to snatch you up?
00:14:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what basically happened.
00:14:03
Speaker 1: Hey, little guy, you okay? What are you doing out here? Okay, let me just get you back to your mom. We'll work it out. That's how you talk to a kid.
00:14:08
Speaker 2: Yes, apparently that's not what happened. And look, listen to some of these comments. I want to get your reaction. Stupid, rich, paranoid Karens, pretentious homeowners associations, I guess paying for 24-hour security. three golf courses and club amenities also alleviates these types of communities from any responsibility or inconvenience associated with knowing your neighbors or caring about them personally.
00:14:32
Speaker 1: You knew it was going to piss me off. Yeah.
00:14:35
Speaker 2: But their point is like, you've got this pretentious community and they don't even care enough about each other. They don't know each other enough to go and talk to her mother to mother or neighbor to neighbor and say, I saw your kid out here. No involved police involved security guards. disassociate yourself from any actual human interaction with this family and just judge them.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: But that's, yeah.
00:14:55
Speaker 2: And now they're being judged. Exactly.
00:14:57
Speaker 1: Just judge, judge, judge, judge, judge. We just don't know. Why can't we have robes? Why can't we start with this? This is just a decent lady. The security guard's a decent dude. The neighbor who called's a decent person.
00:15:10
Speaker 2: They all had the best of intentions.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: Let's just assume that. And you know, as adults often do. Egos and pride and all kinds of stuff gets in the way. And we make mistakes. We mess up. Everybody messed up. Is anyone making the argument, Robes, that the right thing was done here? That this child was, continues to be in danger by having her as a parent? Is anybody saying that? No.
00:15:35
Speaker 2: Exactly. And I think you'll like this next comment. Don't love this in cities. But this, and this is where people get political, this leftist BS, where it is a criminal offense to let your kids go outside. As a cop, I am ashamed of this outcome. This is simply the direction the world is going in.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: Different kids, different, yes, different maturity, but also different geographical locations. Rose, the type of stuff I used to do when I was a kid in Terrell, Arkansas, with my granddaddy. I assure you.
00:16:06
Speaker 2: We didn't wear seatbelts, for God's sakes.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: I was on the back of motorcycles with my uncles. I drove a car when I couldn't even reach.
00:16:13
Speaker 2: Back of pickup trucks, driving around.
00:16:15
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter. Oh, yeah, that thing.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Taking our bikes, my brother and I, all over the neighborhood.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: It's not safe. We get it. It's different. But there are different dangers for a kid walking around in West Helena, Arkansas, in the backyards, than there are for a kid walking up the Upper West Side in New York. It's different. I wouldn't think anything of it. Rose, how many times have we seen little kids walking up and down the street on a country road somewhere? I never stopped to think anything.
00:16:46
Speaker 2: It's just what it is. I guess it startled the neighbor. Yes, it did. Look, you go over to other countries. I'll never forget when I went to Tanzania, and I saw what looked like a six-, seven-year-old little girl literally leading a herd of cattle on her own with a staff, and she had a big old smile on her face and was so confident and knew exactly what she was doing. But look, there have been a couple cases here in this. I wanted to remind you. I think you'll remember the one in Maryland in 2015. where the parents were eventually cleared, but they were facing criminal neglect charges because they let their kids ages 10 and 6 walk home alone from a park. Neighbors called, police got involved, and that was a huge story back then.
00:17:26
Speaker 1: Is that the whole helicopter parent debate.
00:17:27
Speaker 2: That started right now? Yes, yes, but this is recent. Georgia, Fulton County. claims of neglect and abuse after a couple allowed their six-year-old to scoot her home from a playground a quarter mile away. They had charges against them. They were eventually dropped on appeal. And in Texas, a mother actually spent the night in jail. She had to resign from her job after she was convicted for endangering her child because she made her eight-year-old walk a half a mile home to calm down. Look, I believe, maybe I'm forgetting this, eight. But, like, I feel like I could see, like, get out of the car. You're being obnoxious. Walk the rest of the way home. I think my dad threatened to make me walk the rest of the way home sometimes. Like, that's absolutely. I laugh because I remember, I think, being threatened with that as a kid.
