Cancer, Crying and the Country isn't for Carrie with Evan Ross Katz... (S4 E9 "Sex and the Country")

00:00:01
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are you a Charlotte. You guys, we've just been chatting up the storm and missed some good things because we have the incredible Evan rosscats so exciting. I've been writing you on for a long time. We chext on Instagram sometimes and he's been so sweetly like, yes, call me, So finally it has worked out. Thank you.

00:00:25
Speaker 2: I'm a fan not only of Sex and the City and in just like that, but I'm a huge fan of this podcast. So I feel like I'm in like the belly of the beast that I love so much. Thank you.

00:00:34
Speaker 1: I feel like you are a pioneer. And as we were briefly talking about, we need to discuss like, I'm so fascinated we are in the wild wellblust of podcasting and you have just gotten this big Netflix deal and I need to hear all about it. Is it shut Up Evan or is it the Rewatch or is it both? And what's happening?

00:00:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's a new iteration of my previous podcast, shut Up Evan, and it's kind of like an expanded version. So it's now going to be two times a week. Wow, one episode is going to be a traditional long form interview with a celebrity, as it's existed for years, right, the new version is a panel show with a rotating panel of three celebrities, pop culture experts, comedians, New Yorkers, et cetera, talking about the week in pop culture. So we'll pick like five topics for instance, like this week we talked about Lena Dunnam's famesick and Coachella and all the things that are happening cool. And then we'll pick like some shows I love on the spectrum that we're going to talk about, And it's just three panelists in myself gabbing about pop culture.

00:01:29
Speaker 1: When you're recording, are you filming it differently knowing it's going to be a Netflix? How does that work?

00:01:36
Speaker 2: I think in general there's a cognizance. And this is not even just because of the Netflix, but also just in terms of, like, you know, we're altering our approach to how we do things in real time, and we're you know, reacting to the culture. I think that I used to have a more critical lens in general around how I viewed things, because that's just my brain. I have a little bit of a negative brain where when I watch something, I'm like, here are the four things that didn't work, And then I'll watch it again and I'll start to see, Okay, the thing I thought didn't work was actually a choice that I actually think improves upon. This makes this other thing makes sense. I love that. So as such, I think my approach now is to be a little bit more gentler and to consider less how I feel about it and more what do I think this person, whether it be the artist or the director, what do I think they were trying to say? Right?

00:02:20
Speaker 1: Well, that's an amazing level of introspection in terms of your opinion, which I think is so powerful and needed out there in the cultural conversation. Thank you, because I feel like with social media, which obviously when we started making Second City, there was no social media. There was not even email, as we come to in this particular season, which I have never laughed so hard. I do not remember these things. I know intellectually as a person that this didn't exist, and then it did. But like when Carrie tries to make her first email, which is like two episodes ago, it was like so funny. So is this huge change? Obviously in so many ways and obviously affecting your career and my career, but also affecting how people watch television and film.

00:03:01
Speaker 2: Yes, and the kind.

00:03:02
Speaker 1: Of immediateness of being able to go onto your own platform because everyone has one, and saying your first thoughts, and I feel like the negative thoughts somehow how has more power absolutely, And what do you make of that?

00:03:16
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting because I back in the day when I used to start posting, I didn't sort of realize the power of negativity because again, they were negative thoughts that were in my mind. So in my head, I'm just espousing my beliefs, right, I didn't view it as sort of adding to a tox successful that was forming, whereas now I think part of this is just getting older and having a better understanding of the world, is being bigger than just your bubble. But as such, I started to realize that my negativity, like created more negativity, invited other people to weigh in or to amplify it. And so I think just as my platform got bigger, I had more of an awareness on how people with platforms of all all ILKs, have the ability, whether conscious or unconscious, to alter how other people feel about things. Right, So there might have been people who noticed something and felt not one way about it, but then you say, oh, I hated that, and they're gonna be like, oh, yeah, I hated that. You know, they would have otherwise not even give given it any consideration. So I think as such, I just am. And I also know a little bit more now about how the sauce is made and the work that goes into making these things. So even when I watch something and I think it's I'm still going to try and find the two or three things that I loved about it and try and celebrate that aspect of it, because oftentimes I know people that are affiliated affiliated with these things, and I want to prop up the work that they made, and I want things to be seen, and I recognize that even when something is not amazing, there are good things to be mine from it. So I actually see my work now as I get really excited when I don't love something, because I see my work as being trying to find within me the things that I do like about it.

00:05:00
Speaker 1: I love that and I really so deeply appreciate that that is what you want to be putting out into the world. And I think that that's something that I don't know if people realize that the whole hate watching situation is just toxic for everyone. I mean, I've had people say to me, well, look, if they're hate watching it, they're still watching it. And I get that point. I fully get that point. But I also know that all of us are just doing our best, Like we're trying so hard, and it's so hard to make anything, and yeah, sometimes it doesn't hit the way you want it to hit. This is true. This is just part of making stuff. Sometimes it's going to hit. Sometimes it's not going to hit. Even within one show, some episodes, some scenes might hit, or some episodes of us here whatever it is, right, there's so many distinctions within it, but the one thing that's always true, at least I would say ninety percent of the time, everyone's trying their hardest. Yeah, let's talk about Michael Patrick. Yes, okay, So how did you meet him originally? And I so much. You described him earlier as a mentor and I feel the same way as you know.

00:06:04
Speaker 2: Totally we met in the in between between seasons one and season two E and just like that got it. I was profiling him for I think it was l I want to say, because I freelanced for a different publications, and so we met for lunch, and I now, when I think I have a really good interaction with an actor, sometimes all think like I've made a new friend or something. And I sort of recognize now the showmanship that is an interview. So while I try and meet as close to the real as I can, I also have removed the expectation that like I am meeting the real person, I am meeting a version of the person that they are presenting.

00:06:43
Speaker 1: But isn't that always true?

00:06:44
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that is very true, right, yes, but this is uh, the stakes are a little bit higher because they're under a magnificad. Good point, but that is absolutely true. Yeah, completely. So we met then and then I asked him to come on my podcast and so we recorded that. Got to know him a little bit more in that instance. And then this is the part that's like the gray area for me. I think I got his email. Somehow we'd keep in touch a little bit. I never want to bother him. I know he's got a lot going on. And then when they announced the comeback season three, I sent him an email. That's one of my absolute favorite shows, so my mount Rushmore shows are well, I don't even know what the fourth one, but it's the vampires there, Sex and the City and the Comeback. The fourth one may be breaking bad.

00:07:24
Speaker 3: Wow.

00:07:24
Speaker 2: But obviously two MBK shows, so he's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, So anyway, reached out to him just to say how excited I was, and then when I was in LA he asked me if I would come and watch the pilot episode. The pilot the premiere of season three was like months when we just finished it fantastic, and so I went and watched it with him in a private record. It was such an honor. Yeah, and also just I Valerie as a character I have a particular reverence for which just incredible. Just being able to be in a room with MBK and then watching Valery six it was so amazingful And then from there we just kind of like kept in touch. He invites me to do the Comeback podcast with him and Lisa, which is when I got to really like spend time with him. And I've always appreciated m b K as like you know, obviously watch all of his work, really enjoyed him on the end, just like that podcast, which I feel like that was a really good window into his creative process, but just getting to spend time with him like the human being that is that you know so incredibly he is and he is celebrated, but he's not celebrated enough totally, and not just as a creative force, as just a he just as a magnetic. And I was saying to you off Mike, it's like I it's like he's part mentor to me. He also is like there's an element to him. He almost was like a father figure to me in this weird way where I just like I want to make him proud. And I said to him when we had to say goodbye after finishing the Comeback the podcasting, I was like, I'm just going to miss you so much. It was three days. There's three days of teathing, but it was as close to an experience of like working on a production as.

00:08:58
Speaker 1: I will see why I always want to go back to work. Oh, I completely rite it and just to be around everybody.

00:09:04
Speaker 2: And it's not just the work itself, which is great, it's that like he really creates an environment, yes, that you want to be on. So so I consider getting to know him in the way I have to be such a gift. And he luckily is a big voice memoir. I'm a big voice memoir. I love the sound of his voice. It's good, right, And so yeah, we've subsequently kept in touch and let a force of good.

00:09:25
Speaker 1: I agree, he's a force of good. We got to honor him in La Yes, that was so low great And it was one of those times also because he cut together the clips. They wanted it to be like a minute or something and he's like, no, I'm sorry, it's got to be longer. And it was to honor his visibility of LGBTQI, which you know, I mean, there's so much right and it was so emotional and I was so happy to be able to be there and to be in that room with so many friends and you know, people in our business who are trying to do good right, and to watch what he has put on this sh screen over the years, and just to be any kind of part of it. It's just amazing and I'm so thankful for him.

00:10:06
Speaker 2: Yeah's amazing, isn't he? Yeah?

00:10:08
Speaker 1: I know it's interesting because I think that in some ways people kind of know and then they also feel like he's like sometimes I think people feel like he's almost too powerful and like daddy overseeing. But I don't think they realize that he's really with us like I feel. At least, I think all of us feel that he's very much a powerful, powerful ally. And then for me, he is. You know, he has in many ways created me. I mean, in some ways Darren, because Darren cast me in Melrose and then in Sex and City. So of course we're always forever grateful to Darren. But Michael Patrick really saw me and created Charlotte. Charlotte grew and bloomed over these many, many many years in ways that I could never have dreamt of from the beginning. You know, I knew that she had potential, and I knew that it wasn't on the page yet, right, And when he first met me, as he said when he came on the podcast, he said to me, when he first came onto the show the first season with Darren, he said, I know what to do for Carrie. I know what to do for Miranda. I know it to Samantha. I don't know what to do for Charlotte. I don't know who that is. And thank god he hung in there, right, he hung in there and just envisioned more and more and more, and I would not have the career I have if it were not for him.

00:11:25
Speaker 2: And there's a life lesson there too, I think, which is that like giving people time in the sense of we I speak on my own behalf. I can be really quick to judge, whether it be characters on shows or people in life, to say, like, I like this person, I'm endeared to this person, don't like this person, don't have time for this person. And I think with someone like MPK giving Charlotte that op, that time necessary so that he could understand her and by proxies that you could find your way into her. Either way, Let's be clear here, Charlotte was fully realized from the jump, but it just.

00:11:56
Speaker 1: Well in me she was right, but not on the page.

00:12:01
Speaker 2: Okay, fair enough.

00:12:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, like even when you read Candas's book, she makes no sense. Fair And Candace told me she was like three people like different relations.

00:12:08
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But I think that it's like by giving people the opportunity to incubate, to really see them, to figure out the ways in which you can help them blossom. Yes, it really, it's like there's power in the long.

00:12:20
Speaker 1: Game, absolutely, and it's rare to get it.

00:12:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the other thing.

00:12:23
Speaker 1: Especially now with streaming as it is. Luckily with streaming you get to make the episodes and then drop them all at once, which is good or bad depending on how you feel about it. But back in the day, if you were on network, you know, they were looking at those numbers Monday morning and you were like in or out, you know what I mean.

00:12:38
Speaker 2: And it's funny because I think about you know, you talk about this often on this podcast, which is like really feeling like the show really fully came into itself around season three. And it's similar with Buffy, where like Buffy was it was a mid season replacement when it first premiered. Wow, the first season was all similar to how you shot the Sex and the City pilot like a year before. They shot a pilot presentation like a year earlier. Then they shot the entire first season before it ever went to air. Which is that a lot of sense in the City too. Yeah, So it's very similar. Yeah, and the show is figuring out what it was, and it wasn't until around season three with Buffy, like where it really like fully took off. Gel But it's like you had a network and you had an environment in which people were willing to say, okay, let's give this time right, not to say it's not good, but just like to fully become itself. Whereas these days there's so many times where I watch a show where I'm like, I don't love it, but I see the vision and I think, if given time to figure itself out, it could really grow into something. But this is an industry right now that doesn't have a time. It's kind of like you got to come out the gate and work. You got to know who you are, and if you don't, someone's in the wings.

00:13:44
Speaker 1: Totally, It's so true. It's really hard.

00:14:00
Speaker 2: Country.

00:14:00
Speaker 1: It's hard to get back on track. But what's cool about this. I didn't remember any of this except that they went to the country, right, and except that I had a visual of Carrie in the mud, I'd forgotten why Carrie gets in the mud. I have a visual memory, right, so I remember like unusual things, you know. I also totally forgot that this is when she wears that tiny green swirm with us. Yes, that they got century twenty one. I had no idea like all of it. I'm just like BV being when I'm watching this.

00:14:28
Speaker 2: Oh, and I just love how she does that little turn and it's like, why is she turning? She's turning because you got to see the back of that totally if.

00:14:35
Speaker 1: But this is the thing about Sarah Jessica and her physical comedy skills which are so missed because she's so effortless about them. She can do whatever she wants, like when she's in that mud and he's trying to help her up and she's slipping and it goes on and on. Is because we could watch it for a solid hour because she's a dancer. She's so beautiful and talent and interesting in her choices, even the.

00:15:02
Speaker 2: Way she maneuvers around that is it a cabin? What does he have?

00:15:06
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:15:07
Speaker 2: That is definitely again her carries lack of comfort. It's so evident in every step she takes. So it's not even what she says, it's just her physicality moving through a space that is so.

00:15:21
Speaker 1: Understand and the fact that Aiden somehow like he wants her to love it because he wants her to love him and that is a representation of him. Yes, but she doesn't like it's interesting to me, like don't they know how different they are?

00:15:37
Speaker 2: But I also think Corbett is really interesting in this episode because I totally agree with you. He wants her to love it. And also there's a he's not pushing it on her, and he's not. He doesn't feel any type of way, at least from what we're seeing in the character about her not connecting with it.

00:15:52
Speaker 1: Oh he does you think he does? Yes, that's where I see the wheels turning. That's what I meant when I see the wheels turning. Interesting. But he's covering. He's covering. He's covering because he's hoping that she's gonna love it. He's still hoping that she's going to love him, that she's really gonna love him and not that other guy. That's what's his whole thing, do you know what I mean? And at the end, that's why he's wait, is it motherboard? Motherboard? They almost like Motherboard, which is before correct. Yes, it's so interesting, right because Motherboard kind of stands on its own and this kind of stands on its own. But like they've got it's like coming to a head. Yes, right, Well.

00:16:31
Speaker 2: It's funny because we say this now knowing where everything goes, and it's funny to watch this set of episodes leading up to the Good Fight, where you're kind of like you know that it's we're ramping up toward the end of their relationship, right, But it's not as though it's like a steady decline. No, things seem really good. In fact, by the end of this episode, it's like you have this wonderful moment of compromise, right where it's like, I'm gonna come here, not as often as you might have liked, but more often than I'd like to, right, And so you're kind of like, oh, they're in a able place, much in the same way they got to that place at the end of Motherboard, where it's like here they are at the funeral, so beautiful. But that's I think why the impact of what happens later on the season has felt so much, because you felt like you were on stable ground and you felt like it was the true machinations of a relationship, which is that, yes, even though they fight and have these disagreements, yeah, ultimately both in it, right, And it's where, yeah, when you find out that where things go, I don't not despoil, right, you feel so caught off guard because you're like, oh, we've been to this place before, and surely they can restabilize.

00:17:33
Speaker 1: Well also, and I had forgotten that she goes and has dinner with Big.

00:17:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:17:38
Speaker 1: What the heck?

00:17:39
Speaker 2: Man?

00:17:41
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, you tell Aiden that you have a meeting with your editor, that you tell him when he invites you to the country because you really don't want to go. But then you actually take the train back to the city and you have dinner with your ex. This is super fascinating, it is.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: I love that about because and I'm such an ardent carried through and through, which is great, of course, But in my mind, I'm like, I see it as Carrie is so stable in her relationship with Aiden, and so sure of putting the relationship with Big in the rear view, but in her mind because it's what she's authentically feeling, because she knows that this is no longer a romance partner. She sees it because of the purity of that for her. And maybe that's a mystery, surely, as we all have in life. But in terms of I think.

00:18:27
Speaker 1: She believes that she does. Yes, that's important. Yes, No, I think she believes that because when we cut to them at dinner, she's talking about Aiden, right, yes, And I mean, you don't go to your exit, you're still in love with them, talk about your current or whatever, and then he starts talking about this actress and I'm just like gross, and I feel like that's what her face looks like too. She's just like, oh my god, who is this? And you have a lot of hope for her. I had a lot of like I'm like, this is maturity. We're growing now. Of course, I know there's a lot of things that happened later, but I can block them out because we're I'm rewatching, I'm fully in it, and I'm like, oh my god, I don't remember any of this. I had not remembered the whole actress storyline.

00:19:07
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, which we'll continue.

00:19:09
Speaker 1: I know. And I'm just so torn about it all because it's based on something in life.

00:19:15
Speaker 2: Uh huh did you know that? I didn't Okay, I.

00:19:18
Speaker 1: Don't know because there wasn't social media at the time and we didn't talk about this stuff at the time, and I need This is one of those times where I'm like, I need Michael Patrick on speed dial at all times when I'm doing the podcast so I can be like, do people know that? Because I don't think people do, and I probably shouldn't. You know, this is one of those areas of difficulty right where, like, because when I was rewatching, I was like, oh my god, this is like I forgot that he wrote this in like sometimes he would actually write things in.

00:19:45
Speaker 2: Is this like a publicly known story.

00:19:47
Speaker 1: I don't know, Evan.

00:19:49
Speaker 2: I'm so curious, so unsure.

00:19:51
Speaker 1: I'm so unsure. Yes I will, I will for sure, and you can investigate it because I don't want to get in horrific trouble fair, which I really really could. But when he's talking to her about that, I'm like, you're done, big, you need to get out. Get out. That's gross. Don't be telling her that you're going out with some actress and you're in love. Like ewa what I'm saying.

00:20:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't care if.

00:20:19
Speaker 1: She was just talking about Aden.

00:20:20
Speaker 2: But at least I think it's for the first time we're seeing his attempt to meet her where she is in Actually, it seems like trying to form whatever this friendship will be. And I gotta say I love watching Sarah Jessica calibrate the different chemistries that she has with both Chris and John in the same episode.

00:20:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's always fascin.

00:20:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you're getting to see this evolution of a Carrie who is not desperately I was gonna say, but really trying to figure out whether or not what concessions she is willing to make in this relationship. Absolutely, because I think part of the suffering of it all obviously as a SOFI in the case, the show Suffered represents something bigger than just suffering.

00:21:03
Speaker 1: Right for sure.

00:21:03
Speaker 2: And it's just Carrie and the discomforts that have been present with Aiden for quite some time.

00:21:09
Speaker 1: They are the background, yeah, Aiden.

00:21:11
Speaker 2: But it really come in fruition and how much of herself she's willing to give over. But then also we I think the audience feel this morning the character Well, what about all the concessions you made to be with big?

00:21:20
Speaker 1: Oh that's so good? See See this is also for me so interesting because as I've talked to many a girlfriend in the nineties, all the men were just difficult and withholding and jerks basically, And when you first watched the show, the beginning of the show, you know, we've got the modelizer guy who's filming himself having sex with women without consequence. Okay, like, what the hell? I remember that. I'm still like somewhat traumatized and when I talked to Canvas, I was like Candace like and She's like, oh, yeah, that was a real thing. And people would just come up and tell me. Men would just come up at parties and tell me they're you know, pretty disgusting stories.

00:22:00
Speaker 2: Whatever.

00:22:00
Speaker 1: This was normal. It cannot be overstated what we were dealing with in the nineties. And I know is my own personal self, I was always team Big because I projected onto him in the same way that she projected into him, that he was in love with her. And this is just the difficulties of being a man in our culture that you can't express yourself.

00:22:21
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? Right well, I think right now we're experiencing a little bit of like the Mandela effect when it comes to Big, because your perspective on Big was the pervasive experience of many people watching this show. I think it's really easy now to look back with a twenty twenty six yes Big and forget Yes. At that time, yes, we were it was normal.

00:22:44
Speaker 1: It was normal, Yes, And he's not even like a horrible offender exactly.

00:22:47
Speaker 2: So that's the difficult thing about I love that we look back on all these shows now and I certainly appreciate, you know, the reassessment and all of that, right, But I think what's missing often in these conversations is the critical context of how these shows were experienced at the time. In order to reflect on them, we need to recognize the reaction of fandom as it existed then, in order to bring into the conversation how it exists today.

00:23:14
Speaker 1: Well put, so well put. I was looking at my notes because I wanted to see her what's her thought, her main question that she gives for her column, and I have it here ready. Relationships, no matter how good, are inevitably a series of compromises. But how much of ourselves should we should we be willing to sacrifice for the other person before we stop being ourselves in a relationship. When does the art of compromise become compromising?

00:23:44
Speaker 2: So good, so good, good forever?

00:23:47
Speaker 1: Right, like always always, always a central question to any relationships, I believe, And this is what I love about the show, right Like, we could talk about big, we can talk about aiden, we can talk about the country, we can talk about them, but the central premise is forever.

00:24:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And also this will haunt her in her relationship with Burger as well, and as you said, this is the question that so many of us face in our relationships.

00:24:11
Speaker 1: Right time, all the time. I can't ever figure this out. This is why I'm not in a relationship other than the fact that I'm raising two children, which is its own kind of you know thing, all encompassing thing. When I had totally forgotten this. Samantha goes to the country. Yes, it has sex with a very sexy farmer.

00:24:33
Speaker 2: And the funny thing, again speaking about the economy of plot, she doesn't go to the that's the back half of the episode, So you have this whole carries already at the country, comes back to the city. Then is like, which of you girls is coming with me?

00:24:46
Speaker 1: Convinces Samantha, I'm in Connecticut trying to have sex with my man and get rightant, what on earth.

00:24:54
Speaker 2: You know he's in the bathtub with money.

00:24:55
Speaker 1: It's like, of course, Steve has testicular cancer. Oh my god, I mean it's a lot.

00:25:01
Speaker 2: Then we're treated to a Miranda Aiden scene, which are some of my favorites because we don't get a time. I always love sort of when we have the men interacting with me not there and me too, me too. I love look on him just like that when we have that Steve Carrie scene. So good, yeah, good to get Yeah. I love seeing that. So I love getting to see Aiden and Miranda together. And also I like the fact that Aiden gets to experience the Miranda that Miranda is around Carrie.

00:25:25
Speaker 1: Totally because also she doesn't think he's there, right And this is just for everyone who might not remember. So Carrie is upstairs with Aiden. Aiden's trying to convince her to come to the country, and then she goes, well, Miranda's coming to get me.

00:25:36
Speaker 2: I gotta go.

00:25:36
Speaker 1: She's trying to get out of the conversation, and then she goes, I'm just gonna go down to Miranda. Miranda buzz is on the buzzer and then Miranda goes, now I'm coming up because she doesn't know Aiden's there, right, so she's just in her Miranda, I'm gonna I've got something I got to talk about or whatever. Then she goes up and gets this very funny little monologue. She doesn't expect Aiden to be there, and then she's like, why is Steve trying to call me? And he's like, well, you should call him back, and he goes, oh, what is she is? He he's still in love with me, and he misses me because that other girlfriend. Whenever her name is gone. She goes on a little monologue, little self centered monologue, and then he goes Steve has testicular cancer, and she just like, oh god, I'm horrible, Like it's so good.

00:26:14
Speaker 2: Yes, I think some of my favorite Cynthia moments are just any like pie in the face moment and reaction shot of Miranda. Do you think it was wrong of Aiden to deliver the news to her? Because when I was rewatching this time, I was like, he starts by saying, I think you should call Steve. Steve has something he wants to tell you, right, which then understandably, Miranda's like, just tell me now. But I'm just wondering, is like that news that Steve should have delivered to Miranda?

00:26:37
Speaker 1: I mean, yes and no, I think that now I've lived life a long time, unfortunately known people who had cancer too many times to say. I do think that if you have somebody who is important to the other person who has cancer and that person's not calling them back, and it thinks that it has to do as romance, just cut to the cut to the important part, because they're going to be over there trippin' and you got to get them back back to what's important. And I love the whole I had forgotten all of the different machinations or whatever you want to call it, of her dealing with him yelling at him in the park.

00:27:15
Speaker 2: That's incredible. I it's so good. It's so great because, as is the case so often on the show, you really are able to understand both perspectives in the scene. And this is like one of those moments where I just I love Randa so much, that pragmatism and the being like, listen, this is cancer. It's serious. There is a way it is dealt with. This is black and white. You are gray. This is no time to gray, and so you need me to step in and make this right for you. And she's right, and she's right, and then at the end of the episode he appreciates.

00:27:44
Speaker 1: Which is nice. I'm so happy they got to that. I couldn't remember any of this, so I was watching like, oh God, oh god, she's yelling at him and he's got cancer and he's Steve, and so you're like, oh God, she's gonna hurt him. But then you know he hasn't asked these questions. He is like a child, right, and she needs to ask these questions. And then she goes to her law people and gets like referrals or whatever, and then he's like, now, Miranda, no, But then in the end she's right, and then she's stick, well, wait we left out when she gets some Chinese food and he's like, I'm going home because he doesn't want to be, you know, the cancer patient or whatever. But it is funny because you're like, why is Miranda acting?

00:28:18
Speaker 2: Like? And I love, I love there's so many great moments on this show of like watching Miranda acting. I mean, I think about her when she was pretending to be the flight attendant. Oh. I love when Miranda is an acting moment too. It's funny you say that because even you as the viewer, not even being a proxy of Steves, just she as the viewer, like, wait a minute, you're coming on a little strong.

00:28:35
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, You're like, he's not gonna buy that, yeah yeah yeah, back it off a bit, but she's trying, which is so sweet, so sweet.

00:28:54
Speaker 2: In this episode with Samantha. What I particularly love about this plot there are these special plot lines that occur especially in the early seasons of Sex and the City, where you're like, it's such a seemingly random plot line. Which the plot line for Samantha is that she's speaking a lot of guys and they keep saying after the fact, they keep asking what she's doing this week the weekend, and that for some reason really bothers Samantha and I just love the idea of thinking about this writer's room and where someone offered that up and they're like, that should be Samantha's story for the week, and I say that complimentary. I like that. No, I agree, it's just seemingly when you think about everything else that's going on with all these other characters, he's sort of like big story driven things. You know, we're talking about Steve's cancer and Carrie not sure about how much she can compromise around this house and stuff, right, And for Samantha, the big problem is guys are asking what she's up to this week at but.

00:29:44
Speaker 1: You know, why tell me, right, because she's about to meet Richard Yes and get into a relationship. She also tries to be in a relationship with Sonia, which goes horribly wrong, which was a horrible idea. Let's just be honest, horrible idea, But so it's in the back of her mind that she wants to try this thing that she hasn't been wanting to do. So I think that the men she's asking her whether they're doing on the weekend is relating to the fact that we're now going to shift gears. And that was something that Michael Patrick would always plan out right, like your ups and downs of your arc, you know what I'm saying. I love it, yeah, And he would sit us down and tell us beforehand, like this is what your ARC's going to be, right, which is cool.

00:30:22
Speaker 2: Well, I love too that It's like you think that Samantha is coming out to the country to sort of be there for Carrie, and that her storyline is going to be in support of Carrie because this is Sex in the City. Of course, Samantha goes on her own little side journey.

00:30:35
Speaker 1: Well, because she's Samantha. If it was Charlotte, she would have been making that pie with her totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Charlotte is in Connecticut with Bunny, who is being so sweet to her. She tries to give her an orchid, but then it goes wrong. It does because the bathtub, which is also I remember being wearing my tennis whites because I was always nervous about wearing tennis whites. Tennis skirt scare me. But I remember being up there in the greenhouse because it's so beautiful, right, such a beautiful setting and so waspy and wonderful. But I had forgotten that the bathtub scene was also in this and that He then tries to defend the bathtub scene and tells me about how Nanny raised him. The only time he saw his mother was a bath time when she told him about her day, which is fascinating.

00:31:22
Speaker 2: It is fascinating. It really You're not sure as a viewer how to feel about all of it, right, because on the one hand, you're like the obvious, this is really weird, and then he kind of gives you some contacts and you're kind of like, oh, this is sad, right, But then I sort of reverted back to sad but still weird.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: Because he's a grown up, yeah, And also because she's strange, and because she was played by Franny, who's incredible and so warm, you know. Rewatching it really lands for me, how strange, you know what I mean? Because at the time I'm loving Franny, I'm loving Kyle, you know what I mean. And I know that Charlotte's and the weirdness of it all, but that I had to work at that, you know, because really I just loved everybody, and everybody was great, and it was so much fun to have my own storyline like this with these incredible actors. You do know what I'm saying. And obviously I really wanted Charlotte to get everything she wanted. And I love Kyle and I together. It's fun to watch, you know, And I don't know what's going to happen. I didn't remember that he was going to sit me down and tell me this thing. I didn't remember any of this. It was I really enjoyed it. I didn't remember that we had sex in the in the hot house.

00:32:27
Speaker 2: You sure did. I know. It's funny. It's so easy to erase the memory of just last season and the entire storyline and his impotence, and it's like I forgot that once you moved past that you really had a blooming.

00:32:41
Speaker 1: I forgot as well. Kyle had to tell me when he came on. I was like, oh, I vaguely remember, you know what I mean, but we kissed so much from the time that he shows up. M hm, you know what I mean, Like that first episode, we're just macing mouths just all the time. So for me, it's separate, like the chemistry was always there, right, So then I and I know intellectually, yes, that we had this problem because there had to be a problem, right, And that was the plan that Michael had told me what the plan was. But then Kyle was Kyle, and so we had to amend the plans because Geez can get rid of Kyle, got to keep him as long as we can keep him. But then it was interesting because he still has issues, Like his issue is still like when I feel the urge, we've just got to go ahead. I don't care about population, I don't care about the baby. He's not He's like a kid in a way.

00:33:31
Speaker 2: But it's like to go back to like the theme of the episode of compromise, I think as a viewer, I'm thinking this behavior that we're seeing from him, it's like I can see how Charlotte can acquiesce to like make this work. He still because like the impotence thing, it's like, okay, that was rough, yeah, but once you passed that all of this kind of behavior, like the stuff even like with Bunny in the bathroom, and it's like, I can dismiss that. It's just some weird behavior of Treys chalked up to childhood stuff that I don't have to take on.

00:33:58
Speaker 1: Oh definitely, And she clearly says to him, I Am not going to be that kind of mother, absolutely, you know. So she's trying to kind of create something fresh and she's redoing the house, you know. And the Dimmers had someone tell me last week, like I every time I moved my dimmer, I think of Charlotte. I was like, why, it's because that cool shot through the chandelier. Wow. Do you know what I mean? Do you remember, Like I was like, wow, that's so cool. I don't remember doing that. It's awesome.

00:34:24
Speaker 2: Imagine your impact is touch where it's like someone nearly touches a dimmer.

00:34:28
Speaker 1: It's insane. Like I know, I know, it's luck. It's luck. It's like luck to get that part, do you know what I mean? It's luck that you don't even know that you have, Like I mean, I know at the time it was special, but you could never it's.

00:34:41
Speaker 2: You would think it would be like the big moments that you know that you can't understand. Oh of course people remember, but it's like the idea that something as innocuous as like the dimmer when.

00:34:51
Speaker 1: They know it's crazy. I love it so much. I mean, it's incredible, but that's because everyone on the team was at their top production design DP, camera operator. Like I saw a picture on because my feed serves this to me all day of Sarah in the beautiful white dress. I can't remember who made it. Outside the fountain, not the aid in time, but the big time when she goes, you know, girl, your girl is lovely, and he goes, you know, I just don't get it, and she's like, you never did. That is an incredible scene. First season and the first season two. Thank you so much. Joe Collins, who is our focus puller, is in the background wearing like a cowboy yeat or something crazy because it's like one hundred and some degrees in the summer, you know what I mean. And he went on to be like a huge DP and rightly so, like we loved him so much. Like all these people were so integral to every moment of that show.

00:35:49
Speaker 2: It has such a it's obviously it's the needle drops, it's the visual language of the show. Obviously, the costumes. There's so much, you know, it comes to mind when we're having this conversation. I love the shot at the end and with Carrie and Samantha waiting to help. Yeah, you can feel the temperature, you know what I mean. And also it's one of like, there are obviously some like canonical carry Samantha scenes, but this one is not a canon and yet I love. Yeah, they're they're just being so cute with each other, so cute. It's just something dialog and they're both at their best. They look amazing obviously, yes, yes, And it's also it does this close up shot where you can see the lights twinkling. So when I was watching it was like, wait a minute, I was like, is this a green screen? But of course it's not, and I know it's stupid. It goes to why and you literally and you see the calves and everything, and you're just like, it's already such a beautiful shot. And then to know that you know where it was filmed, and the two of them together, it's just a no.

00:36:51
Speaker 1: I agree, I agree, And I mean I think we knew that at the time, and I know that Sarah Jessica was always like there would be times in the season where either was really cold when we first started working, because we would work in like February through August, or we would be over budget and we would go inside, like the scenes would start being inside and she would go to them and she'd be like, no, we have to go back outside. We have to be on the street. It is the DNA of the show. We have to see our shoes. You can't be only in close ups. We have to see our shoes. She was so so smart, and they'd be like yes, yes, yes, and Michael Patrick would be like, yes, we have to we have to find the money. I have to get back on the street because it was so expensive, you know at the time.

00:37:30
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many shots I can think of, especially from those early seasons, where like it's an outdoor scene and you look like down deep, deep into the shot and you just see someone two blocks down crossing the street and you're just like, you know that you're not on a set. You actually see New York, New yorking, and right, yeah, I miss.

00:37:50
Speaker 1: I know it's not easy to do.

00:37:53
Speaker 2: Why right, I think that because I think it's so appreciated. The difficulty of it is worth it.

00:37:58
Speaker 1: Oh and we loved it. Yeah, I mean because when you're on a sound stage. And this is actually the reason Sara Jessica did sign onto the show. You know, people talk about how she got cold feet, which she doesn't feel like is an appropriate description. The reason that she didn't want to do with the show is because she'd done regular shows on lots and it's hard because you're in this very bubbly, like static world, like a set, you know, where you're having to kind of generate the energy, whereas when you're here you're surrounded by the energy.

00:38:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy for all of your gripes of love story. One thing I really loved about the show is that they shot on location here in New York. They shot at Indoshine, at odeon, all these places. And I know, for me as a lover and longtime New Yorker getting to see a show in twenty twenty six, that's cool around New York City. Good job. I just appreciate it.

00:38:47
Speaker 1: Good I didn't watch it. I just want to say I didn't watch it. I have like a fundamental I just don't think they should do that fair. But if they did do it, I'm glad that they shot here, and I'm glad that people who I can appreciate now that there are people who didn't really know everything and not that that was a factual telling. I'm pretty sure based on what I've seen, like maybe not everything was fact or if things were disputed or whatever. But I guess there's a whole generation of people who don't really know about it. So from that perspective, I can appreciate it. That was not my first thought when I heard about it. My first thought was like, oh, it's too soon. Please, don't you know that?

00:39:24
Speaker 2: You know?

00:39:24
Speaker 1: I feel very protective.

00:39:26
Speaker 2: I get it.

00:39:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me just explain to everyone as much as I know, which I don't know everything, and I think you know more and I want to hear all of your input. Okay, as I see it, Podcasts kind of started slowly, right like, how long have you been doing yours?

00:39:53
Speaker 2: One for five?

00:39:54
Speaker 1: Amazing? So you were you got in there at the right time at the beginning.

00:39:58
Speaker 2: Ish, I'm late.

00:40:00
Speaker 1: You think you're late. I'm definitely late.

00:40:03
Speaker 2: I think about like Mark Marin and like those people that were doing it. Yes, the good point I feel like they were like the frontiers.

00:40:12
Speaker 1: One yes, one hundred percent of forgot. Yes, that is the first generation, for sure, for sure, and genius genius level. But I at like five years ago, people offered me podcasts and I was so like, I don't know, I don't know. It was a big leap in my mind that I would somehow be just like.

00:40:30
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah.

00:40:31
Speaker 1: I mean, like as I am now doing it was a big leap, and I was scared. And also because we it was right around it was covid ish, like coming out of COVID, and we were about to go do and just like that, and doing it just like that in some ways allowed me to look back at the show. I mean, everyone wanted me to rewatch. I should say that, I didn't say that clearly. I wasn't ready to rewatch. You know, I wasn't ready. I always was afraid of living in the past, you know, like when you're known predominantly for one thing, you're just trying to live in the now and maybe create something else, but mostly just live in the now and not be somehow always back there. Right.

00:41:13
Speaker 2: Well, and let's also mention the fact it was a very different environment. Back then the water wasn't as warm. I think it was perceived by many people if you spent your time looking back at your past projects, that you suddenly became like a legacy act definitely opposed. And now that so many people are doing it, it makes it such where there's an entire environment where you can kind of look at other people and the success that they've had in this space, so the hesitation to be like by doing it. For some people it could be perceived as like you're done making your mark in a new way and instead you're putting it. It's like a stop right and you're saying, okay, I'm ready to look back.

00:41:48
Speaker 1: But that was a really intellectual version of it. Mine was just like a more emotional version of like like, for instance, I don't have a lot of pictures in my house. I have pictures of my kids, but I don't have any work pictures. Like there's some people you go to house and I'll have like portraits and whatnot a river. I don't have any of that because number one, I just want to be here now, like with my feet on the planet Earth, do you know what I mean? The only picture I have of the first show is in my closet, my own personal space, and it's the time cover that says who Needs a Husband? Because it makes me laugh. I really love it. It's adorable and so funny that we got to do that, and we didn't ask them to put that title. They just put that title like it's it's so kind of incredible to think of it. I feel like it was like two thousand and one or something like, you know, a while ago. So that makes me laugh. So it's in there because it makes me chuckle. And then I have a picture of all of us at the non premiere premiere when it was the Writer's and Actors strike in whatever year that was in my office, right, But like very little is what I'm trying to say. So just the idea of going backwards mentally and emotionally to me seems slightly dangerous, right, But it's been incredible because because number one, as I was telling you before we came in here, I don't remember this fourth season at all. It's incredible. I'm watching it like for the first time, I laugh out loud. I cried, I mean my motherboard myself, my god, it will floor you. And I remember it as being incredible. But yet when I'm watching it, I'm one hundred percent in it as a viewer, right, And that is such a gift, And I don't think it was possible for me to do before. I had always seen every episode as we were making them, right, But when you're watching them when you're making them, it's a very different. You're watching as an actor. What did I do that worked? What did I do that didn't work? What did they keep? What did they cut? What angle did they use? Which take did they There's so many things that you're learning by watching it right, you're not experiencing it so much. Right now I can fully experience it, and it's so good and I'm so happy, do you know what I mean? I thought that it was It's not that I didn't right, but it helps me understand a why people are still reacting to it all these many many years later. Also what we were saying culturally, you know, that definitely plays a part. But also there was this intensity to the fans that was slightly perplexing and a little confusing for a while, Like just the intensity with which they would like come and you know, hug us and whatnot or whatever. It was like hard to figure out. And now I really get it because the show just creates this warmth when you watch it, like like a togetherness and acceptance and non judgment and like it's such a good vibe.

00:44:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I feel like it has remarkable inertia. That's what I always think about when I'm watching Sex and the City, Like, once it begins, it's just off the races. It is exactly what he wants to do, and it gets from start to finish seamlessly.

00:44:55
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:44:55
Speaker 2: That. But also what really sends out for me and distinguishes Sex and the City from so many other shows is the plot density. Yeah, and this episode is a great example of it. It's like a remarkable in just a half hour, how much you're able to accomplish, both from a this happened and also from a character building perspective. Yeah. And so I when I look back about all the things that I love about the show, obviously there's like the performances and the costumes in all of that, But one thing that really sends out to me when I do rewatches is like, I can't believe this is the episode where one, two, three, four, five, six things all happen. Yeah, and that happens in so many episodes.

00:45:33
Speaker 1: Oh no, it's incredible. Yeah, that's oh the writing unbelievable, the writing. And we knew at the time also, right, we knew that intellectually, but also to look back because I can remember, I know, like the general right of what happened, but I don't remember when. And then like each scene is so good, You're like, oh my god, each scene is so good.

00:45:52
Speaker 2: Okay.

00:45:53
Speaker 1: So now that we've established that it's fun. It makes my job as this podcast so much fun, right yeah, because A I'm getting to relive it in a different way, and B I'm getting to share it with whoever I have on And you guys all have such kind of clear and fascinating takes on it all, you know what I mean. I mean, that's how I choose people, right that you're going to have something to say, and you've been out there saying incredibly interesting things about is for quite sometimes, so thank you, thank you.

00:46:20
Speaker 2: But I just said to it said. One thing I've loved about the journey of Are You a Charlotte, which is like own this is its own entity onto itself, is watching you experience through so many of your fantastic guests them reflecting back the things that stood out to them or moments that they learned a life lesson from something on the show. And I really understand from your perspective, when you're inside of something, I think fans have this expectation that you are going to share the memories and the core meaning is going to be the same to you. You know. It's like I wrote the oral History of Buffy and one of my big takeaways from interviewing so many of those actors is there are these moments that mean so much to people like me that were just another day on set for them. Well, they just don't remember, right, And so you have to sort of you the fan, have to untangle your the meaning of it for you and understand that it's not the meaning for them. And that doesn't make it less meaningful for you totally. But you putting yourself in this seat and having so many people reflecting that to you, I find that to be really remarkable to watch.

00:47:26
Speaker 1: Let thank you, thank you. I mean, it's sometimes really surprising what people say to really surprising and one of the things I wanted to do and I get to do this a lot of the time. Though you're you're your own entity, right, which which I love because you have this you know, you are looking at things culturally from a deeper perspective, which is exactly what I want to do here, right. But also sometimes when I have actors on, you know, I don't know what they're gonna say. It's super interesting, like Jacob who played Sam Jones, the young Sam Jones. Did you listen to that?

00:47:55
Speaker 2: We did? That one was great?

00:47:56
Speaker 1: What a trip? Like? I love that because when actors are coming on, right, we don't always get to spend enough time with him, and I never met him because I wasn't in his storyline. You don't know what's going on with them. You don't know what they remember, what their experience was. That I love to hear about that.

00:48:11
Speaker 2: The actor that you had on from Hot Child in the City.

00:48:14
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's was so fascinating.

00:48:18
Speaker 2: And also one thing you really realize is doing one guest spot on this series twenty five plus years ago, that can be a defining moment in their careers, and that can be the thing that people come up to them on the street. Despite these amazing careers so many of them have had, right being a day player on a show like this. It has such resonance.

00:48:38
Speaker 1: Right, but who knew? Like we didn't know, you know what I mean, we were just trying to find the best people. And you know, our casting people were so amazing when we were getting Broadway actors and we were getting unknowns like himself. And now he's I mean he was known in like some skate world or something whatever. What did he tell me? He had a very fascinating it, really did?

00:48:54
Speaker 2: I know? Now he's shut him down?

00:48:55
Speaker 1: Yeah right, No, I know. I mean we make an effort. We make an effort to track the people down, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes I can't get John Corbett to come on, So there's that fascinating. I know John, he's not listening, but if anyone runs into him.

00:49:12
Speaker 2: Please I'm hopeful for you.

00:49:13
Speaker 1: I think I mean away over.

00:49:16
Speaker 2: The season six premiere because he's a little cameo, or he comes back is it the season.

00:49:23
Speaker 1: See this is where I don't remember. I know he's in Morocco because he and Boat were staying six premiere.

00:49:28
Speaker 2: That's why I remember him. And that's when she first meets Wait, That's when I'm saying John can come back then or if you get to the movie, he can come back then.

00:49:35
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I'm trying, and it may take that long to talkment. It may never happen, But.

00:49:41
Speaker 2: I appreciate stubber bazilions.

00:49:43
Speaker 1: You know, it is something I have. It is something that I have that Charlotte has. People still like to ask me the things that are similar, the things that are different. We are persistent.

00:49:54
Speaker 2: Yes, I know, but.

00:49:57
Speaker 1: He's way stubborn. And that is funny too, because like, obviously I know these people right, So obviously when I'm looking back to and watching their work, they're so good because sometimes, I mean I can see their wheels turning, like John, especially because Aiden is is interesting and oh he complicated and in this particular episode Sex in the Country, which in my mind is one of the most fascinating episodes because I remember, like, you're doing what you're going where, like it was totally different than anything we had done at all.

00:50:33
Speaker 2: Correct.

00:50:34
Speaker 1: I think of you as the expert, So tell me if I'm okay. And I remember, Sir, Jessica lost her voice, which I think is the only time I can remember this happened. I was always losing my voice because I have allergies and we were always having to be out in the middle of the night, like shouting. Michael Patrick wants everything perfect and loud, right like you're on stage even though you're micd She went, you know, to wherever they went to film it, Suffern whatever and the squirrel. She has this we'll at the squirrel twice and then yell at Aden for a while. Totally lost her voice, like nothing would come out the next day, and it was such a panic because she never misses work. She's always one hundred percent. She could have a fever and she's still gonna hit those marks and say her kids like she is hardcore. It was she was. It was a horrible drama for her that she couldn't speak, you know. So that's what I remember, right, And also like they went away, you know, and all of us, I think we were in town. I think this would have been when we would have are at a certain point in production, we would have two units going, right, so we would have we would crossboard, always having two episodes at once because we needed to cross board the locations. But that was totally normal for us, right, like everyone always thinks it's we're totally normal, because obviously it's you're seeing the thirty minutes or twenty five minutes, but it's more like a movie for us when we're filming, right, because there were so many scenes that were so short and then woven together by the voiceover, right, So one director would be doing two with one DP, and then another director with a different DP would probably be overlapping because we were behind, because we were always behind, because we were overla ambitious, which is our DNA.

00:52:13
Speaker 2: I mean, it's remarkable, it's so funny. It's to learn from this podcast and from so many interviews that you all have done the rigor of making the show, and you look at the television landscape today, six episode seasons, eight episode seasons, so you look at what you all were doing, the herculean effort and that attempt at perfection and how you so often were able to land it. Thank you for me.

00:52:35
Speaker 1: At the time, I remember that we have this pressure, and I don't know if it was our pressure that we applied, or just like a cultural pressure where we felt like we didn't want to tell everyone all these things right that we would just like people would always say and they still say, like, wasn't it fun? And you'd be like, yes, I mean it was, but it was very hard work. I mean it was all night till the sun came up. We would only stop shooting because we could not shoot exteriors that were supposed to be night when the sun is rising. That is the only reason that we would stop.

00:53:08
Speaker 2: You know.

00:53:08
Speaker 1: It was on and on and on like that. But then so that was Friday ando Saturday. But then Monday morning you had to start at five, so you had to somehow turn your sleep around. And everyone be like, what are you doing this weekend? And different people in your lives would be like, let's go to the theater, let's do this, let's do that. I had a special pair of shoes that was a half a size bigger that I would wear on the weekend because my feet were in such pain. Right, Like, there were so many things, Not that I'm complaining. I was thrilled, right, but it just took a It was like a like a physical like an athlete or you know, like it's hard, yeah, but also you have to look good, you know what I mean.

00:53:41
Speaker 2: It's a lot of things, and you have to appreciate the fact that you get this opportunity even though it's a lot of work and it's stressful and you do appreciate, of course.

00:53:48
Speaker 1: I mean I was beyond thrilled the entire time, including and just like that, right, like one.

00:53:54
Speaker 2: Can be appreciative and exhausted.

00:53:56
Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly, exactly true.

00:54:09
Speaker 1: The hardest part in the back in the day was not just being fully honest about it or whatever, right Like I remember, like I used to wish because there was a scene I don't know if we've come to it yet where I'm looking in the mirror in my bedroom and it's like a close up. They put the camera behind me. I am looking in the mirror and I had to hold really still so that the reflection would be right for the camera, and they're kind of like dollying around me, and then they come to my real face and I can't remember if I'm plucking my eyebrows. And it was for a line in the voiceover, right, it's for a carry line when she would kind of like place each of us in uptown and on the west side, you know how she does. It was that and it was maybe four am, and I'm trying to look really good in the mirror, plucking my eyebrows possibly, And do you remember this?

