Sept. 24, 2026
American Idol Murder Trial: The Mistress Takes The Stand “I Believe He Murdered His Wife”
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RSS Feed 24-year-old Alleigha Botner is back on the stand today after three, dramatic hours on Wednesday afternoon. Botner is testifying against her former lover, Caleb Flynn, who now stands accused of killing his wife of 15 years to be with her. Botner testified about their year and a half long affair that began while she was an intern at the church they both attended, and read aloud dozens of hateful texts about wanting to kill his now deceased wife, Ashley while her family listened from the courtroom.
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00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, September 24th, and we have never heard anything like we heard yesterday in the American Idol murder trial. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes, officially, it was day five of the trial. I think the most critical day because you had the star witness for the prosecution. And Robes, I have never heard of any man expressing this much. How much evidence? He wants his wife dead.
00:00:33
Speaker 2: It was repeated. It was specific. And it was overwhelming. Yes, I agree. I have never seen a husband put into writing for a year and a half how much he wanted his wife dead. And now stands on trial saying... Wasn't me.
00:00:55
Speaker 1: He is actually still saying that. It was not me. Wasn't me, wasn't me, wasn't me. But the woman he was involved in an affair with, Robes, for how many, two years at least? A year and a half. A year and a half. They told us early on about some text messages. They told us early on, you're going to hear him say that he wanted his wife dead. They read one of them, right, in the opening statement?
00:01:15
Speaker 2: Yes, correct.
00:01:16
Speaker 1: Okay, but they told us there are 100,000 messages out there between these two. Robes, it feels like they're reading every damn one of them.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: It's overwhelming. And yes, and we should say, as we're recording this on Thursday, Aaliyah Botner, the ex-mistress of Caleb Flynn, is back on the stand reading more texts. To a point now, you and I both looked at each other about an hour into it, because she was on the stand for around three hours yesterday afternoon. We were like, we get it. Like, actually, this is almost overkill.
00:01:51
Speaker 1: You know, I'm almost wanting, just.
00:01:54
Speaker 2: Make it stop.
00:01:54
Speaker 1: Go make a plea deal right now. Y'all got me. Let's do this. Was the Alford plea? Can you still do an Alford plea? And say, yes, you got enough stuff to convict me, even though I won't admit that I did it. Robes, this is overwhelming stuff.
00:02:06
Speaker 2: Look, it's excruciating for us to hear... but they have taken a couple shots. They actually have multiple cameras in this courtroom. It's interesting. I've seen a couple shots of witnesses, but they'll also then show Caleb's face where he's mostly crying, although he hasn't cried that much with Aaliyah Botner on the stand, interestingly enough.
00:02:25
Speaker 1: Okay, forgive this statement. He at times looked like a killer.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:02:29
Speaker 1: Bro, his demeanor changed, his face changed, his anger was coming through almost like he was.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: It was frightening. But then they would show shots of Aaliyah's father and mother and sister. And that is when I just felt gutted. I'm going to have a hard time getting this out. Her father, wiping tears as he hears the woman who was having an affair with his former son-in-law describe his deceased, his dead daughter, as douche.
00:03:04
Speaker 1: It is.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: And to explain, that was the name, and there were several names actually, that Flynn wanted his lover to refer to his wife by because he said she didn't deserve to be called by her name. So they referred to her as douche, douchebag, whore, slut, spawn of Satan. And her family is sitting in that courtroom listening.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: The family that testified on the stand the previous day talking about how wonderful of a son-in-law he was, how he was welcome to the family and to the family business, how they never saw any signs, Robes, of anything like this. They're hearing a lot of this for the first time. Robes, these messages are flying around at the same time that the family was... He was going into work every day, seeing these people. He was involved in holidays and family events. Robes....
00:04:01
Speaker 2: For 17 years, babe.
00:04:04
Speaker 1: Robes, there is something different here. Because people have exes and you might not like them and all kinds of things. But it reaches a different level when you hear someone talk badly about their ex in such a way. Not just, the relationship wasn't good for me. Robes, he is describing a woman that I don't know how he ever had an ounce of respect for. He is talking about her in such a way that you find it very difficult even if you hate someone, even if you don't like someone, even if your marriage is bad. Robes, he is saying things that I just have not heard. It's not just because it's so much of it. Robes, the tone, the way he speaks about her, not just I want her dead, that's different. Robes, douche. And the family is sitting in here having to listen to some of the most degrading stuff could ever be said about their loved one from the guy himself. who was in their face every single day. Well, this is, he should. I wish he'd plead. It's repulsive. Stop this.
00:05:04
Speaker 2: And interestingly, Aaliyah Botner, who's up there on the stand, they asked how she felt about him today. This was probably one of the biggest moments in the trial so far. It may go down as the biggest moment. But she said, I hate him. And the prosecution said, why? Her answer, because I believe that he murdered his wife.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: How could you not? He told me every day, damn near for a year and a half.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: And listening to some of these exchanges, she joined in on it and like, is there anything I can do to help? And he would say, kill her. And she's basically saying, I wish, I mean, they were back and forth joking. She thought it seems about either hiring someone to kill his wife, her killing his wife. He was dreaming of all the ways he could kill his wife with outgoing to jail. It was unbelievable how often.
00:06:00
Speaker 1: This is where you would struggle, Robes, to have some sympathy for a young woman. Met him when she was 20. She was an intern at the time at the church. She was 22 when they finally started their affair, Robes. And there's some parts of that, well, he was the one in charge. She was the younger woman. She was taken advantage of. She thought she was in love. Okay, to some people, to some degree. She's still responsible for her actions. But, Robes, when you hear some of her chiming in and calling this woman a douche. I wish when he's talking about killing her, she, she was participating in Robes, not just a ha ha way in some of these messages.
00:06:38
Speaker 2: She was, she was affirming him, supporting him, agreeing with him, going along with him. So yeah, it's really repulsive to hear what she contributed to those awful conversations. Now that we know that, that Ashley Flynn ended up dead with two bullets in her head while she was sleeping with her daughters in the room next door. Yeah. It's tough to hear all of this. We also heard about their affair, how they mostly met at her apartment, how they had sex in his truck outside of Chipotle.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Of all things. Yeah. I don't know why, why that was a bizarre detail.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: Now when I walk by Chipotle, that's all I'm going to think about.
00:07:22
Speaker 1: They had sex in the Chipotle. This is a, A youth minister, a pastor, a man of faith. She was involved in the church. She's working at the church. At the church, and they're in the Chipotle of all places. Why does Chipotle stand out? I don't know what restaurant would have made it sound better.
00:07:38
Speaker 2: None of it would have sounded okay, but yes. That was happening, apparently, according to her. Also, how about their matching tattoos? They actually had her roll up her sleeve and show the jury, show the court her tattoo of a lightning bolt because they bonded initially over their love of Harry Potter and that he got a matching one. And then we found out where he put his matching tattoo.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: This is when she should have ended the relationship. I mean, she should have ended it. She never started it. Fine. It's under his frickin... It's in his armpit. Now, Rose, doesn't that go to.
00:08:23
Speaker 1: Like, how did he think he was going to pull that off? He's walking around the house, married, somebody else, kids in the house, has a tattoo that he got with another woman that's under his armpit. How does that make her feel? What's her name? Aaliyah.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: Aaliyah, yeah. They're matching tattoos. Hers is on her arm. His is in his armpit. That's bizarre. The other thing that really stood out that just made your stomach turn was to hear all the ultimatums she gave him. Like she would give him a date. You have to ask for a divorce by this date. Uh, you have to end things by this date. And she gave him multiple ones. He always said he was going to, and then never did. And so to hear now that she finally called it off with him, said they were done and, uh, It led to what we now know, we believe, according to prosecutors, the death of Ashley Flynn.
00:09:25
Speaker 1: You talked about that a lot yesterday, not on microphone. You talked about it just you and I. She has to feel like she's responsible for this woman's death.
00:09:33
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:09:34
Speaker 1: Because she broke it off with, I think, was it January 11th was the date they had. So this is about a month before.
00:09:40
Speaker 2: It was the final ultimatum.
00:09:42
Speaker 1: She gave him this ultimatum and she said, Ropes, she didn't contact him again, didn't talk to him again. He sent a couple messages. She didn't respond. So now he's desperate, baby. Now he's getting really, really desperate. So now you could see this form to where there's a new urgency. I am really going to lose. this woman now. She's not messing around. I really got to deliver this time.