00:18:15
Speaker 1: You might not have seen the video. Former NFL player not too long ago.
00:18:18
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:18:19
Speaker 1: It was 2 in the morning, and he had his kid out running.
00:18:22
Speaker 2: Running.
00:18:23
Speaker 1: As a punishment or training or whatever.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: And people were going off on him. And some people were thanking him.
00:18:28
Speaker 1: Props to each his and her own. Parenting is just not something you touch. I am not criticizing anybody for what they think is right for their kid. Maybe it's not what I would do. Fine. And I have my reasons. You might have your reasons for letting the kid do it. The debate has sparked. It escalated.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: Yes. Unnecessarily so. And I do not believe that she should be on a child... abuse registry for the next seven years, limiting her ability to be a PTA parent.
00:18:58
Speaker 1: Think of the other people who were probably on that registry and what they did. Some would go, oh, that's nice of her to allow the kid something he really wanted to do. She couldn't make it and still find a way. I wonder if he'd done it before, like on his own.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: It's possible. It's possible. And look, you know, this is a debate that will continue. People think they know best. But when the law gets evolved, the state gets evolved, Now it's a legal issue and she is appealing it. We will see because we have seen in other cases similar to this that those appeals have been won. So she may have a, and look, with her recent law degree, she may be able to even represent herself.
00:19:35
Speaker 1: But is it also fair to, I mean, when police show up, prosecutors get involved, you have a victim. And aren't they supposed to be looking out first and foremost for this five-year-old that they believe was in danger?
00:19:47
Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
00:19:49
Speaker 1: That's the argument. so what's the age baby oh for me no no for this case like how do we do this.
00:19:57
Speaker 2: Every kid's different like and that's her point.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: No but the security guard at what point would he not call the cops okay You're six, you're good. Seven, I'm okay with that.
00:20:07
Speaker 2: Eight, okay.
00:20:08
Speaker 1: Like, is it up to him to determine? This is what it sounds like. He gets to determine whether or not your parenting warrants him calling the cops. Don't piss him off.
00:20:21
Speaker 2: Well, this debate is absolutely going to continue. We will follow any new developments. We always appreciate you listening to us, everybody. I'm Amy Robach, alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Tuesday, September 8th, and a mom has been convicted for letting her five-year-old child walk alone in the neighborhood. Let the parental judgment begin. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Okay, here we go. Parents, what you got to say? On the surface, Robes, this sounds like something most parents would do. Let my five-year-old walk a half a mile away to a pond.
00:00:36
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't let my five-year-old walk half a block away.
00:00:39
Speaker 1: Okay, so there are more circumstances here. So tell me the location of this one again.
00:00:43
Speaker 2: This is in Virginia, and it's specifically in a gated community in Williamsburg, Virginia, a beautiful part of the country, by the way.
00:00:51
Speaker 1: Okay, so the fact is that there is a mother who has been convicted. Robes, what's the actual charge?
00:00:58
Speaker 2: The actual charge is contributing to the delinquency of a minor.
00:01:01
Speaker 1: Yes, because she let her five-year-old walk half a mile to a pond... She was reported for this. The cops showed up. She had to go to a little trial. She was convicted. Now, she's not going to jail. She got a six month sentence, we should say, but it was suspended. But still, Robes, this has set people off. And you're in one of two camps. You're in on her side. Parent how you want to. Or are you on the side maybe of the cops who did the right thing and say, lady, are you out of your mind? Let this five year old walk.
00:01:35
Speaker 2: Look, and I think whatever you're thinking right now may change or evolve when you get the details. Because, by the way, this mom is alsoâ it' s less about the conviction and the six-month suspended sentence. She is now on the Virginia Child Abuse and Neglect Registry for seven years, which meansâ She cannot volunteer in her son's classroom until he is in the sixth grade. She can't do anything related to the school or any formal activity with her child because, yes, she is now a registered child abuser.
00:02:10
Speaker 1: Okay, that's heavy. If you tell a mom, and this is a mom of four or five.
00:02:15
Speaker 2: I believe she's a mom of five.
00:02:17
Speaker 1: Okay, and you see their family, folks. This is a woman who clearly looks engaged with this family.
00:02:21
Speaker 2: She was eight months pregnant at the time, and that plays into this as well. Okay, so not that she was claiming she was out of her mind. She was tired. So this mom, her name is, by the way, her name is Carrie Ann Parkinson. She was eight months pregnant. She claims, and by the way, she is speaking out. She is telling her story, so all of this comes directly from her. But she says they had walked down that same street together hundreds of times, including six times that morning. She said her son, five-year-old Sam, is kind of obsessed with goose feathers. He likes to collect them. They live in a gated community together. in Williamsburg, Virginia, complete with security guards. So this is a very protected community, okay? So she had walked, she said he knows the path. She was like, I understand a mom, a parent might see a headline that I let my child walk to a pond by himself. She was like, I understand why that would cause alarm. It's not what happened. He just went on the path to the pond. The feathers are near it, but he had been on it six times already, even that morning. Okay. So she says he wanted to go back again. She was like, I'm eight months pregnant. I want to get lunch started. And she was tired, so she gave him permission to go. She said, you can go there, collect some feathers, and come right back. So a neighbor sees a little five-year-old boy walking by himself in the neighborhood near a pond.
00:03:49
Speaker 1: Which would cause some alarm.
00:03:51
Speaker 2: Yes. I think anyone, I do believe this, most people, neighbors would either call police, go to the child, or what she did was notify the security guard.
00:04:01
Speaker 1: And probably what you do is just go, hey, little man, what you doing out here?
00:04:05
Speaker 2: Are you good? Yes. Where's your mom? Where do you live? And then I would walk him back. The security guard ended up doing that, escorting this little boy back to the home. Now, according to the mom, Carrie Ann... He said to her, we don't permit children to be out in the neighborhood alone. He was a little bit upset with her. She responded back to him. Is that an HOA bylaw, a homeowners association bylaw? Because I really don't think that's the rules. And the guard responded to her, well, if it's not against the rules, it's against the law, and I'm going to call the police.
00:04:41
Speaker 1: Okay. This sounds where everything went sideways. Exactly.
00:04:44
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:04:44
Speaker 1: And this was completely unnecessary, and conviction shouldn't be there, and then cops never should have been called. If some rent-a-cop.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: Got an attitudeâ He didn't like how she spoke to him.
00:04:53
Speaker 1: He didn't like it. I have to work in this neighborhood with all you privileged a-holes.
00:04:58
Speaker 2: Karens.
00:04:59
Speaker 1: And now you've got this going on, and you're going to give me lip? I don't know if that's what happens. And I don't know. Rose, I'm just saying and joking here. I have no idea about this guy, so I'm not casting any aspersions. But I'm saying you could see that possibly.
00:05:11
Speaker 2: Yes. And when she described that conversation, I thought, I'm sorry. You got upset that someone was telling you how to parent. You reacted. He reacted. It escalated. Police get called. Child Protective Services respond. They went and checked it out. And then they decided two weeks later to charge her. with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. By the way, she could have pleaded out the no-low charge, but she refused to do so because she felt like that was her admitting guilt, and she didn't think she had done anything wrong. So she refused to plead out, and she was convicted. Now, here are some interesting facts about Carrie Ann Parkinson and her family. So as I mentioned, she had been eight months pregnant with her fifth child at the time of the incident. This is a woman who has her bachelor's degree in family science. Mm-hmm. She just got her law degree from William & Mary in May, and she was studying for the bar when all of this happened. So maybe you can understand her reaction to the legality of it all. Like she was maybe even feeling her right as a parent, especially given her education, to do as she chose with her own child. Your reaction to that?
