June 2, 2026
Creepy Or Cringy Or Both? Mother-Son “Hug” Sets The Internet On FIre
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RSS Feed Jenny Mollen is doing damage control following a controversial post showing her intertwined with her 12-year-old son on the bed, with her in-between his legs; the original caption saying the “eldest son is the most toxic relationship of your life.” While Mollen took the caption down, her essay she posted days ago is making headlines as well. Mollen is in the middle of divorcing actor Jason Biggs of “American Pie” fame and penned an essay with the first line reading: “Call me old-fashioned, but I only want my sons to marry women with dead mothers” and ending with “I pray that at least one of them is gay.”
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it's Tuesday, June second, How did we get here? A well known author and actor has now become the center of controversy just because of an embrace with her son and with us. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Actually, in that moment, I kind of got stuck. How old a kid again?
00:00:22
Speaker 2: Twelve? Or their two twelve kids? Twelve years old?
00:00:25
Speaker 3: And you know it's not just about the embrace. Yes, come on, it's just an brain full body. We can get into why just the hug itself is a little bit uncomfortable to look at for some, For some, I would argue for most. And then you add the caption, then you add a blog or a vlog however you want to call it, and all of those things together there is a I think a huge need for a conversation for anyone who is the mother of sons and any woman who has ever dated a man who has had an immediate difficult interaction with his mother.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: All not mama's boy.
00:01:16
Speaker 3: I just would say, for any woman, and I think it's probably a lot of us who have had an immediate difficult with your significant others mother, this will all make sense and validate you it's interesting as a as a woman who's only had daughters.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: It's interesting. And I'm okay with the conversation. I am not okay with the judgment and the ridicule and the stuff that's coming this woman's way because we don't know, we don't get it. We saw a snapshot, so let's get into.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: More than a snapshot. It is a snap it's the context behind the snapshot, a cont context from where from her?
00:02:01
Speaker 1: Oh there was no it was we don't get enough from Oh. Yeah, we should say what we talk about.
00:02:05
Speaker 3: First of all, First of all, yes, I know you're just playing Devil's advocate, because if so.
00:02:14
Speaker 1: You have, I give people space for what I don't understand. I am not gonna judge anybody. I can react to things, sure, and I will. So I'm not defending, but I'm not attacking, is what I'm saying.
00:02:29
Speaker 3: I am. Look, I think this maybe, Look I actually think this might be a situation.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: Babe.
00:02:38
Speaker 3: We're not only being a mother, which I understand in a way you can't, and being a daughter in law in the way you can't, which is in no way understanding female to female relationships, which you can't. This all is both alarming and validating all in one.
00:03:01
Speaker 1: Okay, So we want to and I just want to leave space for Ginny Mullen, to give her some space for whatever is going on in her life. And a lot is obviously lately people A lot. I mean, she is an accomplished author, but her name was in the headlines recently, or at least before this whole controversy because of who she was married to and who she's getting divorced from.
00:03:23
Speaker 3: Yes, she and I know she's actually said she's not super happy about being known basically beyond being her own accomplished self for who she married.
00:03:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Jason Biggs, the actor Jason Biggs. A lot of people might not know that name immediately, but you see his face, you will know him from American Pie fame. He's done plenty of other things in his career after that, but that was the thing that really put him on the map. And recently it came out that these two were getting divorced. That's why her name was in the headlines before a social media post from her recently and the reason this thing has gone crazy. Let's try. I know we're in an audio platform here, Robes audio only, so trying to describe for you what got going. It was a picture of her her twelve year old son on a bed, embracing You put it in the best descriptive, right, We just describe what it is.
00:04:14
Speaker 2: Then it is what it is.
00:04:15
Speaker 3: Okay, well, okay, So there are two slides of her intertwined with her twelve year old son on a bed. She's on top of him, he is underneath her. Fine, hugging, but I think part of the more alarming.
00:04:33
Speaker 2: Just describe it before we start to find heart.
00:04:36
Speaker 3: He has his legs spread, she is in between them, and so yes, it's a position that feels sexual. It just does. And then their arms are intertwined. And I know you just leaned back and felt a little overwhelmed by what I just said. But I do think that that is an initial reaction when you look at that photo.
00:04:58
Speaker 1: I was only trying to give a description before we gave our opinion.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: But that's fine.
00:05:02
Speaker 3: Well that was my description.
00:05:03
Speaker 1: Well, the description is not sexual. The description is what it is. And you see a kid laying on his back on a bed. He has his mother laying in between his legs. She has her hand behind the kid's head. Her head is laying next to his on the bed. You can't see either of their faces, and then he has his arms around the back of her head. This is a full embrace on a bed between two people. Now what I described. If I had not told you it was a mother and son, you might not think this would have been two people who were related outside of marriage. So just in the simple explanation, second photo shows kind of the same thing, and I guess Robes. In the second one, she's more so directly on top of him, still hands behind his head. You don't see their faces, but she is laying in between his legs on a bed. Twelve year old and there's mama. So as what we describe, now go to the next thing, Robes, which is you see that picture and react.
00:06:09
Speaker 2: How ew nice?
00:06:12
Speaker 3: I mean, what's your reaction?
00:06:14
Speaker 2: I have questions.
00:06:16
Speaker 1: I do have questions because if you had not told me that this was a mother and son without any context anywhere else, and I just see these two people, they're obviously in a loving embrace that goes beyond just.
00:06:30
Speaker 3: Familial correct, And then add to it the caption she had initially on that post.
00:06:38
Speaker 1: Can I can I say is it fair to okay? The picture is one thing is the caption, the thing that made it worse.
00:06:44
Speaker 3: Yes, it made it worse. It was already not I would think most people. I'm sorry, but I just think most people would say, if you want to take that photo privately and capture a moment that you know was innocent and beautiful and sweet, that's great. But to actually post it and to not consider how else it could be taken, to me is where the adult part of her needed to rise above any cuteness or sweetness she saw in it, and just to acknowledge that it could be taken in another way, and she's subjecting her twelve year old son's laws.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: That's the exact thing I want to talk to you about. That's the exact thing I want to talk to about in a second.
00:07:23
Speaker 2: But go ahead.
00:07:24
Speaker 1: We should say what the caption said. When do I have right? This is as has come down?
00:07:28
Speaker 3: She took the caption down, but it's so weird what's in its place now? I told you when I went on her Instagram page, which I would love some clarification for folks who understand Instagram better than I do. Okay, but her initial, her original chosen caption was this the eldest son is the most toxic relationship of your life. Won't get it unless you have a son that makes you do things that you would never ever ever do for another man.
00:07:57
Speaker 1: What in the actual I'm not sure what she was trying to say, and I actually don't know, Rope. She has two sons, right, she does. She's a one with two sons. There's plenty of conversation about the relationship between mothers and sons, and there are plenty of women who are dating guys and have questions about the relationship between the guy they're dating and their mother.
00:08:24
Speaker 2: This is just part of it. Now, she is in this.
00:08:27
Speaker 1: She has said this, and it seemed like so much of the reaction and the feedback I got, or excuse me, not feedback I got. But stuff I saw was about this versus the picture. Yes, the picture is what it is, but I guess coupled with this caption, I guess.
00:08:43
Speaker 3: It's doubly bizarre. Babe. I ask you this. We often talk about, like putting yourself in that same situation. Can you imagine a picture of you with your mom on Instagram for the world to see, when she has hundreds of thousands of followers, How would you feel as an adult.
00:09:01
Speaker 1: And this is where the question I was saying this is going to bring up. The issue, is the problem the relationship with the son or that she put this picture out. If this happened in the background and nobody ever saw it, would you have a problem with the relationship. No, this woman had with her son.
00:09:21
Speaker 3: No. I think there are intimate moments that can be innocent and sweet, but to sell them, to have a picture to and then to promote it knowing that it could be taken in another way, and then to add a bizarre caption to it that implies something beyond it's it. It begs for further questions and follow up.
00:09:44
Speaker 1: I'm trying to give her the benefit of doubt. If she made a mistake, she overlooked, she didn't think of how it was going to be taken. She was she thought it was an innocent in a sweet, cute moment and didn't realize. Maybe she regrets it. The second guesses and now I don't know, but apparently something got to it because she took it down.
00:09:58
Speaker 2: It's strange the caption down.
00:10:00
Speaker 3: She took down the caption. She did not take down the post, which I think is interesting and Oddly, I've never seen this before. Other people might know what this is, but Instagram, when you go up to her account, underneath the photo, it just says community note written by an Instagram user. Jenny removed the caption for this post. It originally had a pedophilic statement about her son that is on her Instagram like that's on her post, and then it says original caption, your eldest son will be the most toxic guy you ever date. And it offers you an option to click on sources or more info, and then it asks you if this helped you, do you agree? I have never seen that before. It's almost as if they're treating this like they have like legal obligations to provide context for her photo and the original.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: Caption.
00:11:05
Speaker 1: There's a whole thing here. I didn't know about them, but about community notes, and yes these are you know, it's almost like Wikipedia where anybody can contribute and with verifications and whatnot. But it allows people to give context they believe to certain posts, and yes they can put them up there, and they have that community note signature.
00:11:26
Speaker 3: Babe, if you saw that somebody and it was Instagram approved referencing a photo you put up with your child as something that a pedophile would put up? Would you not immediately remove that from your profile?
00:11:41
Speaker 1: That's start to me again, this is where she I'm trying to leave space. That's all because I don't know her. I don't know that kid, I don't know that relationship. So I leave space for that. I leave space, as you know, for parenting.
00:11:55
Speaker 2: I do.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: However, Rodes, I am not crazy, and I know what I'm seeing in that picture. And I know that if you told me, if you just showed me that picture, I would say, who are those two people hooking up? And if you tell me that's a mother and a son, I will say, what the actual hell?
00:12:13
Speaker 3: And that's what everyone else who look at that photo pretty much said.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: And I get that completely. Now, then you tell me that this is what she wrote as a part of that picture, I go a doubly what.
00:12:26
Speaker 2: The hell that? I'm not denying that at all.
00:12:30
Speaker 1: I just want to not judge the lady, And yes I have questions, but if that's their relationship, but it seems like so much ropes is the caption and the fact that she put the picture out versus what her relationship might be with the son.
00:12:44
Speaker 3: But my love. People have also said reverse it. Have that be a father with his daughter.
00:12:49
Speaker 2: You get arrested, you alive, you arrest.
00:12:53
Speaker 3: There's no question Sabine so a double standard.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: Sabine's thirteen.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: We tore around, play around, poke, and he's attached at the hip to me constantly. You know that that we don't. Yeah, and even if we were messing around in some way and there was an awkward picture, you.
00:13:11
Speaker 3: Wouldn't post the picture and then say this is like a toxic girlfriend, like she made the comparison she switched it around if the photo wasn't bad enough. She made a reference beyond just a platonic moment, which where.
00:13:24
Speaker 1: Did that note come from? This one here that I'm pointing to. Where when did she post that one? Or that was some follow up?
00:13:30
Speaker 3: Yes, are we fond? So she actually was replying to folks who were messaging or leaving comments on this particular post, and she said, it's like, because I'm getting separated, because I'm not protected by the institution of marriage, I'm suddenly like a different kind of target in what I'm posting, Like this is absolutely jaw dropping. A photo of me hugging my twelve year old child is getting ridiculed, And I will argue that it's beyond just a photo of for hugging her child because of not only where they are, where how they're positioned, and the caption she put. And she has to recognize that and acknowledge this goes beyond her hugging her twelve year old child.
00:14:11
Speaker 2: Okay, that's Is it different? It is? Oh? Okay, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
00:14:15
Speaker 1: Is it different because it's a mom and a boy versus a dad and a girl.
00:14:19
Speaker 3: It's less severe. It would be significantly worse if it were reversed.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: Okay, but I mean, I got it disgusting to say this out loud, but really, folks, imagine a grown man, a old man, laying in between the legs of his thirteen year old twelve year old daughter and an embrace on a bed and posting that. Nope, now you say that out loudly. Obviously, that's ridiculous.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: I actually feel sick to my stomach thinking about it.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: Yes, but yeah, so when to your point, Robes, it is not fair to just say this is me hugging my child.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: It's beyond that. And then when you take a look at what else has happened, just this past month than May, and this is when they announced their separation. Don't know if she's going through something, but she has written an essay of vlog a.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: Blog, yes, and it's titled please Stay, I want you, I need you, Oh God, and the first line is call me old fashioned, but I only want my sons to marry women with dead mothers. Stay here. We'll explain more of this essay. Let you hear more of it. And she was just getting started with that first line.
00:15:44
Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ, where we are discussing woo something that's actually kind of hard to talk about. We're talking about actor author Jenny Mullen. She is receiving a lot of incoming, so to speak, not only for a photo she posted with her on top of her twelve year old son in a bed, embracing with a caption about him being the most toxic relationship she'd ever have. It crossed all sorts of boundaries for a lot of folks. But then when you go back and look, just a few weeks ago, she posted an essay about her relationship with her sons and TJ. As we went to break read the first line. The title and the first line.
00:16:31
Speaker 1: And I don't think I don't think this was getting a lot of attention or this much. It happened beforehand, it has, but now people are going back and looking and do you see robes. When they made the announcement about the divorce, it.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: Was in May. I only know this all happened within weeks of one another.
00:16:46
Speaker 1: This is all brand new. What she's going through, I don't know. But this is a woman been married to this man for quite some time, eighteen years. She has two sons, and that family is breaking up three guys that have been in her house robes for the past decade plus as a unit. It's going to be broken up. I can't imagine what that feels like and what that's like, what that's like, but Robes, she is, she is talking here and this is the essay again we mentioned and this is all yes on her website, but these are some of the lines.
00:17:22
Speaker 2: At least will share of note if you will.
00:17:26
Speaker 3: And look, I would just I would just say, I want to make the full disclosure. I'm a girl mom. I'm not a boy mom. Sure that I have a brother, but I don't always Yes, he has three boys, so yeah, my sister in law is a boy mom. But I don't understand that relationship intimately because I have not had it. But look, I think a lot of women have dated men where you have a red flag raised when you see a very close relationship with their moms. Now, on one level, that's a good thing. He knows how to respect a woman, he loves a woman, he knows what it's like to put a woman up on a pedestal, like there are a lot of things that could be good about that, but there are also red flags that come with that relationship. Whereas I will never be good enough for this mom, I will always there will always be another woman in our relationship. Who do you see men going back? Who whose opinion do I value? Are my mom's or my wife?
00:18:27
Speaker 2: That's cliche, it is.
00:18:29
Speaker 3: It's a thing, right, But she is actually like validating any woman who has ever felt like her mother in law or her future mother in law was deliberately undermining her. Apparently it's a thing.
00:18:42
Speaker 1: There's some of that legit though, right, yes, but some of again, we don't know Jenny Mullen. I want to give her space for what she.
00:18:52
Speaker 3: Let people hear her. She actually said, Okay, we will start from the beginning. Call me old fashioned, but I only want my sons to marry women with dead mothers. It's my only shot at staying relevant, of seeming useful, and of winning. By comparison, having boys is a mind fuck. It builds you up only to tear you apart.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: I think that's Robes. I think that's okay, right, isn't that?
00:19:22
Speaker 3: But it is?
00:19:23
Speaker 2: But Robes.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: There's some women listening to this right now who feel that pain. It sounds extreme and she might be tongue in cheek or being a little sarcastic, a little rhetorical here, But robes with dead mothers because I don't want them to have to go through what what maybe I went through?
00:19:41
Speaker 3: Purpose She doesn't want to compete with another woman for her son's affection.
00:19:44
Speaker 1: Well, there's that, bro But that I want to leave room for there being some pain, and some genuine pain in that statement. I think it's selfish, Okay, I I that can be true as well.
00:19:55
Speaker 2: Both of those things can be true, can they not?
00:19:57
Speaker 3: They can they can? Ah, It's just it's it's I mean, look, I appreciate the honesty she said not long ago read last week. I couldn't even go to the bathroom without my kids following. They still need me to fall asleep, go to school, interpret the world, cut it up into small, digestible bites, and spoon feeded to them before seven to fifteen am each morning. We have a shorthand, a long hand, and a second language. That Jason, that's her soon to be ex still luckily doesn't understand Luckily Again, Okay, I move on. But these baby remoras, these emotional vampires, the most emotionally high maintenance men I've ever dated, are growing up and eventually I will lose them. Look, babe, I'm sorry. I want to interject here. She is viewing her children as boyfriends, as people who love her in a romantic way. I think she is. I think I think she is. I think she is unfortunately blending or merging love, which can be very different and separate and needing someone and nurturing someone is very different than having a romantic love with someone. And I feel like, in a weird way, she's combining it all together, and that's what feels icky for a lot of folks.
00:21:23
Speaker 1: Okay, soe ikey is one word, that's okay, ropes this, I'm listening to it, and I'm not taking issue with what you're saying. I am falling on the side of sympathy. I am falling on the side of pain. This sounds like a woman who is hurting in some way. I don't understand. And yes to all you're saying, and I think any counselor would tell her it's unhealthy.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: Well, I just my question is I understand it. She may be hurting. Is she hurting her sons in the process.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: Okay, that's possible, But I don't think. I don't think her heart is in the wrong place. I think something that has happened that has put her emotionally maybe in the wrong place and going about it the wrong way. There's nothing I'm saying. They say, no ropes, That's not what I'm just It sounds so sad, it sounds painful to me, babe.
00:22:20
Speaker 3: It almost sounds abusive to me.
00:22:21
Speaker 2: To the children.
00:22:23
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, I it does.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: Maybe, and maybe some therapists would take that stance and be able to get through to her that you're hurting your kids. Yes, possibly, But this is this is not a woman who has ill intent.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: I disagree. I think she has selfish intent.
00:22:39
Speaker 1: No no, I said, ill ill intent, ill intent. She is not trying to harm anybody else.
00:22:45
Speaker 2: She's not baby.
00:22:47
Speaker 1: And if she's being selfish, possibly and that's hurting her kids, possibly she doesn't want to do that because she's a mom, and I will give her that benefit of the doubt. But yes, babe, something is going on, and I just like to be open to the possibility that it is open to the possibility that give Do we extend.
00:23:08
Speaker 3: That same grace that you're giving her to a man who said these things about his daughter?
00:23:13
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, babe, we talked about two different things. You are talking about a relationship that's unique to women and boys, right, That is not the same with men and girls.
00:23:24
Speaker 3: Right?
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Were you talking about something specific?
00:23:26
Speaker 3: If you if you had a father say he was jealous of the attention his daughter gave other boys, does that feel creepy or weird?
00:23:36
Speaker 1: It is creepy, It is weird, It is inappropriate, and it is uncommon. You're talking about a common thing here with women and their boys. You're talking about this is some Can we say that out loud? This is a common occurrence, is it not? And this is something in pop culture not pop culture.
00:23:53
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think that her characterization of it is common. I think there might be moments were women might feel these things, but her putting it in these terms in this way is jarring.
00:24:05
Speaker 1: Okay, stay with me on the point that it is a common thing sometimes about an attachment mothers had to their son that goes sometimes beyond seemingly just a parent kid relationship and a loving closeness. Not inappropriate in some romantic way, but it seems to cross some line beyond that line.
00:24:31
Speaker 3: This is beyond what I would normally say, because of a hug, yeah, and posting it with the caption she did, and then putting this blog out, Yeah, I think this goes beyond I do? I do? I do? I just I think that this. I understand all of the reaction to it.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: Oh, all that I can understand. But why are we not giving this lady a little rope about a scenario that you say, is is it not?
00:25:02
Speaker 3: I think this is beyond common.
00:25:04
Speaker 1: No, no which part baby, but that she posted it because she's the shamous that.
00:25:11
Speaker 3: She know that she's saying that she wants her sons to marry women who have dead mothers. Okay, I think that's really extreme on the extreme end of this.
00:25:20
Speaker 2: Okay, babe, you're not.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: I just don't think you're giving her a fair shake, and that she's writing she's famous. She might have been tongue in cheeks, she might have been joking, but even if she's not, you're not giving her a break that there might not be a bunch of mothers out there with sons who can relate to being through an experience that they went through with their mother in laws that they don't want to happen.
00:25:44
Speaker 2: And I'm just I'm just trying.
00:25:45
Speaker 1: To give the lady a fair shake on something that you are pointing out to me is a thing.
00:25:52
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, this is just the most extreme version of it I've ever seen, That's all I mean. And I do think that. And she even talked about just watching her twelve year old text with a girl who was also twelve. She said, I could already tell my brand of toxic. She was bossing him around and using big words, and he was utterly spun. I complained to Jason that I wanted to intervene before he got hurt and that she wasn't even hotter than me. See that those are these moments right there where I'm like, that is beyond what you would normally Here, I'm saying, she's comparing her level of beauty to her twelve year old son's latest love interests.
00:26:34
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is you've pointed out to me on shows We've watched, reality shows, we watched where women and mothers behave this way when it comes to their sons. And because we have it here with this high profile, and it's like some anomaly, but I feel this goes in line with the thing you've explained. This would be crazy to me if you haven't explained to me previously that this is this.
00:26:58
Speaker 3: Is crazy to me, like to say, and this twelve year old wasn't even hotter than me. She was comparing herself to a twelve year old girl.
00:27:06
Speaker 1: But that was the point you keep making to me in all of these arguments robes that women that have sons oftentimes do compare themselves. This woman, in my opinion, is being vulnerable and putting this out there, not showing a sickness or an illness. You don't think there's women out there that can relate to what she's saying.
00:27:29
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. I haven't had this experience, So I don't know. I think this is beyond what I've seen Like this to me rises to another level. That's just my personal opinion and my experience.
00:27:43
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, we haven't had anybody to talk about it like this, to expose it like this, to put a picture out like this, to put a caption out like this, to have fame like this, to have a divorce. Right, I'm just saying it might be in our face, and she's talking about it in a way that most of the time we don't see. But you're the one, I swear to you, Ropes, You're the one that has pointed this out to me over the years we've been dating.
00:28:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think that there are there are shades of gray, and this is an extreme version. That's my opinion. She also she also ends with this, today there's still little They still crawl into my sweaters and into my sheets. They still need me to open milk cartons and operate on invisible injuries. I'm still in it, but also somehow outside of it, fully aware. I am living through the longest goodbye of my life. I pray that at least one of them is gay.
00:28:35
Speaker 1: Okay, I liked their opening line or a closing line. I thought it was funny as she went for it on both of them.
00:28:43
Speaker 3: Can I also worry about like what that does to them? Are they gonna be yeah? Are they gonna feel eternal guilt like they've left their mom, They've betrayed their mom because they fell in love with another woman. Can they ever feel totally comfortable taking up with, you know, in a life with another woman and moving on from their mom that somehow they betrayed her by loving another woman, and by this essay, that does seem what it implies.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: So it's complicated. Would she feel this way? Would this be the case if she were not getting divorced all her men are leaving her. I'm just trying. I'm not a therapist, baby, but I'm trying to leave space for what is being talked about. We've dealt with divorce, we know how that feels. To make sure you want your kid to love you more, to you have the best time at your place, to have the best vacations, all these things ropes, and now these kids are being split up. My baby, I lost the man and now my baby. Where's that love? Where's that masculine love going to come from now.
00:29:47
Speaker 3: It should not come from her son's That's unhealthy.
00:29:49
Speaker 1: I'm saying that everybody agrees with you, but I'm just saying, give a little beat of sympathy to this life. Is what I'm seeing. I just don't want to dismiss her as sick or twisted or creepy or whatever else. A woman who is now going to be divorced, house is broken up after twenty years, kids are going to be who knows where and how going through that rope.
00:30:17
Speaker 2: I don't know what this woman is going through.
00:30:19
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to give give her a little space after what is, without question, Robes.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: A little creepy in the pictures it is. I'm not knocking that.
00:30:34
Speaker 1: There's zero chance Robes, if you saw a picture of me horsing around with Sabine in that exact same pose, you would text me and go, what the actual hell?
00:30:44
Speaker 3: You would never happened.
00:30:45
Speaker 2: It would never happen.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: But beyond that, but beyond that, you would never post it. You never put that caption, you never write this essay. I just think, look, I understand that everybody's going through something, and I want and literally we've been through our own moments obviously, and I think everybody has in their own way and their own moments. But what you choose to put out in the world, what you choose to write, just remember your kids are going to see it and read it. And I just think you need to be a little bit more self less in those moments. And you can write in your journal all you want, tell your therapist everything you want, put up a scrapbook for yourself to remember, and talk to your best friends. But sometimes some things are better left unsaid.
00:31:25
Speaker 1: Okay that, oh my god, we are one hundred percent that is that might be the issue Robes is maybe not the relationship with well, well, I won't say not the relationship with the sun, but I don't pretend to know that it was the posting.
00:31:40
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got friends at school, doesn't he.
00:31:42
Speaker 3: Of course he does. I'm thinking about them, and I don't know that she was. And look, I don't want to I don't want to throw that stone.
00:31:51
Speaker 2: But fair, that's fair.
00:31:52
Speaker 3: That's what I would just say as a mom who's look, we've all gone through some shit, and we've gone through some public shit and our number one goal and we didn't always do the best job but we tried to protect them above all else. I just hope her kids get that same level of protection.
00:32:06
Speaker 1: And maybe she realized she made a misstep, and we'll hear from her later.
