Embracing Kindness on the Road

Jerry Kopack [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Bike Life, a podcast from the Warmshowers Foundation. Here we celebrate our global community of touring cyclists and hosts who make life on the road unforgettable. Through stories, insights and shared experiences, we explore the connections that fuel every journey. Whether you're pedaling across countries or welcoming travelers into your home, you're part of a movement rooted in generosity and adventure. Discover more and join the community@warmshowers.org now let's hit the road together. Hey everyone, this is Jerry Kopeck, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the Rocky Mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. If you ever wonder what goes into planning and riding your very first long distance bike tour, well, today's guest knows firsthand. Tyler Epstein is a teacher, a coach, and a former college athlete who decided to pedal from his home in Missouri all the way to the Oregon coast.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:01]:
On his first cross country trip, