Finding Rhythm on the Road

Jerry Kopack [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Bike Life, a podcast from the Warmshowers Foundation. Here we celebrate our global community of touring cyclists and hosts who make life on the road unforgettable. Through stories, insights and shared experiences, we explore the connections that fuel every journey. Whether you're pedaling across countries or welcoming travelers into your home, you're part of a movement rooted in generosity and adventure. Discover more and join the community@warmshowers.org now let's hit the road together. Hey, everyone. This is Jerry Kopeck, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the Rocky Mountains in Breckenridge, Colorado. Today, I'm joined by Ines Hartmuth, a cyclist and musician who set off on a trumpet bike tour through southern France to break free from expectations and find her own rhythm in life, music and adventure.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:57]:
Ines, welcome to Bike Life.

Ines Hartmuth [00:00:59]:
Thank you.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:00]:
So this is a really interesting concept, a trumpet bike tour. Where did this idea come from about combining these two things?

Ines Hartmuth [00:01:09]:
For me, I live in Lyon, in a city in the middle of society, and for me, it's so difficult to be in the society and to find my own way. And at the moment I'm searching in the music, in the art, in my kind of being, my personality. I search for my own way. But I. I found out that I have to go out of. Of this, this concept of society. I have to be in nature. I have to do something which doesn't exist already.

Ines Hartmuth [00:01:48]:
Where aren't any ideas or there isn't a concept which tells me if you do it like this, it's good. And I started cycling before three, four years because it's practical. You can go everywhere and you're free. It's easy. You don't have to have any special skills.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:16]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:02:17]:
And. Yeah, I took my trumpet with me. It wasn't just a. I just connected the things I can do and I started. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:27]:
So that sort of freedom. Do you feel like that helped your creativity to sort of get away from society, as you mentioned?

Ines Hartmuth [00:02:34]:
Yeah, It's. It's difficult to explain, but it's just, It's in, in the city, I often feel very stuck. Sure. And I have. Yeah. Many ideas. I have to do this and that. There's.

Ines Hartmuth [00:02:57]:
There are many things to organize. I moved here one year ago and France is terrible with administrative administration work. And it's this year I was overwhelmed and many things organized. It was horrible. Really horrible. But also in the, in the normal daily life, there always things to. Yeah. To think about to organize.

Ines Hartmuth [00:03:24]:
And it's. It comes so easy to fall in this rhythm of just working.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:31]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:03:32]:
And doing things like, like you do it. Yeah. The. The whole day is. Is automatically working.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:43]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:03:43]:
And so you're always in. In the head, in the brain, and you're thinking about the things and there's no room to, to. If you go to the supermarket, it's not like I fear the supermarket, it's just a. I have to buy this, this, this, and then I go home, then I will cook something. It's. There's no feeling.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:04]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:04:04]:
And if I'm cycling, if I'm the tour, I, I really like not to organize anything. I just go and I, I let my heart decide. I have some thoughts, but then it's, It's. I decide from moment to moment. And there with this cycling and looking what is there and not expecting anything special, there's time for. For the thoughts to. To come, for the feelings. And you look, you.

Ines Hartmuth [00:04:37]:
You search, but you don't know what, what you search for. And so it's just like something is moving in you. And so automatically there are thoughts, there are ideas, their feelings, and you need to express this or I have the feeling I need to express it.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:58]:
Yeah. I read somewhere at some point that routine is the enemy of creativity. And it sounds like that's what you're saying, because when we get into these routines, we, we know how to go to work, we know how to pay bills, you know how to go grocery shopping, and you sort of get stuck in that routine and it sort of stifles creativity. So it sounds like getting out on the road where you're breaking free of that routine, everything is new every day. You're going to go to a new town, meet new people, see new places that really can enhance creativity. Right?

Ines Hartmuth [00:05:31]:
Yeah. This is. Routine is simple, it's comfortable. It's just the brain can lay back because you know what to do. Routine is nothing new for the brain. But if there's. Every day is a question, every next step is a question. And there are so many important things like drinking, eating, sleeping.

Ines Hartmuth [00:05:57]:
So it's all this. There also there's no safety. And this makes. Your brain is always like searching to survive or searching what. What comes next and what. What will happen, who will come, what will be on my way. And so you're always in a. In our mind of.

Ines Hartmuth [00:06:19]:
In. You're always interested for. For which. For what comes to you.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:24]:
Yeah. So. So tell me about your plan. Did you have a plan? Did you have a goal? Did you know where you're going to go?

Ines Hartmuth [00:06:33]:
Not really. I. I had 10 weeks. I knew I had 10 weeks. I thought nine, but actually it were 10. And I started Lyon, where I live. I knew I wanted to go to the south, but I. I didn't know why.

Ines Hartmuth [00:06:49]:
I just wanted to go south. Yeah. So I started to go south and there's Ardesh, Pila started there. There are many mountains. And this was a thing for me. I knew before I avoided the mountains. And this was. I actually, I said I'm not so motivated to the mountains, but actually I didn't thought that I'm capable of doing it.

Ines Hartmuth [00:07:23]:
And when I, when I understood this, I said, okay, now I will do the mountains. It was not the cleverest thing to start with that, but yeah, that's why I started with Ardesh and then I continued to go to the south. And no, I didn't have any plan.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:44]:
Okay. Were you hoping to just play by yourself in nature? Were you hoping to set up performances or shows?

Ines Hartmuth [00:07:53]:
I also there I didn't hope for anything. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I. I tried out a lot. I try at the beginning I was playing a lot. Lonely in the nature.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:09]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:08:09]:
And then I, yeah, I was a bit hiding. I was a bit trying to. Trying out and it's. It's different to play outside. And I was a lot afraid. I. I felt blocked and I, I didn't play. It was.

Ines Hartmuth [00:08:28]:
It was because I was. I really was afraid that anybody could hear me. And yeah, I was really in a mode of hiding. This was the beginning. And then I tried out a lot. I forced me a bit to play in some little villages. Different. Different places.

Ines Hartmuth [00:08:48]:
Also in the center of tourists. This was a bit annoying, but also interesting.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:54]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:08:56]:
And so I had a lot of places where I played for me, for nature, for animals and cows. Some. A friend told me that cows are. Are listening.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:08]:
Is that true?

Ines Hartmuth [00:09:09]:
Turn to the music. When there's some music. Yeah, they listen for. For just 10 seconds. They're really, really interested, but there's not a long time for their concentration.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:22]:
Do you think they enjoyed your style? What you think they enjoyed your style? Like, were you playing jazz? Were you playing classical? What were you playing for them?

Ines Hartmuth [00:09:29]:
I. I tried out a lot, but it was always the same. At the beginning they were really interested. Everybody, everybody, every cow was looking to me. And after 10 seconds, well, okay, now we know everything.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:42]:
So after, after playing for cows and people doing tryouts or in. In town centers, how did that enhance your. Your confidence to play more?

Ines Hartmuth [00:09:56]:
It was really interesting to see, especially in. In Places where they're not used to have music. So not the tourist places, more the little villages there. It was really interesting to see the reaction of the people. I was very shy at the beginning. I didn't want to. Derange.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:25]:
Deranged.

Ines Hartmuth [00:10:26]:
No, it's not. I tried the French word.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:29]:
Okay.

Ines Hartmuth [00:10:30]:
I didn't disturb. I didn't want to disturb anybody.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:35]:
Deranged. Yeah, yeah, it's better disturbed.

Ines Hartmuth [00:10:41]:
So I was really. I did little, little steps and. But every time I. I recognize that the people really were thankful and, and happy about it. And. Yeah, also this thing that often they said thank you. And this was so weird for me because for me it was like, I'm allowed to play for them or just like I'm happy to play. And it was so weird that they said thank you to me.

Ines Hartmuth [00:11:17]:
And there I understood that it's also. It can be a present for the people to hear some music.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:24]:
Yeah. So you're a classically trained trumpet player. And is this a traditional path that people get out of school and they get on their bike with their instrument and go travel around and play? I'm mostly kidding.

Ines Hartmuth [00:11:38]:
I didn't understand what exactly was the question.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:40]:
So when you, when you got out of school, other people, your classmates, what do they do? I'm sure they don't all get on a bicycle and do a bike tour with their instrument. Right. This is probably not normal.

Ines Hartmuth [00:11:52]:
No, Very different. No. But for me, I searched a lot for a normal way. When I was in my studies, I wanted. My aim was to play in an orchestra. But in my studies, I recognized that all these normal things which are seen in the society. I had a lot of plans in this. I wanted to have a family, three children, a husband and a job in an orchestra by what is safe.

Ines Hartmuth [00:12:31]:
This is my, My aim for my life.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:34]:
Did you, did you have an age that you had a goal for all these things to happen?

Ines Hartmuth [00:12:40]:
Not especially. I. I knew that I'm. I'm not the fastest person, but. Yeah, a bit like, like 30.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:47]:
Okay.

Ines Hartmuth [00:12:48]:
Around 30. It's. It's in the head of the people. It's often the age where you start to have a family and this stuff. And so I have had all these normal plans, but yeah, at some point I. I recognize that this is absolutely not me. And it's. Yeah, it's.

Ines Hartmuth [00:13:10]:
It's this kind of organize my life. It's just a. It's just out of. Of anxiety to. To. It's to hold something, to hold some. Some ideas and to safety, but it's not what the life gives me. I, I can't decide.

Ines Hartmuth [00:13:29]:
I can't decide these things. I can't decide. Yeah, family, plans. You can't really decide who you meet, of course. And for, for the, for the job, I, I, I, I would never be happy in an orchestra. It's not my job. And so I, yeah, I quit all these ideas and search for, for my life, for in the, in the music. I have my plans, my projects, and I try to, to go my own way.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:08]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:14:09]:
But yeah, it's, it's sometimes a bit difficult because there are no, I don't have a, like a role model or something. I, all my ideas come out of, of me and sometimes I don't know exactly what it is, but I, I find it in me. You know what I mean?

Jerry Kopack [00:14:31]:
Yeah, I do. I do. So you're on the road for, you said 10 weeks. So playing in nature, playing for people, playing just by yourself. How did your, did your music, did your confidence evolve over those 10 weeks? Did you come back with a more clear idea of what you want to do in the world? Not playing an orchestra.

Ines Hartmuth [00:14:51]:
Yeah, knew before, but yeah. Difficult to say because the trumpet. On my way. I think there on the road, it's difficult to really practice. It's just. You can play here a bit and hear a bit and then you find some good acoustic and you play. But it's like in sport you have to train a lot that it's, that the mask is, and I don't know, Musk's coordination is really good working that you have really the, the control of everything. And this is a work which is very difficult to do on the road.

Ines Hartmuth [00:15:43]:
So on the road it was more like to learn to play even if it feels like shit, and to accept the. When it's, when it just. I knew I haven't trained the muscles a lot. So now I, I just play. It doesn't feel very good. I don't have all the control. It's not the best quality, but just to play. And for this, the tour, yeah, I learned a lot to accept every, every note I play, even if it's not like.

Ines Hartmuth [00:16:21]:
I know it could. That's. I know it could be better.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:25]:
Ah, right. Did you grow up in a musical household or did you grow up with. I hear these stories people talk about their parents were into music or there's always music playing in the background and that's how they got into music. Did you grow up in sort of that household? Why did you, why'd you choose a trumpet? Were you A jazz.

Ines Hartmuth [00:16:42]:
Not, not really. My, my parents, my dad plays a bit music. He, he did trumpet when he was young. Then he stopped and he started a bit with me. But it was more that my parents teached us to follow our passions. And their most important thing for us or for them as parents is that they give us the way we want to go, that we have the freedom to go our own way. And for me, the trumpet was always I liked playing. I never had this, this passion for the trumpet as trumpet.

Ines Hartmuth [00:17:36]:
Many people have this, oh, you know, this trumpet player and this piece, and they know a lot and I never knew a lot of the stuff or these people, but this, I, I like this feeling of, of playing. And this gets more and more that I, I, I like this, this, yeah, this feeling when you play trumpet and it's, the whole body is involved and it's a, an expression. And the better you, you get, the more you can, can express yourself. And this is what I like. And it's, yeah. And for me, it's to find my own language in the trumpet, in the music.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:16]:
Yeah. So I grew up listening to jazz music, so Dizzy Gillespie, Miles Davis, some of the great trumpet players. And one of my favorite things about jazz is that it's so creative. There's so much improvisation going on. It is, it's like speaking a language, right? When people kind of jump in and they listen and other bandmates kind of play into it and they sort of see where that direction's going, they start going their own way and speaking that common language. Is that what you feel when you're playing? Just so that, that freedom for creativity, to speak your own language with your, with your trumpet?

Ines Hartmuth [00:18:53]:
Yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm still, I don't, I'm not arrived yet. Okay, so it's, it's still a search and I don't know yet what is my language, but yeah, I, I, I would say the search for my language.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:14]:
Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by bikeflights.com Bikeflights delivers everything you need to ship your bike, whether you're riding a bucket list tour, selling your bike online or moving across the country. Bikeflights Easy to pack bike boxes, carbon neutral shipping and pickup to delivery monitoring. Make it simple and save you up to 40%. Visit bikeflights.com warmshowers today to book a shipment for a limited time. Enter promo code warmshowers for 10% off your first shipment with bike flights. Now back to the show. So I know you said your tour wasn't really planned.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:54]:
You didn't really do much playing, just that you had 10 weeks that you were going to make your way to the south. What was it like just to sort of live with that kind of freedom and moment to moment decisions. Like did you wake up one day and it's like, you know what, I'm going to go here or I'm going to stay a little bit longer because this is a really neat place.

Ines Hartmuth [00:20:11]:
Yeah, it was a bit like that. It's. It. I think it was really difficult because I. I always had something which, Which I searched for but. But I never knew what it was and so I always had. Had like a little aim or if it was a place or, or to. Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:20:42]:
Like. Like the mountains or to, to. To be able to do something. But I just. Before I didn't know what it was. Just after it, I. I knew what I learned about it, but it was difficult not to know what I will learn.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:01]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:21:01]:
And sometimes it was like. Like I was. I was swimming and I. I didn't know where. Where I can hold to. To not drown. But I always found something.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:14]:
What were those first few weeks like. Or even days like on the road while you were sort of figuring things out. Did you ever think to yourself like wow, this is silly or I'm tired, I should go home or how did you push through those things? Did you ever have any sort of uncertainties or doubts along your bike tour?

Ines Hartmuth [00:21:30]:
Yeah, I would say it changed every two hours maybe. Oh no. Very, very fast. Because yeah, I'm an emotional person and there's one thing and I. Oh yeah, this is it. I find my way, my life, it's. Everything is working out and then one day later I. I'm lonely and I don't know what I do and what I search for and yeah, it's just.

Ines Hartmuth [00:21:59]:
Or it changes every day. Really.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:02]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:22:04]:
And it depends on what. What I'm. Who I meet, what I meet. If I'm occupied with something or sometimes. Yeah. I wrote a blog and so I wrote my texts to, To. To communicate the things I work through so to. To give it a sense because I'm.

Ines Hartmuth [00:22:27]:
I don't want to. With my art. I don't want the things I, I learn. I want that it has an impact. An impact on. On. Yeah. More than my own little words.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:38]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:22:38]:
I. I hope that I. I can. Yeah. Move a bit the verge to. To a better direction with my thoughts and which. What I do. So I, I try to find words for what.

Ines Hartmuth [00:22:52]:
For my. My thoughts, my feelings. And then Sometimes I wrote sometimes then was a name to play trumpet in front of people. So I had a new thing but yeah, I always had to find what is my new thing.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:09]:
Did you. Did you meet people along the way to sort of. Because you mentioned you. Sometimes you were lonely. Did you meet people on the way to maybe just cycle with or did you meet other people to maybe play music with, to connect with?

Ines Hartmuth [00:23:21]:
Yeah, everything were. There were moments of loneliness, but there were moments of. Of meeting meeting interesting super interesting people. Musicians. Net Music musicians. Yeah really difficult. But for me I. At the beginning I wasn't sure what.

Ines Hartmuth [00:23:44]:
What I search. At the. At the end I wasn't sure neither. But it was a lot about the. The people I met about how do I want to. To get in contact with people. How do I want to meet people? And in the normal life you. You meet a lot of people, but sometimes it's just like.

Ines Hartmuth [00:24:06]:
Like empty. And I, I live in the city because. Yeah, there are many reasons it's good. I love living here. But there are many people and you think you're not alone, but actually you can be really alone between all millions of people and sometimes you're less alone in lonely places where just a few persons but you really meet them and you really get in contact and you really try to listen and to see each other. And I think I learned a lot how I want to meet the people and which kind of meetings are good for me. I need.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:58]:
Yeah. I mean think about the courage that takes to set off by yourself on a solo bike tour. To just go without a plan to meet people throughout your trip. I mean that takes. It's a lot of courage. Did you, did you have any people that you've stayed in contact with as a result of your bike tour?

Ines Hartmuth [00:25:15]:
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's. It's the. The most important thing to, to have people. I have friends, family who. Where I know they. They are there if I need them. And my.

Ines Hartmuth [00:25:32]:
My best friend, I. I send her every. Every thought, every emotion I have. And this is this. I like saying I do a lot of things alone, but I'm never alone. And this is what I want to also what I want to show that. That or what is important for me to, To. To.

Ines Hartmuth [00:25:59]:
To show that. That I'm. I'm not doing it alone because I have at my. In my heart and in my phone or.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:12]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:26:13]:
Who are always, always there with me for me. And this is so important, so important.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:18]:
To have that sense of community and relationships. Right?

Ines Hartmuth [00:26:21]:
Yeah yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:23]:
Did you speak of Community relationships. Did you have any interesting Warmshowers experiences?

Ines Hartmuth [00:26:32]:
It's difficult to name one experience, but for me it was interesting to. There are many different reasons why the people use Warmshowers and so there are many different kinds of using it. And there are some people who are a bit lonely. There are some people who are interested in bicycle. There are some people who are interested in the spirit of traveling. There are people who, who experience the. The whole. To be hosted themselves and we.

Ines Hartmuth [00:27:07]:
Who feel a bit. I need to give something to.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:12]:
Sure.

Ines Hartmuth [00:27:13]:
And yeah, there's so many different people and it's. It's so interesting to. To meet these different spirits of, of hosting, of communication and of. Of. Yeah. Being together.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:28]:
Did you meet anybody else in the Wrmshowers who was musically inclined, who, who plays an instrument like you, that maybe you had like a little impromptu session in their living room?

Ines Hartmuth [00:27:39]:
It's a good question. I don't. I don't think so.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:45]:
Okay.

Ines Hartmuth [00:27:45]:
I met musicians and I played with some people.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:49]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:27:50]:
But I think not. Not on warm shows.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:52]:
Okay. That's all right. I know that you also previously had talked about the pressure of. I think you call it a performing society. Right. What does that mean?

Ines Hartmuth [00:28:06]:
This, this pressure of functioning. That everything which I do is. Is good. I have to work out, I have to. Yeah. This, this things. If you have a good life, you have a good job, you earn a lot of money, it's safe, you had a good. Have a good family, you don't get divorced.

Ines Hartmuth [00:28:28]:
There are so many rules of what does it mean to be good in this society? And I think it's. It's so, so wrong because we are missing so many things. We have so many rules and we are so afraid of. Of living that we hold on these rules but under the safety, we get empty. And I think if we want to live. Yeah, it's nice to have a. To go for things to want. If you do something, you want to do it good because you're passionate for it, wants to do it good For.

Ines Hartmuth [00:29:14]:
For the passion, for the love, for the thing, for the music. If you, if you like the music or whatever you do. But I think often we, we have these rules and we lose. We lose the reason why we do it and we're just doing it to. To be loved, to be accepted, to be whatever. To, to. To. Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:29:38]:
To get some things like love and acceptance and a safe life. But at the same time we are. If we do it by the false reasons, we are not happy. Right.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:52]:
That makes sense. It kind of goes back to sort of Those societal ideals and routines that we talked about earlier.

Ines Hartmuth [00:30:01]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:02]:
Yeah. So what do you, what do you think a trip like this taught you about life or humanity? Just the idea of traveling slow, solo, maybe without a plan, interacting with strangers and just seeing what life throws at you.

Ines Hartmuth [00:30:20]:
A lot. A lot. I, I, I'm still trying to arrive. It's been three weeks. I know. I think since I arrived at home after the. My voyage. Travel.

Ines Hartmuth [00:30:39]:
My travel. Yeah. And I feel that something had changed this thing before. I always had this feeling, you don't do enough. We have to do. You have to do. Often it was, you have to do more trumpet, and it's not enough. You have to work more.

Ines Hartmuth [00:31:00]:
And I knew it wasn't. My life is not just trumpet. My job is not just trumpet. I want to write texts, I want to do music. It's so much more. And it was difficult to get away from this thing. You have to practice, practice, practice. And now I'm better with this.

Ines Hartmuth [00:31:26]:
Now I can more accept that the life is, there are more parts and it's not just working. And for me, it's not just trumpet. And now I'm, I can better accept that the moments where I do nothing or where I write a text, for me, it's, it's what I want to do one day. I want to earn money with that. So, so it's not that I, when I, I spend the whole morning for writing a text, it's not nothing, but it's difficult to, to accept. Yeah. I, I, I didn't, I didn't do nothing today. I did something.

Ines Hartmuth [00:32:11]:
I wrote a text.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:13]:
Yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:32:14]:
And now I'm, I'm better in accepting that all these parts are important. And also when I meet friends or when I just do nothing, I need this influence for my music. I want to express something. And if I don't, life, what can I express?

Jerry Kopack [00:32:35]:
Yeah. I love that. Wow. So I guess it kind of goes with. I've always thought about this, that you can over prepare, but then you have to sort of go with the flow because at some point you can't, you can't plan for everything. Right. Sometimes life just happens and you have to be able to sort of pivot and adjust your plans as you need. Right?

Ines Hartmuth [00:32:58]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:59]:
That is wonderful. Ines, thank you so much for spending time with me today. How can our listeners find out more about your music or your travels and adventures.

Ines Hartmuth [00:33:11]:
On my page? I write a blog on, on French and in German, it's Ines. Normally I say it in French.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:23]:
Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Ines Hartmuth [00:33:31]:
And on Instagram I try to. To show a bit I like to do to. Yeah. To find different ways to express my feel, express my feelings. And with videos I try to express my thoughts, my feelings. So on Instagram.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:47]:
Okay. We will have links to all of those sites on our page. So thank you for sitting with me today and thank you for everyone else who's been listening to my conversation today with Ines Hartmuth. If you enjoy our show, give us a like on your social channels or just tell your friends. These stories hopefully will help you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller, one pedal stroke at a time. Until then, keep the wheels rolling and the story's coming. Thanks for joining us on Bike Life. I'm Jerry Kopak and I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we enjoyed sharing it with you.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:24]:
Please leave us a rating and review or just tell your friends. This helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world to learn more or become part the of of this amazing community. Visit us@warmshowers.org or follow us on Instagram @warmshowersore. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a question you'd like us to explore, email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.