00:54:54
Speaker 2: I don't.

00:54:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a weird thing. But the reason I remember it is that I just really used to feel like that there should just be a little cry on at the bottom of the screen that was like, please understand it is four a m. But of course that was never going to happen because it would ruin the fantasy. But you know what I'm saying, it was a lot of pressure to live up to what we wanted it to be, you know, and what the fans wanted and what we thought they want. Right, It's a lot. But I mean I did love it, and I still love it. You know, I would go back.

00:55:24
Speaker 2: Tomorrow one day, I hope. Right, Yeah, good. I liked I interviewed Sarah Jessica a few months ago out in the Hampton's and I liked the way she articulated, wait for the book. This was at the very end, this just like the week before yet, but I like the way she articulated I had to ask the obligatory is this the end? Please ask? And I liked the way that she kind of answered with an ellipses and it was like, this is the end for now, and who knows? We said it was the end In two thousand and four. Yes, you know, we've said it was the end. We've been through it a lot, so I appreciate that sort of just like never say never.

00:55:58
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right, never say never. Michael Patrick is really the one that.

00:56:01
Speaker 2: We have to ask.

00:56:03
Speaker 1: And every time I see him, I'm just like, I'm not gonna ask him. I'm not gonna ask him. I'm not going to ask him, but I will ask him, and he knows I want to ask him, but I'm going to really try to give him a break because it's a lot of pressure, of.

00:56:13
Speaker 2: Course, But you think about how many you know ips it exists that we never thought we would see again. I mean I'm thinking about, like, you know, Practical Magic too is a right example, so excited one would have never thought this was and it's a beloved movie, but it's not top of mind. No, and people weren't clamoring for a sequel to Practical Magic. Not to say we aren't very excited that it's really right, but this just to say that there's so many things that one things have run their course that when presented, whether it be timing or opportunity, when brought forth and breathe new life into hocus Pocus another example, like you know.

00:56:46
Speaker 1: Such a good one.

00:56:47
Speaker 2: So I think that there's always the opportunity, even when you don't expect it, that same thing from the past can come back once again.

00:56:53
Speaker 1: Right, well, I expect it because because I feel that we have been through this incredible journey, and the reason that we've been through the incredible journey is because of the fans, right because you can't you can't come back if there aren't fans. Of course, I mean the good news about it, and just like that, a lot of people love it, of course, thank god. And a lot of people who are women over fifty or over forty love it, And thank you everyone. That's what I want to say. Because I didn't necessarily think that was making who we were making it for. I don't necessarily think of the end products when we're making it, right. I just trust Michael, and I trust Sarah, and I trust Cynthia, and I trust everyone involved. But not enough people make shows for those people, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, And I'm happy that we did it, and I'm happy that they love it, and I don't care if there's ten of them, I would make more just for those ten people, I'd watch more, thanks even happily watch more. I mean, yeah, it's trippy. I don't know if I have like two deep a feeling. But sometimes when you talk about Michael and it makes me think about how much I love him and how much I just really want to work with everybody forever? Do you know what I mean?

00:58:03
Speaker 2: Totally? And how many people that want to see you all work together forever?

00:58:07
Speaker 1: I hope so I help so and I feel like I feel like we have we probably have numerous things left, but like I do think we have one more something like next chapter.

00:58:19
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

00:58:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, because why wouldn't we Yeah?

00:58:23
Speaker 2: Right, I would like because you know, it's like you had the six seasons of the show, two movies, three seasons of end just like that. Obviously, I know there's the Sex and the City three never happened. I think it could be an opportunity to revise and reimagine.

00:58:37
Speaker 1: We can't because you know why why because that was the death of Big.

00:58:42
Speaker 2: I'm saying. I'm saying I know, So, I just mean the title sex, I reimagined the storyline. I'm just saying this could be. So it's like, what is it? Is? It a special is. But I will say too, it's like you look at like what the Malcolm in the Middle reboot did, which is that they brought back the show for four episodes.

00:58:59
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know.

00:59:00
Speaker 2: It's just like it's a one and done. I interest know what you call it. It's like it's a revival, but it's a mini series. Okay, But anyway, they brought the band back together four episodes in and out.

00:59:10
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:59:10
Speaker 2: I like that, And I think that, like, I wonder if I think it's been very well received. I wonder if all of a sudden they're like, Okay, maybe we do this again in next year or in five years, or maybe we bring the show back entirely right to say, but I think that there could be some sort of new formation, whether it be another film, a comeback for a set of episodes, or I think something.

00:59:31
Speaker 1: I think because a show is so hard, right, Like an ongoing show is the hardest thing in my mind to do. And that's why I have so much appreciation for our first one now that I'm reliving it, right, It's like, as you said, it's just incredible. The writing is just beyond incredible. It's very very hard to do right, So I think in my mind what I want, and I don't know what Michael wants, right by what I want, I want a movie. It can be on HBO and Max. Right, it doesn't have to be in the movie theaters because that's a whole drama. I do love the movie theaters. I need to be on record. I love the movie theaters.

01:00:08
Speaker 2: I want you guys on the big score.

01:00:10
Speaker 1: You do. Yeah, that is the sweetest thanks.

01:00:13
Speaker 2: May we need it.

01:00:14
Speaker 1: That's so nice. I mean, look, it was really fun.

01:00:16
Speaker 2: Look at what's happening right now with like the event of Devilwar's product good point and people going to the theaters and dressing up just as they did for the first two movies. I actually think fans deserve this to be in theaters so that they have the collective experience of getting called up, bringing their girlfriends, bringing their gaze. I like it. So, I actually we need this in theaters, Okay. I like that.

01:00:39
Speaker 1: We're gonna tell Michael Patrick this, We're gonna see what he can dream up.

01:00:44
Speaker 2: I love it.

01:00:44
Speaker 1: I mean I'm down for any of it obviously, right, and I'm going to be better situated to block out the negativity journey. I mean because I was somewhat blind sided by it because I was out in the world trying to do that podcast right, and as an actor, it just like, oh, how do I get out of this because now it's in my head?

01:01:06
Speaker 2: Can I tell you though, not to get like too many. I've really enjoyed the instances on the podcast in which you've opened up about what it was like experiencing that, and I want to say something. It's like, as you said, it's algorithm right, It's not just you going and seeking this out. Because you're an actor on the show, and because algorithms exist as they do, and because you have this podcast, a lot of that negativity is being foisted onto you. And so I can imagine that creates' that's so complicated. So few people are in an instance where they are part of something that is such a phenomenon that has this new iteration that is met with both love and people that have a lot to say. Okay, we'll say hate, but I have a lot of I have compassion for that, and I've and an appreciation for you being so honest on this podcast about what it's like as an actor to love something and have it have something you thought was going to be received one way, be received with so much conversation, good and bad. That's weird and it is real all and I understand that you're still figuring out how you felt about it, how you feel about it, how other people's feelings inform yours, and so you having this podcast where you're both rewatching the show but opening up about that. I found that really enriching as.

01:02:22
Speaker 1: I'm so glad, thank you, thanks real.

01:02:24
Speaker 2: Thank you.

01:02:25
Speaker 1: It's like my little therapy sessions. It's very real. That's for sure. I'm not good at being fake. You know, I'm not great at it. Right, I'm a horrible liar. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I that's why I love also doing it right, doing this podcast because it is it is such an interesting thing because I'm getting I choose you guys very carefully, right, my guests are you know, really carefully chosen, but also bring so much to me and help me in my process of figuring it all out, which is super interesting for me.

01:02:57
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I think your approach this podcast is really smart, because I like that you're obviously bringing in the writers and the actors and what have you, but also like a random guest star or I loved like when you and Marcia cross On, who thats fun, who's a fan of the show, But you also have this history with so again there's you're treating your listeners to so much complexity in terms of the characters that you're bringing into the world of Are you a Charlotte? Thank you, because I just I loved like just I came away from that so endeared both by you and Marcia but also your friendship. Yeah, and so I think it's really fun how you have some people that are on the inside. Yeah, some people completely on the outside, but some people like Marcia, who like have a proximity to the experience.

01:03:35
Speaker 1: This was because we were friends before it happened, and she remembers it happened, and he.

01:03:40
Speaker 2: Knows what it's like in her own right now, part of a cultural phenomenal. Yes, it's so relate on that very unique level.

01:03:46
Speaker 1: Yes, and also sometimes because she was I mean when I said I spent I spent like three years with her, I mean I literally spent like three calendar years with Marsha, Like we were in the same place in the same time in our lives, right, which was like we'd had some success, she'd had more success than me, But also we wanted different things. We were trying to create, like a bigger life for ourselves. Like I remember she had this house that I still drive by all the time, and I'm like, oh, Marsha's old house, which she says she still owns and runs out, which is so great. She was the first like other actress I knew who had a house, right, and I was like, I should rent a house. I'm going to rent a house. I'm going to have this for myself with a garden. It's going to be amazing. But that was because I saw her doing it right, like she was ahead of me in some ways. But also we could be together in it all, you know, and the craziness of beyond Melrose and you know, just going to the magazine rack every day in Santa Monica and doing polled Lotties, and you know, we were in that world together and like there for each other in such a wonderful, incredible way that you really need. You need people when you're trying to be an actor or trying to do anything in life that's hard, right, which I think everything's hard now personally, right, Like those people that you just can rely on and they're in it with you, you know, so to get to and then we would see each other once housewives hit and we hit. We'd beat these like she shehi parties. I remember one time we were at some Louis Vuittant thing and I was like Whysia across the room, like I'm so trying. And then we would be at the award shows together, like it was incredible. She'd be over with her group and we'd be over with our group, you know. So it's just so great to get to see them again and rehash it all and have different perspective on it totally because we're still in it. It's so crazy.

01:05:24
Speaker 2: I also think people love listening to actors as fans of other entities. So having people like Marcia and the others that you've had on this podcast that themselves are famous but are a fan, Yeah, I think it's so nice a level of it. I mean, there's a beautiful parasociality about it, absolutely, which is people getting to recognize like everyone is a fan of something absolutely, so often it's.

01:05:44
Speaker 1: The show, absolutely, and I mean we're so lucky that that's true. And I remember I have two things going on in my head at the same time, because you're you and you have interesting experiences. One thing that I did think of because one of the things Sarah's coming tomorrow and one of the things I wanted to start talking to her about was the experience of us starting to get nominated and going to the award shows. She previously because she was self just success before us, had gone to the Oscars and things. But like once for me, I just remember the I think this is partly why I don't remember the show as much, because this is around the time that we start getting really nominated. Like the first time I got nominated for Golden Globe, we won it, and all of us are just like not her, but the rest of us are just like what like just deer in the headlights beyond Michael Patrick's got his curls during meeting. It was raining that day. But the thing that I remember, and this was such a good memory that has really panned out in my thirty years in the business, is that maybe more than that, I don't know, we're back, you know, at the Golden Globes. You're in the the you know, the Hilton thing whatever it's called, and down there's like a lower level, which is all the movie people, and then there's a few steps in an upper level, which is the TV people, which is great because you can watch the movie people right you're watching it all, You're watching Who's talking to who? Whatever. It's like super cool when you first go. I mean, it's quite incredible. So we're up there. I'm wearing a Richard Tyler dress that I got out of the window because I drove by it on Melrose and I liked it. I didn't have a stylist, Dort, I mean, sir Jessica is also wearing a beautiful Richard Tyler dress, which was just a random coincidence because Richard Tyler was couteur that he made by hand in Los Angeles, which is rare, so we were there it rained. My hair's a freezy mess, like it looks like I just got out of the shower, right, Like, it doesn't seem like I'm wearing makeup, though I'm sure I had a professional makeup ours. But we're like, we don't know what the heck we're doing, right, It's fine, it's adorable.

01:07:37
Speaker 3: We're there.

01:07:39
Speaker 1: They call her name and we're up there in our TV world, and we have to make it all the way down to the stage and we're just like, wow, oh my god. In like the front row is Julianne Moore, and I think she is going to levitate out of her seat. She's coming to her. She's just like like literally like it is the best thing that ever happened to her. And I remember Julian Moore's Julian Morning's climbing for Rest. Oh my god, she knows who we are, She's seen the shoe, Like you're just having these like layers of realization. And later on we talked and she's still I mean, she's obviously just an incredible, genuine, incredibly kind person. And her husband Bart also like the whole time our biggest fans. And Bart then told me a whole story about how when they had their kids and we'd be on the TV and their daughter would be like, mommy when I would come on, is that even though to a different hair color, but we have a similar vibe, do you know what I mean? Like they're just the sweetest and you you you come. And it's not to say their business isn't crazy and there's weirdness that happens, and obviously whatever, but genuine genuinely. People are incredibly supportive, and that was my first experience of it. And what I wanted to talk to sar Jesska about was when we start that whole process and it's such a crazy, you know, windy thing. But the other day, I want to talk to you about he did Rivalry because it.

01:09:03
Speaker 2: Reminds me of this, right, because you want a moment. You were asked about this on a carpet and.

01:09:07
Speaker 1: I had a crazy because I was in it. Okay, I was in it. And then I saw Hudson be like ADHD or something and I was like, oh my god, he's talking about me, and yes, apparently I have ADHD. I'm learning through this podcast. But whatever, I've gotten this far. We're just gonna roll with it.

01:09:24
Speaker 2: Are you learning this or people are telling this to you?

01:09:26
Speaker 1: People keep telling it to me. It's fine.

01:09:31
Speaker 2: Benny told me.

01:09:32
Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, I've got it too, you know whatever journey.

01:09:36
Speaker 2: So he says too, and you're like, wait too.

01:09:39
Speaker 1: Right, No, because people comment on my thing that I that I that I interrupt everyone and like, don't don't follow a plan like that. Look they're not wrong, Okay, I get it. I get it, But you know what. It's fun, right, and it's fun. And when I get people who also like Marsha what she's on, she's like, oh my god, it's fun. But you're much more. When I listen to your interviews, I'm impressed because you have a plan and you and you actually you are also in the moment, but you also have a plan. But I want to talk to you a little bit about Hated Rivalry because I've never gotten the guys on. I obviously passionately love it, I also have been reliving. I think that part of the reason. And I don't know what you think, and I want to know. Because we didn't know who they were the actors, right, we were able as a collective audience to have this initial experience. I didn't know the book, right, which is most of us. I know, there's a big group of people who knew the book, but we didn't know the actors, and we were able to watch it fresh, right, not knowing. We didn't know that Connor was so different than Iliat we know now and it's fucking fascinating, right, But like when we watched it, we could have this whole experience fresh, you know, and fresh to the actors. And fall in love with them collectively. And I feel like that's what happened to us with Sex and the City totally right, with the exception of Sarah and Kim. People know obviously for a mannequin and whatever, but the the alchemy of it was fresh. Yeah, And I feel like that's what happened with heated rivalry, and that's kind of similar to what happened with us. And then you're just like shut out of a cannon in a certain way. More so for them obviously, it's like incredible and I think they're holding it together really well. But you've talked to them, what do you think.

01:11:23
Speaker 2: Well, it's interesting you say that because I think audiences always, but I think, especially right now, there's something about discoverability. Yeah, people really like and I think about like Baby Reindeer as another example. I think about Love Story as another example of this, where it's.

01:11:39
Speaker 1: Like, I have mixed feelings on that one, having been alive for the actual experience, I'm not. But that's not the actors.

01:11:49
Speaker 2: It's not the actors more just watching these actors totalate when the interests and adoration of so many fans, it's just people really like discovering new talent.

01:12:00
Speaker 1: It's powerful.

01:12:00
Speaker 2: It's really powerful, and I thought something about the heated rivalry. The strategy that I thought was really interesting was, and people forget this now because it all happened so fast, but during the five weeks that that show aired, because it only aired for five weeks because the first two episodes were released at once, so it was a five week window for the show. During those five weeks, they did very little press, right, which was fantastic, And so it created the sense that during the actual run of the show, not only were we discovering these two people, but they weren't on magazine covers.

01:12:31
Speaker 1: No, they were like real people, the characters people.

01:12:33
Speaker 2: They weren't late night shows. We had no entry point into, as you said, the distance between Connor and Ilia, and I think that was really powerful. And I don't even know if it was a purposeful strategy so much.

01:12:45
Speaker 1: I think it was because they were in Canada and then HBO.

01:12:47
Speaker 2: Bob Okay waits show. Let's do a formal Yes, it was perfect. But I think that really added to it, which was that they during the run of the show, they very much seem like these actors who had just been dropped into.

01:13:04
Speaker 1: Our eth totally and then that's what they were.

01:13:06
Speaker 2: Yes, and so I'll be really curious going into season two, like bona fide Superstars, what that will look like.

01:13:12
Speaker 1: Right, But Jacob is a genius as far as I'm concerned, absolutely, like genius level, like that episode five. I mean when they did interview me, it was when we gave Sarth Jessica her Carol Burnette Award. Is where we were and it was January, right, So I was a little late to it. My HBO algorithm kept showing it to me, and I was like, high schoolers playing hockey? Why does it think I want to watch this? I had no idea what it was. I was like, that keeps showing to me, these youngsters playing hockey. I could not be less interested. Well, really, I was super wrong because then I started and I was literally, it is like a powerful thing when you are in it, Yes, And I like would dream about it like it was so intense. So they interviewed me in the middle of it, and I'm like, you guys, I say, like really like and you know, it was a lot. It was a lot.

01:14:03
Speaker 2: When I see it.

01:14:04
Speaker 1: I'm also like, oh, Kristin, you should not be that honest.

01:14:08
Speaker 2: You should always be yourself. That's why people love you. And I think also people are starved for monoculture, starved for phenomena, and so I think people just collective energy, yes, collect And also I will say, like there have been a lot of conversations about the Turn and the heated rivalry fandom and things getting more toxic, but for the mean about their personal lives, you know, about the fandom in general, and sort of Okay, I don't.

01:14:31
Speaker 1: Want to know, do not be toxic.

01:14:33
Speaker 2: People try to not be toxic. Try, But needless to say, I think that people were really just excited. I know I was, especially at the time of just like watching the purity of a bunch of people falling in love with this show and getting to collectively love on it, yes.

01:14:47
Speaker 1: And feeling the feelings, like like the feelings. I think that because romantic comedy has somehow gotten a bad name, right like in the culture. Yes, I just talked to it actor the other day who's got a book that she's making. She's not calling it a romantic comedy because people feel very scared about actors. She's just calling it a romance, which which it kind of is. It's got some drama. It's a mix right of things, which obviously Sex and the City does as well. But we were always thought of as a rom com. I think I'm not totally sure. I mean, why do we even have to have labels? Really, right? But in our business we do because that's how studios think of things, yes, and think about the audience and who are we making this for, et cetera, et cetera. But I think that, you know, we used to be able to just make a bunch of rom comms that were high concept, like the one where Julia Roberts runs away Runaway ride, right, like wacky but fantastic, but wacky, right, but who cares? You can make a leap and go with it. We got to a point, I believe, where people, audiences, large audiences in general, couldn't make that leap anymore. Somehow We'd run our course in terms of like believability or something, and they, maybe the social media of it all, or the hate watching or the poking holes and whatever it was, caught up with it and we couldn't just make them and let them have breath.

01:16:15
Speaker 2: Right.

01:16:16
Speaker 1: So for me, what he did, Rivalry did was reclaim it, and we needed two closeted gay hockey players to do it, and a genius creator right who knew how to structure that episode five. I mean that episode five structure and the joy of watching people on your social media watching it for the first time is incredible, and I believe we'll be taught in colleges like it is a fascinating phenomenon of what we as an audience needed, because it really should have been in the theaters right in a perfect world, do you know what I'm saying, But because it wasn't, and for many reasons, right like they had been in a bigger streamer who then was giving them notes and saying don't kiss in the beginning, like ff people like you know what I'm saying, Like people can't let things be right. So that's the crazy world we're living in where there's a lot of fear in our business about audience size and everything whatever. So then like Jacob knew, Okay, we've got to go to Canada and just do it how we want to do it. Good for him, amazing, And then these actors gave everything. They gave everything. I don't care if they're gay or straight. I don't give a flying you know, what because they gave it all right, that's all that mattered. And that was how I came to watch it. Was hold on his other name, his other name, I want to call him Scott Laurent, no f recois, oh or no yes. When he said everyone leave them alone and don't talk about their personal lives, I was like, wait, my interest to speak what? That was why I watched it because I was like, wait, what is happening here? And he was right, it doesn't matter what their personal lives are. We need to experience this as a pure experience of art. I don't know if they would use that word, but I'm use that word art right, And that's why, like straight dudes whose wives convinced them to watch it and then film them and then make fry. It's so beautiful. I just love it so much. That's really what I wanted to say. And by the time I was asking them to come on the podcast, they were already like, you know, globe trotting and whatnot, which I'm just thrilled.

01:18:21
Speaker 2: Hopefully they'll be back, though I'd love to have seen them on this podcast for sure.

01:18:24
Speaker 1: Me too, me too, me too.

01:18:25
Speaker 2: Well.

01:18:25
Speaker 1: I have texted with Francois so hopefully. Well, yes, he's a sweetheart. He's a sweetheart. They all are. I love them all so much, and I'm so happy that you have talked to them in depth.

01:18:36
Speaker 2: I got really lucky because I did the interview with Connor but between episodes four and five. Yeah, and then I did the interview, my first interview with Hudson, like I think a few weeks after Perfect and so I it was interesting to meet them at.

01:18:50
Speaker 1: That yure of Perfect.

01:18:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was early.

01:18:55
Speaker 1: It was early, Yeah, Like at one point Connor says to you, like, I'm not sure what I've said to who, which is Yeah, been there Connor still feel that way?

01:19:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say, funny enough with what you're saying about five. So I, as I said, it was between episodes four and five, and HBO had sent me a screener a five, which I watched that morning before I headed to the interview, because they sent it to me that late. You know how screeners go, I do, And so imagine watching that episode five in silo on my laptop and and having no idea of like, you know, what was going to happen, and so literally I think I like closed my laptop an hour before I left for the interview. Wow, And I'm just like, and again I experienced it by myself, so I had no one to gauge, Like, I'm like, this is seismic, right, yes, yeah, so yeah, I was just what I remember.

01:19:37
Speaker 1: Yes, I could tell because you also couldn't be honest with him about it. You couldn't go yeah, you scirt around well because I also knew that.

01:19:44
Speaker 2: This was going to be airing like affright.

01:19:46
Speaker 1: You didn't want to ruin it.

01:19:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you know all the time. It's like you're trying to talk about something in real time with a person, but you have to fail.

01:19:54
Speaker 1: Hard, really hard. But you did a great job. You did a great job because also he's so fresh. I have a question, Evan, are you a Charlotte.

01:20:14
Speaker 2: I think I am a quintessential Carrie.

01:20:17
Speaker 1: You're the first one I've had.

01:20:20
Speaker 2: I love it. I'm a writer.

01:20:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.

01:20:22
Speaker 2: So I feel like because I just have always I mean, as I said, Carrie defender through and through. But also like I've been the person sitting in my bedroom at my laptop for decades now, and so I've always just related to that and I've always I tend to whenever I watch ensemble series, which are my favorites, I always sort of glob onto the experience of the main character I'm thinking about in this moment, like thinking about Buffy, so many of the shows that I love, thinking about girls like I love Hannah. It's not to say I don't love the ancillary characters. I mean, especially on this show. Yeah, but yeah, I just feel like a classic.

01:21:00
Speaker 1: I think it's fantastic. Almost no one says that, which I think is so interesting. But I also think it's because of the the journey of the show, right, Like they might have been to carry at different times, but now they're too analytical about Carrie.

01:21:13
Speaker 2: Well, I also think sometimes the archetype of the show excuse me, the archetype of the character flattens how people experience them. So, for instance, I think for a lot of people, when you say you are a Samantha, the association is that you're a slut, as opposed to the myriad other things Samantha, and so I think people glob onto like one aspect of the character to define the character.

01:21:36
Speaker 1: I agree totally, And that's what I love about Charlotte, just because you know whatever, because she got to be so many things, so it's not as obvious, right, Like in the beginning, it was one thing, but then it grew and grew and grew, right, which I think is why people can appreciate her now, because I had this whereas Carrie had to be all the things in the beginning. And also because everyone's hearing her thoughts, I think people forget you.

01:21:59
Speaker 2: Differently, which it connects you to her. But I gotta say Carrie, but also like season one Carrie, Like I love that little, the pricklier Carrie from season one.

01:22:09
Speaker 1: I love you find her prickly in season.

01:22:13
Speaker 2: One, she's got a harder edge she does.

01:22:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think probably because it was more Candice. That makes sense, Yeah, because we're really working from the book, you know what I mean. The book was the basis and Michael Patrick comes, but he hadn't really infused it all of course.

01:22:28
Speaker 2: And I gotta say that I love all the iterations of the show and how it it changes so much, and not just in terms of the storyline, in so many ways, visually, so many things. I love all the instances of it. But I have a particular reverence for the grittiness of season one.

01:22:43
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, season one's fascinating in my mind. I've said this on the podcast before. I always thought Season one was bad.

01:22:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is so crazy.

01:22:51
Speaker 1: I know, I'm so sorry, And Cynthia would always tell me I was wrong, right, and then I rewatched. I was like, oh, I was fundamentally tremendously wrong. I think the only reason that I thought that is because I was projecting my own anxiety that I was living with at that time, right of like can I pull it off? Can I wear the shoes? Are they gonna keep me? Are they not gonna keep me? And then also Darren would sometimes come down I think I've said this on the podcast. I don't know, it's been a while, and he would be like, you guys, we have to be funny. Okay, we have to be really funny. And you'd be like, oh, okay. And then like the next day or two, he'd come down and he'd be like, you guys have to be sexy. You have to be really really sexy. And I'd be like, but me, because the script is still the same, Like what do you mean? Like how you know what I'm saying? Like, because we didn't know and we were finding and nothing had aired, so we didn't know if people were just gonna be like up in arms or hate us or what. And I think he was, you know, potentially carrying all that, you know, in his creator mind, like whoa what are we?

01:23:54
Speaker 2: Who are we?

01:23:55
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? So that anxiety, I think infused my vision of it all, Whereas now I look back and I'm like, yeah, we're this and we're that, and it's so physically dark, and you know, so you feel downtown so much when you're watching.

01:24:10
Speaker 2: It, and season one feels particularly nineties.

01:24:13
Speaker 1: It is the very nineties. Yeah, well because we filmed the ninety eight, so it would make sense. I love the fashion season one, not Charlotte, So I'm sorry.

01:24:23
Speaker 2: No, maybe that's Charlotte.

01:24:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we had not found Charlotte yet. There's a struggle and we had no money. Molly came on and told us Mollie Rogers, you know, was with Pat the whole time, and she still we had.

01:24:35
Speaker 2: Oh Molly and you on this podcast. That's a key.

01:24:38
Speaker 1: It's a whole podcast, right anytime, I'm like, babe. She invited me to go to The Devil Whor's part of premire, but I couldn't go, and I was like, oh, so, why would I be there? Would be weird, But I just wanted to be with her, do you know what I mean? Because she's been out there and I'm so happy she's out there so much, but I'm also like, I want to be with her, do you know what I mean? I love her so passionately. She's such a special, special person. But she reminded me that our budget for the costumes of season one was ten thousand dollars? Can you believe that?

01:25:04
Speaker 2: I kind of believe it because it's like there was a scrappiness that they so appreciate, and.

01:25:08
Speaker 1: No one was lending us clothes, like Sarah would bring her dress from home for the naked dress and we were better.

01:25:13
Speaker 2: For listen, No, no, we were. You made Evan, you made iconography, You made it work, like it's great to have the resources time. If you would have started with those resources from season one, I don't think it would have made.

01:25:24
Speaker 1: It's like you, that's a good point.

01:25:25
Speaker 2: Yes, every day is some of its parts, but it's like I think that again, there's so many aspects of season one that like built it up and made it such where no, that's your season six budget. It's like you grew from season.

01:25:34
Speaker 1: One well in season six. It wasn't even relieving the budget either. It was just people just freely, like right off the run, you know what I mean, Like it was no better visibility, a dream for us, you know, and then we would return it all because we were good girls. Tee. You are so much fun. You have to come all the time, but you're going to be too busy with the Netflix, which I.

01:25:53
Speaker 2: Don't wait to see it, but I'm so I'm so happy to be here.

01:25:56
Speaker 1: When will we see it?

01:25:57
Speaker 2: The premiere is May.

01:25:58
Speaker 1: First, Okaye, a week a week incredible. It couldn't happen to a better person.

01:26:04
Speaker 2: That's so nice of you.

01:26:04
Speaker 1: Were so excited.

01:26:05
Speaker 2: I love this podcast, so I'm so excited to be here.

01:26:09
Speaker 1: I appreciate you so much, Evan, thank you for being here.

01:26:12
Speaker 2: Pleasure.

01:26:12
Speaker 1: Can't wait to watch on Netflix.

01:26:14
Speaker 2: Thank you.

01:26:14
Speaker 1: Very exciting