Cheryl Burke and Kelly Bensimon talk Ghostlighting and the Quiet Divorce

00:00:13
Speaker 1: Welcome back to I Do Part two.

00:00:16
Speaker 2: It's your celebrity mentors Kelly Klaurn, Ben Simone and Cheryl Burke.

00:00:21
Speaker 1: We're back together again together. I have missed you so much.

00:00:26
Speaker 2: We have so much to talk about between jingle Ball and what's in the news.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: We just have like so so much. So let's get started.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: Let's do it.

00:00:35
Speaker 4: Where were you?

00:00:37
Speaker 3: Where was I? Yeah?

00:00:38
Speaker 1: Why were you a dingle ball?

00:00:39
Speaker 3: I was busy, too busy to go to dingle ball. You know how far jingle ball is for me? Far?

00:00:45
Speaker 1: When I missed you, I.

00:00:46
Speaker 3: Mean probably not as far as you, because you've traveled together.

00:00:50
Speaker 1: Like where is Cheryl? I have not seen?

00:00:54
Speaker 3: I hear came from New York.

00:00:55
Speaker 1: I came in from you.

00:00:57
Speaker 3: What you came in from New York?

00:00:58
Speaker 1: Exactly?

00:00:59
Speaker 3: I'm not as far as you.

00:01:00
Speaker 1: I know.

00:01:01
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter I missed you anyway. There's no like two minutes or twenty or ten hours I missed you.

00:01:06
Speaker 1: I was like, very.

00:01:06
Speaker 3: Shay, how is jingle Balls?

00:01:09
Speaker 4: Tell me jingle Balls?

00:01:11
Speaker 1: I was jingle balls?

00:01:13
Speaker 3: How was the balls a jingle Town?

00:01:18
Speaker 1: First of all, everyone is like super young.

00:01:19
Speaker 2: In case you're wondering, like all these bands, I'm like Oh my god, everyone is soper young, Like, oh, they're like my they're younger than my.

00:01:26
Speaker 3: Kids, Like stop, who cares? Age is just a number.

00:01:30
Speaker 1: I'm just they were fantastic.

00:01:31
Speaker 2: They were really everyone like everyone had like their own vibe, like all the different bands, and then it was just so great to like pods everyone like, I mean, we just had so much fun from you know, from with Susan and Kathy from The Golden Bachelor and Joan.

00:01:48
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:01:49
Speaker 2: They're so fantastic. They're just so insightful and so cool and so hot. I'm like, what is going on here with these red sparkle pants and these mini shorts? And I hung out with Dina love her so much. She's so great and obviously Jen Fessler and it's such a great time.

00:02:08
Speaker 1: It was really fun.

00:02:09
Speaker 3: There you go, did you meet anybody? Well?

00:02:12
Speaker 2: I am seeing someone done done dum?

00:02:16
Speaker 3: Where is he is he in your home?

00:02:18
Speaker 1: Now? Is he right there? I want to see him?

00:02:21
Speaker 3: Is he hiding hiding? Say more?

00:02:26
Speaker 1: He's great.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: He's fifty nine, and he's very handsome. He's got two gorgeous kids. He has a great ex wife. He's just very solid, real.

00:02:38
Speaker 1: Calm, well mannered, educated and has a job.

00:02:44
Speaker 3: Whoa, And he's got a great ex wife. That's that's not said lightly.

00:02:49
Speaker 1: She's great. That's great. So you met the ex.

00:02:52
Speaker 3: Wife, you met the kids already?

00:02:54
Speaker 4: When did this happen?

00:02:55
Speaker 1: And I met her? Wait?

00:02:56
Speaker 3: Well, how did you guys meet? What you guys are from the beginning? This is crazy? Congratulations by the way, this is great news.

00:03:03
Speaker 1: He's so great, he's so good. I met him in July, yes.

00:03:08
Speaker 3: Say more.

00:03:09
Speaker 1: I met him in July through my money manager.

00:03:11
Speaker 2: I was literally like, I was like, I don't know what's going on. I am like so freaked out, Like my world is like totally upside down, like what is going on with me? And she's like it's so weird. I like with this really good friend of mine and you know, he would.

00:03:26
Speaker 1: Love to meet you. And I was like, are you like what come on? Like they don't want to meet me.

00:03:31
Speaker 2: They're gonna be like, oh my god, she's a housewife, she's a model.

00:03:35
Speaker 1: She's stupid. I'm like a person says that I'm a housewife and the model, I'm stupid. I'm gonna like, I don't know what I mean. You're not.

00:03:43
Speaker 3: That's not all of you, Kelly. It's just a part of.

00:03:45
Speaker 1: You, which part the stupid part of the home.

00:03:47
Speaker 3: Oh, people need to stop reading. I am dB or whatever is that's still around.

00:03:53
Speaker 1: Yes, I wonder says about this?

00:03:57
Speaker 4: Did he I loved that?

00:04:00
Speaker 3: Stay? Did he go jingle ball?

00:04:03
Speaker 1: As? He did not? He had to be in on the East Coast so he couldn't come.

00:04:08
Speaker 3: Wait, hold on to He's not in the entertainment industry, no.

00:04:12
Speaker 1: But he wanted to. I took him to Heidi Clume's Halloween party.

00:04:15
Speaker 3: Okay, miss Heidi Klum Halloween party he loved. Oh, I'm sure I have never even been to Heidi Klum's Halloween party.

00:04:24
Speaker 1: Well, if you come to New York, I will take you. We will go.

00:04:27
Speaker 3: Oh is that where it is? That's probably why. Yeah, you're like too far, not not cool enough to have someone fly me there to hide clue.

00:04:35
Speaker 1: Wait, what's big going on with your life? You are? What's going on? Where have you been? What is going on?

00:04:41
Speaker 2: You're looking more gorgeous every single day. I'm like, I'm stalking on and stuff.

00:04:44
Speaker 4: I'm like, where's my show? First of all?

00:04:46
Speaker 3: Your ballroom dancing? Can we talk about this?

00:04:49
Speaker 1: Oh? I am trying to hold on.

00:04:54
Speaker 3: I cannot believe you didn't even contact me to ask what are there any good like studios or like, you just went for it.

00:05:02
Speaker 2: So this company was like, would you ever be interested in trying to dance?

00:05:06
Speaker 1: And I'm like sure. I was like, it's called freda Stair. I was like sure, why not?

00:05:10
Speaker 4: I was like it's stair is that?

00:05:14
Speaker 1: And so? Yeah, how am I doing?

00:05:18
Speaker 3: I only saw a quick snippet from what you guys are together? But how do you? I mean, do you like it?

00:05:25
Speaker 1: Oh? It's so fun, it's super hard. I don't know. I mean honestly, when I watch you dance, I'm like, God, she's so cool. It's so easy.

00:05:32
Speaker 3: It's so hard my whole life.

00:05:35
Speaker 1: Hi, you're also amazing.

00:05:36
Speaker 2: I have the longest legs, and it's just like I'm like, whoa, here comes down.

00:05:41
Speaker 3: You got to use those legs to your advantage. Girl, you got to take advantage of those legs.

00:05:46
Speaker 1: How about there one time when I slid and I was like and I kept sliding, and then the video it kind of looks like I'm just sliding effortlessly.

00:05:53
Speaker 3: Meanwhile I'm little, You're like holding on, You're like gripping the floor. Okay, what have I been up to, well, I have been what have I been up to? I've just been really putting twenty twenty five. We're starting to like really go through the year and figure out what I'm going to be bringing into twenty twenty six versus not. But I made it to the Sephoras squad. I don't know if you've seen this footage on my Instagram, but basically it's amazing. I'm a part of I am Team Sephora over here and yeah, and I got like a really big campaign with them that's starting next year.

00:06:34
Speaker 1: Yay.

00:06:35
Speaker 3: Don't know if I could even announce it, so who knows. We'll see. And I'm literally going still through this transition, but I you know, I also got guest judge Dancing with the Stars, so that was fun to see everybody. But it really it was fun. I mean it was nice. It was one big reunion and it was so emotional for me behind the scenes, right just like leading up to it, because it's been three years, but three long years. I've spent seventeen years on that show. But it was really oddly it was I wasn't nervous when I was like when it was live, but leading up to it I was a hot mess. I was like, oh my god, what am I doing? Oh no, But then it just was so natural for me, like to be there. I don't know, it was it was nice to see everybody. This season was such an incredible season. But I'm also ready to do other things, you know.

00:07:26
Speaker 1: So what do you think?

00:07:27
Speaker 2: Do you think do you feel like things have changed on the show or do you think it's the same as it.

00:07:32
Speaker 3: Was or fan base has changed a little bit, not changed, it's just it's you know, it has a whole new fan base really, and these fans are really serious and they don't understand the history of the show, of the way it was, so they are very aggressive, these fans. You know, I definitely got my uh, I don't know. They were coming after me for not giving alex Earl a ten. But she got a nine. She got a nine. She did a great job she did, but they broke hold. Sorry it comes sticking to it.

00:08:07
Speaker 1: But yeah, I love that too.

00:08:08
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's like people, a lot of people just want to be like, Okay, we like her or where they want to say a great thing.

00:08:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I like that. You're like, no, I want you to be the best.

00:08:17
Speaker 4: I want you to it was so important.

00:08:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was import important. It is because like I when I competed, I wanted feedback because that's all we get, right, Like we really do take the judges comments to heart and when there's not any notes, but then we still get a seven or an eight, like we need information, you know, And so that was what I wanted to do that for the couples as much as possible.

00:08:38
Speaker 1: So I admire that.

00:08:40
Speaker 2: I think that's amazing, and I'm sure that she really appreciates it too, because when you're working that hard, you want you want it, like you just said, you want those notes and you want to you want to get the A.

00:08:53
Speaker 1: You know, you want to get the A.

00:08:55
Speaker 3: You just need to give us in Yeah.

00:08:57
Speaker 1: Right, I love that. I love that congratulations.

00:08:59
Speaker 2: I know that it was hard, and but you know, I mean I really appreciate for you for that. That's amazing. All right, let's get we have so much talk about me so happy to see you.

00:09:09
Speaker 3: Look, I'm so happy for you. By the way, are you in love?

00:09:14
Speaker 1: Well, so you know I've never been in love. So that's like, yeah, I told you that, no talk.

00:09:19
Speaker 3: About you could not say you've never been in love your whole life.

00:09:24
Speaker 2: I've never been in love, like what it's I mean. I've loved people. I love people, I love my kids, I love my friends, I love my family, I love people. You know, some of the people I've been in relationships with, I have a lot of love for them, but I haven't been in love. Feeling love and feeling that in love is totally different.

00:09:47
Speaker 3: Totally yeah, okay, Well do you feel.

00:09:50
Speaker 2: A very nurturing person so like it's it comes naturally for me to like want the best for people, But being in love means that they also have the best intentions.

00:10:05
Speaker 3: For me too, and that also means you have to be vulnerable. Yes, And so are you in love?

00:10:13
Speaker 2: I don't know yet, that's okay, and that's okay, Okay, I know I have I know I have a lot of feelings, Okay, of like feelings.

00:10:20
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, good feelings.

00:10:24
Speaker 2: Great feelings, yes, very consistent feelings, like I've never had this before. I've never felt I've never felt a calm I've never felt.

00:10:31
Speaker 1: Calmness from a man. I've always felt like.

00:10:35
Speaker 2: Competition or you know, so much pressure, Like I've never felt genuine calmness.

00:10:42
Speaker 3: And you and wow, this is a good sign. You trust him?

00:10:46
Speaker 1: I do.

00:10:48
Speaker 3: Do you see each other?

00:10:49
Speaker 1: I do trust him, and that's like a big fan.

00:10:51
Speaker 2: I've never trusted a guy either, So it's like I've never been in love and I've never trusted a male outside of my Wow, you know, I mean I have males that I trust, but not my.

00:11:00
Speaker 3: Kind of like it, not in an intimate way, in an intimate relationship. Yeah. So twenty twenty six is gonna be a big year for you. Big year, big year, big wedding, and I'll be teaching your first dance. Thank you nobody.

00:11:16
Speaker 1: It's gonna be.

00:11:16
Speaker 3: Like watch done my watch. Okay, today, folks, we're gonna chat about divorce trends, things that we're seeing in the headlines, as well as some celeb Chapter two related news. So should we start with this new term? I I definitely have gone through it, but I never heard of the word ghost lighting? Have you?

00:11:43
Speaker 1: I have?

00:11:44
Speaker 3: So the Washington Post they did an article on ghost lighting and other subtle red flags you should look out for. So do you want to talk to us Kelly about your experience and what it is exactly?

00:11:56
Speaker 2: So, according to the Washington Post, ghost lighting is a mixture of ghosting and gas lighting, so it's this double whammy. And yeah, I dated a guy who, like, on a Friday night at like eight point thirty, we'd be like sitting there doing whatever, like I don't know, having' gosp of wine or whatever, and all of a sudden, his switch would flip and he would go crazy and like start screaming and yelling and you do this, and you do that and.

00:12:28
Speaker 1: Then just disappear.

00:12:30
Speaker 2: And then on Tuesday he would just like randomly walk in and be like, what's for lunch?

00:12:34
Speaker 3: And yeah, I'd be like, not you, And then would you gaslight yourself?

00:12:40
Speaker 1: You know?

00:12:41
Speaker 2: I in my defense, I had so much going on in my own life with my kids and work that when he would do that, I would kind of just be like, like, he's clearly cheating or he's clearly doing whatever.

00:12:56
Speaker 3: And was that the case?

00:12:57
Speaker 2: Yes, of course he was. I mean he said, he's always like, I've never cheated on you. I'm like sure, So why would you get mad at me on a Friday night eight o'clock because you had other plans?

00:13:08
Speaker 3: And it was it like every Fridays, the clock like clockwork. You know, I actually have more than one experience with this. And and I was actually talking to my therapist earlier today and I knew we were going to talk about this, so I asked her. I was like, do have you ever heard of this? And she's like, I've never heard of the term ghostiding, but I definitely yes. This is something that so many people experience, including you, Cheryl. You know, like where basically, you know, it's just a sign of not like of them, basically like, let's go out and then not hearing from that person for god knows how long, like even up to a week, and then I would I would be the person that was that that was happening too, And then I would freak out and be like, wait, we just had a beautiful night together, Like what just happened? Why am I not hearing back from this person? And basically it says, you know, this article says more about ghost lighting. If you're in a situationship, basically your partner just keeps things very vague, not because they want out, but because they fear being in. And it just gives like so many different feelings of uncertainty and how you know, one person may be led on, but then at the same time things could be just going great, like I could be telling my whole life story and then realize, wait, this person has said nothing about their own lives. And that is definitely something I've experienced almost in every I would say, the last few people that I was in a relationship with.

00:14:42
Speaker 2: So you're being vulnerable and you're opening yourself up and they're just.

00:14:46
Speaker 3: Like I tend to do that. I really like when I'm with anyone, you know, I don't have anything to hide, so yes, when you ask me questions about myself, I'm going to answer them like if there's no I don't know. I find it weird when you don't write, like when you dance around the quest when we're just trying to get to know each other. Mind you don't have to tell your whole life story, but like some things, you know, would be nice just to get to know each other. But I have definitely felt like one foot was out, one foot was in in a way, and it was like very hard to not pin them down, but just to like have some sort of certainty on anything, Like it was just very much about him wanting to know about me, but then there was nothing reciprocated.

00:15:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that like just just in my experience, the guys that have done this to me, I mean, I just feel like these guys, it's not that they're like so, I mean, it's not that they're players. I just feel like they're like you're just out there like fishing and trying to meet people and seeing who's going to stick right, you know, they're like again, like we were talking about before, it's like when you're a well known person, they're like, oh, you're well known, so they kind of treat you in a way that they think is like going to put them like a give them, you know, the upper hand, and they're like if you're not nice to me, like I'm not going to sit here and wait for you, I'll just you know, go and be with my friends or stay at home and like just actually relaxed for a little bit.

00:16:12
Speaker 1: Like I don't I just that used to that I could. I can see right through it.

00:16:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's also confusing because they're like maybe they're just really nice people, but they can't commit and that has nothing to do with us, right, that has everything to do with them. But like when you have already been vulnerable, like in my case, if I've already been vulnerable and whatever that may be, whether it's intimacy or or just talking about my life, and it's just like it's so one sided. It's just not balanced.

00:16:39
Speaker 2: I think that one thing that happens is that these guys are or you know, whatever relationship.

00:16:45
Speaker 1: You're in and this happens.

00:16:47
Speaker 2: I think that A it's control and B they are fishing around and.

00:16:56
Speaker 1: They're just kind of you know, they're just kind of there. They think they see it all.

00:17:00
Speaker 2: It's just like talking like, oh I didn't, I sorry, I got, I got. Didn't talk to you for you know, two weeks.

00:17:05
Speaker 1: It's like what and.

00:17:06
Speaker 3: These are men we're talking about. We're not talking about place.

00:17:09
Speaker 2: I had a guy I went I went out with a guy and he told me, was like, oh yeah, he's like he's like the last girl girl.

00:17:14
Speaker 1: I went out with. I didn't talk to her for two weeks after our date.

00:17:17
Speaker 4: I was like, what why why?

00:17:20
Speaker 3: I'm like, that's Do you think it's because they're so scared of like confrontation or they just want to play games.

00:17:25
Speaker 2: I think they want to play games, and I think that they're scared of confrontation. And I just think that there's like it's like, honestly, the fish, the fishing out there is just so big, and it's just like there's so many different people of all different ages that are really attractive and really interesting and they're just available, and like why on earth would you tie yourself down with one person when you could be out with two or three a night, or you know what.

00:17:49
Speaker 3: And also the gaslighting part of it, Like in my case, I started to question if my expectations were too high, if I was just going like it would always be my doing. I always felt like it was maybe I came out on too aggressive, or maybe I was too love you, like I don't know. But that's where the gas lighting part of it came in in my case.

00:18:07
Speaker 2: Which I think is like an awful thing in itself, Like I don't want to be with someone who is trying to make me insecure so makes them feel better. It's like, let's like someone saying, meet something mean to you. I'm like, no, no, this is not no.

00:18:21
Speaker 1: I already was on that television show it's called Housewives. I don't bring them down.

00:18:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh I know, I get it, and it sucks, it does. It sucks, But I wish I would have known or even if I did, I think it still would have sucked. But like the fact that it's just never it's not that it's not our fault, right, like the gas lighting part, I could have maybe not really had that negative self talk towards myself. But I'm still currently working on it. I mean it's a thing for me in general.

00:18:47
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of if you're having those negative self feelings, Like literally, like before I met I can't say his name, Before I met the guy.

00:18:57
Speaker 3: That just give me a social Security number, she I was like, I would find everything. Oh I should have been I should have been a private I would have been really good at it.

00:19:07
Speaker 1: I love that.

00:19:08
Speaker 2: But before I was, I was dating him, I just like I just felt like all these guys were just like they were just all they were using me too.

00:19:15
Speaker 1: They would like go on a date and I felt like they'd be like I just.

00:19:17
Speaker 2: Guess what I went on a date with, Like if then they were using me as like chum.

00:19:21
Speaker 3: Like other conversation starters. Yes, we talk about quiet divorce. Have you ever gone? Do you know what this is? Like what a quiet divorce is?

00:19:42
Speaker 1: So let's talk about it.

00:19:43
Speaker 2: Let's quiet divorce is a kind of term that blows up online because people recognize themselves in it before they're ready to admit it out loud. That's what happened to me with my with my ex husband, we were not together. We were a part all the time, and we were were divorced, but we were together.

00:20:04
Speaker 1: Right and so.

00:20:06
Speaker 4: But by keeping separate rooms.

00:20:08
Speaker 1: We were sleeping in. Yeah, he wasn't even in New York.

00:20:10
Speaker 4: He was going to travel all the time.

00:20:13
Speaker 2: But study finds recently highlighted the trend calling attention to her breakup that doesn't kick the door so much as tiptoes into the room and sits on your chest. O God. It describes a slow erosion of intimacy inside relationships that may not be alarming from the outside but feel hollow.

00:20:31
Speaker 1: In a day to day.

00:20:33
Speaker 3: Oh have you ever heard of John Gotman?

00:20:37
Speaker 1: That's heartbreaking. You're just gonna just go on. That's hard.

00:20:40
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to continue. But have you heard of the Gotmans before? No?

00:20:44
Speaker 4: I have not.

00:20:45
Speaker 3: Oh John Gotman and his wife I forgot her name, but they when I was going through my relationship and I divorced, I studied these two because they basically have done decades and decades of research on just patterns when it comes to married couples, and basically, John Gotman's research shows that relationships often unravel long before the first big fight. The early warning signs usually aren't dramatic. They show up in ignored comments, half hearted listening, and small bids for connection that are met with a shrug. A funny text doesn't even get a reaction, a story gets interrupted, A partner points out a cool bird or a weird cloud and gets nothing back. One moment doesn't mean much, but over time, those small misses create emotional distance that's much harder to repair than any argument. So basically, they followed a few couples the Gotmins for like many many years, for nearly a decade, and they found that the ones who reported more boredom early on were less satisfied later, partly because feeling stagnant made them less likely to seek out shared experiences that kept the relationship feeling alive. It's so fascinating, right, and I definitely can relate to this, not just in marriage but also in just relationships, Like there is a point where and this was when I started getting nervous and scared where either I would just break it off because I was scared that I was going to be cheated on or it would just happen naturally, right, Like where you start to like kind of feel complacent in a way and you don't know what to do and everything, or if you even hold it out even further, you start to feel disgusted with each other, Like little things that used to be cute are no longer cute, you know.

00:22:32
Speaker 1: So like let's talk about boredom, Like what are your what you know, have you ever been in a relationship where you were where you had boredom?

00:22:40
Speaker 3: I mean, I think the boredom stops when the communication, or the boredom starts when the communication stops and when somebody's hiding something from you, you know your partner is because you're no longer it's not, it's just not. You have to work on it the relationship. When it comes to being bored you know what's the opposite of that, It's like, how do you make things and exciting again for the two of you? This is a work, This is a it's work, Like it's not going to just happen naturally like it does when you first met, Like the honeymoon phase is over right.

00:23:09
Speaker 2: But I also I like this, this idea of but when a partner points out a cool bird, I mean, that is such a simple, simple thought. And what's crazy about it is that we're inundated with our you know, our slack our you know, text, dms, Instagram, emails, like all this stuff, conversations, zooms, meetings, drinks, children, school, like all these different things, and then all of a sudden, you come home to talk to your partner and you want to talk to them about your.

00:23:40
Speaker 1: Day, and then the relationship.

00:23:43
Speaker 2: Like you never you forget to talk about the actual relationship. And I think I think that's where, too, where the boredom sets in, because you're so disconnected.

00:23:53
Speaker 3: Well yeah, but also like if you, let's say you guys were just dating too, It's like, if you pointed out that bird, you're action would have been a lot different than it was six years later, right, right, So everyone's always on their best behavior, right the first few months.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: Well, so it's interesting because on Housewives I used to say, because these there were like fighting and arguing, I used to say, let's agree to disagree.

00:24:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, and sometimes we do have to do that.

00:24:17
Speaker 2: Right, But I am in my phase of like I want you to disagree with me, and I.

00:24:21
Speaker 3: Want you to tell you what you do want that I want that.

00:24:24
Speaker 2: I want, I want, you know, positive criticism from my partner because he is my partner, the person that I'm like going to and saying like, if you are my boyfriend, I want to.

00:24:36
Speaker 1: Be able to go to you and say, you know, it's getting real.

00:24:40
Speaker 2: I need you to tell me what your thoughts are, your actual genuine thoughts, not something that's going to make me feel better or just say something like.

00:24:47
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Kelly's always says that disagree to whatever you want.

00:24:51
Speaker 3: You want to feel like, you want to feel like you can trust him to tell you that. Trying to feel heard, Yeah, you want to feel heard and seen? Yes? Yes? And do you have you ever felt this, by the way, have you ever felt this type of yeah? No, not hurt, but like the.

00:25:06
Speaker 1: I heard, No, I've never been heard before.

00:25:09
Speaker 3: You and me both or scene I see you, I hear you. Don't worry, let me too, I see it. That's all that matters. And really what matters is if you hear and see yourself first.

00:25:21
Speaker 1: I mean I think you.

00:25:21
Speaker 2: Know, like we've talked about this my you know, my my ex husband, you know He was like you, it was like caveman. He was like, you're gonna be mine. We're gonna be the American couple, even though he's French, and that's what's gonna happen. And we're gonna have babies and you're just going to create this image and that's what's going to happen.

00:25:37
Speaker 1: Then I did, and that was.

00:25:38
Speaker 2: Great for him and my you know, this my second relationship. He was really adamant about me creating an environment for him to help his business, and I just didn't.

00:25:50
Speaker 1: Want to do that. Did you know that about Tom? Just right, someone's chump. Like I want to be someone's partner in love crime. I want them to do them. I me, and then we do.

00:26:01
Speaker 3: I just I think though nowadays, with technology, I think people's expectations of it having to be like fireworks constantly is out of control. That's not real life. And this is why I've always said movies like The Notebook, movies like any of these love stories that we all love and cry when we watch, it's dangerous. It's a dangerous message because that is not reality. And I was gullible enough to believe that I needed to find that type of love and but if you really watched the movie The Notebook, Ryan Gosling is stalking her, Like he's straight up stalking this woman and it's not healthy. But we're like, oh my god, is that your.

00:26:41
Speaker 1: Stock?

00:26:41
Speaker 3: Me too? No, you don't like we don't want that, like I promise you.

00:26:47
Speaker 2: But even like Sarah Deeseka Parker, like he sends all these emails, like thousands of emails and she like signs them in her spam and I'm like or in her whatever her like deleted emails or something, and I'm just like, no, I want someone to.

00:27:02
Speaker 3: Be like, that's crazy.

00:27:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is crazy.

00:27:05
Speaker 3: That's a scary movie.

00:27:07
Speaker 1: Yes, I totally agree.

00:27:09
Speaker 3: I mean, have you and your boyfriend boyfri can I say boyfriend? You guys are partners? Boyfriend partners? Have you guys have have you?

00:27:18
Speaker 1: Okay?

00:27:19
Speaker 3: Fine? Boyfriend?

00:27:20
Speaker 1: Boyfriend okay?

00:27:22
Speaker 3: Lover man okay fine, Oh he's more than that. Stop it, lover. That's how many man male friends do you have? I mean, no, I have boyfriend. Boyfriend is so juvenile? Okay, so so what love love partner who I'm intimate with makes it sound like not right. I can't say his name. I don't even know his name, so it doesn't matter. Have you guys gone like, do you feel like he tells you how it is the way you want him to.

00:28:02
Speaker 1: No, he does not tell me the way it is. Why he tells me the way that it should be.

00:28:08
Speaker 3: He tells me true, he doesn't back down like he does. He's straight up with you.

