134: Unlocking Literacy: A Deep Dive into Plabook's AI-Powered Education Revolution with Dr. Phil Hickman

Holly Owens (00:02):

Hello everyone and welcome to another amazing episode of Edup Ed Tech. My name is Holly Owens

DaNadia Johnson (00:10):

And my name is Nadia Johnson and we're your hosts

Holly Owens (00:15):

And we are super stoked today because we have an awesome guest with us. We have Dr. Phil Hickman, who is the CEO and founder of Plabook on the Show. So Dr. Phil, welcome on in to Ed Tech.

DaNadia Johnson (00:29):

Welcome. Thank

Dr. Phil (00:31):

You. I really appreciate it. It's an honor to be here.

Holly Owens (00:34):

We're excited to chat with you and talk about all things Plabook. But before we do that, we want to know, and I listened to a little bit of your story. I try not to listen to too much, but a previous show, I want to know about your background, where you come from, how you got to be CEO and Co-founder. So tell the audience a little bit about yourself.

Dr. Phil (00:56):

And so I did everything in the field of education. I have five graduate degrees and a doctorate and five graduate degrees and a doctorate. I'm currently finishing up my MBA as well, and so that's another one. But I started out as a teacher, was a counselor, a school psychologist. I was a assistant principal, principal. I was a superintendent, some of the largest school districts in the nation. We had 300 schools, 210,000 students. I was a superintendent in some of the most rural districts in the United States and Mississippi. And then I was a national ambassador for the United States Department of Education and just seeing education as a whole at the micro level and the macro level and really looking at the fact that the research is clear, 75% of fourth graders United States read below grade level. And so to me that was staggering because of the consequences that happened after that.

(01:55):

We have 73% of crime. United States is created by high school dropouts. 82% of prison inmates have a reading impairment that has just never been corrected. So we simply could have taught them how to read and it could have changed their trajectory. And so I thought that was something that was worth addressing and I wanted to look at how can we do it? What is the research saying? And the research was saying that one, the methods that we teach of reading, 86% of teachers said that they learned how to teach reading from other teachers, and 73 were incorrect. They were teaching the wrong methods instead of a science-based curriculum. And then if you look at the fact that we have a national teacher shortage, so we have school districts that don't have, I work with school districts that don't have one certified teacher throughout the whole district and maybe a certified principal out of all their buildings.

(02:52):

And not that that's saying a certified teacher is the only one that can teach, but I'm saying without understanding the pedagogy and the learning, how could you have a standardized education? When I say standardized, I mean what one student gets, every student receives that strong, consistent base of learning is not based off your zip code. It's not based off what class you get or what teacher you get or those kinds of things. And so I had to look at what is an equalizer, what across the board can give you that? And that's where I taught myself how to code. I taught myself how to code and then in the process I Super impressive.

DaNadia Johnson (03:28):

That is

Dr. Phil (03:30):

I started amongst all your free time, getting all your degrees

DaNadia Johnson (03:36):

Yourself out a coach.

Dr. Phil (03:38):

That's

Holly Owens (03:39):

Awesome. Yeah.

Dr. Phil (03:40):

I also in the process started two coding academies. And so I was able to look at even understanding code from a broader standpoint. I had one Mississippi Coding Academy where we trained people with 17 years and older to be able to be programmers again into the workforce. And then we code KC will retrain students seven years old to 17. And so started dibbling dabbling and developed a framework. And then I brought on two other guys who were strong at artificial intelligence, really strong at looking at developing algorithms that are really going to be predictive of students' behavior I call Plabook, which is an innovative reading technology that uses artificial intelligence, natural language processing, and speech recognition to help children learn how to read. I kind of call it a GPS because a lot of times students are on their learning journey and if they're driving down the street and they're supposed to turn left, but they turn right, we never catch them until they're miles down the wrong road. And the issue

(04:41):

Is that then you have to catch them all the way up to the starting point and then you have to do another catch up to the kids who are already on the right course. They're a couple of miles down the correct way. And so the issue is maybe that can happen with one or two students, but the problem is in our classroom, it's so differentiated that we have so many students that make the wrong turn at any given turn and we need something that automatically reroutes them. And that's where AI came in in the tool. The other thing, and I know I talked a lot, but the other thing is speech recognition. So right now the major issue with all, and I would say all of our education technology tools that teach reading is at the end of the day, the only way that you can assess reading using those tools is you have a child read a paragraph quietly and answer multiple choice questions.

