S2E3-'CANCEL CULTURE CLUB' (You Come And Go)

0:03 I get you be that funny all the time. Oh, Hi, Hi, Harry. At all the things we talk about when people don't know what the record buttons on? When did they get here? Who invited these people? All these thousands of people like. Good nights, hundreds of thousands at least. Oh? Sorry, Yes, how are you? I'm good? Good? What are we talking about this week? Gary? So we're not taking a deep dive. It's more like a. We're gonna toe in the water. Yeah, toe in the water. We're gonna go in the kiddy cool shallow shallow end because we're so good at it. Talking about cancel culture. It's been around for a while, and I'll tell you why. I what prompted me to want to talk about that. Okay, so when we come back, we'll do that, and then you know, obviously catch up on what's going on. I got a couple updates.

0:53 You know, do so many things. Okay, we'll be right back because otherwise this intro will go turn into an outro and who knows what we're gonna do. Troe Right, We'll be right back. Hi, welcome back. Welcome to don and Gary doing sixty. I'm Ivanna Donut and you are Okay.

1:41 You're gonna love this one. I came, I came across a whole list of them. I'm Dixie enormous. Oh my goodness, the depth to what we will. Go holiday season. So welcome to Don and Gary doing sixty. We're here to unwrap and unpack navigating the world at our age. This age, whatever age, whatever. You can find us an Apple Podcasts in Spotify wherever amazing podcasts are found. We're on Instagram at Donn and Gary Doing sixty. We're on Facebook at Dona Gary in sixty.

2:22 We're on YouTube at Donengary doing sixty. And if you want to really see everything well bathing within Reason, watch us on YouTube at Donn and Gary Doing sixty. So, Gary, what's going on? I feel like I haven't talked to you for a long time. I guess we haven't. Well, I mean we've spoke. It's been busy. It's been busy. So three days ago, yes, marked six months that I started on a epich. Wow, that's time's going by very first. Yeah, it's got my real fast. I started June one, and then in fact today I went to my Endverknology just office. Easy for me to say, I had it, you know, and she said, I'm their star patient.

3:07 Oh don't you want that being the star pupil all the time, because I remember you've always a student, always have showing up, getting stars and everything like that. So why I just wondering as I walked out of the office, did they say that to all their patients? So why were you the star pupil? Well, because my numbers are good. I mean to date, i've lost you know, give her take thirty five pounds. Wow, that's so cool, that's that's amazing. How are you if you feel good? I'm sure you yeah, yeah, no, I feel good. I just told her, and I feeling a patient. I go, that's it in six months. She's like there, No, the low and slow method is much easier because you're more likely to keep the weight off. Yes, as opposed to someone who has like, oh, I lost twenty five pounds in two weeks, and it's like that's not good for your system and that's not going to last.

3:52 And actually you're doing it, and we as we said before, you're doing it the smart, educated way and that might not be everything you want right away, but as you said, you're building new habits and all kinds of new kinds of routines for your life, right, So yeah, that doesn't just change over night. But I'm sorry, go ahead, yes. No, So everything's good, and that I don't have to see them again for another five months, so I'll just keep on keeping on and i'll see them in May. So quick question, do you have a goal in mind weight wise? Or is this you're going to see how this? No, because it's hard to depend on what I want to weigh X number pounds. It's hard to say, right, I could get to this weight, like, you know what, I feel good right here as opposed to that weight, right, So I told her, In fact, I asked her, so, I don't know what that number is. But when I get to a certain point, what happens Because I'm on the maximum dosage right now two point zero milligrams once a week, what happens when I get to my goal weight?

4:55 Does the dosage drop? And then it's just for maintenance And it will vary from person to person, right, So you know, some people may stay at the same dosage and some may lower. So in five months we'll see where I'm at and then kind of you really have to cater to each person and they're just absolutely absolutely Yeah. So I meet again with the nutritionists in like March, I think, so, you know, just keep up with what I'm doing. And then she did take me off one of the prescribe medications that I was on good, which she said actually that one if by not taking that, I might be easier to lose a little bit more weight because it's called glipizide and one of the side effects is that it may cause you to prevent you from dropping weight.

5:45 Huh okay, So anyway, so yeah, so LP one is it that's not one of the products that are part of ozembic. Right, No, No, it's it's it's it's one that makes the pancreas create something, you know. You know, I'm not a juices Yes. Great juices, and maybe I don't need that many juices and everything real, So so that's all going well. And then the other thing that was kind of fun that happened in the last couple of weeks was that one of my nephews and his wife had their first baby. So now my mom has her second great grandchild.

