S2E13 "Ain't Nobody Got Time For That"-Special Guests Kevin Carter & Joe Andrews

0:03 Oh, hi us on nails. Hi, good morning to you. Well, good morning to you. And it's a pleasant day. And our hairs are looking fabulous, our eyeglasses are looking great. Some of our jewelry looking good. Oh I'm not wearing any jewelry. I'm sorry. Well that's okay. Well, and we are we are sorry. Welcome to Don and Gary Doing sixty. We are here to unwrap, unpack, and navigate the world at this age. Well done, very well choreographed. You can find us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram, and I'm Blue Sky and of course you can see us and get all of this and all of that, or whichever way you're gonna my fear is gonna point at you. Gary on YouTube on five for pod Don and Gary Doing sixty. So please join us, Gary Wells can they email us?

0:52 Email us at Don and Gary Doing sixty at gmail dot com. Don't laugh at me again, that's Don and Gary doowin sixty at gmail dot com. And most importantly, our new website, sponsored by pod page, is actually a great resource for actually leaving us emails. You can lease voicemails, which I'm going to share with you later. We're gonna do a little tutorial, maybe a couple episodes down the line, to show you boomers how it's done, because I have a feeling somehow technology is not wrapping its level around you and maybe you need little guidance on how to press subscribe. But anyway, so how's what's going on? What are you doing? No, ash, I mentioned the Germany trip. That's about me. But in other news, yes, did you hear her chattering?

1:35 Is the end of an era? The Sex and the City sequel, if you will, And just like that has announced that this third season there and now is their final season no more Carrie Bradshaw and friends. I just heard about that, actually, so yeah. They just announced it yesterday. Now, I watched the original Sex in the City and the two movies, but this new reincarnation and just like that series is on Max and I don't have that, so I've never seen an episode, although i've you know, YouTube has a lot of clips, so I do see a lot of clips. But then on social media, I read a lot of the comments and there's you know, the gamut from we love the show, we love the characters, I love with it, and the vitriol of the people who are hating this show. Some haters out there for various reasons. The two main ones are that Samantha's not on this series, and it's like, well, that was her choice, and you know, they worked around that.

2:31 But also in the beginning, it was look how old they look. It's like, well, they're in theirties. When you saw the you know, the original series, they're in their thirties. Of course everyone's going to age, and they're embracing it. The characters are not the audience. A lot of the audience just turned on them. But anyway, so yeah, no more, no more. Well, I just made a comment because that's somebody I follow. H Allen Scott, who's on another podcast and actually does some different things in the media, had mentioned that, you know, why do we have to put up with He's a big lover of Sarah Gisca Parker and the series, and he was commenting on the cancelation of it and said, well, why do we keep going on with horrible shows? And I mentioned in our comments mid Century Modern, which was like, I think that's team again picked up for a second season and it is horrible, horrible, and I'm sure we'll get haters for saying that too, But oh my god, horrible, can't stand it?

3:21 Right? So shall I try my joke on you? Or did you have another sho? Oh no, no please? Okay, I'm sorry. Actually we're going to start with that so much. That's okay? Well actually real quick, Well you know what, maybe we should hold the joke for the guy so I can share it with them. So what are we doing today? What are we talking about? Who are we talking? So we have not one guest, but two. Both are gentlemen who we know from high school. They are graduated the year after us. One is in southern California, one is in Minneapolis. YEP. I keep in touch with one of them on Facebook, but I've not seen either one of them in years, so we reached out. We will hear their stories where they're at, life wise, career wise, and anything else wise they want to tell us.

4:05 Hopefully they are wise. They're actually very funny. They fun talking with them, and they're actually waiting to come in. So we're gonna save our joke for my job for them and ask them the same questions. So apparently I'm gonna let them both in. Let me just let them both. In Release the Hounds. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to the stage, Joe, Anne Flug and Fanny Flag. Your three names are known to TV stage maybe movies. Mine is a character from the Mike Myers. Movies where he was the Austin Powers. Austin Powers. That's why I know. That's so. I'm Italian today. My name is a lot of vagina. Yes, and you are well, I'm a lot of something.

4:50 I used to think you are what you eat, but I'm not so sure. Any I've never had a china. Oh my goodness, I'm already sweat. We just you guys, welcome to the podcast. We're so glad you hear. Actually, Joe Andrews and Kevin Carter are joining us today. We're just gonna go by these pseudonyms today for a while, because they just work for us. I think for all of us. I should. I had a Pamela Sue Martin poster in my and I finally got rid of it because I was falling apart, but it was up well. I struggled with Barbara Belgetti's Joan van Arc, Charlene Tilton or Pamela Sue Martin. Was she Nancy Drew, Yes, and Fallon and Fallon On Dynasty.

5:35 And for the children listening, that was a series many many years ago. Before they rebooted it. They did, did they which? And I didn't watch it because I'm like, nope, nope. Okay, guys, So before we get into this, we're gonna talk about some stuff, but we wanted to like share some history with you. But I have a question I asked Gary before we started to Now, do any of you listen to audio books? Yes? A lot, a lot. Now that I have a commute, I do a little bit more. Okay, do you consider listening to an audio book? No? Same as well, let me finish the question. Guess no, so you don't. But the reason why I ask is do you retain as much from reading it as you do from listening to it? No? No, I mean I retained less from listening than I do from reading it. Don't. There isn't a good sort of streamlined way to say, oh, I read a new book if you've got an audio book, But I don't think it's the same as reading. And so I always say something like, oh I read this great book. Well, I listened to it, and I wish there was a better way to do that, but I don't consider them the same. You're using different parts of your brain.

6:40 I think it also depends on how you learn because I'm more visual than audio. But my husband is more audio suit he and he has dyslexias. Audio is the way to go for him, and he can like listen to it on like one and a half or one in zero point seventy five speed and get it all. But I only do when I do audiobooks. I just do nonfiction, so there's not like a plot to follow because I'm doing it as I'm driving, So like if I like drift off for a second, I just have missed some facts. But not a plot. So I am doing a I'm sorry you no, no, please, okay. So I am my favorite college English professor, and I was an English major. She was a Victorian, so she did end on Edwardigan, so she did Jane Austen. It was really the first Jane Austin I had read, which was Persuasion. And then you know, I've read some warre and of course we've all seen, you know, wonderful sense and sensibility, and we've probably seen pride and prejudiced at least five times in some different form, and I she is leading an alumni tour. So I'm going with some friends of mine early September to England. And so we started Windsor Castle and we then go to Jane Austen's you know, home where she wrote, and then we go to both and spend you know, several days, and we you know.

8:04 Do all of this in costume. I wish we were doing it in costume. I do think there is a place near Jane Austen's home where you can dress up and have photos taken. But I was reading for the first time some of Jane Austen's books. Yeah. Well, and again when I say reading, I mean audiobooks. So I did Northanger Abby, like, who has read that? It's you know, it was her first, and then I moved on to Sense and Sensibility and I was doing it chronologically. So the next is Mansfield Park. And the reason I bring this up is I was listening to it on audiobook and Juliette Stevenson was the narrator. Amazing. But I listened to the first chapter four times and I could not get it because there were so many families and relationships and so forth on. Okay, I just need to I need to read this one, or at least read the first few chapters, because it's not the kind of book you can go on a walk and listen to or listen to the car and be able to get everything.

9:14 And that's when I realized, yeah, I probably only get about seventy percent of what I'm listening to in an audiobook. And so that's my story and as a follow along one, Yeah, I'll tell it again at bedtime, but then it's it's off to bed. You're only you have worked about two hours, right, okay. But that the first day of that tour is on my fifth birthday, September fourth, So all bringing it back to the podcast. So you're not really sixty yet? So why are you here? And who I am? In my I am in my sixtieth year?

9:55 All right? Fine? So was she on the Masked Singer or Dancing with the Star? Is? I don't remember? Drag Race? Oh? Drag Race right? Is a guest judge. So listen back to my original then we'll get we'll dive into it. But the reason why I was asking this because I started listening to audiobooks. I just finished Martin Schwortz's book, which is excellent. He actually narrated that. I will say like autobiographies by the person, yes are an exception to that one. And Steve Martin was just done. He actually had someone interviewing him. Very fascinating. But I'm now reading. I'm just gonna say reading listening to I think it's called Big Hands or Fancy Pants by Tina Fey. And the only reason why I asked this question, I sorry for bossy pants. Thank you, but I'm horrible with jokes. I can never remember jokes. But she was delivering them one after the other, and I actually remembered when I wanted to try it on you. So it's very fast. It's a very quick one.

10:46 So it's basically two peanuts were walking down the road. Guess what happened? What happened? I don't know. One was assaulted. Nice we have answered that dad joke. Is that a dad joke? I guess it is. But it's like, that's a funny Joe. But did you have that on a post it? I do have it on a post It was a flash of yellow go by this screen. No, no, I don't know what you're talking about. That's that's one of those jokes that used to be like on Dixie Cups. Do you remember? Oh? Yes, yeah. So anyway, guys, so sorry to make us go through that, but thank you for the stories and everything. So I guess we could just jump in and Gary, if it's okay with you, maybe we should talk about how we all know each other. Would that be good?

11:35 You guys can start is the common denominator? Yes, high school? That would be on high school? Yes, much much older. Well I don't know much much, but Joe was much much younger and I was right in the middle. Oh, so you. Two did not graduate the same year. You were two, two years or three. Years and I are a class of eighty and I'm and you're eighty one? Were you eighty three or eighty four? Joke? Eighty three? Okay, okay, So he's much younger than us. But his sister Kate was in my class and was my brother. My brother Dave was, I guess since class of seventy years of nine, eight eight nine.

12:20 He was a senior when I was a freshman. And I have to say, one of the things that prompted me to reach out to the two of you was because Joe, you had actually posted something about one of the productions one hundred and fifty years ago that I was in with Dave Yep, Yes, the Fantastics, And it was a horrible picture of me, I wonderful picture of your brother, although I can't believe taking so what this? What is? What's struck me? And said, oh gosh, we've got to get these two on. And I didn't know. And the two of you kind of were in cahoots together because you said I'll do it if he does it, and you said I'll do it if he does it. So I don't know how we lucked out. We've got the two of you in there. So very so down by bringing up the picture of you from years ago? Is that your your reason for asking Joan so he can apologize.

13:03 For It's not a terrible picture. It was it was cut to the tape, cut to the tape? Can we get can we get it on camera three? Can we got Yeah? Jared, have you got this? You know? I saw, I think my first experience seeing you, Donnie and Kevin. I don't know if you were in this production or not, but in eighth grade, I came up from Burrell with some friends like Lendimia Harra, and we saw Godspell at Aragon. I was not Jesus like some of us were, had a small solo. I was completely transfixed and went out and got the piano music and I can still play turned back old Man from memory, Old Man, Old Man. And then gosh, that was it. The next year was fantastics or no, probably the same year.

14:00 I think it was a reverse. I don't remember. It was too long ago. Maybe I think it was the year before. I think it was the year before. So well was Alan Christ? Oh God, Alan Christ? And then John rec fairtig Yes, yes, who I just looked up and is still around. Fanny. We're losing you, just so you know your shop there you are. We lost a powateate part of your head. We don't want to be a head you yet clashing down. So anyway, I just I didn't mean to dredge that up, but I was talking. I wanted to talk about how we had that common denominator too. But and Donnie, I will say this, Donnie was the person who inspired me in the late seventies to feather my hair. Well, I'm sure the dates are wrong, because that couldn't have been me. I wasn't born until nineteen eighty seven, so I'm sure that that had nothing to do with your choices and hair fashions.

14:49 Cut to the film. I'm pretty sure that every woman slash girl on your Wall Joanne had feathered hair, including Farah. But but. I couldn't model my hair my hair on them, and I needed a male, a male feather model. Well there wasn Cassidy, Parker Stevens, Lisa. I kind of had Parker Stevenson because it was very I had very full hair back then. Anyway, now that we've gone down that memory, Lee, maybe we can go back to the podcast. Well, I don't know podcast because I really didn't get to know you guys. And there I was at the resource Center. Do you remember the resource Center? Yes, yes, with missus.

15:35 Hickey, Missus Hickey and we're going. There in the morning. And it was Lisa Piquette, Lisa Schmecktley and Jane Anderson and you guys. I thought you were all just the best. I felt I felt like I found my tribe, and it was very exciting to kind of be welcomed in and to listen to you all banter and be so clever. It was really terrific. Eric Circle, Eric. Shriff, Yeah, yeah, we're pulling all the names out. Yeah, and here they are now.

16:15 I still see like behind. Us as a rock catline is all the people you just mentioned go to the videotape. I still regularly see like the whole like Airshair branch here and all. Okay, guys, so let's talk about what's going on now. So we're almost all almost all of us except for Fanny Flagger, in the same club right now. So maybe you could tell us how life is going, because one of the things we'd like to dive into is seeing how you're doing, seeing how life is progressed. I know you all have a bunch of new interests that are taking place in your lives. You have done some reinvention. So who wants to go first? Not Gary, I'll talk about my reinvention, yes please you. So it happened just about a year ago. I had been working.

16:58 At Paramount Pictures, an office job for like almost ten years. I got laid off in January of twenty four. But I was on the job market and you know, getting initial interviews, but not a lot of bites. Seven months rolled around or well, like maybe like five or six, and I started being like, hmm, maybe I asked the good old question, like if money weren't an issue, what would you do? And I had after college. I had taught music directed and taught a class at San Mateo High School where we grew up, and I really really loved doing that, and I'd done some of that here and there after I moved to New York and stuff, but I hadn't done it for decades, and so I was like, no, what, let me just put some feelers out, and I put some I put a thing on Facebook.

17:45 I think, you know, if anybody I'm looking into doing this, if anybody has any connections, and lots of people reached out, a lot of people that I knew from the past but didn't know that they were now drama teachers or somehow involved in education, and everybody was like super helpful. And then I think it was like in July someone when I after college, I lived in the Hate and we had the long story, but we had this group of like high school kids from the East Bay that would come and hang out with us on the weekends. And one of one of them now is a tech theater teacher over in the East band. He's like, well, the drama teacher moved down to LA a couple of years ago, and I think he's looking for a music director. So he connected us and we talked, and we met for coffee, and he offered me a job and I'm like, well, you know, that's like two periods, you know, four days a week, so that's does not pay the mortgage. So it was earlier in the summer, so I still had time.

18:40 And then I talked to someone who had been in some readings of a musical I had written in New York and he was out here now and he I didn't realize, but he was teaching theater at USC and so he was talking to me and he's like, hey, do you know California School of the Arts And I was like rings a tiny bells, like I don't know one there. So he connected us an email. I reached that person connected me to the head of the theater department. I talked to him the next day. Offered me a class to teach, and I was like, that's great, but I have a mortgage, and he's like, hold on, and so we offered also accompanying to audition classes and the possibility of other things throughout the year, and that they would pay to get credited, not like regular teacher credential, but it's called CT which his career Technical Educations. I'm almost done, and I can teach in arts, entertainment and media.

