A Real Look at Divorce and Loss with Erinn Hayes from It's Not Like That

00:00:16
Speaker 1: Hey, I Do Part two. It's Ben Higgins jumping in for a very special episode on the pod, and I'm joined by one of your favorite hosts, one of my favorite hosts, Kathy Swartz.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: Hello, Kathy, Hello there, Ben.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: Now, this is I Do Part two, the pod that's all about never giving up on love and hopefully finding love again. In chapter two, today, we're gonna be talking with one of the stars of the new Amazon Prime show It's not like that, Kathy. We both watched. We both were just talking about how much we enjoyed it. Aaron in this Aaron Hayes, who is our guest today, is fantastic.

00:01:00
Speaker 2: Do you agree.

00:01:02
Speaker 3: I think she's fabulous, and it's amazing since she's married to her high school sweetheart and has two kids.

00:01:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, she's really good at pulling deep. Here, let's bring Aaron in to talk to her about this new Amazon Prime show that I think everybody should watch.

00:01:18
Speaker 2: It's not like that Hillon.

00:01:22
Speaker 3: Well, I just want to say Aaron that I've watched the first three episodes and for me, my husband passed away and it was such a really good representation of what it's like to walk that journey of grief.

00:01:39
Speaker 4: And oh wow.

00:01:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, and just it just reminds me of the ripple effect death, divorce, any kind of loss has on your family and friends.

00:01:47
Speaker 5: So my hat is off to you guys. It's a great show.

00:01:51
Speaker 6: Thank you, Thank you for watching. And I'm so glad that you had that experience, Like it's nice to hear from people that we are doing that process justice.

00:01:59
Speaker 4: You know.

00:02:00
Speaker 1: It's you know, I think the show watching it, it does a fantastic job, and especially early on, of introducing these two stories, you know, separate but different, and how they intertwined together.

00:02:16
Speaker 2: Obviously you know your character.

00:02:21
Speaker 1: Has gone through a divorce and your co stars character has just recently lost their wife. It starts, at least in episode one, with the family dynamics of this. Yeah, I think my question for you here is kind of how did you bring in this insight? Obviously you're married to your high school sweetheart, you have two children, So how do you kind of bring in the accuracy that Kathy is speaking about into how this whole both dynamics work.

00:02:55
Speaker 6: Well, it's I mean that part of it, I'll be honest, was a little bit tricky because I have not gotten a divorce, but I am still like, I'm twenty one years married, but my parents got divorced when I was fourteen, and it really threw my whole world upside down. So like pulling on that or realizing that, like, how would I have parented myself?

00:03:24
Speaker 7: How would I have liked to have been parented through that hard time I was? I thought a lot about in terms of meeting my character with a little bit of grace and understanding, And then you know, I don't. I think there's very few lives in this world that have not been touched by loss.

00:03:42
Speaker 3: I have.

00:03:43
Speaker 4: I like, literally I have not had a very very close friend to me pass, but I have had lots of friends who have had very close people pass very like you know, tight tight best friends. Talk to some of them.

00:03:58
Speaker 6: There's so many great books out there about the grieving process, about divorce, all of it. So I've picked up a couple of those.

00:04:07
Speaker 7: And then I have to just give a lot of the credit to our writers because it was baked into the script. You know, it was just the specifics that then we were, you know, conversations we had about how we might feel in each moment, but so much.

00:04:26
Speaker 6: Of it was already was already right there in the.

00:04:28
Speaker 1: Script grief is I mean, I've leaned and heard Kathy's story multiple times, but grief usually is a concept for a show, like it's a story piece of a show, but it's not necessarily something with the.

00:04:44
Speaker 2: Show leads with.

00:04:45
Speaker 1: But this, this show leads with grief, which I think is very relatable because so many of us have experienced grief and pain. And I kind of believe that everybody has experienced some type of grief and pain. What made you jump on the show and say, yes, I want to do it knowing that grief was such a focus, at least early on in the in the storyline.