00:06:23
Speaker 1: I always say this, Ro, just never the crime is the cover-up. Just in that moment, two people can't realize or recognize what was going on. And to just respect each other a little bit. To not see each other as bad people. Robes. Like, oh, I didn't know. What actually happened is we let him, he's on this path a lot, and I just let him walk. If that's an issue where you think I shouldn't do that anymore, I can assure you, I can just make sure this never happens again. And could have left it. And he could have heard that and just understood, like, okay, but come on now. He's little, and it's going to alarm some people in the neighborhood, so let's just make sure this doesn't happen again. Robes, this is not hard stuff. Everything escalates with us. Robes, you read that to me, and I hear ego. Ego crushes us so much in life. Robes, all this... Because two people, two adults, grown folks just couldn't look at each other and come to... You offended me by asking about my parenting, and you offended me now by questioning my authority to tell you what to do with your kid in this neighborhood. This is my neighborhood. I run this. You don't. That stuff, baby.
00:07:32
Speaker 2: That stuff, agreed, escalated it, but then police and prosecutors chose to pursue the charges, which is part of the debate here. She claims.
00:07:41
Speaker 1: Never should have been called.
00:07:42
Speaker 2: Right? Exactly. But once they got involved, where is the law? And that is a question right now because there are some rules in Virginia and several other states that would seem to give parents leniency when it comes to making choices about their children. She claims that she allowed her son to do this half-mile walk because she and her husband believe it's important for kids to, quote, encounter reasonable risks... And she added, And by the way, that is a one-mile round-trip walk at five years old. I believe he is in kindergarten. Mm-hmm. I know for me personally, and I don't care if it's a New York City street or a gated community. My parents live in one. I would be so worried about other people, all the possibilities. Maybe if I didn't even worry about my son, I would worry about how other people might react to my son. And does my son at five have enough life experience to know how to handle a stranger coming up to him, a car pulling up to him? And even if you think your son knows how to handle it, Does he really? Does he have life experiences? Okay.
00:09:06
Speaker 1: I would say no.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: Same.
00:09:08
Speaker 1: There is no way I would allow this. There is no way I've ever let a five-year-old just walk out on his or her. That's me. I defer to this parent. Knock yourself out. I have no criticism of this woman. I don't know this path. I don't know how often they've done it. I don't know how often he's maybe done this a couple times on his own before or a little bit on his own. Robes, didn't they describe as well that the path he was on There was like a 10-foot gap between that path and the street. So it's not like he's walking on a sidewalk very close to a street. I have a woman who's got five kids who are all alive and healthy. I will defer to her knowing what she's doing. Knock yourself out. I wouldn't do it, and that should be the end of it. There is no criticism. I don't have any hooting and hollering and screaming. How dare you? Nope, not at all. My criticism comes from those two who can't work this out, and the cops need to get called.
00:09:59
Speaker 2: I know, and the... interesting thing is, I mentioned this earlier, Virginia is one of 13 states with what they call a reasonable independence law. And that's supposed to prevent the state from second guessing a parent's decision.
00:10:12
Speaker 1: Isn't that exactly- Yeah.
00:10:14
Speaker 2: But doesn't this case seem like it would be exactly the reason why there's a reasonable independence law on the books in this state?
00:10:22
Speaker 1: Okay, but that's the thing. I say vague. Reasonable is a... That's true. Who's it reasonable to?
00:10:26
Speaker 2: That's true.
00:10:27
Speaker 1: That's just some vague language about still who gets to determine that you had a reasonable right to do what you did and what the child was doing was a reasonable risk.
00:10:38
Speaker 2: That is the law in which they will be appealing this decision, but I want to now... When we come back, get into the massive online debate that this story has caused. And one headline, I will tease it to you like this. Mom lands on abuse registry for letting her kid take a walk. Meanwhile, Lindsay Clancy could walk for killing her kids. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. We left you with that headline, and it was one of many as people react to hearing word that Carrie Ann Parkinson is now on an abuse registry for the next seven years in the state of Virginia, a mom of five, because she allowed her five-year-old son to walk half a mile towards a pond to collect some goose feathers, something he loves to do. So, yes, I was actually surprised. Most people, from what I gathered, are 100% on the side of this mom.
00:11:44
Speaker 1: Because they're parents. How dare you tell me anything? I know what my kid is capable of. I know what my kid can do, can't do. Yeah, my kid is more advanced than yours. All kinds of stuff.
00:11:54
Speaker 2: Kids are different. Yeah, and the interesting thing is this isn't a case of a mom who was negligent, who was looking the other way, who was distracted by her other kids. Right. who fell asleep, who is under the influence of some sort of substance.
00:12:06
Speaker 1: No.
00:12:06
Speaker 2: She is a working mom who actually has a very good command of the law, having just graduated from law school, and made a deliberate choice to give her son this responsibility. Do parents have the right to determine what age a child is capable of doing something independent of them? No.
00:12:27
Speaker 1: According to this, no. I mean, somebody at some point is going to make, there's not a hard number, but maybe more people would generally agree. Three is too young. Maybe some would go, okay, four is pushing it. Some would say five, that's too close. Some would, I mean, who's to say what too young is? And what you can allow your kid to do that nobody else in those two cop cars or some judge has any idea about your kid.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember you and I having this conversation because my daughters are, what, 10 years older than Sabine and counting. So you've asked, like, Is it too young to let Sabine stay in the house alone when she was, I believe, 10? Is it too young to let Sabine walk from apartment to apartment? At what age is that okay? Look, we all have these questions and we all want the best for our kids. And look, this woman, I think this is very interesting. She claims that the only reason why her son was scared was because the security guard said to him, there are scary adults out here. You should never be alone. You don't know what someone else could do to you. And put this idea in his head that adults are scary and bad things can happen to you. And she said that was the most traumatizing part of the entire experience for her son is what the security guard said to him.
00:13:47
Speaker 1: Maybe he's not a parent. I'm serious.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Right?
00:13:50
Speaker 1: There's something that a man, woman, there is a way that a parent approaches a helpless kid or somebody they think needs help. That's just the way you do it, and that's not how you do it. What are you doing out here? Somebody going to snatch you up?
00:14:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly what basically happened.
00:14:03
Speaker 1: Hey, little guy, you okay? What are you doing out here? Okay, let me just get you back to your mom. We'll work it out. That's how you talk to a kid.
00:14:08
Speaker 2: Yes, apparently that's not what happened. And look, listen to some of these comments. I want to get your reaction. Stupid, rich, paranoid Karens, pretentious homeowners associations, I guess paying for 24-hour security. three golf courses and club amenities also alleviates these types of communities from any responsibility or inconvenience associated with knowing your neighbors or caring about them personally.
00:14:32
Speaker 1: You knew it was going to piss me off. Yeah.
00:14:35
Speaker 2: But their point is like, you've got this pretentious community and they don't even care enough about each other. They don't know each other enough to go and talk to her mother to mother or neighbor to neighbor and say, I saw your kid out here. No involved police involved security guards. disassociate yourself from any actual human interaction with this family and just judge them.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: But that's, yeah.
00:14:55
Speaker 2: And now they're being judged. Exactly.
00:14:57
Speaker 1: Just judge, judge, judge, judge, judge. We just don't know. Why can't we have robes? Why can't we start with this? This is just a decent lady. The security guard's a decent dude. The neighbor who called's a decent person.
00:15:10
Speaker 2: They all had the best of intentions.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: Let's just assume that. And you know, as adults often do. Egos and pride and all kinds of stuff gets in the way. And we make mistakes. We mess up. Everybody messed up. Is anyone making the argument, Robes, that the right thing was done here? That this child was, continues to be in danger by having her as a parent? Is anybody saying that? No.
00:15:35
Speaker 2: Exactly. And I think you'll like this next comment. Don't love this in cities. But this, and this is where people get political, this leftist BS, where it is a criminal offense to let your kids go outside. As a cop, I am ashamed of this outcome. This is simply the direction the world is going in.
00:15:51
Speaker 1: Different kids, different, yes, different maturity, but also different geographical locations. Rose, the type of stuff I used to do when I was a kid in Terrell, Arkansas, with my granddaddy. I assure you.
00:16:06
Speaker 2: We didn't wear seatbelts, for God's sakes.
00:16:08
Speaker 1: I was on the back of motorcycles with my uncles. I drove a car when I couldn't even reach.
00:16:13
Speaker 2: Back of pickup trucks, driving around.
