#7 Chris Braund and Karen Van Sickler A Playbook for Adversity
Early 2020 promised to be the year newly minted entrepreneurs Chris and Karen would break through in their business Pampered Pets Inn. After spending most of their careers in the corporate world as project managers, they were thrilled to apply the principles of leadership, process and controls to a business that was just waiting to take off. Then the corona virus swept in and shut down the travel business. Almost overnight, they were forced to pivot on a dime and face realities no entrepreneur wants to face. Listen in this episode about how they evaluated the unfolding situation, navigated their emotions and made their decisions in this active and fluid environment.
Chris: 0:02
welcome to creative spirits unleashed where we talk about the dilemmas of balancing work and life. And now here's your host, Lynn Carnes.
Lynn: 0:21
Hello and welcome to the creative Spirits Unleashed podcast. This is Lynn Carnes your host, and today I am excited to introduce to you, Chris Brawn and Karen Van Sickler. This is a couple that I met almost 20 years ago when I moved to Lake Lure for the first time. What made us become almost immediate friends was that we had something in common on every level. They were a young couple as we were moving from the city to the little town of Lake Lure to both be corporate citizens and work in the corporate world, but also have a life in the weekends that allow them to do outdoor activities like we all love to do together. So we water skied together, hike together and did all kinds of things outdoors as we got to know each other. And then, over the years, he actually became the town manager for this town of lake lure to apply all of his amazing corporate project management skills to our town. And then Karen got amazing job with America AmerisourceBergen and said they started splitting time between Charlotte and lake Lure. Eventually they decided to become entrepreneurs. And for anybody that's ever lived in the secure world of salaries and projects and dense work jumping, taking that leap to become an entrepreneur is a huge leap. But they were more than ready for it until now, when the recent Corona virus has hit in the spring of 2020. And that's what we talk about in this podcast. This one is titled A Playbook for Adversity because they are building it as they go, and they had their entire lives and careers to figure out how to do this. I wanted to talk to them because I knew they were thinking about things not just on the level of what to do about their business, but on the level of public policy, on the level of problem solving, on the level of transformation and change that happens as a result of all of this, and on a level of handling their own lives and that of their employees. So we really dive in on this conversation to that playbook for adversity, and we just touch on so many different topics about how they got through it, not just from a logical standpoint, but also through the emotional change curve that we all go through the sort of seven stages of grief. Some people have four stages. Some people have five stages. I don't care how you label it. When things change, you're gonna go through some emotions and they share and pull back the curtain on how they've navigated through that as well. So let me give you a little bit of a background on the two of them just so you know who we are, who we're talking to here. Karen was a management consultant, and there she led, you know, technology and business teams. Through multiple transformational change and growth opportunities. She supported organizations from the United States, the Caribbean, diverse set of industries. And Karen is all about building collaborative relationships and efficient process of design, sort of everything she's engaged in. Putting those two together is a powerful combination. She also loves CrossFit, and she is one fit woman. She loves to ride mountain bikes, and she also really loves to garden and loves the contemplative nature of gardening. Chris, who also co owns Pampered Pets in With Her is a computer programmer. He's been a regional manager for a pest control service. He was a partner in a global management consulting firm. He, as I mentioned, was the town manager of lake Lure, and he also was part of the group that built the local charter school that my husband, Russ, was involved in. They stood up a school from the ground up. In every one of these experiences, he learned how to build to fix, to transform something, and every single one of those endeavors built new skills, which he's applying in today's world. Now, when he's not working, he also loves to be in the mountains. He climbs, he skis, he bikes, he hikes. And right now his project is building out the custom camping ban for he and Karen's adventures with their dogs. Because, of course, if you own the pampered pets inn, you better have a couple of dogs, which they do. So I really think you'll get a lot from this podcast. I hope you enjoy it. So, Karen Chris, welcome to the podcast.
Karen: 4:55
Thank you. Thank you.
Lynn: 4:57
thanks for agreeing to do this. Just for historical context. It is the end of March 2020 and we are in the middle of social distancing all over the world. As you have already heard on the introduction. Karen and Chris are the owner of a pet salon. Give me that. Give everybody the name of your, your business.
Karen: 5:24
It's pampered pets inn we do pet boardings. The dogs and cats, we do dog daycare! We have Salon, a spa! And then we also do dog training.
Lynn: 5:38
So my guess from our emails, a little bit of exchanges. Your world is changing. You all are like One of the reasons I want to talk to you guys right now is you talk about being on the front lines. You're kind of on the front lines, but more like in the bull's eye of the impact of this.
Karen: 5:57
Absolutely So what has always been great about our business is that we have lodging in daycare. So when lodging slow, we have a lot of daycare. But right now it's just it's been a double whammy because nobody's traveling and everybody's working from home. So the lodging has fallen off almost completely, and the daycare has fallen off almost completely. So we're left with basically a little bit of dog training and some dog beds.
Chris: 6:27
Our business is very seasonal, and everybody in our industry gets used to the ups and downs of the seasons, and you can plan for that. And philly, another service is so. Summer is a very big season for us. Thanksgiving and Christmas is very big. We tend to have kind of a quiet time until we hit mid March, and then April is wide open, typically with spring break and Easter. So we were really in a mode of hiring up and getting ourselves ready to be at full capacity, and the bottom just totally fell out. And we we've always known of how tied we were to travel, but we really never on. We've had brief outages where hurricane has come through or potential of hurricanes come through. It's given us a glimpse of when everybody just hunkers down and freezes in place and nobody moves. Nobody travels, but that's last two that most a week and then we're right back to normal, right? So this is not something that we ever really even imagined. And, yeah, our industry is probably most similar to anybody associated with airlines or hotels. Airports, that rely mostly on travel. It's just done for a while,
Lynn: 7:56
and it's interesting because you're saying it's done for a while, but we don't know how long
Karen: 8:03
right that's true. So trying to plan, it's, you know, there we are in the in the midst of it, and we know we have to do something. But what we do is based on how long this is going to happen. So in the case of a hurricane, you know what you can pretty much figure out with what the end time is gonna be. But here our plan for is that two weeks. Is it four weeks? Is it two months like what we want to do and The options available to us are different based on the length of time,
Chris: 8:32
The thing is, this hard to navigate right now, socially and with other businesses is you made a comment that you know in where you are and your particular work life things that not yet changed that much we're finding that people's worlds are very different, depending on where you are, what you do. and so while our business is we're scrambling and we're, you know, really trying to figure out what is the next month. Looked like was tomorrow Look like, you go out and other businesses are busier than they've been and other people are really their world hasn't been affected yet, so it's just it's kind of hard on equilibrium to switch back and forth between We're in a pandemic plague and hey, it's beautiful spring and business is busy for some people.
Lynn: 9:32
It strikes me that I've always seen this kind of thing happen. Chris, you sent me back an email after I sent out my rough waters make good sailors blog and I really read your slots in detail and you talk about how the flag business did so well after 911 And it made me think about business. You know, times like this where we have opportunity for some people and not for others. And that's exactly what you're saying. Some some companies, some businesses, are gonna have more opportunity than ever thanks to this, Like we're on a zoom call. Talk about a business that is getting more business than ever. Is how to work virtually like we are
Chris: 10:20
Yeah. And so some of that is, I think, good planning and people's part in being strategic. Ah, lot of it has been luck. restaurants, I think, initially thought that they were going to be hammered, and fortunately, they found a way to pivot. And while servers have been hit hard if you're if you're cooks. If your delivery drivers you're helping to take carry out meals, at least in Charlotte restaurants are I think they're gonna be able to hang on.
Lynn: 10:52
Yeah. And what kind of y'all are in Charlotte? What kind? What? How many people are having it right now? Like, does it feel like it's gonna like a bunch of sparks are going to spread? Or does it feel like you're containing it very well,
Chris: 11:05
who knows? It's like it's like nationally. Sort of depends on which projections and prognostics you listen to. I think there's at least from Mecklenburg County has gonna stay home order surrounding counties are starting to do that as well. The the number of confirmed cases is going up. I don't feel that there's a lot of testing going on yet, but I think at least from a government perspective. They're being very realistic about the math of exponential growth. They're being realistic about the science and thinking that there's really very little reason that our area will experience the wave and the spike that New York and others will. So we're preparing for that. But on the other hand, I think there's a There's a theory that we're going to test as a society that says early social distancing is going to help. And it's gonna help, reduce that spike in places like Charlotte. Well, well, I
Karen: 12:16
think what's interesting is right now there haven't been a lot of reported cases, so people don't know other people who have gotten sick yet. So it's a kind of a little bit of an unreal world, like we're doing these things to avoid getting sick, and we're trusting in the experts and so forth. But nobody has any hands on experience with it. So
Chris: 12:36
in the people that we know an encounter, again, they're all living in different worlds. We have friends and family that haven't left their house in 10 11 days on our getting delivered to them. They I mean, you know, and they're they're living, daily news briefs from Andrew Cuomo in in New York and watching what's going on around the world Best world, and they fully anticipate that's coming here. Then you step outside and there's more people outside running and walking and taking their kids and the dogs than we've ever seen because everybody's working from home and people in lows and the parking lot is packed not of people necessarily, you know, prepping for disaster. I'm just talking contractors just regular day in, day out, Their jobs haven't changed. People are building stuff, so it's really it's hard to judge.
Karen: 13:38
I think they're They're also people that are posting about how much they're enjoying this time. So I think for a lot of people there companies are paying for that to work from home. So this seems like an adventure, Sure, so they can Oh, they can cook a new recipe and they could spend more time with their dog and their kids. And so, um, I don't leased it from our peer group. I think were the were the ones were like the only ones kind of experiencing an economic impact from this. Everybody else is being able to pivot. It's just a lifestyle Changes opposed an economic change for them
Lynn: 14:10
right? Right. And you said Chris and Karen, both one of the things that really struck me when you were talking about people watching like Andrew Cuomo. And here you are in Charlotte and you're watching what's happening in a different hot spot within our country, but in a way, a world away. And I've also noticed that some people will turn the news on all that, whether their flavor of the month is conservative or not conservative, liberal or whatever. but what I'm noticed is how did you get your perception? How do you How do you know? How do you guys make sure that the data you're making your decisions from is good data? Because I notice just this morning on the news, they were repeating a statistic from Wednesday as if it was new, because they didn't have a new worser statistic to share. And I was like, Well, they're still trying to get the news. But if I hadn't been kind of tuned into that, I was going Oh, my gosh, more people are dead. Well, it was this. It was an old statistic, actually. So how are y'all doing? How are you managing your
Karen: 15:14
perception? So from a from a business perspective, we relied on our business days. So we So when it first, You know, when the first story start coming out, we just looked at our numbers, our reservation numbers and so forth. And so it really didn't matter for us what we believed to some degree. It didn't really matter what we believed. It mattered what our customers believed and how their lives were being impacted. So we just looked at the reservations and there was a point at which we I noticed the trend. And we realize that. And that's what we sort of balancing different concerns so we don't have enough reservations. To. You'll have enough business to cover payroll. And that's when you start doing the math of Is it less expensive to stay open or close? And then you start thinking about Okay, well, how long would I have to close? Because if I close and then I re open in a week or two, I might as well just stay open and cut it out. Then you start thinking about okay, there's risk. there's just your customers about coming in. There's risk to your employees when they come in. So then you start doing things to minimize risk while you're trying to make a long term decisions. So we moved to curbside pickup, and we started doing a lot more cleaning, although we actually do a lot of cleaning already. But there's some additional things. So I did some things. We minimize the risk to the customers pretty much like there really wasn't much contact for them at that point. Then we look at our employees and they're still having to come in, and they're still having to interact with other employees. And so you just start weighing the pros and cons of all those and just noticed the trends. And so when the our business isn't in Mecklenburg County is actually iredell country. But some of our customers are Mecklenburg. So well, so when the Mecklenburg shelter in place came out, it was okay. Now that's helped. We were already poised to close, but when that came out is like our business is gonna drop off even more so we can handle it. So this this will accomplish several things off it'll handle are the risks are employees. If we go ahead and close, it will handle it will address the business risk about, you know, paying more for payroll. Then we can get in revenue. So it just so it didn't really matter what we thought about the pandemic risks. It was really about what the drivers, the external drivers were telling us to do
Chris: 17:37
to your to your question about general news, I think what what I thought at least is every day I look at a variety of sources and, and I give more weight to primary Sources is kind of like a historian will go directly to the person that knows so I think experts have risen to prominence here. It's nice to see when they get TV time, and it's not filtered through somebody that's reporting or that's taking a sound bite out of that. So it's been it's been informative, you know, to watch Dr Fauci, who's been in that job amazingly since the eighties, Cuomo as a leader up in New York, and other leaders I think are really shining in this this moment on. Then, when you read about, you know, the experts that were running the math and doing the projections and reporting on what's working and what's not, so they have to read the doom and the gloom and read the positive on DDE figure that that that casts a cone of possible futures, and we're gonna be somewhere within that cone, that cone moves every day. And so we prepare for the worst and hope for the best and see what tomorrow brings.
Lynn: 19:06
Well, you know, there's so much I want to unpack in what you're talking about, because it's first of all, the back to what Karen said. You all didn't sort of decide what to do. Randomly, you let the situation tell you what to do.
Karen: 19:22
Yes, that's right. And I It was about every single day re running the numbers and re looking at things and talking to customers and taking to step like every day was exercise in disaster planning
Chris: 19:40
As an example, we would have, 50% of our reservations upcoming cancel. You know, we would call them, and in that conversation they would cancel out they're not going anywhere where they would call us so while everything is clear off the books rapidly at the same time, the phone rings all day and we add three or four new bookings and and it was kind of a sounding to us, Where are these people going? What are they doing? But they have a need for somebody to take care of their dog right. So that made it difficult for us daily to see. Is anybody still booking and what they need and why do they need it? And are we the resource? Are we the right resource for them? And that's a responsibility that we felt balanced with all those other drivers that Karen talked about. If everybody just canceled on us, it would be easy decisions to make. But they were never easy,
Karen: 20:34
and then the numbers get still point. Where we were We were in a position where we had a lot of lot of lot of of animals coming in, so so from a staffing perspective, we had a lot more. We have a lot of efficiencies of scale. We had some specialized. We have some specialized positions and we've got kind of a comfort level in terms of staffing. It's like OK, we know how many many. Then you get into a rhythm and then this happens and all of a sudden you have both. You were pets. We have in house. the more accurate we have to be with our staffing level? We're home because that's relation to how much money we'll lose, sure we're overstaffed, We're gonna lose a lot more money. So we had to. We had to pivot and much more refined in terms of exactly how many pets in house can we have and what staffing level do we need to have for this many cuts of house? Because I was determined that our quality wasn't going to go down. So we have very strict rules around how many how many dogs could be out in the yard with a handler one time and very strict clean protocols. I didn't want any of that to go. I didn't want customers to have to not get called back for hours at a time and so really had to think about how we can still deliver deliver, quality of our level of service, but with fewer people and then on top that you got people calling and canceling other people calling at the last minute making reservations and then you have no shows. So people whose lives have been just totally turned upside down and they forget to call and cancel the reservation. So it's like, Oh, my gosh, how do you How do you staff for this? and that's when that was very, it was very challenging
Chris: 22:19
So we made a decision that we made the decision a couple days ago that the best thing for the business and the best thing for everybody was to cease operations for a period of time that corresponded with Mecklenburg County. there stay at home order and in announcing that rolling of that news out to the staff and rolling it out to our customers, I feel we're ahead of most other businesses. , least in our industry. There's a number that are still trying to hang on and gut it out, and many of them will probably be able to do so. I have a different model then, then we do, but I But I also feel like, you know, in all probability, we're just ahead of things, then that if this gets worse, which is likely to do. I think of the businesses, you're gonna do the same numbers and come to the same conclusions and be closing. And one of the things that we're hoping is that we're helping our staff get ahead of that wave you get. You know, unemployment applications in ahead of other people, get ourselves prepared before you know while It still feels relatively quiet here.
Karen: 23:43
Yeah, the other nice thing that I think it did WaS. So by removing us, some of our customers still need services and so we were able to were able to refer them to another family owned business in the area. So we were in close communication with some other places. And so we've already some of our customers are already have reservations of place, so we're giving them a little bit of business to help them stay. stay open. but by kind of reducing the amount of competition, it's making it a little bit easier. Maybe for them to stay open
Chris: 24:16
We met with our managers yesterday to pivot into our maintenance mode now that we're going to cease operations and be closed for a temporary but indefinite period. we still have a building and an outdoor pool and fish feed, we've got a variety of things that need daily attention. So it's interesting. We've got,, no mothballed the factory, and yet we're on a rotating schedule, where ourselves in our key management team are gonna visit and check on things, maintain some things, and it also take the opportunity to get some projects done that have been on our list for a while
Lynn: 25:06
Yeah, I I cannot imagine how difficult some of those conversations, by the way, it had to be with people because, you know, when you're building a business like you've been building, you cultivate your staff. You have such a high level of quality that you do everything in your power to sort of empower them and get them excited and fired up to be great, especially when you've got a busy time coming. And then to have it just have the rug pulled out from under you. What? What has that been like having to have those kind of difficult conversations?
Karen: 25:38
Well, it's heartbreaking to dismantle something that you worked so hard to build, like what's so sort of focused on the like the TO-DO's . What's interesting is our staff seems more concerned about how we feel because they realize how hard this is for us. So they've been our staff has been wonderful. They've. When we asked him to work, they were. Some of them were quick to violence year, like they came forward and said, Give somebody else my hours. When the woman when our started declining, people would recognize like Hey, I don't I could get by and living with my parents or I've got other means of support. Give my hours to somebody else. So we had a staff volunteering hours for other people. They were very flexible about the hours. Nobody complained about it all. They would come to work cheerful. They would do do their job and then they would just. It just showed a lot of concern for us and how we felt. So
Chris: 26:36
yeah, it's been amazing. It's been really encouraging, that we haven't had really difficult conversations with anybody because, you know, it's Karen said. We've focused on the fact that it is temporary and everybody is firmly committed and has faced that that there is an end to this and we roar back to business and everybody comes back to work. I think that coupled with the severity of the situation nationally and globally, I think all of our staff get it. And they said, Okay, this has to happen. This is not a a misfortune that only our businesses and suffering. So you know their response has been great.
Karen: 27:23
And the number one hugest support that we've gotten was one of the the unemployed. The changes to unemployment, the loosening of the requirements to file for unemployment and the fact that the unemployment won't count against our unemployment insurance. So it's a win for the employers and the employees. That was huge. That enabled us to, I won't say guilt free. Make the decision to close because if you still feel guilty, But, it made it a much easier decision, it's like I'd rather than go take unemployment and be safe than to come in, and we day by day, try to stay open and exposed. them to more risk,
Lynn: 28:09
right? And it's both of its. In some ways, it's both risk, right? It's the financial and it is just the exposure risk because the reason people are staying at home for for 10 days is they don't want to get it. One day I was thinking today, just, like has been going on forever, and it's barely beginning, if you really put it in right, You know, it's actual number of days. So how did you guys like, How do you guys see yourselves navigating, man? Um, the next few weeks, debt, days or weeks. Like I know, um, you used to own an arctic boat. So do I, um, years ago, not that many years ago, maybe five years ago, I was down there for a factory tour and they actually described how, during the 2008 financial crisis, when it was clear people weren't gonna be buying boates, that they retooled their factory and used it as a learning opportunity for the people they could keep on, They couldn't keep 100% on, but they kept some of mine and basically used that as a time. I think that you kind of want to like a lean approach. And of course, they'd come out and become quite dominant since then because they took that opportunity. And so how are you guys gonna I already know the two of you Well enough to know you're already thinking about how to use this. What are you doing, To Take advantage of this time.
Karen: 29:35
Well, what's interesting? So we've got, we bought the business. We created some management positions with the general manager of an office manager. We have two supervisors. So the our office manager and general manager, we've kept them on their salaries. We've kept them on through this through this period and what was really exciting to see you is our office manager yesterday. She's like care of the one who talked to you. I've come up with a list of projects and things that I want to accomplished while during this period. So it and then our general manager done the same thing. So it's really it's really exciting to see that they're in that mindset. We work in the long enough that that's what they're thinking about too But it's gonna be about process is making sure all of our processes one bought the business there. None of the processes were documented and their base kind of doing their own thing. So we we have clearly established processes, but they're not. There's there's there's more we could do in terms of documenting them clearly. So we're gonna get our process is updated. We, there are some things that we had to do Is a part of it we decided to do is a part of this virus that as I was implementing on life, you know, I kind of like to do this going forward. So,
Lynn: 30:48
like me, for instance, of something like that,
Karen: 30:52
the, curbside curbside service for daycare. So when people come, we just take their dogs and we had to come into the building, but also the leashes and harnesses. So every customer, there are apparently a 1,000,000 different types of collars and harnesses, and my staff has to learn how kind of use all of them under kind of extreme circumstances. with with a wriggly doll wiggly dog trying to get a harness on and trying to figure out how to get to clasp and all that. So, I like the idea of putting a lead on and having the parent take the collar hardest off. That'll help Buster look labor standpoint, cause a lot of times the parent comes to pick up the dog, and we're like, in the back trying to get the harness on the dog and that the parents standing there waiting for us.
Lynn: 31:40
I've been that parent and wondered how the hell do they figure out that this was the way to put the collar on , I'm like, how does that work and then I've come to the conclusion it's because they got a big wriggly dog and they have a million harnesses
Karen: 31:41
Exactly. So So I'm thinking that's a process that we can never make it. We'll just keep that one. Um, just some time I have those
Karen: 0:00
Exactly. So So I'm thinking that's a process that we can never make it. We'll just keep that one. Um, just some time I have those
Lynn: 32:05
een that I've been that parent and wondered, how the hell did they figure out that this was the way to put the collar on and how Does that work? And then I don't know. I come to the conclusion that because first of all they got a big wriggly dog and there's a 1,000,000 harnesses should. Exactly. So So I'm thinking that's a process that we can never make it. We'll just keep that one. Um, just some time I have those
Chris: 32:05
air too, huh? Yeah, a kind of a bigger, more strategic level. Um, part of the part of the disappointment of having to shut down right now is that if you had asked us at the end of February how our business was doing, we would have a huge smiles and said, Oh, my gosh, this is gonna be an incredible year. We had, we're 3 1/2 about 3.5 years into since we acquired the business in the 1st 2 years were very much investing and retooling and transforming and kind of rebuilding the business from the ground up. It was a good business, but we wanted it to be great. So after that initial two years of work, last year was really great. It was you could really see the cumulative effect and customer and quality of customers and customer base was growing. And the last 3 to 4 months, you know, we've been beating the prior year by 30 to 40% every month now, and it was just rolling and built up a head of steam. And so it's disappointing. But that encourages us that when we're when when this thing clears and people are traveling again, you don't pick up quickly. strategically, our industry was in the past year, undergoing lot of change and there was a lot of kind of big money in venture capital and private equity was discovering the pet care business. And, and we're in acquisition mode and so in there, you know, lots of offers, lots of people, no couples, they're ready to retire selling and so there's a lot of pressure in the business to expand, and it was difficult to find places to expand because commercial real estate was so expensive. So there are lots of strategic challenges that come with a high growth face of an industry. Now I look ahead and say, Well, what's the next day's gonna be? And we have no idea. Is it gonna be business as usual or, you know, like it after 2008 2010 the financial service's business kind of got back to normal. No, I don't know that our society and industry will get back to normal or something different than normal, you know? Will there be lots of mom and pop, facilities that don't make it? I just don't think cash reserves to survive an extended outage has that become an opportunity to serve that market that's no longer served. is demand for the service is change. who knows? So it's hard to predict all we all we're trying to do right now is preserve ourselves until the storm passes and put ourselves in the best position possible to take advantage of whatever opportunities might be out there.
Lynn: 35:24
We don't know Well, that so one of the questions I had as I was listening, what you were describing. There's so many places we could go with this because it's theirs. Yeah, I hear you all are doing two things. you are being really current and present to What is at the moment that you're balancing that with what might be in the future and not trying to get too far ahead of yourselves or behind, You know, And I think that's a balancing act when things are moving so quickly because I think a lot of people have been caught flat footed by this other people might have been even too far ahead of it. But it seems to me like y'all are hitting that balance pretty well and that you've had it sounds like a a big and ever growing client nights. So one of the questions that came up to me among the many as you were speaking was, how are you staying in touch with your customer base so that they don't forget you. So they get excited about traveling again so they can bring their babies back to the place that you know, doggie camp where the babies. Love it. How you all doing that?
Karen: 36:33
So we, uh So we have, Ah, fantastic marketing coordinator. And so we retained her as well. And so we've been up. Up to now, we've been sending out pretty regular updates to our customers by email Facebook and Instagram just letting him know what's happening. So when we made procedural changes, we email them about it in post. And so so through this process, we've been staying in close communication with them in that regard. Now, during the closure, what we're gonna we don't everybody's getting tons of emails from, like, every business business they've ever done business with. And so
Chris: 37:13
is a cove in 19 response
Lynn: 37:18
like delay, delay, delay,
Karen: 37:19
way have a monthly customer newsletter. And we've been very, very strict about on Li e mailing customers once a month with promotional is we do a customer newsletter and that's it. Any other email didn't come from us in the past has been confirmation. He knows about their upcoming reservation, so we'll have a lot of customer newsletter. But we'll probably use then Facebook and Instagram because those are people that wanna follow lesson one and you know what we're doing, so we'll do that again. It kind of goes back to how long we're out, but we're strategizing now about what kinds of updates we can provide. Since we have no cuts and house, normally it's pictures of you, Pesce, um, that are staying with us. So we're gonna have to be a little bit creative about the kinds of things will post. No, but but I have a very talented person whose job is, is focused on customer communication.
Lynn: 38:15
So one of the things that I've been noticing out there on the social media world is that people are, you know, the people who are win. The people in the pets who are winning are the ones who never get to have their parents at home. Right. But normally we're gone or home all day with Mom and Dad. Same for kids, actually. Same for spouses. All of a sudden, people were used to kind of like meeting at home with. Now we're stuck at home with right. What are you hearing about? Like what I'm hearing are tuning into. Most people don't want to admit this, but I think there are people who are, like, you know, kind of that old retirement thing. I married you for life, but not for lunch. I love my kids, but I maybe don't love them so much when I have to be the home schooling parents. All right, maybe the pets are different or not. But are you hearing any skinny on how people feel about being that with their their loved ones, including their pets all day long?
Karen: 39:09
So I don't think it's been going on long enough yet for that. but we did get some last minute reservations this week from people, and I think that might be part of the incentive. We did run a promotion in our sspa trying to get people to get because we knew this was coming. So we're trying to get people to bring their pets in to get baths. before we closed for three week so we did a promotion about. Do you really want to be home with your stinking wait? We got a bunch of people. They're like, As a matter of fact, I don't, think they got some some some bags and some day care because of that. But yes, I definitely think that will be part of it. I mean, we have right now, people come to us regularly every week or their dog to get exercise and socialization. So we definitely worried about them, definitely concerned about them in terms of what would happen. So one of our models might be we might not open full at the end mid April So right now retired into reopen on April 17. It may not be a full reopen. We may just open a couple days a week for day here and baths. Yeah, until you know the situation changes. So we're kind of looking
Lynn: 40:18
clipping that hair and clipping those nails because I know for myself I can do it with my dog to clip her nails. I get very nervous cause I'm never cut into the blood, but I don't I don't want I don't want to. It's almost always when I have her with the dog camp. I said, you know, going by there and clipper,
Karen: 40:39
right? And a lot of people do that. And so so that that concerns me that we won't be there for people to Yeah, for the next three weeks,
Chris: 40:47
one of interestingly, one of the one of growth areas in our industry has been, you know, private, pet sitting and pet walking service is like like an uber or lift. Sure, and there's a couple of technology platforms that have accelerated this. Most of the growth is in big cities where somebody can put themselves on the on the app and say, Hey, put me up with your dog and I'll take care of It is interesting that, the people in the gig economy are gonna really struggle during this during this outage and coming out the other end. you know, I don't know if that that sector of the business will be as strong as it has been. Or or maybe it'll be stronger. Who knows? But you know, the conventional brick and mortar type facilities like ours, you know, I've always been strong, is a different sort of service, and we come back. We'll still be. I need for us of the big variable for people is how long is it gonna last appeal as a country be able to let this thing you know, I kind of think of the forest fire analogy speaking of lake lure. Let this fire burn out hot and quick, and then we can all get back to business, or if through people's decisions and behaviors, if it keeps lingering and popping back and flashing up in places and we're in it for months and months, then I think there's just a lot of businesses that won't be able to hang on, and we'll be in a different, indifferent world, including people of corporate jobs right now. As we were saying earlier, it's pretty nice for people they can just work from home. Yeah, I keep getting a paycheck. I think that on a corporate level, if we're still in this a month or two months from now, there's gonna be different decisions about how long their cash reserves can continue to pay people to You know, be working, not selling,
Karen: 42:59
because yeah, because even our friends who are like, yeah, I'm home for work that they can't know if you're in sales. Nobody's buying anything, no matter what the product is most so let's hear.
Lynn: 43:09
That's exactly right. And yet for some people, it's just having to learn how to work from home and be really effective and still doing whatever thing they were doing. But, you know, the the flash that went through my mind when you were talking about that. Chris was what happens to corporate real estate? Yeah. And you know, you you like, you know, we all came out of the corporate world. We all worked in offices where there was lots of space dedicated to us having our spot to go to work every day. And if you cut that, even in 1/3 or half, all of a sudden the market is gonna be flooded with all this corporate real estate, right? You know what's gonna go in there and what happens to that? Like the ripple effect, I think can be pretty pretty profound here. Pretty, You
Karen: 43:56
know, morning price prices
Chris: 44:00
come down, then we could use that real estate. I mean, that's been our strategic struggle for the past year has. Then we can't grow because our demand in our market is in dense urban areas like Charlotte,
Lynn: 44:14
where it's expensive,
Chris: 44:16
where so expensive it's prohibitive. But we couldn't. And zoning is difficult. We couldn't find a place to bring our level of premium experience. We have to charge so much for livestock lodging in day care because of the real estate. So it's been an interesting we kept saying But boy will be nice when the when the market adjusts on gets back to something that's less than white hot. This wasn't the way that we expected it would happen. There may be silver linings.
Lynn: 44:46
Well, I'm I'm I'm really sure there's gonna be silver linings for sure in the long run. The I think the real struggle is this uncertainty. And what, what can't survive both people and businesses through the short run? Right. And you know that forest fire, Chris, I I have way. We lived through that massive fire here in 2016 in lake lure that started with a spark. And it made me think of this this virus, right, One little spark. Somebody flicked a cigarette. And 7000 acres later, they finally got that fire out. And you know what One thing catching another can do, but but it cleared out the underbrush. And then we were much less at risk for fire. And I kind of draw that analogy to this virus. I've shared that with somebody who's in the know a little bit with sort of the statistics of the medical side of it. And he pointed out that in Italy and I think also in the United States, only 0.1% of our population has it. And yet it's overrunning the hospitals. Now that's somewhat localized is well, but that's I think the the flip side of it is, Yeah, but you still have to burn the city down. And what comes out on the other side, so vast, elated between Should we let it just burn on out or should we let it? You know, should we do what we're doing? Have you all had those kind of second? I'm curious about the second guessing. What I'm really talking about is how I second guess what we're doing, what the guidance in the country is, What kind of second guessing. And you all found yourselves in in the middle of all this.
Karen: 46:23
Oh, I think it's exactly those two pieces. It's like, Oh, my gosh, we this this is this is a disaster, and everybody's gonna get sick. And we understand the impact of the hospitals. And I mean, that's absolutely one image we have. And then you read some some more optimistic pieces from, qualified experts who have a little bit different take on it. So That's why it's like, Oh my gosh, what if we close down and then it's this passes and then, you know, we're closed and I gotta reopen. I mean, yeah, we've ass elated between the two, But, um,
Lynn: 47:02
you know what? It's much ado about nothing, although it doesn't seem to be that, you know,
Karen: 47:08
I don't think it's much ado about nothing. I think it's really just more about what's the best way. Do you just grin? Not grin. But, you know, just grit your teeth and just just get through it quickly. I don't know.
