Alabama Executing Inmate Convicted Of A 1998 Double Murder, Who A Jury Voted to Spare

00:00:02
Speaker 1: Hey there, folks. It is Thursday, September 17th, and the state of Alabama is set to execute a man tonight who is objecting not to being executed, but he objects to the manner in which he's about to be executed tonight. And with that, welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. None of these things are by the books necessarily. Every single one of these death row cases we cover is unique. This is no exception. This is a fascinating case of a guy who had his death day postponed. Here we are. He preferred to be shot and he killed Elvis.

00:00:40
Speaker 2: Please explain. Well, yeah, there needs to be an explanation on that little bombshell you just dropped. Yes. So this would be Alabama's second execution of the year by lethal injection. We're talking about 49-year-old Jeffrey Lee. He was convicted of a 1998 double murder that we will get into that, frankly, we've already discussed previously. in a previous episode months ago because Jeffrey Lee was supposed to be executed in June by nitrogen gas. He managed to get a save execution because of the manner of execution, but here we are today, Jeffrey Lee about to be executed by lethal injection at 6 p.m. Eastern time in the state of Alabama.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: Okay. Lethal injection, babe.

00:01:27
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:01:28
Speaker 1: It's not his preferred method.

00:01:29
Speaker 2: It is not.

00:01:30
Speaker 1: Now, how I had to do a little more research, this is really a fascinating case. Every single one of these inmates, 95%, argue something. They want to stay alive.

00:01:44
Speaker 2: There's a technicality of some sort.

00:01:46
Speaker 1: But they're always fighting.

00:01:48
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:01:48
Speaker 1: Stay alive.

00:01:49
Speaker 2: Isn't it amazing?

00:01:50
Speaker 1: This guy technically isn't fighting to stay alive. He's fighting for how he's going to die. He doesn't want lethal injection. Shoot me instead. He keeps picking things that aren't options.

00:02:04
Speaker 2: And the reason why he's picking things that aren't options is because he wants to... Stay alive.

00:02:10
Speaker 1: Oh, come on. You think that's what it is? You don't think this is sincere?

00:02:12
Speaker 2: We all know that's what it is. It's so interesting. We've talked about this before. No matter what your conditions are, no matter how it might seem to be like an awful state of existence, it still is a human experience mostly, obviously there are exceptions, where people will do anything. There's a survival instinct. What can I do to live another day? And we see this happen over and over again with death row inmates.

00:02:39
Speaker 1: Yes.

00:02:39
Speaker 2: And certainly, Jeffrey Lee is no exception because he has gotten, what, at least three extra months than he was expected to get initially when his death warrant was first signed because he did not want to die by nitrogen gas.

00:02:57
Speaker 1: I am, you know what, it was the method. That's what it was. Okay, he was scheduled to die. I think it was June 11th. He had a previous execution day. Now, I'm not counting, remember, Robes, you can help me if you can here, how close he got to that death hour before a court stepped in, and it wasn't necessarily on the merits of his case. This is not a situation where anybody's questioning new evidence or if there's another killer out there. This was stopped, Robes, because of questions about nitrogen gas, which nitrogen gas has been used in Alabama. They're essentially the pioneers on nitrogen gas. Give you a Quick explainer here. It replaces oxygen with another gas. So it essentially suffocates you while still giving you something to breathe. It's horrific is how it was explained, but there were so many robes or previous nitrogen gas executions. That there were some questions about. People say one of them took like 15 minutes, excruciating pain.

00:04:01
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:04:02
Speaker 1: So they made the argument, no, don't want to be killed that way. And they took away that option for Alabama to kill him. That was in June.

00:04:09
Speaker 2: They did, and it was up until hours before. They had cleared the state to proceed, and then they stepped in. The U.S. Supreme Court upheld a lower court's ruling that blocked the use of nitrogen gas. It stopped the execution.

00:04:24
Speaker 1: It was hours, really?

00:04:25
Speaker 2: Just hours. Oh, wow. before it was set to begin. So he narrowly escaped, we should say, execution back in June, June 11th of this year. And so now it doesn't seem like there is anything now in the final few hours as we record this that would stop this execution. The only other, and this is, I shouldn't say only, this is a significant change part of the story of Jeffrey Lee, the jury that originally convicted him, and we'll get into the crime itself very shortly, but the jury that convicted him originally of this crime voted overwhelmingly, and I say that more than the majority, at least there was a significant majority, seven to five, voted that he should be given life in prison. They voted well into the majority that he should not be put to death. This is one of those rare, but we have seen them, exceptions to the current law that states, yes, a jury has to, and we would all, I think, get behind this, unanimously agree to agree to the death penalty before someone is actually executed. This is one of those cases where the jury actually agreed that he should not have been sentenced to death.

00:05:43
Speaker 1: That's a lot of votes for life.

00:05:45
Speaker 2: Seven to five.

00:05:46
Speaker 1: Seven to five. But a judge stepped in, completely overrode their ruling, and sentenced him to death. Now, the law in Alabama did allow this at the time. Robes, I keep saying 2017 for whatever reason. I think that's the year it changed.

00:06:02
Speaker 2: It did.

00:06:03
Speaker 1: But that can't happen anymore. But when they changed the law, Robes, they didn't go back and do it retroactively. They just said everything moving forward. So that is why this guy is going to die tonight, even though seven... out of 12 members of his jury said he should live.

00:06:19
Speaker 2: Look, I have to be honest. Look, and we've made it very clear we're not pro-death penalty. But even still, I understand a need for states and for state governors to provide closure for families who have an expectation that a sentence that was enacted by a jury of their peers be followed through with. So I understand that and I respect that. And yet, this to me flies in the face of all of what we just said. If you have a conviction back in 2000, and yes, I understand it's 17 years before this law was put into place, I still don't understand why that same law wouldn't be applicable to everyone. If it's right now, why is it not right for back then? There's nothing that changed societally or intrinsically about any of these cases. that whatever that law determined was fairer, why shouldn't that law be applied to everyone? I have an issue with that. I do. Just fundamentally, I have an.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: Issue with that. I'm with you 100%. Here's the thing that just sitting here listening to you made me think of it even, made it clearer to me. What if they had voted seven to five not guilty?

00:07:33
Speaker 2: Exactly.

00:07:34
Speaker 1: And the judge stepped in and said, you know what? He's guilty. That's the same mindset. Obviously, that's ridiculous and it shouldn't work that way. But they changed the law because they obviously thought it was wrong.

00:07:44
Speaker 2: Correct. It is wrong for a judge, one person, and I am not taking away the expertise and the perspective that a judge offers to a case. But I still would, and I think every American listening to this would agree, especially if it was them or a loved one that was being sentenced, would argue that it's much fairer to have 12 people decide your fate versus one person. And for that one person to maybe oversee the case, provide guidance, we're all okay with that. But for a judge to overrule a jury... Splitting a tie might be one thing. I'd be open to that.

00:08:24
Speaker 1: Deciding vote, okay.

00:08:24
Speaker 2: He is not splitting a tie. He overruled a jury who overwhelmingly said that this man, and we'll get into the crime, as heinous as it was, didn't deserve to die for his crime. I feel like that should be respected.

00:08:39
Speaker 1: I know better than you all.

00:08:41
Speaker 2: That's... And we have decided that that's not okay, but up until, and not before... 2017. Like, that's the thing. Like, to only apply it to certain cases, modern cases, so to speak. I don't understand the logic behind that.

00:08:56
Speaker 1: They have a count. I believe it's 25, but it's certainly around two dozen at least that are on death row that this law could help out.

00:09:06
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:09:06
Speaker 1: But it didn't hit them retroactively.

00:09:08
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:09:08
Speaker 1: They are sitting there right now, Rose.

00:09:10
Speaker 2: I have an issue with that.

00:09:11
Speaker 1: And would come off death row if this law was applied retroactively. That's a hell of a cause. That's... Look, okay.

00:09:22
Speaker 2: So we've said all of this before we've even talked about what the crime was.

00:09:26
Speaker 1: Okay, let me ask you one more thing before we get into the crime. Do you think maybe doing it retroactively would be unfair to those families who have already been told death is the punishment?

00:09:37
Speaker 2: You know what, and that would be the one caveat that I would actually listen to, but I still feel like I still feel like you should err on the side of fairness when it comes to the person who is now suffering or facing the biggest consequence.

00:09:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, you made it. That's a good point, baby.

00:09:57
Speaker 2: I still feel like if you're going to err, I would rather err on the side of fairness. side of you're not taking away what the jury said. You're actually acknowledging and, I think, honoring what the jury said.

00:10:08
Speaker 1: I think that's right.

00:10:08
Speaker 2: And I think that is the right thing to do in our justice system. That's just my personal opinion.

00:10:13
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's right. You made what you just said make sense.

00:10:16
Speaker 2: But I think it's fair before we go to break to... At least explain the crime.

00:10:20
Speaker 1: Oh, no, please.

00:10:20
Speaker 2: Because this is important.

00:10:21
Speaker 1: I just had that extra question.