(05:30):

That's reading comprehension. I don't understand for the life of before ever since I was born and before that they have only been assessing reading comprehension. But the problem is not can the kids comprehend, it has to do with basic reading. They spend so much time trying to decode and break down words that they don't have any more capacity to understand what they read. But if you talk to them, if you tell them a song or whatever, I mean they have good conversations, so they have comprehension ability, they don't have basic reading ability. And so we have never analyzed that and then prescribed an intervention based off that. We've been basing our analysis and our interventions off of reading comprehension. And so that's why we develop Plabook. It's the first time, and not only can we hear the child read, we have our own technology and our own speech engine that we can hear all the way down to the phonemic level. So if a child read the word back, we hear, but act, we break down every unit of speech and those things.

DaNadia Johnson (06:31):

Yeah, I was going to say foundationally comprehension is based off of those foundational skills like phonemic awareness, phonological awareness, all of those pieces. Comprehension is a part of that, but if they can't read, if they can't actually decode words, then comprehension is never going to really come. So yeah, I have so many questions about, you've been in so many different roles within education. I have so many questions about your experiences in those roles, but I know that this is not the point of that. Another Episode, Just so you have so many different, I'm sure, perspectives and viewpoints when it comes to education and what it looks like. I know you kind of already given us a little intro to Plabook, but now is the part where we really want to dig into Plabook and we want you to tell us more about Plabook and how you help institutions, organizations in education.

Dr. Phil (07:34):

So Plabook, one of the things, we license it to school districts. We give a seat license. So right now what we're trying to do is we're really trying to affect the change of reading. We receive a lot of support. Google has backed us up and all those kinds of things to where we can even offer at a price that's really impactful. So we charge $20 per student per year, but the issue is that not only the student gets a dashboard, we have gamification, AI that rewards the student and it tailors and personalized games, which I'll talk about that in a minute. But the other thing is that we have a district dashboard. So we will give analytics, smart analytics to the district to let the district know, Hey, these are your problem areas. This is where you need to spend your money or put your money towards or put your professional development towards the same thing at the bid level to the principal. And then our dashboard is also offered to parents. And so parents can assign readings, parents can assign activities and games for students to learn and those kinds of things.

Holly Owens (08:34):

I love that.

Dr. Phil (08:35):

And so it's a holistic platform that really involves everyone, and we really specialize in our AI and our smart dashboards and our smart data because one of the things that a lot of people don't understand, the research is clear. A school district has just as amount of data. They sit on the same amount of data that a Fortune 500 company does, but the problem is they just use it to record history. You pass fail, you're in attendance, you're absent, you're at this grade, boy, girl, all those kind of things, as opposed to if I go to any, I mean, I could walk into a Walmart and they're already on my phone sending ads, they already know what I'm going to buy. I Dunno. How was your shopping experience? I got that one the other day. Email.

Holly Owens (09:27):

I'm like, what in the world?

Dr. Phil (09:29):

Exactly. You missed

Holly Owens (09:30):

A product

DaNadia Johnson (09:31):

And you already have.

Holly Owens (09:33):

Yeah.

Dr. Phil (09:35):

And so how could they, or why is it so important for them to personalize towards their end user? And we don't personalize anything towards our end. I mean, the minute second that student walks through that door, we should be doing something. Forget that the minute second, that student gets on that bus. When I was a superintendent, we put wifi on the buses and we called it mobile homework where students were able to get on the bus and they were able, and we sent them games, but academic games and activities, anything that enriched them and so they can learn to have that activity. We used our this's weird that schools didn't do this is that schools are public first of all, and so the citizens are paying for the things of the school. So we just put routers and we shot it into also our parking lot.

(10:28):

And so we knew in one of the school districts in Mississippi was very rural. We knew our constituents were poor, but this was the first time as I was a superintendent, but I would drive through the high school parking lot and I would see foggy windows and I would smile, and it was the first time because I walked through those windows. It was parents with their kids on the internet, and we also taught parents how to look for jobs and those kinds of things. But I'm just saying that we worked with different stores and saying, look, we gave our kids one-to-one laptops, and obviously they have internet issues. Can they sit in your lobby? Can they do this? And of course, the students had to sign a citizen form that they're not running around. They're not this, that and the other. But you will go to businesses.

(11:13):

And of course, they were patronizing businesses as well, but our students were sitting there in their uniforms and they were on laptops doing their work and learning, and that's what it's all about. So yeah, I saw education from a holistic standpoint, even at Houston, independent school districts, 300 schools. So we had some of the most poor schools in the nation. We had some of the most wealthy schools in the nation, the fluent schools, and we did things that wasn't conventional. We were looking at, okay, a funding formula. Why would we give our affluent schools where their dollars go well towards the system? Why would we give them the same amount of money that we would give a poverty school that is lacking? And so our funding shift and was different. People were uncomfortable with that at first, but then they got it. It is all about need. It's all about fairness and those kind of things.

Holly Owens (12:12):

Yeah, and you're sitting, go ahead, Nadia.

DaNadia Johnson (12:15):

Sorry. I was just going to say the whole parent portal thing, I love when, because as a former educator, parents struggle. They really do. And I think we sometimes miss the mark when it comes to realizing that this is a shared responsibility. Parents need to be just as much involved as teachers and the student. It's a triad, and I was always trying to give resources to my parents, but sometimes teachers just can't do it all. And so I love platforms that include that parent perspective. That's all I was going to say. Go ahead, Holly. Sorry.

Holly Owens (12:48):

Oh, no, I was just going to say that you're sitting with two former educators. Oh,

Dr. Phil (12:53):

Okay.

Holly Owens (12:54):

Yeah, we totally feel you and all that. I taught high school and Nadia taught elementary school, and I've been out of it quite a bit. But I mean, just the idea. I remember having students in my classes. I had remedial students who they had to pass a test to graduate high school, and they got all the way to me, and they were in this class to do some remedial stuff and they couldn't read. And I was like, how does this happen? They

DaNadia Johnson (13:24):

Just passed.

Holly Owens (13:26):

How do you get to senior year of high school and you can't read and you can't understand and you can't write. It just baffled me. I felt so bad. So I tried to do, I would've loved to have this app, everything in my power to support them so that when they did leave me that they felt like they did learn something or they were able to read and comprehend and understand. It was just such a challenge,

Dr. Phil (13:56):

As you were saying. Think about it at the high school level, your subject matter teacher, and you're expected to teach phonics in basic reading.

Holly Owens (14:06):

Yeah, Good thing. I had linguistics in college. That's all I'll say.

Dr. Phil (14:11):

Right, right, right. That's what I'm saying. Like she said, I know they're not getting at the foundation either. And it is just scary. Even though we're talking about the past, I can tell you in the present this year, I'm working with districts that for the last five years, they had 0% of kids throughout the whole district that have never met. I mean, they have 0% of kids that met state standards, zero from third grade all the way up. Not one student in five years have passed or even was on math or grade level expectations or whatever. The state labels that area 0%. And you talk about high school, that's Crazy.

DaNadia Johnson (15:01):

And I think you bring a good point too, a lot now what we're seeing with this teacher shortage, a lot of the people that are in the classrooms right now are not certified teachers.

