Beware of a New Toxic Dating Trend: “Ghostlighting”

00:00:10
Speaker 1: Hey, that folks.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: It is Saturday, March seventh, and I have no idea what this episode of Amy and TJ is about. With that, welcome to this episode. This is one of these we do every once in a while and they can be fun. We should do them more often. But Robes has kept me in the dark about this new dating trend that's out there, and she wanted to get my honest, immediate, authentic reaction to it.

00:00:34
Speaker 1: I really don't know what this is.

00:00:36
Speaker 3: Yes, I love you know, I don't know about any of you, but I love reading about new dating trends or toxic dating trends, even though I'm not dating. It's just kind of funny to see where things are. And honestly, with my daughter's dating, it's just it's so different than when we were in the mix.

00:00:52
Speaker 4: But there is a new it's called a toxic dating.

00:00:56
Speaker 1: Toxic so this isn't a good thing.

00:00:57
Speaker 3: It's not a good thing, and it's something to be aware of. So if you're out there and I say this phrase, you may be like, uh, huh, been there, done that scene it, experienced it, But I want to get what you.

00:01:07
Speaker 4: Think this might be. It's called ghost lighting.

00:01:11
Speaker 1: Well, we have gas lighting, right?

00:01:12
Speaker 3: Right?

00:01:13
Speaker 1: So ghosting, am I on the right track?

00:01:15
Speaker 4: Correct?

00:01:16
Speaker 2: Ghosting is is when you just bounce on somebody. So ghost lighting is it when huh what is it? You disappear but blame the other person for it.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: How does this work?

00:01:26
Speaker 4: Okay, that's actually you're on the right track.

00:01:28
Speaker 3: So it's a toxic combination of ghosting and gas lighting.

00:01:31
Speaker 4: So you got that right? Ding ding ding ding ding.

00:01:34
Speaker 3: Here's what happens ghost lighters. They'll they'll ghost, they'll drop all communication. You won't know where they went or why they left, and then they'll reinitiate contact later and act as if nothing happened and they didn't do anything wrong.

00:01:49
Speaker 4: So they gaslight you. Wait, so they ghost you.

00:01:52
Speaker 2: They don't come back and explain why they've been going on. They just show back up and everything's normal. I don't want to grab a.

00:01:57
Speaker 4: Drink, yep, So they guess. So, so here's that's what they do.

00:02:00
Speaker 3: They ghost, They show back up, and then they gaslight the person they were dating into believing they never ghosted them.

00:02:09
Speaker 2: What you convince someone that, oh I wasn't going I didn't hear from you that kind of a thing. Oh you never hit me back. I remember we're supposed to go to this thing. I didn't hear from you. Now, how much time are we talking? Like a week, two weeks, two months, six months, It could.

00:02:23
Speaker 4: Be any period of time.

00:02:24
Speaker 3: So there was a dating expert who put it like this when she was trying to describe.

00:02:28
Speaker 4: What ghost lighting is.

00:02:29
Speaker 3: This is so interesting, she said, what makes it different from simple ghosting is the psychological twist. Ghosting is avoidance. Ghost Lighting adds distortion by manipulating the facts, so you're doubting your own.

00:02:43
Speaker 1: Reality, which is gaslighting. Correct.

00:02:47
Speaker 3: So they were saying, here's what you look out for because when the ghost lighter reinitiates contact and wants to reach out to you and hit you up, they'll do it on social media.

00:02:59
Speaker 4: Likes first, so it's kind of subtle. They'll start liking your social.

00:03:01
Speaker 3: Media posts again, or they might slide into your DMS just kind of like casually, like hey, checking in on you, or they'll actually start texting you. But they're saying that this is now a trend that's emerging that has never really been seen.

00:03:17
Speaker 4: Before because now, yes, everyone's on dating.

00:03:19
Speaker 3: Apps, everyone, they're not doing the face to face stuff. So when you're doing it on apps and you're texting, they can kind of make you think like, oh, well, maybe I just missed this DM.

00:03:29
Speaker 1: Well that makes sense.

00:03:30
Speaker 3: Just you've heard folks, because we love to watch some of these dating shows like ninety Day Fiance, you've heard people react like, oh, he's liking my posts? Now does that mean that that he wants to get back to?

00:03:43
Speaker 4: What's that saying?

00:03:44
Speaker 3: So everyone's always trying to interpret online activity differently, and so that leaves some gray area for this to occur.

00:03:52
Speaker 2: Does this does it happen whatever you're researching and reading, Does it happen equally with men and women? Is a man more likely to do with a woman to do it? Or it's well equal opportunity here?

00:04:02
Speaker 3: That wasn't I didn't see that, but I would if I'm just a someone basing this on anecdotal evidence, I would think this is maybe more something that men.

00:04:12
Speaker 4: Why because it just is how many women just ghost men? I mean, I guess it happens, but I feel like it's more men who do that.

00:04:20
Speaker 1: To say ghost women? Huh, how would I know? I don't know what's going on in this dating world, and.

00:04:25
Speaker 3: You know what, and I don't think people in the dating world, know what's going on in the dating world, because they say, so many relationships are now situationships, so many connections are in a gray zone.

00:04:37
Speaker 4: I see this and hear this from my daughters.

00:04:39
Speaker 1: I'm confused. What's a situationship? Again?

00:04:41
Speaker 2: We hear it all the time. We think we have a general idea. Is this what we called what friends with benefits? Or what do we call this? At some point a situationship where you're you're seeing other people.

00:04:53
Speaker 3: Maybe, but it's kind of unclear, like you're in a situation with this person, but it's not a defined relationationship so that you're texting, right, you're damning some people want that you're seeing each other, but you haven't actually defined what your relationship is.

00:05:09
Speaker 4: And look, I know that.

00:05:13
Speaker 3: People I don't think have these social skills, or a lot of younger folks don't and haven't developed the face to face social skills where you actually flat out say.

00:05:21
Speaker 4: Hey, what is this that we're doing?

00:05:24
Speaker 1: Are we social skills to ask a question?

00:05:26
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:05:27
Speaker 3: Because I think it feels, oh, that's too intrusive, right, I don't want to.

00:05:29
Speaker 4: Push you know, how do we get there?

00:05:32
Speaker 3: But even here your own thirteen year old daughter who's just now starting to have friends saying who's dating whom? And it's all happening on text, It's all happening on social media. It's not happening face to face the same way it did with us. We pass notes maybe in class, but that's we still had to communicate face to face or at least on the phone.

00:05:56
Speaker 2: But because of now how people go about dating and interacting, it has opened up an opportunity for something like ghost lighting to be prevalent.

00:06:05
Speaker 1: Is what you're saying, correct?

00:06:06
Speaker 2: How much of this, though, is somebody having a regret or a second thought, or say, Okay, I'm I'm bored tonight, let me go hit this person up again?

00:06:18
Speaker 1: Yeah? Right?

00:06:19
Speaker 2: Is that I'm trying to find the motivation for the ghost lighting? Is it just a matter of hey, we're I'm seeing other people, you're seeing other people. I'll get back to you when I can, when I need to or when I'm bored. Yeah.

00:06:32
Speaker 3: I think the ghost lighting is someone trying to control what they want when they want it, and then not wanting to take any sort of responsibility for what that might do to someone else.

00:06:43
Speaker 2: Psychologically, we uhould just call that a crappy partner, right, that is.

00:06:48
Speaker 4: A jerk and asking yes yes.

00:06:51
Speaker 3: But I thought this was interesting this dating expert who was weighing in on this, I was reading this article. She said, the ambiguity, this gray zone, you know that we're talking about where no one really knows where things stands.

00:07:01
Speaker 4: Everyone is just in a situationship.

00:07:04
Speaker 3: That ambiguity is what gives people now today an easy exit.

00:07:09
Speaker 4: Out of a relationship.

00:07:10
Speaker 3: And then when someone can exit without any consequence, they can come back without any consequence.

00:07:17
Speaker 4: And that is what is happening.

00:07:18
Speaker 2: Oh, because you're not actually you're not actually being reprimanded if you will, for being wrong or being a jerk, or for dumping anybody.

00:07:29
Speaker 1: Right, because it disappears.

00:07:30
Speaker 3: It was never clear what you were anyway, and so that's part of the issue. So there are some tips for folks, for anyone out there, if this is ringing a bell, if this is resonated, if you were like, oh my god, that's what's happening to me.

00:07:44
Speaker 4: Now it has a name.

00:07:45
Speaker 2: Before you get to the tips, where did this come like this? Are they just another thing where they're start assigning names to things on social media or there something that has been researched by therapists. Where does this come from?

00:07:56
Speaker 1: Anyway?

00:07:57
Speaker 3: I think people start talking about it online, people start then realizing it's happening actually quite often, and then yes, people give it cute names.

00:08:06
Speaker 4: And I don't know if this has gotten any sort of grant.

00:08:08
Speaker 3: For funding to research, but it is interesting you hear about. We were actually laughing about all these trends. There was something this week called Alpine divorce. It was macab I was like, what you go and do outdoor activities and then leave and leave them alone and they have to find their way home.

00:08:24
Speaker 4: What that sounds like a dateline?

00:08:26
Speaker 1: I look for that episode tomorrow Divorce.

00:08:29
Speaker 4: I didn't even want to go there.

00:08:30
Speaker 3: I felt like ghost lighting was a little safer space to talk about. But if it's happening to you, this is These are the tips from folks relationship. Back to worts, they say, do not smooth it over, call that person out.

00:08:44
Speaker 4: You have to say to them.

00:08:46
Speaker 3: They actually gave language to use to somebody like I think people are afraid of demanding what they want or speaking out loud what they deserve, and so they just kind of let stuff happen. They're saying, you have to actually call people out and say when you stopped responding. I took that as a lack of interest and a lack of communication.

00:09:08
Speaker 4: And then the big thing is pause, see what they say back.

00:09:12
Speaker 3: Don't start explaining how you felt, or just say you stopped responding. I took that as you didn't want to be in this relationship. You weren't communicating with me.

00:09:24
Speaker 1: First of all, it wasn't a relationship, it was a situationship. Is how a jerkquil.

00:09:28
Speaker 4: Responds yeah, right, yes, and so yes and you.

00:09:31
Speaker 3: The point being is listen, pause, do not say anything else. I think that's something that I have to remember to do often. Don't fill the silence. Silence is so powerful because eventually that tension, that silence will force the other person to have to speak, and then you have to listen.

00:09:48
Speaker 4: Do they take responsibility? Make sure they.

00:09:52
Speaker 3: Acknowledge you're right I did stop communicating with you, or if they just minimize it or deflect, well you you were busy and I was busy, and you knew I had to go. Then you know that person is making excuses and is not going to be serious about this relationship.

00:10:08
Speaker 4: You have more tips on the list, Well, that's the big.

00:10:11
Speaker 3: You just need to demand an answer. You cannot take ambiguity as a response.

00:10:15
Speaker 2: Okay, ask cause you just triggered another question. Is it always intentionally manipulative or is this something that's just a consequence of how people are dating?

00:10:25
Speaker 4: Now you know what I think it might be. It might be both.

00:10:28
Speaker 3: I think I think you also could maybe unintentionally do this, maybe just because it's permitted if no one calls you want it. I do think that that happens a lot with bad behavior. If you are being allowed to behave a certain way, think about a kid with a parent, You're probably going to do it because we are selfish by nature.

00:10:45
Speaker 4: That is survival, right, we are born selfish.

00:10:50
Speaker 3: So yeah, we're going to take what we want when we want it, and then we're going to move until someone calls you want it.

00:10:56
Speaker 4: And so that's kind of the point.

00:10:57
Speaker 3: If you are serious about being in a relationship with somebody, you cannot let this slide.

00:11:01
Speaker 4: You have to call them on it.

00:11:03
Speaker 3: So when we come back, we're going to tell you now what the relationship experts say you should never do.

00:11:10
Speaker 4: If you think you're being ghost lighted.

00:11:22
Speaker 2: Welcome back. She's laughing at me because what's the right language. This is a new word, so I don't know past tense. It goes lighted a gut ghost lit when during.

00:11:33
Speaker 4: The commercial break?

00:11:34
Speaker 3: That is the question he asked me, and I laughed so hard because I hadn't considered it.

00:11:38
Speaker 4: I guess I was using it as a verb, and ghost.

00:11:41
Speaker 3: Lighting is an action. But are you are you ghost have you been ghost lit? I just got ghost or have you been ghost lighted?

00:11:48
Speaker 1: Man? I don't know which you want to go with. That's funny, but yes, goes lighting. This is interesting, But I am I am. I asked you a question before we went to the break.

00:11:59
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by the idea of if this is just a consequence and is not necessarily intentional or meant to be manipulative. I'm sure if someone does that, but just the nature of how they do it. Now I think, I, well, one of your daughters like this. I hear about their dating and how they go about it, and it's just, what do you mean you haven't met way you mean you've been talking on what oh, what do you mean?

00:12:21
Speaker 1: This and that? And you're just going for this. I don't understand their dating.

00:12:25
Speaker 2: So it's a matter of sometimes you don't have to follow up, you don't have to reach out again. You don't have to see that person in the hallway or at the office or in the call.

00:12:35
Speaker 3: You don't see them, I know, And yet your feelings still get hurt. Right, nothing's changed about who we are on the inside. And I think about it from a female perspective, and a lot of these like, look, you're wanting answers, but you're afraid to push too hard. You don't want to be annoying or ask well do you really like me? You don't want to seem insecure. And in that sense, you just let people get away with treating you like crap because you don't want to be demanding and you don't want to be that girl. And so I do think still, yes, yes, and I do look back in the day this was all happening on phone in a real conversation.

00:13:11
Speaker 4: Now this is all happening by text.

00:13:12
Speaker 3: So yes, I hear from You're right, one of my daughters who's like, I don't know what's going on. He was texting me for hours and hours and hours and then silent, you know, and I don't know what to do. And because they never saw each other, and they're not talking.

00:13:24
Speaker 4: It's it's extra confusing. It's a total mind game out.