00:10:22
Speaker 2: We're not acting as if this poor man is now being so unfairly treated. No, we're talking about 49-year-old Jeffrey Lee, who chose on December 12, 1998, to walk into a pawn shop near Selma. And this is a town called Oroville, Alabama. And he went in to say he was looking for wedding rings. He then said, I'm going to go back, get some money for my grandma, I believe, and I'm going to come back and I'm going to get these wedding rings. Literally putting these folks at ease. Oh, this guy is getting wedding bands. Obviously, he's in love. Nothing to fear here. No, he comes back with a sawed-off shotgun and shoots a man and the owner of this pawn shop named Jimmy Ellis, an employee named Elaine Pagani.

00:11:07
Speaker 1: Thompson who was his ex-wife actually and that's so cool.

00:11:10
Speaker 2: That they still work side by side you got to give him credit for that and another employee who survived by playing dead and she is key to this.

00:11:18
Speaker 1: Story yeah because she was the one that was able to call and ask for help she was able to call and say this is what happened this is who this guy is this is what she was the one that was able to give all these details ropes this is a horrific that we are talking about a What could have been a triple murder or certainly what he intended to be.

00:11:38
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

00:11:39
Speaker 1: A triple murder. This is heinous stuff. And I mentioned the Elvis thing. This guy was a world-renowned Elvis impersonator in his day. Jimmy Ellis is his name. And he had this pawn shop, Jimmy's Pawn Shop. But he was a big-time, like big-time Elvis impersonator. And when you see, you saw his pictures?

00:11:56
Speaker 2: I did. And I know, like, by the way, please explain to anyone listening your... Connection to Elvis. Oh, yeah. Because you, first of all, yes, he's from Memphis, everyone. But it goes beyond that.

00:12:09
Speaker 1: My mom's due date. Every woman gets it. How early do women get due dates?

00:12:13
Speaker 2: I mean, pretty early on. Like, I remember, it's so funny. You said the 16th because we'll get into this. Annalisa's due date was May 16th. I had her on May 10th. But you always remember your due date. Ava's due date was December 30th. I had her on December 29th. You always remember your due date.

00:12:30
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure how early my mom got the due date, but the due date for little T. Junior was August 16th, 1977. I was not born that day. I was actually born three days later, so my birthday is August 19th. 1977.

00:12:49
Speaker 2: Wow, you were late for the first and only time of your life.

00:12:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, got it out the way early. But August 16th, the due date, happened to be the day that Elvis Presley died. And I was born and raised in West Memphis. So this is just, my mom was a big Elvis fan. He's always been just, plays a part of my life. You ever want to know what anniversary it is of Elvis's death? It's my age. It's my age. Next year will be the 50th anniversary of his death. So, Anytime I see an Elvis impersonator, we were talking about Bosley.

00:13:20
Speaker 2: An Elvis story. You feel connected.

00:13:22
Speaker 1: We talked about like a serious conversation about getting married at a Vegas wedding chapel. Yes. And having Elvis.

00:13:29
Speaker 2: Elvis officiate. Yes.

00:13:31
Speaker 1: It was a serious conversation.

00:13:32
Speaker 2: No. And we have thought about it actually more than we should have. That's fair. Yes.

00:13:38
Speaker 1: But yes. So anytime. So yes, that was some. And to see his picture and kind of the headshot type of thing. And it was black and white. It just looked cool, and it just, I don't know. There are some little details sometimes about these stories that make them even sadder than they are on the surface. So stay here, though, folks. We will explain when we come back. Jeffrey Lee's court challenge. How he ended up on death row in June. Got that one canceled and ends up now on death row tonight with another death date, Robes. But this goes back years and years back. Stay here.

00:14:16
Speaker 3: All right, we continue here on Amy and TJ.

00:14:28
Speaker 1: An execution scheduled for tonight. We had two scheduled for yesterday in the U.S. Robes. Only one went through. One person got a stay of execution in Georgia. One execution went through in Texas, and we have another one here tonight in Alabama. So the one tonight, Rose, we weren't sure was ever going to go through because Jeffrey Lee, years ago, when he was sentenced to death, he got the option to choose how he wanted to die. He didn't want lethal injection. He chose nitrogen gas. And he actually got caught up in a lawsuit with the state over how he wanted to die. So ultimately the decision was made. Okay, you get to die by nitrogen gas. We'll stop trying to push for lethal injection. Fine. But then, Roms, we move forward. And now there's a problem with nitrogen gas, which is what he picked.

00:15:22
Speaker 2: Correct.

00:15:23
Speaker 1: So his argument then was, okay, they say I can't use nitrogen gas. So now, like years before... I want the option to pick how I'm going to die. And what does he pick, Robes?

00:15:37
Speaker 2: Firing squad.

00:15:38
Speaker 1: Something they don't have the capacity to do.

00:15:40
Speaker 2: Alabama does not authorize the use of a firing squad. So what's the state to do? Yes.

00:15:49
Speaker 1: So his argument that he continues to put forward and he will continue to do so to the last minute is that you are not lawfully executing me. Even his lawyers say, He is not fighting his execution. He's fighting his method of execution.

00:16:06
Speaker 2: And yes, this is all what happens in these final hours. Any single argument you can make to try and delay, delay, delay. To hope that somehow you get pushed down the bureaucracy of whatever red tape you hope you get entangled in so that your execution date gets put off into obscurity and you don't have to deal with it. It's kicking the can. Literally, they're kicking the can because they're not trying to say he didn't do this crime. And they've exhausted, I believe, all their options in the argument against, well, a jury of our peers or a jury of his peers did not choose for him to die. All of those options or appeals have been exhausted. So now it's just like, let's play around with the fact that we didn't ask or we didn't want to die by lethal injection.

00:17:01
Speaker 1: Everybody wants to live, baby.

00:17:02
Speaker 2: Let's just try to live another day. It really is one more day. One more day.

00:17:07
Speaker 1: And look, we say this now. What happened yesterday? A guy in Georgia was set to die by lethal injection and he has gotten to live another day because he got a stay of execution because his lawyers kept throwing everything against the wall and something finally stuck.

00:17:22
Speaker 2: They finally found a new law that allowed a re-examination of childhood abuse, severe abuse that may have led or could somehow be connected to a current homicide and therefore he deserves that review under this new law which buys him Some more time.

00:17:40
Speaker 1: Might not save his life.

00:17:41
Speaker 2: Isn't time the one thing we can't purchase? It's the one thing we can't be guaranteed, but it's the one thing we'll fight for when we realize it's up.

00:17:50
Speaker 1: We'll pay for it.

00:17:51
Speaker 2: We'll do anything.

00:17:52
Speaker 1: Anything for it, baby. There is something to these stories.

00:17:56
Speaker 2: Remember.

00:17:57
Speaker 1: There really is something to these stories, Rogue. When you see people that have nothing seemingly to live for, you're going to stay behind a cage forever. What life do you have? What relationships do you have? What future can you have? What Netflix and chill evenings can you have? None of that. Yet and still, they are fighting harder to live than I think most people I run into.

00:18:19
Speaker 2: I do think, yes, these stories, if nothing else, can remind us that we should be grateful for the next moment we have, able to breathe, free, to love and live exactly how we want. It's all in our own... We have the choice. Those of us who are listening right now, we're not in this man's position. And maybe we're not taking... That's.

00:18:43
Speaker 1: Why we're not fighting, baby. Because we think we got another day and another day and another day. If somebody circled on that calendar and told you at this time, at 6 p.m.

00:18:51
Speaker 2: So much... You'd be living very differently.

00:18:52
Speaker 1: You'd be living... You would.

00:18:54
Speaker 2: These stories absolutely bring that... Front and center. I hope that's the takeaway from these. Look, they're interesting. We can understand how our legal system works. We can maybe even decide what side of the fence we are when it comes to capital punishment. But more than anything, I hope these stories remind us just that very strong desire by most humans to live another day. And we all somehow forget that we're actually given that. And it's not... It's not guaranteed, but we take it for granted. These folks know. You're right. They have a date circled. Imagine if you had a date circled. How would you live? Live that way now, today, right now. Act as though there's a date circled in the near future and you've got guaranteed time, but it's limited. So go ahead and make the.

00:19:49
Speaker 1: Most of it. How old was Hayden Panettiere?

00:19:52
Speaker 2: 36?

00:19:52
Speaker 1: 36.

00:19:53
Speaker 2: She was about to turn 37. She was days away from her 37th birthday.

00:19:56
Speaker 1: I say that because you mentioning this and I'm just looking at the episodes in the feed today and the one right before this on our feed is about Hayden Panettiere.

00:20:04
Speaker 2: She didn't think she was going to die that day.

00:20:06
Speaker 1: Who took a pill now, according to reporting from Teensy. Took a pill.

00:20:11
Speaker 2: To feel a little bit better. To feel better. To have a little less pain during her day.

00:20:15
Speaker 1: She thought she had an afternoon and an evening ahead of her. The next day and the next day. Man. So, yeah. We've gotten it. It's taken a while to get to this sometimes, Rose, with these cases. But it's consistent. Yes. Who has nothing to live for? Somebody in prison on death row.

00:20:32
Speaker 2: And still. Still.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: Fighting harder than any of us to stay alive. Folks, we appreciate you as always. We'll keep an eye on this one to see if anything pops from this, if any court intervention happens. But as always, we appreciate you spending some time with us. I'm TJ. On behalf of my dear Amy Robach, we'll talk soon.