Aug. 17, 2026
Brad Pitt Reveals He’s Drinking Again: Can Recovering Alcoholics Ever Safely Drink?
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RSS Feed In an interview with Esquire magazine, Brad Pitt admitted that he is off the wagon after 7 years sober. The actor saying he can have a few drinks, and after a few “overconfident” incidents, has decided to continue drinking, but “not in big quantities.” Pitt’s admission has rekindled an ongoing debate among recovering alcoholics, with Alcoholics Anonymous maintaining that “no one who has become an alcoholic has ever ceased to be an alcoholic” while other organizations support a moderation management technique, similar to what Pitt describes.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks, sit is Monday, August seventeenth, and can someone who is a recovering alcohol ever go back to a life of drinking even moderately. Brad Pitt says yes, and that has set off the debate of this age old question once again. With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
00:00:27
Speaker 2: Robes.
00:00:27
Speaker 1: I didn't know the answer. I really didn't. When to hear that a guy's been seven years sober famously said yeah, he drinks now in moderation. I wonder is that okay?
00:00:38
Speaker 3: I mean, you're not the only one who's wondered that, And a lot of folks who have been down that road of addiction and have become recovering alcoholics have all been pretty vocal saying, yeah, that's where he is right now.
00:00:54
Speaker 4: But there are a lot.
00:00:55
Speaker 3: Of ups and downs and twists and turns on the road through recovery because it's a lifelong journey. It's not something that just has to begin and an end date. And so a lot of folks are looking at this and just saying, well, this is where he is on his journey, but it likely is not over yet.
00:01:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:01:17
Speaker 1: I thought the general idea is that you are not that are recovering alcoholic and in particular alcoholics Anonymous. I know famously, but I thought the general idea is that once an alcoholic, you should not and you cannot safely go back to drinking, even responsibly. It's just too dangerous of a situation, too slippery of a slope, and it's highly recommended you do not do this.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: This was my understanding.
00:01:44
Speaker 3: Absolutely. That is the alcoholics Anonymous. Yes, that is their mantra, that is there. That is how they proceed, That is the way they teach and end monitor and support folks who are recovering alcoholics, because they say, just because you're recovering alcoholic, doesn't mean you're not still an alcoholic. And I think that's what they've always maintained, that you don't ever suddenly or even gradually become not addicted. That it's just something that you will always have and you have to always understand and you have to always operate with that knowledge.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: So you could imagine then how it was received by a lot of people to hear Brad Pitt come out and openly state that s after seven years sober, he has now been drinking in some moderation. Now he said this to Esquire Magazine, will give you the quote. He didn't say a whole lot about it. The interview wasn't about being sober or anything like that, but just about him and his background, his life, what's going on now, And he dropped these little nuggets. It didn't seem like robes in the question the Q and A. The guy was really probing him about being sober.
00:02:57
Speaker 3: Well, from what I read, when the interviewer met up with brad Pitt, brad Pitt offered him some wine and he said, oh, is that just for guests, basically like he was shocked that Brad offered him alcohol, given that we all very much knew that brad Pitt had made a public declaration that he was sober and he had gotten sober following his divorce with Angelina Jolie. And so that's when brad Pitt just kind of casually said, oh, yeah, you know, I'm drinking again. And that's where the conversation took place about him being a now moderate drinker.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: So this is the part that got the headlines. He said, quote, I was sober for seven years and then I got back off the wagon in a more restrained manner. I got over confident a couple of times went yeah, nope, not good for me, not in big quantities. You can have a glass of wine. Yeah, well I can have a few, but I can't have a lot. I have to be professional about it. H And that set off this conversation and got every and again robes it. I didn't realize it was such a highly debated and age old question. Maybe I shouldn't say it's so highly debated. It comes up to each his or her own. Everybody's journey is a little different. But generally speaking, Robes, folks who help folks recover from alcoholism don't recommend this.
00:04:25
Speaker 4: That is very much true.
00:04:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't make any There is no gray area in if you look at alcoholics anomonymous, their their web page and just their mantra. Yes, they do not say to each his or her own. They actually have a very and they would say, well documented, highly researched method for sobriety. And it involves no drinking whatsoever, like not at any point, not one glass of wine, not one beer.
00:04:54
Speaker 4: We're talking it is absolute abstinence.
00:04:56
Speaker 1: And then you have others who make the argument that that is too daunting for some like just to do an absolute never, and you like, there's almost this shame and so much punishment because you put so much emphasis on not having a single drink, and then if somebody has one, they feel like there's such a huge failure and it's too much. Some do make that argument as well, but Robes, I haven't seen a whole lot, even though some will say and alcoholics anonymous is not the only game in town, but it's very well known. But others who treat folks who have alcoholism, there's medications you use, and some do. Robes can say that's their journey. Moderation might work for this person, that doesn't work for that person. But yeah, Robes, I don't think there's much of a drumbeat about this is okay. And again we're not criticizing Bran Pitton White.