00:16:15
Speaker 1: Doesn't matter. Oh, yeah, that thing.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Taking our bikes, my brother and I, all over the neighborhood.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: It's not safe. We get it. It's different. But there are different dangers for a kid walking around in West Helena, Arkansas, in the backyards, than there are for a kid walking up the Upper West Side in New York. It's different. I wouldn't think anything of it. Rose, how many times have we seen little kids walking up and down the street on a country road somewhere? I never stopped to think anything.
00:16:46
Speaker 2: It's just what it is. I guess it startled the neighbor. Yes, it did. Look, you go over to other countries. I'll never forget when I went to Tanzania, and I saw what looked like a six-, seven-year-old little girl literally leading a herd of cattle on her own with a staff, and she had a big old smile on her face and was so confident and knew exactly what she was doing. But look, there have been a couple cases here in this. I wanted to remind you. I think you'll remember the one in Maryland in 2015. where the parents were eventually cleared, but they were facing criminal neglect charges because they let their kids ages 10 and 6 walk home alone from a park. Neighbors called, police got involved, and that was a huge story back then.
00:17:26
Speaker 1: Is that the whole helicopter parent debate.
00:17:27
Speaker 2: That started right now? Yes, yes, but this is recent. Georgia, Fulton County. claims of neglect and abuse after a couple allowed their six-year-old to scoot her home from a playground a quarter mile away. They had charges against them. They were eventually dropped on appeal. And in Texas, a mother actually spent the night in jail. She had to resign from her job after she was convicted for endangering her child because she made her eight-year-old walk a half a mile home to calm down. Look, I believe, maybe I'm forgetting this, eight. But, like, I feel like I could see, like, get out of the car. You're being obnoxious. Walk the rest of the way home. I think my dad threatened to make me walk the rest of the way home sometimes. Like, that's absolutely. I laugh because I remember, I think, being threatened with that as a kid.
00:18:15
Speaker 1: You might not have seen the video. Former NFL player not too long ago.
00:18:18
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:18:19
Speaker 1: It was 2 in the morning, and he had his kid out running.
00:18:22
Speaker 2: Running.
00:18:23
Speaker 1: As a punishment or training or whatever.
00:18:24
Speaker 2: And people were going off on him. And some people were thanking him.
00:18:28
Speaker 1: Props to each his and her own. Parenting is just not something you touch. I am not criticizing anybody for what they think is right for their kid. Maybe it's not what I would do. Fine. And I have my reasons. You might have your reasons for letting the kid do it. The debate has sparked. It escalated.
00:18:47
Speaker 2: Yes. Unnecessarily so. And I do not believe that she should be on a child... abuse registry for the next seven years, limiting her ability to be a PTA parent.
00:18:58
Speaker 1: Think of the other people who were probably on that registry and what they did. Some would go, oh, that's nice of her to allow the kid something he really wanted to do. She couldn't make it and still find a way. I wonder if he'd done it before, like on his own.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: It's possible. It's possible. And look, you know, this is a debate that will continue. People think they know best. But when the law gets evolved, the state gets evolved, Now it's a legal issue and she is appealing it. We will see because we have seen in other cases similar to this that those appeals have been won. So she may have a, and look, with her recent law degree, she may be able to even represent herself.
00:19:35
Speaker 1: But is it also fair to, I mean, when police show up, prosecutors get involved, you have a victim. And aren't they supposed to be looking out first and foremost for this five-year-old that they believe was in danger?
00:19:47
Speaker 2: Yes. Okay.
00:19:49
Speaker 1: That's the argument. so what's the age baby oh for me no no for this case like how do we do this.
00:19:57
Speaker 2: Every kid's different like and that's her point.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: No but the security guard at what point would he not call the cops okay You're six, you're good. Seven, I'm okay with that.
00:20:07
Speaker 2: Eight, okay.
00:20:08
Speaker 1: Like, is it up to him to determine? This is what it sounds like. He gets to determine whether or not your parenting warrants him calling the cops. Don't piss him off.
00:20:21
Speaker 2: Well, this debate is absolutely going to continue. We will follow any new developments. We always appreciate you listening to us, everybody. I'm Amy Robach, alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon.