CA Gov Gavin Newsom Commutes Sentences For ALL 548 Death Row Inmates

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. And who knew Governor Gavin Newsom would use California's death row to try out his Oprah Winfrey impression? You get a commutation. You get a commutation. You get a commutation. Everybody, Robes, gets a commutation. Welcome, everybody. I'm TJ. That's Robes. Death penalty has been having a moment in this country. Robes, this is huge.

00:00:29
Speaker 2: This is significant. California has not actually put anyone to death since 2006. However, Gavin Newsom is out, a new governor coming in, and a parting gift, yes, that he has given death row inmates is their lives, literally.

00:00:48
Speaker 1: Gift of life. Ropes 548, the largest death row we have in the country. And he just, in one move... has taken a third of all death row inmates off death row in the country. California had a third of them out there. Robes, what does this do? This is one thing, and yes, there are families involved, and there are inmates involved in all those lives, but Robes, the momentum, or at least the conversations we've been having about the death penalty in this country this year, for various reasons, what does this do to that conversation?

00:01:23
Speaker 2: Well, people are talking. People have been talking about the death penalty. People have been talking about cruel and unusual. People have been talking about whether or not it even serves as a deterrent. Does it make us barbaric? We are the only Western civilized country in the world that still uses the death penalty. And so, look, are things shifting in this direction nationally, state by state? It widely varies, but there's no question that this absolutely keeps this conversation going, keeps people asking questions with this largest mass death row commutation in U.S. history. This is a big deal.

00:02:03
Speaker 1: He, some perspective, he, he commuted in one day, in one move, more death row inmates sentences than have been done the past 50 years in this country. Wow. He did it in one move. So, yes, people are getting word. Gavin Newsom, future presidential candidate, has once again put himself smack dab in the center, in the middle of a national conversation. He has been doing this, it feels like, for a while. He's been talking about this for a while, we should say, as well.

00:02:37
Speaker 2: He put a moratorium on executions when he was in office, so we clearly knew where he stood on this. But I don't know. I mean, look, obviously people have strong opinions. And based on your experience and what you've seen or happened recently, to your family. I can't speak on any personal situation where I would have a reason to feel strongly one way or the other. I just on a moral level, on a financial level, I am and have always been against the death penalty. But you know what? I have not had a close family member murdered or a close family member die or wound at the hand of a violent individual. And so maybe some people would say, sure, you can have that opinion until it happens to you. And look, I thought it was really interesting. Governor Newsom actually took that into consideration because he was trying to decide at one point, should I commute certain people? Should I commute, should I not commute the most violent or the most vile of the murderers on my death row? And he came to the conclusion that if it happens to you, it's the worst thing that could have happened. That person is the worst person, the worst kind of criminal. So how do you determine And we'll.

00:03:47
Speaker 1: Get into the language here. We'll let you hear. He wrote what they called an open letter to the state of California about this move that he made. It's a state that Robes has for years, for decades now. They've been asked the question directly. California every time said, nah, we want to keep the death penalty. proposition this, proposition that. They've done it at least three or four times in the past 20 years.

00:04:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, the last one, 53% of Californians wanted the death penalty to stay intact in their state. So yes, he is going against the most recent measure of how Californians feel about the death penalty.

00:04:20
Speaker 1: I understand, Robes. You look at the numbers, the racial disparities are Chilling. Obviously, yes. And unmistakable. So as far as answers, or at least some of the greatest pushback that I will listen to when it comes to the death penalty, Robes, how is it possible that, what, you've got 6% of the population of California is black, but the 30% of your death row inmates? Robes, there are disparities we've seen there. including exonerations. There have been eight in California since 1981. Six of them were black men. The other two were people of color as well. That needs to be discussed. Absolutely.

00:05:06
Speaker 2: There is a massive disparity in who gets the death penalty and who does not, and certainly by race, without a doubt. But also think about if you added to that financial disparities, Obviously the poorest of the poor, the people who can't afford the good lawyers, the people who have to take a public defender who might not have ever even handled a capital murder case before, who isn't equipped to actually properly defend somebody whose life is at stake. Clearly those people significantly, overwhelmingly did not have the means to defend themselves the way wealthier individuals do.

00:05:44
Speaker 1: And that's worth always addressing, but that's something. Before people even bang the drum about individual cases or bang the drum about is it morally this or that, you can make just an argument based on numbers that something is wrong.

00:06:00
Speaker 2: Wildly unfair.

00:06:01
Speaker 1: Is wrong here. 27 states have the death penalty. 23 have abolished it at this point. You look at the map and you can see where these states are.

00:06:11
Speaker 2: Is it concentrated in the south? Yes.

00:06:15
Speaker 1: We can blow through these right quick. Rose, I'm coughing a little bit, so you can just blow through these right quick. The 27 states where they do have the death penalty. Is your state one of them?

00:06:22
Speaker 2: Yes. And look, it is a little confusing because even some of these states that still have the death penalty on the books, they aren't necessarily executing folks on death row. So it varies widely from state to state. But these are the states officially that still have the death penalty on the books. That is Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, Wyoming.

00:07:17
Speaker 1: And Texas, of course, is in there as well. Texas. They have a pretty big death row population. I believe Florida's is larger than Texas' death row right now. They're clearing numbers, it appears, in Florida these days with roads. What's happening in Florida? Well, we saw what happened in Florida last year. And several other things Krista Pike included. the Nadal Hassan botched. It wasn't a botched execution, but it was a botched announcement.

00:07:46
Speaker 2: A botched announcement that we're going to publicly execute this terrorist by putting him up against a firing squad and live stream it for the world to see a la ISIS. This sounds like something that Zawahiri or Zarqawi did back in the day. And yet we were telling the world, we're going to go ahead and show the world how tough we are. Unfortunately for Pete Hegseth, who made this announcement, maybe he didn't clear it with President Trump first. Maybe he didn't realize or didn't think about the fact that Hassan is in a wheelchair and how that would look to the That certainly, there was egg on the face of plenty in the Trump administration after that.

00:08:32
Speaker 1: That was another high profile misfire when it comes to the death penalty. Because no matter where you sit on the death penalty, when it comes to Krista Pike and when it comes to Nadal Hassan, you knew this wasn't right. It wasn't right what happened to her in that death chamber. And it wasn't right to live stream a shooting a guy in a wheelchair, even though Hexeth was involved. celebrating. He was hooting and honking. But Rose, that gave us time to talk about and think about the death penalty personally. That wasn't right. What happened to her wasn't right and live streaming wasn't right.

00:09:08
Speaker 2: No, and look, we're not excusing in any way the fact that Nadal Hassan is a mass murderer. He is a terrorist and he absolutely should be punished for his crime and those victims' families deserve justice 100%. Krista Pike, same thing. Colleen Slummer's mom went to that execution chamber in the morning and in the evening to try and see her daughter's killer finally put to justice. So look, we understand the need for some families to want to see this through, but there is something about celebrating it or live streaming it or using the idea or the concept that we actually still do this in this country as a way to show that we're what? tough on crime, that we're eye for an eye kind of people. I don't know. what that says about us, but for a lot of people who are anti-death penalty, shouldn't we do better? Yes, we need to protect the public. Yes, those people need to never see the light of day and need to be held behind bars until they die. But is there any value in a human life? Should we allow any of those criminals some sort of ability to do better, to apologize, to learn from their mistakes, to teach younger inmates about not taking certain paths. I mean, could there be value in allowing those folks to live on behind bars?