19:36 So it's not like I couldn't go and be a sub at a school, but I can teach in that area. And so I started last fall, and it was because the last time I had taught, I was not much older than the high school kids, and now I'm a little bit older than the high school kids, even though I think that sometimes people might mistake. Me for a senior walking for your campus. But let me ask you a quick question, Kevin. So, while you were going on the journey towards getting this new job that you just started, did you feel or experience or felt that you had any forms of agism towards you? When you were filling out applications having your interviews, do you feel like you were dismissed or were you even considered for jobs? Because I know they asked for ages or college degrees, or college dates or high school dates.

20:26 Well, first, you don't have to put your education dates. I think you can put it down if it was like in the last five years, but otherwise you don't have to put that down and they can't ask yourate. But I appear on the zoom video looking like this and not like a twenty year old and for the and it was I mean, my day job experience for decades was admin and executive assistant stuff. So I'm sure there was a lot of like, why is this old guy still an admin? What's wrong? But I mean there were enough people that got it. And also when I got dismissed at Paramount, I had there been a shuffling around, and I was in a new group and everybody was maybe older twenties, younger thirties, and my manager was probably mid thirties and the first time having like a manager who was nowhere near my age, so that I think that factored in there, and I was trying. I talked to a lawyer when I got let go about like ken Art, and there was nothing overt, but I definitely nothing outright in the job search, but I definitely felt aware of my age and the kind of jobs I was applying for. Whereas as a drama teacher, having like a white beard is a plus.

21:45 Now you're like, he knows what's going on. Experience. It's Kevin's white beard, right. It is actually good call. Do you feel, Kevin, like this is the job you've always wanted. Yeah, Like I I my husband Jay came to see there's a show at each high school in the spring and there's a day that he could go see both of them, and he was like, He's like, I always knew this was the right thing for you, but like actually seeing you in the environment and seeing you with the kids and seeing the kids around you, he goes, I totally, I totally get it. Now we all know theater kids, high school theater kids. And it also makes me feel a hell of a lot younger hanging around them and being accepted because I thought, you know, I'm so much older now, it's going to be a different vibe.

22:37 But it's not really that different. And I'm like, my picture appeared twice during the school year on my classes group chat and they were like, mister Carter, that's two times more than any other teacher at this school. And so I felt very good about that. And like the last day. Of school at one school, like I had a literal line of. Kids waited to take their picture with me. And at the other school, I would have, like the last week, I would have like a stack of yearbooks next to me waiting waiting for me to sign them. I'm like, I hardly ever asked teachers. I've only asked the really cool teachers in high school. But you're bringing your experience as a theater kid yourself to all the things that the and what's the age group that.

23:19 You're high school? High school? High school? Okay, so you definitely can relate to them and bring all of your own experience. And that getting drawn in or like the drama and the boyfriends and the girlfriends and crushes, which makes me feel happy. That says a lot about you too. I mean you probably give off a vibe of, you know, your passion and your love for the subject matter. Yeah, so they kind of take that in. Yeah. So I'm excited to go back. I start back on Monday, but the kids are the following week or two weeks. And I'm excited because I remember when I started last year the first day, like seeing all the kids coming up to the teachers and like hugging them and talking about their summers and stuff, and I'm like, oh, this is really nice, and I'm like, today that will be me because they're looking at me like, oh, who's the who's the new There's another teacher that looks very much like this, so they're.

24:07 Like, oh, we thought you were we thought you were mister Gilmore because you know, in another. Balding, white hair, white guy so much so the Halloween we went dressed as each other to school. It's interesting adversity kind of threw you into and fade. I guess put you into a role that you truly are. I'm assuming loving right now. Too, right, yeah, And the only the only downside at the moment is that they are both part time gigs. So even though they pay more per hour, I have like half the hours. So I'm struggling. I'm dipping into my savings a lot, but hopefully I will after this year, I will be able to get something full time with benefits and stuff, and then.

24:49 You never know, that could turn into a community theater direct. There's all kinds of things now that are opening up a door. For you with these credits that you're ruling, because yeah, and just to have credits that are from this century and also references from this century, because my one reference really from San Mateo High. If we all remember roy k Stevens at oh oh wow, dubious who ended up in jail. We want to go into the reasons. So yeah, maybe not. I can't credit. I couldn't use him as a as a reference. So that was like all of my high school work was with the person that I can't use as a reference. Well, congratulations on that though. That's great, Kevin.

25:30 Yeah, it's okay, Joe Europe, tell us what's been going on with you? Now? You would mention and I'll let you share that with us, But what's what's your current Sitch, what's going on? I'm going to I'm going to take a step back in time, if that's okay. So my career started, you know, kind of. It was one of those serendipitous things where I graduated from college, I moved back to saw English with a lot of with a lot of music, and then I just had no idea what to do, and so I moved back home, thinking it would just it would be like it was in high school, and of course there was no one there and it wasn't the same.

26:12 In fact, it was sort of sad that there was no one there. And I thought, why did I move back here to this place that's so expensive when all of my college buddies are in uptown Minneapolis, you know where, you know, that's where Prince was happening and Janet Jackson was doing her thing, And so I moved back here and I was a Kelly girl. Does that mean anything to you. To some people, to some boomers, I'm sure that you remember what that reference is. Yeah, nearly a Kelly girl like you worked for that company or yes, that's okay. It was Kelly Services. And they landed me in a marketing in marketing as an executive assistant and at Pillsbury.

26:54 And I was there, you know, like three days and everyone I was reporting to, all these marketing folks who did you know, Hungry Jack biscuits and toasters strudel and Hungry Jack potatoes and all those good things. They're like, oh, you can write, and you're willing to stay late, and you know, I'm a total people pleaser. So I was just like, yeah, give me, give me the overtime. I'm happy to be here. And then I started working weekends because they were busy and needed help putting presentations together. And it just went really well, and that turned into a job and pr for Pillsbury, which turned into a job for promotions, where you know, you're doing tie ins with Disney and all these sorts of things, and then that turned into integrated marketing, just as the Internet was becoming a thing, you know, everything just it was just miraculously wonderful. And then a new vice president came in and it was just awful. And so I left, but not until I had become just really anxious, and I thought, I'll just take a month off and then I'll go do this other job. Well, I within the first week of that sort of month that I thought would be super fun, I started having anxiety attacks, which I'd never experienced before, and so I thought I was going crazy.

28:21 It was really bad. And so you know, my dear mother, she's like, you you must come home, you must come to my bossom. And she is at the time, was living in Canada taking care of her mother. We have a farm up there, and so I went went there and anyway, I. Convalized, went up to the farm in Canada. Yeah, and you know, and then there was all sorts of like coming out again, like for the second time. And because I was engaged to a woman, and so I had a good step right. Yeah. So I you know, I was really out in high school. But then when I went out to the Midwest, even though it was a very liberal, liberal arts college, I just I just couldn't sort of find my footing.

29:14 You know. I met a woman who was fantastic and we just really jelled and I thought, well, I think I can make this work. And we got engaged and we both graduated and we had the invitations printed and that's when I just sort of fell to pieces and I'm like, I can't, I can't do this, and so that was super rough, and so it's sort of all through this period. She's great, She's who I'm going on the Jane Austin tour. She's my roommate, has a very happy ending. We are very close. She was very close to you last yesterday, Kevin, because she was at Jesus Christ Superstar with her daughter.

