Aug. 12, 2026
BREAKING: Karoline Leavitt OUT As WH Press Secretary, Weeks After Returning
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RSS Feed In a surprising statement, 28-year-old Karoline Leavitt has just announced she will be resigning her role as White House Press Secretary at the end of the month. Leavitt just returned from maternity leave after the birth of her second child mid July but, in her announcement, said she felt in her heart she couldn’t be the mom she wants to be and, at the same time devote the constant time and energy required of the job.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Wednesday, August twelfth. Carolyn Levitt is out, and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. A bit of a shocker today, rhopes. Just a short time ago, before this recording, Carolyn Levitt, the White House Press Secretary, said she is leaving.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: I didn't see this one. Did I miss something?
00:00:24
Speaker 3: No, this is unexpected, just because she had just come back from maternity leave. So that's why this does feel abrupt and unexpected, because, look, it would one would think if she was in this headspace or was considering stepping down. It is a high pressured job that's hard for anyone to even get their head around just how you have to be available.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Twenty four to seven.
00:00:54
Speaker 3: You are at the President's beck and call, you have to deal in an incredible stressful situation, dealing with the White House Press Corps, and you got a newborn, you got a toddler.
00:01:06
Speaker 2: So I'm just shocked.
00:01:08
Speaker 3: If she was thinking about this why she came back from Attorney Lea.
00:01:12
Speaker 1: It was the first thing you said, and I think that was not something of I don't know, maybe some men do. I hate to do it like that, but it was the first thing out of your mouth, like why did she come back? So it's that lends itself and I don't know. I don't like to speculate for the purpose of something malicious for Oh, it's not that, but like what happened?
00:01:30
Speaker 2: You do wonder?
00:01:31
Speaker 1: You do think Robes that this wasn't on she came back not I guess Robes. Here's the thing. She came back not considering that she'd be leaving. Is what it feels like.
00:01:42
Speaker 2: Yes, that's so this.
00:01:44
Speaker 3: Look when a woman goes and has her first shop, but when she has her second child, it's not double the work, it's like quadruple the work, because when you've got two kids and you're trying to deal it's it's so much harder than just having one and a newborn and a toddler together. Look, any mom who's been there knows how hard it is to juggle work and that age of children. And look, a job's a job. This is more like a lifestyle when you're a press secretary.
00:02:11
Speaker 2: But she knows that.
00:02:12
Speaker 3: She knows what the job entail, she knows what her work schedule was like, and so I'm just curious why she would have even come back at all.
00:02:22
Speaker 2: From eternity.
00:02:22
Speaker 1: Can I ask as a woman you were talking about this recently and it stood out to me because it's not where a man's.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: Head or where my head.
00:02:31
Speaker 1: I'll just say that went when you were talking about like women are always aware of what other women think of them as mothers. That's a very, very big deal you were talking about. It is so for a woman like this Robes. It's high profile that has such a demanding job. I've heard you talk about this with your own kids, to where you got one kid and you're missing some recitals, you're missing some PTA meetings and that's difficult. Is there a possibility would you be open right the suggestion that now that she's got a second kid, she feels almost twice as inadequate of a mom. You know what I'm saying, because you I've heard you talk about. I'm not making an indictment of her as a mother.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Oh, no, psycha think you sound like that at all?
00:03:21
Speaker 1: The psyche of a mother you've talked about in recent days on some other some completely different things that I didn't recognize to where roll she's she's absent a lot. We know that because we see her and what she does with a second kid. Now, did any little guilt anything she might have had about being absent for that one kid now get doubled or quadruple more than doubles?
00:03:49
Speaker 2: Does that? Yes, you know what I'm asking.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: Look, this is any mom who works outside of the home.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: And I say that because every.
00:03:55
Speaker 3: Mom works her butt off, whether it's inside the home or outside the home. But when you have to leave your children to earn a paycheck, there is tremendous guilt associated with that. I and I think a lot of moms. I didn't have the choice. And I'm not saying poor me in any way, shape or form, but I think we've talked about this. When you're the main provider of the family, you don't have the option to not work. But I will absolutely say like it could make me emotional. Now that my girls are I'm an empty nester, I look back and think I wish I could have spent more time with them.
00:04:34
Speaker 2: I think about all that time that was lost while I.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Was working and I was providing, and I was hoping to have set an example. But every time I went on a work trip, every time I wasn't there when they needed me, when they were sick. I felt responsible and guilty and awful and terrible.
00:04:52
Speaker 1: So we have to robes and we are going to read her statement, and it is a lengthy one. Robes having a second, what you're talking about?
00:05:02
Speaker 2: What Emmy?
00:05:03
Speaker 1: This had to I obviously, and she suggested that in her in her statement and what she's saying, Yeah, she.
00:05:09
Speaker 3: Might have bit off more than she could choose. She she was balancing it with one kid. It was probably hard. Now you add another kid and it's just too much. I was actually looking back on the day she came back to work from maternity leave.
00:05:24
Speaker 2: That's always an emotional day.
00:05:25
Speaker 3: I remember the first day back from maternity leave with Ava. My first was the first day with the war with a Rock and I was at the Pentagon in an armored building and my cell phone didn't work, and I was spiraling because I couldn't be in constant contact with a person I left my most precious, most valuable gift with And it was torture, but I did.
00:05:49
Speaker 2: What I had to do.
00:05:50
Speaker 3: She's in that same situation, but luckily she has the freedom financially, I would imagine to be able to make this choice. But on July sixteenth, she said let's get back to work, and she returned to the briefing room podium the first time since she went on maternity leave. We're less than a month later and she's saying bye. So obviously something happened, whether it was within her and it was personal, or it was something that we don't know about that was professional.
00:06:24
Speaker 2: But it seems highly likely.
00:06:27
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say highly likely, It is absolutely possible and probable maybe even that this was her choice because once she got back to work, she realized that her heart wasn't in it, that her heart was back at home, and because she has the option financially to walk away, she could, and she knows she's so young. This isn't the end of her political career. She's laid a phenomenal foundation in terms of name recognition and her ability to.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: Star with the best and the brightest in the world.
00:06:57
Speaker 3: So she can take a pause for a couple of years, get her kids to maybe be school aged, and then re enter the politic political world. I do think that that is a very likely reason. Look, I know we're always skeptical when people say I'm resigning to spend more time with my family. That oftentimes is code for I got fired. Something went down that y'all don't know about.
00:07:20
Speaker 2: I don't.
00:07:21
Speaker 3: I mean, I love space for that. But this seems this makes sense.
00:07:26
Speaker 2: Which order do you want to do this?
00:07:27
Speaker 1: So I think we got the president's statement first, he was the one that made the announcement before hers even went up. But which order should we do this? In her statement first or the president's? Maybe we should do hers. It's it's her day. Yeah, it's her stayment. But she does have a lengthy statement.
00:07:40
Speaker 3: Here, and can I just also say it because I seeing how long it is, this is also a telltale hallmark sign of a guilty mom, like you feel like you have to over explain everything.
00:07:52
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have thought that that makes sense. This is a lengthy statement.
00:07:55
Speaker 3: When I saw just how long it was, I thought, you know what, more confirmation to me that this is about being a mom.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she feels like she has to explain herself. And she's young.
00:08:08
Speaker 1: She's young, the youngest in the history, the youngest press secretary we've ever had. And if you have to rogues whatever, people forget what your politics for a second. This is a twenty eight year old woman who is the face of the United States outside of Trump. She is the spokesperson for the United States of America. And I know it's this administration, but she is. It rove to think of a twenty eight year old carrying that responsibility.
00:08:37
Speaker 2: I am impressed by her.
00:08:40
Speaker 3: And has understand lasted twice as long as any other press secretary. I believe that is a true statement. All right, here's what Carolyn Levitt, And we might want to break it up.
00:08:51
Speaker 1: It is so long, but she skip the stuff you think that should Yeah, that needs to be skipped.
00:08:56
Speaker 3: True, we can kind of like paraphrase some of the less important stuff. But she said she began serving as the White House Press secretary over the past year and a half has been the honor and adventure of a lifetime. I am incredibly grateful to President Trump for granting me so many extraordinary opportunities, such as working in the West Wing and spending countless hours in the Oval Office, flying around the world and meeting foreign leaders, and traveling across our beautiful country and meeting Americans from all walks of life.
00:09:25
Speaker 1: To your point, you can skip this next paragraph get to the one about being a mother.
00:09:28
Speaker 2: You're right. She just continues to praise the President in the next one.
00:09:31
Speaker 3: Yes, job security for when she comes back. Being a mother and welcoming a new baby while working in one of the most demanding jobs in the world has been the most rewarding yet challenging season of my life, to say the least. The truth is, since returning to the White House after the birth of my daughter, I have felt in my heart that I cannot be the best mom my two young children deserve while devoting the constant time, energy, and attention required of the White House Press Secretary. And that is why I have ultimately made the bitter s week decision to depart the White House and embark on a new chapter in my life.
00:10:05
Speaker 1: I could do a whole episode, and I would like to talk to you fully just about that paragraph, just about that paragraph. I am fascinated, I am moved, I am torn, I am upset, I am disappointed. I want to applaud all these things that why can't she have both?
00:10:25
Speaker 2: You can't?
00:10:25
Speaker 1: You can't And that is only a choice that a woman has to make. This is this is a job that people in their seventies today would fight to have. She's twenty eight and she's given it up with a man that's twenty eight, that has his job ever have to give it up? That it's the father of two is absolutely the follow up the father of seven.
00:10:50
Speaker 2: He wouldn't even consider having to would that?
00:10:54
Speaker 1: Is this that way? That is a heartbreaking paragraph. I'm proud of her, I am I'm happy for her, and I am devastated for her at the same time. This is this is a stunning story to me, babe, because of that paragraph.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: And see it's not stunning to me at all.
00:11:10
Speaker 1: I'm just it's it hurts, that sucks because this ain't politics at all.
00:11:17
Speaker 2: I am impressed by that woman. I am so now.
00:11:19
Speaker 3: Whether you agree with what she says or how she says that she has.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Held what she's spout, whatever, it's impressive that she's held it together this long. I am impressed by this woman, and I hate that she can't do both things you can't have. She is giving up the job of a lifetime baby.
00:11:42
Speaker 2: I get it.
00:11:43
Speaker 3: I hate most women have given up job opportunities because of being a mom. I gave up being the White House correspondent that she White House correspondent at NBC News because I had two young kids and I was in the middle of a divorce, explain how I was gonna possibly take on a role like that. There are dream jobs that women cannot take except or continue in because they understand that their children will suffer.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: There is never a family circumstance that factored into a single job opportunity I ever had to make.
00:12:18
Speaker 2: And that's an honest statement. It just is, I don't have to stop and think well at one time, so I have multiple, even multiple moments.
00:12:26
Speaker 1: I mean a little one she again to school, she had to move it. Nope, no, there there's nothing I have to think about. But I'm just this is stunning because of the level she's at. Baby, to you and to a lot of women like yes, this on every level, I just think it's a damn shame. I guess, yes, on any level, but it's it's highlighted now at this level that wow, even.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: She she can't hold.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: On to a dream, unbelievable job because she has to go be a mother.
00:13:02
Speaker 2: Excuse me. She chooses to be, she chooses.
00:13:05
Speaker 1: To be, but she's as if she's not allowed to make the choice to do both.
00:13:10
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, I freely.
00:13:11
Speaker 3: Do, right, But I do think that they're a is societal But I also think it's in your heart too.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: Like I can't.
00:13:19
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like to be a father and the connection you feel to your child. But when you carry a child in your stomach and you grow that baby and you go through the pain of giving birth to that baby, that baby is.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: Literally an extension of your body. I'm not talking about the hard strings baby.
00:13:37
Speaker 1: I am talking about society allowing a man to go do what he wants because there's going to be a woman at home taking care of shit. This is what I'm talking about, a man robes. I am saddened that a twenty year old, twenty eight year old super.
00:13:55
Speaker 2: Ro she's the White House freaking press secretary at twenty eight, and she can't keep the job if she wants to have kids.
00:14:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I remember my mom asking me to delay having kids because she saw my career and she knew what a struggle it would be and what a pull and a tug at my heart it would be. And she said, I know you want to have kids eventually, but hold off as long as you can, like, just get your career settled and set before you start having babies, because everything changes now.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at the rest of her statement, and actually, Robes, I'm pointing out and put so much emphasis on that last paragraph. The rest of it really is about praising the president and the work that needs to be done the cabinet and the staff, and there's not a lot more personal stuff in there. But she does mention that she was asked by President Trump to continue serving as a top advisor to him on the outside. I will always remain a vocal advocate for MAGA and the Republican Party. But she goes on and she's just praising the President, the administration and whatnot. The president was the one though, however, Robes who did give us originally the announcement that she was setting down And.
00:15:02
Speaker 3: I want to read that, But I actually wanted to read the last line because I thought this was interesting to me.
00:15:07
Speaker 2: This is how Carolyn Levitt signed off.
00:15:08
Speaker 3: She said, and of course, thank you, most especially to my loving and supportive husband and family for the sacrifices.
00:15:15
Speaker 2: They made for me to serve in this role.
00:15:18
Speaker 3: Again into the mindset that him being a father was a sacrifice, or anything he did to step up was a sacrifice so that she could be in the role she was in.
00:15:29
Speaker 1: I have ah I guess I've seen semblances of this something like this, men thanking their wives and their families, thank you all for putting up with me. No, you don't see it in that way, Robes. It's as if you all gave something up, like my family suffered in some way for me to do this.
00:15:53
Speaker 2: Ah, that sucks.
00:15:56
Speaker 1: And a lot of mines, a lot of people's and I guess husband's robes and families. The husbands think, a right, you're gone, you're sacrifice. You're you're not serving this family by being out there. Meanwhile, a man is serving his family by being.
00:16:14
Speaker 2: Things out there and there. You just hit it, you you just hit it on the head. That is okay.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: Now, I didn't know I was gonna hate this story as much as I No, I just hate how this has gone down. But stay here, we're not done. We're gonna let you hear what the president originally posted about it. And there is Robes a couple of questions I have to ask for you about this in particular, and Robes, is this something we should be applauding that what she did? And also Robes the question of what this does do to the conversation moving forward?
00:16:50
Speaker 2: Does it hurt or does it help? Stay here? Folks?
00:17:04
Speaker 1: All right, we continue here on. You want to say the last thing I said to you before we said it's left up.
00:17:10
Speaker 2: And look, this is an age old debate.
00:17:15
Speaker 3: And look, I actually think sometimes this debate falls along party lines in many ways, because there is a big group of this country, a large segment of this country, who believes that part of the the the unraveling of family values can be directly equated to women working outside of the home. There are plenty of folks who believe that, whether it's a political belief, whether it's a religious belief, whether it's just a.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Deeply held belief in your own family.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: But it is tough on women because it's one of those you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, And not everybody has the freedom to choose between the two. And so it's if you're a woman who's working outside the home, you're being selfish because it's about your power, your control, your money, your independence. But if a man does that right, he's providing switch it up, and a woman who stays home is giving up her career, giving up her aspirations, giving up her possibilities. And is sacrificing. It's just it's tough. I wish we could live in a world where both parents were given equal responsibility and whatever works for your family, that's amazing for you. But I do think we try to put this on women and the age old debate is and I think a lot of women have landed on this.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: You can't have it all.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: There are sacrifices that have to be made if you can't be there for your kids, and there are sacrifices that have to be made if you can't be at the office.
00:18:45
Speaker 1: As well as the next thing in that debate robes is why doesn't a man have to make that same sacrifice?
00:18:51
Speaker 2: Exactly, I don't have to make that choice.
00:18:52
Speaker 3: And whoever is the higher earner, it would make the most sense that that person is providing for the family and the person who is more able to be at.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: Home, whether it's the man or the woman.
00:19:05
Speaker 3: But there are people who believe that there is something about a mother's love, the maternal instinct that a baby or a young child needs more. And I don't know if that's fair to men and fathers. Are are we minimizing their role, their impact, their ability to love and nurture, so men get the short end of the stick when it comes to that as well.
00:19:25
Speaker 1: Where do you fall on this in terms of applauding her move or not not a criticism of her, but are do as far as applauding that she made like, Wow, what a mother and she made this sacrifice, or do you fall in the camp of what a damn shame that she had to make this sacrifice professionally to be a mother.
00:19:54
Speaker 2: I'm in between both of those sentiments.
00:19:58
Speaker 3: I feel some of both of those feelings. There's a part of me that feels bad for her that she's having to take a step back in her career, that she's having to to not maybe go as far or be what she could be professionally because she's taking a step back as a mom.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: But I also applaud her choice to follow.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: If this is in her heart and she wants to be with her kids more than she wants to be in front of that at some point, and sometimes it's got to be tough to constantly be facing people who are questioning you and challenging you, and you've got to constantly be on your toes with the ability and the information to push back, fight back against a press corps that can be adversarial at times, if not oftentimes right. And so maybe this is like exactly what she wanted and she didn't know what until she came back. Maybe she had to come back and say, ooh, this is not where I want to be this, I want see me at home. And so if that is what is in her heart, and she's following her heart, and again she has the financial means to be able to do so, I not only applaud her, I congratulate her.
00:21:12
Speaker 1: Okay, then now tell me about the messaging. This is a really high profile woman with a really impressive, high profile job, and she is young, baby, she is twenty eight. What I mean, how does this play out in terms of messaging to other women out there, young women, young mothers, young potential mothers, of how she do you?
00:21:36
Speaker 2: Are? They going, Wow, that's brave of her. They go, oh God, what hope do I have? Like? What what I think?
00:21:42
Speaker 3: People saying both, I think you Look, I will tell you this. It's so interesting. You and I talk to college students, and we have plenty of times over our careers. The number one thing every single young college age or even in turn came up to me and asked when they saw my job when I was working at ABC News and I was on a plane once a week, and I had been in that.
00:22:02
Speaker 2: Type of.
00:22:04
Speaker 3: Jet setting, long hour week kind of position throughout my kid's entire lives. They asked, me, Holy hell, how did you do it? How are you doing it? And can I do it too? Can I have a family and do what you do. That's the one thing that makes me nervous about becoming a journalist or being on television or doing anything like this, because I'm so afraid I won't be able to be a mom too. And I used to always say you can do both, but they but you will. You won't be able to bring it all to each and so you have to have a community around you, whether it's at work, whether it's at home, But you have to have support.
00:22:45
Speaker 2: You cannot be what you need.
00:22:49
Speaker 3: To be for your job to give it your one hundred percent and at the same time do that for your kids as a mom, as a woman. But I am telling you this is an age old question, an age old dilemma. And as women are more educated, as women have bigger and better and higher paying positions, it continually becomes a dilemma for young women who want to have families, who want to be moms, who want.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: To have kids but also have a professional dream. It's hard, It just is.
00:23:17
Speaker 3: And I think this decision needs to be so individual, and I think we need to support women in whatevers and say you made the right call for you, Good for you.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: That's where I land. But it's not easy. You know that.
00:23:34
Speaker 1: You know how engaged I am with college students, my alma mater, the number of speeches I've given on college campuses and talking to college students, going to NABJ, talking to young journalists robes. In twenty five plus years, not a single young man has come to me and asked me how to balance the career with family. Not a single time. And to hear you say, it's like the number one thing.
00:24:04
Speaker 2: It's the number one question one time.
00:24:08
Speaker 1: So that to your point that you've been making the entire episode, yep.
00:24:12
Speaker 2: And I remember kind of feeling.
00:24:14
Speaker 3: I remember seeing the relief on some of these young, bright eyed, bushy tailed wannabe journalists saying, oh my god, so you figured it out. I can too, because they're just so nervous that they won't be able to have it all. And I've said, then't me, don't let me fool you. You won't be able to have it all. You will cry on your way to the airport. You will cry in that hotel room that night when you FaceTime your kids from around the world, halfway around the world, knowing you're not there, and making dinner for them. Yes, but I do also believe that there is value in, yes, providing for your family, but also showing, especially your young daughters, that they can still manage both. And look, I think my daughters will tell you that, yes, there were times when they missed me and they wished I were home, but they say they have a mom that they could always look up to and be proud of.
00:25:02
Speaker 2: And so look, you lose a little, but you gain a lot.
00:25:05
Speaker 3: And I just think it's about whatever works for the dynamic you have in your family and in your household. But it's tough, and you're right, it's not fair. The same rules do not apply to men.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: I just hated for No, I say I hate it for it. That's me she'd be happy for She's making the call that works for her, and she's going to be happy moving forward. Congratulations to her. This isn't about politics sometimes growths. I'm just you've got to call it what it is. And we've been around all these people our entire careers and folks like that who get those jobs. We understand how difficult it is. We understand the pressure she's under, we understand robes, and no matter what, even she's not giving you the answer you want or giving you an answer at all, you can still understand and respect.
00:25:51
Speaker 2: What that role is.
00:25:53
Speaker 1: And I also respect the president she has to work under. What I'm saying is I respect how difficult job. I respect that she seemed to.
00:26:03
Speaker 2: Relish it too.
00:26:04
Speaker 3: I think that might be why you feel the way you're feeling, because it didn't seem like she didn't want to be there and.
00:26:10
Speaker 2: She was exhausted. She seemed to be energized by it.
00:26:13
Speaker 1: I think, are you going to be able to come up with the line she messed up on day one?
00:26:17
Speaker 2: I do have it.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: There's a weird thing people do when you get nervous and you just move words around in the sentence, And she did something on day one that was just hilarious. It was I don't even know if it was embarrassing. Everybody caught it, but we said, oh my god, and we laughed and we wrote it down. Yes, I got you for being here with us, is what she was trying to say, right right, okay, But instead she said this is.
00:26:45
Speaker 3: Her opening line as press secretary, first day on the job, she said, thanks for being us with here.
00:26:50
Speaker 2: She did, she said that to some journals. We paused it, we rewound it twenty times.
00:26:55
Speaker 3: Yeah. Laugh because I do that too when I'm nervous. I put words in the wrong place and I don't even know I did it. And you can tell she had no idea she did it. I do this constantly. It was It was endearing to you know what.
00:27:08
Speaker 2: That did endure us to her, us to her.
00:27:10
Speaker 1: And again it's not about politics at all, Gunna Messer, Gunna Messer, but congratulations to her, the new family, the new baby, and hope things go well.
00:27:21
Speaker 2: But just the update. We haven't given her the presidents. Oh we need to say with the president do we do.
00:27:27
Speaker 1: You even want to? I mean I'm kidding, yes, of course we need to. You're right, of course we need to. I'm just saying, this is her moment.
00:27:32
Speaker 2: Do we need hear? But yes, go ahead. I like how we end it. That's what he said about her.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: He said, our wonderful White House Press secretary and one of my most trusted aids, Carolyn Lovett will be departing her role at the end of the month so she can spend more time with her beautiful young children and family, a decision I totally understand and respect. Carolyn will now be one of my top outside advisors and an influential voice within the Republican Party as we work to defy history and conclusively with the midterm election. Carolyn has been a real leader in the White House and has done a phenomenal job fighting for justice, liberty, and freedom since twenty eighteen, including our historic re election campaign of twenty twenty four. Carolyn has been one of the best White House Press secretaries in the history of the office. Thank you, Carolyn for a job well done. That was a very very nice parting.
00:28:22
Speaker 2: Goodbye, very nice note it was, and.
00:28:25
Speaker 3: She's not look her children will be in school in a couple of years, both of them, and I think that is usually a moment in which someone like Carolyn Lovett will have an opportunity to re emerge if she so chooses, and do.
00:28:40
Speaker 1: I have She's leaving at the end of this month, end of August, the end of this month, alright, so congrats to her, but just wanted to give you the update that story breaking just moments before actually we hopped on. So appreciate you, as always folks spending a little time with us.
00:28:53
Speaker 2: I'm TJ. That's Rogues.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: We'll talk to the tech produce, the kitchen
Speaker 1: Hey, the folks, it is Wednesday, August twelfth. Carolyn Levitt is out, and with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. A bit of a shocker today, rhopes. Just a short time ago, before this recording, Carolyn Levitt, the White House Press Secretary, said she is leaving.
00:00:21
Speaker 2: I didn't see this one. Did I miss something?
00:00:24
Speaker 3: No, this is unexpected, just because she had just come back from maternity leave. So that's why this does feel abrupt and unexpected, because, look, it would one would think if she was in this headspace or was considering stepping down. It is a high pressured job that's hard for anyone to even get their head around just how you have to be available.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Twenty four to seven.
00:00:54
Speaker 3: You are at the President's beck and call, you have to deal in an incredible stressful situation, dealing with the White House Press Corps, and you got a newborn, you got a toddler.
00:01:06
Speaker 2: So I'm just shocked.
00:01:08
Speaker 3: If she was thinking about this why she came back from Attorney Lea.
00:01:12
Speaker 1: It was the first thing you said, and I think that was not something of I don't know, maybe some men do. I hate to do it like that, but it was the first thing out of your mouth, like why did she come back? So it's that lends itself and I don't know. I don't like to speculate for the purpose of something malicious for Oh, it's not that, but like what happened?
00:01:30
Speaker 2: You do wonder?
00:01:31
Speaker 1: You do think Robes that this wasn't on she came back not I guess Robes. Here's the thing. She came back not considering that she'd be leaving. Is what it feels like.
00:01:42
Speaker 2: Yes, that's so this.
00:01:44
Speaker 3: Look when a woman goes and has her first shop, but when she has her second child, it's not double the work, it's like quadruple the work, because when you've got two kids and you're trying to deal it's it's so much harder than just having one and a newborn and a toddler together. Look, any mom who's been there knows how hard it is to juggle work and that age of children. And look, a job's a job. This is more like a lifestyle when you're a press secretary.
00:02:11
Speaker 2: But she knows that.
00:02:12
Speaker 3: She knows what the job entail, she knows what her work schedule was like, and so I'm just curious why she would have even come back at all.
00:02:22
Speaker 2: From eternity.
00:02:22
Speaker 1: Can I ask as a woman you were talking about this recently and it stood out to me because it's not where a man's.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: Head or where my head.
00:02:31
Speaker 1: I'll just say that went when you were talking about like women are always aware of what other women think of them as mothers. That's a very, very big deal you were talking about. It is so for a woman like this Robes. It's high profile that has such a demanding job. I've heard you talk about this with your own kids, to where you got one kid and you're missing some recitals, you're missing some PTA meetings and that's difficult. Is there a possibility would you be open right the suggestion that now that she's got a second kid, she feels almost twice as inadequate of a mom. You know what I'm saying, because you I've heard you talk about. I'm not making an indictment of her as a mother.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Oh, no, psycha think you sound like that at all?
00:03:21
Speaker 1: The psyche of a mother you've talked about in recent days on some other some completely different things that I didn't recognize to where roll she's she's absent a lot. We know that because we see her and what she does with a second kid. Now, did any little guilt anything she might have had about being absent for that one kid now get doubled or quadruple more than doubles?
00:03:49
Speaker 2: Does that? Yes, you know what I'm asking.
00:03:51
Speaker 3: Look, this is any mom who works outside of the home.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: And I say that because every.
00:03:55
Speaker 3: Mom works her butt off, whether it's inside the home or outside the home. But when you have to leave your children to earn a paycheck, there is tremendous guilt associated with that. I and I think a lot of moms. I didn't have the choice. And I'm not saying poor me in any way, shape or form, but I think we've talked about this. When you're the main provider of the family, you don't have the option to not work. But I will absolutely say like it could make me emotional. Now that my girls are I'm an empty nester, I look back and think I wish I could have spent more time with them.
00:04:34
Speaker 2: I think about all that time that was lost while I.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Was working and I was providing, and I was hoping to have set an example. But every time I went on a work trip, every time I wasn't there when they needed me, when they were sick. I felt responsible and guilty and awful and terrible.
00:04:52
Speaker 1: So we have to robes and we are going to read her statement, and it is a lengthy one. Robes having a second, what you're talking about?
00:05:02
Speaker 2: What Emmy?
00:05:03
Speaker 1: This had to I obviously, and she suggested that in her in her statement and what she's saying, Yeah, she.
00:05:09
Speaker 3: Might have bit off more than she could choose. She she was balancing it with one kid. It was probably hard. Now you add another kid and it's just too much. I was actually looking back on the day she came back to work from maternity leave.
00:05:24
Speaker 2: That's always an emotional day.
00:05:25
Speaker 3: I remember the first day back from maternity leave with Ava. My first was the first day with the war with a Rock and I was at the Pentagon in an armored building and my cell phone didn't work, and I was spiraling because I couldn't be in constant contact with a person I left my most precious, most valuable gift with And it was torture, but I did.
00:05:49
Speaker 2: What I had to do.
00:05:50
Speaker 3: She's in that same situation, but luckily she has the freedom financially, I would imagine to be able to make this choice. But on July sixteenth, she said let's get back to work, and she returned to the briefing room podium the first time since she went on maternity leave. We're less than a month later and she's saying bye. So obviously something happened, whether it was within her and it was personal, or it was something that we don't know about that was professional.
00:06:24
Speaker 2: But it seems highly likely.
00:06:27
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say highly likely, It is absolutely possible and probable maybe even that this was her choice because once she got back to work, she realized that her heart wasn't in it, that her heart was back at home, and because she has the option financially to walk away, she could, and she knows she's so young. This isn't the end of her political career. She's laid a phenomenal foundation in terms of name recognition and her ability to.
00:06:54
Speaker 2: Star with the best and the brightest in the world.
00:06:57
Speaker 3: So she can take a pause for a couple of years, get her kids to maybe be school aged, and then re enter the politic political world. I do think that that is a very likely reason. Look, I know we're always skeptical when people say I'm resigning to spend more time with my family. That oftentimes is code for I got fired. Something went down that y'all don't know about.
00:07:20
Speaker 2: I don't.
00:07:21
Speaker 3: I mean, I love space for that. But this seems this makes sense.
00:07:26
Speaker 2: Which order do you want to do this?
00:07:27
Speaker 1: So I think we got the president's statement first, he was the one that made the announcement before hers even went up. But which order should we do this? In her statement first or the president's? Maybe we should do hers. It's it's her day. Yeah, it's her stayment. But she does have a lengthy statement.
00:07:40
Speaker 3: Here, and can I just also say it because I seeing how long it is, this is also a telltale hallmark sign of a guilty mom, like you feel like you have to over explain everything.
00:07:52
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have thought that that makes sense. This is a lengthy statement.
00:07:55
Speaker 3: When I saw just how long it was, I thought, you know what, more confirmation to me that this is about being a mom.
00:08:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she feels like she has to explain herself. And she's young.
00:08:08
Speaker 1: She's young, the youngest in the history, the youngest press secretary we've ever had. And if you have to rogues whatever, people forget what your politics for a second. This is a twenty eight year old woman who is the face of the United States outside of Trump. She is the spokesperson for the United States of America. And I know it's this administration, but she is. It rove to think of a twenty eight year old carrying that responsibility.
00:08:37
Speaker 2: I am impressed by her.
00:08:40
Speaker 3: And has understand lasted twice as long as any other press secretary. I believe that is a true statement. All right, here's what Carolyn Levitt, And we might want to break it up.
00:08:51
Speaker 1: It is so long, but she skip the stuff you think that should Yeah, that needs to be skipped.
00:08:56
Speaker 3: True, we can kind of like paraphrase some of the less important stuff. But she said she began serving as the White House Press secretary over the past year and a half has been the honor and adventure of a lifetime. I am incredibly grateful to President Trump for granting me so many extraordinary opportunities, such as working in the West Wing and spending countless hours in the Oval Office, flying around the world and meeting foreign leaders, and traveling across our beautiful country and meeting Americans from all walks of life.
00:09:25
Speaker 1: To your point, you can skip this next paragraph get to the one about being a mother.
00:09:28
Speaker 2: You're right. She just continues to praise the President in the next one.
00:09:31
Speaker 3: Yes, job security for when she comes back. Being a mother and welcoming a new baby while working in one of the most demanding jobs in the world has been the most rewarding yet challenging season of my life, to say the least. The truth is, since returning to the White House after the birth of my daughter, I have felt in my heart that I cannot be the best mom my two young children deserve while devoting the constant time, energy, and attention required of the White House Press Secretary. And that is why I have ultimately made the bitter s week decision to depart the White House and embark on a new chapter in my life.
00:10:05
Speaker 1: I could do a whole episode, and I would like to talk to you fully just about that paragraph, just about that paragraph. I am fascinated, I am moved, I am torn, I am upset, I am disappointed. I want to applaud all these things that why can't she have both?
00:10:25
Speaker 2: You can't?
00:10:25
Speaker 1: You can't And that is only a choice that a woman has to make. This is this is a job that people in their seventies today would fight to have. She's twenty eight and she's given it up with a man that's twenty eight, that has his job ever have to give it up? That it's the father of two is absolutely the follow up the father of seven.
00:10:50
Speaker 2: He wouldn't even consider having to would that?
00:10:54
Speaker 1: Is this that way? That is a heartbreaking paragraph. I'm proud of her, I am I'm happy for her, and I am devastated for her at the same time. This is this is a stunning story to me, babe, because of that paragraph.
00:11:08
Speaker 2: And see it's not stunning to me at all.
00:11:10
Speaker 1: I'm just it's it hurts, that sucks because this ain't politics at all.
00:11:17
Speaker 2: I am impressed by that woman. I am so now.
00:11:19
Speaker 3: Whether you agree with what she says or how she says that she has.
00:11:23
Speaker 1: Held what she's spout, whatever, it's impressive that she's held it together this long. I am impressed by this woman, and I hate that she can't do both things you can't have. She is giving up the job of a lifetime baby.
00:11:42
Speaker 2: I get it.
00:11:43
Speaker 3: I hate most women have given up job opportunities because of being a mom. I gave up being the White House correspondent that she White House correspondent at NBC News because I had two young kids and I was in the middle of a divorce, explain how I was gonna possibly take on a role like that. There are dream jobs that women cannot take except or continue in because they understand that their children will suffer.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: There is never a family circumstance that factored into a single job opportunity I ever had to make.
00:12:18
Speaker 2: And that's an honest statement. It just is, I don't have to stop and think well at one time, so I have multiple, even multiple moments.
00:12:26
Speaker 1: I mean a little one she again to school, she had to move it. Nope, no, there there's nothing I have to think about. But I'm just this is stunning because of the level she's at. Baby, to you and to a lot of women like yes, this on every level, I just think it's a damn shame. I guess, yes, on any level, but it's it's highlighted now at this level that wow, even.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: She she can't hold.
00:12:57
Speaker 1: On to a dream, unbelievable job because she has to go be a mother.
00:13:02
Speaker 2: Excuse me. She chooses to be, she chooses.
00:13:05
Speaker 1: To be, but she's as if she's not allowed to make the choice to do both.
00:13:10
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, I freely.
00:13:11
Speaker 3: Do, right, But I do think that they're a is societal But I also think it's in your heart too.
00:13:18
Speaker 2: Like I can't.
00:13:19
Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like to be a father and the connection you feel to your child. But when you carry a child in your stomach and you grow that baby and you go through the pain of giving birth to that baby, that baby is.
00:13:31
Speaker 2: Literally an extension of your body. I'm not talking about the hard strings baby.
00:13:37
Speaker 1: I am talking about society allowing a man to go do what he wants because there's going to be a woman at home taking care of shit. This is what I'm talking about, a man robes. I am saddened that a twenty year old, twenty eight year old super.
00:13:55
Speaker 2: Ro she's the White House freaking press secretary at twenty eight, and she can't keep the job if she wants to have kids.
00:14:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I remember my mom asking me to delay having kids because she saw my career and she knew what a struggle it would be and what a pull and a tug at my heart it would be. And she said, I know you want to have kids eventually, but hold off as long as you can, like, just get your career settled and set before you start having babies, because everything changes now.
00:14:27
Speaker 1: And I'm looking at the rest of her statement, and actually, Robes, I'm pointing out and put so much emphasis on that last paragraph. The rest of it really is about praising the president and the work that needs to be done the cabinet and the staff, and there's not a lot more personal stuff in there. But she does mention that she was asked by President Trump to continue serving as a top advisor to him on the outside. I will always remain a vocal advocate for MAGA and the Republican Party. But she goes on and she's just praising the President, the administration and whatnot. The president was the one though, however, Robes who did give us originally the announcement that she was setting down And.
00:15:02
Speaker 3: I want to read that, But I actually wanted to read the last line because I thought this was interesting to me.
00:15:07
Speaker 2: This is how Carolyn Levitt signed off.
00:15:08
Speaker 3: She said, and of course, thank you, most especially to my loving and supportive husband and family for the sacrifices.
00:15:15
Speaker 2: They made for me to serve in this role.
00:15:18
Speaker 3: Again into the mindset that him being a father was a sacrifice, or anything he did to step up was a sacrifice so that she could be in the role she was in.
00:15:29
Speaker 1: I have ah I guess I've seen semblances of this something like this, men thanking their wives and their families, thank you all for putting up with me. No, you don't see it in that way, Robes. It's as if you all gave something up, like my family suffered in some way for me to do this.
00:15:53
Speaker 2: Ah, that sucks.
00:15:56
Speaker 1: And a lot of mines, a lot of people's and I guess husband's robes and families. The husbands think, a right, you're gone, you're sacrifice. You're you're not serving this family by being out there. Meanwhile, a man is serving his family by being.
00:16:14
Speaker 2: Things out there and there. You just hit it, you you just hit it on the head. That is okay.
00:16:21
Speaker 1: Now, I didn't know I was gonna hate this story as much as I No, I just hate how this has gone down. But stay here, we're not done. We're gonna let you hear what the president originally posted about it. And there is Robes a couple of questions I have to ask for you about this in particular, and Robes, is this something we should be applauding that what she did? And also Robes the question of what this does do to the conversation moving forward?
00:16:50
Speaker 2: Does it hurt or does it help? Stay here? Folks?
00:17:04
Speaker 1: All right, we continue here on. You want to say the last thing I said to you before we said it's left up.
00:17:10
Speaker 2: And look, this is an age old debate.
00:17:15
Speaker 3: And look, I actually think sometimes this debate falls along party lines in many ways, because there is a big group of this country, a large segment of this country, who believes that part of the the the unraveling of family values can be directly equated to women working outside of the home. There are plenty of folks who believe that, whether it's a political belief, whether it's a religious belief, whether it's just a.
00:17:43
Speaker 2: Deeply held belief in your own family.
00:17:46
Speaker 3: But it is tough on women because it's one of those you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't, And not everybody has the freedom to choose between the two. And so it's if you're a woman who's working outside the home, you're being selfish because it's about your power, your control, your money, your independence. But if a man does that right, he's providing switch it up, and a woman who stays home is giving up her career, giving up her aspirations, giving up her possibilities. And is sacrificing. It's just it's tough. I wish we could live in a world where both parents were given equal responsibility and whatever works for your family, that's amazing for you. But I do think we try to put this on women and the age old debate is and I think a lot of women have landed on this.
00:18:35
Speaker 2: You can't have it all.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: There are sacrifices that have to be made if you can't be there for your kids, and there are sacrifices that have to be made if you can't be at the office.
00:18:45
Speaker 1: As well as the next thing in that debate robes is why doesn't a man have to make that same sacrifice?
00:18:51
Speaker 2: Exactly, I don't have to make that choice.
00:18:52
Speaker 3: And whoever is the higher earner, it would make the most sense that that person is providing for the family and the person who is more able to be at.
00:19:03
Speaker 2: Home, whether it's the man or the woman.
00:19:05
Speaker 3: But there are people who believe that there is something about a mother's love, the maternal instinct that a baby or a young child needs more. And I don't know if that's fair to men and fathers. Are are we minimizing their role, their impact, their ability to love and nurture, so men get the short end of the stick when it comes to that as well.
00:19:25
Speaker 1: Where do you fall on this in terms of applauding her move or not not a criticism of her, but are do as far as applauding that she made like, Wow, what a mother and she made this sacrifice, or do you fall in the camp of what a damn shame that she had to make this sacrifice professionally to be a mother.
00:19:54
Speaker 2: I'm in between both of those sentiments.
00:19:58
Speaker 3: I feel some of both of those feelings. There's a part of me that feels bad for her that she's having to take a step back in her career, that she's having to to not maybe go as far or be what she could be professionally because she's taking a step back as a mom.
00:20:18
Speaker 2: But I also applaud her choice to follow.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: If this is in her heart and she wants to be with her kids more than she wants to be in front of that at some point, and sometimes it's got to be tough to constantly be facing people who are questioning you and challenging you, and you've got to constantly be on your toes with the ability and the information to push back, fight back against a press corps that can be adversarial at times, if not oftentimes right. And so maybe this is like exactly what she wanted and she didn't know what until she came back. Maybe she had to come back and say, ooh, this is not where I want to be this, I want see me at home. And so if that is what is in her heart, and she's following her heart, and again she has the financial means to be able to do so, I not only applaud her, I congratulate her.
00:21:12
Speaker 1: Okay, then now tell me about the messaging. This is a really high profile woman with a really impressive, high profile job, and she is young, baby, she is twenty eight. What I mean, how does this play out in terms of messaging to other women out there, young women, young mothers, young potential mothers, of how she do you?
00:21:36
Speaker 2: Are? They going, Wow, that's brave of her. They go, oh God, what hope do I have? Like? What what I think?
00:21:42
Speaker 3: People saying both, I think you Look, I will tell you this. It's so interesting. You and I talk to college students, and we have plenty of times over our careers. The number one thing every single young college age or even in turn came up to me and asked when they saw my job when I was working at ABC News and I was on a plane once a week, and I had been in that.
00:22:02
Speaker 2: Type of.
00:22:04
Speaker 3: Jet setting, long hour week kind of position throughout my kid's entire lives. They asked, me, Holy hell, how did you do it? How are you doing it? And can I do it too? Can I have a family and do what you do. That's the one thing that makes me nervous about becoming a journalist or being on television or doing anything like this, because I'm so afraid I won't be able to be a mom too. And I used to always say you can do both, but they but you will. You won't be able to bring it all to each and so you have to have a community around you, whether it's at work, whether it's at home, But you have to have support.
00:22:45
Speaker 2: You cannot be what you need.
00:22:49
Speaker 3: To be for your job to give it your one hundred percent and at the same time do that for your kids as a mom, as a woman. But I am telling you this is an age old question, an age old dilemma. And as women are more educated, as women have bigger and better and higher paying positions, it continually becomes a dilemma for young women who want to have families, who want to be moms, who want.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: To have kids but also have a professional dream. It's hard, It just is.
00:23:17
Speaker 3: And I think this decision needs to be so individual, and I think we need to support women in whatevers and say you made the right call for you, Good for you.
00:23:29
Speaker 2: That's where I land. But it's not easy. You know that.
00:23:34
Speaker 1: You know how engaged I am with college students, my alma mater, the number of speeches I've given on college campuses and talking to college students, going to NABJ, talking to young journalists robes. In twenty five plus years, not a single young man has come to me and asked me how to balance the career with family. Not a single time. And to hear you say, it's like the number one thing.
00:24:04
Speaker 2: It's the number one question one time.
00:24:08
Speaker 1: So that to your point that you've been making the entire episode, yep.
00:24:12
Speaker 2: And I remember kind of feeling.
00:24:14
Speaker 3: I remember seeing the relief on some of these young, bright eyed, bushy tailed wannabe journalists saying, oh my god, so you figured it out. I can too, because they're just so nervous that they won't be able to have it all. And I've said, then't me, don't let me fool you. You won't be able to have it all. You will cry on your way to the airport. You will cry in that hotel room that night when you FaceTime your kids from around the world, halfway around the world, knowing you're not there, and making dinner for them. Yes, but I do also believe that there is value in, yes, providing for your family, but also showing, especially your young daughters, that they can still manage both. And look, I think my daughters will tell you that, yes, there were times when they missed me and they wished I were home, but they say they have a mom that they could always look up to and be proud of.
00:25:02
Speaker 2: And so look, you lose a little, but you gain a lot.
00:25:05
Speaker 3: And I just think it's about whatever works for the dynamic you have in your family and in your household. But it's tough, and you're right, it's not fair. The same rules do not apply to men.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: I just hated for No, I say I hate it for it. That's me she'd be happy for She's making the call that works for her, and she's going to be happy moving forward. Congratulations to her. This isn't about politics sometimes growths. I'm just you've got to call it what it is. And we've been around all these people our entire careers and folks like that who get those jobs. We understand how difficult it is. We understand the pressure she's under, we understand robes, and no matter what, even she's not giving you the answer you want or giving you an answer at all, you can still understand and respect.
00:25:51
Speaker 2: What that role is.
00:25:53
Speaker 1: And I also respect the president she has to work under. What I'm saying is I respect how difficult job. I respect that she seemed to.
00:26:03
Speaker 2: Relish it too.
00:26:04
Speaker 3: I think that might be why you feel the way you're feeling, because it didn't seem like she didn't want to be there and.
00:26:10
Speaker 2: She was exhausted. She seemed to be energized by it.
00:26:13
Speaker 1: I think, are you going to be able to come up with the line she messed up on day one?
00:26:17
Speaker 2: I do have it.
00:26:19
Speaker 1: There's a weird thing people do when you get nervous and you just move words around in the sentence, And she did something on day one that was just hilarious. It was I don't even know if it was embarrassing. Everybody caught it, but we said, oh my god, and we laughed and we wrote it down. Yes, I got you for being here with us, is what she was trying to say, right right, okay, But instead she said this is.
00:26:45
Speaker 3: Her opening line as press secretary, first day on the job, she said, thanks for being us with here.
00:26:50
Speaker 2: She did, she said that to some journals. We paused it, we rewound it twenty times.
00:26:55
Speaker 3: Yeah. Laugh because I do that too when I'm nervous. I put words in the wrong place and I don't even know I did it. And you can tell she had no idea she did it. I do this constantly. It was It was endearing to you know what.
00:27:08
Speaker 2: That did endure us to her, us to her.
00:27:10
Speaker 1: And again it's not about politics at all, Gunna Messer, Gunna Messer, but congratulations to her, the new family, the new baby, and hope things go well.
00:27:21
Speaker 2: But just the update. We haven't given her the presidents. Oh we need to say with the president do we do.
00:27:27
Speaker 1: You even want to? I mean I'm kidding, yes, of course we need to. You're right, of course we need to. I'm just saying, this is her moment.
00:27:32
Speaker 2: Do we need hear? But yes, go ahead. I like how we end it. That's what he said about her.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: He said, our wonderful White House Press secretary and one of my most trusted aids, Carolyn Lovett will be departing her role at the end of the month so she can spend more time with her beautiful young children and family, a decision I totally understand and respect. Carolyn will now be one of my top outside advisors and an influential voice within the Republican Party as we work to defy history and conclusively with the midterm election. Carolyn has been a real leader in the White House and has done a phenomenal job fighting for justice, liberty, and freedom since twenty eighteen, including our historic re election campaign of twenty twenty four. Carolyn has been one of the best White House Press secretaries in the history of the office. Thank you, Carolyn for a job well done. That was a very very nice parting.
00:28:22
Speaker 2: Goodbye, very nice note it was, and.
00:28:25
Speaker 3: She's not look her children will be in school in a couple of years, both of them, and I think that is usually a moment in which someone like Carolyn Lovett will have an opportunity to re emerge if she so chooses, and do.
00:28:40
Speaker 1: I have She's leaving at the end of this month, end of August, the end of this month, alright, so congrats to her, but just wanted to give you the update that story breaking just moments before actually we hopped on. So appreciate you, as always folks spending a little time with us.
00:28:53
Speaker 2: I'm TJ. That's Rogues.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: We'll talk to the tech produce, the kitchen