00:32:11
Speaker 3: We shall see, but this is certainly getting a lot of attention, and we always appreciate you listening to us. I may be Robock alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it's Tuesday, June second, How did we get here? A well known author and actor has now become the center of controversy just because of an embrace with her son and with us. Welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Actually, in that moment, I kind of got stuck. How old a kid again?
00:00:22
Speaker 2: Twelve? Or their two twelve kids? Twelve years old?
00:00:25
Speaker 3: And you know it's not just about the embrace. Yes, come on, it's just an brain full body. We can get into why just the hug itself is a little bit uncomfortable to look at for some, For some, I would argue for most. And then you add the caption, then you add a blog or a vlog however you want to call it, and all of those things together there is a I think a huge need for a conversation for anyone who is the mother of sons and any woman who has ever dated a man who has had an immediate difficult interaction with his mother.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: All not mama's boy.
00:01:16
Speaker 3: I just would say, for any woman, and I think it's probably a lot of us who have had an immediate difficult with your significant others mother, this will all make sense and validate you it's interesting as a as a woman who's only had daughters.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: It's interesting. And I'm okay with the conversation. I am not okay with the judgment and the ridicule and the stuff that's coming this woman's way because we don't know, we don't get it. We saw a snapshot, so let's get into.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: More than a snapshot. It is a snap it's the context behind the snapshot, a cont context from where from her?
00:02:01
Speaker 1: Oh there was no it was we don't get enough from Oh. Yeah, we should say what we talk about.
00:02:05
Speaker 3: First of all, First of all, yes, I know you're just playing Devil's advocate, because if so.
00:02:14
Speaker 1: You have, I give people space for what I don't understand. I am not gonna judge anybody. I can react to things, sure, and I will. So I'm not defending, but I'm not attacking, is what I'm saying.
00:02:29
Speaker 3: I am. Look, I think this maybe, Look I actually think this might be a situation.
00:02:37
Speaker 2: Babe.
00:02:38
Speaker 3: We're not only being a mother, which I understand in a way you can't, and being a daughter in law in the way you can't, which is in no way understanding female to female relationships, which you can't. This all is both alarming and validating all in one.
00:03:01
Speaker 1: Okay, So we want to and I just want to leave space for Ginny Mullen, to give her some space for whatever is going on in her life. And a lot is obviously lately people A lot. I mean, she is an accomplished author, but her name was in the headlines recently, or at least before this whole controversy because of who she was married to and who she's getting divorced from.
00:03:23
Speaker 3: Yes, she and I know she's actually said she's not super happy about being known basically beyond being her own accomplished self for who she married.
00:03:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Jason Biggs, the actor Jason Biggs. A lot of people might not know that name immediately, but you see his face, you will know him from American Pie fame. He's done plenty of other things in his career after that, but that was the thing that really put him on the map. And recently it came out that these two were getting divorced. That's why her name was in the headlines before a social media post from her recently and the reason this thing has gone crazy. Let's try. I know we're in an audio platform here, Robes audio only, so trying to describe for you what got going. It was a picture of her her twelve year old son on a bed, embracing You put it in the best descriptive, right, We just describe what it is.
00:04:14
Speaker 2: Then it is what it is.
00:04:15
Speaker 3: Okay, well, okay, So there are two slides of her intertwined with her twelve year old son on a bed. She's on top of him, he is underneath her. Fine, hugging, but I think part of the more alarming.
00:04:33
Speaker 2: Just describe it before we start to find heart.
00:04:36
Speaker 3: He has his legs spread, she is in between them, and so yes, it's a position that feels sexual. It just does. And then their arms are intertwined. And I know you just leaned back and felt a little overwhelmed by what I just said. But I do think that that is an initial reaction when you look at that photo.
00:04:58
Speaker 1: I was only trying to give a description before we gave our opinion.
00:05:01
Speaker 2: But that's fine.
00:05:02
Speaker 3: Well that was my description.
00:05:03
Speaker 1: Well, the description is not sexual. The description is what it is. And you see a kid laying on his back on a bed. He has his mother laying in between his legs. She has her hand behind the kid's head. Her head is laying next to his on the bed. You can't see either of their faces, and then he has his arms around the back of her head. This is a full embrace on a bed between two people. Now what I described. If I had not told you it was a mother and son, you might not think this would have been two people who were related outside of marriage. So just in the simple explanation, second photo shows kind of the same thing, and I guess Robes. In the second one, she's more so directly on top of him, still hands behind his head. You don't see their faces, but she is laying in between his legs on a bed. Twelve year old and there's mama. So as what we describe, now go to the next thing, Robes, which is you see that picture and react.
00:06:09
Speaker 2: How ew nice?
00:06:12
Speaker 3: I mean, what's your reaction?
00:06:14
Speaker 2: I have questions.
00:06:16
Speaker 1: I do have questions because if you had not told me that this was a mother and son without any context anywhere else, and I just see these two people, they're obviously in a loving embrace that goes beyond just.
00:06:30
Speaker 3: Familial correct, And then add to it the caption she had initially on that post.
00:06:38
Speaker 1: Can I can I say is it fair to okay? The picture is one thing is the caption, the thing that made it worse.
00:06:44
Speaker 3: Yes, it made it worse. It was already not I would think most people. I'm sorry, but I just think most people would say, if you want to take that photo privately and capture a moment that you know was innocent and beautiful and sweet, that's great. But to actually post it and to not consider how else it could be taken, to me is where the adult part of her needed to rise above any cuteness or sweetness she saw in it, and just to acknowledge that it could be taken in another way, and she's subjecting her twelve year old son's laws.
00:07:19
Speaker 1: That's the exact thing I want to talk to you about. That's the exact thing I want to talk to about in a second.
00:07:23
Speaker 2: But go ahead.
00:07:24
Speaker 1: We should say what the caption said. When do I have right? This is as has come down?
00:07:28
Speaker 3: She took the caption down, but it's so weird what's in its place now? I told you when I went on her Instagram page, which I would love some clarification for folks who understand Instagram better than I do. Okay, but her initial, her original chosen caption was this the eldest son is the most toxic relationship of your life. Won't get it unless you have a son that makes you do things that you would never ever ever do for another man.
00:07:57
Speaker 1: What in the actual I'm not sure what she was trying to say, and I actually don't know, Rope. She has two sons, right, she does. She's a one with two sons. There's plenty of conversation about the relationship between mothers and sons, and there are plenty of women who are dating guys and have questions about the relationship between the guy they're dating and their mother.
00:08:24
Speaker 2: This is just part of it. Now, she is in this.
00:08:27
Speaker 1: She has said this, and it seemed like so much of the reaction and the feedback I got, or excuse me, not feedback I got. But stuff I saw was about this versus the picture. Yes, the picture is what it is, but I guess coupled with this caption, I guess.
00:08:43
Speaker 3: It's doubly bizarre. Babe. I ask you this. We often talk about, like putting yourself in that same situation. Can you imagine a picture of you with your mom on Instagram for the world to see, when she has hundreds of thousands of followers, How would you feel as an adult.
00:09:01
Speaker 1: And this is where the question I was saying this is going to bring up. The issue, is the problem the relationship with the son or that she put this picture out. If this happened in the background and nobody ever saw it, would you have a problem with the relationship. No, this woman had with her son.
00:09:21
Speaker 3: No. I think there are intimate moments that can be innocent and sweet, but to sell them, to have a picture to and then to promote it knowing that it could be taken in another way, and then to add a bizarre caption to it that implies something beyond it's it. It begs for further questions and follow up.
00:09:44
Speaker 1: I'm trying to give her the benefit of doubt. If she made a mistake, she overlooked, she didn't think of how it was going to be taken. She was she thought it was an innocent in a sweet, cute moment and didn't realize. Maybe she regrets it. The second guesses and now I don't know, but apparently something got to it because she took it down.
00:09:58
Speaker 2: It's strange the caption down.
00:10:00
Speaker 3: She took down the caption. She did not take down the post, which I think is interesting and Oddly, I've never seen this before. Other people might know what this is, but Instagram, when you go up to her account, underneath the photo, it just says community note written by an Instagram user. Jenny removed the caption for this post. It originally had a pedophilic statement about her son that is on her Instagram like that's on her post, and then it says original caption, your eldest son will be the most toxic guy you ever date. And it offers you an option to click on sources or more info, and then it asks you if this helped you, do you agree? I have never seen that before. It's almost as if they're treating this like they have like legal obligations to provide context for her photo and the original.
00:11:04
Speaker 2: Caption.
00:11:05
Speaker 1: There's a whole thing here. I didn't know about them, but about community notes, and yes these are you know, it's almost like Wikipedia where anybody can contribute and with verifications and whatnot. But it allows people to give context they believe to certain posts, and yes they can put them up there, and they have that community note signature.
00:11:26
Speaker 3: Babe, if you saw that somebody and it was Instagram approved referencing a photo you put up with your child as something that a pedophile would put up? Would you not immediately remove that from your profile?
00:11:41
Speaker 1: That's start to me again, this is where she I'm trying to leave space. That's all because I don't know her. I don't know that kid, I don't know that relationship. So I leave space for that. I leave space, as you know, for parenting.
00:11:55
Speaker 2: I do.
00:11:55
Speaker 1: However, Rodes, I am not crazy, and I know what I'm seeing in that picture. And I know that if you told me, if you just showed me that picture, I would say, who are those two people hooking up? And if you tell me that's a mother and a son, I will say, what the actual hell?
00:12:13
Speaker 3: And that's what everyone else who look at that photo pretty much said.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: And I get that completely. Now, then you tell me that this is what she wrote as a part of that picture, I go a doubly what.
00:12:26
Speaker 2: The hell that? I'm not denying that at all.
00:12:30
Speaker 1: I just want to not judge the lady, And yes I have questions, but if that's their relationship, but it seems like so much ropes is the caption and the fact that she put the picture out versus what her relationship might be with the son.
00:12:44
Speaker 3: But my love. People have also said reverse it. Have that be a father with his daughter.
00:12:49
Speaker 2: You get arrested, you alive, you arrest.
00:12:53
Speaker 3: There's no question Sabine so a double standard.
00:12:56
Speaker 2: Sabine's thirteen.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: We tore around, play around, poke, and he's attached at the hip to me constantly. You know that that we don't. Yeah, and even if we were messing around in some way and there was an awkward picture, you.
00:13:11
Speaker 3: Wouldn't post the picture and then say this is like a toxic girlfriend, like she made the comparison she switched it around if the photo wasn't bad enough. She made a reference beyond just a platonic moment, which where.
00:13:24
Speaker 1: Did that note come from? This one here that I'm pointing to. Where when did she post that one? Or that was some follow up?
00:13:30
Speaker 3: Yes, are we fond? So she actually was replying to folks who were messaging or leaving comments on this particular post, and she said, it's like, because I'm getting separated, because I'm not protected by the institution of marriage, I'm suddenly like a different kind of target in what I'm posting, Like this is absolutely jaw dropping. A photo of me hugging my twelve year old child is getting ridiculed, And I will argue that it's beyond just a photo of for hugging her child because of not only where they are, where how they're positioned, and the caption she put. And she has to recognize that and acknowledge this goes beyond her hugging her twelve year old child.
00:14:11
Speaker 2: Okay, that's Is it different? It is? Oh? Okay, no, no, no, I'm sorry.
00:14:15
Speaker 1: Is it different because it's a mom and a boy versus a dad and a girl.
00:14:19
Speaker 3: It's less severe. It would be significantly worse if it were reversed.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: Okay, but I mean, I got it disgusting to say this out loud, but really, folks, imagine a grown man, a old man, laying in between the legs of his thirteen year old twelve year old daughter and an embrace on a bed and posting that. Nope, now you say that out loudly. Obviously, that's ridiculous.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: I actually feel sick to my stomach thinking about it.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: Yes, but yeah, so when to your point, Robes, it is not fair to just say this is me hugging my child.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: It's beyond that. And then when you take a look at what else has happened, just this past month than May, and this is when they announced their separation. Don't know if she's going through something, but she has written an essay of vlog a.
00:15:11
Speaker 1: Blog, yes, and it's titled please Stay, I want you, I need you, Oh God, and the first line is call me old fashioned, but I only want my sons to marry women with dead mothers. Stay here. We'll explain more of this essay. Let you hear more of it. And she was just getting started with that first line.
00:15:44
Speaker 3: Welcome back, everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ, where we are discussing woo something that's actually kind of hard to talk about. We're talking about actor author Jenny Mullen. She is receiving a lot of incoming, so to speak, not only for a photo she posted with her on top of her twelve year old son in a bed, embracing with a caption about him being the most toxic relationship she'd ever have. It crossed all sorts of boundaries for a lot of folks. But then when you go back and look, just a few weeks ago, she posted an essay about her relationship with her sons and TJ. As we went to break read the first line. The title and the first line.
00:16:31
Speaker 1: And I don't think I don't think this was getting a lot of attention or this much. It happened beforehand, it has, but now people are going back and looking and do you see robes. When they made the announcement about the divorce, it.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: Was in May. I only know this all happened within weeks of one another.
00:16:46
Speaker 1: This is all brand new. What she's going through, I don't know. But this is a woman been married to this man for quite some time, eighteen years. She has two sons, and that family is breaking up three guys that have been in her house robes for the past decade plus as a unit. It's going to be broken up. I can't imagine what that feels like and what that's like, what that's like, but Robes, she is, she is talking here and this is the essay again we mentioned and this is all yes on her website, but these are some of the lines.
00:17:22
Speaker 2: At least will share of note if you will.
00:17:26
Speaker 3: And look, I would just I would just say, I want to make the full disclosure. I'm a girl mom. I'm not a boy mom. Sure that I have a brother, but I don't always Yes, he has three boys, so yeah, my sister in law is a boy mom. But I don't understand that relationship intimately because I have not had it. But look, I think a lot of women have dated men where you have a red flag raised when you see a very close relationship with their moms. Now, on one level, that's a good thing. He knows how to respect a woman, he loves a woman, he knows what it's like to put a woman up on a pedestal, like there are a lot of things that could be good about that, but there are also red flags that come with that relationship. Whereas I will never be good enough for this mom, I will always there will always be another woman in our relationship. Who do you see men going back? Who whose opinion do I value? Are my mom's or my wife?
00:18:27
Speaker 2: That's cliche, it is.
00:18:29
Speaker 3: It's a thing, right, But she is actually like validating any woman who has ever felt like her mother in law or her future mother in law was deliberately undermining her. Apparently it's a thing.
00:18:42
Speaker 1: There's some of that legit though, right, yes, but some of again, we don't know Jenny Mullen. I want to give her space for what she.
00:18:52
Speaker 3: Let people hear her. She actually said, Okay, we will start from the beginning. Call me old fashioned, but I only want my sons to marry women with dead mothers. It's my only shot at staying relevant, of seeming useful, and of winning. By comparison, having boys is a mind fuck. It builds you up only to tear you apart.
00:19:18
Speaker 2: I think that's Robes. I think that's okay, right, isn't that?
00:19:22
Speaker 3: But it is?
00:19:23
Speaker 2: But Robes.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: There's some women listening to this right now who feel that pain. It sounds extreme and she might be tongue in cheek or being a little sarcastic, a little rhetorical here, But robes with dead mothers because I don't want them to have to go through what what maybe I went through?
00:19:41
Speaker 3: Purpose She doesn't want to compete with another woman for her son's affection.
00:19:44
Speaker 1: Well, there's that, bro But that I want to leave room for there being some pain, and some genuine pain in that statement. I think it's selfish, Okay, I I that can be true as well.
00:19:55
Speaker 2: Both of those things can be true, can they not?
00:19:57
Speaker 3: They can they can? Ah, It's just it's it's I mean, look, I appreciate the honesty she said not long ago read last week. I couldn't even go to the bathroom without my kids following. They still need me to fall asleep, go to school, interpret the world, cut it up into small, digestible bites, and spoon feeded to them before seven to fifteen am each morning. We have a shorthand, a long hand, and a second language. That Jason, that's her soon to be ex still luckily doesn't understand Luckily Again, Okay, I move on. But these baby remoras, these emotional vampires, the most emotionally high maintenance men I've ever dated, are growing up and eventually I will lose them. Look, babe, I'm sorry. I want to interject here. She is viewing her children as boyfriends, as people who love her in a romantic way. I think she is. I think I think she is. I think she is unfortunately blending or merging love, which can be very different and separate and needing someone and nurturing someone is very different than having a romantic love with someone. And I feel like, in a weird way, she's combining it all together, and that's what feels icky for a lot of folks.
00:21:23
Speaker 1: Okay, soe ikey is one word, that's okay, ropes this, I'm listening to it, and I'm not taking issue with what you're saying. I am falling on the side of sympathy. I am falling on the side of pain. This sounds like a woman who is hurting in some way. I don't understand. And yes to all you're saying, and I think any counselor would tell her it's unhealthy.
00:21:50
Speaker 3: Well, I just my question is I understand it. She may be hurting. Is she hurting her sons in the process.
00:21:55
Speaker 1: Okay, that's possible, But I don't think. I don't think her heart is in the wrong place. I think something that has happened that has put her emotionally maybe in the wrong place and going about it the wrong way. There's nothing I'm saying. They say, no ropes, That's not what I'm just It sounds so sad, it sounds painful to me, babe.
00:22:20
Speaker 3: It almost sounds abusive to me.
00:22:21
Speaker 2: To the children.
00:22:23
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, I it does.
00:22:25
Speaker 1: Maybe, and maybe some therapists would take that stance and be able to get through to her that you're hurting your kids. Yes, possibly, But this is this is not a woman who has ill intent.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: I disagree. I think she has selfish intent.
00:22:39
Speaker 1: No no, I said, ill ill intent, ill intent. She is not trying to harm anybody else.
00:22:45
Speaker 2: She's not baby.
00:22:47
Speaker 1: And if she's being selfish, possibly and that's hurting her kids, possibly she doesn't want to do that because she's a mom, and I will give her that benefit of the doubt. But yes, babe, something is going on, and I just like to be open to the possibility that it is open to the possibility that give Do we extend.
00:23:08
Speaker 3: That same grace that you're giving her to a man who said these things about his daughter?
00:23:13
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, babe, we talked about two different things. You are talking about a relationship that's unique to women and boys, right, That is not the same with men and girls.
00:23:24
Speaker 3: Right?
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Were you talking about something specific?
00:23:26
Speaker 3: If you if you had a father say he was jealous of the attention his daughter gave other boys, does that feel creepy or weird?
00:23:36
Speaker 1: It is creepy, It is weird, It is inappropriate, and it is uncommon. You're talking about a common thing here with women and their boys. You're talking about this is some Can we say that out loud? This is a common occurrence, is it not? And this is something in pop culture not pop culture.
00:23:53
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think that her characterization of it is common. I think there might be moments were women might feel these things, but her putting it in these terms in this way is jarring.
00:24:05
Speaker 1: Okay, stay with me on the point that it is a common thing sometimes about an attachment mothers had to their son that goes sometimes beyond seemingly just a parent kid relationship and a loving closeness. Not inappropriate in some romantic way, but it seems to cross some line beyond that line.
00:24:31
Speaker 3: This is beyond what I would normally say, because of a hug, yeah, and posting it with the caption she did, and then putting this blog out, Yeah, I think this goes beyond I do? I do? I do? I just I think that this. I understand all of the reaction to it.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: Oh, all that I can understand. But why are we not giving this lady a little rope about a scenario that you say, is is it not?
00:25:02
Speaker 3: I think this is beyond common.
00:25:04
Speaker 1: No, no which part baby, but that she posted it because she's the shamous that.
00:25:11
Speaker 3: She know that she's saying that she wants her sons to marry women who have dead mothers. Okay, I think that's really extreme on the extreme end of this.
00:25:20
Speaker 2: Okay, babe, you're not.
00:25:21
Speaker 1: I just don't think you're giving her a fair shake, and that she's writing she's famous. She might have been tongue in cheeks, she might have been joking, but even if she's not, you're not giving her a break that there might not be a bunch of mothers out there with sons who can relate to being through an experience that they went through with their mother in laws that they don't want to happen.
00:25:44
Speaker 2: And I'm just I'm just trying.
00:25:45
Speaker 1: To give the lady a fair shake on something that you are pointing out to me is a thing.
00:25:52
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, this is just the most extreme version of it I've ever seen, That's all I mean. And I do think that. And she even talked about just watching her twelve year old text with a girl who was also twelve. She said, I could already tell my brand of toxic. She was bossing him around and using big words, and he was utterly spun. I complained to Jason that I wanted to intervene before he got hurt and that she wasn't even hotter than me. See that those are these moments right there where I'm like, that is beyond what you would normally Here, I'm saying, she's comparing her level of beauty to her twelve year old son's latest love interests.
00:26:34
Speaker 1: So what I'm saying is you've pointed out to me on shows We've watched, reality shows, we watched where women and mothers behave this way when it comes to their sons. And because we have it here with this high profile, and it's like some anomaly, but I feel this goes in line with the thing you've explained. This would be crazy to me if you haven't explained to me previously that this is this.
00:26:58
Speaker 3: Is crazy to me, like to say, and this twelve year old wasn't even hotter than me. She was comparing herself to a twelve year old girl.
00:27:06
Speaker 1: But that was the point you keep making to me in all of these arguments robes that women that have sons oftentimes do compare themselves. This woman, in my opinion, is being vulnerable and putting this out there, not showing a sickness or an illness. You don't think there's women out there that can relate to what she's saying.
00:27:29
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know. I haven't had this experience, So I don't know. I think this is beyond what I've seen Like this to me rises to another level. That's just my personal opinion and my experience.
00:27:43
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, we haven't had anybody to talk about it like this, to expose it like this, to put a picture out like this, to put a caption out like this, to have fame like this, to have a divorce. Right, I'm just saying it might be in our face, and she's talking about it in a way that most of the time we don't see. But you're the one, I swear to you, Ropes, You're the one that has pointed this out to me over the years we've been dating.
00:28:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do think that there are there are shades of gray, and this is an extreme version. That's my opinion. She also she also ends with this, today there's still little They still crawl into my sweaters and into my sheets. They still need me to open milk cartons and operate on invisible injuries. I'm still in it, but also somehow outside of it, fully aware. I am living through the longest goodbye of my life. I pray that at least one of them is gay.
00:28:35
Speaker 1: Okay, I liked their opening line or a closing line. I thought it was funny as she went for it on both of them.
00:28:43
Speaker 3: Can I also worry about like what that does to them? Are they gonna be yeah? Are they gonna feel eternal guilt like they've left their mom, They've betrayed their mom because they fell in love with another woman. Can they ever feel totally comfortable taking up with, you know, in a life with another woman and moving on from their mom that somehow they betrayed her by loving another woman, and by this essay, that does seem what it implies.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: So it's complicated. Would she feel this way? Would this be the case if she were not getting divorced all her men are leaving her. I'm just trying. I'm not a therapist, baby, but I'm trying to leave space for what is being talked about. We've dealt with divorce, we know how that feels. To make sure you want your kid to love you more, to you have the best time at your place, to have the best vacations, all these things ropes, and now these kids are being split up. My baby, I lost the man and now my baby. Where's that love? Where's that masculine love going to come from now.
00:29:47
Speaker 3: It should not come from her son's That's unhealthy.
00:29:49
Speaker 1: I'm saying that everybody agrees with you, but I'm just saying, give a little beat of sympathy to this life. Is what I'm seeing. I just don't want to dismiss her as sick or twisted or creepy or whatever else. A woman who is now going to be divorced, house is broken up after twenty years, kids are going to be who knows where and how going through that rope.
00:30:17
Speaker 2: I don't know what this woman is going through.
00:30:19
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to give give her a little space after what is, without question, Robes.
00:30:28
Speaker 2: A little creepy in the pictures it is. I'm not knocking that.
00:30:34
Speaker 1: There's zero chance Robes, if you saw a picture of me horsing around with Sabine in that exact same pose, you would text me and go, what the actual hell?
00:30:44
Speaker 3: You would never happened.
00:30:45
Speaker 2: It would never happen.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: But beyond that, but beyond that, you would never post it. You never put that caption, you never write this essay. I just think, look, I understand that everybody's going through something, and I want and literally we've been through our own moments obviously, and I think everybody has in their own way and their own moments. But what you choose to put out in the world, what you choose to write, just remember your kids are going to see it and read it. And I just think you need to be a little bit more self less in those moments. And you can write in your journal all you want, tell your therapist everything you want, put up a scrapbook for yourself to remember, and talk to your best friends. But sometimes some things are better left unsaid.
00:31:25
Speaker 1: Okay that, oh my god, we are one hundred percent that is that might be the issue Robes is maybe not the relationship with well, well, I won't say not the relationship with the sun, but I don't pretend to know that it was the posting.
00:31:40
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got friends at school, doesn't he.
00:31:42
Speaker 3: Of course he does. I'm thinking about them, and I don't know that she was. And look, I don't want to I don't want to throw that stone.
00:31:51
Speaker 2: But fair, that's fair.
00:31:52
Speaker 3: That's what I would just say as a mom who's look, we've all gone through some shit, and we've gone through some public shit and our number one goal and we didn't always do the best job but we tried to protect them above all else. I just hope her kids get that same level of protection.
00:32:06
Speaker 1: And maybe she realized she made a misstep, and we'll hear from her later.
00:32:11
Speaker 3: We shall see, but this is certainly getting a lot of attention, and we always appreciate you listening to us. I may be Robock alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to you soon.