00:13:28
Speaker 2: And then they laugh at me because when I hear that story from your daughter is about dating, I say, what's the problem here, Send a message right now and ask what's up? What's the big deal? Why are we sitting around? And I get shot down every time. Of course I'm not gonna do that. Of course you can't do that. Of course you can't reach out. Of course you can't talk.

00:13:46
Speaker 4: You gotta play it cool. You gotta play it like you don't care. You gotta play it.

00:13:49
Speaker 3: Like it no't matter and it wasn't a big deal. And oh I wasn't that into you anyway. That's the ego talking.

00:13:55
Speaker 1: But yeah, you know where.

00:13:56
Speaker 2: I am on that. We just don't have time. We're grown and we're adult folks. It's okay to ask somebody how they feel.

00:14:03
Speaker 4: Your rejection is what it is.

00:14:05
Speaker 2: And you know what, get rejected now instead of in five years. It's okay, Like it's okay. We're not building ourselves up. We're not building our kids up for disappointment later.

00:14:17
Speaker 4: It could be much better to be disappointed now.

00:14:19
Speaker 1: You have to go through these things.

00:14:21
Speaker 2: You know how many towns My heart was broken before I was a senior in high school.

00:14:25
Speaker 1: I mean, just you go through it. You just it's a part of it.

00:14:28
Speaker 2: So I see these games sometimes being played and it's it's a whole new it's a whole new world.

00:14:35
Speaker 4: All right. Well, if you think this is happening to you, here is what not to do.

00:14:38
Speaker 3: I love this advice. It's applicable to so many things. We were just talking about. Everyone always wanting the why, and it's so destructive. So number one, no matter what, do not look for why they go slide at you. The quote from the relationship expert is this, It can drive you crazy trying to psycho analyze the person and figure out why they did it. It does not help to solve the mystery.

00:15:05
Speaker 2: Are they saying that don't even ask the person why or just don't get in your own head.

00:15:09
Speaker 4: Either way they say, yes, don't look for it.

00:15:12
Speaker 3: They say it actually helps you heal to not solve the mystery because it allows you, This is what we were just saying, to process the hurt, to process the rejection, and to admit to yourself that it felt dismissive.

00:15:27
Speaker 4: And that it upset you. We all like we try to pretend like, oh, I didn't care, I didn't like him that much anyway, it didn't matter. That is not helpful.

00:15:35
Speaker 3: We're not acknowledging that it hurt you. And you have to acknowledge that it hurt you to heal.

00:15:40
Speaker 4: From it and to make sure it doesn't happen again. I thought that was such good.

00:15:44
Speaker 1: As Gerice right on a bunch of things. Not just this, but that's yes.

00:15:47
Speaker 3: This is applicable to so many things in life. I just thought this was some of the best advice I had seen. And then that second thing to do, what not to do do not blame yourself for their actions?

00:15:59
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

00:16:00
Speaker 4: If no this is what women do, I can speak for myself.

00:16:03
Speaker 3: If only I had said it this way, if only I had done this differently, if only I had whatever, you start thinking about how you could have kept him or not upset him, And that is so dangerous because now you're going to try and change what you want or feel or think to make someone else like you, which is so dangerous.

00:16:24
Speaker 4: We've all done it, we've all been there.

00:16:26
Speaker 3: But I just loved this advice. The what not to do was so much better almost than even what to do?

00:16:31
Speaker 1: What did I do that made him not want to reach out to me?

00:16:34
Speaker 4: Correct? Correct? And it just it just eats away at your self esteem. It eats away at valuing yourself.

00:16:43
Speaker 3: You start criticizing yourself for someone else's selfish actions.

00:16:48
Speaker 2: Wow, ghost lighting, yep, who knew? Who knew there was that there are? There was a different dating trend almost you you introduced at least once a month, sometimes just once a week that there's some new thing.

00:17:01
Speaker 1: I had not heard about this one.

00:17:03
Speaker 3: But you know what I think when you The reason why I love looking at all these dating trends is it helps all of us in any relationship. You just start understanding maybe and having a fun little phrase or a way to say it actually is something that there are lessons in some of these toxic dating trends that actually happen in a lot of relationships and platonic ones too. So anyway, everybody, make sure that you're not the ghost lighter or you're not getting ghost.

00:17:28
Speaker 2: Lit, ghost lighted, You're not the goes lighter and don't get ghost lit.

00:17:33
Speaker 1: That's what we're going.

00:17:34
Speaker 4: That's what I went with.

00:17:35
Speaker 1: You know, it always sounds like you it's gonna be lit up in here tonight.

00:17:39
Speaker 4: Don't get ghosts.

00:17:40
Speaker 3: Don't get ghost all right, everybody, And with that, thank you for listening to us.

00:17:44
Speaker 4: I'm made Robock alongside TJ. Holmes. We will talk to you soon