#4 Natallia Berdnikava The first woman to jump over 190 feet

Lynn:   0:02
welcome to creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now here's your host, Lynn Carnes.

Lynn:   0:18
Hello, everybody. And welcome to the creative spirits Unleashed podcast. This is Lynn Carnes, your host. And today I am so excited to introduce to you Natallia Berndikava  This conversation came about through complete serendipity because I was down at Jack Travers International water skiing at Sunset, lakes in December and had a chance to, I just ran into Natalia Nati, as I call her when I had gotten off the water from one of my slalom ski sets. And as we usually do, we started a conversation that what was going to go down, that sort of realm of performance under pressure and so forth, and I had the presence of mind to say, Whoa, stop! Let's record this conversation. I would love to have you as a podcast guest, and she agreed so very soon after that, we were recording the conversation you are about to hear. It was fascinating because I got so much more than I expected. I knew we were gonna talk about performance and mindset under pressure and recovery and we do all of that. But we actually start with her growing up in Belarus and what it took for her to end up in the United States and how she has come to love this country and the freedoms it  offers. So I really believe you're gonna enjoy hearing those things. Now who is Natalia Berdnikava. She is the first woman to jump over 190 feet that on water skis. Mind you, this is not a small thing. And she is the first woman to trick over 9000 points. She is one of the top competitors in the world and has been for a number of years.  Her titles are numerous, and you should just go to the show notes to read her bio because it's more than I can possibly,  list here. Suffice it to say that she knows a thing or two about how to perform under pressure under all of these things. She's done in her career as a winner of Masters. As a former world champion and a world record holder, you will hear some fascinating things in this conversation. I truly hope you enjoy it,  

Lynn:   2:34
Nati Welcome to the podcast.

Natallia:   2:37
Hello. How you lynn? Thanks for having me  

Lynn:   2:40
who I have here with

Lynn:   2:41
me. Let me give a little background and picture for everybody. I strategically am sitting where I can actually see the lakes at Jack Trevor's international water skiing. That was probably a bad idea, since I'm a distractible person,

Lynn:   2:57
but who I have sitting

Lynn:   2:58
here with me is Natallia Berdnikava from Belarus but now living in America, married to Jon Travers and a phenomenally great water skier of her own right, which you will have already heard about in this introduction. But welcome. Thank you for being here.

Natallia:   3:13
Yeah. Thank you. I was so excited and happy to see you skiing this morning here. I knew you were coming. You know which day and then he showed up oh Lynn is  here. Thats cool.

Lynn:   3:24
It was good. And I haven't skied for two months and

Lynn:   3:27
good. I ran my first. It was great. And actually,

Lynn:   3:31
because I'm gonna be skiing again, that, will help keep us from going too long way Have I have a date with Chris Travers to go out there and water ski, and I wish everybody could also ski your see your sweet little dog. Boomer is over here on a on a chair, and right now he's quiet if you'll hear him in the background. Anybody that follows you on social media,

Natallia:   3:53
yeah, it's not as bark in a team s.  

Lynn:   3:56
So it's funny that

Lynn:   3:58
we're getting to do this because I've been coming here for years and more than once. You and I have started a conversation. But we're on a dock,

Natallia:   4:07
right, and it's always like the same kind of conversation, right? Ease into the same topics and discussions of mental yet a mental game and fresh life and life.

Lynn:   4:18
And it's like I'm almost glad we haven't gotten to do it before because I've been craving having this conversation, and now we're sequestered. So the only person that can interrupt us is Boomer

Lynn:   4:31
embarking. No way said. So I want to

Lynn:   4:35
start by just having you describe, How did you get to be Natalia Berdnikava?

Natallia:   4:45
Well, like a little history. I started skiing and Belarus in the swimming pool. Believe it or not, 50 meter standard on Olympic sized swimming pool and you skiid and I skied there so we don't little slalom and jump there. But you can perform trick in when, you can learn tricks. Which is better because Belarus winters are pretty hard. It's whisky. Probably start skiing in April and until end of September, and then the lakes covered ice most of the time. So what would we do in the winter? So we would ski in the pool. We would get super physically fit, like off the water, and it's skiid in the pool. So it was something like some. It's better than nothing, right? Well, before that, I did gymnastics in my gymnastics coach. Yes, Oh, that's start did gymnastics. But Russian gymnastics became to the point where coaches where hitting us like if we don't do certain task by the move, their finger like right away they had a and that's how it was in Russia, like they could hit you and stuff. And my parents always told me that that's going to start. That's not how you being treated like that's not okay. No one can hit you, either it's a coach or a teacher over when that started. I know thankfully for my dad and like that's how they brought me up so I kind of quit. And then it became it became to the point also that you were spending so much time in the gym only girls, no boys. So strict coaches called constantly yelling at you, hitting you because if you're not doing things right away or how she thinks that should be executed at that moment. So I quit gymnastics, and then I got a phone call from not my coach, but like a like a girl underneath for me before helper over our shoes that you wanna go to the pool market, I'm sure 11 year old kid, I'll go to the pool and I come and I get introduced to this guy. So happened, I didn't need to have goggles or anything. I just needed the bathing suit. Then they're like, Oh, we're going to try skiing like look, skiing,  water skiing.  

Lynn:   6:47
I'm at a pool, i think we are here to swim, 

Natallia:   6:50
Yea, in general I didn't know that your skiing was a sport. I thought that just when you go on vacation and you cruise around behind the boat somewhere on the ocean, in some yelling court, or like a tourist place, so yeah, and then I I've met him. Our cardigan off. That's my coach. And yeah, that's how it starts. Skin in the pin, a pool in the pole. And then there's, like a long story. How actually came to seat in here.

Lynn:   7:16
Well, I want to hear Give me a

Lynn:   7:18
couple of the high points of that because here's here's what I'm thinking about., I think we're like a portfolio of our choices right, like we all have these moments of truth and it's interesting. You said you quit gymnastics. I have a tendency to not quit in such good circumstances. I would applaud your parents for not putting you in that role. I think a lot of times this this and we don't hit people in America.  because you're gonna

Lynn:   7:44
get done, what we've seen. You've seen what happens, but there's a different

Lynn:   7:48
way people get hit, right? And I just finished reading Andre Agassi's book Open. It's ten years later from when he stopped and his dad basically beat him into submission to become a great tennis player. He hated tennis, and I meet as I'm hearing you talk. I'm thinking, OK, that's kind of like what happened to him, and he didn't have the wherewithal to quit because it was his parents doing it. So you made that choice to quote unquote quit, but may have saved your soul, frankly,

Natallia:   8:19
right? And also brought me to water skiing.  

Natallia:   8:21
And then you're here. But this sport and even I didn't even know it was a sport.

Lynn:   8:25
Yeah, so we're portfolio of our choices. So on that journey, like, what were some of the big choices that have led you to be in this place?

Natallia:   8:35
So I mean, first of all, it was work ethics being and Belarus being an effort. If you choose a sport in Belarus, it's not. It's not like US where, for example, your parents are able to find you, and you can You can train if you want. If you want to go to the vacation, you go to the vacation at home because it's all government paid the government. The Minister of sport paid for a pays for you. You have to look if you start doing the sport and they keep you like I say in parenthesis, you have to you have some obligations to follow. Like I have to show up to practice every day because if I wouldn't be doing it, or even if I would have, like some kind of vacation is my parents or wherever they could have got rid of me and Be like Okay, we have another kid who could possibly be more disciplined. So that was that. So A lot off. So But I basically until I came to college when I was already 20-21 years old, never had a vacation in my life because I was so dedicated to water skiing because that's how it was because they sponsor you to do the sport you can. You can't just go on a vacation, like for even a week or two it was training and training. So work ethics number one. And then again, coming back to my family as Much as my dad was always proud to be a Russian, he always kind of told me that I need to believe in somewhere else, like in United States, particularly because there was more freedom there, and it's more for human being. It's more . It's a better life. So it kind of always had it in my head that I most likely will move somewhere, and I didn't really want to move to Europe, Just for some reason was United States. And then my brother moves. He gets the exchange program. So he finished school? But he was in school at home in university, and he moved here and he stayed here. So, like, Okay, then my brothers here and then water skiing was so much better in US. So then I made the choice and start studying English. To try to go to Louisiana to schools to like to ski collegiately. Okay, so I contacted them, and then people like Thomas de Gaspari or Olivia  I've seen them at Europeans and they tried to recruit people. And they're like, Oh, you should maybe go to that school. And there's so many champions there at that time, Like Regina Jaquess. Yeah, Thomas. A bunch of other people are studying them, like Okay, that's what I'm gonna go. And they say It's like for for nurses, the best in the most convenient school. So then I made the choice, and I came to Monroe. Okay. That was also, like, a crazy story how it came. But I got there somehow. Yes, and then I finish  school. And then I got, like really close friends with Ryan and Brianne and Alexia, obviously, cause he was from Belarus, they're all hanging out together.  