30:01 Some friends went and said it was like one of the most amazing theatrical experiences. Yeah, she said that they were pretty much in tears the whole time. It was just extraordinary. Anyway, So this is sort of very condensed, but what I learned sort of starting at age nineteen twenty through sort of twenty five was that I have a propensity towards anxiety, which sort of gets really great, and then I PLoP into a depression. And you know, twenty five years thirty five years ago, I just feel like I didn't know how to say those words out loud or to even sort of understand what was going on. So I was really quite nervous when I had the opportunity to retire because I thought, oh, this is going to happen again. Where if I don't have if I'm not so busy throughout the day that I'd have trouble like finding time to go to the bathroom, which is how work was for the last sixteen years. What am I going to do?

31:10 Am I going to fall apart? And so I fully intended upon leaving my last position was to go right back to work. And what I found was it was wonderful. It was what you needed. Yeah, well, what was wonderful. Not having to come to work in the morning or actually roll over in bed on your phone and see I've got twenty emails Because it was a global business, right, so you know you're getting emails from everybody's work day and when yours hasn't even begun. That's and I was in a position where I was I was the vice president of global brand Strategy, so kind of needed to help all of the divisions around the world. It was just a great job as this I think so often the case, it was a great job until it wasn't, you know, And then you hang on and you stay there for another couple of years and that just wears away at you.

32:10 So it's like so many things like that. You kind of normalize this dress and anxiety of work, and you're like, this is normally. You don't realize that it doesn't have to be like that till it's gone. You're like, right, or that the the old saw about the frog in the cold water, but it's set to boil and it's happening, so gradually the frog doesn't notice until it's dead. And yeah, I I Potter, I take the Dogs on Walks my garden direct show about five years ago. Wow, and so yeah, and then you know, you go through those feelings of is you know, can I do this? And then you know, I talked to my husband and he's still working, and I you get feelings of guilt you know, and you have to sort through those and there's a lot of talking like is it okay that I'm doing this? And would you prefer that I put more money in the nest egg? And you have to do a lot of talking to get through all those emotions.

33:16 Do you because you were at these companies for a long time, you have a nice nest egg or a pension. Yeah. So I was very fortunate at my last job that I sort of six months after I got there, they changed the whole pension plan. But I entered just at the right time to have what's called a defined benefit a defined pension plan. So the longer you stay there, the more money you get, not just you know, your four oh one K that's a separate thing. You actually have this other, like nice pot of money that just keeps growing for your years of service. And that's, you know, what the big companies used to do, and I just don't think they do that anymore. So that was very like the.

34:01 Only people that had been there like thirty plus years or something had attention. Like anybody that started later than thirty years ago. It is a thing of the past. The pensions are not in anyone's golden parachute anymore unless you're with IBM or some large large or. A CEO of the company or something. Right, So was it the idea of because it sounded like a number of things you mentioned, Joe, were that uncertainty caused anxiety and not having structure perhaps, right, I don't. Know exactly like that, No, that's exactly it. I thought. The analogy I think of is like I was like a violin string that had been wound really taut and more taught and more taught until it broke. You know.

34:43 That's what it was like when I left that first job and had those anxiety attacks. In this case, I learned from that experience and sort of pressed myself for that so that I decompressed more slowly and sort of knew some of the life likely things that would happen if I didn't have sort of anything on the docket. So you know, there were things going on. One of the things that really helped was starting about thirteen years ago, my husband and I started doing triathlons, and neither of us could swim other than you know, right, I mean we could swim like we grew up in California, and you know, you could swim to one end of the pool and the other and blah blah blah as love as your hair didn't get away and you flow, But to swim continuously like I could do, you know, maybe three laps and then I was just exhausted, which is kind of standard if you don't actually know how to swim.

35:44 So we both, you know, took swimming. The idea? Was it? Who had? Well, that's one of you. Well we I think I suggested we get together during the holidays. We fly out to Kate's place, my sister. I don't know if you did. You guys know Kate Kate, Katie Kate. She was my ear. Yeah, so I know, Kevin, you inquire. Your sister is one of the two women I have ever gone out on a date with. What we went to we want to see? Did you know that Joe? I did not. Stop the recording right now. No, I had like I had a total Well I also had a crush on your brother too, but I didn't go.

36:28 Out with him. That's that's interesting information. No worry, nothing's happened. I can't remember. We got athlete, so wait, triathlelete? So question real quick? Ones are gotting? So before you start triathlete is swimming, running and bike cycling? Correct? And I want to ask you you didn't do this because of the unitard opportunities for photo off? Did you? That was a total bonus? Okay? Do you do you have to wear a unitar? I do a flesh color unitart, of course you do, right? Anatomical painting? Gon? No, But I was let's see fifteen five, I was eighty pounds heavier.

37:12 Wow. Yeah, so I'd gotten to be a big boy. And so I suggested to my brother in law, Kate's husband and Scott, I said, at Thanksgiving this year, and we were going to all come together as a family in Park City and rent a big house and I'll be there together with the nephews and nieces and so forth. Let's do a mini triathlon. Let's because we had access to all the right stuff to make that happen, and my and we called it the fat Man Triathlon. And we've been doing it every year since then over the holidays. We have T shirts. Now does the whole family take part? The young and the old all take part? Wow?

37:52 And the T shirts have and I forget the exact Latin phrase, but it's a Latin phrase that translates to angels weep when they see us run. So anyway, we're doing this and I didn't think to take swimming lessons, but Scott said, oh, I can't. I can't swim, so I have to take swimming lessons. And he tried to do like the think method, where he was reading a book on how to swim, and and after a while he's like, I can only get so far with this before I'm going to have to get in a pool.

38:33 So he there was a new guy at the gym named Lance Leo, a total poor man Leo and Lance, I don't know if you remember that one. Yes, oh my god, and let's show the tape. Relative So he came home when Dan said, so, you know, I've been taking these swimming lessons and they're super expensive. And I mentioned that to my swim instructor, who I think is great, and the swim instructor said, well, you should just join the triathlon team because you'll get a swimming lesson baked into it, plus all the other stuff.

39:15 And so he said, I'm going to I'm joining the triathlon team. And I'm like, well, well then I am. I'm going to join I'm going to join. Is that intimidating though, because they're assuming everyone has a different level of experience, and with triathlons, right, so you're coming in there fresh off the boat. Right yep. And yes, everything about it was intimidating, everything because. I and they accept like you didn't have to like audition like they took whoever was interesting, right, or did you have to do a. Monologue every modern manor in general. You could do a little Gilbert and solivate it for them. And it was intimidating. And then you get to know the folks and you're like, I was just terrible, But I also knew the guy lance Leo turned into a real friend to us. We just went over to his house a month ago for his kids graduation from high school.

40:13 We're still buddies, and you know, he was an iron man and was just fit as could be, but also like one of the nicest people. And so we would go from a spin class like direct into a spin class directly under the treadmills, and I'm like, I can't, I can't do this, and he said, oh, yeah, you can't. I can't run, and he's like, yeah, you'll just walk I'm like, that's okay, yeah, just just walk and so it just over time, you just get better and better at stuff. And you know, I just had a few major AHAs about swimming, and then suddenly I went from not being able to do you know, two laps to being able to swim. There was no limit because it became if you learn how to do endurance swimming, it's like walking, you figure out like I don't know how to put it, but it just yeah, it's just totally patient.

41:06 But all those weeks, how many weeks and months did it train? Did you train to finally participate in one? We probably trained for six months before our first real triathlon in open water. So, speaking of Jaws, we begged my dad to take the kids to go see Jaws number two, but the first one, and so I would have been like sixth grade, and it had an enduring sort of crimal effect on me. I couldn't be in a swimming pool at night without lights. I would never see the idea of swimming in open water was terrifying to me, like it was my greatest fear. And so I had to start doing these lake swims and I could only do it if I was with a whole bunch of other people.

41:58 There's no sharks in lakes. Well, you know the thing about irrational sphere and eels and lengths, The irrational fears are irrational irra right, So the way I was able to get through it was being around a lot of other people. And then I'm like, I have to have something going on in my head that will sort of that I can do for a long period of time, that will get me out of my fear. And the only thing I could come up with was the original Broadway recording of Avida, which I can do from beginning to end, including dance breaks, you. Know, London or original cast. Original Broadway. So Patti Lapote, yes, that's the only one that exists or needs. And so I went from doing like little minor swims out in the lake with friends, to a sprint triathlon which is about a quarter quarter mile, to a Olympic length which is about a mile, and then finally to a half iron Man which is one point two miles. And those first few ones were all about Avida. So my tempa would totally shift from what's new Buenos Aires to another suitcase in another hall, right, so you know, my pace was just all over the board.

43:24 But so we're asking about sort of other things that motivate us. I am now what's called the mayor of Trytown, So I'm the manager of our team. So I have the entire triathlete team locally, right right? Wow? Okay, And so now I figure out what rides we'll be doing over the weekends and when we'll start and where we'll start. We have a book club as a part of that, so we I'm in charge of that and where our runs will be. Yeah, let me ask you a little quick about that, Joe, because it sounds like you've also created community or your tribe.

44:05 You're talking about that because you this one group has actually opened up to a book club, which might not all include people from the triathlete group too, or is it other people part of that. Well, it's interesting because it originally started as a as a try team, and then other people would say, I don't really want to do triathlons, but I love biking. Can I go on your Saturday bike rides? And so it sort of grew and then there were some people who were spouses who like, I don't want to do any of that, but I love the idea. I love all of you. Can I come to your barbecues? You know? Or I love book clubs? Can we can we do that more? The more the merrier, I.

44:46 Have to hand it to you, because one of the things we have talked about Garyan in the past is when people we've had the same thing. When I moved away from San Francisco, Gary State there we had a tribe at one point. But what you've created is a really great catalyst for people to become involved in what they like to do. But sometimes what we hear many times from people, and what I've observed in the last few years is there is a lot more isolation with people who are older, not our age, but going into this age group, they find themselves not a part of something and looking for community. So that sounds like a perfect catalyst for people to become involved with something as much as they want to. What's the what's the age makeup of these like the try team and the book play.

45:28 Let's see our youngest folks are in there is and we have a guy who's seventy two my age, and and you know every so often, you know, well, I'm sure we're eventually going to have some twenty year olds. They kind of come in and come out and and that's all. It's all good. And to your point, Donnie, and this is sort of like what you were saying, Kevin, is when you feel like the kids accept you and you know, all of those. We have a couple who he's an incredible triathlete. She's very good in her own right. They're married, they have three kids. They moved here from one of the Dakota's I can't remember which, and they heard about us. I reached out to them. They joined for I think a book club, and then suddenly they were involved. And he took me aside and said, we finally feel like we found our people. You know, we've been here for over a year and it's been hard to you know, find find friends with common interests. You know, that's very you know.

46:31 You helped facilitate that gratifying. But also you are providing an amazing service for service for so many people are looking for exactly what you're talking about and what you've created. Because again I'll mention that so many times in different communities, I find that there's a lot of people feeling like they have no community, they don't know where to find it. Everyone says, oh, just join this, join that, but it's not as easy as it sounds to do that. I think that keeps you young, young and active too, as opposed to sitting. I have an idea for you, Okay. Your idea should be to take this model that you've created and show other people how to do it. There's a business for you right there, sir ambassador. I only take a small fee for that, but you go run with that. It's very gratifying. Joe. I think you're doing something really wonderful, and I mean you're kind of as you said, you took over the leadership of this group, right I did. Yeah, Wow, that's amazing.

47:28 So I'm not a coach, so I can't you know, I can help people in terms of understanding what to expect at a triathlon, and I can sort of, you know, put all of these events together. They're playing to your strength. Yeah, but I'm not going to be the person who's going to talk about, you know, appropriate tempo pace for five k or you know what have you. Well, all that's amazing and congratulations to both of you. Gary, what about you do you do? You have a couple of questions for us because I know you do well. You know, speak I let every one speak up. I wanted to go back to Kevin because normally as we get into our sixes, we'd start talking about retiring.

48:09 But you, I mean, you. Went back to a career that you had before that you really enjoyed. So my question too is you said you did it when you were younger, and then you had some other jobs and after the paramount is when you rediscovered if you will teaching, why didn't you teach before? I mean, it sounds like you're very passionate about it, which is something that may prevent you from I. Think before like what. So after high school, I went to San Francisco Cisco State and lived in San Francisco. So that was about like ten years, and then I moved to New York for twenty three years, and I was acting and doing summer stock and stuff, and I had day jobs to support me in between, like an officer, kind of like Joe, but I just kind of kept it as a day job.

48:50 So I never like rose because I didn't want to be an investment baker anyway. So during that time I was doing the performing thing and I had some like like teaching thing and coaching things on the side, but I had that outlet, so I wasn't just doing like the office job. And then when I got out to LA in twenty fourteen, any of my theater teaching kind of contacts were all in New York, so I didn't have any connections. I ended up pretty quickly at Paramount Pictures, which was very cool, even though I didn't know what I wanted to do there, but I was there, and so I'm like, you know what, not everybody gets to work at a major motion picture studio, So so I was trying to pursue see what I could do in film.

49:36 I took a bunch of classes at UCLA. And I was meeting everybody all in different departments all over the lot, trying to get into marketing or production and all this kind of stuff. I was like, you know what, I'm here, Let's try to make something out of this. And then over time it was kind of like I started realizing that at my age and my experience and what I was willing to take as a salary, everybody wants the creative. Jobs in the studios. And there's a million of twenty year olds that are willing to like work for thirty thirty K a year. And that have like done their time like. At a at an agency or something because that's what they like to have because then you know all the names.

50:18 And so I didn't have either that experience at agency and I wasn't going to take like a drastic cut and pay, and so that really kind of brought reality in to be like, Okay, I wish i'd taken more any film. Classes in college. But so that's that's why I didn't do the teaching thing, because I was kind of happy in what I was doing both day job and creative career. And so I think it took like. Everything was great at Paramount ttil like this last switch of roles and then I was just miserable and so I wasn't happy what I was doing. Then I got laid off, and I'm like, you know, why am I continuing to look for these same kind of jobs that you know they paid decent, they don't pay like crazy, but it's near what I want to do, but it isn't what I want to do. Like I was happy to say I worked at Paramount, but what I was doing there was not I could have given a shit, So I think that's what started getting the wheel spinning, like what do you really want to do?

51:16 Stop? Stop pretending you're going to have a career in film, because that was something you never I've never even been on a film set, so it kind of like took me, like not feeling fulfilled in what I was doing for really the first time in a while, to be like, what do you really want to do? You're fulfilled now, right? I am? Yeah, like this is where I'm supposed to be. Joe, You're feeling quite fulfilled also, correct. I am. I occasionally have moments where I'm like, I should be teaching just like you, Kevin, I think, and I went and I have my substitute teacher license, which in Minnesota basically if you're breathing and haven't committed a felony, oh recently the college degree you could, you can be a substitute teacher. But I really haven't done anything with that.

52:03 When any of my buddies who teach at the high school level say hey, I need somebody to come in and teach the vocal parts to the kids for you know, a day, because our person's out. Would you be willing? I always say us and Kevin like you, I'm I'm a pianist, and so that really comes in incredibly handy, and so I do feel like that would be great. So when I'm directing Gilbert and Sullivan's I do feel very much like everything has led to this. Like I directed in college a couple of shows, and I was like, wow, I am so ill suited for this because I was an actor who was put into a director position just I just didn't have the life experience or the experience experience to be doing it. And I felt like, Okay, I know I don't want to do that. But then you know, twenty years later, you know, with a I really firm convictions about how Gilbert and Sullivan should be done.

53:04 And the other thing is I've discovered that I'm a really good rewriter. So for instance, you can't really do the Micado anymore because of cultural appropriation and all of that. So we did a version of it reset in Scotland where it was the Mick mc mccarto, and so that needed to be rewritten. And you know, you have to do it with just the right sensibilities or you really screw it up. And you know you want Gilbert and Sullivan enthusiasts and even you know, those who are purists to come in and say, you captured the the elements of Gilbert and Sullivan, you know, felt Gilbertian. That's what you want to hear. You don't want it to be jarring, and you don't want it to sort of undercut all the cleverness of it all, you know.

54:06 And so you're not changing the lyric. You're not going to do that, correct, You're not really changing the body of work. You're changing the situation. Did you change the lyrics or just we did change lyrics and we did change the libretto, so we changed the lines again. That's where it gets really dicey with purists. Yeah. Absolutely. So you know, I went to the Guthrie is our sort of big, you know, repertory theater here in the city, and I went to see HMS Pinafore. Yeah, HMS Pinafore, and they billed it as Gilbert and Sullivan's HMS Pinafore, And so I came into expecting that, and they rewrote the music along with you know, I think you know, things became sambas and there were you know, tangos and and it was it was very off putting. Because you bill it as one thing and then you provide another.

55:08 It was very hard for me to even know if i'd known it was going to be different, you know, you come in with those expectations. But it was new Pirates on Broadway. That's another extent where they interpolate in other numbers from other Gilbert and Sullivans. They they've changed, well, they've moved it to New Orleans, but they've also marketed it in a way that you know that it's not a conventional Pirates of Penzance. It's not the rect that's happening quite a bit. So let me ask you both, what do you think about the Pussycat Doll doing Sunset Boulevard. I will say when I first heard about it, yeah, because I've always loved her voice. But my first thought was like, she is too young. And then I looked and I was like, oh no, she's.

55:55 Like maybe it's the right age. That's about what Glorious wants. Layce Wantson was. So I was like, but she's still like she doesn't she She's not known for her acting, so it's not like she's like this grand dam of like like Betty Buckley and Patty Lacone and all the people that did it, and I'm like, I know she can sing it. And then I started seeing clips of her singing it. I'm like, okay, And then I saw her on the Tonys. I'm like, that's where she won me over. It was on the Tonys where I just. Like young audience. Probably, that's for sure. I think that's people happening with Gilbert and Sullivan too being restaged or I don't say we reinvented, but also so sorry. That would bring newer audiences in that wouldn't traditionally go to sea.

56:39 I think, yeah, absolutely, and I think that's all great. Again, it's just sort of going back to how Prince do you guys listen to satellite radio on Broadway. The guy Ridetzky, he interviewed hel Prince you know whatever eight years ago and asked him what do you think you bring that is critical to what you do? And he said, taste, you know, the ability to know good from bad and to be able to make decisions. And so I do think there there are examples of just really bad rethinking of certain pieces. It happens a lot in opera, you know again, and I think it's sort of trying to make it interesting and palatable, palatable to a new audience.

57:25 But and Jamie Lloyd, who did the rethinking of Sunset Boulevard and is responsible for the avida that's going on which I get to see in a in a month. Oh nice. There are some really funny clips of Jamie Lloyd's send ups. Have you seen these? Whereas you know, you see the curtains call. I saw the curtain call for the sound of Sound of Music, and see all the kids and they've just taken their bow and then outcomes a man and a dipe are covered in blood for the final bow. And it's like Jamie Lloyd's the Sound of Music, you know, where it's just making fun of his like yeah, his reinterpretations of musicals, and he's done the music they did, They did the music Man and killed Bye Bye Bertie.

58:19 Just you know, sort of all these fun, frothy musicals and the man in the diaper covered in blood comes out for his bow. Anyway, that's neither here or there. Okay, So we've gone down a theater rabbit hole, which is fine, And let's go to some old people questions, shall we. Sure? Yeah, a lot of people will say you're talking about theaters old people. Yeah, okay, let's do some quick fun ones. Then no, no, we can talk to old people. Did your go to karaoke song? Either one of you, both of you. I'm so scared of karryoke me too long key that I that it's going to be in the wrong king, it is going to be too high, and I will be able to sing it. Okay, But I will say back after during college, my friend had this was even before karaoke was really a thing, but we just called it his music machine and we would have parties at his house and Kirk Livingstone and I was a friend from college. We often did because people would bring costumes and then people were bringing their agents. It was got very crazy, but we often did Close to You by the Carpenters. But I was Karen and I had the long wig and it was staged at her deathbed. So I'm like, I'm laying down on a table and he's trying to get me to eat a sandwich and I'm like no, and then I die part way through, but I keep coming back to life to do the Oh.

59:42 I will say that brilliant. That sounds amazing. Joe, how about you? I have a fear of karaoke because I don't have a pop voice. I sang opera and light opera for so long that it's one of those it's like, oh, he can't. He's not a crossover star, and so. Don't they Gilbert and Sullivan karaoke tracks. Strangely, no one clamors for that, but so I have to just kind of go with big voice stuff like New York, New York, or you know, something along those lines. Okay, next question, have you in any way become your mother or father your parents? Do you see that. I've become My dad was always very thrifty, not in a cheap way, but just always very mindful of of expenses.

1:00:29 So I inherited that. I think you don't find yourself looking at the neighbor saying I wonder what they're doing, Why are there? Why are there? Their curtains always closed? My parents weren't. Weren't that? Okay, Joe with the scarf is apparent. Where are we going? Oh you noticed? We all notice. I have a prop I started knitting, which my my mom was a cruise scheer, and I've started knitting, and I find it's phenomenal for my mental health. Yeah, it's great when I am in social situations. Do you do it while you're doing something else or you just I've gotten so good at it, I can do it while other things are going on.

1:01:18 Can you do it while you're in a triathlon? I haven't mastered that yet. One something else you can do. But it's great for social anxiety, Like if you're like, we're going up to the lake with a bunch of friends who I adore, but I have trouble with sort of unstructured downtime. And but if I'm sitting there making something beautiful and you know, you're using your left brain and your right brain because you're using both hands, and it's just great holidays with the family. It's a wonderful way to not sort of engage, you know, when you become you know, the third child, the baby, and because of family dynam and so forth, if you're knitting, you know I'm here, you don't. Yeah, you're present, you're not on your phone, and you can sort of engage as you need to and still you know, it's just been really helpful for me.

1:02:13 So, since you mentioned props, and before that we talked about music, I'm going to take a slight turn. I wish I had this prop right now, but I look for it, I couldn't find it. So I'll start with the trivia question, who among us has released an album of music? Really? I own that album and I don't know what the hell I did with it. Is the Flips? That pink? That pink thing is the frame? Oh yeah, I see make this happen. Hold on, you can see the album? Do you remember it was? It was part of a group. Singer. Yeah, four of us, let me see if I can, And they. Were called the Flips, and they put out an album and I bought it and I thought I had it, but I don't have any LPs anymore, and it wasn't in there.

1:02:57 We're going running around that. You can't. No, I know where I can get it. Hold on, talk amongst yourself. Okay, I'm sorry, miss Fluke. You can't, oh dear. You can't just walks off sets just having a little touch up her makeup. This is so while we're waiting, there's a question I was going to ask. Related there. It is the Flips, right, wow? Is that the only album you guys put out? Yes? Because then we broke up. I was in a movie. How long ago was that? What in a movie?

1:03:37 Yes, just you know drop dead fred Anywine with Phoebe. Kate's okay, yes, yeah, what. Did you do? No? No, that would have been great. I was in the food fight scene. I was the pianist. Yeah, and there was a quintete. We were playing some Schubert in the background, and you know, all hell breaks out and food gets thrown and so forth. So yeah, well that was my brief moment of fame. So don will have to find that movie clip. We were at the promo. Yes, and what about you? Have you been in any movies or anything? Well, none that I can speak right now?

1:04:18 You mean you're only fans, it's not a movie. While we were in high school, I was never one on stage. I was one of the stage hs. But no that I recall. I've I've been on like interviewed for local TV news many times because of my volunteer work. One of them was very funny. We were out of chrissy Field. I volunteered for the fire department and we're having an exercise out there and I'm doing whatever and someone said, does anyone speak Spanish? And I raised my hashes. Okay, go talk to the reporter. You're going to go on the news, like what? So yeah, but yeah, I've been interviewed several times. For local news. That's great. I will be on stage tomorrow at Golden Gate Park bandshell, talking about our volunteer work. The Golden Gate Park Band they play every Sunday for free for like April to October is and one concert a year the dedicate to honor volunteers. And so I've been going for like ten years and I go up there and speak to the group.

1:05:09 So that's why I'll be tomorrow. So that's closest I've gotten. Do you do so bilingually or all in in that case? No, just in English? Okay, no interpretive dance. That's said, don't get me, don't give me any ideas because I have till tomorrow. But anyways, enough about me. My question to show since you're about to turn sixty, and by the way, your birthday is one week before mine. Oh is that right? I'm on the tenth I'm on the tent. So one question we ask guests is well, has aged for either of you ever been an issue? Because as you turn, you know some people for turning forty, So are turning thirty whatever some age maybe have an issue with Has it ever been an issue for you or do you have any anxiety as you approach sixty?

1:05:50 No, I don't. I The only time I have anxiety is when I have those moments of realization. Like we were talking, Kevin, all of us the other day about real how did you put it? Because you're saying the seventies was back on my kids today thinking about the seventies would be like us in high school thinking about the twenties. Yeah, you know where I'm like, oh oh oh. But I don't have any anxiety about it. Accept It shows up in dreams where I will be in college and be doing a show, and somewhere sort of halfway through the rehearsal process or whatever, I suddenly start doing the math and realizing I'm not the same age as the people around me, and I get really distressed. But I don't have any distress in my regular life about it.

1:06:53 I'm caring for a relative, a cousin of mine who had a brain tumor removed and is no longer sort of mentally fully functional, and helped her move out of well, helped her bury her husband, helped her move into a senior community and then helped her move into assisted living. So I've sort of done all of those things over the last five years, which has you know, now my husband and I are like, okay, okay, we know how that works. Now we need to make sure that we learn from all of that, because there were lots of things, love that insurance and just having a what's it called medical directive? A will you know? All of those things we just did all that last year. Yeah, And when Scott and I did our medical directive when we were getting married, we both filled it out and then we handed it to one another, and it asks you all of those questions, like, so you've been in a persistent vegetative state and there's almost no chance that you will gain any mental capacity back, So what do you want to have happened? And of course I'm just like, oh yeah, when you know, I'm unplugged me and Scott's like, well, he didn't say there was no chance. He just said there was. We just had very different views of like end of life stuff. But over the last you know, ten fifteen years, we're much more aligned now.

1:08:24 Well, and you can have like Hay's thing is like if I'm in a vegetive state. Keep me there for a year and a day and if nothing has. Changed, then then you can do it. But yeah, i'll put in on this subject. For those of us at this age, long term care insurance is something I never knew about, and. That's what pays for assisted living. It's nothing else. And if you don't have it, sixty is not too late to start doing that. And also, if you own property, to get a trust because if you die, it's a nightmare. Because my husband's dealing with his mom who pass to four years ago. She did have anything in a trust and he's still dealing with. It four years later.

1:09:05 Wow. So I mean even if you don't, because I learned that just having a will doesn't make everything go smoothly to do a trust. So you need to go back and look at our previous episodes and we discussed this. There we go. Obviously you missed that one, so we'll expect a report on it after you've watched it. I was watching the Jeff and CC one this morning. Okay, so guys, let's let's bring this back around again. So Gary, any more questions do you have? Well, Yoda, we call one segment any questions more you have, Hey, nobody got time for that? Yeah? Right? And the quick answer is our quick comment is that when we were younger, maybe we'd kind of let things slide, like, yeah, whatever they said or whatever they did, I'm just not gonna let it bother me. But as you get older, it's like, you know what, Like in my case, I would tend to speak up more now than when I was younger. If I would write someone's beck young when I was younger, I'm like, I just thought, just don't worry about it. So I ain't nobody got time for that?

1:10:04 What do not have any more time for? Whether it's you don't have the patience to put up with people or you just don't let people slide on things? Is there anything that you don't have any I ain't got time for. I'm kind of the opposite of what you just described. No, I just feel like the world's on fire, and I'm not going to bug people about like what's on their wall. You know. I go out on walks with the dog and I get deep into the woods and I let them off the leash, and ninety nine times out of one hundred, everyone you encounter is going to if you encounter anyone is going to be delighted because they're sweet dogs.

1:10:47 And then there's that one person that flips out, and you know, so I they're right, the dog should be on a leash, So I put them on a leash. But what tends to happen with me is I get overwrought when i'm somebody gets in my face, and so I no longer have time for holding on to that nonsense. Yeah. I grew up in a family where we didn't talk our issues out. You just pushed them down, And so I'm better at talking things out, and I'm also just better at like that's driving me nuts, I need to let it go. And you know, meditation is great for that. Yeah, I get to I get to choose how I respond to things. But that doesn't really answer your question of I ain't.

1:11:35 Got you didn't have a problem with anything, right, nothing bothers you? Oh No, things still bother me. No, I just I just think I cope better and it's better for me from a mental health perspective to not get all wrapped up in stuff. Yeah, I get that, thank you a shallower level. Whereas with books I'm reading or music I'm listening to or movies I'm watching. If I'm not really into it, I can then well, you know I started it, so I'll finish this movie at this book, this album or whatever. I'm like, you know what, let's if I knew I just had like another week left, would I want to keep watching this movie or go do something else? So I like, I give things on streaming like ten to fifteen minutes and I'm like.

1:12:27 Nope, Kevin Can's so good. Yes do it? Yes, I have. I have a better response to your question, and that is I leave the theater at intermission. A lot. I have trouble with the like live theater, yeah, movies a. Lot, A number of sort of the touring companies of shows. I leave an intermission, and it's not because they're the touring company, just because I just don't like them and I'm not going to stick around for another hour. So ninety minutes no intermission. That's my idea of great theater.

1:13:13 Yeah, I'm going to see local production of Zana Do tonight, which I'm hoping that I don't walk out of it. I thoroughly enjoyed Xanadua like three times, and it was obsessed. So I have high expectations. Okay, okay, guys, So here's the last question. Who would play you on television or in the movies? I saw this question, and we'll always highlighted. I want it to be Kenneth Brana, but I think it's probably going to end up being John Lithgow because I often get told you look like John Lithgow. But I'd really like it to be Kenneth Brown. Okay, I can see it. I can see, I could see or if the two of them had a baby.

