Episodes

In this episode, Rachel speaks with Jon Atack about Scientology, authoritarianism, and the ways belief systems can shape behavior. Jon reflects on his experience with Scientology, the harassment he encountered after speaking out, and the contradictions he found within its teachings. Rachel and Jon examine moral injury, magical thinking, othering, certainty, and the difficulty of psychologically separating from a controlling group. They also discuss developing a sense of self, compassion, and hum...

Jules Evans and Rachel discuss the overlap between psychedelic culture, therapeutic abuse, cultic dynamics, and coercive control. Drawing from Jules’ research into post-psychedelic difficulties and Rachel’s decades of counseling former cult members, they examine how charismatic facilitators and leaders can exploit trust, vulnerability, awe, and the desire for healing. They explore guruism, dependency, group pressure, psychedelic therapy, AI-based spiritual movements, family-like power structure...

In this episode, Rachel welcomes back Renee Swanson, host of the Covert Narcissism Podcast, to discuss the often-invisible impact of covert narcissistic relationships. Renee explains why self-reflective people can internalize blame, how emotional and psychological threats affect the body, and why anger, hypervigilance, fear, obligation, and guilt can keep people trapped. Rachel and Renee also examine narcissistic rage, manipulation, isolation, remorse, and the difficulty of identifying subtle ab...

This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this special bonus episode, Rachel dives into a thought-provoking quote by Friedrich Nietzsche: "They muddy the waters to make them seem deep," reflecting on how individuals in positions of authority can obscure clarity and understanding. Rachel examines the social dynamics that can leave individuals feeling inadequate or confused ...

In this episode, Rachel welcomes Hoyt Richards back to discuss how he transformed his experience in the Eternal Values group into public education and survivor advocacy. Hoyt explains the difference between intellectually understanding coercive influence and emotionally processing it, why taking ownership can be empowering without becoming self-blame, and how “micro compromises” weaken a person’s trust in their inner voice. They also examine the limits of true-crime storytelling, the ripple effe...

In this compelling episode, Rachel welcomes back Pamela Nickel Williams, who shares her profound journey of growing up in Scientology as a second-generation member. Pamela reflects on the complex dynamics of her family relationships, particularly the devotion to an organization that often overshadowed personal connections and well-being. With the anniversary of her book, Clearly Lies Are True, approaching, Pamela discusses the unexpected ways her story has resonated with a broader audience beyon...

This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this bonus episode, Rachel explores the complex phenomenon of dissociation, particularly in individuals who have experienced trauma or been involved in cultic environments. Drawing from her recent workshops at the International Cultic Studies Association conference, Rachel discusses how dissociation can manifest as a protective mec...

In this gripping episode, Rachel sits down with Sarah Green, the daughter of a former cult leader, to explore her harrowing journey growing up in a paramilitary religious organization known as the Aggressive Christianity Missions Training Corps. Sarah shares her firsthand experiences of the chaos and unpredictability that defined her childhood, from moving 54 times before the age of ten to being subjected to the whims of her mother, who claimed to receive divine guidance. As Sarah recounts her ...

In this episode, Rachel welcomes back Chris Shelton, a former Scientologist and author of the new book, What Now? They dive deep into Chris's experiences, discussing the complexities of recovery from high-control groups and the importance of understanding one's own moral framework. Chris shares insights from his extensive studies in coercive control and introduces his REM model, which explores the layers of consciousness, morality, emotions, and rationality that influence human behavior. Chris ...

This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this exclusive Patreon bonus episode, Rachel shares her reflections on the importance of agency and consent in our interactions with others. Drawing from a seemingly casual conversation with a yoga instructor at a music festival, Rachel explores the deeper implications of how we communicate and engage with each other, particularly in...

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein welcomes back Andrew Jasko, a religious trauma and cult specialist, for a thought-provoking discussion on the potential pitfalls of the Law of Attraction, also known as manifestation. Andrew delves into the historical roots of this philosophy, tracing its connections to the New Thought Church movement, and examines how its teachings can lead to psychological harm and victim-blaming. As they explore the nuances of spirituality and personal responsibility, Rachel...

In this episode, Rachel welcomes back Elise Heerde, a mental health practitioner and co-director of the Religious Trauma Collective in Australia. Together, they delve into the complexities of religious trauma, cult recovery, and the ethical considerations surrounding exit counseling. Elise shares her journey and insights gained from her work with survivors, emphasizing the importance of agency and choice during the recovery process. Elise discusses the evolution of terminology in the field, mov...

