Unstoppable & Unaccompanied: The Power of the Solo Ride

Jerry Kopack [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Bike Life, a podcast from the Warmshowers Foundation. Here we celebrate our global community of touring cyclists and hosts who make life on the road unforgettable. Through stories, insights, and shared experiences, we explore the connections that fuel every journey. Whether you're pedaling across countries or welcoming travelers into your home, you're part of a movement rooted in generosity and adventure. Discover more and join the community at warmshowers.org. Now let's hit the road together. Hey everyone, this is Jerry Kopeck, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the Rocky Mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. Welcome to part 2 of our International Women's Month panel series.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:49]:
In the first episode, we talked about taking the leap, overcoming fear, and finding the courage to start. Today we're diving deeper into what happens after you say yes, how solo travel transforms you, builds confidence, and connects you to community in powerful and unexpected ways. If you ever wondered not just how to start, but who you might become along the way, then settle in because this conversation's for you. Ladies, I am so grateful to have you here today. Let's start by going around. Tell us who you are, where you're from, and maybe give us the short story of your solo bike touring experience. Jessica, let's start with you.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:01:28]:
Sure, I'm Jess. I live in the US in Kentucky, and, um, I have been bike touring— let's see, my first was in Europe at 15 years old, and since then I've taken some pretty shorter rides, you know, a week or two, um, in different countries or around the US. Um, but my biggest rides were two solo unsupported across the United States, one in 2013 at 38 years old and one this past summer at 50 years old.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:57]:
Yes. Kat, what about you?

Cat Lau [00:02:01]:
Hi, my name is Kat. I'm based in Montreal in Canada. And oh gosh, I think cycle touring started like 10 years ago for me. I first did my tour with my partner out in, uh, the Rockies. And then from then on, I just got this itch to really do one on my own. So in 2022, I did my first solo tour around the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton in Nova Scotia. So that was pretty small, about 300 kilometers. And then that was really kind of a setup to my bigger tour, which was along the Pacific coast.

Cat Lau [00:02:38]:
I biked from Vancouver to San Diego in 2024. And from there, it's just, you know, it's— it just ignited something for me to continue moving and traveling this way. Way as a part of my life.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:52]:
Yeah. And Emma?

Emma Karslake [00:02:55]:
Um, I'm Emma. I live in London at the moment, uh, but I've moved around quite a lot. I grew up in France. I'm about to move to Spain, um, and I've had this itch to just be everywhere at the same time for a while. My first bike trip was 8, 9 years ago, probably. Um, my first bike trip that was over 2 days was a 6-month bike trip through South America, um, and that sort of started everything. I've multiplied the bikes and the routes since. I've done another 6 months.

Emma Karslake [00:03:26]:
I would like to do a year, that's my next one. I've done lots of 1-month-long, um, bits since, um, most years because I'm now— I'm a freelancer, so I have a lot of my own time, very flexible. So I started touring with friends, um, and now I do a lot on my own. I still like to go with friends when I can.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:45]:
I love that. All right, ladies, so thank you for sharing that. And now that we know a little bit about your story, let's talk about what it's done for you. So Emma, let's stay with you. When you look back, what has solo bike travel given you that maybe you didn't expect?

Emma Karslake [00:04:00]:
I think it's kind of hard to say as well because I started when I was 23, um, now 32, so I've obviously grown as a person, uh, but I think I think cycle touring has had a role in that. It's definitely built my confidence, um, and I would say the biggest thing is it's built my, my confidence in knowing that things will turn out fine, because that's something you sort of have to have or develop when you travel. And it's definitely translated into my everyday life. Um, I'm not saying that I don't stress out, but I always have the idea at the back of my mind that things are always fine in the end. Um, yeah, I think that's the main thing I took away.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:41]:
I love that. Was there a moment, uh, early on in touring when you realized that maybe you weren't the pers— the same person when you started that trip?

Emma Karslake [00:04:50]:
Um, yeah, I think when I stopped planning as much and when I started wanting to not plan my route carefully and just go and see, or, you know, when I started wanting more advice from locals on where to go next instead of planning everything. Um, because I found that you can have a plan A and a plan B and a plan C, and that, that thing doesn't happen, and you have to have a completely different plan that you come up with on the spot. So sometimes there's not that much point in planning everything. Um, so it's sort of changed my approach, and then I thought, if I'm that flexible, I can, I can do what I want, it'll be fine.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:28]:
I love that. Jess, uh, what are your thoughts?

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:05:33]:
Yeah, Emma, you summed it up so well. I think things you learn about yourself, flexibility, adaptability. I, you know, when you're in a situation that might seem really hard or stressful, I always ask, am I safe? Right? And if I am, then okay, I can figure it out, right? Like, I'm not MacGyver, but I can figure this out. Like, I have skills. There might be humans around, there might not be. But, you know, if I'm safe and in a safe place, everything will be okay. And that's very different than how we live in a life where we have a lot of access to things. So I think that's one.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:06:14]:
Emma, you were talking about how you've moved around a lot. I consider myself very nomadic, even though I've based myself in places for long periods of time. I travel a lot for work and I enjoy it, and I sometimes get a little stir crazy when I'm somewhere for too long. And I think that Being someone who is a little bit nomadic and really loves to experience change and new things is a piece of this where if you weren't like that and you really like routine, it might not be the best for you. I mean, that's just the reality because you sleep in a different place every night. There's different sounds every night. And, you know, that's part of the adventure and the excitement, but it's not for everyone.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:54]:
Interesting. Yeah, that's a good point about being nomadic and liking that change every day because you never know where you're going to sleep. I mean, you're your only job is just to sort of get to that next place every day.

Emma Karslake [00:07:06]:
Yeah, I would just add, I have actually met people who had an incredible routine while cycle touring, so they were okay with sleeping in a different place every day. But, um, there's this Australian man who was probably in his early 70s, and he had lunch at 12 every day. So wherever he was, he would stop on the side of the main road, take out his cheese and bread, and have lunch at 12. So in a way, it can be compatible.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:30]:
Yeah, and I think that's a great point, Emma, because I think in that sort of daily chaos of not knowing where you're going to be, it is sometimes helpful to have those routines, right? Even if it's just as simple as lunch or where do you store certain items in your gear, in your panniers, in your frame bag. Jess, was there a moment when you just sort of flipped the switch and you thought like, wow, something happened and I am different? And this has changed me?

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:07:57]:
You know, both of the long trips that I've taken that have been 90 days or so, you know, you talked about transformation at one point when we were kind of talking and planning for this. And both of those trips, interestingly for me, were after breakups. One was after a divorce, and it wasn't a very traumatic divorce. He and I are really good friends still. And then the other this past year was after a 9-year relationship. And it's not that I like ended these relationships with men and thought, I'm going on a bike trip. But the opportunities were there. And so I think that partway through, probably both of them, especially the first one, I started to feel just empowered.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:08:37]:
And I had traveled with him many times, but I hadn't really traveled that long alone in my life. I had been an exchange student when I was a kid. So I've had some experiences, but never really alone. And so I think just you know, maybe a month in thinking, I can do this, you know, I can build adventure on my own and actually really enjoy it. And there's something really empowering about it. But a specific moment, I don't know that I can remember specifically, but it was just a feeling.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:05]:
Got it. Kat, I see you nodding and smiling. Tell me your thoughts on this.

Cat Lau [00:09:10]:
Yeah, well, I really resonate with what both Jess and Emma have said. I think what I'll add is just I think breaking the gender stereotype of being, you know, this fragile woman is something that comes to mind. I mean, I'm the eldest in my family of immigrant parents, and there is this expectation really to be the caretaker, to be, you know, setting the example. And so I've always put people first before me. And so what cycle touring has really done is given time for a lot of that self-discovery and bringing back that connection to myself, which I've often neglected because I'm so often putting people before me. And so it was really nice to be able to like just reflect on the things that I've accomplished or the challenges that I'm going through. It's given me time to do a lot of that processing, which I think I wasn't doing because again, putting people before myself.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:12]:
Yeah, really great points. So same question, Kat, staying with you. Was there a moment through any of your tours that you just felt a shift inside of you that maybe you had changed or you weren't the same person when you first started out?

Cat Lau [00:10:28]:
Yeah, that's a good question. I think, like Jess, I can't pinpoint like one particular moment, but I think whenever I do tough climbs, like just after a really long day of like climbing up a hill and you get to the top, it's just so— like I'm in disbelief that I've actually, you know, done what I've done. And so much of cycle touring, I think, is like taking everything like step by step, day by day, and focusing on that, as opposed to, I think, thinking of just the sheer amount of distance that you have to cover, right? And I think that can be very daunting. And so when we're, you know, just taking things step by step and focusing day to day, I find those are like little victories to me. And at the end of the day, when you get to the destination, it's just like, wow, I can't believe I did that.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:20]:
Yeah. Do you find that calming, just that taking little bites every day and kind of slowing things down?

Cat Lau [00:11:27]:
Absolutely. 100%.

Emma Karslake [00:11:29]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:30]:
Now, I'm not sure if all of you have traveled in groups or not throughout your travels, but I've found that when you travel in a group or with a partner, you're essentially a unit. But when you travel solo, you really open yourself up to, to meeting people along the way. And Emma, was there a moment when someone you met changed the direction of your trip or maybe changed you?

Emma Karslake [00:11:54]:
Uh, when I was traveling solo?

Jerry Kopack [00:11:55]:
Yeah.

