June 11, 2026
Bill Gates Made “A Grave Error In Judgement” With Epstein Relationship
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RSS Feed It was a stunning scene on Capitol Hill, one of the most powerful men in the world testifying before the House Oversight Committee for six hours. Billionaire Bill Gates voluntarily appeared before lawmakers and read his opening statement which acknowledged his poor judgment and described how Jeffrey Epstein attempted to blackmail him regarding his extramarital affairs. Lawmakers had different reactions to Gates’ testimony, some calling it intense and combative, others said he was “not forthcoming or candid.”
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey, they folks did. It's Thursday, June eleventh, and another high profile, famous, powerful man has been hauled in to give testimony before Congress having to do with his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And what did he testify to I don't know nothing, I ain't see nothing, I ain't do nothing. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ ropes. Not necessarily forbad him. I think Bill Gates might have been a little more eloquent in he's how he said it, but that's what he said.
00:00:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is, as you pointed out, one of the most powerful men, billionaires in the world, who was essentially being blackmailed by one of the most prolific pedophiles in the world.
00:00:48
Speaker 1: He might have been one of the most prolific blackmailers. This follows a pattern. This is what people want. You want leverage over people in some way. And this part was interesting, really.
00:00:56
Speaker 2: And that is where so many of the conspiracy theories continue to have legs, because yes, it is true, it has been proven. And we heard directly from Bill Gates that yes, he was among the men who Jeffrey Epstein had goods on and threatened to use them to try and continual relationship with or at least continue to use Bill Gates's good name at the time to benefit him. And that is part of what the Congressional the House Oversight Committee is trying to come to terms with, to try to figure out how Epstein rose to power, investigate the investigation, and just try to give some more information to a very curious American public.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: I guess we're getting a little more insight, a little more detail. There's some curiosity here. I'm not sure, rogue, do we got anything that overwhelmingly changes the narrative, but it just I think it just adds to it a little more understanding. But yeah, this is further evidence in that camp man. What did he have on everybody exactly?
00:01:58
Speaker 2: And so this was a closed door deposition, and Bill Gates himself actually released his opening statement to the committee, much like we saw from Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton when they were compelled to testify back in February. Bill Gates, however, made it very clear he came voluntarily. And as he was walking into the Capitol, of course, you know, you had all those reporters throwing Mike's at him, and he said he was there hoping that he could help lawmakers quote fine justice for the victims.
00:02:28
Speaker 3: As he went into testify, I was.
00:02:30
Speaker 1: Very surprised to see him stop and make a statement of any kind. He didn't take questions, but he did. He stood there and looked calm and confident. He looks throwing in.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: He looked a little different, He looks thin. He did, right, And that stood out to me. I don't know if you noticed that too.
00:02:44
Speaker 1: I guess we don't see him that often. He's not as prominent as far as up to date pictures, right, we don't see him that often. But yeah, I thought you looked pretty good.
00:02:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when I said that, like, he looked healthy. He didn't look sickly, he looked healthy. But yeah, he's just the latest powerful person linked to Jeffrey Epsty to testify. And I think you all probably remember that his name did appear fairly prominently in some.
00:03:07
Speaker 1: Emails, prominently and frequently and.
00:03:10
Speaker 3: Embarrassingly in those files.
00:03:12
Speaker 2: In some of these emails, in fact, that Jeffrey Epstein emailed himself almost as if he were making notes to remember what was happening, or maybe there were drafts. I think it was suggested if emails he was going to send to Bill Gates in that big DOJ Epstein dumping those emails. The contents of them were frankly very embarrassing to Bill Gates. It was the very material that Jeffrey Epstein was holding over his head to blackmail him.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as a reminder, I mean some of the style least still draft email it suggested or said that Bill Gates was surreptitiously trying to give his wife drugs to treat an STD that he had given her that he gotten from having extramarital affairs. I mean, that's pretty tough stuff.
00:03:57
Speaker 3: Correct in this file? Correct?
00:04:00
Speaker 2: Actually have in one of the emails, Epstein wrote to add insult to the injury. You then subsequently, with tears in your eyes, implore me to please delete the emails regarding your STD, your request that I provide you antibiotics that you can surreptitiously give to Melinda, and description of your penis. So, yes, this was an email in the DOJ dump.
00:04:26
Speaker 1: And yes, and it didn't make sense why Jeffrey Epstein would write that draft to himself. Does this mean he was I don't know, was he making this up and getting prepared to put that out or was this all true? So Bill Gates at the time came out and made a statement and said all this stuff was untrue.
00:04:48
Speaker 2: Yes, And there was another email just to see where we're going with and what he's referencing when we read you as opening statements. There was another email from a former Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation chief advisor who talked about in this email about things he had been asked to do that he felt were morally inappropriate or even ethically unsound.
00:05:11
Speaker 3: And he said from.
00:05:13
Speaker 2: Helping Bill to get drugs in order to deal with consequences of sex with Russian girls, to facilitating his illicit trysts with married women, to being asked to provide adderall for bridge tournaments as I am a medical doctor but have no prescriptions writing ability.
00:05:29
Speaker 3: So all of this was back and forth.
00:05:32
Speaker 2: With Epstein, and it just was it was a very tough PR day for Bill Gates to say the least.
00:05:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he, from what I remember ropes, he responded pretty immediately to this and pretty extensively. He kind of said a lot. I can't remember if he was on camera, but oh, didn't he have to After this he spoke to the foundation, didn't he have a meeting. In the notes of that meeting got out he had to talk to them.
00:05:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:05:55
Speaker 1: So yes, he has been out there and admitting and saying I had aim miss this was a mistake to have this relationship. So he gets hauled in robes. It seems like, based on the Epstein files and things that we are aware of, maybe he does know something. Maybe he did see something, Maybe he was aware of something, maybe he was around something. Maybe he can help us move this investigation along.
00:06:17
Speaker 2: Okay, well we have his opening statement, and in addition to just thanking the committee and actually calling it an opportunity to appear before them, he actually said he was looking forward to answering their.
00:06:28
Speaker 1: Question, saying all the right stuff.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem that's how the Clintons opened, But okay, Bill Gates maybe started out a little friendly.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: What was Clinton's wonderful line at the Annie's fire away? Something great?
00:06:40
Speaker 2: They didn't act as if they were excited about it. Ask her questions. But he begins with at the outset, I want to stay very clearly, I never witnessed, nor had any indication that Epstein was engaged in ongoing criminal conduct. I never went to his island, his ranch or his Florida home. I've never victimized anyone. While he may have sought to foster a personal relationship, I was never interested in that and never reciprocated.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: So, like I said, didn't know nothing, didn't do nothing, didn't see nothing.
00:07:11
Speaker 3: Yes, that was the verbatim of your synopsis.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Okay, he might as well just say that and say, okay, give me questions. Okay, Well get it. I don't know anything this guy that I knew. I am in here in Congress to testify about my relationship. Let me start with this. I know nothing.
00:07:27
Speaker 3: And by the way, it was a five year relationship. Well, uh okay.
00:07:32
Speaker 2: So he goes on to kind of give some details. He said, I was introduced to Epstein in twenty eleven through people I trusted in my professional and philanthropic work.
00:07:40
Speaker 3: Epstein claimed he could raise billions.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: Of dollars for global health from people for whom he provided tax and estate services. I recall being aware that Epstein had faced prior legal issues, but I did not fully understand the extent of the crimes he committed. I accepted the introduction without applying the scrutiny I should have.
00:08:02
Speaker 1: That's for a guy who's become one of the most influential men in business the world has ever known, one of the most I mean, one of the richest men the world has ever known. I didn't do my homework on this new guy that was just handed to me.
00:08:17
Speaker 3: It does seem a bit bizarre.
00:08:19
Speaker 2: And when you find out he's acknowledging he knew he was a convicted criminal. Did he not want to know what he did? And when you heard predator, child sex offender, possible, well, not possible, convicted pedophile, would you not? I mean, do you gloss it over by thinking as she was probably sixteen?
00:08:37
Speaker 1: So what's the line there about what he was aware of?
00:08:40
Speaker 3: He was aware that Epstein had faced prior legal issues. That's how he phrased it. That's where you lose me.
00:08:49
Speaker 1: He okay, come on, okay. I didn't realize he lost us so early in his statement it sweetheart deal.
00:08:54
Speaker 2: Epstein' sweetheart deal was in two thousand and seven. This is four years after the fact. There was information online everywhere about him.
00:09:03
Speaker 3: At that point. It would have only required a Google.
00:09:07
Speaker 1: Sech we even when you meet somebody and before you go on the first date, you can google him and find this out to say he didn't do enough research. Sounds a little odd, but to this sounds legal. It sounds lawyer. It's the way he put it. Be aware of he had some prior legal issues. Well, that's vague. Okay, I want to take him at his word here, but that's uh, that's vague and it's tough to believe.
00:09:32
Speaker 2: Agreed, So yes, Then he describes having like three meetings with Epstein in twenty eleven, a couple in twenty twelve, and then he claims there were more extensive conversations in twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen, and so then he goes specifically in twenty fourteen. So this is five years after meeting him. After Epstein brought together a group he described as potential donors, I realized that our prior discussions would should have translated into meaningful, filling throat topic support were a dead end. It was clear that no one in the group was interested enough to move forward. At that point, I concluded Epstein would never deliver on his promises. I told him we would go no further and stopped communicating or meeting with him. No vehicle for charitable giving was ever created, and no funds were raised. So he claims all of his interactions with Epstein ended in December of twenty fourteen, and he made the point to say that was four years before new reports in the press shed light on the extent of his crimes. Look, I was doing investigative reporting on him in twenty sixteen, so maybe he could say it was a few years away from a renewed interest in what Epstein was doing.
00:10:42
Speaker 3: But this was in the height of his criminal activity.
00:10:46
Speaker 1: Help me with the convictions in Florida were twenty seven Oh my god. Okay, So he fires it up with his guy in twenty eleven, yes, twenty fourteen, correct, fifteen?
00:10:57
Speaker 3: Correct?
00:10:58
Speaker 1: Okay, all right.
00:10:59
Speaker 2: So he claims then that he has an employee engaged to engage Epstein into negotiating the separation, that they were going to formally not be doing business together. But then he says it was after this that I learned Epstein had become aware of sensitive information about my personal life, including the fact that I have been unfaithful in my marriage. These affairs had nothing to do with my interactions with Epstein, but they were painful for my family. As the public can now see based on what has been released in the files, Epstein was working to use information about my infidelities, in addition to many lies that he layered on top to pressure me to re engage with him.
00:11:46
Speaker 3: He was unsuccessful in.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: This effort, but it shows some of the ways he tried to leverage his interactions with me to further his agenda. Look, if he had no personal connection, no personal relationship with him, if this were just a few business meetings that went nowhere, how did Epstein have all this information about women and drugs and STDs and all of these other things.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: You know what, I wouldn't be surprised if Epstein had his ways. Now, that's one thing I can I would believe based on what we know about this guy. He just knew stuff, and he knew how to get information. He knew how to get into a room, he knew how to get people together. He just seemed like a guy who would have a file on everybody he does work with.
00:12:30
Speaker 2: Right, But it's just interesting if you know that Jeffrey Epstein was known to gather women from around the world to be around these powerful men with money, it just seems strange that that was independent of Epstein, that he apparently had affairs with Russian girls.
00:12:48
Speaker 1: You were saying he would have been rolling with Epstein for some of his gig.
00:12:53
Speaker 2: That is the implicator, and that is what you would think. It'd be strange that those two things weren't connected in a same way.
00:12:58
Speaker 1: And I had them disconnect because of the underage nature of a lot of what Epstein was doing. And we should say, if we haven't yet, Bill Gates has not been accused in any way of any criminals, not as.
00:13:11
Speaker 2: Consenting adults, consenting adults as who he has admitted to having affairs.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: And those folks he was involved with are not connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Now, Rhodes, I haven't done with you. Maybe a lot of people are doing what you're doing. I didn't do that. I didn't put the two things together.
00:13:28
Speaker 2: And they might not go together, but it's hard to imagine that there isn't a space where they could. So I think that's where he's trying to distance himself, obviously from those two things being connected, but they're in the same vein the age obviously significant and certainly the women who have been named, and there have been names, have acknowledged a relationship that was consensual, So there's no criminal implication for Bill Gates, but he went on to say, I should never have met with Epstein in the first place, based on what I know now, I understand that even if he had delivered the new donors he promised, it would not have justified associating with him. And he goes on to acknowledge that just by being associated with Bill Gates, by allowing him into his life, he legitimized a criminal, He legitimized the pedophile, at least by his association with him.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: So he is acknowledging that because now he has even more clout because he's rolling.
00:14:27
Speaker 3: With Bill Gates exactly exactly.
00:14:30
Speaker 2: And so this was the big thing that Gates testified to that made headlines. He went on to say, meeting with Epstein was a grave error in judgment and put this work at risk, meaning his philanthropic work.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: His behavior was.
00:14:47
Speaker 2: Antithetical to all my efforts to contribute to a world where everyone has a chance to live a healthy and productive life. If the time I spent with Epstein lent him any credibility, I am deeply sorry, learned a significant lesson and am now far more careful about who I engage with, even in a limited capacity. That seems so strange for the billionaire who founded Microsoft to have to say, now, upon reflection.
00:15:13
Speaker 1: I have to be careful about who I let it in.
00:15:14
Speaker 3: My way, I've learned the lesson now what really fine.
00:15:19
Speaker 1: But again, it's kind of one of those things. If somebody you respect that much walks in here and introduces you to a guy, you would just say, fine, this person has to be legit. There are plenty of people in our lives. Well, I don't know why straight hand comes the mind. If somebody like that, a friend, somebody you're close to, somebody you know is good in business, introduces you to somebody, they are immediately legitimate in your eyes? Are they not?
00:15:40
Speaker 2: It does lend them credibility, But it's still when you're the person who Bill Gates was even at that time, you still have to do your own due diligence.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. We google it makes everybody all right.
00:15:55
Speaker 2: When we come back, we're gonna tell you what the lawmakers who were grilling Gates for those six hours, by the way, what they had to say about his testimony, and who the next very powerful man this committee wants to bring in to ask some questions about welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ.
00:16:24
Speaker 3: We are talking about.
