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Nov. 17, 2023

#66 Kathy Price: A Scientist Changes Her Mindset

#66 Kathy Price: A Scientist Changes Her Mindset

My guest for this episode is Kathy Price. Kathy is from the United Kingdom, which you will be able to tell from her accent when you hear this conversation. She and I met last year during the Journey on Podcast Summit in San Antonio, TX.
This year, we're just coming off the second Podcast Summit in San Antonio.  As we did last year, Kathy and I connected immediately. In fact, I was so excited to get to have her on this podcast because there was so much I wanted to learn from her.
Last year, I sat with her last year in a session she did on at a breakfast meeting about the work she does, which is called Point of Balance. I was interested to learn how  someone with such a scientific background - she has a degree in Zoology – is now talking about things like energy, quantum physics, and how those fields apply to healing horses and healing humans.
This podcast gives many of those answers. Kathy is also clear that her work is that of a facilitator, and in that, she carries a strong message of empowerment. Kathy said several times that we have everything we need to be who we’re meant to be and to achieve what we’re meant to achieve, and to bring ourselves back into balance.
Here's what Kathy shared about herself:
From a very young age horses have been THE passion in Kathy’s life. Even though Kathy grew up in the suburbs of London with totally a non-horsey family, somehow the love of the horse was always the most powerful thing in her life.
Kathy comes from a scientific background gaining a BSc (Hons) degree in Zoology. Her mindset was always based on the scientific paradigm of you had to be able to “measure it, replicate it and explain it” for it to be true. If those criteria were in place, she was happy. If they weren’t, she didn’t want to know.
That was until in 2003 when with her horse Midnight she went to a horsemanship clinic with clinician Len Judd. For her this clinic was the moment of transformation, a spiritual experience that changed her life.
From that weekend forward, as she stepped into and embraced the world of energy and connection, her need for scientific explanation fell away and her mind set became, “My Experience is my Truth.”
Now after many years of studying energy, quantum physics, healing, spirituality and training in several energetic modalities, Kathy is well-established in her own, unique work which she calls Point of Balance.
Through this purely energetic work her aim is to facilitate the person or animal she is working to move back into balance at all levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. This move back to balance not only helps them to heal themselves, but also helps them realize their unique power and potential.
Kathy knows categorically that is the horse that has not only led her to the wonderful people around her today, but also continues to lead her into deeper and deeper insights of the fundamental aspects of this World and indeed The Universe, namely that everything is energy and everything is connected.
Kathy’s work includes carrying out sessions in person and at distance with both people and animals, and she feels blessed and grateful to have clients both people and animals, all over the world.

Show Notes

  • Balancing work and life with a focus on energy and healing. (0:02)
  • The power of energy and vibration. (4:04)
  • Energy, synchronicities, and connecting with horses. (10:02)
  • Psychic phenomena and scientific skepticism. (15:39)
  • The power of belief in shaping our reality. (21:04)
  • Cancer prevention and energy consumption. (26:24)
  • Modern life's impact on resilience and immune system development. (31:55)
  • Resilience, healing, and personal growth. (36:09)
  • Manifesting through intention and gratitude. (41:45)
  • Manifesting desires through intention and gratitude. (46:21)
  • The power of intention and connection with horses. (50:18)
  • Using energy healing to help a depressed 12-year-old boy. (54:41)
  • Balancing energy and finding inner peace. (59:57)
  • Balancing and staying in the moment while water skiing. (1:04:00)
  • Staying present and finding balance in various activities. (1:08:27)
  • Empowering individuals to find their own solutions. (1:13:18)
  • Creativity, innovation, and harnessing the power of the field. (1:17:29)
  • The power of intention and self-reflection. (1:23:37)
  • Leadership, energy centers, and pre-cognition. (1:28:21)
  • Personal growth and self-awareness. (1:32:59)
  • Healing, connection, and self-awareness. (1:40:19)
  • Rewiring brains and changing habits through mindfulness. (1:45:41)

Guest Contact

Email: kath.p@btinternet.com



Intro  00:02

Welcome to Creative spirits unleashed, where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now, here's your host, Lynn Carnes.


Lynn  00:19

Welcome to the creative spirits unleashed Podcast. I'm Lynn current, your host. My guest for this episode is Kathy price. Kathy hails from the United Kingdom, which you will be able to tell when you hear this conversation. But she and I met last year during the journey on podcast summit in San Antonio. This year, we're just coming off the third iteration of that particular event my second time to attend. And as we did last year, we connected immediately this year. In fact, I was so excited to get to ask her to be on this podcast because she and I have so much in similar but more than that there was so much I wanted to learn from her. I sat with her last year and a session she did on at a breakfast meeting about the work she does, which is called point of balance, trying to understand how someone with such a scientific background, she has a degree in geology, could now be talking so much about things like quantum physics and how that actually applies to healing horses and healing humans. This podcast gives many of those answers. As she says several times during our conversation, how much time do you have, because she has a depth and wealth of knowledge about how to help people out for themselves. And if there's any message I would want people to come from this podcast it is that you have everything you need to be who you're meant to be and to achieve what you're meant to achieve. And to bring yourself back into balance. That was her message. And that was the message of this podcast. But let me give you a little of her background. She says from a very young age horses have been a verb passion in her life. Even though she grew up in the suburbs of London with a totally non horsey family. Somehow the love of the horse was always the most powerful thing in her life. Kathy comes from a scientific background, gaining a degree in zoology. Her mindset was always based on the scientific paradigm of you had to be able to measure it, replicate it and explain it for it to be true. If those criteria were in place, she was happy if they weren't, she didn't want to know. That was until 2002 1003 when she took her horse to a horsemanship clinic with clinician Lynne Jett, for her this clinic was the moment of transformation it was a spiritual experience that changed her life. From that weekend forward as she stepped into and embrace the world of energy and connection. Her need for scientific explanation fell away and her mindset became my experience is my truth. Now, after many years of studying energy, quantum physics, healing spirituality and training in several energetic modalities, Cathy is well established in her own unique work which she calls point of balance. Through this pure light, energetic work. Her aim is to facilitate the person or animal she is working to move back into balance at all levels. Physical, mental, emotional and spiritual. This move back to balance not only helps them heal themselves, but also helps them realize their unique power and potential. What did I tell you in the introduction, that's what Kathy is all about. So she actually carries her workout in sessions in person at a distance but both people and animals and says she feels blessed and grateful to have clients, both people and animals all over the world. Please enjoy this podcast with Kathy price. Kathy price, welcome to the podcast.


Kathy  04:04

Thank you so much, Lynn. I am extremely excited and very grateful to be here.


Lynn  04:09

That's how I feel about having you here as well. After we just both left the journey on podcast Summit, where we met last year and the more I've gotten to know you the more I know why I landed in your breakfast session


Kathy  04:30

it's it's so amazing. Is that how these connections get made? And you feel that vibration that resonance with somebody and immediately think oh, I've known them before or Yeah, that's the person I want to meet. Yeah. The feeling is totally mutual.


Lynn  04:49

Well, thank you. It's it is interesting, that idea of vibration and how it creates an attraction and And as I'm saying those words out loud as a former accountant, and very tangible person, and someone who always had to, like, only believe what I could touch. Yeah, I can't believe I'm actually saying those words. But I think you're in the same boat like you were also in sort of the I'm going to call it the more tangible scientific community. So and yet now you're talking in language around energy and things that are in the unseen world. Yeah, Kathy, could, could you talk a little bit just to start about that, how you came to understand the power of the, I'm going to call it the unseen for the moment, the power of the unseen? That's,


Kathy  05:46

that's a beautiful way of putting it. Yeah, cuz I'm like you and I was really hardcore scientist in that, if you could explain it, if you could measure it. And if you could replicate it, I'd go for it. You know, I believe it, anything else, just speak to the hand because it was not tangible. And for me, it wasn't. It didn't exist because of those things weren't in place. And that's how I grew up. And I went through, I was aiming to be a vet and didn't get good enough grades, which now was the biggest blessing out. But for me, then it was quite a disappointment. And I did as the ology degree instead, which I absolutely adored. But the best part was that it brought me to this area of the world that I live in, and I never went home, but immediately moved down to me. But yeah, I was really hardcore scientist, and I wanted to know how things worked. And I liked things that were either right or wrong, that there was no, there was no gray area. And I mean, I even to the extent that English literature used to drive me mad, because when you did an exam, they told you what you had to think, you know, when you read a book, then oh, Romeo's saying this, and I'm thinking, Oh, what if he's not saying that? And so the rebellious part of me was, I want to know, black or white. Anyway, so that was the way I operated. And then I had a horse my first horse, there was a Cleveland Bay cross thoroughbred, and Cleveland Bay is a big carriage horse that comes from the northeast of England here. And they have in their breed standard, the word intractable ie stubborn, and she went very much to the Cleveland Bayside, I very rarely saw the thoroughbred, so she just go, No, and you can see it just sitting there going and what you're gonna do about it. And so I feel her job with me her. What she brought to me was, I had to find another way. And so I started experimenting, I did Perrelli, and I've tried Western. And then, long story short, a friend invited me down to a clinic in Pembrokeshire, in west Wales, where there was no phone signal, which was a big thing because we're on a farm and I could get away from phone calls asking our got sick cow, how much should it have this? You know, what injection does it need? I was completely in the zone with the horse. And basically, that weekend, with a clinician called lejog. It changed me 100%. I went in the scientist on the Friday, and I came out I do not know what on the Monday, but all the science had fallen away. And I think I'd basically been introduced to the concept of energy and vibration. And I didn't know what to do with it. I didn't know who I was. I was in complete confusion in one way. But from that moment, became my search to find answers. And to dig into it and find what is it because the scientific rationale kicked in, then? Well, let's go digging. Let's find answers. And so I think it was 12 years. So that was 2003. And for the next 10 to 12 years at least. I read books on everything from quantum physics, spirituality, healing, any and all of the above, trying to find answers. And I also delved into different energetic modalities such as Reiki, quantum touch Reconnective Healing, again, what suits me Does this answer my question? And the more that I went into it, the more I realized that the energy was the reality and the science was just trying to explain something. So that's how the shift happened and it literally happened over one weekend.


Lynn  09:31

Okay, so you have to tell me what happened in in that time like what happened what did the horse do what did Len show you? What, what what the heck


Kathy  09:42

happened? I do I still question myself as to what actually happened but my memory of it is right from the very start. I walked into the there was a beautiful smallholding, and Len Nina, his wife who was there his Then his wife was staying in that cottage And I walked into the door and Nina came to the door. She went, Oh my God, I know you. I've met you before. And I'm looking at her and she's like six foot tall, this amazing, striking woman. I'm thinking, No, I think I would have met you. But you are just remembered if I'd met you before. So that was the start of the weirdness. It was like, Oh, God, no, I've never seen them. And then when he worked with the horses, we went to a demonstration on the Friday evening. And it was all about energy. I was expecting something a bit like Pirelli or natural horsemanship, you know, you shake the rope, or you point them in this direction. And they do that and they move nothing. It was all about what the horse is feeling the energy of vibration where it was looking, and it was totally out of my comfort zone, and something I've never experienced. And then the whole weekend was the same. He would work with the horses in the round pen. And he talked about their energy of what they were feeling and what they were doing. I was in tears, Lin most of that weekend of not upset of just wonder, just, oh my god, I'm finding the answers. And I just couldn't help myself. I was crossed question left, right and center. And he just laughed. Because he just knew that I was on that shift into that different world. So the whole weekend was that, and I just came away with this completely different concept of how to connect with horses, and what horses are about, that they've got so much to teach us. And I knew nothing. I realized I was a complete, you know, I'm the the kindergarten in that world. So that was what it was about. But it was the most amazing feeling. It was such a opening feeling such a wonderful feeling. And so when I came out of there, I as I said, I went immediately searching. And I happened to go into literally two days later into our local bookshop and picked a book up on Reiki. I had no idea what Reiki was, this is where the synchronicities start happening. And it fell open. Hahaha, on I think it's page 54. And it described what some people experience when they have a Reiki attunement. And basically, it's what I'd experienced at that clinic, you know, this sense of wonderment and openness of, of knowing, or I don't know how to describe it. And complete self interest. I thought, Oh, I'm gonna do Reiki now just to see if I can get a bit more of that. You know, so it wasn't, there was no higher motive, I promise you. And then weird things. Leonard said to me, in the actual clinic, he said, Now the dreams will start. And I didn't know what he meant. And so I came home on the Monday on on the Wednesday evening, I had such a vivid dream, which was with Nina picking lavender. Then I was with them. They were looking for their children. And we found them and we were sitting in a restaurant. And there were three boys and a girl. And the field was like Far Eastern Japanese or something like that. There was just this field. And Nina was still in Wales where we were. So I rang her and I did I thought I'm not leading her at all. And I just said, What does lavender mean to you? And she said, Oh, it's my favorite scents, scent. And I've just been out buying some. So my hackles started going up a little bit. And during the clinic, they they'd said that they've got two boys. And they didn't have a daughter. And I said, okay, and then I had this dream of you. And then and they were four children, three boys and a girl. And she said, Oh, yeah, I've been married before. And I had a boy and a girl by my previous marriage. So now I'm really getting like, Oh, God, what's going on? And I thought, well, let's go the whole hog and, and, and Nina is this beautiful, tall, statuesque with dark hair, slightly tan, you know, and she grew up in California, as far as I'm aware. And so I was thinking maybe she had Spanish or Mexican blood, you know, heritage. And I said to her about, you know, I've got this far eastern Japanese. She said, I'm Indonesian. So when that happened, it was like, Okay, I've just don't know what's going on. But that was the sort of thing that started to happen. So it was like, I was opening up into a different layer. I dropped my guard down, I think looking back, and I became more connected to what actually is.


Lynn  14:31

And, you know, that's, like, that's the point, isn't it? Not to say that scientists have it wrong. Yeah. Because as I'm sitting here thinking about the your discussion about energy, I'm also thinking we were able to talk to people in outer space. Yes, without a wire. Yes. Yeah. What was that? Is that Is that not energy? Is our our cell phones not? Like I'm being like if I have the right machine, I am currently being totally bombarded by different radio waves by different cell phone signals. If I hit the right button, I can receive a packet of information out of the ether. Yeah, to land in my phone. Isn't that science? So? Yeah, it's just that horses and humans are our own machine to connect energy together, if you will. And I'm using machine in quotes. So it's like, of course, it's science. Like


Kathy  15:37

it totally. And I think I know that I'll say now I know where it was mentioned this before. There's a book called real magic by Dean Raiden. And in that he, you know, he's studied all the psychic phenomena. And they've worked with the government in the USA government, where they've done the distance viewing distance, I can't remember it's called Remote viewing. And it's all been used. And she was the Chairman, this lady whose name I can't remember was the Chairman. And I hate this word, because I never can set correctly of the statisticians. And so she had a conference with hundreds of statisticians there. And she had the data from a study she'd done to show that the results of all of the psychic stuff that they'd been examining, showed beyond doubt, it wasn't chance. You know, it's something like a million to one that it was actually happening, there was something going on. And she said to this assembled group, if I told you that the chance was a million to one, that it was against chance, you know, that this was real, this psychic phenomena was real, would you believe me? They all said no. Even though that was their medium, that was their, their way of proving because they hadn't experienced it themselves. And when it was outside their experience, it was it was too much to actually envisage. And because science had not got a cogent explanation at that moment, it couldn't be believed. And I just find that fascinating.


Lynn  17:10

Do you think people are are resistant in that way, when resistant when the data even is showing them? Like, I can think for myself? Well, okay, so when I was when I was just starting to come into the awareness of this unseen world, there were, there were a couple of places where I had great fear. One was being rejected by my family. And the other was thinking that I was playing with something that could make me go to hell. Yeah. Okay. And as I've lifted up and looked at that, it's dawned on me that that's kind of not unusual for one thing, but also possibly, maybe a message that was intentionally set, because it disempowers us


Kathy  18:04

who Yeah, I mean, that's quite deep. And I really hear you everything you said, I agree, you know, rejection, you know, and then if we have a spiritual belief, and it's against that, then it's fear about we mustn't go there. But it's always you know, we're conditioned. And I think what you're saying there, you know, we're conditioned that if we can't explain it in science, it does not exist. But even if we've had a glimmering of it, and the fear then is that we will be rejected by the group,


Lynn  18:34

and especially the scientific community, if you identify with that.


Kathy  18:38

Yeah, yeah. But yes, absolutely. That it's an unknown. And then we, I think we, we, especially in the Western world, grow up in this environment. And I know I have I was born in 1960s. So everything was starting, you know, the medicine, everything was about science and science and science. And there was nothing there was none of the ancient traditions if you like, but if you know, from the eastern side of the world, and I think it when it's something so alien, that you've never experienced it, nobody has ever talked about it. And then someone introduces the concept of, you know, telepathy or something like that. Even though I believe so many people there is a core in them that goes Oh, yeah, they they do want to believe it, or they do there is a resonance with it, that they go Yeah, that does exist, but then it's shut down. Because, as you said, the fear is there, of rejection, of not being accepted, especially as you said, again, in the scientific realm, that if you're in the scientific world, and then it's so interesting, there's a guy and I cannot remember his name, he wrote a book about trying to study out of body experience when if people in inverted commas die on the operating theatre and they can quite often be remember what's being said they've even though technically, you know, the heart stopped. He wanted to do a study about that. And he went to a number of high, you know, high medics within the industry, if he spoke to them, non professionally, not off the record. How many of them said something happens? Something, but none of them would go on the record to say that. And I think that's a classic example. Well, it's part of that


Lynn  20:30

inability to prove something. And we get so locked down by that proving mindset that says, If I can't prove it, then it doesn't exist. And yet, there's lots and lots of people who know it does exist.


Kathy  20:48

Yeah. And dependent. I mean, that's where now my from going from, you know, measure it, replicate it. And I believe it. My saying now is my experience is my truth. But I don't expect it to be other people. I don't force it on other people.


Lynn  21:04

Well, there you go. That's the other thing is we we also proselytize. And you know what you say about, like, if that silent, Saudia, I remember Brene Brown said that in her podcast that not her podcast, her TED Talk, June of 2010, she was talking about that. And of course, she's she's recognized as she called herself in that talk a researcher storyteller. There's so much more than just the data. Yeah. And that's what I think is has made her message so compelling is how many people were so interested in how she created the the openness for vulnerability and living in a wholehearted life. Yeah, absolutely. And


Kathy  21:49

because of what she said, and the way she's kept going, and she again, she had a certain amount of credibility, because the study, she was doing what we've done through the university, you know, through excepted channels, and that's what I believe is the way that the, the we get unconditioned to it if you like, because more and more scientists are stepping in are finding ways of exploring in ways that are acceptable inverted commas to the hardcore scientist. And so, if you like more of the phenomena that were not was not were not accepted before become accepted, because science is quietly opening up with it's more knowledge. And I'm a, you know, for modern medicine, for instance, I am 100% supporter of it, because I believe we learn everything for a reason, but it's what we do in matters. And we all know, there might be parts of modern medicine that's going a little bit of skew. But for the vast majority, if it wasn't for modern medicine, there'd be millions, if not billions of people that are suffering, there's no


Lynn  22:58

doubt. There's no doubt. And, and there's I mean, if you look at I think back to and you probably know the name of the scientists that figured out germs, which couldn't be seen at that time. Yeah, kill how many people were killed, because they didn't understand these little tiny things that could kill people, as they moved from patient to patient. And that particular scientist, I believe, who started that theory was completely rejected by his community. And, you know, I think there's another piece that happens there. Which is, if I have somebody tell me that I've made this huge mistake that leaving blood on my hands from patient after patient after patient, yeah, is causing their death. I don't want to own that. I don't want to be told I was made that I made that level of mistake. And so in the paradigm of right and wrong. Yes, I am going to make sure you don't make me wrong, which makes me resist the truth.


Kathy  24:02

Yes, yeah. That's a really, really interesting concept. And it's true, isn't it? Especially, you know, if you did it unknowingly, because no one had told you, that would be one thing. And I know, this is part of the human psyche, we always have to work with. But when we get new knowledge, we look back and go, Oh, God, why did I do that? But we didn't have the knowledge then. But as you said, to be sort of put into the place that if you don't do this, and you cause that you have caused that? Yeah, there's nobody you are the agent of course, of course, Asia. Yeah, that's very powerful.


Lynn  24:37

And that's I think that's what makes Lee any kind of change so difficult. Because people don't want to live like they don't want to have been wrong.


Kathy  24:46

Yes, yeah. You see in the horse world as well. But, but just going back to, you know, people who won't believe Bruce Lipton, biology, but his stuff is bringing through epigenome. attics, he was completely, he was called a heretic. Because he said that the cell membrane was the important part, not the nucleus. And everyone said the nucleus was the controlling part. And it was as far as reproduction. But you can nucleate the cell, take the nucleus out, and it will survive, it can't replicate. But it will survive to a certain extent for a length of time. But you take away that cell membrane, you've got no cell intelligence of what it goes in and out and what you're which then determines what its genes are turned in and turned on and off dependent on the substrate. That is the power, but he was literally vilified. And now it's taught in schools.


Lynn  25:39

And, you know, it just dawned on me that that's a miniature of our own filters. What we let in and what we missed out. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Is that like a self created bubble of reality? Absolutely.


Kathy  25:55

And I think that's where the title of his book Biology of Belief, that's just says it, doesn't it, because it is we are conditioned, and how, you know, if we live in a fearful world, where we've been taught, everything is dangerous, then we're in that state of fear, which then puts the biochemistry into fear, which then turns the genes of fear on, you know, the genetic expression is a fear, which then leads to ill health. It's almost a dis ease. Exactly, exactly. And that's where I will mention this, then I'm not going to make a big point about it, because I know it can be contentious, I really, really, really, really, really struggle on the way that cancer is looked at. In the sense we've gone from one in four people having cancer to one in two, this is the statistic is now and we've got to be in the UK, Stand Up to Cancer, it was on TV and raising money. But it's all for the cure of cancer. And none of it is put on the other side for prevention of cancer.


Lynn  26:59

Oh, my gosh, I can't say enough about that.


Kathy  27:03

But it's, you know, what do they say the definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. If we've gone from one in four, in the last, I would have said 10 years to one in turn, something is not working. And however much however much money you pour into curing cancer. Why is it not being poured into the other side? And and you know, because it's the economics, and I'm not gonna say that there aren't people that have absolutely been cured of cancer. I'm not going there. But I just think a far more emphasis should be put on what is happening on the other side? Why is cancer so prevalent now? And what can we do about that, rather than going oh, well, we're expecting one or two, now we've got to find a cure for it. And the cure quite often is let's poison the whole system and hope the system survives, and the cells are killed off, I'm not going to be in any way say, I know, you know anything about cancer and how to treat it. I'm fascinated by the science behind it. I've watched program after program, because I love the science and what they're trying to do to get the molecules the same shape to go in the receptor cells to block cancer and things like that. It's amazing. But all of that has been put, after the person hasn't had the disease. It's like saying, well, we'll let everyone get measles. And we'll try and cure immune measles. Yeah, whereas the vaccination program is about preventing, preventing it happening. So it's a real bitch to me where they, that everything's about the fight against cancer, and the cancer is our cells. So we are putting our energy against ourselves. This is my perspective. And I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. But I find it really strange the way in the wording that's used, because you are literally putting yourself against yourself.


Lynn  28:52

It is I am 100% with you that it seems like we, in a lot of ways, our economy depends on the fixing of problems, rather than the provincial branches. Yeah, I'm going to jump to a whole different side of the equation. I have the same question around energy generation. So we are like, doing all kinds of things to create sustainable energy, but nobody saying How about using less of it?


Kathy  29:22

Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Sorry,


Lynn  29:26

about not having as much electricity usage. How about thinking about, you know, but but because of the electrification of the world, it's like we are demanding more and more and I'm like the root cause is not whether we're using fossil fuels or wind fuels or, you know, killing birds with the wind or decimating land with the solar or whatever that might be it is our need for it.


Kathy  29:50

Yeah. So here you are. And


Lynn  29:53

by the way, that's coming from somebody who loves electricity. We would love to have a conversation with you. Absolutely, I made sure exactly


Kathy  30:02

i So he and I always note it when we have a program here called gogglebox, which is about people watching TV programs. And then they film the people watching them. And it's really hysterical. But anyway, at the beginning, they have a satellite shot of the United Kingdom. And it's in the dark, and you can see all of the cities because of the bright lights there. They're this bright light that shines up. And I do love it that where I live, there is a bright light, but then we're in darkness, because we're in the hills. But it's the fact of all of those lights of all, you know, being in America, and I mean, being in shops over here. So I'm not making sort of America, the bad man. Everybody's got air conditioning. Everyone has got it. And if you haven't got it, you know about it. Oh, yeah. And it's, I just don't know, over here, they keep pushing the electric cars. And I'm really struggling. Why? Because they seem to think, Oh, they're cleaner and everything else. But they're not looking at where the batteries come from. And when the you know, elements that the lithium and everything that are marked is mined, and how much energy it takes to mine the lithium to put in one battery, to then power the car, then they can't get rid of the batteries. And then everybody has to plug their car in somewhere to charge their battery. And I really appreciate what's been trying to be done. And I have not got the answer. Because I know people go well, if you know any better, you know, shut up and do it. I don't. But I also look at what's happening and think, Oh, God, I really, it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right. And I agree what you say that if we every country, but that here we go again, isn't it about the countries that will actually step into using less? Electricity isn't those that's our way of life. And I mean, I'm sure the UK is one of them. People


Lynn  31:54

now that's the thing, it seems to be now a way of life. And there's something you said about the air conditioning that I think is a thread underneath both sides of the conversation around what's happening around our medical and cancer, and also what's happening around energy and our inability to live without electricity. And it is that what something's happening that's making us not as strong. So I'll give you an interesting story. We bought an old girl scout camp several years ago, and the girl scouts that owned it had like five camps. So they they sold five small camps to create one large camp. Yeah, you can imagine Girl Scout camps, it's cabins with screens, there's no there's no air conditioning, there was no air conditioning, you know, for any of the girls on any of those camps. But when they built the new camp, they had a couple of air conditioned buildings because they said that the studies had found that the girls suffered too much from lack of air conditioning. And that it would help them make it through the week. And I thought you know, I went to school in Texas. There was never air conditioning and a single school I went to until I went to college, really, and it was hot. Now the building was just full of windows that could open. And I always believed that, you know, one of the reasons we got out at the end of May and go back till September was because July August and September in Texas can be brutal. But yeah, but also, I feel like our bodies were more able to handle the adversity. Yeah. And and I'm not even gonna say adversity, but just to handle normal. natural conditions. Change. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, this is one of the values I think of the ice bath is it begins to bring your body back to understanding how to like turn on its own inner heater. Yeah. And frankly, turn on your you know, you're sweating. But it's that's your inner air conditioner. How do you create? So I'm just wondering what we what modern life is doing to us to make us less able to handle things that are natural. Alright.


Kathy  34:12

I love that. I love that. And wise, I don't think I've ever thought of it in those terms. I absolutely resonate with that. And basically what we're saying is, we're becoming less resilient, because we're living in a narrow confines of stimulus. And we know now that the body and the nervous system performs at its best when it's got diverse external stimuli. It's experiencing novel things all the time. So with just what you're saying, if we keep everything in an even temperature, and we never have to experience or allow our bodies to experience so it can use its internal mechanism. We're basically like the trees that were in the that experiment where they kept up thing within a dome, and they found the trees were falling over and breaking because then the wind, they were not getting the resilience from the wind hitting them. Yeah, that's exactly the same here, we need that wind hitting us from all elements, whether it's heat, whether it you know, it is the bugs as well, then you keep a child contains their immune system will not develop correct exposure. And my mom always used to call it clean dirt, in the sense that, you know, if you got muddy or you're out there, that's fine. Wash your hands, that's great. But don't cocoon them away from nature and away from the outside away from animals. And yes, be sensible. You know, I've been farming for 30 years. And I know that such things as zoonosis, which are diseases that can pass from animal to human, and you've got to be sensible. But I have to say my two kids have grown up, and my grandson growing up now. And then three of the healthiest children I've ever known that they have very few stomach bugs, very few colds, very blessed to be able to live the life that Did you know, the outside running around, and they're in contact with the animals and the ground. But I think it is an example of how the resilience is grown by exposure to adverse conditions.


Lynn  36:20

And there is a mindset, often in our country to prevent adverse conditions. Yeah, keep the calm, right. And especially, especially where trauma is involved. I think. I'm not saying trauma is not real, but I am saying that we actually can use it, as opposed to let it crush us. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I feel like it's hard for me not to get sucked into that, because I like somebody to take care of me. And I like I just said, I love electricity. And I love air conditioning. And, like, you know, I hope nobody's going to hold me to the fact that I said, I, you know, it's not making a strong and make me not live with air conditioning all winter. I mean, all summer, you know, I want my head higher. But at the same time, I am more and more the older I get, the more I'm recognizing that adversity are we were made for the struggle. And something I've heard you say before, I'd love to hear you talk about this, when you're working with people, helping them with their horses, and the kind of work you do, that you're really not doing it. You're just setting the conditions for them to do it for themselves. In other words, you're helping them help themselves. Yeah, because that's what we're made for. Could you talk a little bit about how that works and how you work with


Kathy  37:41

people, you got lens down.


Lynn  37:45

I think I might have hit something you'd like to target.


Kathy  37:48

This is my passion. And thank you, thank you for asking the question. So I'll go from my principles. My principles are that every person has the ability to heal, to connect, or to create and find purpose. And I believe my job here is to help people do that. And I truly believe that we have an innate ability to do this, that we don't need the help of anybody else. But there are people out there doing all sorts of modalities, everything has relevance, okay, everything. This is not about one thing being better than the other because everybody is different. But that's where I come from is that we have this innate power, we are magnificent, every single person. And when that magnificence doesn't show or people can't find it can be the conditions that have happened, the conditioning on the culture grown in, and I'm gonna go there, it could be our life's purpose that it's, that's the lesson we've come to learn in this lifetime. Because I truly believe this isn't the end of it. And that again, is my belief. No, I'm not pushing it on anybody else. So when I work, and this is such a great point to bring up thank you, Lynne is, I do not do anything. Because say if a person contacts me and they asked me to do a session on themselves or on their horse or dog or whatever, I never asked why. I don't need to know. Because I'm okay. Now if I do know, because I know I can switch my the old gray matter off. But to begin with, it was always I don't want to know because then I don't think about it. I don't think I got a bad leg or a bad back. Therefore, this needs to happen. I know. I did. Reiki I used to scan the system and find out where I felt I use the pendulum on my hands and I could feel heat and it was you know, quite accurate at times. But the more I went into it, the more I realized is that heat there for a reason. Should that it be there to do the healing and me coming in saying oh, I need to change it with my very limited knowledge. For me, it didn't fit well. So I stepped back and I stepped back and I stepped back so I see myself now as a facilitator. And I will never out of choice use the word healer, because the only healer for me is the system itself. So whether it's a horse, a dog, an amoeba, or a piece of grass a person, that's the system heals itself. And it's whether the conditions are right for it to find the information it needs to heal itself. And I believe truly believe the information for every system to come into balance is in the zero point field, which is the field that connects everything, it connects the innermost proton of us to the furthermost galaxy that we don't even know about. And all of the information that we need is in the field, whether that's to heal to find purpose to connect, we are connected, we cannot, because people talk about finding connection. And I totally understand why they say that. But they are connected. Because we are energy, we have vibration, there is stuff, you know, an atom is 99.999% space, nothing there. And the way I look at it is that when we put forward an intention, if when I was taught science, the you know how an atom looks, it was you had the nucleus in the middle, and then you have a circle with two electrons. And then you had another circle with eight electrons, and you had another circle with eight electrons. And that was the formation of the atom. They now know that we don't know where the electrons are at any particular second, because they're in the cloud around the atom. But if we go to look for them, and we put up attention on them, we fix the electron in space, because we've looked at it and we've gone out there is so Okay, so that's


Lynn  41:44

like Schrodinger. Schrodinger cat our attention. Yeah, yeah, Tara is the answer. Exactly.


Kathy  41:49

And I believe that's what happens when we put an intention out into the field is that every possibility permeable permutation is out there. And if we put a specific record, I'm gonna say requests, but you know, intention, you want to find a new job, you can either just say I want a new job, that's an intention, it's out there. Or you can say I want a job that I'm only going to work 30 hours a week, I want to earn this much money, I want to have time to run my horse and all this tick list. And you put that at intention out there. And then you give it attention, which for me, is feeling gratitude, as if it's already happened. So you know, if you apply for a job, and you get the email that goes, congratulations, we've got it, that feeling of Yes. Because gratitude usually occurs when something's already happened. So you put the intention out there, you give gratitude, which is attention, and then you just give it up. You don't think about it, I write a list every beginning of every year. And then I put it away. And I look at it at the end of the year to see what's happened. And it's amazing how much does happen. But for me, it's it's more powerful for me, because I feel if I stuck it on the fridge every day, I'd be looking going, I wonder how that could happen. Or I wonder if it's this or I wonder if that's just me? You know, I'm not gonna say it's right or wrong. But anyway, so for me when I'm working with people, so person current says, you know, will you give me a session, I don't know what's the matter with them. So my intention is for them to be able to find the information they need to heal themselves, to come back into balance at every level, physical, mental, and mental, emotional, and spiritual. And it's my gratitude going out for them to do it. And that is it. And I just leave it alone then because I can do no more. So when something amazing happens, and there's been a few recently, which have blown my brain completely, when something like that happens. I will accept My part is the facilitator but not as the healer. So for me, I don't know if I've waffled on now, but I don't know if that sort of answers the question about how I how I see my work. Well,


Lynn  44:08

I have I have several questions. The first one I have to ask because if and if it's okay to share is Do you could you share one of those most recent examples of what type of thing happens just so people can get their hands around? What is this look like? Because you mentioned for example, you mentioned the list I'll give when you when you mentioned having the list that you don't put on the fridge but you just make it and then set it aside. In 20, actually, 2001 I was leaving a salary job and starting my own business, but I didn't know for sure that I was really doing what I was really doing. I was at a leadership program called high impact leadership seminar. It was stopped at nothing that I used to work with years ago and I made a bunch of commitments on video. This is the kinda client, I want to work with this work I want to do, I was very specific, and I made these declarations from that sort of, I would say, loving grateful space. Yeah, it was on a VCR tape that they gave me at the end of the session. I set that aside. And then actually fairly quickly, we moved to DVD. So I didn't even have a VCR in my house, but one that we found in the closet, and somehow, Russ was like, doing something with videos, you know, to transfer it over or something. And I found that went and pulled it out. And this was about three years later. Right. And I had put in that some big stretch things. Yes, yeah, they had all happened, really every last one of them. And it was the second time this happened because I did a similar exercise on paper with the artists way where she said, take yourself out 10 years, and write the craziest things you can imagine, which I did. And they all happened within two years. Oh, my God, within two years. And again, not where I put them up like a vision board or something. This wasn't where I looked at it every day, and kept manifesting because I do believe what you said is worth repeating. If we do that, we're likely to look at all that can go wrong. It does that as well. And that's where our attention and energy goes. And it's caused me to quit saying to my husband, be careful when he leaves because in a way, what I'm communicating is, I don't trust you to be safe. I'm asking, I'm actually thinking, if I tell you to be careful, somehow I'm bending the will of the universe. But that's very cool. But if I actually want to bend the will of the universe, what I need to do is focus on what I want, not what I don't want. Yeah. And when I say be careful, in a way, I'm saying, I think you're gonna mess it up. So I'm offsetting you messing it up. In other words, is


Kathy  47:02

that so? Yeah, so would you say just looking on that one? If you said Be safe? You're putting a positive. I


Lynn  47:10

think I'd be more likely just to say, I love you. And I'll see you when you get home. Yeah, I've got right, yeah, because you're gonna be fine. And I've quit saying to people have safe travels, I say, now enjoy the journey. Yeah, because they're gonna have a journey. You know, guess what, some of my best moments in the airport. Oh, gosh, I hope I'm not manifesting more of these but have been when I've gotten to meet people while we're waiting on a light flight, you know, so enjoy the journey. And, and then everything is gonna just trust everything's gonna happen. Like, I've started thinking about laying it down is almost like a blue energy field of the path. I want to go. Yeah, not, not I read energy field of all the things I don't want to have happen. I love it. And that's a big shift for me, because I was a risk manager at a bank. And I was very good at seeing all the things that could happen. And I still believe that you actually have to manage risk. I do think you have to know what can happen. And be a parent, for example, you talk about balance, and I'm learning how to ride riding horses, which is almost all done at the canter. And I am before we started doing that we made sure I was super balanced in the saddle. Good, good. Not just go out there and start running and hope she can manage. Right. Yeah. So I think it's a balance there of having


Kathy  48:26

Yeah, that that and you know, with the balance, it's not a particular point. It's a really fluid. Something happened. I know, Jamie, Jamie piped up, she said it's balancing which is true. It's


Lynn  48:36

Yes. But that was my talk. The


Kathy  48:40

thing exactly, every second. Yeah, but But it's yeah. So going back to firstly, the what you described so beautifully, about how your job came forward is the last part the no tension. So you're not worrying about how it's going to happen. And you're not trying to decide how it's going to happen. You put everything down. And like you said, you put it on a VCR you couldn't even play. So it wasn't as though that was reminding you. But my feeling is that when we put that intention out there, that's all we need to do. It's not a big hard process where you got to keep doing things and repeating it and, and, you know, make it a big thing. I honestly believe and this is happening with my work even more now. Is that so simple? It's so light, it's so unforeseeable and that's how I think it flows more easily. Again, my experience, but yeah, so the no tension is intention. No, you want attention, give gratitude, no tension, do not try and decide how it's going to happen. Let the universe forward.


Lynn  49:43

Because that's what let's repeat that because people are going to be wanting to write this down intention, intention,


Kathy  49:49

know what you want, and you can do it as as generally or as input in as much detail as you want. Okay, attention, give gratitude as if it's already happened.


Lynn  50:02

So your attention goes to the gratitude. Yeah,


Kathy  50:05

yeah, your intention is about you visualize what you want. And then you feel the gratitude. As I said, as if the emails just come through the you've got it. And then no tension is the most important part. For me, in this world, one of the most important parts, you just let it go. Do not even think about, like you said, you put down the 10 year thing which happens in two years, you put away things that you've never thought, you know, they will scale and I've done the same, and it happens. And then it happens in a way that you would never ever have thought of, I can give you umpteen examples. I mean, one very quickly, I put down on my January or December December list was to upgrade my car, my car was only five years old. I got it serviced in the following June, it needed a new gasket, and I put new tires on it, I'd had it serviced. So it wasn't as though I was putting the energy out there, or I'm not keeping this car, I actually got to get the gasket from the garage, which was local, I passed it all the time. They were going to charge me a fortune to do the job. So I got a local mechanic to do it. And I had to just get the part because he had to split the engine to put the gasket and I went in the lady on the parts counter had a little sign up saying back in 10 minutes. Now I've had a moment I had a decision of do I stay and wait or do I go away because as I said, I passed it all the time. I decided to stay young salesman who looked about 11 came up to me shows I'm getting old and said, you know, just started general chitchat. And I said I'm just waiting for that. Just for the sake of argument. I said, Well, what's my car worth? No, you know, just to fill the time and he came outside. He looked at my car. And he went back in and he made some figures out and and then verse said, Well, what have you got on the forecourt that day? The next model up on every level to my car. So it was automatic leather seats. All the mod cons have been used as a demonstrator car, you know, for people to try out. It, they were introducing a new model of that car. So they wanted it off the forecourt and they knocked 7000 pounds off it that day, which would equate to something like 12 $13,000 Wow. So I bought the car, I went in for a golf course, new car.


Lynn  52:30

But you didn't go in, you didn't go in looking for the new car. That's where you go. But you know what the language that I love is, and I've learned, I learned this from working with Bruce Anderson was be the conduit, which is the no tension piece. And what he and I reflect on a lot of times, especially when very magical things are happening working with a horse is, but we're not doing anything. Like it's the this is, quote unquote, working. But what are we doing? And And therein lies I think one of the rubs is if I really need to be doing something this way feels counterproductive to my ego. Hmm. Yeah. And so letting it go is not just letting the thing go. But it's sort of letting go my own sense of pride and ego and thinking.


Kathy  53:26

Yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's total conduit facilitator. It's all the same energy. And I think it's because people ask what happens, you know, during a session, so I literally just put my intention on the personal the horse, and I connect, and when I connect, I feel it through my heart that's like, from my heart, and then my hands start tingling. And that's it. And I don't sit there really concentrating hard, sort of, I've got to go, I just relax. And I may go and do the washing up. But I'm always connected. I'm all my hands going the whole time. And I'm always aware, because I feel for me, it's the stepping back. That is the power. It's not the intent, the intense, you know, for me, and again, everything has its place. But for me, that seems to be the PowerPoint of, of just being absolutely present with your intention, but then not having to be physically fixed to that intention so that you're sat there sort of glued, I'm doing this, I'm doing this. It's about just stepping back. I mean, you asked about what can happen. And I'm going to say here very, very clearly, there are no guarantees. I say that to everybody because everybody's in a different place. And it's what's right that can happen or what's appropriate at that moment. So I I always say there is nothing and nobody on this planet that can make a system better. Can he can Make the system because if there was I, there was a system that was out of balance, therefore was ill, and somebody could come along and make it better, I had no choice to get better to heal itself, that's all we'd need, we would only need that tablet, we don't need that surgeon, we don't need that energy modality. I think the reason we've got so many different ways in is because there are so many different people, and everyone has a different experience. So when I work, that's my intention, I just connect to the system with the intention of conditioning the field, around the system for the system or for the system, so it can find the information it needs. And when I say that, the zero point field is full of entropy, it's full of dis disorganization, if you like, there's nothing organized, everything's flying around. And the analogy, which you may have heard me use before is that if you think of the field as a child's ball pit, so it's got hundreds of different colored balls, say for country, yellow, and green, and say the system I'm working with needs 5000, grain 4000, yellow, two and a half 1000, red and 25, blue, whatever, technically, it can find it, it could sit there and find all the different kinds of boxes and heal itself. And that's what I believe people can do. When I come along, if I put all of the balls into different colored all of the different colored balls into separate chips, you know, the red and the green, the yellow or separate, makes it much easier for the system to pick that information up. So that's just an analogy I use. Lord knows if it's true or not, I've just tried to find something that might make sense of the way I see it happening, because it is about getting the information from the field. But a recent one that happened and this really, really blows my brain. And neighbors had had parted with her husband, and they had two boys. And about two years ago, that the father of the boys, the boys saw their father, he committed suicide. And the oldest boy was about 10. And he was okay for a little while. And then he went into deep depression. So he was angry, he was sad. He was quite violent at times. And they, you know, took him to counseling, and they took into different modalities and nothing seems to be changing. She said to me that they loved bombed him, you know, gave him just total love. And then they tried withholding things. And nothing was helping. And he actually got to the stage where he said, Mum, I don't want to be here anymore. And when you hear a 12 year old say that anyway, so she happened to be talking to me about this. And I said, Look, I'll give him a session. I don't know if it can help or whatever. And we agreed that we do it when he didn't know about it, we wouldn't tell him about it because we thought if it doesn't work, it's another thing oh, look, I failed again. Somebody else hasn't helped me. And also, I said I'll do it when he's asleep. Because I love working with people when they're asleep, because they're just relaxed. And you know, whatever it works if you were standing on your head or dancing an Irish jig, but I just tend to with the young ones, especially, or anyone who's really ill do them when they're asleep, it work with them. And then we decided I'd do it early in the morning, one morning when I woke up because he didn't sleep well. But generally he was asleep early in the morning. Long story short, the next morning, I woke up at five o'clock and I thought, Okay, I'm going to work with him. So I did the session. I sent her a text about harbor six in the morning, just saying I've done the session, don't I, you know, the NGO keep working for two, three days, blah, blah, blah. I got a text back from her at half past one in the afternoon saying, I knew you'd worked with him because he slept or half past 10, which he never does. And she said he came downstairs and he was really as if you'd been in a really deep sleep. And she said his eyes were rubbing his eyes and his hair was all household. All I can say to Lynn, and this is what, eight months ago, he changed that day. Everything disappeared. So all of the Depression disappeared all of the anger, literally. So something happened in those five hours, where he reset himself. And I didn't know he did it. He found the information to reset. And she just said to me, I've got my son that well. And he was back to being a 12 year old boy. And that for me is one of the most powerful ones and that's the one that I would love signs to look at and say what could have happened? Because he'd been through the the channels of science and again, I'm not knocking it because they works with people, but it didn't work with him. But something happened between five o'clock in the morning and Harper's 10 In the morning when he woke up where he changed completely and he reset himself back to and I didn't know what he needed. I had no idea, right? I just put the intention out there.


Lynn  59:56

Right. That's that's just Adding, and yet it's hard. It's hard to discount like it's believable. It happened. Yeah. Yeah happened. Yeah,


Kathy  1:00:10

exactly. Yeah.


Lynn  1:00:13

That's amazing. And you I remember you telling stories you've done the same with horses? Oh,


Kathy  1:00:21

yeah, I mean, it's because I don't ask people why or what they need. And the universe I've found, takes me to places and shows me stuff. So that I cannot deny. And one of them was about with horses that I it was many years ago now. And it was at a local horse that was very unsettled in his box, and it was in a big American barn and anytime a horse went in or out, he was wheeling round and round and they lay down and relax, whatever. So I went there to work with him. And this the lesson this taught me was that the system I'm working with whatever it is, a person or a dog or a horse does not need to react to me as I'm working because some horses go in the zone. And sometimes I call it by one get for free because even working at a distance the whole bloody yard close not around. But anyway, I was working with this horse in person and he nearly mowed me down 18 times because he was just wheeling around the box anytime a horse went out. It was a Saturday morning. And I remember I walked away from that going well that worked well I don't think because it just didn't even know existed. Next morning I get a phone call. And by that evening he was fast asleep Sparco in the middle of his box and they'd never seen him asleep and basically he changes straight away wow I have no idea I'm It blows my brain my scientific brain wants


Lynn  1:01:48

my question on on something like that because with a human and the intention with the young man is sort of clear because he's he's communicated his depression, suicidal thoughts, His desire, you know, his hate hating losing his dad and so forth. But with with a horse, you're watching his body language but But what do you what is your intention for a horse like that? Is it to find peace? To find what he needs to be calm? Like, what is it that you send? It's


Kathy  1:02:18

exactly what the same as with the young lad, it's to condition the fields so we can find the information that needs to come back into balance at every level. Oh,


Lynn  1:02:27

to come back into balance. There it is. Yeah. Back to the I mean, that's this. It's so obvious. It's almost scary how obvious it


Kathy  1:02:35

  1. It's like Occam's Razor I love what comes razor, you know, the simplest explanation is usually the best. It is that because if you want imbalance at every level, you know, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, we're in hell


Lynn  1:02:46

all comes back. And you know, that's, that's been my work. I actually found what I, the piece of paper that I wrote, this is back in the spring right after I signed the contract to do the journey on podcasts of it. Yeah. And to be Speaker, I quickly wrote down in ink, what the message was. And the whole message was that the being in balance is not what matters. It's the learning how to get back in balance that recovery is the word. And that was the point of my speech. If you know us, the last thing I said is, remember, the recovery is the work and everybody thinks they're correcting from a mistake. And so let's just not make a mistake. And it's like, no, you're all this is all you're ever going to be doing is going back to balance. Yes.


Kathy  1:03:27

Absolutely. Yeah, totally. I mean, I love that because, and the thing is that the going out of balance is the learning, though. That's the lesson. You know, that's what why are we here? What are we here to experience? If we could keep in balance the whole time? We wouldn't learn anything. Yeah, we'd have this amazing sort of life, but with is the dying out of balance getting knocked off kilter. And then as you said, having the skills or the where with all energetic, physical, whatever it is to go on. Okay, that's not right. I can feel it now coming back.


Lynn  1:04:00

I literally think it's the only way we can not just learn but move like that insight came to me when I was waterskiing. I ski with Austin Abel, who's a ski Pro, and we were talking one day about the problem I had, because that we practice it's a scary lane behind the boat, you know, depending, especially when you're directly behind the boat, the skis out in front of you, you know, depending on how fast you're going and how far you Lane it's a couple 100 pounds to several 100 pounds of pressure. Right on your on your on the rope. They can actually pull gauges where they measure this. And so I practice that on a post by mosquito, everybody, like you go to any ski dock and there's a post, but the problem is it's a single point where you're moving back and forth the boat is moving down and you're moving across around the buoys. So there are 1000s Since a balance points in ages K Ron if not millions, and yet I was practicing for only three of them, which is the three times I'm going at that one point at that direction. It's sort of like the the analog clock that says it's twice, right. It's a day is it right there. And so he's like when the problem is you get there, and then you try to stay there and the boat is moving and your ski needs to move. And it's like, oh, da, your job is to continually rebalance. And then I had the good fortune to ride in the boat, Nate Smith, who is the best water skier out there right now and will arguably be the best of all time. Yeah, he's right. He's run the most difficult ski pass several dozen times more than anybody, all the rest of the guys combined. He's that good? Yeah. And as I watched him, I could see that he was just constantly resetting his balance, but not with a mindset of I've made a mistake, but with a mindset of what's next. Like he, even when he boggled he, you could see that he never did the Oh, shit, and then go, he did. Whatever, whatever. What's next. Like, it was just a, it was like he felt into the balance point at every move. And my theory is, if we could all just do that. Not that we're going to be as good as he is. But it dramatically improved my skiing. And if I remember that every single time I ski it's It's remarkable the difference? Because there's no oh shit moments.


Kathy  1:06:32

Know Exactly. You're never playing catch up. Because


Lynn  1:06:36

I don't I don't expect to have I'm not making a mistake. All I'm doing is staying with what's happening. Yes,


Kathy  1:06:45

yes, yes, yes. Oh, my God, that's so powerful. Do you know what that reminds me of? A while years ago, I went clay pigeon shooting? Yeah, oh, my God, I absolutely loved it. But the whole family went, I was always missing. And then he said to me, you know, as the play goes up, aim slightly in front, because you will be there, the shot will be there as the day. And it was like a hallelujah moment. And what you're saying is almost the same because you're you're putting yourself in that moment just before it happens sort of thing. Or you're counteracted the counteract in the off balance, you're you're imbalanced because you got Okay, that's happening. And the more you step into that, I would suggest then the greater you'll feel, because you know what's about to


Lynn  1:07:33

happen? Exactly. And, and the assumption that there is a there there goes away. So then you're not trying to stop on the there and go, yay, Goldstar. And, you know, when I was doing when I do clay pigeon shooting, the other thing about that is, and I've been caught many times, sort of freezing in place. It's like you lead it, but then you freeze. And it's like you actually have to, you're swinging. Yeah. And as you swing through, it intersects. But if you freeze thinking there's a there, they're not that there is no, there is no there there, right. And I do believe that not even intentionally, but our school system, because of the way we have to test and freeze things in time. We've taught people to lurch from goal to goal, rather than flow from tiny little point to tiny little point recognizing, you know, that this is where I am. That's the work. And that's how we stay in the moment.


Kathy  1:08:30

I love that. And that applies, you know, I'm thinking of all the things I can think of that where that applies. You know, when you have somebody who is in flow, when they're doing a sport or anything like that, for me, that's where they are. They're not stopping at the they're there. They're just going okay, we're just moving, we're moving. We're just


Lynn  1:08:51

moving. Think chill. Exactly. And there's what I it's like my meditations, what I've learned is if my brain starts going, I'm doing it. I'm not doing it anymore. You know, as soon as I'm like, Oh, I'm here. Nope. There. You just took yourself


Kathy  1:09:08

out. Shows that yeah, that makes so much sense. And I want to say that I experienced that slightly. We were talking before we started recording about you know, I had the absolute joy and blessing of riding cutting horses. And there were one or two moments, there are only very, very short moments where I was in the moment. So I wasn't anticipating or trying to work out things I was going with what was happening. And that's when I stayed in balance. That's when you know, I went with a horse before it was out of bounds versus on but they were just that couple and so when you're explaining that now, and sort of giving those examples. I so feel it Yeah, that Yeah.


Lynn  1:09:52

Yeah. And I feel like that the more I can break things down into their tiny pieces, the more i i quit, try to lurch to the next goal, and just move with the next moment.


Kathy  1:10:05

And I suppose there you go again, all we've got is now. Yeah, you've just have to sit in that all we've got is now because we just don't know, in your example of waterskiing, the rope could break in the next second. Yeah. So you can't foresee that, but you're just going with whatever is there with your experience and, and setting into that energy and into that flow. And that's where that's where I think we go to our power is when we can step into that and whatever we're doing, whatever we're doing, if we're writing or teaching, writing our horse driving a car, it doesn't matter. I think that if we can get into that place where we're really present, and not trying to work out what the next thing like you said, what the thing the thing is, what the next thing is, but just just following that feel following that flow, and I know is difficult, inverted commas probably isn't. It's our brain that makes it difficult because we think it's going to be difficult.


Lynn  1:11:08

Well, I, what happened for me when I quit seeking the balance point, and started recognizing the work was staying with the feel. I quit going, getting big adrenaline hits when I'd have a bubble. And what was happening before was I'd have to stop skiing, because I'd be so flooded with adrenaline. Yeah, but my muscles quit working. And so I'd be in the middle of a ski run and hit this, you know, huge bobble or whatever. And especially when you hit the weight, if you you know, you've hit the wet. I mean, when you're going through the week, I don't care how good a form you're in, you know, you're there. And the better form, the less it affects you. But still, you have to be strong through the week. I wasn't I'd get adrenaline and then I'd have to stop skiing. And with this insight to quit expecting to be comfortable. Yeah. And say, it is uncomfortable. But just keep seeking. Yeah, you know, and it is uncomfortable. Like the other day I was riding on the trail on the horse trip. And that used to be the kind of thing that would send adrenaline through me. And I realized I not only did I have no adrenaline, but like I was able to react quickly rebalance. So he got he found his balance again. And we walked on as if it was nothing. And it's because my expectation my mind had changed, which was no biggie. Where's the balance? There? We are. Keep on going.


Kathy  1:12:38

That makes so much sense. makes so much sense. And it is a practice, isn't it? Yeah,


Lynn  1:12:43

well, because I can't find his balance for him when he traps he has to find his own balance. What I'm my gut job is to try not to interfere.


Kathy  1:12:52

And there that's a beautiful, that's almost like what we're doing, you know, when you were saying with Bruce, working with a horse them with me when I work with a system, I can't find their balance. But if I can help everything get out of the way for them to find theirs, if you like you know by bringing, as I said conditioning the field, making it just a bit easier, but I don't know where their balance is. I love that because I thought of it in that way. Yeah.


Lynn  1:13:20

Well, when I taught my my little puppy last year to walk down stairs, she was you know, she's a doberman. So now is She's a champion. But when she was the size of the stairs, it freaked her out. Yeah. And I realized I couldn't teach her I had to set the conditions for her to teach herself.


Kathy  1:13:37

Yeah, yeah. And,


Lynn  1:13:38

you know, my way of teaching would have been interfering, actually. So I just had right I just I just stayed there. And I encouraged her when she tried and then let it be. And the more I the more I've sort of let her find her way rather than trying to show her how to find her way. Yeah, better and within 24 hours, she was going up and down the stairs. And I mean, I'm telling you I wish I should have been I should have videoed it because she would she's a she's a whiner. Evidently Dobermans have are known for whining. I didn't know this. Even though I've had a couple of them. But she would go well, you know, and just like, oh.


Kathy  1:14:16

Oh, well. Yeah, not exclusive to dramas, because I've actually got a video of our little Jack Russell when she was a tiny part. And she would run up across the state that stare back and forth barking, wanting to try and get down but uh, yapping. So like, they have to find their own way down because you can't.


Lynn  1:14:35

That's great. Exactly. And again, it's that balancing of forcing it or trying to take care of them too much. And it's like neither one of those is the answer. The answer is patience. And, you know, you can sit there and hold the space and be curious. I mean, be curious, give them you know, reward for trying and they'll find their own way and I found that with her she does that in every everything. I give her the space to do it that way.


Kathy  1:15:00

She finds her own way, but you're gonna find her own way. Yeah, yeah, I love it. But that is I love this conversation because it's when I talk about my work and what can happen, I really want people to realize it's not me doing it. Yeah, I'm doing the change. Like you said, you're, you're with a dominant coming down the stairs, you're you're being there being present for her watching out for her, but you're not doing it for her. And that's what's happening with me. And that's where you really want people to realize how powerful they are as healers, everybody is their own healer, end of story, end


Lynn  1:15:36

of story. And I have to say, you know, I work with a lot of leaders, especially leaders of change, where they don't understand this message, which I think is a message of empowerment. Right. And the message is you have your own power, I will help you access it. And as I've worked with leaders, especially in adaptive change, and I've worked with Ron Heifetz, and Marty Linsky, who wrote the book, leadership on the line, and as any, like the thing about adaptive changes, we don't have the answers, we actually are intentionally moving into uncertainty. I think we're in a lot of adaptive change in our country right now. But a lot of companies, for example, are what are we going to do with artificial intelligence? There's a lot of uncertainty. And it changes the beliefs around how things work. I've worked in the medical field where bringing in electronic healthcare records changed the way doctors interfaced with the records of their patients, and their patients in the room. And what you know, the whole system of how you get paid, and how you document diagnosis, all of those things. It's not just a technical change, it is a change within myself that says, Who am I am the system? How do I fit? How do I influence? Yeah, how do I do things? And to me, if you're, if you're setting about helping someone create a picture for, for example, my dog going down the stairs, or a hospital CEO, saying we're bringing in electronic healthcare records, or another same hospital CEO going, you know, AI could be one of our best friends if we learn how to harness it. Yeah. But you could have a picture for that of how that could work. A vision is we call it in the corporate world, I like picture because it's so literal. But they have the answers. The people in your system, empower them, allow them give them a chance to go through the struggle to find their own answers, because that's how the system will change. Not because you think you have to know what to do when to do how to do. You can?


Kathy  1:17:49

Yeah, that is. And I think that that's been shown, isn't it when big companies like Google, give people time off to go, and they they sort of jam between themselves and how many new ideas have come up because of that, where they go surfing, or go, yeah, it's time off, go coffee, go and have a coffee and sit there, we're not going to hold you to sitting at your desk for a certain amount of time. Because they've realized the power of people being present and in each other's company and riffing off each other. And that energy of discovery, when you have people together, rather than as you said, one person having to try and find all the answers,


Lynn  1:18:30

and monitor everybody to make sure they're doing the thing with their hours that they're supposed to be doing, when most of the time what you really want them to be doing is making new connections. Yes, and see things differently. And those set the conditions for that to happen.


Kathy  1:18:47

Yeah, and then that's the thing, we are all connected to everything. I truly believe this is my belief. And I don't know, obviously, if it's drawn up, I think that the every thing that we're ever going to create the information that the energy of it has been there since creation. And it's how we've evolved to be able to Can we can we access it? Because was it Leonardo da Vinci, he designed a submarine he designed a helicopter way before his time because the technology was not there to bring his vision into being even though he had you know, and I mean, we can go into massive conversations, you know, about pyramids and what happened before and whether there was ancient civilizations, but I honestly believe that all of the information is there. It's just that when we're ready, we reach a point of access, which then we can make sense of.


Lynn  1:19:42

Yeah, well, it is all there. And you know, I love the stories like what was Elizabeth Gilbert story about the book that she was gonna write she


Kathy  1:19:55

was gonna write and then she didn't and then the other


Lynn  1:19:57

the other one picked it up and I heard Roseanne And cash in an interview talk about songwriting. And somebody asked her her process that she said, You know, I just try to catch the song when it comes. Or someone else will get it.


Kathy  1:20:13

There we go. Yeah, because they're


Lynn  1:20:15

there. It's in the field, like you said, and, and speaking of in the field, I have to ask you, because I don't know this term, could you tell me what zero point field means?


Kathy  1:20:27

This is gonna be a very layman's explanation of ways


Lynn  1:20:29

because I'm a layman, please? Well, as


Kathy  1:20:32

far as like, it's called zero point, because they've looked at it at zero point temperature, which I think is minus 273 degrees Kelvin, or something like that. And it's the energy in the field. And it's the energy which is like the matrix that connects everything. And a scientist, a really, if you want to go there is Nassim Haramein. He's a quantum physicist, okay. And he's really bringing through some new information about what the the energy of the field and he truly believes that we should be able to harness this energy of the field to use, instead of the power we use now, I,


Lynn  1:21:11

I actually have to believe that that's possible, there just has to be a


Kathy  1:21:14

way because the the power of the power, the energy of the field is so huge, one cubic centimeter he believes could power us for years. And I love it, because he tries to put a spin or not a spin, he tries to explain in terms of how reality comes about, because if we're all energy, how do we see things? What are things and he talks about the field, you know, as I said, being this random energy if you like, and then if you that he talks a time space, you know, fractals, and goodness knows what, but I love his analogy of if you had a bath of water, which had the plugin and was not being disturbed, all of the water molecules are moving completely independently, completely randomly, if you looked under a microscope, you'll see that in, in physics, from what I remember, it was called Brownian motion, and you'd put some smoke into a little chamber, and you could look down the microscope, and you just see the Linlin there just banging off each other in no order. But he said, When you pull the plug of a bath of water, the water becomes ordered, because it goes into a spiral. And it's a dictator, dictators sort of shape. And so he uses that as an analogy of how physicality can come about is that the field in the space time continuum, can go into a spot, what you could say was a spiral, and then it creates a form that is recognizable. That's as far as I can go. Because my little brain, I read his stuff, and I understand and, and, and then I think, okay, I can do no more, because that's just way beyond my comprehension. But I know he gives these examples. And I really like his work because he's so approachable and so down to earth. And yet his work now is groundbreaking. And he's getting a lot of all of the scientists on board. He's not putting anyone's back up by saying who is this people are. And he's proved staff using his knowledge, which could not be proved before. So he's actually connected the micro at the quantum from near the radius of a proton to the mass of a black hole, using the same parameters, which couldn't be done before. And he's done that. And I'm not saying him on his own, you know, team of scientists, but yeah, that has now been done. Yeah,


Lynn  1:23:36

well, that reminds me of the Japanese person that put different intentions with water crystals is a moto,


Kathy  1:23:43

Moto, Moto. I actually got to see him in person is amazing. He was blessing. Absolutely amazing. Yeah. Yeah.


Lynn  1:23:52

And, you know, I'd love to conduct that experiment myself. But I don't have a microphone. I mean, in my microscope, I guess I could get one but, but but the idea that that changes things, but I have, I have 100% noticed that when I change the way I see things, the things I'm looking at, this is the Wayne Dyer, quote, change. And, you know, when I walk into a meeting facilitation or something like that, I have learned to be very, very clear, with my intention. Because just like Emoto, changing the water. You know, if I go in with a certain mindset, it changes the water in the cells of everybody in the room. Yeah. And we have, we have to recognize that we have these, you know, this ability, these powers to influence each other because we are, as you said, all connected. And


Kathy  1:24:46

so, you know, I always say if you want to change the world, change yourself. Because if we walk down the road, I've got a little video up on my site, which I call I'm wonderful. And I always say that I people say how are you? And I say I'm Wonderful. And you get three reactions, they go well, she's certainly up her own Jaaxy thinking she's, well, you get people thinking she's weird, or you get others to go, yay. And you, you know, but it's that you project that that wonder that enjoyment, that joy, that love, whatever you want to call it, and the next person picks it up is why are smiling everybody on the street? Yeah, just to go Hi, I'm here. Hi. You know,


Lynn  1:25:28

I see you. Yep, I've learned to do that. I actually do that in airports, I try to just send out as much positiveness as I have in me towards everything that's happening around me. And when I catch myself starting to get judgy, and oh, believe me, I do. I remind myself, that they're not the only person feeling that energy is me like, that's, like, you know,


Kathy  1:25:53

it's, like you said about when you change the way you look at things and things, you look at change. One thing I've said to quite a few people is somebody who say, has come through depression. And they've had a hard time and they've sort of breathe deep, and they've come through. And I say to them, Do you realize what you've done, you have put that energy, that information of how to get through a depression into the field, and it's ready for the next person to pick up. Because I believe we're in constant communication. So we're receiving information, and we're putting information back out there. So that when somebody overcomes something discovers something, bad information goes into the field. So they've done something magnificent, from my perspective, and it can help them sort of go, oh, gosh, yeah, you know, that it's the struggles been worth it, if you like,


Lynn  1:26:45

that is huge, because I have really come to believe if we don't claim our progress, we lose it. And furthermore, I feel like we've been conditioned to say, I'm always looking at what we haven't done as opposed to what we have done. And then we look at what we haven't done and beat ourselves up, and then even beat ourselves up over beating ourselves up, because we know it actually doesn't work, even though we intentionally are beating ourselves up to try to be better. I catch myself, you know, it's like, Oh, there I go, you know, having ego about my ego or beating myself up over.