Emma Karslake [00:11:58]:
I, I honestly can't think of, of a particular person. I definitely know for sure that I meet more new people when I'm on my own. Um, and I think there are lots, lots of people travel on their own and they're just the type of people who end up invited for coffee wherever. This doesn't happen to me when I'm on foot or just, you know, exploring a new city. But I found that having a bike with you just starts up interactions. Either you need something from someone or they just come up to you because they're intrigued. So it's just the sheer number of people I've met or who've invited me in or who've just struck up a conversation. I really see the difference when I'm on my own and I love it because I also get lonelier when I'm on my own.

Emma Karslake [00:12:41]:
So I also look forward to those little interactions.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:44]:
Ah, good point. Uh, Cat, what are your thoughts?

Cat Lau [00:12:50]:
Yeah, definitely a lot of interesting characters that you meet along the way. One that comes to mind is, um, somewhere in Oregon where I was stopping, and there was a man whose electric bike— he was on a tour as well— and his electric bike had broken down, and all he wanted was, um, just a couple of beers and coffee. And he was an older gentleman, so he was having trouble getting around and he couldn't walk very far. And so I went into town and I picked up some beers and coffee from him and he was super grateful. And he told me that he was a soap maker as well. So he took down my address and everything and he was like, I'm so thankful. Nobody was willing to help me and you were. And He actually sent me soap, which was really funny.

Cat Lau [00:13:41]:
I received the soap like a couple months later. And so, I don't know, little things like that are just really fun to remember.

Jerry Kopack [00:13:48]:
Do you, do you think you would be as open to meeting people if you were in a group setting with a couple friends or a partner?

Cat Lau [00:13:56]:
Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. I think when you're alone, um, there's more motiv— I don't know, for me, there's more motivation for me to like go and step out of my comfort zone and meet new people and talk to people, whereas If I'm traveling with friends, then I'm, you know, traveling with them and we're kind of together. And so maybe not as adventurous to meet new people.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:17]:
Yeah. And Jess, what do you think?

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:14:20]:
Yeah, I would agree with that. You know, you're more likely to chat with people when you're alone just for some human connection. And I think that's a big piece of this last trip for me was kind of that connection with people. A time that comes to mind is a little bit different. I had met a group of people that were, riding with a group for charity, and it was in 2013. And I started to ride with them for a few days, and I was realizing that this group of, of people were starting to get kind of competitive around where they were, when they were getting to their next place, and what time people were waking up, and kind of including me in that. And I started to realize after actually about 3 or 4 days that as much as it was nice to kind of meet new people and ride with this group, I was feeling like my trip wasn't becoming my trip. And I wanted to keep it that way.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:15:12]:
And I think that's something that I don't know if you two have learned, but like, set up the gear that works for you. Ride the bike that works for you. Like, there's definitely— I mean, I don't feel a lot of pressure in what I should wear and what I should do and how— because I've done it. But I think you could get pulled into that. And if you don't want to wake up at 5:00 AM and ride and you want to sleep till 11:00, do that, you know, like create your own ride. And I think when you start to feel pressure, um, where I did on that trip, it actually— I, I let them go. I let them go ahead. I think I did a layover day somewhere.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:49]:
Yeah. Uh, Emma, I see you smiling. Have you come across people that you picked up along the way, maybe ridden with them for a little ways, or have you always just tried to, to keep it solo when you're on your own ride?

Emma Karslake [00:16:00]:
Yeah, I'm actually at a funny point because I started riding with people or touring with people, um, and then it was a feel for me when I then started touring on my own. I was intimidating at the start, then I started really liking it. I still like it, but more and more, every solo tour I do now, I think, well, it would be nice to have a pal. I would like to do another long tour with a pal. And then I pick up someone on the road. Like this summer, I was in, in Canada, in Quebec, and there was a woman who was staying at the same place I was staying, and she had her bike with her. She borrowed panniers, and we cycled together for about 4 days. And I was so happy to be with her.

Emma Karslake [00:16:40]:
And because you always think, oh, you'll pick up people on the way, it doesn't actually happen that often unless you're on a really busy, um, touring route. So I was really happy and she was really lovely, but she was also much slower and she was a very relaxed person who didn't have a watch. She didn't look at how many kilometers we'd done, so she sometimes had very unrealistic expectations of where we would land that day. So I sort of had to manage the group, um, and I thought it was very difficult because it was my trip, but I also had to carry another person. I didn't want to rush her because there's no reason why she would have to go faster. Um, so I was sort of stuck between loving having this company, which was very good company, but at the same time I had to modify my whole day, and it, it is sometimes hard to manage.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:31]:
Yeah, good points. How long did you stay with her before you sort of peeled off 5 days. Okay.

Emma Karslake [00:17:39]:
And we, we knew where we were going to split anyway. Um, and yeah, I would do it again, but I would not travel with her for a whole month. I was very happy with the 5 days.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:50]:
Yeah, it's, it's a balancing act, right, to have that company, that person to discuss things with, maybe to route plan with. But if your schedules aren't aligned, if your fitness isn't aligned, if your expectations aren't aligned, then it can be a little bit stressful, right? Yeah. Yeah. So back to you, Jess. You had mentioned that you had cycled with a group and maybe it felt like they were going at a faster tempo or just had different routines because maybe you want to wake up late or maybe you want to stop and have coffee. So I can understand how that would be maybe stressful. Maybe you can sort of take away from your experience, right?

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:18:25]:
Yeah, I think it's just that, wait, wait, wait, this is my trip. So I'm going to do what is best for me at this time. And, and Kat, you mentioned something that actually made me tear up at the beginning, which was the kind of caretaker piece. And I think that's something that I am starting to uncover in some of my kind of writing about bike touring and what it does for me. There's, there's a feeling that I have on it and I can't describe it when I'm out there. And I might not ever be able to kind of pinpoint how it feels to be doing a trip like this. But I think one thing I have come to is that you only have to take care of yourself. And there is just something very different about that versus people every day, you know, whatever that means, whether you have children or you don't have children or you live with someone or you don't.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:19:17]:
You know, as women, we are expected to do caretaking. Not everyone does, but there is that expectation. And I had just helped raise 3 children, kind of plus a bonus daughter, absolutely loved it. And there was a lot of caretaking involved. And so to be on this trip and the only person you need to worry about is yourself is really empowering. And so if you do partner with someone or meet someone on the trip, it has to be a really good fit or else you do feel kind of empowered to say, you know what, I'm gonna stay back or I'm gonna do something different. And I think that's fine. I haven't met anyone that doesn't get that.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:59]:
And I love how you use the word empowering because I think that's such a critical, critical concept and mindset. Cat, you want to continue on with that a little bit?

Cat Lau [00:20:09]:
Yeah, I mean, it's a very liberating experience, I think, to do a big tour. And I think for me, I'd always kind of play this like bike tag with folks. Like, you know, some people would be really fast,, and then they'd slow down, and so I'd keep passing them, and we were on the same route, and that'd be kind of fun because, you know, I ride with them a little bit and then we part ways, and I felt like that was a good balance. I had this one point where, um, we all had to kind of detour because there was a big landslide, like part of the roads were closed, and so we were kind of going the same route but again doing it at our own pace. And it was fun meeting other people that were doing the trip solo as well. So if some folks left really early in the morning, and then I left maybe like a little bit later, but we would meet at the same place and camp out and have dinner. So I think that was really nice to be able to move, um, in your own rhythm, but then also watch other people do that and just respecting that. So I thought that was really lovely.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:12]:
Yeah, what a great compromise, because you're still getting the benefit of being part of a group, but you're getting to have your own experience and your own time, as you said, your own rhythms. What a What a really great way to look at it. Today's episode is brought to you by BikeFlights.com. BikeFlights delivers everything you need to ship your bike. Whether you're riding a bucket list tour, selling your bike online, or moving across the country, BikeFlights' easy-to-pack bike boxes, carbon-neutral shipping, and pickup-to-delivery monitoring make it simple and save you up to 40%. Visit BikeFlights.com/WarmShowers today to book a shipment. Now back to the show. I know that we have talked about this a fair bit, but I kind of want to dig a little bit deeper into this.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:02]:
So Emma, we'll start with you. So after all the hard days, and I know that people sometimes think that they glorify bike touring like it's all rainbows and unicorns and every day is easy. And ladies, you know that it's not. So there's hard days, there's dark days, but after all those hard days, what keeps you coming back? Like, what do you love most about riding solo?

Emma Karslake [00:22:25]:
I think, first of all, there's very rarely a day that is terrible from beginning to the end. It often— if you start with a bad day, by, by the end of the day, you'll have met one person who was nice, you'll have seen some one thing that was great, and that's usually enough to remind me why I'm doing it. And, you know, every day is so different. I think it's quite easy with cycle touring to say tomorrow's another day. And the more you do it, the more sort of the bigger a bank of good memories you have. So you know that it will, it will be great even, even if yesterday wasn't the best day. And I think it's the same for when it's physically tough, right? If you, if you've been close to your limit a bunch of times, you know that your limit isn't here, it's actually here. So when you think you, you only have 10K left in you, you actually know that you have 40K left in you.

Emma Karslake [00:23:25]:
And for me, that's, that's reassuring because I know that even though I feel like I'm close to my limit, I have miles to go and I'll be fine.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:35]:
Yeah, and I love the, the— you mentioned the, uh, the bank of your experiences, the bank of your memories. I think that's really good because, as you said, the more you do this, the larger that bank grows and the more, the more resilience it gives to you. And talk about this, Emma, so when you're solo, there's not really anyone to rely on, right? So if you're in a group, it's like, okay, well, I've got this person to help bail me out. But when you're on your own, it's a different feeling, right?

Emma Karslake [00:24:01]:
Yeah. I've also— I've really come to know how my feelings sort of cycle around. Um, I, I get a little bit of anxiety before starting a trip. And then sometimes, sometimes the beginning of it is liberation, is straight up easy from the beginning. And sometimes I need a few days to get used to it. But then I feel this stress and I know that it's the stress of the beginning because I recognize it and I know that it's going to go away and it does. Um, so I think knowing yourself is also helpful. Yeah.

Emma Karslake [00:24:38]:
And again, the more you do it, the better you know yourself.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:42]:
Perfect. Kat, what do you think?

Cat Lau [00:24:46]:
I think what keeps me going is, again, just like going back to like the little things, like after a hard day, if it's like pouring rain and everything's wet, just having like a hot meal and just like appreciating those moments. Like, I'm alive, I'm in this beautiful forest. It's just like very humbling. And I know that in doing that, I'm kind of building this resilience, even though I might not feel it at the time. I know that it's better for me. Like, I'm, I'm toughing this out. And when you're out of that really tough moment, then it's like you really understand how far you came from or like just how tough that challenge was. And I think what Emma was saying, just like, No day is completely terrible all day.

Cat Lau [00:25:36]:
There are moments that lift you up, even if it's just a hot meal, even if it's just the sun coming out just for a little second or two. I think those are the moments that really build a lot of strength in us.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:49]:
Yeah, those little small victories, right? Like you said, the sun coming out after lashing rain for 6 straight hours or a hot meal. Just one little thing that sort of keeps you coming back, right? Jess, bring us home on that one.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:26:06]:
I think what resonates with me is if I'm having a hard day, I mean, I've definitely said, "This isn't fun," but I've never said, "I quit this," like while I'm in a tour, like touring. I've never said, "I quit, like I'm done," and then have to come around. That's never been my internal language. But there's definitely been days where I'll say, I'm not really having fun right now. But I agree that there are these moments. What I do say is, I chose this. I don't have to be here. And what a blessing to have the opportunity and the means to be able to see a community through this and for my body to work and be free of pain enough to be able to do something.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:26:49]:
I mean, That is something we should all feel really fortunate about. And so I think I just kind of shift it to that, that this is just, you know, a blessing. I also feel like in a very not narcissistic way, there is a part of me that falls in love with myself when I do this, that I'm proud of. And again, not in a narcissistic way, but in a— I can't— again, I can't explain it yet. I'm still working on that. But you spend a lot of time in your head and a lot of time alone. And if you aren't comfortable with yourself and truly, you know, love yourself, it would be really hard to be in your head all of that time. And so, you know, we're all on different journeys around that, but there's definitely something that's very kind of self-confident building around that and kind of this piece of, I gotta like myself enough to spend this much time alone on a bicycle.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:27:48]:
So there's something, you know, to be said about that as well.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:51]:
Yeah, I really love what you said there, Jess, because it really resonates with me, a lot of people who are listening too, because to your point, you are by yourself for hours and hours at a time, and it's easy to tune out if you need to, to put on headphones, listen to a podcast, listen to music. But wow, that for some can be the best therapy, right? So if you're working through something, you've got nothing but time to just work through things, work through your own stories. Like, what a really great point. Thank you. Uh, so I wanna, I wanna mix it up a little bit, ladies, and I wanna do something fun here. So maybe some rapid-fire quick travel hacks, questions, just kind of whatever comes to your mind. Keep it short, keep it brief, but, uh, yeah, whatever, whatever you think here. So let's, um, let's, let's stay with Jess.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:45]:
So I think we talked about this a little bit, but maybe we'll come back to it again here. One moment that maybe changed you forever through one of your tours.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:28:56]:
This past tour, I had a moment where the tornadoes and the heat was so bad, and it was Kansas and Nebraska, and it's very remote and very isolating and very lonely. I had to make a decision about the rest of my route. And Emma and Cat, I was raising money for a foundation that is associated with two professional soccer teams that works on ensuring youth have access to play soccer. And, um, so I was going to games along the way. So my route was kind of very specific in that way for both our NWSL women's team and our USL men's team. So I had to change route and kind of consider this, and changing route was one of the hardest things I ever had to do because I was raising money, and it was kind of public what my route was. People didn't know where I was on any given day for safety reasons, um, but I decided to not cycle through southern Colorado, Utah, Nevada in the middle of the summer, which was a really great idea. And I knew I wasn't going to do all of that, but instead, Kat, what I did— you'll appreciate this— is I drove from Colorado Springs with my gear up to Bellingham, and I did the Pacific Coast.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:30:09]:
I had to end in San Diego for the San Diego Wave game, um, in the summer, and For some reason, though, it felt almost like quitting to me to have to drive. And that's something, again, that we just put on ourselves, right? Is are we going to take a ride with someone? Are we going to take a ferry instead of riding all the— I mean, everyone has their own rules. But I would say, Jerry, that a moment that was just really hard for me— and you didn't ask about hard, but just kind of—

Emma Karslake [00:30:40]:
No.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:30:40]:
Changed it or was really— and I'm still working through it, which is really interesting. And, you know, everyone else is like, who cares? It's the same amount of mileage. No one cares, Jess. But for some reason, it— at the time, it, it was really hard. And, you know, one of the things also is I actually made calls to other women cyclists, touring cyclists that I know, and asked their advice in that moment. And they all had the same thing. Stay safe. The best decision is for you to reroute.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:31:10]:
You know, absolutely do what you need to do, but also listen to some of the things that I was concerned about. And that was really helpful. So that's just kind of one of the defining moments that really changed me and made me think, why am I— I'm okay with change. Why is this so challenging for me?

Jerry Kopack [00:31:28]:
So you felt like you needed maybe that permission or that confirmation that, hey, this is okay.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:31:34]:
Yes, and I had to get it from like other women, like touring cyclists, because there were plenty of people and I was like, yeah, yeah, they don't know what they're talking about. But when I called Rhonda and she, she was on the Trans Am at the time, she actually said, it is a hot summer and Jess, it's okay.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:52]:
Yeah, and I live in that part of the, the country and I can concur, traveling through that part of the, the country in that time of the year, it's, it's hard, it's, it's, it's hot for sure. Uh, Kat, what about you?

Cat Lau [00:32:06]:
Yeah, I really resonate with that, Jess. Um, kind of one of the— my first solo tour on the Cabot Trail, it was 2022, um, and I was in Nova Scotia visiting a friend of mine. It was also my birthday month, so I was there celebrating, and just a few days in, I got COVID, um, the first time, and it was really bad, and there was so much self-doubt, um, and like, can I even do this Do I have to cancel all my plans? And at that point I was like, you know, there's something about accepting the reality of what's happening. Like my body is not 100%. Like obviously I cannot ride while I'm coughing and just very, very weak. And so my best friend was really just such a champion and she was like, we're going to get through this. We postponed the ride like a week or two later and just focused on, you know, getting better. And there was a point when I thought, well, I might not be able to ride.

Cat Lau [00:33:11]:
And that was a thing kind of earth-shattering for me because I really wanted to do this ride. But I did end up doing it. And I remember that first day just telling myself, like, I just want to get to that first checkpoint and see how I feel. And if I really feel terrible, that's okay because, you know, my body's not in not, you know, the, the healthiest state right now. And that's completely okay given the circumstances. And I don't know what happened, but I think I was like healing along the way during this touring. And, you know, the second day it got better. And even though I was like going up hills, it was just— it was really empowering to kind of watch my body go from like basically not being able to do anything and being bedridden to being able to complete this tour.

Cat Lau [00:33:59]:
And so that was really life-changing for me to really see that, like, if I put my mind to it and if I also understand the circumstances, I can change and adapt and, um, make it happen.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:11]:
Yeah. So it probably felt amazing as you continued to progress in your health recovery that, okay, every day is a little bit stronger, right? Gave you a little bit more confidence to keep going. Yeah. Uh, Emma, what about you? Was there a moment in one of your tours that really changed you in a profound way?

Emma Karslake [00:34:30]:
I think it's, um, on my second 6-month tour. I was traveling with my boyfriend and he had to go home for a couple of weeks, so I did 2 weeks on my own before reuniting. And that was the first time I did more than 1 or 2 nights on my own. Um, and so we were wild camping, so, and we had really heavy, heavy bikes, heavily laden, so we would often have to sort of drag them through the forest in places that weren't really cyclable, and it was difficult. You had to lift them.. And I kind of, when we had to do that, I often whined or grunted a bit, you know, oh, this is difficult. And then the first day I camped on my own and I had to do the same thing, I just, this is when I noticed that I used to whine. There's total silence.

Emma Karslake [00:35:19]:
I was like, oh, I'm just dragging my bike now. And I thought, well, I guess I have no one to whine to, and I know no one's going to tap me on the shoulder if I do well or not well. So I just get, get on with it. So I think it's actually made me less whiny in general in life because I know it's not going to change anything. But to what Jess was saying as well, I think, yeah, you kind of have to be your own friend when you're on your own. And just like whining doesn't serve any purpose because there's no one there to comfort you, sometimes you have to actively comfort yourself and tell yourself, you know, treat yourself. Are you tired? If you're tired, just stop instead of being stuck in your own head. So I think I've started sort of communicating better with myself instead of having tunnel vision.

Emma Karslake [00:36:10]:
Yeah, and it's definitely something that I try to bring to my everyday life.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:14]:
I love that.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:36:15]:
And so can I say something related to that?

Cat Lau [00:36:18]:
Yeah, Jess.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:36:18]:
I think what that comes down to is, number one, patience is a big piece of bike touring, but also giving yourself permission to do something. And that's what Emma was just talking about, right? Like giving yourself permission to change route, giving yourself permission to push farther, giving yourself permission to, you know, stop when you need to stop. As women, we don't always do that because there's also a lot of like pressures. And so I think it's great to say, you know, I'm— and I'm going to be okay with it. I'm going to be okay with this. I'm going to be okay that I'm changing route. I'm going to be okay that I'm stopping early today.

Emma Karslake [00:36:53]:
It's okay. Yeah, I think— sorry, um, one thing that I've started doing as well is asking myself, if, if a close friend was telling you this story, would you judge them for it? And the answer is always no. Like, yes, it's fine to stop, and literally no one cares.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:12]:
I, I love that, Emma. Were you gonna chime in and say something too, Kat?

Cat Lau [00:37:16]:
Yeah, I was going to say something when you brought up like the grunts and just like being vocal. Um, I always find it like very liberating to be able to do it, just like screaming and just like crying and like, that's fine, no one's hearing me. But it was just like, I loved being able to have that release. So that's what came up for me.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:35]:
I love that. Kind of on the same thread that you ladies are talking about right now, let's talk about any lessons or like, is there one lesson that you've learned along the way that you'll carry with you that's impacted not just your travels, but maybe also just your life? And Emma, maybe it's just less whining.

Emma Karslake [00:37:51]:
I don't know. Um, I think for me it's how diverse people are, and not just, not just culturally, but everyone lives their life in a different way. And when you're a bike tourer, you end up entering people's homes a whole lot, especially if you wild camp, or, you know, you get invited for coffee or whatever. And you— it's easy when I go home to London, to have this impression that everyone has a desk job, everyone has this as an ambition. And then the more I travel, the more the different possibilities multiply. And I think it makes me much more flexible and less stressed about what I should do or how one should live their life.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:37]:
Yeah, I love that. And Jess, your thoughts?

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:38:41]:
I think that, I mean, we talked, touched about it a little bit, I was very emboldened this trip to write some blog posts about— I'm not single now, I actually met someone after the trip, but about embracing singleness and that it's not a waiting room. And I think as women and as a 50-year-old woman, there's been a lot of, are you with someone, do you have children, and my whole life. And I'm childfree by choice. I've helped raise children, but I'm childfree by choice. And just a lot of pressures. And it, it's a bummer that it took me till my late 40s or 50s to say no, You know, that was the best decision for me. And the times that I've been single have been so amazing for me and embracing that. I also wrote a lot about body confidence, which I've had for most of my life, but I do work in a field where we do a lot of work around youth body confidence.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:39:33]:
And a lot of girls and women are not active because they don't feel good in their physical body. And that's a problem. And one thing I get out of this is not necessarily more body confidence, but being proud of my body, you know, and to say, I just did that, like, good job, you know. And I think as women, that's not— except has not been acceptable. It's getting more acceptable. And we're seeing more women athletes, you know, etc. But society hasn't told us to be strong. When I was growing up, it was to be thin.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:40:12]:
That was the appearance ideal. And so to have The quads that I have, I'm really proud of my quads. I'm really proud of my legs. But it took me a long time because the boys in middle school made fun of them. And so some of the lessons I've learned have been very personal instead of kind of, you know, of just embracing. I am so fortunate to have a mind that feels strong and resilient enough to do this and a body that can actually physically do this. And that is just something I want to embrace every day, is to be proud of my physical body.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:51]:
Wow, I love that. That, that gives me goosebumps. So thank you for sharing that. Um, Kat, what are your thoughts on, uh, something that's— something that you're— a lesson you've taken away from this experience?

Cat Lau [00:41:03]:
I think just trusting myself a whole lot more. Um, you know, in my day-to-day, sometimes I find myself of like not speaking up, not communicating very well, and always like doubting if I can do something. But when I'm cycle touring on my own, I mean, I'm the only person there and I have to be the one to make those decisions. And you're almost forced to kind of trust yourself and good things happen. And when they do, I think it gives you this confidence and this feeling of empowerment of being able to go out there., and, and do things. And so I think that's the biggest thing that, that I've learned, and I carry it now through like my day-to-day and being able to trust the decisions I'm making, um, for things that are not, you know, cycle touring related. So I think that's, that's definitely a big lesson for me.

Jerry Kopack [00:41:55]:
God, I love that. You ladies, those are all amazing, amazing lessons to share with, with all our listeners. Um, I want to wrap things up and go even a little bit deeper. And so, Emma, we'll just— we'll start with you. So one last reflection of each of you ladies. If you could go back and speak to the version of yourself before your first solo bike trip, what would you tell her?

Emma Karslake [00:42:25]:
It's a very good question because I think my first bike trip was an absolute success in that we were very stressed about planning. And overpacking and that we didn't overpack, which honestly is, is an achievement for a first long bike trip. Um, my first bike trip kind of exploded in the middle because we, it was 4 of us and one of us split, split away because we didn't get along. Um, so there was some hard times. In an ideal world, I would have cycled for 2 weeks with each, each one of those people before going on a 6-month trip. So I think that was my main takeaway. If you have that time, that opportunity before embarking on a long trip, do a mini trip with the person, and that's enough to see what tensions might arise. But again, if it was about, should I, would I do it again exactly the same, or would I rather not do it? I would do it the same and let it explode because it was still worth it.

Emma Karslake [00:43:25]:
But doing a test trip is really valuable.

Jerry Kopack [00:43:28]:
Okay. And Cat, what are you?

Cat Lau [00:43:32]:
What about you? I mean, I think I would tell myself that you got this, like whatever, whatever's ahead of you, you're prepared for it. And honestly, there's no shame in like how fast or how slow you're moving. I think that's the big thing. You know, I think Jess mentioned this before, you know, when you're riding with people and they're just speeding ahead and they've got like their goals that they want to hit, I think It's so important for you to just reflect and think about what you want out of this and that you're moving at a pace that is comfortable for you. And that's most important, not how fast you're moving and how much distance you're covering. And that can be really hard when you are, you know, when people pass you or when there are a lot of folks that are going faster than you. I don't think, you know, that should discourage you at all because, you know, you are at the end of the day doing it. So that, that's the big thing at the end.

Jerry Kopack [00:44:31]:
Yeah, Jess, I see you smile up there. Bring us home on this one.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:44:34]:
Oh, it all resonates. Um, the first trip, I mean, I would have told myself patience, and I think I mentioned this, but when you— the second trip I didn't, I didn't, I had tubeless tires, but the first trip I had, right? And so you change your tire quickly and then you get a pinch flat, you know, it's like if you just don't slow down and make sure there's no straps in the, you know, spokes, like, just slow down, you know, safety, like, stop and put more sunblock on. Like, it sounds so silly, but it's like all the little things, like, no, no, I can make it without getting more water. No, no, no, no, don't do that. Like, stop now or you're going to get dehydrated. And so, um, I think that, you know, I don't want to pull over again, but, you know, it's starting to rain, I probably should put rain gear on, you know. And so I think the patience piece really played a role in my second trip because I just knew to do that. Um, and what it helped with in the second trip is being 12 years older.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:45:33]:
This trip was a different trip because of my age. You know, I needed more sleep this trip, and I wasn't prepared for that because last trip, 6, 7 hours, I was fine. This trip, I needed like 8 to 10, you know. And so that played a role in just my day-to-day. I was having hot flashes on this trip, to be completely honest. You know, I also— this might be too much information— I had had a hysterectomy. I wasn't menstruating on this trip, which was actually lovely, you And as a woman, like, we need to talk about these things, right? And so there were changes, but I think there was patience. Like, I'm more tired and it's because I'm 50 now, you know? And you know what, in 10 years or in 2 years when I do this again, I'm going to be tired and my muscles are going to need more recovery.

Jessica Sarah Lawrence [00:46:17]:
So I think giving ourselves again permission and space to kind of continue to make it your trip and your trip that you know might be different on the next trip because of just just being, being older. So I think, or being in a different mind space, or having a different health issue, or whatever it might be. So I would say patience, just have that patience.

Jerry Kopack [00:46:40]:
I love that. Thank you so much. Um, I want to thank you, all you ladies, for joining me today. And as we wrap up this two-part series, I want to just again say thank you, not just for the miles that you've ridden, but also for the honesty, the vulnerability, and the courage that you've shared here. And if there's one thing I hope that the listeners take away from these conversations, it's this: solo bike travel isn't just reserved for the fearless, the ultra fit, or the professional adventurer. It's for ordinary people who decide to say yes. Yes to curiosity, yes to growth, and yes to seeing what they're capable of. And maybe that's the real story here.

Jerry Kopack [00:47:21]:
So start small, start local. Start imperfectly, but start. Because the road doesn't just change where you go, it changes who you become. And so if you're listening to these episodes and you're feeling that small pull, that whisper that says, "I wonder if I could," well, I hope these ladies gave you permission to go and find out. Thank you all for listening and for being part of the Bike Life community. Keep adventuring and keep exploring. Thanks for joining us on Bike Life. I'm Jerry Copac.

Jerry Kopack [00:47:50]:
And I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we enjoyed sharing it with you. Please leave us a rating and review or just tell your friends. This helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. To learn more or become part of this amazing community, visit us at warmshowers.org or follow us on Instagram at @warmshowers_org. If you'd like to be a guest to be a guest on the show or have a question you'd like us to explore, email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.