00:28:13
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yes, he's very very good at being super honest with me. But I also listen to what he's saying.

00:28:23
Speaker 3: You respect him a lot.

00:28:25
Speaker 4: And is it respected?

00:28:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I definitely, he definitely reciprocates.

00:28:31
Speaker 2: He's definitely very interested in what I'm doing, but not to the point where it's bad. He just wants me to be great at what I'm doing. And so I he doesn't say anything. I always have to ask for help and he you know, he includes me in what he's doing. And you know, I know a lot about his business because I worked in fashion. I mean, I didn't work in his business, but I did work in fashion, so I know a lot about his business.

00:28:54
Speaker 1: So he works in he can have a conversation with me about fashion. Yeah.

00:29:00
Speaker 3: Wait, so he works in fashion. I'm so confused. He works in we'll talk offline Okay, let's move on to my boyfriend AI. Just kidding. More couples are using AI to handle chat. I love chat. How about good old what's his name Claude? I like him or it? More couples are using AI to handle their divorce, and some couples are actually turning to chat GBPT that is and other AI tools to help navigate a divorce. Here's what local lawyers are seeing. For better and for worse. Communication can obviously be tricky during a divorce. The process emotional, the stakes are often high. Increasingly people are looking at AI basically programs like Chat, GBT and Google Gemini to help draft text I totally get it, you know, I totally get it, and emails, particularly in cases with high conflict spouses or contentious co parenting. I'm seeing a lot of people. Yeah, anyway, do you use chat GPT?

00:30:00
Speaker 1: Yes? For what?

00:30:02
Speaker 2: For a lot of things, personal work, compiling text messages, softening or hardening emails.

00:30:11
Speaker 3: Yes.

00:30:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:30:12
Speaker 3: Because I'm I'm a straight shooter, I don't have time to be sure sure And when some people like come at me for my text, like how cold I was? Like, first of all, it's a text. Second of all, you can't hear my tone like it's just because I had like one word answer. It was like, you don't know, I could be driving, like what what is this? So I will ask chat, good old chat sometimes to be like, can you have reword this for me?

00:30:38
Speaker 2: By the way, yes, exactly, I'm like, make it softer. But I think, for example, in the in the in the thought of a divorce, especially if it's contentious or co parenting, I think that's great because sometimes you need it needs to be diffused, and when you're in the heat of something, you feel like you're just gonna go after that person. But at the end of the day, there is no there's no way to win when you are two co parents.

00:31:07
Speaker 1: There is no winning.

00:31:09
Speaker 3: The The only.

00:31:11
Speaker 1: Endgame is the success of your children. So if you're arguing with a man or a woman about co parenting, you are sadly mistaken on what the actual goal is. The goal is the child, not your ego.

00:31:26
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely don't. I don't know.

00:31:28
Speaker 1: Thatt is like, I don't care about your ego.

00:31:30
Speaker 3: Well, you know, you can train chat gipt to care, you know.

00:31:35
Speaker 1: Meaning like meaning like what what Chattychi, what chat gpt is doing is it saying if it's be more aggressive about being more aggressive about pickup is saying pickup is very important. I need you to do this, you know if they know the word.

00:31:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I hear you. I have chat, GPT right makeup tutorials for me. So it's like, I'm like, wrong products, How dare you?

00:32:01
Speaker 1: So that is crazy? I mean, I think it's great.

00:32:05
Speaker 3: Divorce experts on this pod have suggested that people make a new email address that is only used to communicate with your ex, so you only open it and use it for that reason. That's smart.

00:32:17
Speaker 2: I actually with my with my ax, I told him that he could not should not text anymore and that everything has to be documented.

00:32:26
Speaker 1: Through email for several reasons.

00:32:29
Speaker 2: One because you have to go into an email, and number two you have to create an email like it's actually a different form.

00:32:38
Speaker 1: I think it's great.

00:32:39
Speaker 3: They also have divorce communication apps for that now too.

00:32:43
Speaker 4: It's great too.

00:32:44
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:32:44
Speaker 3: I wish this was around when I was just kidding.

00:32:47
Speaker 2: I wish it was because probably I would have you know, I would have verbally handled thing, communicated things in a different way.

00:32:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think people who are anti AI need to honestly, maybe kind of be a little bit more open to it because I'm telling you, though we may not like it, or though they may not like it, look it's happening, right. We cannot change this. AI is happening in front of our lot, in front of us, and it's going to affect all of us if we don't know what the hell we're doing in ten years from now and AI is ruling the world. I think it's only to our benefit to educate ourselves on how this works, because, yes, can it be used in a way where it may not be ethically you know, something that people want to get behind maybe, but there's also positives to this as well. And I think that instead of looking at like, oh AI is taking my job or whatever it is, it's like we're gonna have to learn how to work with AI. So we're gonna have to do it at some point, and you don't want to feel behind.

00:33:46
Speaker 1: And I think it's just like having that tool on your tool belt, you know what I mean, You're not going to use a screwdriver when you need a hammer.

00:33:52
Speaker 3: Like hey, it's like it's when like the laptop came out, it was like or like.

00:33:59
Speaker 1: Yes, I know, I'm not using that. I'm not using that.

00:34:01
Speaker 3: Oh okay, nice exactly exactly, So I think it's only I think it's what it's only beneficial to everybody. Let's talk about Blake and Gwen. Shall we?

00:34:20
Speaker 1: Yes? Please?

00:34:22
Speaker 2: So Blake and Gwen, they're solid despite divorced speculation. I love how everyone has is like it's conscious uncoupling. They're solid. Everyone has like a word that they're using to define whatever it is is going on.

00:34:36
Speaker 1: I love them.

00:34:37
Speaker 2: So they're heading into the holiday season as a united front, despite the rumors suggested otherwise. Shelton is forty nine and Stefani is fifty six.

00:34:44
Speaker 1: She looks fantastic. Wait really, I know I said that too. I was like, oh my gosh, she looks fantastic.

00:34:51
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't.

00:34:55
Speaker 1: She's a year younger than me. She looks unbelievable.

00:34:57
Speaker 3: I believe it.

00:34:58
Speaker 2: She's incredible, incredible, it's phenomenal. And he's also a smoke show. So they're both like.

00:35:06
Speaker 4: Fifty.

00:35:07
Speaker 3: I am shocked.

00:35:08
Speaker 1: I know she's gorgeous. I don't know.

00:35:11
Speaker 3: I guess I've never thought about her and her age, just like.

00:35:14
Speaker 1: Either No, she's been around forever, and I was just like, how old, is she.

00:35:17
Speaker 3: I wish her makeup line was a little better though.

00:35:20
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, So she's winding down a busy twenty twenty five together and we'll support each other through an even busier twenty twenty six.

00:35:31
Speaker 1: So she said, there's no split to the removers.

00:35:33
Speaker 2: But here's the situation, and we both know this. When you are with when you're partnered up with someone in an intimate relationship that has a highest stressful job like.

00:35:46
Speaker 1: You do, it's very very very difficult. Okay, I mean you know that.

00:35:54
Speaker 3: I mean, I know relationships are difficult.

00:35:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, so and then you add the dynamic of like your work.

00:36:00
Speaker 3: In addition, I just think people need to mind their own business. I mean, there you go for real, like who started? I mean, even if they're not okay, like they owe us nothing.

00:36:10
Speaker 1: True story, they don't. But I also think that it's a very it's very very difficult.

00:36:15
Speaker 3: It is difficult. It is difficult, but I also believe it can be as long as the communication again is still intact. I mean, clearly they love each other, and I mean I just saw a picture of them like pushing some cart like they were a grocery store. They seems great. But like you never know, you know, but.

00:36:34
Speaker 1: They go to the grocery store exactly.

00:36:37
Speaker 3: I don't even go to the grocery store. I would ducked. I'm like, whoa there, Nelly.

00:36:42
Speaker 1: Well they're Nelly.

00:36:43
Speaker 2: No, they're I mean, they're both pro professional, they know exactly, you know, how to navigate.

00:36:49
Speaker 1: Their lives and not worried about I don't me neither. I love them. I think they're fantastic.

00:36:55
Speaker 3: Okay, So I don't know if you know this, but I danced with Jack Osborn do you do?

00:36:58
Speaker 4: You know that?

00:37:00
Speaker 3: So I became very you know, I still am, I mean, a longtime friend of mine, and I have such a soft spot whenever anyone asks me who my favorite partner or partners were, and he's definitely up there. And I just the whole family. Really, it was really sad when Ozzie passed for me. It was because, you know, I spent Christmas with them in London one one year, and God that they were such a tight knit family. I mean they still are, obviously, they're all so close to one another, and you know, Ozzie was a legend, and it was just so it's just so sad, and to see them the you know, just feel so sad and to see even Kelly, Kelly danced on Dancing with the Stars as well, like before Jack did many years prior to Jack. But you know, it's just really shitty with what's going on right now with people attacking Kelly for her appearance. And I'm not saying I've gone through the same, but I went through something similar and I still am. I mean, there's so many nick, so many women, and it is so she's so right, like so many women that are just coming at other women for their appearance.

00:38:18
Speaker 1: Did you see did you see the video?

00:38:20
Speaker 2: I mean it's just like, first of all, I mean it's just I mean, the way that she articulates it is just like devastating.

00:38:30
Speaker 1: I mean I can't. I mean, I mean, I know how nasty fans can be.

00:38:35
Speaker 3: No, but it's not just fans. It's like people and in same with me, And it's still happening. Like on TikTok, their engagement will go up by a thousand percent if they do a whole video on like my the way I used to look versus the way I look now, Like I was just showing my friend. I think it was like just three days ago, like it is insanity. I've never seen anything like it. Their engagement is higher than mine. And it's like and there's or saying that they're doctors. I don't know if they are. They're dressed like surgeons, talking about what I did to my face, like actually going step by step with a laser and pointing to what I used to look like in two thousand and six versus now in twenty twenty five with like a surgeon hat on, and and it's shocking. It's just shocking. And people are getting on this bandwagon. And social media is so great in many ways, but this, I have to say, just makes it for me. I don't feel safe. I'm not as active on TikTok anymore because of it.

00:39:39
Speaker 1: That's awful.

00:39:40
Speaker 2: I mean, that's such a good medium for you, and that's terrible that they use horrible.

00:39:43
Speaker 4: It's terrible.

00:39:44
Speaker 2: But I mean I also I lost my father. I mean, they are they do. They have this beautiful, beautiful family. They when they were in an event like you see like at least two or three of them are at the event as well.

00:39:57
Speaker 1: They are just they're just a spectacular family and lost people.

00:40:02
Speaker 2: You cannot judge how people are going to process loss. And I don't even, I don't even. I'm just surprised that she's out working. I mean, I'm I'm I harold.

00:40:16
Speaker 1: Her for it.