This is just a preview of our Patreon-exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein discusses how difficult it can be to be the lone dissenting voice when others admire a narcissistic partner or cult leader. She describes serving on a jury involving an unhoused African American man accused of a store break-in based on grainy security footage, where other jurors argued the...

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein speaks with Melissa Duge Spiers, who talks about growing up inside the Seventh-day Adventist Church — and the hidden cost of its end-times, high-control culture. Her book, ‘Holy Disobedience: Sex, Sin, and Secrets in the Biggest Church No One Knows,’ traces Adventism's roots back to the 1840s Millerite movement and the visions of prophet Ellen White, whose experiences Spiers connects to traumatic brain injury and temporal lobe epilepsy. Melissa unpacks how infor...

In this episode of IndoctriNation, Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, MSEd, welcomes back Andrew Jasko, psychotherapist and comparative religion scholar, for a deep and honest conversation about growing up inside evangelical and Pentecostal Christianity — and the long road to recovery from religious trauma. Andrew grew up as a minister's son, immersed in a world of intense devotion, purity culture, missionary ambitions, and fear of eternal punishment. What he didn't yet have language for were the lasting p...

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein reflects on cult survivor and former supermodel Hoyt Richards and provides background on the high-control group at the center of HBO's 'Bring Me The Beauties: A Model Cult.' The group was led by Frederick von Mierers, a self-styled Manhattan socialite claiming authority from alien beings....

Carol Merchasin returns, and this time, Rachel and Carol go deep on what it actually looks like when survivors of coercive control, spiritual abuse, and high-control groups consider taking legal action. Carol shares how her career shifted from corporate employment investigations to building a litigation practice focused on religious misconduct and cultic settings, and what landmark cases reveal about how the law interprets coercion, consent, and systems of control. What happens when a survivor w...

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, MSEd, sits down with Jared Stacy, PhD, who is a theologian and ethicist. He is the author of "Reality in Ruins: How Conspiracy Theory Became an Evangelical Crisis." They sit down for a deeply personal and clinically resonant conversation about radicalization, religious trauma, coercive belonging, and the courage it takes to say "I don't know." Jared grew up inside fundamentalist evangelical Christianity, attended Liberty University, and was a pastor befor...

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this Patreon bonus episode, host Rachel Bernstein, LMFT, examines how victim blaming functions across abusive relationships, sexual violence, cults, and high-control religious environments — and why it remains one of the most pervasive obstacles to survivor recovery. Rachel discusses why those who cause harm often present as calm and...

In this episode, Daniella Mestyanek Young returns to IndoctriNation to discuss how cults exploit group dynamics. Born three generations into the Children of God, then a U.S. Army intelligence officer, Daniella has spent her career studying coercive control from the inside out. In her new book The Culting of America, she lays out a 10-part model of cult tactics — the same playbook used in religious cults, high-control workplaces, the military, single-family cults, and even fandoms. Rachel Bernste...

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein sits down with Lindsey Sanders to talk about her memoir, The Sacred Song of a Heretic, and what it means to reclaim "sacredness" outside of a high-control religion. Lindsey was raised in a multigenerational Mormon family, where she was taught to value obedience, certainty, traditional gender roles, a limited range of acceptable emotions, and avoidance of outside sources of information. As a teenager, a relationship with another girl set off a chain of guilt, par...

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination In this Patreon bonus episode, host Rachel Bernstein unpacks the idea of "cults of two" — one-on-one relationships that can carry the same coercive control, manipulation, and reality-distortion found in larger high-control groups. How does a single person create cult-like power without a group? Rachel breaks down the tactics manipulato...

In this episode, host Rachel Bernstein welcomes back author Tia Levings to discuss her new book, I Belong to Me: A Survivor’s Guide to Recovery and Hope After Religious Trauma Tia opens up about surviving church-sanctioned domestic abuse and the long, deliberately paced process of rebuilding selfhood after leaving Christian patriarchy. She and Rachel explore how reclaiming body awareness, personal boundaries, and the simple practice of "I statements" can counter indoctrination. The conversation ...

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein interviews Ru Marshall about the hidden world surrounding the guru Carlos Castaneda. Marshall shares insights from their research into Castaneda’s history, manipulation tactics, spiritual abuse, and the disturbing aftermath surrounding his inner circle after his death. The conversation explores charismatic narcissism, cult control, and how high-control spiritual leaders exploit vulnerability and emotional dependency. Rachel and Marshall also discuss the psycholo...