6:26 Wow unfoar shely. They live in southern California, so I don't know how soon we'll be able to see them in person. But yeah, so the Pagari's name will live on the head of boy, so one more generation at least with our name. That's great, that's excellent. Then you know, this episode is probably not going to drop until we've got so many in the can if you're ready to go, oh yeah, let's let's jump. I got into because once you, once you came up with this idea for the segment, I was like, wow, there's a lot of people I forgot about this. I'm sorry. Well, there's a couple of reasons why I thought of cancel culture and coming out of this part of it is Hollywood, obviously, that's where a lot of it comes from. But there's also this need to as soon as someone says or does something, they get written off. And a lot of it is because it's everything is on social media or in the news and everybody has to comment on it. But coming out of the election, had it gone the other way and Kama had won, they'd asked her would you include a Republican in your cabinet? And she said yes, So I thought maybe Liz Chaney whatever.

7:33 But it made me think of the old days when we were young, when there's always been Republican Democrat, but they actually would cross the aisle and try and resolve something to make it a win win. You know, you vote this way, I vote that way. But there's just something we can do to come to a understanding where we can pass this new law or whatever that it's done. Everybody right, I guess it'thing's done, and that hasn't happened a long time, and the fault of both sides right, So obviously that didn't happen. So then when Trump won, Now I don't watch this show Morning Joe on MSNBC with Joe Scarborough and meetup Prazinski, so I don't know what they're I don't watch the show. I don't know any about the politics. But when he won, apparently they went to mar A Lago and interviewed him. And again I didn't do a deep dive on this, so you know, maybe I'm just speaking naively, but everyone and their mother had something negative to say about them for going to talk to him. Every talk show, all these pundits, their viewership dropped. All their viewers were like, how could you?

8:48 And I think you wait a minute. So if he won he's the president, you know, Okay, maybe you don't agree with his policies or whatever, but why not cross the aisle and have a conversation. I didn't see the interview. I don't know how it went. And again maybe I'm just speaking, you know, incoherently, but did you hear anything about that or what's no? But it's on the same topic. I was just thinking, because this is a question that I started asking, So is cancel culture based on actions or just popular opinion? Because it could be the headline from Morning Joe that just people just decided, as you said, without breaking, without crossing the aisle, without anything. So I'm wondering, like, have we taken a new turn where it's just easier to say no and shut the door and not even consider anything on both sides, on any side?

9:45 Right, all right? Right? So, I mean I did do a little checking on cancel culture. So it says the cultural phenomenon in which an individual thought to have acted or spoken in an unacceptable manner is ostracized, boycotted, shunned, fired, or assaulted, often aided by social media. So this started popping up, bubbling up around twenty seventeen and since then of course, social media's blown up and everyone's got their phone, so everything gets recorded, and you know, the whole Karen and whatever, the male version of Karen had come up where people behaving badly, someone films them, it goes on social media, they get identified, they get fired by their company yep, or ostracized by their friends, and it's just this immediate like, yes, they were acting badly. Now do they always act like that?

10:39 Do they always say things like that? Or is this just they had a bad day? Right? You know. So that's one part of it. And then there's the on the Hollywood side, there's people who have been accused of sexual misconduct, a lot of that, right, and it's the Space's and the Matt Lowers, Charlie Rose. There's a whole list of people who were in the news or in Hollywood who got accused. Chris Notath. There was all these allegations, but in most of those cases, no one ever got charged with anything. Yes, I know that, like Kevin's Spacey there were some court dates, but he never got accused of anything.

11:24 And that's interesting because also just the fact that that's hanging as a cloud over their heads, people make a decision to your point, and they cancel, but they also damaged. There's a lot of toxicity in this whole canceling because it's based on something they've heard. As you said, as I looked into it toose, Kevin Spacey had not been convicted of anything. He had court dates to show and appear, but he was never truly convicted. And he also has made some public apologies about his behavior being unacceptable. He wouldn't do it again. He was probably on the influence of alcohol, whatever it might have been. So he has made, you know, some kind of acknowledgment of this issue. But the challenge is now his career. He can't get a movie.

12:07 No one's going to hire him just because of something that has happened in the past. And you know, with this social media now, it lasts forever. So it'll be interesting to see if people can come out of these these situations. There are a few that they were blacklisted or you know, boycotted for a short amount of time and then they came back. One of them I got to follow him on his podcast. But Joe Rogan, yep, oh god, she's bad. During the pandemic, he was, I guess saying a lot of things against the injection that the vaccination and so on, and so because of he's on Spotify, I guess whatever platform his podcast is on. A musical artists said if you're going to keep him on that, you need to take music off, right, And then so it was just because they didn't believe in his politics. So they blamed the platform, said you need to do something about this.

13:10 But he was one of their biggest money makers. And well he's come out. Of that, one of the biggest podcast there is and one of the biggest moneymakers there is. So he also think about the demographic there, mostly white males, and I've looked into that because he is the like the light leading I think, one of the leading podcasters out there in the country right now. Yeah, he has a lot of influence. And yeah, he did come out of it. And I think I was thinking about something too. Remember the Dixie. Chicks, Oh yeah, chicks. Well, they had a bad run for a long time because of their mention the disparaging comments about President Bush at the time, right right, and they went crashing down, but they did. Yes, it was toxic, as we said before, but they've come back as the Chicks and they're still doing quite well. I've always loved their music, yeah, yeah, and it never changed my opinion. You know, I had an opinion of President Bush at the time too, and I didn't go on stage and talk about it, but you know, there is something to be said for how it has put the brakes on a lot of people's comments too. And when I think about that, I'm thinking about stand up comedians Kathy Griffin.

14:22 Yes, Kathy, when she did the thing with the I mean that that was not good. She's been known for being quite you know, intense, you know with her comments, and she did that and I think she's paying the price for that too. She's always been the type that would, you know, try and suck up to someone and then in her routine she would not backsat them, but she'd criticize them right and make fun of them, because that's that's her thing. That thing with the whole Trump head or whatever, that was obviously way over the top, and that's what, you know, kind of ended it for a while and she's had to scratch her way. Back and she's still scratching. I think she's still you know, she's been on I actually listened to her on a couple of podcasts, one of them with I forget their name, but she was talking about how difficult the climb back has been and also has affected her health. She's been through a lot of things health wise, and.

15:18 Yeah, she cancer or something, so yeah, that was on top of all that, and who knows how which was related. I'm thinking of black Roseanne bar totally had been super popular on TV and it's a stand up and then she made that one comment about Valor Jarrett immediately got canceled and then they killed her off on her reboot of roseannem. Well, okay, what about JK. Rowlings who is baking disparaging comments about transgender communities. But here's the thing. She still is a billionaire. She still has her money. I think that she's also still pontificating whatever she's talking about with her opinion. So she'll have detractors, but she'll also have supporters, and I think that's going to be interesting to see.

16:05 So I actually thought of something while we're talking about Kathy Griffin. If Joan Rivers was still alive right now, where do you think would she fall in the middle too? Because she also said a lot of saucy stuff, and I know Kathy Griffin was emulating a lot of Joan Rivers' bodiness and outspoken candor about certain Yeah. I mean, but did she she got very close to crossing the line. Mm hmm. I mean she would make the same jokes a lot of people were thinking or saying on the you know, off stage. But I don't know. I mean, there's a different time exactly how many years ago, right, So maybe it was kind of she missed the whole cancel. I think she passed away before the cancel culture agreed.

16:47 And I just wonder if people are hiding behind canceling people like we started to talk about without giving any thought to this and actually having their own opinion. If you like the Ditsie Chicks and all of a sudden say something disparaging. That's again my discussion, like my question about separating the art from the artist. Yeah, so you're you're a musical artist and you make music, but you have this opinion. Does that mean that your music's no good anymore? And I hate it? No, it just means you said something I don't agree with. Yeah, Woody Allen, I used to love Woody Allen movies. He's made some, he's had some allegations now. A lot of allegations, but again never convicted.

17:27 Of anything correct. And also, you know, he made some decisions where his uh with his stepdaughter and marrying that person and you know, sorry it's not as adopted daughter. Yeah, but you know, made some decisions. Obviously people have an opinion about I still love his movies. Yeah, it doesn't make them very often, if at all anymore. But yeah, it might be a net result from this cancelation that's taking place. And also plus he's older too, so maybe I mean it's more challenging. But no, yeah, I agree. I mean I liked I didn't see all of this movies, but I didn't were the ones that I saw. And yeah, not a big fan of him marrying his stepdaughter whatever. No, I think I guess adopted daughter. I don't think it's.

18:09 Well Mia Farrow adopted her. Oh yeah, were never married technically get stepdaughter, but technically yeah. Do you remember the fallout from the Goya Foods Do you remember that I have that on my list's see, I bet we have a lot of the same things. Well, because it's where the politics of it comes into it, because the CEO of Goya Foods as well as the guy Mike from the My Pillow, Mike Lindell. I forgot about him both, would you know, During the first time that Trump ran, they would go and speak on his behalf and suddenly those two companies got written off and boycott it in.

18:51 And they're I mean he had the Pillow guy had a major company like that, was a massive million, multimillion dollar company for a long time. Goya is a food, so they actually but I think the challenge was that the CEO for Goya was speaking in favor of Trump at the time, but also considering that most of the Goya products are beans, the different things that actually cater to the Mexican American population, They're wondering, like, how can you support a guy who wants to build a wall in Mexico exactly So, but I think, you know, honestly, Goya is still around. They're still pumping out the beans. And then you have certain celebrities, be it sports, acting, singing, who may not want to voice their political views because if they say I voted for Trump, suddenly they get you know, well, yeah, because that's so anti Hollywood.

19:49 And that's why I'm talking about the stand up comedians because I know a lot of people have a comment who are saying, you know, who is the guy that got slapped by Will Smith? Chris Rock. Chris Rock is saying that it's basically put the harness over stand up comedians now, because and I've heard this a number of times too, because I listened to Matteo Lane and to a bunch of different other people who speak about how they say, you know, they can only say certain things, or they have they feel like they have braces on because they can't step across that line. But the context is you're in a comedy club. It should be fair rain to talk about whatever you want to because it's a joke. It's it's a comedy club. It's for adults. Don't bring your kids, and if you're easily offended, then don't go. Yeah, and you know, did you ever see Lisa Lampanelli.

20:38 Oh? I remember her. God, she was like a I saw. Her once years ago. Probably, I don't know if it's before the I think it's probably. I'm sure before that. It's still around, right. She Well, she's not doing stand up anymore. Oh, okay, there. Was when I saw her. She's here in San Francisco and I didn't know her material at all, but she basically slayed every ethnic group left and right, who was horrifying. But it was so funny. I mean, you have to laugh at it, right, So yes, it was the funniest thing I've ever seen, and like, I can't believe I'm laughing at this, but she said it right, and because that's the arena. The text of that, and people know her for that, right, crowd work, right, Like Don Rickles, Yeah, same kind of thing.

21:25 Maybe he insects, right. He did some ethnic but it was just more insults to other people. Joan Rivers would a lot of times insult herself. Yes, she would obviously criticize other celebrities, but you know, but but I don't think either one of them went political per se. It was more about jazz, right, but but what's your name? Lisa Lampanelli. More recently, she was I think she was about to retire, and she did some comedy, some stand up routine somewhere that was filmed, and I don't know if there are people heckling her. I don't know what happened. And she did not have a good day, and she in fact that she yelled back at the people, and then she got so pissed off she just left the stage. Oh and that was the last time you saw her as a stand up comedian.

22:20 So it's not a good way to end her. Well, maybe she was fed up with the you know, I mean, obviously it was fed up with whatever they were heckling her about, right, right, right, But you know, maybe she'd also seen the fact that she couldn't do this a lot longer. Yeah, I think it got your point. Where Again, because of social media and everyone having a phone right there, everything is immediate, so if you say something that someone didn't agree with, it gets shared with everyone right away. Well, I mean, and sometimes I mean, I hate to say it's not I don't believe cancelation or canceling somebody is warranted. But some people do bad things. And what comes to mind is like Bill Cosby, Right, he did what he had allegations, and I don't actually he did serve some prison time, yeah he did, and then he came out, but you know, basically he'll he'll not work again, I don't believe. And he was trying to read and think, like do a little bit of research about where he is today. But he's recently come out of prison a few years ago, and he was even talking about possibly doing a circuit of a show, and I think, I don't know if that's going to fly.

23:24 I'm sure people would still pay to go see him. M hmm. I think Harvey Win seeing the same thing. I mean, well, he I don't know how long he's in prison, I believe, yes, yes, I don't know how long he's awaiting trial or sentencing, I forget. But if he comes out of this, I mean, well, when he's older. But is he going to be making movies again? I don't think so. What about Jesse Smollett, remember him, right? Yes? So he'd been made some bad choices too, but also went very public about them and then was caught kind of red handed in a lie, as they said. And I don't know if they proved that or not. But what made it worse is that he stuck to his story, yeah, even though people are coming out saying, no, that didn't happen and I was there and I saw this, and you didn't do that and yeah.