00:05:45
Speaker 3: Doing not And look, and I come to this from a place of saying, I don't know. I'm grateful that I've never experienced addiction of any kind, so I could never speak on any sort of personal anecdote. I just know that I've seen one friend who stopped drinking for I actually think it was seven years, funny enough, because she didn't like something that happened one time when she was drunk, and she took a pause for seven years. And I've seen her for the past seven years drink responsibly and she's been fine. Now you could argue she was never addicted. She just had a bad moment. It shamed her enough where she was like, I don't ever want to be in that position again, and made a choice and then now has had enough time and enough years and enough maturity to be in a different space. And so I think you might have stories like that that are absolutely that work and that are reasonable. But it's the question what is addiction and at what point are you addicted or you have an addictive personality or you are an alcoholic?
00:06:51
Speaker 4: What does that term mean?
00:06:54
Speaker 3: How do you define who's an alcoholic and who's just had a bad moment or who had a a bad relationship with alcohol that can be fixed. I mean, I don't know what all the different levels are of alcoholism or sobriety and anything in between.
00:07:10
Speaker 1: Well, it's a disorder and robes when you start hearing how the medical community talks about it. It is an illness. It is a disorder that needs to be treated. The official name alcohol use disorder aud. The definition of this robes a medical condition characterized by an impaired ability to stop or control alcohol use. And here's the key, even when drinking affects their health, puts safety at risk, and damages their personal relationships. What they're saying is, you know, it is crumbling the world around you, and you have no control over how much you drink. You still gotta have it. And it's so it is to hear how people are wired. They don't know exactly how people become alcoholics, but the majority of them it is gen x. If somebody in your family has a background of this, they say, that's a part of it. But also it comes with other mental health disorders, oftentimes people with depressions. So it really does, they say, Robes. The more you drink an alcoholic yes, it's a dopamine hit, it gives you this feeling. And the more and more you drink, the harder it is to satisfy that dopamine hit and to get that saying feeling of either problems going away or dealing with. So now you need more, and you need more, and you need more. And once I started reading about just the wiring, this is really really dangerous stuff and to think somebody who made it through that real medical condition going right back to that thing sounds daunting.
00:08:38
Speaker 2: And that is why they say you should not be drinking if you're recovering alcoholic.
00:08:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, we don't know what actually went on in Brad Pitt's life. We know what some of the headlines were and what Angelina joli has said in filings, and we know what he said in Corba and yeah, he even said that he had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. He went to alcoholics anonymous, he said he was an alcoholic.
00:09:04
Speaker 4: So that is the question.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: We don't know just the level of severity, how damaging, If the divorce and all the aftermath and all the problems that we've seen was that the result of his drinking, We don't know. I mean, Angelina Jolie hasn't really said much publicly. It's only been in public court filings that we've even heard about some of these alleged incidents that may have taken place while he was inebriated.
00:09:26
Speaker 4: But look, I don't know. I don't know.
00:09:30
Speaker 3: I think the concern and maybe the reaction has been that if someone who has been on the wagon, so to speak, who has been a recovering alcoholic. Reads this that Brad Pitt has gone back to drinking and he's fine, and he's done it responsibly, and he can do it in moderation after having declared himself an alcoholic.
00:09:51
Speaker 4: Maybe I can too.
00:09:53
Speaker 3: And look, when celebrities talk about their health, people listen. When celebrities talk about getting cancer, people go into the doctor and they get their medical exams and they save lives. But when someone talks about being able to drink responsibly after having acknowledged being an alcoholic, that could have some negative effects on folks.
00:10:13
Speaker 4: And that is the concern.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's I don't know how this how it helps. Now, Brad Pitt didn't do anything wrong. He's just talking about his own life, what his own experience is. But if somebody's not looking into it enough, if somebody, to your point, just hears that, he goes.
00:10:29
Speaker 4: Oh, let me try.
00:10:31
Speaker 2: I could do that too.
00:10:32
Speaker 1: And again that might work for some people, but generally speaking, they do not at all recommend this. You talk about his history, Robes, he has talked about his drinking. It sounded bad, like it sounded he said, he went through stretches of his career, doesn't remember a day being sober, doesn't remember a day where alcohol and drugs didn't play a significant role in his day. He talks about some abusive alcohol on levels as not just somebody a party going out and getting drunk. He full blown alcoholic, is what he has said about his time.
00:11:07
Speaker 3: I just got chills from head to toe because obviously we're recording this on the day that we found out about Hayden Panetier's death and her struggle with alcoholism and addiction, and I was just reading a quote where she said, I guess I was so foolish is to think that no one on the set could smell the vodka on my breath. That she said she would go to work at the Nashville and just be completely smashed. She said at six ams she would wake up and just start chugging wine, drinking vodka. And she was very very open about her struggles with addictions. So yeah, to hear you even just say that, it just immediately brought that to mine.
00:11:43
Speaker 4: So it's just this is real.
00:11:45
Speaker 3: This is a disorder that can actually take lives ultimately and destroy every relationship around you. And if you look at Hayden Panetier's life. It just all of a sudden, I just thought, oh my god, let's just hope that Brad Pitt is doing well, that he knows what he's doing, and that he's he's making good decisions based on his experience and what he knows he can or cannot handle.
00:12:09
Speaker 1: And I have seen rose. Please tell me if you've seen differently, But it seems like the debate or the excuse me you should maybe it is a debate, but the conversation around him is not one that's necessarily being critical or questioning him. It's just the examination once again of that age old question, is it okay? Can you can a recovering alcoholic ever go back to safely drinking? That's a real question that has now come up with one of the most famous guys in the world. Frankly, he has been one of the most famous alcoholics in the world sober for seven years. Like he talked about, proudly talked about that thing for a long time in some very public in big ways robes.
00:12:45
Speaker 3: For him to now say and casually it was interesting and maybe because he didn't want to draw attention to it necessarily, but then again, he chose to offer a journalist some one and some alcohol, knowing full well that it was very well known that he was abstaining that he was sober, that he was in AA and so yes, I'm assuming he knew by doing that he was opening the door to this conversation. Was it maybe he wanted to publicly drink again, That's what I am That's what I'm thinking.
00:13:17
Speaker 4: He wanted to go to.
00:13:18
Speaker 3: A restaurant and order wine and I have people go crazy. So now he kind of just slid it in an article, and yes it did make headlines. But now he's free, perhaps to publicly do what he's been doing privately.
00:13:30
Speaker 1: It's crazy to hear what people go through man publicly, to hear stories about you, talking about Hayden Penetier and talking about Brad Pitt and just we see them publicly being sucked such successes.
00:13:43
Speaker 2: And I'm recalling a story.
00:13:45
Speaker 1: Now and now goes obviously, I'm not gonna say. The actor was at GMA one morning, It's five o'clock in the morning, coming in to do a segment. One of the producers ran to mean, DJ, do you have some vodka? Because this actor, this guest couldn't get through the morning needed vodka.
00:14:06
Speaker 3: And wasn't embarrassed to ask someone to find vodka for him, him or her. You won't even say, I just want to I actually don't know. I actually don't know who you're talking abouout.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: That story immediately comes to mind, that stuff is happening behind the scenes, and these people are in our faces and that are smiling.
00:14:27
Speaker 2: What are they actually going through?
00:14:29
Speaker 1: And this actor we're talking about ended up had to rehab stanim the one we talking about ROAs. It's just I am stunned sometimes what happens behind the scenes. You and I got caught up. You saw it more so with me. I'm not putting it out on you, but I went through an awful relationship with alcohol for a couple of years at ABC. It is awful how nobody knew what I had just done or gone through or.
00:14:59
Speaker 3: So it it was the result of severe depression. You were diagnosed that.
00:15:03
Speaker 2: Never got treated.
00:15:05
Speaker 3: Sure it, absolutely you were treating it with alcohol.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: Yes, after I was diagnosed with depression, never went back to see that doctor, never saw him again, never got treated nothing.
00:15:16
Speaker 2: I am amazed. Rose.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: We keep hearing these stories over and over and over and over and over about these types of things. I applaud Brad Pitt for being open about being sober in the first place. This is just as important of a conversation.
00:15:31
Speaker 4: It is.
00:15:31
Speaker 3: But is it going to be more? Usually these conversations are good. We want to talk about it, we want to discuss it. But is this conversation dangerous?
00:15:40
Speaker 1: I see, I don't I learned something in this. I have been concerned about my own alcohol consumption in the past. I have learned so much in researching and seeing what people say and what the medical, what science says about this thing. So no, if people take a moment, if you get past the headline and say, oh, he's drinking, I guess I can drink too, and I'll be fine. If you get past that headline and just read into it a little more, you will become enlightened. Maybe you'll get curious, maybe you'll behave a little differently with your alcohol consumption. I just I applauded, and I hope and I don't think anybody's taking him to task for it. He did use alcoholics anonymous. Stay here, we'll read to you what they say about this very specific thing. Is it okay for someone who's recovered from alcoholism to ever go back to drinking robes. They're not necessarily on the fence.
00:16:37
Speaker 3: Stayre Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. We are talking about actor Brad Pitt announcing. He didn't really announce, but in an interview, let the interview er know that, Yeah, he drinks now in moderation.
00:17:00
Speaker 4: Had a couple times.
00:17:01
Speaker 3: He even admitted I thought that was interesting that he had too much and he had to pull back and say, nope, I can only have a few, but that yes, after being sober for seven years, he is drinking in moderation again. He was and was very vocal about being a part of Alcoholics Anonymous, but AA does not mince words when it comes to drinking again after acknowledging that you are in fact an alcoholic.
00:17:30
Speaker 1: No, they do not recommend this at all. They don't suggest it is very much a part of the program. On their website they say specifically, quote we are people who have discovered and admit it that we cannot control alcohol. We have learned that we must live without it to live normal, happy lives. They go on rodes and they have a whole frequently asked yeah question section FAQ, and one of them is can alcoholics ever drink normally?
00:18:00
Speaker 2: Again?
00:18:00
Speaker 4: Here is their answer.
00:18:02
Speaker 3: So far as can be determined, no one who has become an alcoholic has ever ceased to be an alcoholic. The mere fact of abstaining from alcohol for months or even years has never qualified an alcoholic to drink normally or socially. Once the individual has crossed the borderline from heavy drinking to irresponsible alcoholic drinking, there seems to be no retreat. Few alcoholics deliberately try to drink themselves into trouble, but trouble seems to be the inevitable consequence of an alcoholics drinking. After quitting for a period, the alcoholic may feel it is safe to try a few beers or a few glasses of wine. This can mislead the person into drinking only with meals, but it is not too long before the alcoholic is back in the old pattern of too heavy drinking. In spite of all efforts to set limits for only moderate soul social drinking, the answer, based on AA experience is that if you are an alcoholic, you will never be able to control your drinking for any length of time. That leaves two paths open to let your drinking become worse and worse with all the damaging results that follow, or to quit completely and develop a new pattern.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: Well, if some of the things in there is almost like they're speaking directly to his situation, don't do this, and again it can Sure, it's possible, somebody can do it. They say, everything they have seen says there's no way we'd ever recommend anybody could do this.
00:19:39
Speaker 3: In their literature, they say, no one has ever been able to do that who has been an alcoholic. So they actually have not seen one example, according to them, where somebody has successfully gone back into a moderate drinking habit, maybe even hell, a heavy drinking habit that doesn't cross over into a destructive drinking habit.
00:20:03
Speaker 1: They said, just because you've abstained for months or even years doesn't mean you're qualified now to drink normally or socially. It's really interesting stuff, and it is really dangerous stuff. It is no, we just know we can't dismiss folks as just drunks or drinking too much. Alcohol is a serious disorder. Alcoholism is a serious disorder robes and it's really really dangerous and we have seen, I guess Hayden Panetiers on the mind being this now with him, and he had some terrible years and I.
00:20:35
Speaker 3: Don't know reup, We just we hope he doesn't go back to those terrible years because they sound awful, and look, he did manage remarkably, I guess, just given his star power, his likability. I mean, he is one of the most iconic actors of our generation. Nobody wants to dislike him. Everyone's rooting for him for the most part, and he was able to emerge from that despite how difficult it was. And he talked in that same article about for the first time in his life understanding thoughts of suicide given the public scrutiny following his divorce, But honestly, he kind of came out fairly unscathed. I hate to say that, but I mean, by all accounts, I don't see people canceling Brad Pitt or saying they don't want to see his movies because it reports about how he treated his children or Angelina, and even the fact that all of his kids pretty much have not only distanced themselves from him, but have removed their last name from theirs. He's gone through it, so I hope that he has the coping skills to continue to get through it with a glass of wine in his hand.
00:21:43
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a little scary.
00:21:45
Speaker 1: And I hope he's with the kids. You know, that was something that just it's heartbreaking. I'd have no idea what that relationship was behind the scenes and what they feel he has been as a dad. That's not what we're saying. I am saying, Robes to see kid not want to be affiliated with their dad, their dad who is adored all over the world, and your own kids don't want your last name. That's heartbreaking to hear. But hope he's still on his right.
00:22:15
Speaker 3: Path, certainly. And look, this is something that affects you wrote. You found this out twenty eight million people in this country. Twenty eight million people in this country have identified as being or suffering from alcohol use disorder. It's interesting, you know, we won't say like people will say I have cancer. People are really careful about how they word disorders. You are even you're differently abled, you have cancer, you aren't cancer.
00:22:45
Speaker 4: So to call yourself an alcoholic.
00:22:47
Speaker 3: I always think it's interesting why we don't say these people suffer from alcohol use disorder, which is how it's referred to.
00:22:53
Speaker 1: Because we always blame them for it. We say, you have control of it, just put the bottle down, stop drinking. You're hurting your family, your both. That's why, because it seems bag like it's a choice you should have control over.
00:23:05
Speaker 3: But if it is a disorder, and it is something that's genetically inherited, it does seem like maybe we even need to change how we refer to folks who suffer from this, because if it does, in fact rewire your brain chemistry, that would suggest that you actually don't have control of it, and your only control is to acknowledge it and to abstain from it. But that's a lot harder than people will admit.
00:23:28
Speaker 1: It is an addiction, absolutely, and the drugs they prescribe for it ropes are the ones that are supposed to cut down on that dopamine it. It's supposed to cut down on that desire to want it. It's treated as an addiction. Yes, it is an addiction.
00:23:43
Speaker 3: Well, we certainly wish the best for him and certainly encourage anyone who's struggling with this to check out AA see what they have to say, do the research and look at what the overwhelming consensus is that what Brad Pitt is attempting or is doing is not recommended and in fact is frowned upon just because it doesn't appear that it's been verifiably.
00:24:09
Speaker 4: It hasn't. It hasn't worked for anyone.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: It's it's their experience. But again, Robes, you have others who will argue that it's a different approach and it should be individual. Some can and some can't, and moderation is considered. Was it moderation management, I believe is the official word where some people are recovering from alcoholism and the method they choose is not abstinence but moderation management. To each his and her own, I just don't want I want to make sure even though Alcoholics Anonymous might find on this, there are others you can find that don't, but Alcoholics Anonymous is that's the program he went through. Robes correct and give credit too if you want to stuff. Didn't leak out about stuff. He went into those meetings for a year and a half.
00:24:59
Speaker 2: I mean, that is how that's pretty ironclad.
00:25:02
Speaker 1: This is how much we have people who respect this process that we didn't go leak everything.
00:25:07
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt say in these meetings.
00:25:09
Speaker 3: Wow, well, we certainly wish him well and his family well and wanted to just jump in on the debate. We always appreciate you listening to us.
00:25:18
Speaker 4: Everyone.
00:25:18
Speaker 3: I'm Amy Roeboch alongside TJ.
00:25:21
Speaker 4: Holmes. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks, sit is Monday, August seventeenth, and can someone who is a recovering alcohol ever go back to a life of drinking even moderately. Brad Pitt says yes, and that has set off the debate of this age old question once again. With that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ.
00:00:27
Speaker 2: Robes.
00:00:27
Speaker 1: I didn't know the answer. I really didn't. When to hear that a guy's been seven years sober famously said yeah, he drinks now in moderation. I wonder is that okay?
00:00:38
Speaker 3: I mean, you're not the only one who's wondered that, And a lot of folks who have been down that road of addiction and have become recovering alcoholics have all been pretty vocal saying, yeah, that's where he is right now.
00:00:54
Speaker 4: But there are a lot.
00:00:55
Speaker 3: Of ups and downs and twists and turns on the road through recovery because it's a lifelong journey. It's not something that just has to begin and an end date. And so a lot of folks are looking at this and just saying, well, this is where he is on his journey, but it likely is not over yet.
00:01:16
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:01:17
Speaker 1: I thought the general idea is that you are not that are recovering alcoholic and in particular alcoholics Anonymous. I know famously, but I thought the general idea is that once an alcoholic, you should not and you cannot safely go back to drinking, even responsibly. It's just too dangerous of a situation, too slippery of a slope, and it's highly recommended you do not do this.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: This was my understanding.
00:01:44
Speaker 3: Absolutely. That is the alcoholics Anonymous. Yes, that is their mantra, that is there. That is how they proceed, That is the way they teach and end monitor and support folks who are recovering alcoholics, because they say, just because you're recovering alcoholic, doesn't mean you're not still an alcoholic. And I think that's what they've always maintained, that you don't ever suddenly or even gradually become not addicted. That it's just something that you will always have and you have to always understand and you have to always operate with that knowledge.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: So you could imagine then how it was received by a lot of people to hear Brad Pitt come out and openly state that s after seven years sober, he has now been drinking in some moderation. Now he said this to Esquire Magazine, will give you the quote. He didn't say a whole lot about it. The interview wasn't about being sober or anything like that, but just about him and his background, his life, what's going on now, And he dropped these little nuggets. It didn't seem like robes in the question the Q and A. The guy was really probing him about being sober.
00:02:57
Speaker 3: Well, from what I read, when the interviewer met up with brad Pitt, brad Pitt offered him some wine and he said, oh, is that just for guests, basically like he was shocked that Brad offered him alcohol, given that we all very much knew that brad Pitt had made a public declaration that he was sober and he had gotten sober following his divorce with Angelina Jolie. And so that's when brad Pitt just kind of casually said, oh, yeah, you know, I'm drinking again. And that's where the conversation took place about him being a now moderate drinker.
00:03:35
Speaker 1: So this is the part that got the headlines. He said, quote, I was sober for seven years and then I got back off the wagon in a more restrained manner. I got over confident a couple of times went yeah, nope, not good for me, not in big quantities. You can have a glass of wine. Yeah, well I can have a few, but I can't have a lot. I have to be professional about it. H And that set off this conversation and got every and again robes it. I didn't realize it was such a highly debated and age old question. Maybe I shouldn't say it's so highly debated. It comes up to each his or her own. Everybody's journey is a little different. But generally speaking, Robes, folks who help folks recover from alcoholism don't recommend this.
00:04:25
Speaker 4: That is very much true.
00:04:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't make any There is no gray area in if you look at alcoholics anomonymous, their their web page and just their mantra. Yes, they do not say to each his or her own. They actually have a very and they would say, well documented, highly researched method for sobriety. And it involves no drinking whatsoever, like not at any point, not one glass of wine, not one beer.
00:04:54
Speaker 4: We're talking it is absolute abstinence.
00:04:56
Speaker 1: And then you have others who make the argument that that is too daunting for some like just to do an absolute never, and you like, there's almost this shame and so much punishment because you put so much emphasis on not having a single drink, and then if somebody has one, they feel like there's such a huge failure and it's too much. Some do make that argument as well, but Robes, I haven't seen a whole lot, even though some will say and alcoholics anonymous is not the only game in town, but it's very well known. But others who treat folks who have alcoholism, there's medications you use, and some do. Robes can say that's their journey. Moderation might work for this person, that doesn't work for that person. But yeah, Robes, I don't think there's much of a drumbeat about this is okay. And again we're not criticizing Bran Pitton White.
00:05:45
Speaker 3: Doing not And look, and I come to this from a place of saying, I don't know. I'm grateful that I've never experienced addiction of any kind, so I could never speak on any sort of personal anecdote. I just know that I've seen one friend who stopped drinking for I actually think it was seven years, funny enough, because she didn't like something that happened one time when she was drunk, and she took a pause for seven years. And I've seen her for the past seven years drink responsibly and she's been fine. Now you could argue she was never addicted. She just had a bad moment. It shamed her enough where she was like, I don't ever want to be in that position again, and made a choice and then now has had enough time and enough years and enough maturity to be in a different space. And so I think you might have stories like that that are absolutely that work and that are reasonable. But it's the question what is addiction and at what point are you addicted or you have an addictive personality or you are an alcoholic?
00:06:51
Speaker 4: What does that term mean?
00:06:54
Speaker 3: How do you define who's an alcoholic and who's just had a bad moment or who had a a bad relationship with alcohol that can be fixed. I mean, I don't know what all the different levels are of alcoholism or sobriety and anything in between.
00:07:10
Speaker 1: Well, it's a disorder and robes when you start hearing how the medical community talks about it. It is an illness. It is a disorder that needs to be treated. The official name alcohol use disorder aud. The definition of this robes a medical condition characterized by an impaired ability to stop or control alcohol use. And here's the key, even when drinking affects their health, puts safety at risk, and damages their personal relationships. What they're saying is, you know, it is crumbling the world around you, and you have no control over how much you drink. You still gotta have it. And it's so it is to hear how people are wired. They don't know exactly how people become alcoholics, but the majority of them it is gen x. If somebody in your family has a background of this, they say, that's a part of it. But also it comes with other mental health disorders, oftentimes people with depressions. So it really does, they say, Robes. The more you drink an alcoholic yes, it's a dopamine hit, it gives you this feeling. And the more and more you drink, the harder it is to satisfy that dopamine hit and to get that saying feeling of either problems going away or dealing with. So now you need more, and you need more, and you need more. And once I started reading about just the wiring, this is really really dangerous stuff and to think somebody who made it through that real medical condition going right back to that thing sounds daunting.
00:08:38
Speaker 2: And that is why they say you should not be drinking if you're recovering alcoholic.
00:08:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, we don't know what actually went on in Brad Pitt's life. We know what some of the headlines were and what Angelina joli has said in filings, and we know what he said in Corba and yeah, he even said that he had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. He went to alcoholics anonymous, he said he was an alcoholic.
00:09:04
Speaker 4: So that is the question.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: We don't know just the level of severity, how damaging, If the divorce and all the aftermath and all the problems that we've seen was that the result of his drinking, We don't know. I mean, Angelina Jolie hasn't really said much publicly. It's only been in public court filings that we've even heard about some of these alleged incidents that may have taken place while he was inebriated.
00:09:26
Speaker 4: But look, I don't know. I don't know.
00:09:30
Speaker 3: I think the concern and maybe the reaction has been that if someone who has been on the wagon, so to speak, who has been a recovering alcoholic. Reads this that Brad Pitt has gone back to drinking and he's fine, and he's done it responsibly, and he can do it in moderation after having declared himself an alcoholic.
00:09:51
Speaker 4: Maybe I can too.
00:09:53
Speaker 3: And look, when celebrities talk about their health, people listen. When celebrities talk about getting cancer, people go into the doctor and they get their medical exams and they save lives. But when someone talks about being able to drink responsibly after having acknowledged being an alcoholic, that could have some negative effects on folks.
00:10:13
Speaker 4: And that is the concern.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess it's I don't know how this how it helps. Now, Brad Pitt didn't do anything wrong. He's just talking about his own life, what his own experience is. But if somebody's not looking into it enough, if somebody, to your point, just hears that, he goes.
00:10:29
Speaker 4: Oh, let me try.
00:10:31
Speaker 2: I could do that too.
00:10:32
Speaker 1: And again that might work for some people, but generally speaking, they do not at all recommend this. You talk about his history, Robes, he has talked about his drinking. It sounded bad, like it sounded he said, he went through stretches of his career, doesn't remember a day being sober, doesn't remember a day where alcohol and drugs didn't play a significant role in his day. He talks about some abusive alcohol on levels as not just somebody a party going out and getting drunk. He full blown alcoholic, is what he has said about his time.
00:11:07
Speaker 3: I just got chills from head to toe because obviously we're recording this on the day that we found out about Hayden Panetier's death and her struggle with alcoholism and addiction, and I was just reading a quote where she said, I guess I was so foolish is to think that no one on the set could smell the vodka on my breath. That she said she would go to work at the Nashville and just be completely smashed. She said at six ams she would wake up and just start chugging wine, drinking vodka. And she was very very open about her struggles with addictions. So yeah, to hear you even just say that, it just immediately brought that to mine.
00:11:43
Speaker 4: So it's just this is real.
00:11:45
Speaker 3: This is a disorder that can actually take lives ultimately and destroy every relationship around you. And if you look at Hayden Panetier's life. It just all of a sudden, I just thought, oh my god, let's just hope that Brad Pitt is doing well, that he knows what he's doing, and that he's he's making good decisions based on his experience and what he knows he can or cannot handle.
00:12:09
Speaker 1: And I have seen rose. Please tell me if you've seen differently, But it seems like the debate or the excuse me you should maybe it is a debate, but the conversation around him is not one that's necessarily being critical or questioning him. It's just the examination once again of that age old question, is it okay? Can you can a recovering alcoholic ever go back to safely drinking? That's a real question that has now come up with one of the most famous guys in the world. Frankly, he has been one of the most famous alcoholics in the world sober for seven years. Like he talked about, proudly talked about that thing for a long time in some very public in big ways robes.
00:12:45
Speaker 3: For him to now say and casually it was interesting and maybe because he didn't want to draw attention to it necessarily, but then again, he chose to offer a journalist some one and some alcohol, knowing full well that it was very well known that he was abstaining that he was sober, that he was in AA and so yes, I'm assuming he knew by doing that he was opening the door to this conversation. Was it maybe he wanted to publicly drink again, That's what I am That's what I'm thinking.
00:13:17
Speaker 4: He wanted to go to.
00:13:18
Speaker 3: A restaurant and order wine and I have people go crazy. So now he kind of just slid it in an article, and yes it did make headlines. But now he's free, perhaps to publicly do what he's been doing privately.
00:13:30
Speaker 1: It's crazy to hear what people go through man publicly, to hear stories about you, talking about Hayden Penetier and talking about Brad Pitt and just we see them publicly being sucked such successes.
00:13:43
Speaker 2: And I'm recalling a story.
00:13:45
Speaker 1: Now and now goes obviously, I'm not gonna say. The actor was at GMA one morning, It's five o'clock in the morning, coming in to do a segment. One of the producers ran to mean, DJ, do you have some vodka? Because this actor, this guest couldn't get through the morning needed vodka.
00:14:06
Speaker 3: And wasn't embarrassed to ask someone to find vodka for him, him or her. You won't even say, I just want to I actually don't know. I actually don't know who you're talking abouout.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: That story immediately comes to mind, that stuff is happening behind the scenes, and these people are in our faces and that are smiling.
00:14:27
Speaker 2: What are they actually going through?
00:14:29
Speaker 1: And this actor we're talking about ended up had to rehab stanim the one we talking about ROAs. It's just I am stunned sometimes what happens behind the scenes. You and I got caught up. You saw it more so with me. I'm not putting it out on you, but I went through an awful relationship with alcohol for a couple of years at ABC. It is awful how nobody knew what I had just done or gone through or.
00:14:59
Speaker 3: So it it was the result of severe depression. You were diagnosed that.
00:15:03
Speaker 2: Never got treated.
00:15:05
Speaker 3: Sure it, absolutely you were treating it with alcohol.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: Yes, after I was diagnosed with depression, never went back to see that doctor, never saw him again, never got treated nothing.
00:15:16
Speaker 2: I am amazed. Rose.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: We keep hearing these stories over and over and over and over and over about these types of things. I applaud Brad Pitt for being open about being sober in the first place. This is just as important of a conversation.
00:15:31
Speaker 4: It is.
00:15:31
Speaker 3: But is it going to be more? Usually these conversations are good. We want to talk about it, we want to discuss it. But is this conversation dangerous?
00:15:40
Speaker 1: I see, I don't I learned something in this. I have been concerned about my own alcohol consumption in the past. I have learned so much in researching and seeing what people say and what the medical, what science says about this thing. So no, if people take a moment, if you get past the headline and say, oh, he's drinking, I guess I can drink too, and I'll be fine. If you get past that headline and just read into it a little more, you will become enlightened. Maybe you'll get curious, maybe you'll behave a little differently with your alcohol consumption. I just I applauded, and I hope and I don't think anybody's taking him to task for it. He did use alcoholics anonymous. Stay here, we'll read to you what they say about this very specific thing. Is it okay for someone who's recovered from alcoholism to ever go back to drinking robes. They're not necessarily on the fence.
00:16:37
Speaker 3: Stayre Welcome back everyone to Amy and TJ. We are talking about actor Brad Pitt announcing. He didn't really announce, but in an interview, let the interview er know that, Yeah, he drinks now in moderation.
00:17:00
Speaker 4: Had a couple times.
00:17:01
Speaker 3: He even admitted I thought that was interesting that he had too much and he had to pull back and say, nope, I can only have a few, but that yes, after being sober for seven years, he is drinking in moderation again. He was and was very vocal about being a part of Alcoholics Anonymous, but AA does not mince words when it comes to drinking again after acknowledging that you are in fact an alcoholic.
00:17:30
Speaker 1: No, they do not recommend this at all. They don't suggest it is very much a part of the program. On their website they say specifically, quote we are people who have discovered and admit it that we cannot control alcohol. We have learned that we must live without it to live normal, happy lives. They go on rodes and they have a whole frequently asked yeah question section FAQ, and one of them is can alcoholics ever drink normally?
00:18:00
Speaker 2: Again?
00:18:00
Speaker 4: Here is their answer.
00:18:02
Speaker 3: So far as can be determined, no one who has become an alcoholic has ever ceased to be an alcoholic. The mere fact of abstaining from alcohol for months or even years has never qualified an alcoholic to drink normally or socially. Once the individual has crossed the borderline from heavy drinking to irresponsible alcoholic drinking, there seems to be no retreat. Few alcoholics deliberately try to drink themselves into trouble, but trouble seems to be the inevitable consequence of an alcoholics drinking. After quitting for a period, the alcoholic may feel it is safe to try a few beers or a few glasses of wine. This can mislead the person into drinking only with meals, but it is not too long before the alcoholic is back in the old pattern of too heavy drinking. In spite of all efforts to set limits for only moderate soul social drinking, the answer, based on AA experience is that if you are an alcoholic, you will never be able to control your drinking for any length of time. That leaves two paths open to let your drinking become worse and worse with all the damaging results that follow, or to quit completely and develop a new pattern.
00:19:23
Speaker 1: Well, if some of the things in there is almost like they're speaking directly to his situation, don't do this, and again it can Sure, it's possible, somebody can do it. They say, everything they have seen says there's no way we'd ever recommend anybody could do this.
00:19:39
Speaker 3: In their literature, they say, no one has ever been able to do that who has been an alcoholic. So they actually have not seen one example, according to them, where somebody has successfully gone back into a moderate drinking habit, maybe even hell, a heavy drinking habit that doesn't cross over into a destructive drinking habit.
00:20:03
Speaker 1: They said, just because you've abstained for months or even years doesn't mean you're qualified now to drink normally or socially. It's really interesting stuff, and it is really dangerous stuff. It is no, we just know we can't dismiss folks as just drunks or drinking too much. Alcohol is a serious disorder. Alcoholism is a serious disorder robes and it's really really dangerous and we have seen, I guess Hayden Panetiers on the mind being this now with him, and he had some terrible years and I.
00:20:35
Speaker 3: Don't know reup, We just we hope he doesn't go back to those terrible years because they sound awful, and look, he did manage remarkably, I guess, just given his star power, his likability. I mean, he is one of the most iconic actors of our generation. Nobody wants to dislike him. Everyone's rooting for him for the most part, and he was able to emerge from that despite how difficult it was. And he talked in that same article about for the first time in his life understanding thoughts of suicide given the public scrutiny following his divorce, But honestly, he kind of came out fairly unscathed. I hate to say that, but I mean, by all accounts, I don't see people canceling Brad Pitt or saying they don't want to see his movies because it reports about how he treated his children or Angelina, and even the fact that all of his kids pretty much have not only distanced themselves from him, but have removed their last name from theirs. He's gone through it, so I hope that he has the coping skills to continue to get through it with a glass of wine in his hand.
00:21:43
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a little scary.
00:21:45
Speaker 1: And I hope he's with the kids. You know, that was something that just it's heartbreaking. I'd have no idea what that relationship was behind the scenes and what they feel he has been as a dad. That's not what we're saying. I am saying, Robes to see kid not want to be affiliated with their dad, their dad who is adored all over the world, and your own kids don't want your last name. That's heartbreaking to hear. But hope he's still on his right.
00:22:15
Speaker 3: Path, certainly. And look, this is something that affects you wrote. You found this out twenty eight million people in this country. Twenty eight million people in this country have identified as being or suffering from alcohol use disorder. It's interesting, you know, we won't say like people will say I have cancer. People are really careful about how they word disorders. You are even you're differently abled, you have cancer, you aren't cancer.
00:22:45
Speaker 4: So to call yourself an alcoholic.
00:22:47
Speaker 3: I always think it's interesting why we don't say these people suffer from alcohol use disorder, which is how it's referred to.
00:22:53
Speaker 1: Because we always blame them for it. We say, you have control of it, just put the bottle down, stop drinking. You're hurting your family, your both. That's why, because it seems bag like it's a choice you should have control over.
00:23:05
Speaker 3: But if it is a disorder, and it is something that's genetically inherited, it does seem like maybe we even need to change how we refer to folks who suffer from this, because if it does, in fact rewire your brain chemistry, that would suggest that you actually don't have control of it, and your only control is to acknowledge it and to abstain from it. But that's a lot harder than people will admit.
00:23:28
Speaker 1: It is an addiction, absolutely, and the drugs they prescribe for it ropes are the ones that are supposed to cut down on that dopamine it. It's supposed to cut down on that desire to want it. It's treated as an addiction. Yes, it is an addiction.
00:23:43
Speaker 3: Well, we certainly wish the best for him and certainly encourage anyone who's struggling with this to check out AA see what they have to say, do the research and look at what the overwhelming consensus is that what Brad Pitt is attempting or is doing is not recommended and in fact is frowned upon just because it doesn't appear that it's been verifiably.
00:24:09
Speaker 4: It hasn't. It hasn't worked for anyone.
00:24:11
Speaker 1: It's it's their experience. But again, Robes, you have others who will argue that it's a different approach and it should be individual. Some can and some can't, and moderation is considered. Was it moderation management, I believe is the official word where some people are recovering from alcoholism and the method they choose is not abstinence but moderation management. To each his and her own, I just don't want I want to make sure even though Alcoholics Anonymous might find on this, there are others you can find that don't, but Alcoholics Anonymous is that's the program he went through. Robes correct and give credit too if you want to stuff. Didn't leak out about stuff. He went into those meetings for a year and a half.
00:24:59
Speaker 2: I mean, that is how that's pretty ironclad.
00:25:02
Speaker 1: This is how much we have people who respect this process that we didn't go leak everything.
00:25:07
Speaker 2: Brad Pitt say in these meetings.
00:25:09
Speaker 3: Wow, well, we certainly wish him well and his family well and wanted to just jump in on the debate. We always appreciate you listening to us.
00:25:18
Speaker 4: Everyone.
00:25:18
Speaker 3: I'm Amy Roeboch alongside TJ.
00:25:21
Speaker 4: Holmes. We'll talk soon.