Kathy  1:27:21

It's never ending. Yeah, yeah.


Lynn  1:27:22

But that idea of claiming what you've done to say, look, how far I have come? Is the answer to like solidifying it into your foundation. But I think if you beat yourself up, you keep just taking, you just keep digging the same hole over and over again. And you know, that that may be how the pyramids were built, was built with that they claimed it, you know, right. I just envision that. That's the way we're supposed to work, not this other way, which says, I'm never enough. But look how far I've come instead.


Kathy  1:27:56

Absolutely. And it is just a change of perspective. That's all it is, is that you just look at things in a different way. And 100% what you said, we're conditioned to never be enough. You got to keep striving you've got to do and the the the one that's put on the pedestal is the one that's done it on his own. I mean,


Lynn  1:28:18

don't shut it down bullshit, because they haven't. There's no, there's no body. No, there is no body. The story a lot when I was when I was teaching the self awareness program, a lot of the leaders I worked with, were secretly wishing they could do it all on their own. And, you know, if only I didn't have to be a leader and have all these people helping me dammit, I could I could make this work. And I would tell the story about Eric, I think it was Eric group. Who was the it was it Eric Rudolph that lived in the mountains of North Carolina it was doing well. We had I think it was the guy, the bomber. But anyway, he was huge search. Everybody said, This guy is a mountain man, western North Carolina is very desolate. There is no way we're ever going to find him because this man can live alone. off the land. No human help. Yeah, so never gonna find him. And people bought into that lie. He was getting help from the town. Showing up at the back of the grocery store. People were giving him cans of tuna fish, or whatever it might be. Yeah, even the guy that everybody said was such a mountain guy that could be a true hermit and really live off the land was being helped. Yeah. And my definition of leadership is actually the first element is you're not a leader unless you know how to ask for help. Because by definition, leadership says it's not just me, I need you to. Would you help me create my picture? Yeah. And yet again, we've been conditioned to think we're supposed to have the answers. We're supposed to be able to do that. As we don't need help. Yeah,


Kathy  1:30:02

yeah, that makes so much there's a book I absolutely adore is radical wholeness by Phillip Sheppard. And in that he talks about how we've been conditioned to that all answers come from our head, do we have to think the answers, the answers are going to be thought out? And he just says, Well, how well are we doing then? And well, so that's where he talks about our connection to the body, and the wisdom of the body. And he talks about feeling the space within your space, the reception the space within your body. And it ties in tightly with the nervous system, because obviously, when we're in fight or flight, we close down, we protect, it goes down, and then we go to parasympathetic, we open out, and that opening out makes us more available for the energy and the information to come into us into all of the energy centers, you know, into our guts into our heart into the lower dantian. And that's when we can feel and connect more effectively. So he's, he's a great one, and I loved it, he does an exercise. And again, I can't remember all the details, but he's basically I think he calls it the escalator. And it's about scanning through your head down. And as you go down through the chakras or energy centers, if you feel a blockage, he says it so sweetly, he says that's an orphan energy has been cut off from coal. And so it's about your recombining it of bringing it back in. So you've got everything flowing. And all of the information is there from top to bottom. And so, you know, they say there's more, there's more afferent nerves going from the heart, so the head and from the head to the heart. So there is that energy center, there's all the stories of the heart transplants, when the receiver of the heart, the recipient of the heart has the memories of the person they received it from, they solve the murder. Because of it on a young 11 year old child, the recipient began to have nightmares, she described them. And it was about the death of the person she had the heart from, and they actually convicted somebody from


Lynn  1:32:04

  1. Because she was able to identify the murderer. Yeah. Through the memories of the heart. Yeah. And


Kathy  1:32:13

I know, this is the thing. And I've spoken to some people sort of in the in the industry, and they've got Yeah, no, no, no, no. And the other thing is, they've done studies where they show graphic images to people, randomly generated. So some are nice, you know, pretty flowers and bunny rabbits, and some are graphic, and they're all wired up. And they find that the body, the brain is reacting to the graphic image up to four seconds before the image is shown, showing that we have this pre cognition. And the other thing as well, going back to Philip Shepards book, you coming from a world of finance, they found that the best traders were the ones who knew their body best. Yes,


Lynn  1:32:59

I've heard this. And it totally makes sense to me. Because the more I have tuned in, and I am really early on this tuning in Journey, even still, it feels like, but there are moments where I feel a click. Really, yeah, it's like a, you know, it's just like, that's the knowing that that inner knowing of what it is I need to do or where it is I am or how that works. And the more I work with horses, the more I'm finding those clicks. And it's stunning when I get myself out of the way how connected to the horses I can become. And especially that feeling of making a mistake that's, you know, silly cloud of, you know, oh shit, oh, gosh, I'm not doing it right or doing it wrong. And all that does is disconnect. And when when it's gone. You know, you haven't got like the horses melt. And


Kathy  1:33:51

the and they you go that there is no such thing as failure. There is no such thing as information. That is the change of perception of what is


Lynn  1:34:01

its us calling it it's us labeling it in a way that puts that cloud up. Yeah. As opposed to seeing it for what it is, which is at worst, it's not yet. Yeah. Well, that wasn't it. I asked for this, but that wasn't the way to do it. You know, so what is the way?


Kathy  1:34:18

Exactly? And you know, what do they say the all the authors that have put their books to umpteen publishers and never got there. If they stopped, they'd never have done it. You know, JK Rowling, how many people she went to? Yeah, before that, and it wasn't accepted. It wasn't accepted. Now look at it. And it's all information. And if we look at everything that happens, and again, I've got a little thing about judgment, and it's called the tower talk and I sort of slides it's really simple. If you imagine a four sided tower and at the top of the each at the top of the tower on each side that points the cardinal points for the and comfort. So north, south east and west, north, you see a forest. West, you see the see south, you see a river, East, you see a town. Now if people grow up there for people and they grow up, and all they do is look out of that window. That's their point of view. That's their perception. That's their knowledge. And if they come into the middle one day of that tower, all of them are going to say, well, your point of view is wrong. I'm right, you're wrong. But all it is, is how they've grown up what their perception is. And when we can accept that people, you know, it can be on politics, football, religion, whatever. They're not wrong. That they are, that is their point of view. And it's as valid as ours, it's just, it's different. And I always end it by saying the only way to really get to know people is go on the roof and have a party, because then you see everybody's point of view, and it all comes. But I found it very, a very useful visual for people who really are stuck and cannot understand why someone else cannot agree with them, or you know, they have a different a really radically opposed point of view, just how you can, you can really go in depth. And you can say there could be a big window on one side, and they can almost see around the corner. So they have a broad perspective, or somebody has a narrow arrow slit window. So they have a very narrow point of view. And we use these words all of the time to describe how people think and how they relate stuff. But when you think about that, if that's how they've been brought up, how can you expect them to be different and it's not they're wrong? They are a product of their conditioning. So it's about acceptance of that.


Lynn  1:36:46

And a recognition that we have these filters that are sometimes self imposed, and sometimes life imposed. Yeah. And we can change our filters, but we have to recognize everybody has them.


Kathy  1:36:59

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And that's another powerful thing you know, about how you a lot of my work with people is about recognizing patterns, and how they are affecting them now. And quite often it is you go back and you see something that's happened previously, whether in childhood or not, which was, again, you know, when Jane talked to work on the podcast very early on, and said to him about how his nervous system, putting him in particular places was just protecting him to have that big aha moment. And I really understood that because when you can see that you might have experienced had an experience as a child or a youngster or something that was repeated over and over, you go into a pattern to protect yourself. And that's a good decal. And then when you get a my, I had a pattern that took 50 years a bit of a slow learner over here. Two years before I realized what it was. And then it was like, Oh, my goodness, there you go. And it's just so liberating. You accept it. And I always say, you know, the wet wet, which we everybody says, you know, awareness is key, because that's the moment when you realize you're doing it again, you go, Uh huh. I don't have to. This is change. So awareness is key. But yeah, it took a long time to get back. But nevermind,


Lynn  1:38:22

well know that you're not the only one. And actually, you know, awareness is essential, but then you have to make the choice to not still go into it. Because I've seen people double down and say that I'm aware. It's just the way I am. And I've talked to leaders that have done 360 feedback that had been told they don't listen. And they're like, how many feedback sessions Am I gonna have to get where you tell me? I don't listen, that's just the way I am. And it's like, Have you ever thought about maybe trying something different? But they're actually making a choice. And, you know, what, what I do feel like, it can be very scary to let in new information.


Kathy  1:39:00

Exactly. That's exactly what I was gonna say. It's scary. It's fear, because it's change. And we're used to a certain energy. And so if we stepped into that different energy of say, you know, as we're the leaders, okay, for this time, I'm actually gonna listen, not jump here. Because what might you hear? What might you have to do? Because you've heard, what might people think about you because you've noticed the line. And it's all about perception, we people can get into such a frightened place about what other people think about them. Of course, and I mean, that is a very powerful thing. For me. The two things are Integrity and Authenticity, that if you can sit in a place where you are yourself, and that takes a lot of doing it to be absolutely you know, it took me years to actually witness that out. When I spoke to work, I think six people knew about it and then rather a lot more knew about it after the podcast. But you've got and then integrity is through In the best you possibly can at that moment. And if five minutes later, somebody shows you a different way. It's no point beating yourself up. You did not know at that moment. And I think a lot of people with horses go through this now, because there's a big opening out into different ways of being. And I've been that I've gone Oh, geez, what did I do to my Oh, my


Lynn  1:40:18

gosh, me too. And, you know, as you mix those people together in the same barn, their way is the only way. And especially when you're using a less is more way where you're connecting or allowing connection with your horse. And you're not as you know, demanding and so forth. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I have I, you know, I just had a very short experience of having two horses. But I, I was sometimes almost tortured, watching the different ways that things were done. And, you know, sometimes for me doing the best that I could. But getting I more than once got over my head with my horse and had to have help from somebody wasn't going to do it the way I wanted to. But that was the only way we were going to be safe.


Kathy  1:41:05

Yeah, you had to survive. And I think you have to allow yourself to make those choices. But it's interesting. Sometimes when I've been at Horse clinics, I used to organize quite a few horse clinics over here. And somebody would come in on the horsemanship route. The people in the audience that had followed, I'm going to say a more traditional route, they would get so angry, really angry. And it was as though they understood that what the clinician was showing them was the correct way. But they realized they'd spent the last 20 years spending energy doing another way. And now, if they wanted to move forward, they had to give that up. They had to admit to themselves, and they'd probably use the woods. I've wasted 20 years doing it this way. But the anger was palpable.


Lynn  1:41:53

I can understand that. The beautiful thing about horses is they're incredibly forgiving.


Kathy  1:42:01

Aren't they just,


Lynn  1:42:02

it's just us that needs to forgive ourselves. Right? Like that's a moment for self forgiveness to say, You know what, when I knew better I did better.


Kathy  1:42:08

Exactly. Exactly. And, and even when the you have the slip have gone. Oh, God, I've done it again, the fact of the recognition. And you know, that goes on to the talk of being congruent. You know, when we go to the horses actually going, I've cooked this up. Sorry. So oh, well, oh, my


Lynn  1:42:30

gosh, I've done that justification game so many times. It's like, okay, I blurted something. And now because I said it out loud, I have to live into it up. Yes. As opposed to going, You know what, that was completely not what I'm at, I'm going to, I'm going to take a different path and what my blurt was, yeah, I played that justification game. Why all too often because I stand to be wrong and make a mistake and think I was a failure. And yeah, if we all could just get back down to just that.


Kathy  1:42:59

That one thing, and I mean, it between partners and husbands and wives, you know, they just have ever been there done that one. Everything,


Lynn  1:43:07

everything. Well, so I, as we as we sort of, come to a close on this conversation, I always like to ask my podcast guests, what would you want my audience to hear from you, it could be a request an insight, something that you would just want to call out for them to pay attention to, but just sort of giving you the last word to say, Hey, this is what I hope you most leave this conversation with? What would that be?


Kathy  1:43:38

Again, it'd be How long have you gotten? No. For me, my life's driver is for people to realize how magnificent they are. Every single person. And situations can change people into different things, we react to different things, it doesn't matter. For me, as I said at the beginning, everybody can heal, can connect, can create and can find purpose. My job is to help people but I truly, truly, truly believe those innate abilities are within us. And we just have to open ourselves up to the possibility


Lynn  1:44:22

you know, my one of my mantras is to reach for your Tools instead of your rules. Oh, I love it. And the rules being what society and parents and even what we made up as this is the way the world works. If somebody looks at me like that, it's time for me to run for the hills or or fight with them or whatever I might do. Yeah, you know, what are my rules but enrich for your tools, which are more like listening and curiosity and awareness and observation and just pretty much everything that we were given at birth and that's to me, what you just said is, just look you have it? Yeah,


Kathy  1:44:55

that's exactly it. That is exactly what I hope For message, all there for us to take, you know, all there for us to sink into and know that you are connected. That's the other thing because people need, that connection isn't late, you cannot not be connected.


Lynn  1:45:14

Yeah, and what if we don't feel connected? It's just because we've put blocks up in our own perception, not to notice it. Something's


Kathy  1:45:22

something and again, it's not blindly, it knows Meishan that somebody says something, and you immediately sort of withdraw and go in. That's the moment of awareness to go, why did I do that? I didn't, let's see what happens. If I do this.


Lynn  1:45:39

I love them. Let's experiment. When it's happening, while the little cells are agitated, you know, and the awareness is there. It's like, I'm going to try something different. That's the way we rewire our brains and change who we are, and not really change who we are. To me it's unleashing we are, it


Kathy  1:45:57

is yeah, unleashes that much. But and I have a little thing that I say, and I'm sure Carrie lake was the one who brought it to melt my attention is I say to people, if you are in a funk about something, but you were aware of it, and change feels frightening 10 seconds, for 10 seconds step into that different energy of, I'm allowed to do this, or I'm going to feel happy. And you don't have to know what the happiness needs to be about. It's not about knowing that, but it's just that exchange of energy. Because for me, that's the moment you start you like with the ice baths, putting the wedge into the reaction. And also you start forming new neural pathways so that when that happens, again, the brain has got a different pattern. And the more you do that, 10 seconds, and 10 seconds is doable. It's


Lynn  1:46:47

and then you can go back. Yes. The backdoors right there. It's kind of the iceberg. Because that first 30 seconds you say to somebody, just do the four and a out two of those breaths will get you to 30 seconds. There you go. Yeah, Orianna. Eight out. And that's sort of 15 seconds, when you take this the pause in between and you're at 30 seconds, and then you're you feel your body kick in and go, Oh, we're gonna hit you up from the inside out. And that's why two minutes is doable, because the 30 seconds is really that part where it's like, okay, just 30 seconds, and then you can get out and then you don't want to get out at 30 seconds. 10 seconds. And the new energy and then you don't want to leave it.


Kathy  1:47:34

Yeah. And the more you do it, the more because the change is scary because we know the old energy and the new energy feels wrong. The new energy fields do. So that 10 seconds is you dipping your toe in the New Energy? It's like dipping your toe in the cold water and going okay, yeah, I'm getting used to it.


Lynn  1:47:52

You know what, it's uncomfortable either way. Yeah. One One form of discomfort the beating yourself up the staying the same not liking the way your life is going. That form of discomfort spiral shoot down. The other one spiral shoot up. Love it. No, why not? If you're going to be discomfort discomfortable that's a new word.


Kathy  1:48:11

No, no, we're going to keep that word, okay.


Lynn  1:48:18

But if you're gonna be uncomfortable, then why not make it something that feels like it's spiraling you up and freeing you to be full of integrity and show who you really are, have your authenticity,


Kathy  1:48:29

I that one of the things that I often say is, you know, the big picture of why we're here. And what happens when we die. And I always think to myself, nobody knows until we die. What actually happens, we have lots of theories and lots of experiences, but nobody actually knows. So for me, I'd far rather go through life going this is the hard bit where I'm learning the lessons. And at the moment of death, it's like release. Okay. Now, all we could go through life going well, when we die is a black hole. That's the end of everything. And what's the point of everything? Either of those might be right, but I'd far rather choose the happy one, the one that get to it the going yay. Come on. Let's see what's going on. Because that sets the tone of your life. It


Lynn  1:49:16

completely does. You know, I I had to coach someone through an email that sent him into a tizzy. This was a very senior executive. And the email was simply this from his boss. Could you please come see me after your three o'clock meeting?


Kathy  1:49:34

It's not sentimental to


Lynn  1:49:37

it sent him into a tizzy because of the context and because of his own mindset and so forth. I tell this story in my book, The elegant pivot but what what's interesting is that the punch line was until you see him you don't know. Yeah. But what you do between now and then how you choose your thoughts is up to you. Your mind is Well choose a positive thought. You can choose it. Exactly. And he was just like me, he turned that screen around. He goes, Can you believe he said this? And I was like, oh, boy, you're gonna have to fill me in. I don't know what's wrong with that sentence. Give me Give me some clues. We actually sat there and brainstormed dozens of other possible productive thoughts. And he in that exercise that day began to realize, if he had gone in this, his assumption was, he was in trouble for something he had shared. And if he had gone and prepared to defend that, that's exactly what would have happened. Totally. But instead, it was a strategic conversation that benefited both of them. And I've often wondered how many times I've done that, and how many times people who don't have this information go in and create their own reality? Because they chose to think life is a black hole. This is it. What's the point? And that's what you create is a life that's a black hole that has no point.


Kathy  1:51:02

Yeah, well, I mean, we could talk another hour or just on that, oh, I


Lynn  1:51:06

know. What I feel like we've done a great job of laying out some really cool ideas,


Kathy  1:51:14

not talking to learn.


Lynn  1:51:18

Now, we can't start without letting people know how to work with you, or how to find you say that. And of course, this will all be on my website and on the show notes. But just in case, somebody's driving along and saying I have to know more about Cathy price. Less.


Kathy  1:51:30

Thank you, Danny, very simply, my website is Kathy price.co.uk. Through that you can find everything but I you know, I'm on Facebook, collective price point of balance. If you search point of balance, you'll find everything but I mean, my website is probably the best place because you can get a hold of it. And you can find all the links on there. Yeah,


Lynn  1:51:50

and let's just be sure because we have some a lot of American listeners Kathy price.co.uk. Yes, I'm automatically we all do the other but it's done. Okay, yes,


Kathy  1:52:03

I th why my mum managed to monda choose to have the longest word Catherine Elizabeth. And it was like cheers mom and dad. That's two of the longest names you could think of about 18 different ways of spelling it. So of course, you have to be specific. Yeah,


Lynn  1:52:19

but your way we've got So Ka th y price, and that spelled this traditional way. So what's forever for everyone listening, so glad that you made it this far with us. And if you enjoyed this conversation, please please share it with your friends. And as always, I'm going to ask you to write it on your podcast app, because that's how the word gets out. And till next time, we will see you on the next podcast. Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less of. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast and of course subscribe and rate it on the different apps that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.

Kathy PriceProfile Photo

Kathy Price

Facilitator. Seeker of knowledge. Giver of Hugs

Kathy Price

From a very young age horses have been THE passion in Kathy’s life. Even though Kathy grew up in the suburbs of London with totally a non-horsey family, somehow the love of the horse was always the most powerful thing in her life.

Kathy comes from a scientific background gaining a BSc (Hons) degree in Zoology. Her mindset was always based on the scientific paradigm of you had to be able to “measure it, replicate it and explain it” for it to be true. If those criteria were in place, she was happy. If they weren’t, she didn’t want to know.

That was until in 2003 when with her horse Midnight she went to a horsemanship clinic with clinician Len Judd. For her this clinic was the moment of transformation, a spiritual experience that changed her life.

From that weekend forward, as she stepped into and embraced the world of energy and connection, her need for scientific explanation fell away and her mind set became
“My Experience is my Truth.”

Now after many years of studying energy, quantum physics, healing, spirituality and training in several energetic modalities, Kathy is well-established in her own, unique work which she calls Point of Balance.

Through this purely energetic work her aim is to facilitate the person or animal she is working to move back into balance at all levels - physical, mental, emotional and spiritual.
This move back to balance not only helps them to heal themselves, but also helps them realise their unique power and potential.

Kathy knows categorically that is the horse that … Read More