00:10:06
Speaker 2: And she said, I'm going on a date in March. And so now he knows his timeline is now do something or lose her forever because she's this young, hot thing. And she's going to go realize that there are other men out there. So I got to do something now. And so to hear that she, that final blow to him was her telling him, I'm about to go on another date with another man.
00:10:31
Speaker 1: But for her, for Botner, she says, and I don't know, is that fair to say, baby? That she thought it meant divorce. Like he had a date on the calendar. He circled this is going to happen. He said it's big things happening tomorrow. Like he knew the date all this was going to go down. I guess, Robe, she should assume. He didn't say divorce. He just said this was all going to be taken care of. and she made an assumption, why wouldn't she assume he was gonna kill her?
00:10:56
Speaker 2: Well, because he told her the day before the murders that he was going to talk to his in-laws, he was going to his in-laws, he was gonna talk to his daughters, and then he was going to the church to ask someone for a job because he was working for his wife's family, and he was gonna book a room at a hotel. So he told her, here is what I am doing. And then he sent basically the text saying, actions will come tomorrow. I choose you. I will be free. And then we hear she starts sending him screenshots on how divorce proceedings go when you have proof of an affair. Does it affect custody? She was trying to show him that it didn't. So I do believe her because she was sending him all of these screenshots about how to delete messages from your phone.
00:11:40
Speaker 1: The chat GPT thing she was talking about. And they used a lot of those screenshots. It sounded like she got to work.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: She did.
00:11:47
Speaker 1: Like she was doing homework and trying to help as much as possible for him to get out of that marriage. And again, baby, we wondered why she wasn't facing any potential charges along the way. That is as close as it gets. But again, in her mind, like you said, she thought this meant divorce. But man, for the past year and a half, it meant death, according to those tax estimates.
00:12:12
Speaker 2: Oh, after now, obviously, she said the moment she heard the news that Ashley Flynn had been killed. She said she knew it couldn't have just been a coincidence the very day that he's telling her he's going to divorce her and he's going to tell everyone in the family and that he was going to be free. She's murdered. That's when she felt sick to her stomach.
00:12:35
Speaker 1: Does that qualify, babe, as circumstantial evidence enough to convict? I know there's plenty of other stuff, but that is how unlikely is it that the day you tell your other woman that he's going to be free and clear, Just happens to be the same day that somebody broke in and shot the woman.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: After a year and a half of you saying, I want to kill her, I'm thinking of ways to kill her, if I could kill her and not go to jail, I would. Yes, for me as a juror, that would be enough.
00:13:05
Speaker 1: There is no reasonable doubt you can have based on that fact alone, babe.
00:13:10
Speaker 2: No, exactly. And when we come back, well, if the damning texts weren't enough, there were videos and voice messages that the court, the jury, and yes, we all got to hear. We'll have that when we come back. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. It was a tremendous day. Day in court on Wednesday. It continues today as well with the ex-mistress of Caleb Flynn on the stand. Her name is Aaliyah Botner.
00:13:46
Speaker 1: Would you spell that for everybody?
00:13:47
Speaker 2: 24 years old.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: I just thought it was.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, A-L-L-E-I-G-H-A. Aaliyah Botner.
00:13:53
Speaker 1: Aaliyah, I've seen it spelled that way before.
00:13:56
Speaker 2: I have not either. But she has been going through and reading text after text things like, I hate her and I know it hurts you. Kill douche. Douche, of course, being the name that they used to describe his wife, Ashley. You know I hate douche and I want nothing to do with her. I hate her. I hate douche more than anything. Is there anything I can do? Kill her. Talks about hiring someone to kill her. I mean, it's just nonstop. One text after the other, and they're still at it today. But we also saw some videos. These were bizarre and almost like it felt like manic. He would be home alone and sending her a video saying, home alone with the dogs, and he just would yell out loud in his home on a video, I love Aaliyah Botner, and then send it to her. So we had that played in court.
00:14:49
Speaker 1: He was trying to prove to her that he was home alone and wasn't hanging with his family. And that dog, what kind of dog was that? Some kind of doodle.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: Some kind of doodle. Looked like two golden doodles. They were adorable. But yeah, he was engaged with them. And then another one that they did show, he sent this to her as well. His daughters were actually there. And he called out to his daughters to brush their teeth and put on their pajamas. The girls chime in, okay. In the background, and I will tell you, this is the only time yesterday I saw him break emotionally. He started to cry because they panned to his face. And hearing those little girls' voices, his lips started to shake. So there is a human being inside there at some point. That was actually of significance. But then this bizarre voicemail. So he goes on this cruise for his 15th wedding anniversary with his wife, Ashley. And she's upset about it. because he keeps saying, I'm gonna divorce her, I'm gonna divorce her, and then he goes on this anniversary cruise with her, and this is the cruise that we found out Ashley saw the text messages.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: I didn't know this before.
00:15:54
Speaker 2: I did not either. And so we have Aaliyah on the stand reporting that, yes, Ashley texted her and said, I'm reading all these text messages, I'm so confused, I need to speak with you, I need to see you. And I want to meet with you. And she refused. She just kept saying she was busy.
00:16:11
Speaker 1: But didn't she say they had something set up or were supposed to meet at a coffee shop or something, right?
00:16:15
Speaker 2: And then she never.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: Set it up.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: Said she couldn't look at her in the face knowing what she was doing. But then you get this voicemail that they play in the court that he sends to Aaliyah where he's just saying, I love you. I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have come on the cruise. I love you very, very, very much. All I want is you. It went on and on. You're like, dude. stop. It was, he was crying. I'm crying in front of everyone on these, on this cruise. It was so manipulative and so poor me. And he's on this cruise with his wife and he's actually like crying, feeling sorry for himself, telling her how much he screwed up and how much he missed her and how much he shouldn't have been on the cruise.
00:16:58
Speaker 1: And under different circumstance, you would go, this idiot, that's so dirty and low down. Dude, come on. And there would be a divorce proceeding and everybody move on. Robes, this is, to hear it after now what he's accused of, to hear, Robes, this is as damning as it gets. I can't find reasonable doubt. I know innocent until proven guilty, but they are, if you're on that jury, you would, Robes, if they have proven his guilt, I haven't, Robes, one thing, give me one question you've heard in a cross-examination, any point being made that made you go, hmm, I'm curious about that.
00:17:35
Speaker 2: Not, Not one, baby. And look, this testimony that's going on right now with his ex-mistress is just the final nail in the coffin. I have a line that she said yesterday that she testified to. Tell me just this line, these sentences alone should do him in. It seemed like when this is about describing all of the statements that Caleb started making about wanting his wife dead, she said those statements began in August of 2025. So they started having their sexual affair in May of 2024. So about, I guess, a year and a few months later, he starts saying he wants her dead. This is how she put it. It seemed like when he would say it, it just got worse the way he would say it. At first, it was, I want her dead. I wish she was gone. And then it was, if I could kill her and not go to jail, I would. And then one that he was really up late thinking about, he told me he was thinking about all the ways to kill her. Boom.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: And she continues in a relationship, which is confusing. And maybe that is a question a defense attorney might need to ask. Absolutely.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Because I even said this, look... Obviously, she's going to live with this for the rest of her life. But it wasn't like she didn't know. It wasn't like he didn't tell her. And it wasn't like she didn't chime in on all of it. But I've always been told the way the person you're with, the person you're dating, speaks of their ex should absolutely tell you what you need to know about their character. If they are constantly slamming, berating, blaming, playing the victim... That is a huge red flag. I'm just talking about anger management or inability to take responsibility. Go to the other level of now threatening murder and beyond just threatening, getting specific about it. How that was not a red flag is beyond me. I know she was young, but it doesn't take wisdom to know. Yeah, I guess they say love is blind, right? but also deaf and dumb, apparently, in this as well, because it's hard to imagine that you'd feel comfortable dating somebody like that.
00:19:47
Speaker 1: Is there no obligation? Right? if you hear this guy repeatedly say he wants to kill her? Unless there's a plan, I guess. You can't report it. You shouldn't report it. I don't know, baby. But I've never heard anything like this.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: I haven't either.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: We are talking literally hundreds of instances in which he expressed via text a desire for his wife to be dead, a desire to kill her himself. Just doesn't want to go to jail and doesn't want to go to hell. Those were his two things. The only thing's holding him back. Fudge, man.
00:20:16
Speaker 2: And eventually he let those things go as well if he did what prosecutors say he did. It's hard to imagine he didn't with everything we heard in court. We'll continue to watch all of the developments of this remarkable trial in Ohio. But in the meantime, thank you all for listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon.
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, September 24th, and we have never heard anything like we heard yesterday in the American Idol murder trial. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Robes, officially, it was day five of the trial. I think the most critical day because you had the star witness for the prosecution. And Robes, I have never heard of any man expressing this much. How much evidence? He wants his wife dead.
00:00:33
Speaker 2: It was repeated. It was specific. And it was overwhelming. Yes, I agree. I have never seen a husband put into writing for a year and a half how much he wanted his wife dead. And now stands on trial saying... Wasn't me.
00:00:55
Speaker 1: He is actually still saying that. It was not me. Wasn't me, wasn't me, wasn't me. But the woman he was involved in an affair with, Robes, for how many, two years at least? A year and a half. A year and a half. They told us early on about some text messages. They told us early on, you're going to hear him say that he wanted his wife dead. They read one of them, right, in the opening statement?
00:01:15
Speaker 2: Yes, correct.
00:01:16
Speaker 1: Okay, but they told us there are 100,000 messages out there between these two. Robes, it feels like they're reading every damn one of them.
00:01:23
Speaker 2: It's overwhelming. And yes, and we should say, as we're recording this on Thursday, Aaliyah Botner, the ex-mistress of Caleb Flynn, is back on the stand reading more texts. To a point now, you and I both looked at each other about an hour into it, because she was on the stand for around three hours yesterday afternoon. We were like, we get it. Like, actually, this is almost overkill.
00:01:51
Speaker 1: You know, I'm almost wanting, just.
00:01:54
Speaker 2: Make it stop.
00:01:54
Speaker 1: Go make a plea deal right now. Y'all got me. Let's do this. Was the Alford plea? Can you still do an Alford plea? And say, yes, you got enough stuff to convict me, even though I won't admit that I did it. Robes, this is overwhelming stuff.
00:02:06
Speaker 2: Look, it's excruciating for us to hear... but they have taken a couple shots. They actually have multiple cameras in this courtroom. It's interesting. I've seen a couple shots of witnesses, but they'll also then show Caleb's face where he's mostly crying, although he hasn't cried that much with Aaliyah Botner on the stand, interestingly enough.
00:02:25
Speaker 1: Okay, forgive this statement. He at times looked like a killer.
00:02:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:02:29
Speaker 1: Bro, his demeanor changed, his face changed, his anger was coming through almost like he was.
00:02:36
Speaker 2: It was frightening. But then they would show shots of Aaliyah's father and mother and sister. And that is when I just felt gutted. I'm going to have a hard time getting this out. Her father, wiping tears as he hears the woman who was having an affair with his former son-in-law describe his deceased, his dead daughter, as douche.
00:03:04
Speaker 1: It is.
00:03:07
Speaker 2: And to explain, that was the name, and there were several names actually, that Flynn wanted his lover to refer to his wife by because he said she didn't deserve to be called by her name. So they referred to her as douche, douchebag, whore, slut, spawn of Satan. And her family is sitting in that courtroom listening.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: The family that testified on the stand the previous day talking about how wonderful of a son-in-law he was, how he was welcome to the family and to the family business, how they never saw any signs, Robes, of anything like this. They're hearing a lot of this for the first time. Robes, these messages are flying around at the same time that the family was... He was going into work every day, seeing these people. He was involved in holidays and family events. Robes....
00:04:01
Speaker 2: For 17 years, babe.
00:04:04
Speaker 1: Robes, there is something different here. Because people have exes and you might not like them and all kinds of things. But it reaches a different level when you hear someone talk badly about their ex in such a way. Not just, the relationship wasn't good for me. Robes, he is describing a woman that I don't know how he ever had an ounce of respect for. He is talking about her in such a way that you find it very difficult even if you hate someone, even if you don't like someone, even if your marriage is bad. Robes, he is saying things that I just have not heard. It's not just because it's so much of it. Robes, the tone, the way he speaks about her, not just I want her dead, that's different. Robes, douche. And the family is sitting in here having to listen to some of the most degrading stuff could ever be said about their loved one from the guy himself. who was in their face every single day. Well, this is, he should. I wish he'd plead. It's repulsive. Stop this.
00:05:04
Speaker 2: And interestingly, Aaliyah Botner, who's up there on the stand, they asked how she felt about him today. This was probably one of the biggest moments in the trial so far. It may go down as the biggest moment. But she said, I hate him. And the prosecution said, why? Her answer, because I believe that he murdered his wife.
00:05:25
Speaker 1: How could you not? He told me every day, damn near for a year and a half.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: And listening to some of these exchanges, she joined in on it and like, is there anything I can do to help? And he would say, kill her. And she's basically saying, I wish, I mean, they were back and forth joking. She thought it seems about either hiring someone to kill his wife, her killing his wife. He was dreaming of all the ways he could kill his wife with outgoing to jail. It was unbelievable how often.
00:06:00
Speaker 1: This is where you would struggle, Robes, to have some sympathy for a young woman. Met him when she was 20. She was an intern at the time at the church. She was 22 when they finally started their affair, Robes. And there's some parts of that, well, he was the one in charge. She was the younger woman. She was taken advantage of. She thought she was in love. Okay, to some people, to some degree. She's still responsible for her actions. But, Robes, when you hear some of her chiming in and calling this woman a douche. I wish when he's talking about killing her, she, she was participating in Robes, not just a ha ha way in some of these messages.
00:06:38
Speaker 2: She was, she was affirming him, supporting him, agreeing with him, going along with him. So yeah, it's really repulsive to hear what she contributed to those awful conversations. Now that we know that, that Ashley Flynn ended up dead with two bullets in her head while she was sleeping with her daughters in the room next door. Yeah. It's tough to hear all of this. We also heard about their affair, how they mostly met at her apartment, how they had sex in his truck outside of Chipotle.
00:07:13
Speaker 1: Of all things. Yeah. I don't know why, why that was a bizarre detail.
00:07:19
Speaker 2: Now when I walk by Chipotle, that's all I'm going to think about.
00:07:22
Speaker 1: They had sex in the Chipotle. This is a, A youth minister, a pastor, a man of faith. She was involved in the church. She's working at the church. At the church, and they're in the Chipotle of all places. Why does Chipotle stand out? I don't know what restaurant would have made it sound better.
00:07:38
Speaker 2: None of it would have sounded okay, but yes. That was happening, apparently, according to her. Also, how about their matching tattoos? They actually had her roll up her sleeve and show the jury, show the court her tattoo of a lightning bolt because they bonded initially over their love of Harry Potter and that he got a matching one. And then we found out where he put his matching tattoo.
00:08:11
Speaker 1: This is when she should have ended the relationship. I mean, she should have ended it. She never started it. Fine. It's under his frickin... It's in his armpit. Now, Rose, doesn't that go to.
00:08:23
Speaker 1: Like, how did he think he was going to pull that off? He's walking around the house, married, somebody else, kids in the house, has a tattoo that he got with another woman that's under his armpit. How does that make her feel? What's her name? Aaliyah.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: Aaliyah, yeah. They're matching tattoos. Hers is on her arm. His is in his armpit. That's bizarre. The other thing that really stood out that just made your stomach turn was to hear all the ultimatums she gave him. Like she would give him a date. You have to ask for a divorce by this date. Uh, you have to end things by this date. And she gave him multiple ones. He always said he was going to, and then never did. And so to hear now that she finally called it off with him, said they were done and, uh, It led to what we now know, we believe, according to prosecutors, the death of Ashley Flynn.
00:09:25
Speaker 1: You talked about that a lot yesterday, not on microphone. You talked about it just you and I. She has to feel like she's responsible for this woman's death.
00:09:33
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
00:09:34
Speaker 1: Because she broke it off with, I think, was it January 11th was the date they had. So this is about a month before.
00:09:40
Speaker 2: It was the final ultimatum.
00:09:42
Speaker 1: She gave him this ultimatum and she said, Ropes, she didn't contact him again, didn't talk to him again. He sent a couple messages. She didn't respond. So now he's desperate, baby. Now he's getting really, really desperate. So now you could see this form to where there's a new urgency. I am really going to lose. this woman now. She's not messing around. I really got to deliver this time.
00:10:06
Speaker 2: And she said, I'm going on a date in March. And so now he knows his timeline is now do something or lose her forever because she's this young, hot thing. And she's going to go realize that there are other men out there. So I got to do something now. And so to hear that she, that final blow to him was her telling him, I'm about to go on another date with another man.
00:10:31
Speaker 1: But for her, for Botner, she says, and I don't know, is that fair to say, baby? That she thought it meant divorce. Like he had a date on the calendar. He circled this is going to happen. He said it's big things happening tomorrow. Like he knew the date all this was going to go down. I guess, Robe, she should assume. He didn't say divorce. He just said this was all going to be taken care of. and she made an assumption, why wouldn't she assume he was gonna kill her?
00:10:56
Speaker 2: Well, because he told her the day before the murders that he was going to talk to his in-laws, he was going to his in-laws, he was gonna talk to his daughters, and then he was going to the church to ask someone for a job because he was working for his wife's family, and he was gonna book a room at a hotel. So he told her, here is what I am doing. And then he sent basically the text saying, actions will come tomorrow. I choose you. I will be free. And then we hear she starts sending him screenshots on how divorce proceedings go when you have proof of an affair. Does it affect custody? She was trying to show him that it didn't. So I do believe her because she was sending him all of these screenshots about how to delete messages from your phone.
00:11:40
Speaker 1: The chat GPT thing she was talking about. And they used a lot of those screenshots. It sounded like she got to work.
00:11:47
Speaker 2: She did.
00:11:47
Speaker 1: Like she was doing homework and trying to help as much as possible for him to get out of that marriage. And again, baby, we wondered why she wasn't facing any potential charges along the way. That is as close as it gets. But again, in her mind, like you said, she thought this meant divorce. But man, for the past year and a half, it meant death, according to those tax estimates.
00:12:12
Speaker 2: Oh, after now, obviously, she said the moment she heard the news that Ashley Flynn had been killed. She said she knew it couldn't have just been a coincidence the very day that he's telling her he's going to divorce her and he's going to tell everyone in the family and that he was going to be free. She's murdered. That's when she felt sick to her stomach.
00:12:35
Speaker 1: Does that qualify, babe, as circumstantial evidence enough to convict? I know there's plenty of other stuff, but that is how unlikely is it that the day you tell your other woman that he's going to be free and clear, Just happens to be the same day that somebody broke in and shot the woman.
00:12:55
Speaker 2: After a year and a half of you saying, I want to kill her, I'm thinking of ways to kill her, if I could kill her and not go to jail, I would. Yes, for me as a juror, that would be enough.
00:13:05
Speaker 1: There is no reasonable doubt you can have based on that fact alone, babe.
00:13:10
Speaker 2: No, exactly. And when we come back, well, if the damning texts weren't enough, there were videos and voice messages that the court, the jury, and yes, we all got to hear. We'll have that when we come back. Welcome back, everyone, to Amy and TJ. It was a tremendous day. Day in court on Wednesday. It continues today as well with the ex-mistress of Caleb Flynn on the stand. Her name is Aaliyah Botner.
00:13:46
Speaker 1: Would you spell that for everybody?
00:13:47
Speaker 2: 24 years old.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: I just thought it was.
00:13:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, A-L-L-E-I-G-H-A. Aaliyah Botner.
00:13:53
Speaker 1: Aaliyah, I've seen it spelled that way before.
00:13:56
Speaker 2: I have not either. But she has been going through and reading text after text things like, I hate her and I know it hurts you. Kill douche. Douche, of course, being the name that they used to describe his wife, Ashley. You know I hate douche and I want nothing to do with her. I hate her. I hate douche more than anything. Is there anything I can do? Kill her. Talks about hiring someone to kill her. I mean, it's just nonstop. One text after the other, and they're still at it today. But we also saw some videos. These were bizarre and almost like it felt like manic. He would be home alone and sending her a video saying, home alone with the dogs, and he just would yell out loud in his home on a video, I love Aaliyah Botner, and then send it to her. So we had that played in court.
00:14:49
Speaker 1: He was trying to prove to her that he was home alone and wasn't hanging with his family. And that dog, what kind of dog was that? Some kind of doodle.
00:14:56
Speaker 2: Some kind of doodle. Looked like two golden doodles. They were adorable. But yeah, he was engaged with them. And then another one that they did show, he sent this to her as well. His daughters were actually there. And he called out to his daughters to brush their teeth and put on their pajamas. The girls chime in, okay. In the background, and I will tell you, this is the only time yesterday I saw him break emotionally. He started to cry because they panned to his face. And hearing those little girls' voices, his lips started to shake. So there is a human being inside there at some point. That was actually of significance. But then this bizarre voicemail. So he goes on this cruise for his 15th wedding anniversary with his wife, Ashley. And she's upset about it. because he keeps saying, I'm gonna divorce her, I'm gonna divorce her, and then he goes on this anniversary cruise with her, and this is the cruise that we found out Ashley saw the text messages.
00:15:52
Speaker 1: I didn't know this before.
00:15:54
Speaker 2: I did not either. And so we have Aaliyah on the stand reporting that, yes, Ashley texted her and said, I'm reading all these text messages, I'm so confused, I need to speak with you, I need to see you. And I want to meet with you. And she refused. She just kept saying she was busy.
00:16:11
Speaker 1: But didn't she say they had something set up or were supposed to meet at a coffee shop or something, right?
00:16:15
Speaker 2: And then she never.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: Set it up.
00:16:16
Speaker 2: Said she couldn't look at her in the face knowing what she was doing. But then you get this voicemail that they play in the court that he sends to Aaliyah where he's just saying, I love you. I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have come on the cruise. I love you very, very, very much. All I want is you. It went on and on. You're like, dude. stop. It was, he was crying. I'm crying in front of everyone on these, on this cruise. It was so manipulative and so poor me. And he's on this cruise with his wife and he's actually like crying, feeling sorry for himself, telling her how much he screwed up and how much he missed her and how much he shouldn't have been on the cruise.
00:16:58
Speaker 1: And under different circumstance, you would go, this idiot, that's so dirty and low down. Dude, come on. And there would be a divorce proceeding and everybody move on. Robes, this is, to hear it after now what he's accused of, to hear, Robes, this is as damning as it gets. I can't find reasonable doubt. I know innocent until proven guilty, but they are, if you're on that jury, you would, Robes, if they have proven his guilt, I haven't, Robes, one thing, give me one question you've heard in a cross-examination, any point being made that made you go, hmm, I'm curious about that.
00:17:35
Speaker 2: Not, Not one, baby. And look, this testimony that's going on right now with his ex-mistress is just the final nail in the coffin. I have a line that she said yesterday that she testified to. Tell me just this line, these sentences alone should do him in. It seemed like when this is about describing all of the statements that Caleb started making about wanting his wife dead, she said those statements began in August of 2025. So they started having their sexual affair in May of 2024. So about, I guess, a year and a few months later, he starts saying he wants her dead. This is how she put it. It seemed like when he would say it, it just got worse the way he would say it. At first, it was, I want her dead. I wish she was gone. And then it was, if I could kill her and not go to jail, I would. And then one that he was really up late thinking about, he told me he was thinking about all the ways to kill her. Boom.
00:18:36
Speaker 1: And she continues in a relationship, which is confusing. And maybe that is a question a defense attorney might need to ask. Absolutely.
00:18:43
Speaker 2: Because I even said this, look... Obviously, she's going to live with this for the rest of her life. But it wasn't like she didn't know. It wasn't like he didn't tell her. And it wasn't like she didn't chime in on all of it. But I've always been told the way the person you're with, the person you're dating, speaks of their ex should absolutely tell you what you need to know about their character. If they are constantly slamming, berating, blaming, playing the victim... That is a huge red flag. I'm just talking about anger management or inability to take responsibility. Go to the other level of now threatening murder and beyond just threatening, getting specific about it. How that was not a red flag is beyond me. I know she was young, but it doesn't take wisdom to know. Yeah, I guess they say love is blind, right? but also deaf and dumb, apparently, in this as well, because it's hard to imagine that you'd feel comfortable dating somebody like that.
00:19:47
Speaker 1: Is there no obligation? Right? if you hear this guy repeatedly say he wants to kill her? Unless there's a plan, I guess. You can't report it. You shouldn't report it. I don't know, baby. But I've never heard anything like this.
00:19:58
Speaker 2: I haven't either.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: We are talking literally hundreds of instances in which he expressed via text a desire for his wife to be dead, a desire to kill her himself. Just doesn't want to go to jail and doesn't want to go to hell. Those were his two things. The only thing's holding him back. Fudge, man.
00:20:16
Speaker 2: And eventually he let those things go as well if he did what prosecutors say he did. It's hard to imagine he didn't with everything we heard in court. We'll continue to watch all of the developments of this remarkable trial in Ohio. But in the meantime, thank you all for listening to us. I'm Amy Robach alongside TJ Holmes. We'll talk soon.