Chris: 47:25
I don't either. It's, um it's your analogy about the rough waters and sailors. It's This is like, I think, calm before the hurricane, Hurricane are similar analogy that some people just like, Hey, let's have a party. Ride it out. Other people bail. Um, and it's those. It's those days and hours beforehand. That are tough because weather is nice, all right? And you're like it's hard to believe that a massive storm is like gonna be bearing down on us in a couple days because right now it's beautiful. Let's hit the beach. So that's kind of a period that we're in in Charlotte, we know that because we're a dense metropolitan area and in North Carolina, it's gonna hit here. First minute already has to a small extent, just gonna spike and how what that love was gonna
Karen: 48:20
be Here is what it is for me. I I just want decisions to be made in a collective, collaborative way. So if our if our government thinks that we should just shut down just like just just grit your teeth, let's just shut down. Let's give the let's let's or missile while we're shut down. Let's get really focused on some goals like let's make sure everybody gets tested. Let's make sure there's enough equipment because we could just focus on on an effective plan. My fine, we'll get behind that. It doesn't matter if I think we should close or not. It doesn't matter if I think it's a big to do about nothing, or if I think that it's the biggest disaster ever to hit us like it doesn't matter. It's like somebody needs to make the decision. We all need to work together and work towards that plan. Yep, and what we don't have that in this country right now we have. We have everybody making different decisions. And so it's frustrating because as a business, owners like, do I go with this side? I go with this side. Do I do this? Don't do that. Come on my own plan. So it's very ineffective and inefficient, And so it's going to be more impact than it probably needs to be, because we can't just all get on the same page with a plan. And then
Chris: 49:41
before, Yeah, I think this is the weaknesses that we have, you know, are when you when you don't have a coordinated response in different regions, one reason will leak over into another region. I read an interesting piece yesterday about New York that made me think of Lake Lure reason. Everybody knows what's happening in sort of, you know, the nexus of the crisis in New York City. Well, now it's come out after a couple of days. People realize that when the initial stay at home order came down, a bunch of New Yorkers didn't stay at home right. The raffle it enough to go to their second home, their mountain house on their beach house away. They were in a highly contagious state, Right? So Mayor's on. Managers of small resort communities have said, G, we were OK until everybody poured out of the cities into our community. And we're shopping at ingles and We're mixing with everybody, and I wonder if that's gonna be the case, you know, in areas like like Lure that, you know, rather than locking everybody down. If we wait until it's kind of too late, then we just ensure that it's going to spread to rural communities.
Lynn: 51:06
I don't think there's any way to avoid that. It dawned on me, as as we've been trying to calibrate our response and I had to do some traveling earlier in the month that I didn't really want to do. But when I came back to Lake Lure when in the grocery store and I'm looking around going, I'm not the only one that may have just gotten off. I didn't get off a cruise ship, but people have I knew of. At least one person in town had come in from Australia, and. So and this contagious thing lasting, you know, early, you could be contagious for days before you know it going in and picking which apple to get. You know, every time I pick an apple, I'm like, I wonder how many contentious people have touched it, you know, really having to think about those things. But I think you're right. The sparks can get. It's not just in the dense urban areas, it's anyplace the fire has a chance to catch, and it just takes one person carrying it for that to happen. So you're right. We're in that period right now where it's calm and it's hard to believe it's coming. And yet in a few days, we might be going, Oh, we saw this coming but never dreamed it was gonna be this bad.
Chris: 52:11
And people in people in New York or dealing with it are screaming at us. Going guys is coming
Karen: 52:16
right now, and I read a quote out. Remember the exact words of it, But it was like a after the fact. When you look back on what you did, you're not gonna think you overreacted. So it's like just just just do it, you know, like where customers come in. And we had already started changing some of our procedures and he's like, You know, I think this is just overblown and I said, I hope you're right. I hope that we are overreacting like that would be great, right? Yeah. So it's like, Fine. If if if we're not doing this without any knowledge, we know what's happened in China. We know what's happened in Italy. So it's not. This isn't a mystery like the course of what this virus is going to do. So let's just do all the things that have been proven effective over there. But let's just go on, get on the same page and just do them take the pain. This is gonna be painful. We want to be you like short, quick pain, or do we want it to drag on for months like, let's just get it over with and just do just just follow what the experts tell us we need to dio and after the fact we can do, ah, do an analysis of what worked and what didn't work number that usually didn't work. Then we know for next time because this is certainly not gonna be the last time we have some kind of viral epidemic so
Lynn: 53:33
no. In fact, if you saw, I'm sure you'll have probably seen Bill Gates 2015 Ted talk. Yeah. Where he actually predicted this exact thing. And you know, this is the way this is the way you know. It's the small things that humanity needs to watch out for. It's like the mosquito, you know, There. If you you can ask almost anybody. What is the animal that kills more humans than anything? And the mosquito kills a 1,000,000 people a year? Well, and we think it's the shark. Oh, that's some 1000 or whatever. Like the numb. If you actually look at the numbers and put it in place, you go. Wow, this little mosquito, which we just slap off our arm and hope we don't get because we don't have malaria in the United States. But we do have some other diseases we've had have diseases, that kill people, and yet we just go on about our lives. Mmm. So, yeah, it's, it's an interesting numbers game, and I think you're right. the Other analogy of rust and I've been talking about is flying a little airplane versus a supersonic airplane like a like a fighter jet cause I had a chance one time to get in a simulator while I was taking flying lessons of a little, you know, really slow. It's almost like a bicycle of an airplane that Cessna 1 50 you know, trucking along. You almost can't get behind the plane because it's so slow and then you get in a really fast plane and you have you actually have to believe you're overreacting to even begin to stay up with the plane because everything is happening so fast and it's a different brain mode to be in. And it made me think about your comment Karen about what? We might as well overreact because we're not gonna look back and think we did over react, right? And it's just how to get your mind wrapped around what you need to do, because it's so easy to think that can't happen to me. This couldn't happen here. This is gonna impact my life too much. So what advice would you have for people who are trying to get their minds wrapped around it and how they could get real with it? Like because you don't really strike me as having gotten real with what's happening and making really good solid on time decisions. What would you say to people who are still trying to get their hands wrapped around it to pierce through their own, not wanting it to be that way? Because all of us have a little piece of that?
Karen: 55:57
Well, I like that. I like the concept of what is it the seven stages of grief for and I just kind of so I gave myself time for each of those. But there was the and I don't know exactly
Chris: 56:07
what there's anger and denial.
Karen: 56:09
I don't have it in time for me. But you know, when I, like, go ahead and have your angry moment like a great star Angry moment, do it. But time, box it and then, you know, have your depression is one. But but if not, you should go ahead and time box and give yourself time to grieve, but just work through them. But then focusing on a goal. So it's like, reset your goals. So our goals three weeks ago for March revenue was much different than it is now. You know, it's just recently create a new goal and work towards it and create your task lists and just and just work towards something and resetting resetting goals and, like success used to mean this success now means this. That's been really helpful for me to focus on things I needed to do and what my new goal waas.