00:40:17
Speaker 3: I mean it's probably helping her though, to stay busy, right right, Also like my when my father died as well, Like I don't know, I don't even know if I'm done grieving, Like you just don't know. Grief is not on anybody's timeline. We don't have any control over it, and people are going to handle it differently, period.

00:40:34
Speaker 1: I mean, I could not agree more.

00:40:36
Speaker 2: I Mean, one of the things that I thought was so beautiful is just what he said, kiss me and hug me tight. I mean, I have never been in I mean, I'm I have these feelings for my new boyfriend.

00:40:50
Speaker 1: Oh you want so?

00:40:51
Speaker 2: Sharon Osborne reveals Ozzy Osbourne's final words to her before before his death kiss me.

00:40:59
Speaker 1: And hugged me tight.

00:41:01
Speaker 2: I have never had a relationship with a man like that where I thought that that's how that's how much he loved me.

00:41:09
Speaker 1: I mean literally getting emotional. I mean, it's just such a it's such beautiful.

00:41:12
Speaker 3: And they've gone through so many ups and downs, right, so.

00:41:15
Speaker 2: Many and so many iterations of their family and their life, and I mean, it just it's just been like this real like roller coaster and it's just I mean, I just it's.

00:41:27
Speaker 3: And obviously yeah and hugged me time, and obviously like Sharon, where we all just have so much love for the Osborne's. But you know, I'm I personally am wishing Sharon the best, you know, because she's gonna she's stepping into her chapter two though she may not it may be hard to see that, you know for now, but it's like it's so I don't know, I think he made such a huge impact. The whole family did remember MTV days when they did to Osborne's, That's who I thought when they told me I was dancing with Jack. That's who I thought I was dancing with. You're like, no, and and I have to tell you Jack has made you know, he has definitely been I would say a mentor in a way when I was going through my sobriety because he's been sober for so many years as well, and like he's such a good person, which means that he has been raised, you know, in a great family, and like they're all just so like that's family they're just there for each other. Oh my god, like them.

00:42:35
Speaker 2: But you know, it's interesting because it's like she said, you know, if only I had told him I loved him more, Like, oh, I mean you know, so it's like we just have to be so respect.

00:42:50
Speaker 3: I knew that. I mean, they there's no way Ozzie didn't know that though, Like there's you know, there's just been that they've been through so much together and they were never going to leave for each other ever.

00:43:01
Speaker 2: No, Oh my god, all right, Candy Candy Burrows a strange husband, Todd Tucker, sends a message of support amid the divorce. So Candy, her empire keeps on growing and her ex Todd couldn't be.

00:43:18
Speaker 3: Did I wait?

00:43:20
Speaker 4: No, when I love her?

00:43:22
Speaker 1: I met her at Brava Con. It's it's recent. I met her at Brava Con and she is fantastic.

00:43:28
Speaker 2: I was in the elevator with her and I was like, whoa, She's like Kelly on my Candy.

00:43:34
Speaker 1: She's like, how are you. I'm like I'm well. It was like, was like, I don't what to say to her.

00:43:40
Speaker 4: Is she amazing? I mean, I'm very she.

00:43:43
Speaker 1: Has incredible presence. She's very cool. Oh, she's gonna Dancing with the Stars.

00:43:49
Speaker 3: No, she should, she should.

00:43:50
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she's fantastic.

00:43:54
Speaker 2: So yeah, I just think that's really incredible that on an Instagram post he shares clip of Candy and he's like, he's, well, who's going to make her debut in the Jukebox Music musical December eleventh, belting Pink song Perfect, And he just says, good job, Candy.

00:44:14
Speaker 3: He's still supportive. He's still very supportive of her, even they both seem to be it was amicable and assuming the divorce.

00:44:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:44:23
Speaker 2: Last month, the Grammy winner announced that she intended to seek a divorce from Todd, whom she shares children Ace nine and Blaze six, explaining that she was stepping into a new chapter.

00:44:33
Speaker 1: It's a difficult.

00:44:33
Speaker 2: Emotional time, she said in the statement to people at the time, but my focus remains on protecting my peace, being the best mother I can be and do, and co parenting with.

00:44:42
Speaker 1: Love and respect. Candy has also been candid about her personal toll.

00:44:46
Speaker 2: Breakup has taken, admitting that she's felt emotionally broken in the wake of.

00:44:50
Speaker 4: The spill, which is a normal split.

00:44:52
Speaker 1: Wake of the split, I mean, of course.

00:44:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it also doesn't seem like they hate each other either.

00:44:59
Speaker 1: No, but I mean sometimes you know when you know it's not right.

00:45:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it takes a lot of courage.

00:45:05
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I.

00:45:07
Speaker 2: Told you my story. I was just like, I can't do this. I mean, maybe I was not as mature in handling you know how I felt about it. Yeah, I just knew that it was not right for me. So I admired them for being mature exactly exactly. And you know, sending love because this is not fun obviously and it's hard. But they have kids involved, which I don't have any experiences, but you do. But yeah, I think it's important they.

00:45:38
Speaker 1: Keep the peace. They do, they keep the peace.

00:45:41
Speaker 3: Well that was jam Pack, huh happening? So much happening in the world of chapter two. I feel like I've one chapter seven.

00:45:53
Speaker 2: I know there is a lot, So I have you been struggling to navigate.

00:45:57
Speaker 1: Your Chapter two? Call us our email us.

00:45:59
Speaker 2: All the is in the show notes and we are here to help follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast I do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast or falling in love.

00:46:12
Speaker 1: Is the main objective or is it? I'd love saying

00:46:15
Speaker 3: That, and I love that you say it, and I love my question at the end, or is it