24:11 So so have you ever canceled anybody though, because I mean, have you thought like I mean, I don't think I've ever like literally, I said, Okay, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna watch them anymore. I'm not gonna listen to them anymore. I'm not gonna listen to that. Well. I mean, there's certain if you're trying to like celebrity, there's certain actors or singers. If I don't like them, I'm not gonna go see their movies. I'm not right. So I don't know if that's you know, canceling or boycotting. It was like, like, I don't find him very funny, I don't find her very you know whatever, So I just won't that's not my taste. But it's just not gonna go see. But I guess I'm asking because I'm thinking probably you and I both never gone out publicly made some statement on social media. I hate them. I'm never going to follow them again. They are wrong for the country, or whatever your opinion is. It seems like people take that extra step to make sure that everyone supposedly needs to be heard. It's like nobody needs to know whether you follow something or not. Who cares?

25:06 Are your friend? To the celebrities that moved out of the country when Trump won, like Ellen Degenerous and others, threatened to do it. I haven't done it, and are they going to do it? I don't know. There's all kinds of go back to social media, but there's all the kind of implications about why they're actually moving P Diddy. It all comes to p Diddy DooDah again. Well he's got ties to everyone, so he can bring the whole house down. It'll be maybe who knows. But again it's like, you know, like you're saying Ellen has decided, and you know she was. She went through her own mill of stuff with her, the implications or the allegations about her being the way she was allegedly on her show, and she was canceled, and she even made us special about it, coming back saying, you know she's been canceled from television two or three times now. Yeah, so maybe she's done. I don't know.

25:58 Well, she the special that she made for Netflix that I think is still on now. She says, yeah, you'll you'll never see her do stand up, probably won't do movies. So they moved to England, I think, And I was like, okay. I've decided to purchase her home in Santa Barbara or mend I think not Mendosino. Well, I'm going to buy it. So Montecito, Montecito, that's it. I knew. I knew that's what it was. Do her bathrooms have to be redone? Hopefully not. So we talked about cancel culture of individuals. Yes, but there's also companies, so there's a shortlist. So when bud Light did their deal with transgender influencer Dylan mulvaney, that did not go over well at all and that that was a black eye on them. Heineken beer.

26:55 Do you think that they really lost people drinking their beer? I think there was a protest against it. If it because prolonged, I don't know, Okay, I think it probably did for a short time. Yeah. The one that was Dove Soap was like Dove Soap, who's gonna band that, Who's gonna boycot them? Apparently they did some ads where there's people who were, you know, taking the shirt off to get to bathe and use dev soap, and the way some were edited it started as an African American woman who was about to bathe, and then at the end it was a white woman. So the insinuation was that she got, you know, she cleaned off her blackness, I guess, and that I don't remember that, but I'm reading up on this. And then when it was all the name products that had been around forever and maima syrup, Oh yes, missus Butterworth of pancake wicks.

28:04 So aunt Jemima. It was a family owned company. I guess their relative was Jemima and she made so they named in honor of her. And then oh, well that's just not appropriate, this is a racist name whatever. So but the family is like, no, we want to keep it, and they had to change it. Yeah, right, Uh. And then was it traded. Jos had certain products that they had to either take off the shelf or change the names of certain things because the products the product names were not appropriate because some group decided that, well, that's that's shame on you.

28:47 The danger and the double edged sword that this this cancelation or this cancel culture carries because the people can ruin people's lives right by making a decision that should be their own decision, not something that has to be pontificated about. I know we're using a lot of big words, but it's like, that's what I'm saying. Do you really need to tell me that you don't follow or you don't like the picture of Antemima on Syrup, even though it's a family owned company and they supported it. I kind of get it because that's a little bit about appropriation and a little bit more about the stereotypical figure that she shows as a bottle and all those things. So I kind of get that SNX, But I don't have to go on the Internet or onto the social media and say I do this, And I just wonder, is this ego driven? Is this our own egos driving this?

29:37 I don't know it. Everyone just seems so overly sensitive. Yes, I don't know if it's still going on at the same level because I don't, or maybe we're just gotten so used to it that it just becomes. I think it's getting a little passe. I think that it's kind of run. I'm gonna the reason why I say that because I was doing some Google today and looking at like cancel culture twenty twenty four, and the articles were a little bit more on like what shows were canceled for twenty twenty four, not so much the cancelation because of people's popular opinions based on a headline, and. Maybe there's no one else to cancel. Everyone's been canceled, so there's no one left.

30:19 I haven't canceled you yet, and you haven't canceled me yet, but you know, there's always time. Yeah, I'm just saying I think maybe hopefully it's run its course, because I think it's a very negative, toxic tool, you know. And it's like, okay, and I go back to people's egos and like, Okay, I get it. You do you really need to be heard that badly that you would go to the point of making a statement that you might change your mind about or forget about the public's fickle, they forget about stuff. And I think, I like, maybe maybe I'm too naive or my approach is not the right for me. It's like if something or someone offends me, you know, from the ad they put in whatever, it's like I'm like, okay, we'll change a channel, or I I don't watch it.

31:05 I don't put effort into Well, I need to I need to write the president of the company and voice my opinion. Right, I need to record something on social media and tell people why they shouldn't buy this product or follow that singer. You know, people just want to see that they've said something and how many likes they're getting for it. There's that too. You know, people want to see that people like their opinion, so their thumbs up or thumbs down. You know how that works On all the social media's people can like or not like your opinion. Yeah, but you also see people going down like rabbit holes and spirals statements of something. I know it's maybe not cancel culture, but if someone makes a statement about something all of a sudden turns political and then the rant turns completely left turn or right turn.

31:49 Yeah, it's like the article was about this, and yet down here it's now it's personal insults to each other. And it can go on. It's like those car chases in LA that they put on the helicopters. It's like it goes on and on, and it's like, wait a minute, we were talking about Britney shoes, shoes, Britney spears shoes a minute ago. Now we're talking about something completely different because two people are going at it and then everyone else has an opinion. I don't get it. I don't know that. We don't get that anymore. I don't they bring togs into it. Well, she must have voted for him, Who's going she must have done this? Who has not the time to go down every single Instagram fad. Or talk about a rabbit hole? Yeah, oh my gosh.

32:29 Some people got to find a hobby. That ain't that I think. I I don't engage with people online, but when I was on Twitter years ago, someone who made a comment here in San Francisco about, you know, the mayor or the supervisor, they need to do something because the streets are too dirty blah blah blah my name with blah blah blah. That's a common and and I made this suggestion unwisely, then maybe he should pick up a broom or something. The howd that go over? And he didn't like that, and you know, he told me he set something back to me. I said, well, listen, I've I've been volunteering for the fire department for fifteen years and the police department for you and my neighbored association, you know, for all these years. So I don't really have time to go clean your neighborhood. But you know what, they would love someone with your enthusiasm and your energy too.

33:22 So I tried to turn into a positive and then I just left it I'm like, I'm not further engaging in this, and you know what. I kind of I kind of I'm with you on that because I don't comment almost at all about that. I might say oh that, you know, I'll say something, oh, that's a beautiful piece of art, or I love that kind of stuff where you're saying, okay, but you're right. If you have an opinion, you're opening yourself up to a lot of retribution. It's like, wait a minute, people, get off the freaking internet, Go take a walk, Go look at a bird. It's like, get some air, get some take a breath, mama, get out of get out of the house, and get off your freaking phone. These steps have be done today.

34:03 I don't mean steps against like you know, never mind. Sorry, yeah, so yeah, I mean it is it's cultural right now, and I don't know. I don't know if there's an answer, hopefully. I don't know where it's going and how much people pay attention to it. I've I've I think because it's been around so long, I just kind of tune it out, you know. Okay, So here's I've got a couple more for you. Might they might be on your list. George Michael. Remember George Michael had a he went down, so I don't know if he was ever canceled, but he was caught with the lute lascivious behavior right right, right, and he might have done it, but he came back and he did his thing. Yeah, And also is thinking about Paul Rubins or pee Wee Hermann, right, who you know had some I don't he was. I'm sure he was canceled in some places, but people loved the pee Wee Herman characters so much, right that they they I think they forgave him and he kep back and did quite a few movies after that before he passed away too. Lizzo, Yeah, she's actually she's calmed down the two, but she had She came out a lot talking about body positivity and all these other things, which he was a very strong.

35:13 But she's been very quiet. She still she had allegations of sexual misconduct and being inappropriate to people and making kind of architary comments about them, her dancers and things being right certain sizes like really girl, no? Yeah, so right, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I'm trying. Who else is The interesting one is like I go back and I mentioned before Chris Note, who obviously known for Law and Order and then mister Big Sex and the City. And then he was also at the same time that he's doing the newest Sex and City show, he was on a show with Queen Latifa that's a remake of a previous cop show called The Equalizer. I think. Okay, she was the lead and he was on the show.