Chris: 57:04
where I noticed ourselves, falling back on the things that we're comfortable with and that we're good at and that bring us comfort In a situation like this you can't really like suddenly change the way that you think and make decisions and do work. The two of us are very analytical, and we're very data driven. We always have been, and and in times like this, it's been comforting for us to dig into the numbers and every day look at kind of various things because that's a form of of kind of therapy for us. It makes us feel a little bit more in control when we really have no control over this. But conversely, you can't switch to that kind of decision making mode if That's not the kind of person that you are. If you're very instinctual and you rely a lot on, you know, listening to other people and getting a sense of where things were going. If that works for you find a way to keep doing that. you know, for us, it's heads down and, you know, we for two years in rebuilding this business maybe what we did was we instrumented it with all kinds of data and tracking. Yeah, tools that were not there so that it enabled us we weren't thinking about a situation like this. Are you thinking about how can we run this business? I'm more remotely How can we do well and not be there every single day? Well, we need to have, you know, a dash board. We need to have gauges. We need to have things that are telling us what's going on in this business. and and it's been really good to have all that in place so that you know, when the storm's coming and the ship's tossing around, we have a sense of OK, well, we really know what's going on
Karen: 58:56
the other thing is, I always like to look for a silver lining. So how can we make this situation work for us? Like, what are the positive things? What will be better because of this situation. Yeah, this is one that's been really hard to find that with. So I celebrate the little ones like I kept needing to reach out to a couple of the other, boost another opportunity to network with other people in our industry that are local. So
Chris: 59:25
as as partners, I hope that you and I balance each other out because I tend to be more, you know, I look at it like actuarial science, Okay. And I'm like, Well, this is the worst case scenario that could happen. And it's good to kind of balance those out, and Karen pulls me back just like it's probably not gonna be the worst case, but at least know. And, um, you know, somewhere it's good in a partner to be able to find that that balance
Lynn: 59:51
to find that balance and out. Well, if you if you lift out and look out for a year or two or more what do you think this is going to energize in our world, in our country in just humanity in general? Do you see? What do you see in terms of what this might energize?
Chris: 1:0:12
Well, have a list of things there a wish list that this black little
Karen: 1:0:16
my biggest one, my biggest one, like I have long been an advocate of people's health insurance should not be tied to their employer, right? It is. It's a really awful model because people then can't switch jobs easily, which I suppose if you're not a good employer, you're like you like that you've got people trapped. But But it's it's a lousy system, and so I hope people will look at it. There are a lot of people who are gonna lose their health insurance. Because of this. We made the decision. So we offer health insurance is as an option for employees. Most don't take us up on it because even though we pay 50% of their health insurance premiums, the other 50% is still too high for a number of our employees. Be able to bored, but a few of them took it, so several of them we just laid off. But we decided to pay their full premium while we're in this phase. But a lot of people, a lot of employers lay their employees off , and they're gonna cut their health care benefits. So we have a lot of people now without health care, even more people without health care. so So trying to get health care for our employees with our small business has been very very difficult because we have a small pool and so, So we're so we don't so large. Corporations have a much larger pool, so their insurance costs are you lower than ours are. So here we are, small business, and we're having to pay more insurance premiums in a larger corporation. So it just doesn't have There's just not It was not a level playing field. They're so
Lynn: 1:1:49
No parody there
Karen: 1:1:50
no so health insurance if people could just have a non emotional, logical discussion about health insurance. You can come with a much better solution that would enable employers as well as employees. So that's one thing that I fervently wish will come out of the situation.
Chris: 1:2:09
I would like, and I don't know if it's gonna happen or not, but you know, my background, I I've I spent some time in government service and have a real appreciation for the role that a well run government, whether it's locally or on a national level, And that's not politicians, right? That's the fundamental administrators that do a heck of a lot of stuff To keep our society running, what I would like is coming out of this is a return of respect and appreciation for the role of small G government out there. Because I think we've for decades we relatively had it so well and so easy and so affluent That is afforded us the luxury of saying, Oh, we don't need government in our lives and and I can do fine on my own and I, you know, I just want to be self sufficient. Well, it's easy to say that in good times, and I'm hopeful that we'll have a better appreciation and respect and and be willing to financially support, a broader based government that can do some things like health care and infrastructure and that we don't, you know, make pariahs of people that were there and that we can allow some of our best leaders to be in government and military. That's one of my hopes.
Lynn: 1:3:42
Yeah, it would be really nice to be able to see us be able to attract really good people into those kind of rolls again. I think we punish people brutally for taking public service roles, and you just isn't gonna attract people who are not willing to put up with that crap.
Chris: 1:4:04
Its funny week we said this In 2008 and nine, the country kind of woke up and said, Wow, we were spending a lot of unproductive energy and capital in just making capital. and we have lots of hedge funds and investment bankers, and everybody was making mortgages. And we said, Boy, we need to have more people They're making things and fixing bridges, boy, maybe 2008 to 10 will be an opportunity for us to get back into government sponsored work projects and true things that are gonna be shovel ready and build things. And that lasted about a year and 1/2. And guess what? We went right back into venture capital and hedge funds and private equity and all that, and it only grew for a decade and yeah, to your point, I would like to see some of the, you know, smartest people around yet adequately compensated to do more noble passions than just like, Hey, I go over here and work for a hedge fund and make oodles of money and and further, you know, be exacerbate that wealth divide. I'm hopeful that this will be a big enough shock to change that. But I you know, I don't know. It wasn't in 2008.
Lynn: 1:5:32
Well, you know, we had a very long recovery, and I know for several years I was probably way early on this to my own detriment. But I know how the cycles go. It's just like a wave, you know, having been a banker. I know things go up when they go down, they go up and they go down. And I kept looking, say, And I said this many times to Russ. I said, When it goes down, it's gonna go down. Really? If we thought 2008 was bad, just wait till you see what's coming. Because a lot of this is artificially propped up and you know, it's that hedge fund churning game as opposed to something real, and I couldn't have envisioned it being this, but I did know we were, you know, in the middle of a really, really big unreal bubble. And, so it's gonna be really interesting to see if we can get back to the more tangible I owe much. I did it had to do a road trip to Texas a couple of weeks ago and the quality of the roads. I felt like I was in the zombie apocalypse, right? I was because all this was coming. There was a part of me as I was driving. I mean, we had wayz on and it would say, like pothole on the road. We finally had to just turn it off. He's like, Yeah, there's panel everywhere on. And as I was driving, I was thinking, I wonder if this is like the last of this civilization before, because where that you're gonna get the money to fix these highways with all this stuff going on. So it's sort of I look at it back and I can put on my bleak my very Bleak glasses, and I could put on you know, my more silver lining glasses and see it both ways, and I'm just really hoping in trusting that the human, the humans that are making up this world that we will be able to make something great out of it. We're gonna Most of us are going to survive. The question is, are we gonna be better like you said Karen, And I'm very hopeful for that.