1:13:53 For sure that would be that would be right. I mean it's a hypothetical. So why not we'll do some geene splicing and we go there you. Go, Kevin, I highlighted this inside. I know a few days ago, gentlemen, you had much I. Think in the past someone said Roddy McDowell okay, interesting. And not because of his I think we've lost Joe to it. No, I'm thinking. Someone slapped Joe in the head. No, I was thinking about Roddy mcdowllan. That kind of works. I mean, he's got your build, and he's kind of brainy, and you know, and by all accounts a wonderful human being.

1:14:34 And okay, and it's not because of the other rumor about Roddy McDowell. Yeah, there's that, which is. What Well, this is a family show, gentlemen. But not because of it, or not solely. When you say he's well in doubt, is I mean he's rich. Yes, people have donated it like an endowment. Okay, how about how about I always want to say silly and but I think he pronounces it Killian Murphy Murphy. He always looks a little freaky to me, like like like he's from another like like he's part. Alien or something. Okay, so he always like I'm always like a little off put by him. But I see, I see where you're going.

1:15:18 Okay, Well, when we have you back, I'm gonna give you more time to study that one. So here's the lightning round a quiz. It's a lightning round. You just have to answer, okay, both of you when you at the same time. Red wine, white wine, champagne, beer or nothing. Red white wine. The sweeter, the better, got it? Movie comedy horror or romance, horror, Friends, will or friends. Oh will, oh willing grace? Okay? Good cats or dogs? Dogs? We have dogs, but I love cats. Okay, you can't answer that way. Sweet snacks or savory snacks. So sweet, sweet sweet? Okay, thinking like chocolates.

1:16:00 It's called the lightning round. This is lightning city life or small town cityway city life? Okay. Sushi or tacos. Tacos, that's a good one. Cook or do the dishes? Cook dishes? Okay, there's a very simple questions. Don't think about them. Pineapple on pizza or yes or no? Yes? Yes? Kids or pets pets? Well, I knew it, I knew it. Well, how do you respond to that? Well, you can say both pets pets. Like housewives or survivor. Survivors neither never watched the Housewives? Okay, okay. Time travel twenty years in the past or twenty years in the future.

1:16:44 What twenty years in the past is so far enough? Like our current. I'll go in the future. I'll go to the future. What do you say, like our current self gets to go back or our current. Back or twenty years as you are as you are now. So I'm not eighty, I'm sixty twenty years in the future. Is that correct? You can be sixty in either direction. I go in the future to see if we survive this Era. Okay, that's a hard one. I'm sorry you're still thinking I'm flummuxed. That's a good one. It's okay, that's okay, that's okay. Last question, I'm gonna go with Dary. I'll go with gone. Okay, Gary, Gone, Era, Gone.

1:17:25 A lot of so much. So we want to thank our guests Joanne Flug and Fanny Flag for joining That's today, guys. It was really a pleasure speaking with you. I'm I'm very excited to hear what you guys are doing now and what has happened and transpired and what you have created for yourselves now. It seems like life is pretty good for you, guys. Quick lightning round question for the two of you. Gary, are you retired or still working? Garry, I'm still working. I'll be sixty three next month, so I'm targeting age sixty seven or four more years. And I'm thirty eight, so I'm going to wait a few years until i get my pension. But no, I've definitely been contemplating it in the last couple of years. Quickly, back to your other point. We've just finished our trust, our wills, all of the directions, all those things. We so wet which are so important to make sure that we can actually make a very good, educated decision about this.

1:18:24 So I'm looking the next couple of years. So the youngest person here is the only one who's retired. Basically, but he's Sally has got a pretty full schedule. So yes, oh you can use that term retirement, but right retired from because. Well, I'm not super busy. As you'll recall, when we tried to schedule this stuff, you said, can you give us some dates? That were times? I have any time? Nothing? You were so busy, both of you. I was, I'm the busiest person should say what's available, because I can make anything work. That's what she said. Yeah, you're busy knitting, doing your triathlon at your book club, like I have no idea how any directing direct Yes, and you're you're teaching classes and doing musicals and going out to Broadway shows all the time. So neither one of you has any time. Don't hide behind that scarf show Andrewes. Okay, guys, thank you so much for joining us.

1:19:23 It was great. That a lovely time. Thank you guys. It's wonderful to. Edit you down. I will I will edit you both down. To five minutes. So this podcast will only be three and a half minutes long. And it will just be the two of you. Yes it will. Sorry, our guests couldn't show up today. Sorry, I'll just be clips of us, Gord, So thank you again for joining us, Scary. I'm sure you feel the same. I do. Thank you both, like wonderful, Yeah you do. It's just a real time. Here, I feel. The last time I saw you in person, you're still working at Macy's at the Hillsdale. Well the job I have now Macy's. I've only been working for my boss for thirty seven years. My goodness, And what are you doing. I'm an admin assistant like excellent, I'm I'm a Kevin Yeah so yeah, yeah, I've been and I work from home now because we decide we don't, we don't need to.

1:20:14 I work from home. Yeah. So I'm in my office and my dannerym all at once. Oh there we go. Okay, So I'm going to press the stop button, do not go away yet because I want this to finish. So I get to stop on a guys, and we're back. Well that was a lot of fun. Oh my god, it was so good to see them they're funny. They're very funny guys. I think I think they actually are in touch with each other off this obviously. Sure, they're very funny. I don't remember the last time I saw them in person. For Joe, it could be high school for Kevin. Anybody lives in Milwaukee. So that's Minneapolis. That's right, it's the other m Thanks Mary. So we read any close remarks. Are we ready to shut it down?

1:20:56 No? I think that maybe we need to ask ourselves some of these questions next time about who would play us in a movie? And oh lord, I gotta think about that one. Okay, anyway, why don't you shut us down? Well, well, I will close this out. I don't want to shut us down because we still have more episodes to go. All right, well, then we're ready to shut it down, close it out. Whatever on behalf of Don and Gary doing sixty. I'm Gary. Want to thank you for joining us on another episode. We'd have some in the can, as they say, and we have for sure two more guests lined up that we haven't recorded yet, so we're very excited about that. So we will continue to bring you more guests. If you are interested in joining us or if you know of someone or maybe a topic that you want us to talk about, you can reach out to us to various platforms through our website, which you can find on pod page. And is this where I do the point pot page?

1:21:49 Now you have to do it here? Oh wait, one, two, three, pot page pot page. We'll go with that, all right, whatever, we'll practice. So that's our website and through that you can reach any of our platforms, which for the visual part where you get all of this, it's YouTube and that's super five for pod productions, right. And then if you just want to listen to us as you drive from work or drive the kids. Around, drive yourself crazy. Drive yourself crazy. Now you can listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and your favorite other platforms if you want to reach and of course social media. We're on Instagram and Facebook. You want to send us a message, that's Don and garydoin sixty at gmail dot com. We're also in blue sky. I mean, we're everywhere, where aren't we where?

1:22:38 Exactly? Where are we? Not? Right? So come back and check out this as often as possible. And when you check us out on those platforms, be sure to like, subscribe, leave us a message via the pod page. You can leave a voice on message, write a review, can they add photos. Or you can actually contribute to the blog if you'd like to. Okay, and I think I'm not sure that's a good question. I will share some of the voicemails we've gotten now because I want everyone to start doing it right. And there's pressure, but there's no pressure. But we'd love for you to send us a message, leave a voicemail, a sage email us, whatever you should. You know. With that said, I think we're done.

1:23:19 Okay, you have a great weekend, Gary, Thank you you too. I'll talk to you soon. Bye bye,