00:16:25
Speaker 2: A pretty stunning scene on Capitol Hill. One of the most powerful men in the world, billionaire Bill Gates, Microsoft fonder under oath, testifying before a House committee about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And we did get his opening statement. He released it actually on the Gates Foundation website.
00:16:46
Speaker 3: But what we didn't get to see.
00:16:48
Speaker 2: And we do usually get these transcripts at some point in time, was the grilling that he underwent for six hours, with lawmakers from both sides of the aisle asking him detailed questions, and when they came out during breaks, they were offering different assessments about how he was doing or what what was happening inside and it depended on who you asked what their reaction was.
00:17:11
Speaker 3: Shocking, I know, but it was odd.
00:17:13
Speaker 1: It wasn't simply split along party lines, that was it.
00:17:16
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. So we had geopay GOP representative Tim.
00:17:25
Speaker 2: And I ended on a preposition when I tossed a break and the wrong preposition. But let's just say some of us only got two and a half hours of sleep last night. Thank you next, but thank you next seriously, thank you next, yes.
00:17:36
Speaker 3: Okay, all right.
00:17:37
Speaker 2: Uh. Congressman Burchett described the questioning as intense. Republican there a Democrat came out and said Gates was combative and not terribly forthcoming or candid, so that wasn't exactly a glowing account of what happened. The top ranking Democrat, Congressman Garcia, described gates act as a horrific judgment call and said that Gates did push back on some of the questioning, but he did say he is answering the questions. So look, either it sounds like he was combative in moments, some people felt like he wasn't being transparent or forthcoming, and to hear that it was intense. So I'm interested in the transcript. I have no idea. I think he testified one other time Gates did many many years ago, and it was also described as intense.
00:18:29
Speaker 1: Isn't this How have they been in their turnarounds for the transcripts?
00:18:34
Speaker 2: We use again a few bits a couple of days, a couple of days we get to see how exactly it went.
00:18:39
Speaker 3: But look, this is a continuing process for this House Oversight Committee.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: James Comer has been very vocal about who he'd like to have sitting there facing members of Congress. He wants Alan Dershowitz next. And look, Alan Dershowitz has been a cent figure in the Jeffrey Epstein saga. Look my interview with Virginia's Euphrey all those years ago that never aired. She talked specifically about Dershowitz, and he has been very vocal in his denials about having anything to do with any of the young women who were abused. But some of these young women, women, especially Virginia, said otherwise. So, yeah, it would be very interesting to hear what prominent former Harvard lawyer Alan Dershowitz would have to say. He would definitely have to be compelled to testify. He is not coming voluntarily. I feel very certain about.
00:19:37
Speaker 1: That, and I feel like he would have a very good legal argument for why you can't compel him to come testify. Oh my, how that showdown. There's no talk of subpoena and sending a subpoena to him just at this.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Not yet, I think the wording was Committee Chair James Comer said he is planning to ask attorney Alan.
00:19:56
Speaker 3: Dershowitz to appear. That sounds very luck with that very black comber.
00:20:01
Speaker 2: He said he's also been in communication with the DOJ because they would also like Attorney General Todd Blanche to come in for questioning as well. And of course Blanche, I think everyone can remember, very famously sat down with Gallaine Maxwell and shortly after that big sit down interview, she was transferred to a minimum security camp fed a hotel in Texas that has, you know, just a few locks.
00:20:29
Speaker 1: You can't leave, but it's just a hotel.
00:20:34
Speaker 3: It's like the Hotel California.
00:20:36
Speaker 1: Well, Todd Blanche, isn't he the one didn't Pam BONDI just throw him under the bus recently?
00:20:42
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yes, but she's out of a job and he's now the new Attorney general nominee and the acting Attorney General.
00:20:49
Speaker 3: So look, this is far from over. This has been fascinating.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Not sure that there have been any massive new revelations in all of this, but at least you are seeing people held accountable to the point that they're being asked formal questions. And eventually we will get to see the full transcript of what Bill Gates had to say answering question confirming Robes.
00:21:10
Speaker 1: Yes, he is still on the list. The nineteenth richest person in the world. Bill Gates valued it over one hundred and three billion dollars. So he is still as he's giving all of his money away, he still remain one of the richest. In my adult life, I think he has been on the list of richest folks. He just lives there on that list.
00:21:30
Speaker 2: But ain't It's so interesting how the thought of getting more money for his charity, for his foundation blinded him from what was right there. Easily Google old bull Google Google.
00:21:43
Speaker 3: Okay, I need to stop talking.
00:21:45
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I'm a podcaster now, so that's gonna be tough for the rest of the day.
00:21:48
Speaker 1: So bear with me. Everybody can't just sit here and look pretty anyway.
00:21:51
Speaker 3: Maybe we could just have some fun. What's Amy going to say next?
00:21:54
Speaker 2: All right, So stay tuned for the feed for what could possibly come. But we always appreciate you listening to us.