36:04 I'd never watched it, but he was on it. But he got accused of, you know, sexual misconduct with a few women, and then suddenly he got dropped by his agent canceled off both shows. But it's interesting on the Sex and the City, he did the first two movies right, and had they done the third movie, which is the one they end up not doing, the storyline for him was going to be exactly what happened on and just like that where he died of a heart attack. That was that story idea was already there, interesting and so they'd already filmed that. The intent was to have him come back for like flashbacks or dream sequence or whatever, so he would still be in this just like that, at least the first season for Carrie through the rest of the season. But once he died and all these allegations came out. Then they did not use if they filmed anything else, they didn't use it. But people thought, oh, he got killed off the show. It's like, well he was already that was already in the works. But the fact that the three ladies on the show, you know, came out and said they support the victims. You know, you want to be PC and so everyone basically turned their back on him. But again, one of the people that never got convicted or never went to court. I don't know if he did out of court settlements.

37:23 I don't know the court of popular opinion unfortunately, right, And you know, there's still people that I think as many detractors as are, there are still those people that support a lot of these people, right. You know, I think Kevin Spacey's an incredible actor. He's done some incredible film and he's he did a couple of great series and he was excellent. He is an excellent actor. You know, people have gone through worse and come back, so you never know, these people might, you know, circle back once they've had other people that had time to throw the blame at somebody else. You know, one little tidbit I read about him, is that so I guess he's moved to Europe. Oh really, and you know, trying to you know, get some work.

38:04 And so at the same time, another person said was canceled. I don't know if she's officially canceled, but has always had a very bad reputation in Hollywood, has Fay done Away? Yeah, and so she apparently at the age of eighty one. I don't know, she's in her eighties. But when she was eighty one, she was about to start a stage production in Boston and something happened and she I think she got she got fired, allegedly slapped someone on the crew. I don't know what. So then she got kind of like blacklisted. So then the two of them, Kevin Spacey and pay Dunaway, ended up making a movie together in Italy. Really, I guess, you know in the recently. But and the person who wrote the article says, well, interesting, both are Academy Award winning actors and you would think this would be great because Biddle problem never see the light of day in the US.

39:01 That is crazy. Now, I know she's had a reputation for being difficult, and she actually did have an HBO documentary I made recently for about her life, I believe. Well I didn't see it out of HBO, but I did hear about it. Yes, yes, do you have HBO? Not anymore? I okay, I have. I met her once when I used to work, Yes, when I worked on Rodeo Drive back in the day, and I was a very important shop girl on Rodeo Drive at Tommy hillfigure at a Brands store. She actually came in and I you know, she's very recognizable. You know, if you know anything about actors in movies, you would recognize them. And she came and said, how do you do. My name's Faydnaway and blah blah blah. She actually had introduced herself. She's, you know, from the old school of Hollywood. So, I mean it was it's interesting to meet her. She was very nice. She was very pleasant, and I mean I helped her find something for her niece or nephew or something.

39:57 But very nice, very nice woman. Of course, you know, she's not gonna slap me if I didn't have the right pair of jeans for something. Well, you never know. Well, but again, you know, I think who knows, who knows where all this stuff comes from. I just think it's it can be very damaging, and I hope that as a as a society we might let go of it. I don't know that people ever let go of anything. They keep it in their back pocket. It just seems like, I know, well, you do a lot of things, and you don't make me tell that story again. Yeah, so there's you know, throwing that out named Sharon Osborne was on.

40:39 The Talk Gosh, yeah. And something came up. I guess you're talking about Pierce Morgan. Something he said or did that people most people, a lot of people do not agree with. And she's friends with him and she was defending him, and that turned into some uncomfortable conversation where she ended up whether she was forced out or left on her own. She was no longer on the Talk. Okay, this was several years ago, but yeah, it's like it just happens, just like immediately. What about James Cordon, who had he was He was canceled basically for playing a gay guy in one of those musicals that were done on HBO two. I forget what it was. I think that was part of the reason.

41:22 It's like, well, why is he playing supposedly, you know, heterosexual and he played this gay character, and he was kind of canceled by the gay community because playing that. So yeah, I mean I saw his name, but I didn't, you know, there was almost. Karaoke in the car with people, I believe. Yeah, yeah, because he. Had a late night talk show and I rarely saw it because on late at night, but i'd see things on YouTube clips of it, and yeah, that was one of his things where he'd do the karaoke car and I thought he was very popular, very funny. But I don't know the controversy, but he knew that part of him maybe as a result of the pandemic. He did say at one point that he missed his family. So the plan was he was not going to renew his contract.

42:05 He was going to move back to the UK, but that was just for personal reasons. So how maybe this all just came at the right time or at the same time. So anyway, Yeah, so I don't know where this ends, how far it'll go. Hopefully it'll lose some steam. I hope. So I think it has. Again, it's like again, separate the art or whatever it is that they create that they do from the statement that they made. Everyone said something dumb that they regret I understand actions are different, so you can make a decision based on their action, but remember the body of what they did is probably something good that you liked at one time. Because they said something. You say something all the time that I don't like. I haven't canceled you yet.

42:54 That I know of. And it's not always the words for actions of that. And what came to mind, you though, I didn't write it down on this, but I thought of when Trump was president, the first time members of his cabinet and staff would be ostracized, criticized, whatever. So the incident I recall hearing about was Sarah Huckabee, who was this press secretary, so you know, the face of the president in front of the press, right, she would be at the podium. She was out with her family at a restaurant, and some people that didn't agree with his politics, you know, made it uncomfortable for her, like she's just having dinner with her family, right, And she didn't say it, but she gets the brunt of it, right.

43:42 And there's other instances, right and and but that's when that came to mind. And you know, it's just by guilt by association or cancelation by association. Uhha, that's is that the title of the episode? Now, yeah, by association, you're canceled. That's right. So I think, you know, honestly, I think we we've circled around a bit. I mean we we did note a lot of people that were in the big popular side of the world, but who knows how many other people just you know, on a different level. It has an Instagram page and they say they like, you know, the Mona Lisa. Well, I hate the Mona Lisa, So I'm gonna I'm gonna cancel you and we're not gonna follow you. And then they start, you know, I mean, who knows where this is going?

44:24 Right? So yeah, I don't know where it's going. I hope it just goes away at some point. It never will though. Let's cancel cancelations. I'm canceling. Cancel culture. I've got it. That's okay, that's a good one. I like that. What's that? Cancel Cancel culture? Yes, cancel cancel Culture, Cancel, cancel, cancel Culture. Don't cancel culture. Club, Comma Kama comic, kind of coma Chamelion. Okay, I think that's we did it. Okay, let's let's let's close this down. Get because you know, Don, I'll tewn before you. I'm trying to think now karma, karma, chameleon, I'll tumble for you. Do you really want to hurt me?

45:11 Right? Cancel Culture Club? Do you really want to hurt me? Okay, I think we've done it. You've got to close us out. Now take us out, take us out. So on that note, before you cancel us, we're going to say goodbye, thank you for joining us. We probably won't see you again until after the New year because we have how many episodes are in the hopper in the county. I'm so excited though, because, like I said, by the time this comes out, you will already have seen and heard all of these because we have four in the hopper in the can ready to go and explode onto the internet. So an other words, happy New Year everyone. So, as Don said in the beginning, you know where to find us where your favorite podcasts are. Also on YouTube so you can actually see us see these puns. You can live, you can subscribe, you can comments, you can email us Don and Gary doing sixty at gmail dot com. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook and where else can.

46:17 They find us? That's it, there was. Yeah, you don't need to know where we live. No, because we'll have to cancel it, right No, okay, So anyway, that was a good one, Gary, Thank you, Oh, thank you, Pared, I must say. Well, it's good to do the homework. Oh did I tell you? I'm going to see Share tonight? Not in concert though, really she is doing a Q and A at the Golden Gate Theater in three hours because she wrote part one of her autobiography. Oh and we each get a book. No way, So.

46:58 When you buy the tickele ticket includes the book. Is it sold out? I'm sure it is. It's got to be San Francisco. The Cays are going to come in. Droves, right, Yeah. So I'm very excited. I'm going to meet a friend. We're going to have dinner at sal New Hall. It's the food hall that is part of Akia. Oh really is that the one next. Next to the Ikea store on Market in between fifth and sixth They open a big Ikea there. It's the city version. It's not the whole big warehouse, but it's still a lot. It's multiple floors and next to it the building is a two level food hall of different yeah, different like ethnic foods, vegan vegetarians. So we're going to do that. Stop there for dinner and then walk down those street to the theater and go see.

47:45 Sure, look at you having a good time. Whoa, whoa, Sorry, okay, now we got to go. Invitation. Happy New Year, same to you, had a new year. Happy New Year to all of you, hundreds of thousands of ye like so many on YouTube. And don't forget, we've got more Ankilby got time for that. Oh my gosh, they're lining up and droves. You better make your reservation quick. We're going to run out of the New Year and twenty six twenty five to get all the people in that want to join it. See gosh, people are clamoring Clamoring to later Gary, until next time, Until next time, Sy