(15:13):

And I work in curriculum development right now, and as a curriculum developer, we are considering that certified teachers are not teaching this curriculum. So how can we build curriculum that is going to allow anybody who is in that classroom to still teach the way, teach in a way that is going to meet students where they need to be? And I think that is the biggest thing we can consider as we're building ed tech tools. As we're building curriculum right now, the biggest thing to consider is that certified teachers are not in the classroom anymore, so how are we going to still support students and give them what they need when we don't have people who are trained to do this any

Dr. Phil (15:57):

Longer? So Plabook is developed, it's also developed in spite of who the teacher is, and that was important. So it's also designed to go, if you had a teacher that understands curriculum, it also gives the recommendation to the teachers and it really helps them really identify where the student is wrong. It fits any curriculum, core curriculum. It's more of a content is more of a criteria reference assessment, and it is also a formative assessment where it informs what you need to do with the curriculum that you have to teach it, where it's not built in isolation, like most tools to where their assessment has nothing to do with what you're teaching in the classroom just keeps giving you a wide general assessment. The other neat thing about it not only does it, so even with that, despite the teacher to the student, it gives personalized recommendations of activities where the student can strengthen the skills.

(17:00):

So when the science of Reading talks about the foundational skills that need to be called blending segmenting at any level, but the other thing that it does, it personalizes games so that the student has a playlist. It gives personalized games and personalized videos only. The recommendations are only for the student's deficits. And as soon as the student shows mastery across the platform, then those games and those videos drop off. The videos are introductory videos that introduce the skill in a fun way. They're animation all the way to the real character. And then the video games are like, let's just say they're all dynamic. So let's just say we have a Pacman game, but the Pacman game is that you have to gobble up the letters in a, B, C order before the other gobble vows only vows before the other pacman gets you, or bumper cars.

(17:53):

You only bump into the cars that are vows. And it increases with complexity. I mean, we have thousands of games, but they're all fun games, but they're tailored towards academics, so they're not your normal academic fun games to where they don't look like real video games. They look like arcade games. They're designed from arcade games and we're developed our own game style, but in the meantime, the student is actually learning. And then we have, they earn these coins both reading across the platform, doing the activities, and also during the games, everything is connected and they use those coins to actually play whimsical games, like the true video games that have nothing to do with necessarily. That's like a reward.

DaNadia Johnson (18:40):

Yeah,

Dr. Phil (18:40):

Just a reward. We have thousands of those games as well that the students love and they only last

Holly Owens (18:47):

Five,

Dr. Phil (18:47):

10 minutes. So the student won't live on a platform to play games, but they live on a platform to learn in order to play games. And that's okay. That's okay for us, as long as they're getting a byproduct of learning and everything is, there's an algorithm in there that if I'm, let's say I read at the fifth grade level and I read in kindergarten books to earn coins, you don't get as much percentage towards earned at coins as you do if you were reading at grade level or if you're reading above grade level. So everything's adaptive as well. So

DaNadia Johnson (19:18):

Do you guys use a pre-assessment? Is that where that data is coming from for them for it to be more personalized or tailored the learning experience to the student? Do they start with the pre-assessment and then that's what skills need to be practiced? Or how does that work?

Dr. Phil (19:36):

Either way? So the teachers obviously can say, this is the student. Oh, they Can import data Because say this is their student's read level, they put it on there, and every time the student's interacting through our platform, we're collecting data. But the other thing is that we do have an oral reading assessment, and it's adaptive. So the student is reading, if they read, let's say they read a sentence and they're 90 to a hundred percent is where they should be as an independent reading level, anything below that, the text will adjust, adjust, and it will finally find their lexile level, and then it'll level out and give them the rest of the passage of the lexile level to make sure that's truly it. And then it will spit out that student's lexile level. And then in the background is collecting all the errors that the student made, whether the student was making, let's say the student is struggling with the at sound, the at sound.

(20:23):

Well, then it will start recommending a preponderance of books that have cat, rat, sat, mat hat, just so they can practice when they're doing their independent reading. And for the student is not consciously, they don't know that, but now they're practicing the struggles that they had. And then it reteaches when they're doing activities and all those kind of things. And then again, it gives you that video where the video is saying, this is the S sound, the a t makes the sound, and you blend together. So it teaches that student. And then now when that student is reading cat and rat and sad and practicing it, then once they start to really get it, then it starts to challenge them more and those things drop off and it starts picking up on other errors.

Holly Owens (21:07):

Yeah, I'm just thinking about, the next question has to do with accessibility, but you've already talked about so much when it comes to accessibility and inclusion and working with an EdTech tool that incorporates all these different things. I think that was a priority as soon as you made this product. Oh

Dr. Phil (21:22):

Yeah.

Holly Owens (21:23):

Is making

Dr. Phil (21:24):

Sure.

Holly Owens (21:25):

Yeah, absolutely. With all your experience. So I would like to know from you, if somebody was creating a new technology or a new tech tool, how would you advise them on working with thinking about accessibility in those considerations as they're developing the tool, what should they consider? I think that's one thing that over the years just working in higher education or in K through 12, I've asked those questions at demos and people have kind of stared at me with a blank stare. What do you mean accessibility? What do you mean? I mean, it's more prevalent now than it ever was, but if you had advice to give to somebody who's starting up a company, what would you do surrounding that topic?

Dr. Phil (22:06):

Some of my advice is bias, meaning

Holly Owens (22:11):

We're good with that.

Dr. Phil (22:13):

Meaning that I got tired of seeing very beautiful ed tech tools that were not even closely developed by educator and couldn't translate into the classroom at all. So my first advice is spend time in the classroom, not just consult with an educator or, my other advice is as educators, if you guys understand how powerful your knowledge is that you can develop a tool, you're struggling. You have the pain points in your classroom every day. You're seeing a differentiation of students in your classroom from general ed to special education students. You're seeing it. And so exactly the pain points and you're living it and passionately develop a tool that could be a game changer. One of the things just like you guys are doing with your podcast is that I want to look at, okay, as a teacher, I'm only affecting the students in my classroom as a principal.

(23:14):

I'm only affecting the students in my building as a superintendent. I have one district affecting students. Let's affect all students around the world. You have that ability, you have that knowledge. And to me, that's the foundation. That's where it starts. And when people say, if you're a non-education person, because a lot of people say, well, a lot of developers that develop EdTech tools, say, parent with a teacher, or This was my experience in school and those kinds of things, I would just say you have, in order to look at the equity of what you're developing, you have to spend time in a classroom and before you put your product to market. To me, education is, I hate to say this, I struggled with this as a founder, but I didn't feel comfortable where everybody say, you get the ugly baby out, you develop a partial product and then you start to sell it, you get more sales, you get, well, to me, we need to stop experimenting with children.

(24:19):

And so mine was not experimenting, but meaning that if I would've put my product out, and it was a product that carried weight, that helped people know what they need to do, they believed in my product that based off this intervention that is suggesting this is what they're going to do to a student, and it wasn't really to the level of accuracy that it should, that's inappropriate. And so we did a lot of testing, a lot of pilots, a lot of small groups. We hammered the research behind it and the research behind it and actually put it out there not making these claims, false claims that it does this, that and the other. Until we were sure that based on our data, that it's really ready to sell as a tool to impact students and a variety of students, not just one student, not just one group of students, but a variety of students. Anyone that picks up our tools and we feel that we're there. I

DaNadia Johnson (25:21):

Love that you are. Yeah,

Holly Owens (25:23):

I think that's

DaNadia Johnson (25:24):

Really great advice is spend time in a classroom. I think so many times, and I think sometimes teachers felt that way about admin or people at the district. It was like, come in my classroom for a week and help me and see what I'm experimenting, or I'm not experimenting but experiencing. So I think that's really big. And I think we hear so many stories from CEOs about how their journey led them here, and those stories are very interesting. But I think that it's a good point that you got to get in schools, you got to talk to teachers, you got to see what's really happening in the classroom, because sometimes I think people are building tools that they think are solving problems, but in reality really are not.

(26:11):

And so I think that is such a good takeaway, such a good takeaway. So we're coming up on the end of the episode, so want to make sure that we didn't miss anything, that we didn't miss anything that you wanted to share. And then looking ahead, our end question is what do you think the next big breakthrough within EdTech is going to be? Where do you think the future of ed tech is going to lie? How is education going to look in the future? So let me repeat. The two questions are what did we miss and where do you see the future of ed tech or education going?

Dr. Phil (27:01):

No, those are good questions. The one thing I think we missed is the spelling of Plabook because everybody has, they hammer me, they say, you have a reading technology and you spell Plabook. PLA, capital BOOK. And so

(27:20):

The reason is is because it's a multisyllabic word. So the vowel can scream its name, so it actually fits right in. It shows you how complex our English language is. So Plabook is spelled P-L-A-B-O-O-K without the Y because it's a multi-syllabic word. And so that's important. Our website is www.Plabookeducation.com. Now, where is education ed tech headed and what will be? So I really think that we really have to look at mixed reality, mixed reality or augmented reality. We're not ready for virtual reality to where you are in a school or something and you totally cannot see your environment. It's kind of unsafe, but mixed reality, augmented reality where you have on lenses or glasses that you could still see your environment and it still brings things to life.

(28:20):

I think that's going to be huge. And I also, I don't know where the brick and mortar is going to go or the level or the quality of teacher you're going to have. There's national teacher shortage is not anything to play with. Meaning that it's not that we just have a shortage of teachers. There are colleges of education that are closing their doors because they don't have enough applicants. So the way that you close that gap is, Hey, I have a school that is teaching needs a strong algebra teacher. Well, I, I'm in Michigan, but I know an algebra teacher in California that's teaching in the class. How come our students cannot join that class and have see their environment and manipulate the same things? And those kind, I mean, that's where we're going to have to be, right? Because all students deserve a high quality educator.

(29:15):

How long should a student wait if they're receiving poor instruction? They only have one time at third grade or one time at fourth grade. And so let's put an individual in front of them and also the environment and also for them to be and manipulate things. And let's hit all the modalities of learning in that process because that's what we have to compete with. Once a student leaves this classroom, they're plugged into everything, but when they come to the classroom, they have to unplug. And so whether it's still in brick and mortar and we're able to still have students and be involved in a learning environment that they transcend their state or their city even from a counseling standpoint or whether they're at home, if they're at home, and then they're still able to be engaged in a classroom or in a learning environment with a high quality teacher. So I think mixed reality and ar, augmented reality is going to be huge in ed tech.

Holly Owens (30:16):

I love it. I can't wait. I can't wait. And I love it how you said, why can't they just come into another classroom? Especially with the shortage, it's like that makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense to collaborate and partner with each other. Absolutely.

Dr. Phil (30:36):

Because they really

DaNadia Johnson (30:37):

Have 180 days.

Holly Owens (30:40):

Yeah.

Dr. Phil (30:41):

Yeah, you're right. But what if there's an algorithm that actually can choose what teachers write for that child? So it actually has a profile to the sample of all the students in the world that interacted with this teacher. And hey, it may be that every male that was hyperactive and had this deficit is right for that teacher. And we put it, I mean, even Alexa, I prefer, it's almost like a British sounding female voice.

Holly Owens (31:15):

But guess what? I listen better when she's Talking to me. You hear me?

Dr. Phil (31:20):

If I can, I always change

DaNadia Johnson (31:21):

It.

Dr. Phil (31:22):

If I can, What voice is coming out of my speaker, then surely I can choose what person I want to learn from or I can be suggested the top people that fit my learning style.

DaNadia Johnson (31:37):

Yeah.

Holly Owens (31:37):

Oh my gosh, I love it.

DaNadia Johnson (31:39):

That would be cool to see in the future for real. Yeah,

Holly Owens (31:43):

Absolutely. Well, Dr. Phil, we can't thank you enough for coming on at Ed Tech and talking about Plabook and your experiences and sharing everything with our audience and us. It's been a true pleasure having you on the show.

Dr. Phil (31:56):

This was enjoyable. I really appreciate it.

Holly Owens (31:58):

Yeah. Well, we're definitely going to have you back for follow up. And where are they now? You're going to get a little follow up email once we end here, but thank you so much.

Dr. Phil (32:09):

Cool. I really appreciate it. Thank you.