00:22:00
Speaker 3: Everyone. I'm Amy Roeboch alongside T. J. Holmes. We will talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Hey, they folks did. It's Thursday, June eleventh, and another high profile, famous, powerful man has been hauled in to give testimony before Congress having to do with his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And what did he testify to I don't know nothing, I ain't see nothing, I ain't do nothing. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ ropes. Not necessarily forbad him. I think Bill Gates might have been a little more eloquent in he's how he said it, but that's what he said.
00:00:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, And this is, as you pointed out, one of the most powerful men, billionaires in the world, who was essentially being blackmailed by one of the most prolific pedophiles in the world.
00:00:48
Speaker 1: He might have been one of the most prolific blackmailers. This follows a pattern. This is what people want. You want leverage over people in some way. And this part was interesting, really.
00:00:56
Speaker 2: And that is where so many of the conspiracy theories continue to have legs, because yes, it is true, it has been proven. And we heard directly from Bill Gates that yes, he was among the men who Jeffrey Epstein had goods on and threatened to use them to try and continual relationship with or at least continue to use Bill Gates's good name at the time to benefit him. And that is part of what the Congressional the House Oversight Committee is trying to come to terms with, to try to figure out how Epstein rose to power, investigate the investigation, and just try to give some more information to a very curious American public.
00:01:37
Speaker 1: I guess we're getting a little more insight, a little more detail. There's some curiosity here. I'm not sure, rogue, do we got anything that overwhelmingly changes the narrative, but it just I think it just adds to it a little more understanding. But yeah, this is further evidence in that camp man. What did he have on everybody exactly?
00:01:58
Speaker 2: And so this was a closed door deposition, and Bill Gates himself actually released his opening statement to the committee, much like we saw from Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton when they were compelled to testify back in February. Bill Gates, however, made it very clear he came voluntarily. And as he was walking into the Capitol, of course, you know, you had all those reporters throwing Mike's at him, and he said he was there hoping that he could help lawmakers quote fine justice for the victims.
00:02:28
Speaker 3: As he went into testify, I was.
00:02:30
Speaker 1: Very surprised to see him stop and make a statement of any kind. He didn't take questions, but he did. He stood there and looked calm and confident. He looks throwing in.
00:02:39
Speaker 2: He looked a little different, He looks thin. He did, right, And that stood out to me. I don't know if you noticed that too.
00:02:44
Speaker 1: I guess we don't see him that often. He's not as prominent as far as up to date pictures, right, we don't see him that often. But yeah, I thought you looked pretty good.
00:02:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean when I said that, like, he looked healthy. He didn't look sickly, he looked healthy. But yeah, he's just the latest powerful person linked to Jeffrey Epsty to testify. And I think you all probably remember that his name did appear fairly prominently in some.
00:03:07
Speaker 1: Emails, prominently and frequently and.
00:03:10
Speaker 3: Embarrassingly in those files.
00:03:12
Speaker 2: In some of these emails, in fact, that Jeffrey Epstein emailed himself almost as if he were making notes to remember what was happening, or maybe there were drafts. I think it was suggested if emails he was going to send to Bill Gates in that big DOJ Epstein dumping those emails. The contents of them were frankly very embarrassing to Bill Gates. It was the very material that Jeffrey Epstein was holding over his head to blackmail him.
00:03:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as a reminder, I mean some of the style least still draft email it suggested or said that Bill Gates was surreptitiously trying to give his wife drugs to treat an STD that he had given her that he gotten from having extramarital affairs. I mean, that's pretty tough stuff.
00:03:57
Speaker 3: Correct in this file? Correct?
00:04:00
Speaker 2: Actually have in one of the emails, Epstein wrote to add insult to the injury. You then subsequently, with tears in your eyes, implore me to please delete the emails regarding your STD, your request that I provide you antibiotics that you can surreptitiously give to Melinda, and description of your penis. So, yes, this was an email in the DOJ dump.
00:04:26
Speaker 1: And yes, and it didn't make sense why Jeffrey Epstein would write that draft to himself. Does this mean he was I don't know, was he making this up and getting prepared to put that out or was this all true? So Bill Gates at the time came out and made a statement and said all this stuff was untrue.
00:04:48
Speaker 2: Yes, And there was another email just to see where we're going with and what he's referencing when we read you as opening statements. There was another email from a former Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation chief advisor who talked about in this email about things he had been asked to do that he felt were morally inappropriate or even ethically unsound.
00:05:11
Speaker 3: And he said from.
00:05:13
Speaker 2: Helping Bill to get drugs in order to deal with consequences of sex with Russian girls, to facilitating his illicit trysts with married women, to being asked to provide adderall for bridge tournaments as I am a medical doctor but have no prescriptions writing ability.
00:05:29
Speaker 3: So all of this was back and forth.
00:05:32
Speaker 2: With Epstein, and it just was it was a very tough PR day for Bill Gates to say the least.