Lynn:   11:24
So that's Ryan Dodd and Brianne Dodd 

Lynn:   11:27
Bri Ann Dodd now. And she used to be Brie on

Natallia:   11:29
back in there. Yes, in school and Alexis. So they were, like, really good friends hanging out and stuff. And I think they finish school one semester before me. So they moved to Florida. Ryan's has had a house here, right? Yes. So then I decided  

Lynn:   11:45
his dad comes here,  

Natallia:   11:46
right, Right, right, right to Jack's, right. He used to come here to Jack's now Kiss Kiss was right in Palm Bay.

Lynn:   11:51
Oh, well, of course,

Natallia:   11:52
yes. I think he has a house there now. So anyways, after school, I decided to try that, and I skied this Camilla, like I came here to ski this Camilla for the summer. So had, like,  

Lynn:   12:04
who is a famous trick coach,  

Natallia:   12:06
Really one of the best coaches who had really also great influence on me as a person. Life ski and everything like his help was tremendous to me and stuff. So I was working for him and skiing at the same time. And then there was a time. But I had to make my decision. If I'm going to go back to school for the Masters because the fall semester was coming up or I'm going to stay in Florida and try maybe a life or pro water skier like Ryan and Brianna, Lexi wanted. And I felt potential that I could do it cause I already won Masters by then and that one couple of World Cup stops really was like Yes, wow, while being in school my last year, So I was like, Well, maybe maybe I can do it as well. Then I found I talked to  Jodie Fisher and I was planning on going to, working for him and skiing with his place like that. And then I decided to skip McCormack's full tournament and i crash jumping on, and I injured my knee. So and also that period of time, I kind of got introduced to John. I kind of knew him we met at some house parties and then I broke my knee. He started taking care of me and like our relationship kind of started, so that kind of led me to stay in the U. S. And I wanted to do my rehab because it was nine months rehab in United States. I knew that in Belarus we didn't have expertise. We didn't have enough experience to get me of where I wanna be later for sports.  

Lynn:   13:38
Because that kind

Lynn:   13:39
of injury could be career ending. Don't rehab.

Natallia:   13:42
Yes. Especially back then when they didn't know much about BCL. Cruciate ligaments. Like now it's way more popular and way more females, I guess. Unfortunately, have them the women? Yep. Women? Yeah. So yeah. So that so. The relationship is John started, and I kind of already was leaning toward staying here and then Yeah, like after nine months when they recovered I started skiing at Jack's helping out here. And there you go for whatever months. How many?  

Lynn:   14:10
What year

Lynn:   14:10
was that? That you started skiing here.

Natallia:   14:13
So I got injured in 2008 and I couldn't ski that whole year. So it starts in 2009 Okay. Yeah. And then four years later, we got married.

Lynn:   14:24
Yeah, I was I was skiing here by then, but the first time I ever came I showed up at night, kind of like I did last night, but I've never been here. Had no idea where the lakes were trying to figure out what these houses were. Leilani said, Just go and we'll have it open for you. Then she came to see me, but it was dark. And when the sun rose the next morning and I saw the lake I was just crazy because I think it was 2011 and I was like, There's three lakes and I went over to the far lake and you were skiing and Todd Brewster cellie was here doing a photo shoot for the water ski magazine. Yeah, and I knew who you were, but I didn't have obviously had never met you. I had met Tom before because I was at the Fantasy Camp Water Ski Fantasy camp in 2007 and 2008. I don't think I put together that he was even there yet. I just could see there was like a photo shoot going on. Good assumption, but I didn't know for sure, but you were looking to try to figure out who I was, and I was looking to try to figure out Is that really? Is that really Natalia Berdnikava

Lynn:   15:20
Oh, gosh.

Lynn:   15:25
So that's that. I love. I love that you got here and there's something that you said I want to go back to something your dad said about being free here in the United States. And you said more like a human being. What is the non human factors of living somewhere else?

Natallia:   15:46
Well, it's It's more than the life here is set up for human beings, and you have more choice and opportunities. You make choices. You have all the opportunities to make choices, how you're going to live. So you get to make the choices is not

Lynn:   16:01
government sponsored choices based on your skills or your company.

Natallia:   16:04
Exactly. And even if its government choices at home, you have our like, how do you call it like a hierarchy , like you cannot go. You cannot go higher than that. Then the certain level. For example, if you make a choice to be in belarus to become an engineer or some kind of other profession, you know that that's you're gonna hit that,  that issue living. You're gonna hit that ceiling and that's it. You're you're not going to be able. Most likely you're not gonna be able to Go to go here you can You can have any profession you want. You could be a construction worker. You could be. I don't know. If you're willing to work and put energy and hours in it, you could be way higher than an engineer and Belarus. In fact, both of my parents are engineers. And my brother too. Well, yeah, but you can't didn't compare the life of my parents at home. And people are here. So like this, You know what I mean? Yes. And also like, it's just more convenient here. Everything in United States I feel like is designed for human being well being for their happiness. Like you just get It's just so I don't know if you want to go in your pajamas one day, you can go and no one's gonna judge you. You're gonna go in your pajamas at home. There is really strict boundaries. Yeah, off everything. And you really feel like you belong to the government. Like whatever they tell you. Now, this without your choice or with your choice, you're gonna do it like that. Here It's way more freedom that way. Like what I think like here. People I often hear say they're not gonna tell me what to do like this race Or like when you guys have your election. So government. Yeah. Oh, at home. We can say that because I know no freedom of speech like, yeah, no freedom of speech like that whatsoever. So I think my dad experienced all that and he obviously older than me. So he lived in older years, and he just knew that this life just has no potential. You just survived there. You go to work, you come home. Hopefully you have Children. That's your happiness, your wife, and it's about it. You might go see your grand parents, their parents somewhere in the village, and that's that's about it. Like people didn't really travel. People really didn't do much entertainment. We didn't even have many movie theaters to things like this when I was growing up. Or people simply didn't even have money to go through those things like John. That's funny when it comes to like some kind of extracurricular activities, like bowling or like darts. I'm not good at them. And he's like Well, how can you like you're so good in the water having, you know big. Yeah, exactly. Like from trick in coordination. I'm like, because I've never done it. Yeah, you know, it was they started building all this when I already went. Came to US. So when I was a kid, I never

Natallia:   18:44
seen bowling. ive never done dart or anything like this,

Lynn:   18:48
like so isn't that interesting?  

Natallia:   18:50
Yeah, just very different.  

Natallia:   18:51
And again, I never thought of it before. But now lately was like difference. Elections in us and everything that made me think off that stuff. So much more like the way I grew up and how things were so different at home than here. And then, of course, it incorporates it builds your character. It incorporates to your mentality, which still haunts me here. I feel like sometimes it's just so Drilled in you. Yeah, you like?  

Lynn:   19:19
So when you say

Lynn:   19:19
haunts you like how so Do you, like, beat yourself up like your teachers used

Natallia:   19:24
to? Not you know. So, for example, for example, like western countries, especially in us like, it's not uncommon to be super nice and overly nice to people, especially like sometimes even to people who give you work, for example, for a job? Yes, at home If you're gonna be nice, Nice smiling overly nice to the person who gives you job, they're gonna consider it like it's bad behavior. Like really? Yeah. You cannot show emotion. It's strictly your job. And I think here a lot of times I come out to people that I am not rude, but I'm, like, senseless that I'm not that I'm not, like open hearted and like, Super nice and the US being from Belarus, I'm like, No, I'm not supposed to do that like, thank you and that's it. And then I'll be that guy who's given me. My work is like, I think you think like your cold. Yes, exactly. Someone care. So things like that. But they're so in gilded me. I'm trying to change it, but it's so like  

Lynn:   20:22
that's a deep culture,

Lynn:   20:24
and it probably is a little bit life and death like it would affect what kind of I don't mean like you. They're gonna kill you for it. But they're not gonna give you the jobs you want, correct you and

Natallia:   20:34
right so There is a certain ways of behavior at home, which are really strictly followed. Here is here is it's more choice. It's more like lean years or

Lynn:   20:45
so you know, that's making me, like, really remember not to take what we have for granted the freedoms that we have that I've had my whole life,

Natallia:   20:56
right? Exactly. So for you, it's not even right. You're like, Oh, yeah, but that's how it is. I can give you some everyone just talking to Leilani, Jon's mom, and we have, like so many I could give you, like so many examples. Like, for example, towels . So here in US, you guys could use towels to clean the boat. Like if something happens, like you spilled water somewhere or you bring dirt is your shoes in the house? You use towel, Will you like, Oh, I'll just use my towel and always like now I'm used to it. But before I was like man towels like he was a rag, you can re wash it and whatever, like towels because, like when we grew up, I had one all my mom had a towel. My dad  had a towel from the time. That was it. And your devotion. You have that one towel. I mean, I'm exaggerating. Of course, some people maybe had more, but because towel cost 30% off your salary here, Wow, towel is five bucks. Yeah, and people making $100,000. Even if you make $20,000 what's five bucks? You can afford a towel. That's nothing. So find a story when I come home Now, my aunt still have the same towel.  

Lynn:   22:03
Thats she's had all this time  

Natallia:   22:05
Yes, and she doesn't think that she needs to buy more.

Lynn:   22:07
That's her towel what isn't that interesting? Like this morning, I That's me dropping the microphone. Hopefully, the sound person can help me with that. I can't not talk with my hands. You're doing a better job. Not you have a very emotional. So this morning when I got here to the house and I was getting ready to take my shower, I looked for the towels and I thought, you know, because we actually do rental houses at Mystic Waters where we have the ski school and you know, everybody gets a couple of towels, but it's just a couple of towels, and I opened the cabinet and there were, like 10 towels. And I was like

Lynn:   22:38
This'll lucky because I get to have multiple times. I don't I'm not gonna use them. But there's just something about that.  

Natallia:   22:44
Yeah, And also like when I stopped leaving this Jon so he would take one towel throw it on the floor and expect me to Wash towel and on to the next one. Yeah. So I was like, No, this cherish this one towel. Not for the sake of the towel, but also to save water to ecological. There's no need to change your towel every single time, but the point is, he never even thought of that. Never come he probably seen his dad do it He's there. Do it. His mom. It's just It's normal.  

Lynn:   23:09
Yeah, like here at the lake  it's right, like I

Lynn:   23:12
bring one towel for my ski week, and I'm so always make sure I'm in a house that has a dryer so I can dry it because you leave it out there like it rained today. If I if I had hung it up and be soaking wet, then how do I get dry? And it's cold.

Natallia:   23:27
Yes. So, like things like this. So now Jon has one towel you try using a little bit longer and hang it to dry, not just throw it on

Natallia:   23:36
the floor.  

Lynn:   23:37
That's good well. So, with that freedom that you've had here, too, have more towels and kind of do what you want. You've obviously really taken to being here in terms of becoming an amazing water skier. You're one of the best trick women and jumping women There is. You're a damn good slalom skier Too do three events  I would give anything to slalom skis, which is my one? I'm a one trick pony. It's what my one thing to do? What would you say has been the source of your mental toughness to become such a good competitors? Because there are. You know, it's interesting what I've seen and skiing more than almost anything because it happens so fast. It's so unforgiving. It's maybe the most unforgiving sport that I have ever seen. One mistake in almost everything that you're done right where the right it's trick or jump or whatever, and you obviously prone to injury as well. But so it's There's a lot of skiers that let's call him at a certain plateau that in practice can perform at the same level you perform. But then the pressure comes on as, Austin and I who are, you know, Austin Abel, who runs the ski school of Mystic Waters. We call it The red light comes on. It's like the camera comes on, all right, it's It's funny. The moment comes and now you have to perform and you perform What is your to the willing to the extent you're willing to divulge it. But I'm going to say you can probably divulge your secrets because I think it's hard for people to do it. I think there's a big difference between knowing what somebody's doing and actually doing it for yourself,

Natallia:   25:14
Right, right, right, right, right. So what is your secret? So I'd say, honestly, when I was growing up, I was also like one of those skiers when I was in Belarus who would ski way better in practice, and then I had butterflies. I was so nervous, I didn't know how to control it, so I just worked on it. I had a couple of people helping me working on the psychological part of it. Yeah, off mental. I kind of always knew how I wanted to  perform had some role model role models of athletes from different sports, and I was like, Oh, I want to be like this I Second it's I knew that you need to perform like I was aware that I need to learn how to perform at that moment when I need to perform. And I just worked over it with help. I used help of professional people and they helped me and I was working super hard on it. So yeah, look at some point, like last year when I so computer that Europeans I remember standing on the dock and I was like, Man, like I got it kind of thing You know what I mean by myself? I said it like I got you know, like a kind of you that yes, butterflies and you feel nervous. It's actually good. You need that like I need that. But I also knew how to control it, and I know  

Lynn:   26:24
what is what is

Lynn:   26:25
your number one trick or if a couple of practices for controlling it because, for example, I'll give you one that I've learned. Actually, the first time I ever tested is out here with Chris.  and I had seen a study where they had people do, karaoke e. It was called ambush karaoke, and there was no difference in their singing. They just divided them in three groups. And they said Group One. Try to be calm group two. You know, we know you're nervous. Just be nervous. Group three, we know you're nervous, but call it excitement. Just reframe what the butterflies feel like. So the calm people were supposed to actually try to stop the butterflies. The nervous people were supposed to say, yet that's nerves. And the excited people were supposed to kind of reframe the butterflies. Well, I heard that on the way here, that study. And so I go out to ski with Chris, and I was nervous like I was this morning because I haven't skied in several weeks

Lynn:   27:20
on and we always been everybody that shows

Lynn:   27:22
up that are like does the same thing is they haven't skied for awhile there, like

Lynn:   27:25
I don't know if I still know how to do it. And of course, you

Lynn:   27:28
know, I got on the water. But that day I remembered looking at Chris, and I

Lynn:   27:31
said Chris. I'm so nervous. And

Lynn:   27:32
then I remembered the study and I said,

Lynn:   27:35
I'm excited and use it to your yes, it's him and that

Lynn:   27:41
one reframing that day I skied my first pass off the dock, which I can't guarantee you I'm always gonna do, especially under circumstances. But since I started working on it, I've gotten actually, Austin says, I have red light syndrome , meaning that when the red light goes on, I actually ski better. That's one of mine, like tricks. So give me an example

Natallia:   28:03
of one. So what you just said? Also, I use that. Okay, so I used that second IS Visalia visualization. So I know exactly what I want to perform on the water. And they predict what can happen, for example, in my head like that can happen. That could happen. So I try to get rid of that and know exactly what I want to do. So, for example, for example, when you do a slalom set, I think off two things. If I try to think of three things, it's always too much, which are like vital things. For example, for me, it's been on my front foot being wide on my gate like I know if I would do that, most likely I will run the most critical pass for me. And maybe there is one more thing, for example, having the handle higher 1,3,5 So I don't drop my shoulder. So I know those three things and they try to visualize them of me Skiing in my head. That's the toughest part is to see you. Actually, skiing is your head. So that was the majority of my work with those people professional to get to that point  

Lynn:   29:05
where you

Lynn:   29:06
could visualize it cleanly. Now, have a question. Okay, so let's look it slalom, for you, For Me, it's like a 19 second for you. It's what, 17 seconds?

Natallia:   29:16
16 95 16 95.

Lynn:   29:18
So, and believe it or not, for the non slalom skiers listening 17 seconds versus 16 95 which is .05 different,

Natallia:   29:26
which could be a reride.  

Lynn:   29:27
But not only could it

Lynn:   29:29
be a reride, it actually makes a difference. Things were happening that fast that you will notice the difference between that small of a time difference. But that's my point is what I have found is when I feel like I'm skiing great. Everything goes in slow motion. Then I visualize in slow motion and then I go out on water and I don't ski as well because I've visualized it too slow. So how do you visualize real time so that you're recognizing how fast things might be happening,

Natallia:   29:58
So that also comes from feeling your body and feeling you like there's techniques how to teach you and that's where you actually start. Start off. There's techniques like you close your eyes and you start feeling movements like deep down in your fingers, deep down in your toes. I don't remember already those techniques bu theres books on it, so I started from that also. Then you learn how to feel your body like feel every part of your body every every cell of your body. So you learned that. And then once you know that when you have such a control of your body, it's so much easier to get visualization. you know what I mean. So you  

Lynn:   30:37
So you start with a feeling.  

Natallia:   30:39
Yes, you start with the feeling of your body. Once you feel your body, it's way easier to visualize yourself skiing like you said full speed in your head and I know it's still not easy. You still work on it. But I know when I got it. Like when I know in my head I see I'm gonna ski.Good. That's good. Now likely you'll ski. Good  

Lynn:   30:57
question

Lynn:   30:57
on that, because the feeling thing. Okay,  even though I grew up in America and didn't have the kind of background you had, you know, every little thing kind of caused me to numb myself. So I got to the point where I actually couldn't feel my body. So there was a point where when I first started on a self awareness journey where somebody said, Well, what is that emotion feel like? And I couldn't tell him because I was like, Well, I'm just shut down like I'm Numb. And so have you had that kind of experience where you had tune in, or were you already? Because you're an athlete so tuned in to your body that you could immediately start feeling like you said every cell of your body.

Natallia:   31:37
I think it took some years, but it was mostly inclined to that that was kind of like immediately started to feel look cellular, but then it also but then also, like experiences the tournaments like doing more things, being in different surrounding seeing, how other people do it. Also, being really into reading a lot like that also incorporates to the success. It's not just like closing my eyes and then look all I see 11,000 point run and I do it. Yeah, like if  it all like learn how to feel your body and insides meditation. Breathing all this lead you to visualize yourself and you're skiing in your head way more clear and way faster and easier.  

Lynn:   32:17
So it's not just one thing, because I heard a bunch in there. because meditation,  

Natallia:   32:21
meditation,

Lynn:   32:22
which helps quiet your mind. Tell me what kind of meditation you do.

Natallia:   32:25
So I use a lot of help, like I used to like even some Aps or like youtube things and different ones.  

Lynn:   32:32
Do you have a

Lynn:   32:32
favorite app? I have a few that I like. I do calm sometimes, and I've done Andy. What's What's the Tin? Oh gosh,I can't remember what it's called . It's called headspace.

Natallia:   32:44
Headspace? Yeah, I thought of that for me. Like ap thinks I use just one like to calm down breathing, like when a need to fall asleep or something like this. But most of the time I've been using just YouTube channels and it's it's in Russian because I think when it's in Russian for some reason to get me to my deep core inside, it helps me a little bit easier. To hear it in Russian  

Lynn:   33:08
because  that's your , native tongue. And yeah, it's going

Lynn:   33:10
to go in at a deeper level. Your subculture largest because with English is your second language,

Natallia:   33:15
right? Yeah. So look, I listened to that and like she teaches you different ones. If I need to get pumped up, I'll listen to, like encouragement. Then, if l need To, get rid of bad thoughts, then I'll listen to certain podcasts of hers or like meditation. The US Yeah, and then breathe  Just kind of from sports from my trainer's fee zeros. Just reason myself kind of like how to breathe. So, yeah, all that leads you to clear your head and you start feeling your body. Yeah, way better. after  that, you become like visualization is way easier.  

Lynn:   33:49
Breathing is huge, and I have to

Lynn:   33:52
be reminded all the time to breathe. So have you reached the point where you can breathe without having to remind yourself? Or do you still catch yourself still

Natallia:   34:00
engaged myself and still have to tell myself  

Lynn:   34:03
That's so good to hear?

Natallia:   34:04
Especially especially when you're exercising. It's like I'm breathing. Yeah, I'm not breathing. And then when you do breathing in, you're like, Man, my stamina goes up. It's so much when you just

Natallia:   34:14
from breathing it's,  

Lynn:   34:16
You know, when I first started on my coaching journey, I was trying to find something better than breathing like it's like Surely I can invent something more original than breathing right? There's nothing better. It's like it's like the root and, you know, there's a There's a thing that says if we don't have breath, we die in three minutes so we can go without water for three days. We can go without food for 30 but we can't go without breath for three minutes.  

Natallia:   34:42
That's a good analogy.  

Lynn:   34:43
And yet we here we are with our little you know, shallow breathing and and everything I do, I have to remember to breathe, right. So I'm glad to hear that I'm not, You know,

Natallia:   34:54
you know you're on the right. Is the right path

Lynn:   34:57
mere, mortals. So the other thing

Lynn:   34:59
I was hearing you mentioned meditation in your secrets and another one was experience. And

Lynn:   35:07
I have a question

Lynn:   35:08
about that, too, because it's interesting I have in my coaching and actually, when I used to teach people how to do banking back in the day, we talked about experience, and what we would see is some people they would get they would actually like, learn from their experiences and other people. It was almost as if. They had 20 years of experience, but it was the same year, over and over again. So is one year of experience 20 times.

Lynn:   35:35
And I've seen

Lynn:   35:35
people do this in almost all the competitive sports I've been in where they look like they're working, they look like they're learning, but they're really not s o. They have all these tournaments under their belt, but they're still never gonna be any better than a, you know, two or three buoys shy of their practice, no matter what they do. So how do you make experience in the tournament's actually count? Count,

Lynn:   36:01
count? That's it. Count. I think it's number one is going into this is open mind and learning. So you know that every experience is going to be something to learn about. And you're gonna take something from it instead of like what you say. Just ski and whatever happens, happens so and 2nd one that's being acknowledge that some things can happen and you need to learn from your experience. So I think if you come in for so somebody making mistakes, yes, you're not gonna be perfect, right? But you need to take something out of it you need to be with, come in it with It was in it was open mind, and I need to take something from it. So I think if you're gonna come into every tournament like that, yeah, you've learned so much more because there's always something to take. And always something happens and you're not a robot. You feel different every day. But if you're going to start thinking about it like all I need to maybe a journal in these things, how I failed, like basically, just tell yourself that you need to make it count like every experience, to have something from a journal how you felt like what you took from it, what you didn't take from it. And then based on that, like build your experience toward becoming a better performer. Better competitors, right? But you're right. If you just go without open mind, if you just go with it without any goal, too. We earn or journalize your experience. Then it's going to be you could do 20 100. It's going to be all the same, right? If you don't pay attention.

Lynn:   37:26
So in your thinking of open mind, what would be the opposite of having an open mind like, What does that look like

Natallia:   37:33
without open the mind? It's maybe, like some people, like all I'm going to ski good today or whatever, not saying that as an encouragement. And if the ski bad, they can't handle the situation that have been attitude bad mood? Yes, because I throw their skis. Yeah, over like that. Yeah, they're saying that they don't let experience in life happen, which is inevitable. It's just how it is. But if you'll go with open minds with it and you learn and you may be Write, what happened? How you felt why this happened? Guess what? Next time it probably won't happen because you already will know how to control it. Yeah, like how to deal with this. But if you don't take it out more than just this experience of get skiing bad and thrown the ski don't journal. If you don't think for the next time it's gonna happen next time and the next time and the next

Lynn:   38:23
time. So it's interesting because that's one of the things I've journaled for years. A lot of my journals need to be thrown away.

Natallia:   38:32
Secrets? Yeah, I was doing it so much, too. And then I was like, Man, maybe it's too much. But

Lynn:   38:37
you are mentioning yet another practice that is really useful for making yourself better, which is writing things down writing, putting him in a journal,

Natallia:   38:47
right? And also, you know, you number one thing. You need to have a desire and real motivation to learn how to become a better athlete, to learn how to become a performer, like I had huge desire to become a better performer, better as it was so interested in meditation and breathing. And, yeah, like how to become better how to become titanium when you stand in the dark and know that you're gonna jump, but you need to jump. So my motivation was huge, so I did everything possible to make it better. But not a lot of people have that. Or don't think it's important.  

Lynn:   39:19
This is true. Yeah, this is so  

Natallia:   39:20
Then it becomes just the tournament, and then the mistakes can happen again. And then again and again and they get frustrated but nothing changes.  

Lynn:   39:27
Well, it's interesting

Lynn:   39:28
because we're not filming this so people can't see. But I'm watching your hand move. And as you describe motivation, it's almost like you're pointing to the inside of yourself. Like I had motivation. It came from within you and not from external like I haven't heard. You once say anything about the external accolades or the gratification you get other than what comes from inside of you. That's right. So that's your inner fire burning.

Natallia:   39:54
Yes, and also like when I grow up. My dad had always said again, if you do something, do with 100% or 120% and basically so that basically taught me to live my life that everything is my choice in my decision. You're independent. It's not doing things because your parents want you to do it. You're not doing water skiing because your mom or your dad wants you to ski. you're not going to school and get good grades because your parents want you to do it or it's all it's the standard, so it always had higher standards. So whatever you do, whether it's school ski and being nice to someone like taking care of someone, you always do the best you can. So ever since the hearing in this all the time, I guess I have no other choice. How to If I do something, it's gonna be like This is going to be up to the higher standard for you fom  

Lynn:   40:44
What's Interesting. There's a saying that I took it serious, but there's

Lynn:   40:48
a saying I hear a lot where they'll say You better do it right or don't do it at all. And that's very different than doing it 100% because right is an external judgment, right? Right, right. If you say you know, if you know somebody could say, Well, I still not good enough and then we start. Just think we're not good enough, But in this case. Yeah, I said you gives you the shivers when people think you're not good enough like you. You just said I'm gonna show up to the best of my ability, my ability. And if it's not gonna be, give me the goal I want. I'm gonna learn. I'm gonna meditate. I'm gonna channel my butterflies. I'm gonna do whatever I have to do to channel it back and make myself Yes, ma'am. This and so it's It's an internal motivation.

Lynn:   41:31
Yes, it's amazing what you

Lynn:   41:32
get thinking about that like and how passionate you are s so cool. So tell me about where you are right now in your journey. I think I don't know how much you want to talk about like what you're working on right now, but I would love to hear kind of what you're growing edge at the moment is what your setbacks have been, and particularly like when you're because I think on. And I think by definition, growing edges have setbacks. Whether it's injury, whether it's, you know, you try 700 times. I know when I first, I think it was maybe the first or second time I ever skied with April Coble Eller, who is mostly a slalom skier but used to trick. And she was doing flips, which I was pretty darn impressed by until I saw your flips

Natallia:   42:14
a good skier,

Lynn:   42:16
but she got off

Lynn:   42:17
the water, and this is what she said, and it has stuck with me all these years, she said. It took me 500 falls to learn that flip, and I always measured my success from when I was a little bitty kid. Like whether it's roller skating or riding a bicycle, or even my first time waterskiing years and years ago was how many falls I didn't take. In other words, the less falls, the better I was, which is exactly the opposite of learning SO On your growing edge, you're gonna have setbacks. You're gonna make mistakes. You've got to. So tell me where you are right now. What kind of things you overcome and how do you overcome them? How do you push through plateaus? Setbacks, injury?

Natallia:   42:59
So it's funny you say that because how many falls you didn't take? That's how I grew up in Belarus. Believe it or not, that was my mentality. So if I would take a lot of second. No, it's too hard that I'm doing something right. Like like that's not. And then when it came to US and I so different people like, just got so much experience in, like now it's just hard work having to work hard. Oh, you just have to keep falling hard work. And that's actually cool. Like when you're working hard, it's like a home. It wasn't like when I was younger. It wasn't cool. Like if you don't learn things in two seconds like it's not cool if it takes you to learn so much because we had, like, I had so many talented kids around me. So, for example, like we were like measuring. If it takes you 10 tries and that girl took one try, I was not cool at all. But in this country it's opposite like hard work actually off it can pay off, and it values like it's you get respect for Hardwork so that one of them, then like, for example, my knee injuries, I don't know. I just always loved water skiing. That's what I understood from my knee injuries that I always loved water skiing so much in the way that it made me so happy inside. Yes, Like nothing would like a drug like a drug like my whole mentality. My whole Like I would do one sec after the knee injury and I'm a, I come home. I'm like, Oh, my God, I didn't have any set goals. I didn't even know if I could scare the tournament, but I was already like, Okay, endorphins makes him life Makes sense now, ever since. Good will like you know what I mean? Not even goes. But I just felt really good. So that was the overcoming setbacks just the lawful patient for patient, for

Lynn:   44:34
the sport that you know what? That you just hit something that for people there's gonna be a lot of non waters years. Listen, this podcast wondering what we have,

Natallia:   44:44
you don't even know how to explain it. But the first

Lynn:   44:46
time, what changed me from being a get up and just ride behind the boat to a tournament water skier eventually and cutting back and forth was a friend that did that and she got back in the boat and she goes,

Lynn:   44:57
that's the She said, That's the best. I never she said. Maybe even like she said, it's the second best

Lynn:   45:03
thing. Of course, we know what the first thing was.

Lynn:   45:05
She does. But maybe it's the

Lynn:   45:06
first best thing. Anyway. I wanted to have what she was having. I was like that kind of feeling. I've never done anything that created a feeling. And I'm kind of still riding on the endorphin. High from skiing this morning. After seven weeks of not

Lynn:   45:17
skiing, it's incredible. It's like life

Lynn:   45:19
all of a sudden makes sense. Yeah, body comes alive. The endorphins. I have actually experienced it closely now that I'm back too, riding I told you. I'm riding horses again after my bad accident. And I'm getting good instruction because guess what I learned in water skiing. Get good instruction. Don't go out and just try to hammer your way through. You're gonna make a lot of unnecessary mistakes Yes. And you know, yes, you're going to still make mistakes, but have somebody explain it to you and I, the first time I ever at a trot with no stirrups moved the horse from a relaxed state instead of like this kind of up tights. tense state and had that horse respond to me with fluidity and like we were like we were one being

Natallia:   46:01
life makes sense

Lynn:   46:02
Whole life made sense 

Lynn:   46:04
on That endorphin kick lasted for 24 hours like the rest of the day, and the next day I was like walking on a kind of sunshine

Lynn:   46:12
that is addictive.  

Natallia:   46:14
So do you think like, for you horse was more that you achieved something versus ski and you don't even need to achieve? Just being on the water makes you happy Or you also still need to achieve something and ski to be happy. No, I mean on the horse, you just the same. Look, you just get happy because you being on the horse.  

Lynn:   46:31
I think it's the

Lynn:   46:32
getting being on the horse. I think it's finding that relaxed state of being. I'm trying to work this out right now because when I'm sking my best, I'm in a relaxed but focused state? And on the horse, I was in a relaxed but focused state because she said, relax and then I'm like a lump on a log log and she was no, no ride, and I was like, Yeah, but how do I ride and relax at the same time I had the right, right, right, and it made me think about, I don't watch much golf, but I watch Masters last year when Tiger mate has come back. And the thing that struck me the most when he was walking up to the 18th green was how relaxed he was. And I'm like, How the hell on a comeback with his story? Is that man walking with that level of ease? And it wasn't a faked. Relax. You can tell the difference and it. But yet he was focused and that's that, like fine line. It's almost like a tight rope trying to learn to walk. So I think with a horse, I caught that moment where I was relaxed, focused at the same time, like I was riding.

Natallia:   47:34
You let your body do the war instead of you had control.  

Lynn:   47:37
But I

Lynn:   47:37
was in flow with that horse and, you know, in skiing we have to be in flow with the boat. We can't win, and frankly, you can't with a horse either. Like a boat and a horse have a mind of their own. And you're just never gonna win If you try to go against the way the physics are constructed or the way the horse is constructed. You can't. You have to go with what's there

Natallia:   47:58
and probably also cool, cause it's outside like an animal. Always positive energy. Like to me all the animals are like that. Same as being more skiing. Just being on the water, being a side sport. I think when I was a kid that for so much more fun to be outside skiing, even in the pool skiing being looked in the gymnastics team for six hours indoors where. Yeah, you can do anything.  

Lynn:   48:20
The water is fresh, right?

Lynn:   48:23
Yeah. Yeah. So, so on which we got a little bit. We talked about the setbacks and so forth because you you're coming back, you know, because you love it so much. So have you got any goals for the next year? Do you have any, like, you set goals to You know, to say I'm going to go, you know, win masters or

Natallia:   48:44
I mean at a certain time. But how do you look at this point, I kind of have them. I kind of have him in my head like what I want to achieve. But at this point, you know, I struggled to is another injury knee injury last March at Moomba. I'm recovered from it now, Fortunately, so everything's good, but as far as next year. I'm just going to kind of take it easy and see where my body will take me. Yeah, I'm gonna let myself a way more attention to my body instead of just pushing through just for the sake of an achievement again, just good. Just for the sake, of getting  second that the monsters or gets in a better trick score. But, of course, like on the back of my head. Of course, if I'm going to ski, that's going to be. That's going to be What I want to do of your head won't improve, but I don't know. We'll see. We'll see how my body will let me do that and what my

Natallia:   49:32
body will let me know.  

Lynn:   49:33
It's interesting. So I remember speaking of your body, I was down there on the starting dock a couple of years ago. Maybe it was probably more than a couple of years ago, and you were rolling on long up. foam roller never forget what you said. You said I have promised my body that if I go do that and you pointed to the lake, I'm going to take care of it like this. So say a little bit about how you came to that realization and what you do to take care of your body.

Natallia:   50:01
So you know when you're young and even like when you go through some injuries you just used to put in certain forces certainly limits on your body. Look, for example, if he used to ski in five sets a day when you were a kid for overall skier, then even when something hurts. You still gonna push yourself? Because this is what you used to. And you think this is the only way to success? Sure. And then afterwards, when you're a kid, you don't doing stretches. You don't do anything to reset your body back to normal until unless it until we started getting injuries. So my back started to hurt a lot. So then I figure out I'm like, Man, my knees now my back, like it's it's becoming a bit more serious to just be able to ski because I love it so much right? I can like scheme is so important. I need to be able to ski. So to be able to ski, I need to be very good to my body because if I don't have my body, I cant ski. But to have my body good in a good state, still being able to ski at the level I wanted to ski, I needed to see if easy or I needed to see a massage therapist, and I needed to spend time stretching rolling and to reset my body after I had no choice. So I made in my head. I made myself a promise. If I want to push myself and take another trick set, which, for example, I don't feel like taken, I'm going to spend an hour or two afterwards, seeing the fees, your or resetting  my body so I can ski again so I could do what I love, what I really need, like a drug. That's brilliant because I

Lynn:   51:27
think we underestimate recovery in every aspect of life, but water skiing, especially because it's so addictive. So you want to ski that extra set and then you're tearing your muscles down more than ever. And I have found that I ski so much better when I quit skiing two or three set a day and I went to one and maybe two sets a day And just just like what happened just now, seven weeks later, even though I'm not, haven't been skiing a lot of why i skiid so Well, this morning was because I came in really strong. Yeah, because I'd had all that recovery.

Natallia:   51:58
Yeah. And see the first thing I told you this morning. You're like, Oh, I haven't skied for whatever. Eight weeks. Good. I'm so excited to see people like finally understand and educating themselves like that. You need to have a break. Yes, for the sake of proven mental cause, not sometimes even how you feel mentally you have to reset like it's okay to have two or three months off in the season. But you said it's hard to do sometimes so addicted, and you want to get one more buoy. There's one more trick, so But I've done that. I've done so much of those mistakes. So we're one more trick when we'll try. One more jump led me to not being able to ski a weeks afterward because my back was hurting. My knee was hurting and I couldn't handle it. It was my life. And when I was not doing what I was supposed to do water skiing, I could handle it. So recovery became number one.

Lynn:   52:44
It's so huge. And I A lot of people I work with are not athletes, their corporate athletes, they're having to perform. And actually, the bigger difference between corporate athletes I have found and all my other athletic endeavors is the time of practice versus performance. So, corporate folks, it's like their own all the time. And so they need recovery even more than ever. But they really don't have it. So they're burnout is huge, you know. People are stuck kind of in their adrenal glands, sending adrenaline all the time. They're constantly, you know, in burnout mode, rather than you know, in survival mode, rather than in like understanding, recovery, right?

Natallia:   53:26
And who knows, you know, look, looking back, I remember back in 2010 and 11 when it was full force overall, whatever, like as many sets as you can just ski ski ski I remember we did the black test in Belarus, and they're like your cortisol level is really high. And I was like, I tried to find excuses, but isn't it look, old athletes level courses, They're like, Yes, but yours is off the roof, just showing, like, how much stress I had. Do you think it bothered me back then I'm like, what do they know? What they know about cortisol? And I was like, Man, looking back, I even let myself slack at all. Didn't let myself take breaks at all Because I thought if I'm not going to ski a couple of days, I'm gonna lose this. You know, I was gonna jump 1 90 anymore. And who knows? If I would have been smarter back then, maybe it would have saved me a couple of injuries. Who knows? Who knows?  

Lynn:   54:14
Because you know that I do think

Lynn:   54:16
we are out of balance with practice versus recovery. 100% getting out, you know, like trying to find that balance. And it feels like you're slacking when you're recovering. But I have found, especially if I can get the visualization down. I can gain a lot through visualization and what's interesting. Actually, the couple of days after I had that experience with the horse, I went back to skiing. I just started shortening the year before to 22 off which for you is no big deal for me. It's

Lynn:   54:44
like I'm finally shortening.

Lynn:   54:46
But when I started feeling that relaxed focused, I was shorting the rope more but skiing less. And it was because of this whole thing about visualization, about recovery and about finding that way to stay relaxed. And I don't think you could be relaxed when your cortisol levels are high. Your survival mode makes it impossible to be

Natallia:   55:06
exactly. And it was just It was just an example from my experience, right? Yeah. And then, like something. It's funny, something you mentioned that used to ski two or three sets a day or less Been wanting more. Well, that's like coming back to the experience, like what you're talking about experience. You would just skiing for the check to without taking much our of it without maybe journal in. That's right. Be like taking what you wanted to achieve and see if you achieve it. Or didn't you see how your body felt? Yeah, and now maybe your skiing less, but it's way more effective. This is so true. So that's the same. Was the experience like going back to the experience of the tournament? This is true. They're going to become better when you're going to take them seriously and going with open mind and journal and take something from it. Learn, learn from it instead of just having and other tournament or another set.

Lynn:   55:54
Wow, that's good, right? So I have one more question about performance, and, it's this, one of the things that I've seen myself get in trouble with a lot of people get in trouble with is instead of being in the moment when I'm skiing, sometimes I will think about the people on the shoreline. Or if I'm getting photography, I'll think about the photographer and then

Lynn:   56:17
I can see myself

Lynn:   56:18
in the pictures, you know? So and you kind of Look, you gotta get me that knowing look like how do you I don't give control is the right word, but

Lynn:   56:28
how do you

Lynn:   56:29
keep yourself in the game versus sort of being that imaginary person watching yourself?Which gang while you're performing, which is insane? But we all do it.

Natallia:   56:37
Yes, which is pretty normal. This is when it happened to me. Is everybody? It's like, you know, like people call it being in the zone. How do you get in the zone?  I think it starts again from, like, feeling your body breathe in and education. And it leads you to, For example, you can put your headphones on. Listen, whatever you want to be. Some people listen to encourage and staff motivational. Yeah, Some people just listen to the songs, and I'm just able to be There's just head phones. What? I'm listening to me and my skiing. Like I came to the point. I've worked on that to feel like that. So basically, if the thought of being people watching you on the shore comes yeah, for example, I used this one technique. I write a circle of this thought in my head. Okay. And I breathe it out.  

Lynn:   57:24
Oh, that's cool. I do smoke. I will

Lynn:   57:26
actually. See the thought is a smoke. You know, like, and I pretend like I'm, like, gathering at the smoke and breathing the smoke out.

Natallia:   57:31
Yeah, well, you could be like thank you for the thought thought, Thank you. Keep going. Not me. Not to me. Not right now. And that's something to your head. It's

Lynn:   57:40
And you actually you actually watch the thought leave. Don't you.

Natallia:   57:43
Yeah, yeah, it So it helps. And then you're able to stay in just you and what you want to do in the water. And all of a sudden, that doesn't even bother you until the set is over. And then when the set is over, then you can go see Oh,  

Lynn:   57:56
go talk to the thought again. Yeah, coming

Lynn:   57:58
in while we're out here. Exactly. That's good. That's a really good one to those, Alec. Yeah, that's a good trip. Trick trick will have to, for the people listening. I hope you caught that because ah, lot of people don't believe that can control their thoughts.

Natallia:   58:13
But honestly, for me, it Lynn is the hardest. It was the hardest experience. And the hardest knowledge is to control my thoughts as much as I can control performance and learn how to make it perform my best. That this certain time and blah blah blah  controlling my thoughts. I'm still struggling with it a little bit, but I've been living alone like I've done a long journey to come to the point of, controlling my thoughts. It's hard.  

Lynn:   58:40
Well, I think we hit a

Lynn:   58:41
tipping point. You know, early on, I think all of us kind of are subject to our thoughts. So the thoughts are running us. We're not running our thoughts, right. And I don't know that there's anybody that's still alive. 100% runs their thoughts, because I think that's part of the human condition

Natallia:   58:55
right. They just come because of the other. Damn was that. But the thought just comes. Yeah. How do you like? Where is it coming from? Look what? Look. Yes, I get it. So I used to just let it beat me. I'm like ooo, the thought came. That's gonna happen. I thought that Oh, that's bad thing is gonna happen. And they totally drowned in that. Get depressed and everything. And now when the thought comes, I'm like, thank you very much. Yeah, but experience keep going. Keep for me. Well, if I can do it ride a circle, I breathe it out like that.

Lynn:   59:23
That's good. Yeah. Yeah, because we are not our thoughts, but boy. Sometimes we think we are

Natallia:   59:28
Oh, my gosh, you know, how much

Lynn:   59:29
power do we think we have? Like, I think this thing And so I could just make it happen. Well, if I can think that thing and make it happen,

Lynn:   59:36
let me think a better thing happened. Yeah, so I

Lynn:   59:39
will choose that. There's a saying I've seen it coming around social media, some that said You are not responsible for your first thought because the thought is gonna come. But you are responsible for every thought after that,  

Natallia:   59:52
man, that's

Natallia:   59:53
that's that's good. But it's it's hard to come to that, Yes, but that's that's very vice.  

Lynn:   59:57
Well it's a

Lynn:   59:58
why saying. But it's like about everything else I see on the social media where there's a wide saying it's one thing to see it. It's one thing to agree with it. It's a whole another thing to actually live it,

Natallia:   1:0:08
leave it or do it

Lynn:   1:0:09
and do it. It's that's that's the magic. So this this, your you've given a lot of really amazing tips from your amazing experience.  really appreciate you taking the time to come over and yeah, talk about this. So

Natallia:   1:0:23
I love talking about this. I could talk about this all day. I'm sure

Lynn:   1:0:26
we'll continue after the recording's gone. Sorry, folks, but we can't record all this. We've been going almost an hour, by the way.

Natallia:   1:0:33
And Boomer didn't bark, so he must have been trying to.  

Lynn:   1:0:35
Or maybe he's indifferent. Boomers

Lynn:   1:0:39
already The ski champion. He knows how to get in a boat. Cheer you, right? I've had him in the boat vheering me on before her. I'm excited,

Natallia:   1:0:46
but I have one question for you coming back to the thoughts, for example. Yeah. You know, like some people, like sometimes I tell John how I feel and he's like, Well, what do you think that I'm like? I don't know. I just think that so there is a way to control it. Absolutely. There is a way to control. Absolutely.  

Lynn:   1:1:01
And I actually think that Why do

Lynn:   1:1:03
you think that is not necessarily the most interesting question? It's the question our parents gave us.

Lynn:   1:1:10
Why would you do it that way? You just don't do it, but there's it like, and you just stop it. But there's usually something there. So I actually

Lynn:   1:1:17
like to play with, just almost exactly what you're talking about. but like taking the thought and just doing things with it. So, for example, asking myself, there's a wonderful process. Byron Katie made it famous. And it's four questions that say on any given thought. Is it true? Can I absolutely know that it's true? And whether true, yes or no doesn't really matter. But when you say can I absolutely know its true, you pretty much have to say, Well, maybe not.

Natallia:   1:1:51
Gotcha, I thought probably.  