00:05:11
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was so drawn to this show. And I think because of that, you know, they they really you know, grief sneaks up on you and in moments that you don't expect. In there's there's just such a there was such a beautiful moment in the pilot that I was like, Oh, this this is where they've gotten it right, you know, because Scott Foley's character, you know, his he lost his wife, who was my best friend. And to lose your best friend, to lose your wife, to have, you know, to have your new best friend become your wife's partner, you know, the husband where she's you know, they're in a car and she's there. Both have had terrible days and she wants to complain to her friend and she does, and then he lightens the moment and he makes a joke, and I think for me, it was that moment where I was like, Oh, this is when you need your best friend, and that's and then she pivots and is like, I miss Jenny. Because at first I was like, how do I get from this place to I miss Jenny? It was like, oh, that's why, because she's talking to the wrong person, but the right person is no longer there, and that is so specific and it's so painful when you just need that one person to talk to but they can't, they can't be there anymore. And I loved the way they wrote that, and I was like, if they get this, which is also such a female perspective, you know, about like how we talk to our best friends. I'm in safe hands. You know, this is going to be good. It's going to be nuanced, it's going to deal with the complicated nature of it, the little moments that that sneak up all of that.

00:07:00
Speaker 3: I find it interesting though we don't talk about grief. There aren't many shows that focus on griefs. It's a very uncomfortable topic. And that's why I find this so interesting.

00:07:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm glad you feel that way, because it's true. Like where we meet them, it's not right after a lot of you know, shows might show the week after where it's so fresh and it's so raw. But to kind of start these meet these characters maybe ten months into their grief journey when most people kind of think, right, you should be back to normal and getting on with your life. And to have two people that really understand each other's grief so well and can talk about it, and and the way they with the kids too, that it's very discussed. It is on these lingering effects of if you know, if you watch episode three, it's like they have a means to go through moms stuff and like how each person is going to deal with that moment of you know, quote unquote moving on.

00:08:10
Speaker 1: Aaron, Kathy and I are both people who openly and passionately express our faith. Faith is a huge element of this show. Yeah, here is something that I think I want you to speak on.

00:08:26
Speaker 2: Okay, grew up in.

00:08:27
Speaker 1: The church, still actively involved. I would never tell anybody for the first thirty five years of my life to watch any Christian television. It was poorly made, it was goofy, it was awkward, it was oftentimes that acting like there was just all this like low budget, like there were so many things that were like it was made fun of, like why would we not?

00:08:52
Speaker 2: Why would do this? The Wonder Project.

00:08:54
Speaker 1: I know the people that started the Wonder Project, well, they've done a couple things that are spitular. It's spectacular, will be well done. I believe the show is one of them. If I think if people didn't know, they would never know that this was, you know, a faith backed show. I really want you, though, to kind of tell the listeners and the audience here that this is different than maybe what they imagine Christian television to look like.

00:09:25
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think here, here's the thing. I did not grow up particularly religious at all. My parents were a little more New Age and but have deeply instilled in me a lot of the tenants of it. You know, love your neighbor and be kind of people, and lead with grace and like all of these kind of things. So I like, there is that thing about Christian television or faith based television. And I would say that our show is a show about families, and Scott fully plays a pastor, like that's the thing. It's so it's showing the reality of a pastor words and all, and really humanizing that and making him a real person. And it's more I feel like it's there if you want it, and it's really not if you're not looking for you know, it's more like, yes, every character might have their separate, different relationship with faith with God, but this is not a show that is preaching to you about that. It's a show about personal relationships and some of our things. Some of the scenes take place at a church. Well.

00:10:42
Speaker 3: I also think though that that you the show is great, that it shows the struggle of adolescence, fighting with parents, their parents about church and their faith and struggling with that.

00:10:57
Speaker 5: I just think it encompasses so much many aspects.

00:11:01
Speaker 3: Of family life in addition to dealing with divorce laws.

00:11:06
Speaker 6: Yeah, it is interesting to me too, because you know, I think my best friend when I was a kid, her dad was a pastor and uh, and I remember like, oh, it was so foreign to me getting to go to Sunday school with her, like have a sleepover Saturday night and then get to go to Sunday school and be like, mom, they have the best snacks. Mom, we get to like go and hang out. And she's like, okay, listen, if that's what you're if you want to go, then you could do that. I moved schools and I did not keep in touch with her, but it was so interesting to me because I don't know that life, you know, And like, the conversations that are had on the show about religion are for the most part between a pastor and his children, and they are they're about like, how do you reconcile your faith when you lose someone very close to you and that's not what you know? You know, how how can like his daughter asks her like, I don't know how you can go back there after this, and he's like, well, this isn't you know. So they have that conversation, that conversation, and it kind of like pulls the you know, pulls the shade away from what it might be to to grow up as a pique, as a as a pastor's kid, and all that that entails at school and at home. So the religious aspect of the show, I think is very grounded in what the reality, and it's not forced into moments to just to put it out there.

00:12:39
Speaker 1: I think you said that really well, it doesn't feel forced, and I think in the past faith based programming felt forced. There was this struggle and then there's this like miraculous turnaround and everything seems to be peachy, you know, peachy and good. What I enjoyed and what I enjoy about television in general and storytelling is you use the words, and I think it's true. It humanizes the characters. I think your show really humanizes the experience of a pastor trying to process loss and as you know, your best friend who was lost and you going through divorce on the show, how you're processing it. And it reveals these these conversations that we don't see in faith programming often about a desire for intimacy physical intimacy again, yeah, a desire for you to say, hey, I need to be bitchy for a little bit. I think it just it feels more real than what others did. And I think that's healthy because I watch it and I relate. I watched other faith programming and I said, I that's not me, Like, that's not my household.

00:13:49
Speaker 6: They're not like, yeah, I think that they've they've done a beautiful job of These are people going through things that make mistakes and don't always say the right thing, and they are not gonna have maybe the perfect parenting moment. You know, you might walk away and be like, that's not don't all what I meant to say to my child. Now she's mad at me with that, And like I like, when I'm watching, I'm like, this is a family show at its heart. It's about as religious as nobody wants this, you know, like it's just it's yeah, it's it's it's family, and it's not pushing that. And that's what drew me to honestly, drew me to it was that it wasn't like it's foreign to me. So I'm like, okay, let's let's let's dive in. Let's see what we can make here. Without being being preachy to people.

00:14:41
Speaker 3: I want to add, I think that it is not just about a man and a woman adults.

00:14:47
Speaker 5: I think it is a family show.

00:14:49
Speaker 3: I could well imagine my children were older when my husband died, But I could well imagine that had they been younger, that would have been a really good show.

00:14:59
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:14:59
Speaker 6: I've got messages from friends that like are watching it with like their twelve year old and really because I think that that we have a storyline, you know, with the like the preteen girls, and this is I mean, it's happened in my life where your best friend and the kids grow up together and then all of a sudden they don't like each other anymore. And you're like, but hanging out used to be so easy, and we can make all these plans and I can make plin and then would just be there and now it's like you and I can do something right, but are like, hopefully they'll grow out of it or hopefully they'll come back together.

00:15:32
Speaker 5: And that's what's just so amazing is the layering in the show.

00:15:37
Speaker 3: I just, I just it's not just about faith, it's not just about loss, it's not just about divorce. It really encompasses so many family aspects that we all go through it sometime or another.

00:15:49
Speaker 6: Yeah.

00:15:49
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Aaron on this podcast.

00:16:03
Speaker 1: One of the topics that it's always brought up because this show is about that second chapter and about finding love again, and you know, reference to today's conversation, it's obviously about a divorce. And a loss of a spouse. But in your own personal life, I think, just so people can get to know you better, how do you find the ability to love yourself every day? You know, you have this incredible story with your high school sweetheart and your two kids, But how do you personally find you know, that second renewal of love.