00:05:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he, from what I remember ropes, he responded pretty immediately to this and pretty extensively. He kind of said a lot. I can't remember if he was on camera, but oh, didn't he have to After this he spoke to the foundation, didn't he have a meeting. In the notes of that meeting got out he had to talk to them.
00:05:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:05:55
Speaker 1: So yes, he has been out there and admitting and saying I had aim miss this was a mistake to have this relationship. So he gets hauled in robes. It seems like, based on the Epstein files and things that we are aware of, maybe he does know something. Maybe he did see something, Maybe he was aware of something, maybe he was around something. Maybe he can help us move this investigation along.
00:06:17
Speaker 2: Okay, well we have his opening statement, and in addition to just thanking the committee and actually calling it an opportunity to appear before them, he actually said he was looking forward to answering their.
00:06:28
Speaker 1: Question, saying all the right stuff.
00:06:30
Speaker 2: Doesn't seem that's how the Clintons opened, But okay, Bill Gates maybe started out a little friendly.
00:06:34
Speaker 1: What was Clinton's wonderful line at the Annie's fire away? Something great?
00:06:40
Speaker 2: They didn't act as if they were excited about it. Ask her questions. But he begins with at the outset, I want to stay very clearly, I never witnessed, nor had any indication that Epstein was engaged in ongoing criminal conduct. I never went to his island, his ranch or his Florida home. I've never victimized anyone. While he may have sought to foster a personal relationship, I was never interested in that and never reciprocated.
00:07:08
Speaker 1: So, like I said, didn't know nothing, didn't do nothing, didn't see nothing.
00:07:11
Speaker 3: Yes, that was the verbatim of your synopsis.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Okay, he might as well just say that and say, okay, give me questions. Okay, Well get it. I don't know anything this guy that I knew. I am in here in Congress to testify about my relationship. Let me start with this. I know nothing.
00:07:27
Speaker 3: And by the way, it was a five year relationship. Well, uh okay.
00:07:32
Speaker 2: So he goes on to kind of give some details. He said, I was introduced to Epstein in twenty eleven through people I trusted in my professional and philanthropic work.
00:07:40
Speaker 3: Epstein claimed he could raise billions.
00:07:43
Speaker 2: Of dollars for global health from people for whom he provided tax and estate services. I recall being aware that Epstein had faced prior legal issues, but I did not fully understand the extent of the crimes he committed. I accepted the introduction without applying the scrutiny I should have.
00:08:02
Speaker 1: That's for a guy who's become one of the most influential men in business the world has ever known, one of the most I mean, one of the richest men the world has ever known. I didn't do my homework on this new guy that was just handed to me.
00:08:17
Speaker 3: It does seem a bit bizarre.
00:08:19
Speaker 2: And when you find out he's acknowledging he knew he was a convicted criminal. Did he not want to know what he did? And when you heard predator, child sex offender, possible, well, not possible, convicted pedophile, would you not? I mean, do you gloss it over by thinking as she was probably sixteen?
00:08:37
Speaker 1: So what's the line there about what he was aware of?
00:08:40
Speaker 3: He was aware that Epstein had faced prior legal issues. That's how he phrased it. That's where you lose me.
00:08:49
Speaker 1: He okay, come on, okay. I didn't realize he lost us so early in his statement it sweetheart deal.
00:08:54
Speaker 2: Epstein' sweetheart deal was in two thousand and seven. This is four years after the fact. There was information online everywhere about him.
00:09:03
Speaker 3: At that point. It would have only required a Google.
00:09:07
Speaker 1: Sech we even when you meet somebody and before you go on the first date, you can google him and find this out to say he didn't do enough research. Sounds a little odd, but to this sounds legal. It sounds lawyer. It's the way he put it. Be aware of he had some prior legal issues. Well, that's vague. Okay, I want to take him at his word here, but that's uh, that's vague and it's tough to believe.
00:09:32
Speaker 2: Agreed, So yes, Then he describes having like three meetings with Epstein in twenty eleven, a couple in twenty twelve, and then he claims there were more extensive conversations in twenty thirteen and twenty fourteen, and so then he goes specifically in twenty fourteen. So this is five years after meeting him. After Epstein brought together a group he described as potential donors, I realized that our prior discussions would should have translated into meaningful, filling throat topic support were a dead end. It was clear that no one in the group was interested enough to move forward. At that point, I concluded Epstein would never deliver on his promises. I told him we would go no further and stopped communicating or meeting with him. No vehicle for charitable giving was ever created, and no funds were raised. So he claims all of his interactions with Epstein ended in December of twenty fourteen, and he made the point to say that was four years before new reports in the press shed light on the extent of his crimes. Look, I was doing investigative reporting on him in twenty sixteen, so maybe he could say it was a few years away from a renewed interest in what Epstein was doing.
00:10:42
Speaker 3: But this was in the height of his criminal activity.
00:10:46
Speaker 1: Help me with the convictions in Florida were twenty seven Oh my god. Okay, So he fires it up with his guy in twenty eleven, yes, twenty fourteen, correct, fifteen?
00:10:57
Speaker 3: Correct?
00:10:58
Speaker 1: Okay, all right.
00:10:59
Speaker 2: So he claims then that he has an employee engaged to engage Epstein into negotiating the separation, that they were going to formally not be doing business together. But then he says it was after this that I learned Epstein had become aware of sensitive information about my personal life, including the fact that I have been unfaithful in my marriage. These affairs had nothing to do with my interactions with Epstein, but they were painful for my family. As the public can now see based on what has been released in the files, Epstein was working to use information about my infidelities, in addition to many lies that he layered on top to pressure me to re engage with him.
00:11:46
Speaker 3: He was unsuccessful in.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: This effort, but it shows some of the ways he tried to leverage his interactions with me to further his agenda. Look, if he had no personal connection, no personal relationship with him, if this were just a few business meetings that went nowhere, how did Epstein have all this information about women and drugs and STDs and all of these other things.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: You know what, I wouldn't be surprised if Epstein had his ways. Now, that's one thing I can I would believe based on what we know about this guy. He just knew stuff, and he knew how to get information. He knew how to get into a room, he knew how to get people together. He just seemed like a guy who would have a file on everybody he does work with.
00:12:30
Speaker 2: Right, But it's just interesting if you know that Jeffrey Epstein was known to gather women from around the world to be around these powerful men with money, it just seems strange that that was independent of Epstein, that he apparently had affairs with Russian girls.
00:12:48
Speaker 1: You were saying he would have been rolling with Epstein for some of his gig.
00:12:53
Speaker 2: That is the implicator, and that is what you would think. It'd be strange that those two things weren't connected in a same way.
00:12:58
Speaker 1: And I had them disconnect because of the underage nature of a lot of what Epstein was doing. And we should say, if we haven't yet, Bill Gates has not been accused in any way of any criminals, not as.
00:13:11
Speaker 2: Consenting adults, consenting adults as who he has admitted to having affairs.
00:13:17
Speaker 1: And those folks he was involved with are not connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Now, Rhodes, I haven't done with you. Maybe a lot of people are doing what you're doing. I didn't do that. I didn't put the two things together.
00:13:28
Speaker 2: And they might not go together, but it's hard to imagine that there isn't a space where they could. So I think that's where he's trying to distance himself, obviously from those two things being connected, but they're in the same vein the age obviously significant and certainly the women who have been named, and there have been names, have acknowledged a relationship that was consensual, So there's no criminal implication for Bill Gates, but he went on to say, I should never have met with Epstein in the first place, based on what I know now, I understand that even if he had delivered the new donors he promised, it would not have justified associating with him. And he goes on to acknowledge that just by being associated with Bill Gates, by allowing him into his life, he legitimized a criminal, He legitimized the pedophile, at least by his association with him.
00:14:22
Speaker 1: So he is acknowledging that because now he has even more clout because he's rolling.
00:14:27
Speaker 3: With Bill Gates exactly exactly.
00:14:30
Speaker 2: And so this was the big thing that Gates testified to that made headlines. He went on to say, meeting with Epstein was a grave error in judgment and put this work at risk, meaning his philanthropic work.
00:14:44
Speaker 3: His behavior was.
00:14:47
Speaker 2: Antithetical to all my efforts to contribute to a world where everyone has a chance to live a healthy and productive life. If the time I spent with Epstein lent him any credibility, I am deeply sorry, learned a significant lesson and am now far more careful about who I engage with, even in a limited capacity. That seems so strange for the billionaire who founded Microsoft to have to say, now, upon reflection.
00:15:13
Speaker 1: I have to be careful about who I let it in.
00:15:14
Speaker 3: My way, I've learned the lesson now what really fine.
00:15:19
Speaker 1: But again, it's kind of one of those things. If somebody you respect that much walks in here and introduces you to a guy, you would just say, fine, this person has to be legit. There are plenty of people in our lives. Well, I don't know why straight hand comes the mind. If somebody like that, a friend, somebody you're close to, somebody you know is good in business, introduces you to somebody, they are immediately legitimate in your eyes? Are they not?
00:15:40
Speaker 2: It does lend them credibility, But it's still when you're the person who Bill Gates was even at that time, you still have to do your own due diligence.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong. We google it makes everybody all right.
00:15:55
Speaker 2: When we come back, we're gonna tell you what the lawmakers who were grilling Gates for those six hours, by the way, what they had to say about his testimony, and who the next very powerful man this committee wants to bring in to ask some questions about welcome back everyone to this episode of Amy and TJ.
00:16:24
Speaker 3: We are talking about.
00:16:25
Speaker 2: A pretty stunning scene on Capitol Hill. One of the most powerful men in the world, billionaire Bill Gates, Microsoft fonder under oath, testifying before a House committee about his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And we did get his opening statement. He released it actually on the Gates Foundation website.
00:16:46
Speaker 3: But what we didn't get to see.
00:16:48
Speaker 2: And we do usually get these transcripts at some point in time, was the grilling that he underwent for six hours, with lawmakers from both sides of the aisle asking him detailed questions, and when they came out during breaks, they were offering different assessments about how he was doing or what what was happening inside and it depended on who you asked what their reaction was.
00:17:11
Speaker 3: Shocking, I know, but it was odd.
00:17:13
Speaker 1: It wasn't simply split along party lines, that was it.
00:17:16
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. So we had geopay GOP representative Tim.
00:17:25
Speaker 2: And I ended on a preposition when I tossed a break and the wrong preposition. But let's just say some of us only got two and a half hours of sleep last night. Thank you next, but thank you next seriously, thank you next, yes.
00:17:36
Speaker 3: Okay, all right.
00:17:37
Speaker 2: Uh. Congressman Burchett described the questioning as intense. Republican there a Democrat came out and said Gates was combative and not terribly forthcoming or candid, so that wasn't exactly a glowing account of what happened. The top ranking Democrat, Congressman Garcia, described gates act as a horrific judgment call and said that Gates did push back on some of the questioning, but he did say he is answering the questions. So look, either it sounds like he was combative in moments, some people felt like he wasn't being transparent or forthcoming, and to hear that it was intense. So I'm interested in the transcript. I have no idea. I think he testified one other time Gates did many many years ago, and it was also described as intense.
00:18:29
Speaker 1: Isn't this How have they been in their turnarounds for the transcripts?
00:18:34
Speaker 2: We use again a few bits a couple of days, a couple of days we get to see how exactly it went.
00:18:39
Speaker 3: But look, this is a continuing process for this House Oversight Committee.
00:18:44
Speaker 2: James Comer has been very vocal about who he'd like to have sitting there facing members of Congress. He wants Alan Dershowitz next. And look, Alan Dershowitz has been a cent figure in the Jeffrey Epstein saga. Look my interview with Virginia's Euphrey all those years ago that never aired. She talked specifically about Dershowitz, and he has been very vocal in his denials about having anything to do with any of the young women who were abused. But some of these young women, women, especially Virginia, said otherwise. So, yeah, it would be very interesting to hear what prominent former Harvard lawyer Alan Dershowitz would have to say. He would definitely have to be compelled to testify. He is not coming voluntarily. I feel very certain about.
00:19:37
Speaker 1: That, and I feel like he would have a very good legal argument for why you can't compel him to come testify. Oh my, how that showdown. There's no talk of subpoena and sending a subpoena to him just at this.
00:19:48
Speaker 2: Not yet, I think the wording was Committee Chair James Comer said he is planning to ask attorney Alan.
00:19:56
Speaker 3: Dershowitz to appear. That sounds very luck with that very black comber.
00:20:01
Speaker 2: He said he's also been in communication with the DOJ because they would also like Attorney General Todd Blanche to come in for questioning as well. And of course Blanche, I think everyone can remember, very famously sat down with Gallaine Maxwell and shortly after that big sit down interview, she was transferred to a minimum security camp fed a hotel in Texas that has, you know, just a few locks.
00:20:29
Speaker 1: You can't leave, but it's just a hotel.
00:20:34
Speaker 3: It's like the Hotel California.
00:20:36
Speaker 1: Well, Todd Blanche, isn't he the one didn't Pam BONDI just throw him under the bus recently?
00:20:42
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yes, but she's out of a job and he's now the new Attorney general nominee and the acting Attorney General.
00:20:49
Speaker 3: So look, this is far from over. This has been fascinating.
00:20:53
Speaker 2: Not sure that there have been any massive new revelations in all of this, but at least you are seeing people held accountable to the point that they're being asked formal questions. And eventually we will get to see the full transcript of what Bill Gates had to say answering question confirming Robes.
00:21:10
Speaker 1: Yes, he is still on the list. The nineteenth richest person in the world. Bill Gates valued it over one hundred and three billion dollars. So he is still as he's giving all of his money away, he still remain one of the richest. In my adult life, I think he has been on the list of richest folks. He just lives there on that list.
00:21:30
Speaker 2: But ain't It's so interesting how the thought of getting more money for his charity, for his foundation blinded him from what was right there. Easily Google old bull Google Google.
00:21:43
Speaker 3: Okay, I need to stop talking.
00:21:45
Speaker 1: Wow.
00:21:45
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I'm a podcaster now, so that's gonna be tough for the rest of the day.
00:21:48
Speaker 1: So bear with me. Everybody can't just sit here and look pretty anyway.
00:21:51
Speaker 3: Maybe we could just have some fun. What's Amy going to say next?
00:21:54
Speaker 2: All right, So stay tuned for the feed for what could possibly come. But we always appreciate you listening to us.
00:22:00
Speaker 3: Everyone. I'm Amy Roeboch alongside T. J. Holmes. We will talk to you soon.