Karen: 1:7:24
I love I love history. I love reading. I just love studying past civilizations and and you know what's come before us. And I think it's so fascinating how people today think that, like this is the first time that humanity has achieved this level of sophistication and accomplishments, and that's like people our country is less than 300 years old, like we are infants, We are babies. There have been great civilizations that have coming on before us, and it's just humorous. It's just you see here the best, you think you're amazing. And so then you stop paying attention to the things that really makes you amazing. And so you left inside so things like infrastructure, it wouldn't be that hard for things to just slide away if we don't, if we don't keep our eye on the ball and keep focusing on the underlying structure that we need to be an effective efficient, productive society. It doesn't. It doesn't take much to Just lose it all.
Lynn: 1:8:36
It's gone. You know, we bought the the old Girl Scout camp. Y'all have been there many times over behind Ingles in, lake Lure, and Russ and I were just talking this morning about a couple of places where we haven't been maintaining things. Nature takes it back like that. Yes, that's stunning. How fast, He said under one of the one of the sheds, There's like a tree that's huge. I don't even know how to treat can grow this big this fast. That's because that's what nature does, you know, It just takes it back. And, and that that, like that arc of history. Karen, we are such a young nation. And frankly, modern society is such a small percentage of how humans have lived on this Earth. You know, having cars, having electricity, having indoor plumbing, having you know, airplanes, things like that. This is in the scheme of things, just a tiny blink that we have these things. So in this moment will pass just like all the rest of them. So, you know, I'm leaving this conversation with, you know, both a sober experience of what it really means to be a business owner right now. And also a lot of hope, because if anybody can figure it out, it's you guys. So no, really. I really appreciate you sharing this and just getting the chance to visit with you. Can you tell people how to find you? Because I bet you have some new instagram and Facebook followers after this, especially for my listeners in the Charlotte, greater Charlotte area who might want to eventually be able to bring their babies to you.
Karen: 1:10:15
Oh, great. Well, we're pamperedpetsinn.com. Okay, we are on Facebook and Instagram as well.
Lynn: 1:10:25
under the same name.
Karen: 1:10:26
Exactly. Yeah. And pamperedpetsinn it. All
Lynn: 1:10:31
right,
Chris: 1:10:32
look, we're located Mooresville, which is a northern suburb of Charlotte. And the nice things about being in a little bit on the city is we've got over two acres and we've got 25,000 square feet of turfed outdoor luxury play yards and saltwater pool sunshades. Its very near Lake Norman. Andi really can offer a resort experience for pets., and It's hard to describe that it's best viewed in pictures and video. And so at our website and our social platforms, we've got some great video that really shows you what. What a cool place we have and our staff is in there. They love what they do and tells. That's how you provide great service to pets.
Lynn: 1:11:26
Well, you know, it's funny because just having gone on this trip that I was driving across Texas and having to, you know, go back and forth one of the things that when I had to board my dog, we have a really nice place down the road. It's kind of out of the country, and when I left her First of all, she was happy. You going to the dogs will tell you if their happy
Karen: 1:11:48
happens. You
Lynn: 1:11:49
and the second thing Waas. When I left, I did not think about her again because what he basically was selling. And I think this is what you also it's peace of mind, right? I don't have to worry about my dog while I'm gone, and I've been on the other end of phone calls with friends who got these frantic phone calls because their dog or cat was in care with somebody and it ruin their vacation. It run their work. It run whatever the situation was, because they're they're animal wasn't in good hands. It's if if anybody takes anything away from this conversation, it's, you know, when you put your your pet in good hands and the quality is there and the processes of their to, make sure your pet is cared for. That's worth its weight in gold.
Chris: 1:12:34
It is, it's It's entirely a trust based business and everything. Everything that we do and everything that we teach and train our staff is all. There's 1000 tiny things that all add up to whether that customer's gonna trust you or not. And it starts with, you know, is the long mode. And is the eyes everything swept? And what is the lobby smell like? And what is your uniforms Look like? All those little things add up to when somebody says, You know what? If they take care to this level of detail, then I trust that my pets in good hands and that's what we strive for and
Karen: 1:13:15
a lot of transparency, too. So if there is an issue will tell the parents. Yeah, If we make a mistake, we'll tell the parents because we're like it is their right to know what happened to the pet while the pet was in our care. , if they want to call any time they want to call and get an update, they can call us and will we'll call in the back and the last the handlers to tell us how the how their pup did during playgroup and whether the eight and that will give them. So they didn't call it anytime and get an update. And, , yeah, I'm just trying to be try to treat people the way that we would want to be treated if we
Chris: 1:13:53
were. Yes, well, when you tell the truth, that builds trust.
Lynn: 1:13:57
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's that's really awesome. And it's just, you know, that all of that has a lot to do with how you guys are are navigating to this situation. So I really appreciate you taking the time to share all this with my listeners today. And you know, this is a much bigger conversation than just you know, this moment, because really y'all in a way of creating a playbook for adversity. And that's you know, I think that's worth it for whether it's this kind of adversity or something else that we don't even know yet.
Chris: 1:14:33
Yeah, well, a week from now, two weeks from now, we may have to throw that label on, create a new one. But But we do that
Lynn: 1:14:41
well and say That's what I mean. You talk about resetting goals. You talked about paying attention daily to and listening to what's going on and and responding to that rather than a fixed picture. And I believe that adaptability is a key part of sort of creating this playbook for adversity. I fully expect you're gonna be changing it as you go. And the fact that you are able to change it is what makes it work. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Good.
Chris: 1:15:09
It was good talking to you. You too.
Lynn: 1:15:11
It was great. I'm gonna, uh We're gonna close out right here, but stay on for a second, cause we'll talk after. Okay, goodbye everybody Thank you for listening to the creative spirits unleashed podcast. I started this podcast because I was having these great conversations and I wanted to share them with others. I'm always learning in these conversations, and I wanted to share that kind of learning with you. Now, what I need to hear from you is what you want more of and what you want less off. I really want these podcasts to be a value for the listeners. Also, if you happen to know someone who you think might love them, please share the podcast. And, of course, subscribe and write it on the different Ap that you're using, because that's how others will find it. Now, I hope you go and do something very fun today.
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