Lynn:   1:1:53
Well, at least it

Lynn:   1:1:54
starts unless you get a fingernail under it. If you will, like, you can start loosening it up. And then the next question is, how do I react when I have that thought? So you know, then you start thinking, Okay, wait a minute. Okay. That thought is actually creating behavior in Me right? Right. Like nobody's gonna wanna have me go to the party. It's just something that came to my mind right then. Just given example. Well, how do I react when I think nobody wants me to come to their party, I start feeling down on myself. I you know, I'm gonna do whatever I do to cope. Some people go shopping, some people eat food. Some people pick up drugs. Some people drink a bottle of whiskey. I mean,

Lynn:   1:2:34
but you add it all up because you

Lynn:   1:2:35
want to medicate in a way like you want to make that feeling go away because the thought will come with an icky feeling.  and everybody's icky feeling is different. And then the final question is, who would I be without that thought? And I've taken hundreds of people through that exercise, and it's pretty amazing once that when they start describing who they would be if everybody wanted me to come to the party or if I was really capable or whatever. And so

Natallia:   1:3:03
all of a sudden, if you believe, then  

Lynn:   1:3:04
you change like you look at it,

Lynn:   1:3:06
go. That's who I wanna be now it doesn't mean it's instant, but at least what you've done is rent the idea that the thought might not be real, and then I try to have them start experimenting and living into something different, and often we will just do a turn around. So,, the turnaround is just like if the thought says nobody wants me to come to their party, the turnaround could be Everybody wants me to come to their party or everybody wants me or I'm a fun person to be around. You know, you pick the turnaround, but it's got to be the opposite of the thought That seems to be a negative thought. Yeah, and then and then you have to practice living into it. And I think that's where real change comes is when we start living into it. And again, it's that second thought, Not the 1st 1 The first thought Still gonna come that damn thoughts coming. So, yeah, I don't know. But does that make

Lynn:   1:3:53
you think you see using that? Yes. Yeah, I need to. I need to use filled out that Maybe Well, it's an exercise I

Lynn:   1:3:58
take myself through more than once. You know, I've done it many, many times. And the deeper the, the deeper the why. Like when John says, Why do you think that? Well, there probably was a place where you found a reason to think that, like somebody programmed that in right one of your coaches, it could be one of your teachers. It could be an experience in a store, you know, something programmed it.

Natallia:   1:4:22
So you had a bad experience, and I think that's what's going on. Exactly. Why aren't  

Lynn:   1:4:25
you just

Lynn:   1:4:26
bought into somebody saying You're no good? You know that's no good and you'll say, You're no. Somebody might even say That's no good and a kid We'll take that personally. It means I'm no good. And so part of that work is to also stop taking things so personally right, because and all I mean by taking it personally is like, look at the difference between what I can do and who I am and what I have really worked on for myself. But it doesn't mean I do it all the time, but it's like I don't give anybody the permission toTell me who I am, but you could tell me how i am you can tell me if I'm you know, if I'm being rude, by all means, tell me, or if I'm not skiing well enough for if I need to work on, you know, whatever. I'm okay. That's a skill.

Natallia:   1:5:11
Yeah, exactly. It depends on you. Yeah, but not But you are

Lynn:   1:5:15
not who I am. Because I try to leave that to the divine, you know? And so that's the That's the way I've tried to work with that. Cool. Thank you. Yeah. So thank you for asking that question. It helps me clarify my thoughts. You know, the reason I'm here is you've seen my computer stuff over here. I'm here to Write my book and these kind of conversations Help me clarify how to talk about what I'm trying to write do because it's really the book is really about achieving sort of that kind of balance under pressure, no matter where the pressure comes from. And I think we all have a pressure threshold, and it's different, depending on the domain. It sounds like your pressure threshold on bowling is maybe a little lower than the one on water skis. And you're gonna be a great water skier. But you know,

Natallia:   1:6:00
right, Because I maybe don't even want to be super. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.  

Lynn:   1:6:04
And for me,

Lynn:   1:6:04
like, the pressure threshold of getting back on the horse was a big deal, because before my accident, I thought I knew what I was doing. But once I found out, I didn't know what I didn't know. I didn't want to get back on the horse because I realized I could get thrown again,

Natallia:   1:6:17
right? It's a long way down, right? So basically, you're saying that this pressure, it's a good thing it's the pressures are hearing for each step. Exactly. The part of the success is a huge just taken correctly and covered it exactly

Lynn:   1:6:30
because I would actually say everything you talked about doing journaling, meditation, learning. When you're under pressure and watching how you respond under pressure, listening to your body, giving your body what it needs to recover, all those things are part of our I call them our. Invisible tools. Our repertoire, too, respond under pressure instead of let pressure crush us. Yeah, that's that's what I'm gonna try to get across in this book.

Natallia:   1:6:57
It's the same, basically, with your thoughts. You, instead of letting your bad thoughts beat you up and get completly like drowned in it. Yes, you can reverse it. And

Lynn:   1:7:06
yes, like you can reverse, and you also can learn t advantage. I'll give you a live example of something that happened today with a thought that I actually didn't follow through on, and it kind of gave me a few minutes of angst. So as I was walking away from the car to come down to ski my car Key, I thought was in my pocket. But I had this thought. I need to find the car key and I looked down in my pocket. I said o it's in  there I didn't check. I thought I saw a lump. Get down there and start taking my ski gear  year apart Now. Now, by now it's cold. I'm in my bathing suit. I don't want to walk barefoot back to the car, but I can't find the car key now. That's an indication to me of it's a concept of sort of what you call the poles being out of balance, meaning that you can feel that little energetic charge that says something's off. And my inner guidance was saying that look for your key and I ignored it. Intuition, my intuition and see, I think this is the hard part about all of this is. Sometimes the intuition comes up and there's like, Okay, look for the key and I didn't and then now I was too far away. I could have come back, but I walked up to the car after we talked, and I was skiing and all that holding my breath. It's not my car. And I did. I was like, I'm gonna have to call Triple A. Have you

Lynn:   1:8:18
learned about, You know, how about

Lynn:   1:8:21
this is gonna be so embarrassing If I have to say I, like, somehow dropped the key in the

Lynn:   1:8:25
water. You know how much it's a friend's car. It's not just the random or yeah,

Lynn:   1:8:30
all that stuff. All that noise was going on in my hands. And now those are not productive thoughts, but the productive thought Was look for your key. Well, I breathed a sigh of relief when I came up and I saw it was had fallen evidently out of my hand, out of my pocket, right behind the car. And so I brushed it off. I thought about kissing it,

Lynn:   1:8:50
kissing It s

Lynn:   1:8:52
so happy to see it. But then I reflected in the way we were talking about of saying, you know, when you really have to listen and learn to discern when you're being given a signal,

Lynn:   1:9:04
that's versus the noise.

Natallia:   1:9:06
That's also interesting to separate those two.  

Lynn:   1:9:08
Yes, because that was

Lynn:   1:9:10
a signal and all the other stuff about the key was noise and all that triple AAA and telling my friend and all that stuff was noise. So I'm trying to learn to listen to that too, because I think we have moments when we're under pressure. That's not much pressure, but it's pressure. I mean, tell him a friend I lost his car key. Yeah, exactly. And that I can't get back to him, you know, two hours away to fly home.  that would have been a problem. So, yeah, being able to listen to that stuff and then let it tell you what to do. Like you're letting your body tell you what to do. Like, let the situation guide your actions. And in that case, you know, I often say we're back to balance for either over or under reacting, and I under reacted

Natallia:   1:9:55
right That I should have checked

Lynn:   1:9:57
right then and then coming back when my noise started in my head, I was overreacting.

Lynn:   1:10:03
Not in a way

Lynn:   1:10:03
that you all could see. I just looked like I was walking back, but inside my head, you know? Yeah, not so much,

Natallia:   1:10:09
but so that's gonna be your experience. So next time, next time and that's gonna happen. You're gonna check for that key.

Lynn:   1:10:14
This is the idea. And the next time I feel that signal come up, I'm going to say All right, what do I need to look for? What do I need to do right now? And I think if I ask that question, it's gonna be not unlike when I like today one of my skin. And then when I was skiing, I bobbled one time in a long time ago, I learned the first thing to do in your Bobble is just get yourself back in good ski position and then decide if you're gonna keep pulling. Don't pull from a bad position because that's how crashes happen. And so it's that kind of situation. What do I have to do to get myself back in Good position? How do I get myself balanced? So the signal goes down and I have solved it, so yeah, man, I could talk to you. Interesting.

Natallia:   1:10:51
I know. I know. This is cool. That's  

Lynn:   1:10:54
so tell May

Lynn:   1:10:55
tell everybody how to find you because I know you're out there in the social media world, we can follow you tell us all your different platforms and how to find you

Natallia:   1:11:04
on. So, like a CE faras coaching goes and coaching here, Jack Travers, you can come jack Travers dot com and finde Find me there as a coach, your instructor. And by

Lynn:   1:11:14
the way, this is one of the beauties I think we have to highlight you. People can come and train with the best in the world

Lynn:   1:11:24
you're being. You're being humble like I'm the best in the world. I'm gonna get. I get to

Lynn:   1:11:28
tell you you're the best of the world.

Lynn:   1:11:30
That's an

Lynn:   1:11:30
amazing thing. They can come here and try, and with you they can rent a house. Stay here on the like they take their game up to

Natallia:   1:11:36
Yes, it's all it's all on the website. There's different packaging, different living arrangements from houses to the dorm. Or you can just walk and have a have a lesson and go enjoy and Parks and come back next day. And it's all all ages and all ages, all ages. Old levels doesn't matter, like you get so many. That's different topic. But you get so many questions that a lot of people intimidated to come to this place because they have an idea that it's only professional skiers and stuff. So I'm gonna look so awkward. For example, in the dark right now is Daniel. It'll chanko who, like one under 21 worlds. And yeah, to me, I never even played it. Never even thought of this. I'm like, no water skiing this for everyone. That is a beautyof it.

Lynn:   1:12:16
Yeah, that took me

Lynn:   1:12:17
a while to get used to that. See, it did. Because remember, I thought, you know, when I saw you, I was like,

Lynn:   1:12:21
Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay. And then we realize

Lynn:   1:12:24
we're all just people. Yeah, you know, And I That's what I love here. And if you come here, chances are Danny's from Ukraine, right?  you'll you'll see people from all over the world more than I'd say more times than not when I'm here. I'm the only American.

Natallia:   1:12:40
Yes, it's It's We have a lot of international people out of Europe for South America, and they're anywhere.

Lynn:   1:12:45
It's wonderful to get to see all these years, Okay? So people can come train with you, and then if they want to follow you, if they want to see what you're putting out on social media, where your platform.

Natallia:   1:12:54
My My Facebook is just my name. Natalia. Berdnikava. Okay, I don't have specials after it. And so it's just personal. Um, I haven't Instagram account 90 Ski 200 But you can find the 300 now. Just keep it. Won't put this in the show notes too. Okay. And you can find it by my name too. I'm pretty sure you put Natalie Bernick are spelled correctly, then it will pop up. And I have personal website, which is not a ski that calm. Nice. Okay? Yeah. And I guess a couple of sponsor pages. Yeah, a model. So tomorrow has come out of sponsor that ad?

Lynn:   1:13:28
Yeah. I was wearing one of their wetsuits today.

Lynn:   1:13:29
Yes, that's like that state's

Lynn:   1:13:30
ever? Yes. I mean, just awesome. I haven't I haven't used to dry suit since I got one. Yeah, no reason. Right? Exactly. So and who else sponsors you,  

Natallia:   1:13:40
Nautique Nautique?  

Lynn:   1:13:42
Um I might I might be prone. Like a Nautica lot. Thio fact. 2nd 2nd past a dame like Chris, this boat feels really good. It's a brand new, not t. That's good. Amazing boat. Well, I mean, it's just it's just a barn and I love it. It's a great boat. That's what we run at Mystic Waters. So, yeah, we're very fortunate. We have water sports central, and we're very, very fortunate to have those boats And, well, you know, we've got Austin abel training there, so we didn't even get into talking about driving at that high level. We won't do that just like that for another day. But boy, heaven hasn't been interesting for me to learn how to coach and Drive a Pro. As I'm sure you know, because you have you have you have John so any parting words? What I like to actually often ask at the end is Do you have any requests for our audience In terms of just how to grow themselves? Like if people are listening to this, they're interested in being more balanced. The interesting growth they're interested in learning how to be stronger under pressure or better under pressure. And I have found oftentimes, if you make a request, people will rise up to that request s. So what is it that you would ask of them to consider for their own growth?

Natallia:   1:14:53
Well, like I mentioned before, I think number One thing is, if you do something, do it 100%. Second is do it for yourself, not for anyone else. Become completely  independent person. They just do it for yourself. And what hurting? Don't look what people think around you. A judgment that's also Yeah, that's also huge.

Natallia:   1:15:15
And there was one more thing I wanted to say, but I just thought completely get out of my head. Maybe, maybe,

Natallia:   1:15:22
but those I guess those are their major ones,

Natallia:   1:15:26
huh? We don't think about it. It was a good one. I thought  

Lynn:   1:15:31
pressure has a way of making our thoughts. Leave our heads too.

Natallia:   1:15:34
Yeah, it just completely, like get out.

Natallia:   1:15:36
Yeah. Said those things. 100% being independent. Yeah. Don't do things for yourself. Don't feel judged. Don't feel, Judged, because people are gonna judge you, But you don't have to feel judged.

Natallia:   1:15:47
I know. And that is also like one of the things I've worked a lot. Oh, my gosh. Brain used to pay so much attention off. What? What are they going to say? They're they're gonna think. And it's hard to to to learn to understand that it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter. Just don't Don't think what they think and what they say it does not matter is just you in your life. Like they will say something and they forget about and go about their lives. But you will be influence by what they say and their thoughts like how crazy, crazy.  

Lynn:   1:16:16
Well, there's two things that

Lynn:   1:16:17
are crazy. First of all, why are you thinking that they get to tell you anything, right? Like, why give them that power to say anything about who you

Lynn:   1:16:25
are, right there. Just a human being as you are, right? Exactly. And the second

Lynn:   1:16:28
thing is, what I have found is a lot of times when people judge you for us what they judge themselves for so you can actually turn it around and go, Whoa! That's what they think of themselves.  

Natallia:   1:16:37
It's a Mirror  

Lynn:   1:16:38
It is a mirror. It's been about all psychological idea of projection, right? Do that.

Natallia:   1:16:43
Oh, and then what? One more thing I wanted that to request from you guys is if you have a thought that you want to achieve something or do something like improve your like like for example, if you want to work on your pressure and you wanna go ask for help oh Lynn, can you help me do that? Do that. Don't wait. Don't wait. So that And don't look again at other people. Oh, but that person didn't do it. Oh, but that person do that. Do what Best for you. What Your thoughts. But your inner self. What your intuition tells you if you need to do it. If you need that type of help for that type of action to make you feel that much better, please do it. There is no shame and getting help really how it and do it. Like right now. Don't wait. Don't wait. Don't wait. I don't like  

Lynn:   1:17:26
I think

Lynn:   1:17:26
that's brilliant because I've seen people not want to ask for help because they think somebody that's better than them isn't getting help. So surely I should be able to do it.

Natallia:   1:17:33
Exactly. What? Your people doesn't have problems. So then I must be There must be some crazy Exactly. It must be something wrong with me. You know, the old different it's it's  

Lynn:   1:17:43
and I

Lynn:   1:17:44
can't even begin. And this is true across the board. But let's go back to water skiing I can't even begin to tell you how many times we've had people show up to our ski school that were good, open lake skiers but doing some dangerous things, especially with the buoys where they could get hurt. It's like get some help before you hurt yourself, and then they become great skiers if they'll do it. And I actually have a blog I wrote years ago. I think it was called Learning to Learn. And it was basically on the principle that leadership means asking for help, because here's what's really interesting. Think about what a leader is doing. You have to have help if you're gonna be a leader or else you'd be doing everything

Lynn:   1:18:17
yourself. Yeah, so if you want to run a

Lynn:   1:18:20
company of 2000 or 20,000 or 200 hundred thousand

Lynn:   1:18:23
things working for you, excuse me, but are helping you? Yes, so there's no shame

Lynn:   1:18:27
in asking for help. And in fact, I think it's one of the highest levels of respect you could give to other people.

Natallia:   1:18:33
Yeah, and the same risky lessons. You know, like so many people skiing on their own, spending so much time. Money, energy other people's time like to trying to skin their self. It's like given instruction. Get coach like you were there for a reason. It's normal. You don't get there by yourself. So trying to have help of others, it's normal. It's just how it's

Lynn:   1:18:54
normal and it's actually true. Everywhere like this is true in the corporate world where I work at the people who have gotten coaching, that actually will go into a learning mode instead of trying to show I have had people try to show me how good they are instead of letting me help them. They don't stay with me very long, but the people who stay with me a long time, they get these amazing jobs. They get raises, they do all these things because they discover how getting help. I'm not perfect and I actually do need help. This is pretty hard what we're doing. Skiing's hardworking, hard leading is hard, right? Let's get some help, we help each other, and by the way, I get coaching and I know you do. Yeah, like you

Lynn:   1:19:31
are all helping. You

Natallia:   1:19:32
might need some advice from you later coming back to that thoughts processes. Oh,  

Lynn:   1:19:37
well, it's interesting because, like the best coaches get Coaches 

Natallia:   1:19:41
Of course. How did they become coaches by being coached by? Gets help you come there. You don't get there yourself.

Lynn:   1:19:47
No, no. And we really are born to help each other.

Natallia:   1:19:50
Exactly. So just please understand that it's normal. And if there is a need to do that, don't wait and do it right now.

Lynn:   1:19:57
That's so awesome. That's a great way to end. I can't thank you enough for coming. Thank you.

Natallia:   1:20:02
Was fun. I was thinking about it. I do to. You all right? Well, now

Lynn:   1:20:05
it's time. I guess we got to go ski now.

Lynn:   1:20:07
Sweet. Thanks. Thank you

Lynn:   1:20:09
for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now, what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less off. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course, subscribe and write it on the different APS that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now I hope you go and do something very fun today.