00:10:37
Speaker 1: Those cases, those stories, those high-profile stories gave people, you talk about, it's one thing, people who are anti-death penalty, but for the people who are even pro-death penalty, you didn't feel good about this stuff. You didn't feel good about Krista Pike, what happened to her. Even if you wanted her to die, you didn't appreciate what happened. The suffering. Even you want Hassan. So it just gave us a moment to reflect. Even if you are pro-death penalty, he took a beat. Caused you to take a beat. And to now, and even hearing Gavin Newsom's words, which I think is pretty well written.

00:11:13
Speaker 2: I do too.

00:11:14
Speaker 1: Hearing his words, it just causes us all once again in a very high profile way. to take a beat.

00:11:21
Speaker 2: Agreed. And I thought it was actually, and we'll read for you his entire statement, but I thought it was very well thought out. And I appreciate how he explained the process he went through to come to this decision, to come to this announcement. And we should point out, by the way, it's not a done deal. This still has to go through some legal challenges before it's actually put into place. But I did appreciate him taking us along his journey to come to this conclusion. We've got some excerpts from his open letter. After nearly 30 years in public office, I have come to understand the limits of what government can justly accomplish. I take this action because I firmly believe that state-sanctioned killing is incompatible with California's values, undermines the foundations of our legal system, and diminishes each of us. I know we cannot execute people in our imperfect legal system and remain true to our core values, first among them, justice and human decency.

00:12:25
Speaker 1: We say that, right? We say justice and human decency are supposed to be our core values. But we just announced we wanted to shoot a guy in a live stream. Is that human decency? Is that justice? I don't know. I guess there seems to be a disagreement sometimes amongst our leaders, among our leaders, about what our core values are or should be. So I hear what he's saying. Human decency does not allow for the death penalty, you could argue, Robes.

00:12:51
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people would argue that. And as we said at the beginning of this, plenty, most of the rest of the world... agrees with that premise and has made those changes in their laws and they've been in place for some time. So yes, we are the outliers. Gavin Newsom continues, the people sentenced to death in California caused indescribable suffering to victims, their families, communities, and our state as a whole. The harm they inflicted persists across generations. Many Californians feel that those who commit brutal crimes deserve to die. But as governor, I have concluded the state cannot morally kill them. I do, however, pray that this action will finally separate the memories of the victims of these crimes from the fate of those who harmed them. We can now let these offenders die in obscurity while we forever remember and honor their victims. I thought that was a really good point to make.

00:13:51
Speaker 1: We should also say he's Catholic. Gavin Newsom has talked about this previously. And it was out there that he was thinking about this. Hell, he was the one to put the moratorium in place. You knew he had a problem with the death penalty. Rose, he hits a bunch of good points here. And that is key, is it not?

00:14:12
Speaker 2: Why?

00:14:13
Speaker 1: Why? do I have to think about honoring a victim? Why can I not honor that victim in the right way unless her killer gets this, that, or the other? That's a great point of how we do robes, connects in some way justice and the memory of someone. Like if this particular justice isn't met, then I am in some kind of way doing an injustice to that memory. For families... I don't know how difficult of a pill that is to swallow. I bet many of them have already gotten to that point on their own. But he is suggesting here, why are we still circling a date, signing a warrant, getting some headlines, got a Supreme Court involved, right? All this stuff that the killer gets, obscurity. Just let them die in obscurity.

00:15:06
Speaker 2: Agreed. And we have covered this time and time again in order to... actually send someone to that execution chamber, there are years and most of the time decades and decades of court hearings, appeals. You've got judges in courts reviewing new DNA tests. There is so much that goes on in the fight to try and stop a death penalty from actually being carried out that these families, these victims' families are taken through this court and this legal proceeding forever. It's almost an unending, continued form of torture that you're constantly having to look at this person, hear their name, see the headlines, read about them in the papers, maybe even, yes, go to these court hearings and try to make sure that they are actually killed for their crime. But the amount of effort and time and just mental anguish that continues. Imagine if you just were sentenced to death They went to prison, never to see the light of day again. No one talks about them again. No one says their name again. You can do whatever you need to do to honor your loved one, and you don't have to go back to court. You don't have to keep it going.

00:16:24
Speaker 1: Have to cross your mind again.

00:16:25
Speaker 2: I imagine that would actually bring more peace, more closure, than maybe people even imagine.

00:16:31
Speaker 1: I guess some do want them to die. You know, Rob, I wonder from... Once they're sentenced to die... The family then has an expectation of what justice is. And now you've got to make them wait 30, 35 years to get it. But initially, life in prison without the possibility of parole. For how many families who are looking at someone who killed their loved one, is that not good enough? It might not be good enough. But we've got 23 states that don't have the death penalty at all. So they don't have a choice but to have it be good enough.

00:17:03
Speaker 2: So there's an acceptance of that.

00:17:06
Speaker 1: So what if you never gave the death penalty in the first place?

00:17:19
Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly. And we saw, this was a recent case in Alabama. A man was actually executed 35 years in one day to the day he murdered a loved one. That family, that victim's family made a statement saying we should not have had to have waited 35 years. These past 35 years have been torturous. We've had to read about him, see him, go to these Court hearings and 35 years is too long. What if the day he was sentenced and remanded into custody and went away to prison, it was done and it was over. Wouldn't that have given that family those 30 something years back that they've been complaining about having to go through and live through? I think it's something to consider. Maybe it's not even on the radar. Like, wow, wait a minute. What if The final nail in the coffin. What if the final moment of justice was life in prison without the possibility of parole?

00:18:24
Speaker 1: Without the possibility of parole. They'll never get out, never have to see. You don't have to think about them. No. Again, a couple appeals might come up here and there. You don't even have to get involved in that.

00:18:33
Speaker 2: They'll die quietly, obscurely.

00:18:35
Speaker 1: Nobody will remember, mourn them, nothing. No. But instead, they ended up having days, weeks, months in the headlines. And sometimes these are men who do harm in what they say, sometimes what they say in that death chamber, sometimes the things they say.

00:18:53
Speaker 2: Or what they don't say.

00:18:54
Speaker 1: In that court filings, and still talking about I'm innocent 30 years later.

00:19:00
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you've got advocacy groups that are championing them, almost making them appear to be the victims. That has to be so painful. Yes, these groups, these advocacy groups are trying to stop the death penalty on moral grounds. but think about the harm they do probably in trying to create some sort of martyrdom or victimhood for these convicted murderers. That has to be incredibly difficult to read about and see when you are the victim's family member. Absolutely.

00:19:28
Speaker 1: I don't hear this argument made enough. Uh, the one that he's making here. And then I think he made it in a very eloquent way. Um, But that should be more of a part of the conversation. Why are we tying the memories of these people to the deaths of these offenders?

00:19:47
Speaker 2: That is such a good way to put it. Governor Newsom goes on to write, I have decided to commute every death sentence. Some have said I should not grant clemency to people who committed the worst of the worst crimes. I carefully consider different categories of capital crimes and offender characteristics. I have learned, however, from speaking with the victims harmed by these crimes that each experiences their loss as the worst of the worst. I have concluded that attempting to distinguish among crimes and offenders for clemency is would inadvertently create two classes of murder victims, those whose perpetrators deserve the death penalty, and then the rest. That is such an excellent point he makes.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: That's what we do in every single one of these cases. What do they call it when they... The circumstances they put when they make the charges.

00:20:39
Speaker 2: Aggravated circumstances.

00:20:41
Speaker 1: To elevate it, right?

00:20:42
Speaker 2: Right. So if you were lying in wait, if it was an armed robbery, if there was a rape with the murder, that would be an aggravated circumstance, which then makes them eligible for.

00:20:52
Speaker 1: The death penalty. So why do we do that? You think that victims' families? Well, he's not eligible because he didn't lie in wait. Did you see what he did to my loved one? Right? This is, again, he's making some good points here, Robes, and he's doing it at a right time where there is a tension on the death penalty this year.

00:21:10
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

00:21:11
Speaker 1: There is, Robes. How much is this going to be talked about in the presidential? We haven't talked about death penalty that much in this country when it comes to politicians.

00:21:18
Speaker 2: Certainly no.

00:21:19
Speaker 1: It's not a big topic.

00:21:22
Speaker 2: No, it's not. And look, the appetite for... For the death penalty, I don't know if it's changing. We haven't had a poll that I have seen since the Krista Pike botched execution, but I wonder how much that may have changed some people's opinions about the death penalty. As we mentioned, Newsom, yes, put a moratorium in place in 2019 in California, but I didn't realize this. He dismantled the execution chamber at San Quentin. I did not know that.

00:21:52
Speaker 1: There are images of it, just seeing guys carrying all this equipment out of it. Yeah. Robes, they've been going, look, they haven't had an execution in 20 years. Yes. But for whatever reason, every time they vote on it, they don't want to get rid of it, even though they're not using it. Got another Democrat coming in as governor, Beshara, right? So don't exactly expect much to change. When will there be another execution in the state of California? Now, what's the guy who's the L.A. D.A. down there has already come out and kind of pushed back saying, The law is still the law, and the death penalty is still on the books. So therefore, my office will continue to go after the death penalty if we see fit in these conditions.

00:22:34
Speaker 2: Right. And as a DA, obviously that is a huge part of the bargaining chip that they will use when they're trying to get a murder suspect to either admit the charges, plead guilty. I mean, Nick Reiner, the whole thing. They were dangling the we might pursue the death penalty because he was lying in wait for his parents.

00:22:53
Speaker 1: After this, how are they going to sit across from the defendant and try to negotiate with the death penalty? You're going to laugh at them.

00:23:00
Speaker 2: Well, you could also consider the fact that maybe they'll be first in line now. If there's no one else on death row, we don't know how this new governor is going to conduct himself.

00:23:10
Speaker 1: When it comes to- Yes, but who- Maybe he wants to be tough on crime.

00:23:14
Speaker 2: Who knows? Who knows what his experience is? It's highly unlikely. But yes, agreed. This does take some of that It wasn't even real power, but perhaps perceived power away from the district attorney to dangle that in front of a suspect to admit guilt.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: But at this point, would you even dangle that? I know it's some political posturing. Everybody wants to make their comments on this. But is that fair to do that in California right now? For whatever case comes up, you want to dangle the death penalty? Tell a family that justice in this is for your loved one's murderer? to get the death penalty. That will never come.

00:23:55
Speaker 2: Right. So what's the point?

00:23:57
Speaker 1: What's the point of that? I think it would be cruel to do that to them at some point, to have an expectation of the death of this person. And that's what justice is. 548 families were told that justice that the state of California is going to administer for you is death. That all changed. Look, polyclass, they're very, outspoken, I guess we could say, about her dad. He's speaking up on this one, not liking this at all.

00:24:26
Speaker 2: No. No. Look, and this is somebody who, yes, he has been one of the more outspoken advocates, victims' rights advocates. And her killer, thankfully, I actually think this is a good thing, I wasn't even... aware of his name i didn't remember her killer's name polly class yes we all know her name but richard allen davis has been on death row he's one of the more notable death row inmates who is now yes going to i guess only well he'll live out the rest of his days behind bars.

00:24:57
Speaker 1: You made a really good point just then babe i didn't know what.

00:25:01
Speaker 2: The hell his name was because he hasn't been close to getting executed so we haven't heard his name.

00:25:06
Speaker 1: Sign a death warrant for that guy And for the next 30, 60 days, every headline is about him, right?

00:25:12
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely.

00:25:14
Speaker 1: You make a good point. And there's not a lot. Excuse me. You all, I am so sorry. I've got a cough issue. Everybody's like, duh.

00:25:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can tell. We can tell. Every time you take a deep breath, there's a cough. But no, the other one, Lonnie Franklin, he's the other notable death row inmate. He was duped the grim sleeper in California. But again, I don't, this doesn't ring a bell for me because these cases have not come back up into the spotlight because neither one of these men have been close to getting executed. They haven't gotten execution dates. We actually had to look up Scott Peterson, because remember, initially, he was sentenced to death, but that was commuted to a life in prison, and he's still trying to proclaim his innocence and get out of prison, period.

00:25:58
Speaker 1: This gives you an idea. Gavin Newsom is being criticized in some circles, obviously. Some political circles, folks, are saying this is good or bad for him when he runs for president. If he runs for president, excuse me. But Pauly Class's dad did speak up. Damn, sorry, y'all. Did speak up. That gives you an idea of what he said on that quote right there.

00:26:23
Speaker 2: That was from Pauly Class's father. He said Newsom has secured the serial killer vote. So obviously he's upset. He wants to see his daughter's killer actually be executed for his crime. But I wonder if he actually thought that was going to happen anytime soon. I guess this just seals the deal to know that has to sting. If you had that expectation, you thought your daughter's killer was going to be executed by the state of California. And you probably had in your head one day, I'm going to walk into that execution chamber and I'm going to look him in the eye as he dies for what he did to my daughter. I can emotionally understand that desire because of the pain it comes from. And now to be told after you've had this in your head that maybe not now, maybe not five years from now, but one day before I die, I'm going to see him die. And then to be told, nope, never mind. We're not going to do it at all.

00:27:18
Speaker 1: You know, this is the part where a jury trial, a judge, all that took place. Our system worked. And now one guy has decided that all of that you sat through and that justice we told you about because I, Gavin Newsom, that's tough. He's not taking this well. That was just to give you an idea of how he was feeling. But he is really pissed about this. You're going to be hearing from him a lot. He will be on the news a lot over the next several days.

00:27:44
Speaker 2: I would imagine. Now, the state legislature, correct, still has to okay this and allow this to actually take place?

00:27:51
Speaker 1: Supreme Court.

00:27:52
Speaker 2: Supreme Court has to.

00:27:53
Speaker 1: Has to give an okay.

00:27:54
Speaker 2: The California Supreme Court.

00:27:56
Speaker 1: Or the U.S. Supreme Court? The California Supreme Court. The way they have this set up, Rose, they say if you have two felony convictions, then you have to actually have it The clemency has to be given the blessing of the court for some review. I didn't realize 70% of these folks.

00:28:12
Speaker 2: This wasn't their first offense. Murder was not their first offense. And so, yes, if they have another felony that they were convicted of, they actually have to go through another process before their sentences are fully commuted.

00:28:34
Speaker 1: Again, not sure how difficult that process is. Gavin Newsom said in his letter, didn't expect there to be much of an issue there. But this is a stunning development for, I didn't see this one necessarily coming. Didn't see the Chris Pike thing coming. Tennessee has a moratorium right now for the rest of the year. Things are happening. Alabama can't use its nitrogen gas anymore. Florida's kicking just fine. But Rose, even firing squads have been making headlines over the past couple of years. I don't know. We cover every single execution, so we feel it and we see it and we're engaged in it. I do feel something happening when it comes to the death penalty in this country.

00:29:15
Speaker 2: Right. I mean, I was just thinking, DeSantis, has he given up his suggestion that he might run for president at one point? I was just imagining a Newsom-DeSantis situation. And just interestingly, just how vehemently or diametrically opposed they are on this particular issue, how that would be so interesting, because certainly that would be all an was talking about.

00:29:41
Speaker 1: I could put that ad together for DeSantis. These are all the people I got off the streets and made sure families got justice. Here are the 548 murderers that Gavin Newsom wanted to save the life of. Boom.

00:30:00
Speaker 2: Gross. Really? That's it. Frankly, anyone who runs against, I mean, look, if it gets to a Republican running against Newsom, or really, frankly, maybe even a certain kind of Democrat, he knows that this was a bold decision, but this is absolutely going to hurt or help him in a presidential bid because people are going to have strong opinions about what he did and whether or not they support him.

00:30:30
Speaker 1: Might help him in the primary.

00:30:31
Speaker 2: It will definitely help him in the primary.

00:30:33
Speaker 1: Hurt him in the general.

00:30:34
Speaker 2: In the general election, not so sure. Now, you've got Catholics, and being a Catholic himself, I get that. My parents are devout Catholics, and they will tell you they are pro-life all around, and that includes death row inmates. But that's a very specific segment of the population, and generally speaking, look, it's pretty split down the middle.

00:30:56
Speaker 1: Life is life. though, right? There's value in some of these lives. We've done a bunch of these stories and some sentences have been commuted, very few, but robes and people still engaged in their daughters or their nieces and nephews' lives. There's value in a life, even a life that took another. Robes, I didn't remember. There's been a bunch of times that governors have done this in the U.S.

00:31:20
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.

00:31:21
Speaker 1: I had no idea, but what they call these mass commutations. I didn't even list all of them, but all of these are just in the past 20, 25 years.

00:31:30
Speaker 2: Just recently, in 2024, the North Carolina governor, Roy Cooper, he did the 15 commutations. In 2022, Kate Brown of Oregon did it.

00:31:39
Speaker 1: But the rest of them just flatly commuted everybody that they had on death row.

00:31:43
Speaker 2: Everyone on death row.

00:31:44
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:31:45
Speaker 2: Wow. So that's Oregon, Colorado, Maryland, Illinois, New Jersey, and Illinois again. Wow. Yeah.

00:31:51
Speaker 1: So there is precedent for this. But for the numbers in California, this is unprecedented. We see where we go from here. We're in November. How many executions left?

00:32:03
Speaker 2: Right now, as of this recording, we have three executions left. And so that will right now give Florida 21 executions for the year of 2026. That beats 2025's record of 19. And look, Governor DeSantis could still has a few more weeks potentially to sign some more death warrants. We shall see. But It's interesting just to see Governor Newsom go that direction, right, and commute everyone's death sentence and to watch DeSantis, as he gets out of office, do the exact opposite and just continue to sign his name on as many death warrants that come across his desk.

00:32:40
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if DeSantis was governor of California and had 548 names to go through? He might be doing one every other day.

00:32:51
Speaker 2: And then the question would be, would the crime rate go down? Would the murder rate go down? Is this actually any sort of... Right now, the way the system is, it is not a deterrent because it's just the process. 30, 40, even 50 years from the time you're convicted and sentenced to death to the time you actually walk into that death chamber. But look, it's gotten scarier when you hear about Krista Pike. And if you're a death row inmate, that will keep you up at night.

00:33:16
Speaker 1: But also, this isn't going to get worse. Any argument being made, now that Governor Newsom has made this announcement, criminals aren't out there going, oh, it's open season now.

00:33:24
Speaker 2: Right, exactly. And look, it's never been proven. It has never been proven that the death penalty is a deterrent. Obviously, just look at other countries from a percentage-wise, how many murders we take the cake. And we're the ones who have the death penalty, and we have the highest murder rate.

00:33:42
Speaker 1: We got the guns, too, though.

00:33:43
Speaker 2: We certainly do.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: We have more guns than people in this country.

00:33:46
Speaker 2: Wow, I... I'm not sure, but I hate hearing that, and it sadly does not surprise me.

00:33:51
Speaker 1: All right.

00:33:52
Speaker 2: All right, and with that, everyone, look.

00:33:54
Speaker 1: Apologies again.

00:33:54
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, you've got to get some rest this weekend, but we always appreciate you. I'm Amy. That's TJ. We'll see you soon.