00:16:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's I mean, I think for like most of us, it's a struggle. It's like day to day, right, like, how much are you I find that I am? Well, I don't know. I'll answer it this way. Let me know if you if this was what you met, like, I find that I'm most fulfilled when i'm you know, like having it all. And I mean like did I get outside a little bit today? Did I do Did I have some time with my children that felt meaningful? Have I laughed with my husband? Have I exercise? Have I exercised? You know, did I like, do one nice thing in the house or did I talk to a hang out with a friend. I mean, you can't keep all your cups filled all the time. But if I you know, hit three out of five and one of them involves like doing something nice for my husband or doing something nice for my children, then usually I feel like, you know, a little pat on the back, like I feel all right, I feel a little full. But there are those times, and it's interesting like with the show, because I think we meet her at one of these early times where which is a very typical mom experience. You know, we are trying to make everything okay for everybody else all the time. We want our kids to be okay. We even like she's even taking care of her ex husband because she doesn't know how not to do that. She wants to take care of Malcolm. She wants to do so it's like you see Lorie like giving and giving and trying to wrestle with how do I take care of myself? I think me as an actor, like I have a lot of time off in between jobs a lot of times, you know, like we're not like, oh so overworked, We're just like, please give me work so that in the time off I can I can take time for myself, usually especially when the kids are at school and you know they're sixteen and eighteen now, so they drive, so there's like a lot less to do so I can have that time. But it's interesting, like where we meet this character is that she doesn't know how to do.

00:18:55
Speaker 1: That yet, Kathy, do you feel that way not to turn this conversation on?

00:18:58
Speaker 6: No, please?

00:19:00
Speaker 5: Did I feel which way?

00:19:03
Speaker 1: Like there wasn't enough, you know, after especially after your loss, like that you're taking care of everybody else, So.

00:19:11
Speaker 5: You know, for me, my.

00:19:14
Speaker 3: Struggle was a little bit more difficult because of the nature of my husband's death and my kids were older.

00:19:21
Speaker 6: How old were they, can I ask.

00:19:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, My daughter was thirty two and a son thirty six, and a son about that thirty thirty two in their thirties, and one grandchild, And so for me it was it was very difficult to I found I really struggled to meet my kid's needs. I couldn't even meet my own needs when he died. So it's a little bit different now. I think that's why this show resonates with me so much now, because it's almost looking in the rear view mirror of coming up on his seventh anniversary of his death, And for me, his death was a suicide, and so it was a very different kind of the character on the show. He has time to process that she's dying of cancer, and I think that makes a difference. So for me, it's a little bit different. But that's why I appreciate this show so much. I get to reflect on how my life has changed, and it actually gives me a lot of hope that I've come so far, because grief is a journey that you just keep walking through.

00:20:34
Speaker 4: You.

00:20:35
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, I'm glad that you are sitting in a comfortable space watching this experience that me coming on this podcast wasn't mess.

00:20:44
Speaker 3: Oh no, thoroughly, I really thoroughly. I actually would kind of like my kids to watch. I think they would benefit from it as well.

00:20:51
Speaker 2: I'm good now, Aaron.

00:20:53
Speaker 1: That kind of wraps us up here to really the final chapter for viewers out there, are people curious about what we're speaking about today. What do you hope they get out of watching this show? What do you hope there are overall experiences.

00:21:07
Speaker 6: Listen? Number one? I hope they're entertained. Number two, I hope we can. You know, I love the messages of this show is it's really kind of how do we meet other people and ourselves with a little bit of grace and kindness, you know, because we don't we think we know what people are going through. We don't know what anybody is going through and so to meet somebody from a place of understanding and kindness. I guess that's what I would like people to take from this show.

00:21:44
Speaker 3: And how to support I think you're you at your character. You do a great job of showing how to support people, children and other and adults going through this.

00:21:55
Speaker 6: So my head, I love this because I tell you, like in my my own personal and my friends will know this, like, oh, I will mother ever anybody you let me mother you. I just like, come come here, let me brush your hair, Let's hold your hand. I want to I'll tell you, I'll tell you some heart's truth, but I'll also want to snuggle you afterwards when we watch some television. So I love like and I love the children on this show so much, like I just get to mother more people, please. That fills my heart.

00:22:24
Speaker 1: It's really well done. We wouldn't be speaking about it today unless it was for anybody listening who will come across this. Be sure to check out it's not like that on Amazon Prime.

00:22:38
Speaker 2: It's out now.

00:22:40
Speaker 1: The star one of the stars of the show, Aaron Hayes, has been with us today. Aaron, thank you so much for doing this and being a part of this project and jumping on and talking to us today.

00:22:50
Speaker 6: Of course, so happy to talk to you guys lovely.

00:22:53
Speaker 3: Are you in your chapter two and struggling to get back into the dating scene? Need some advice? Call us or email us. All the info is in the show notes. Follow us on socials. Make sure to rate and review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective.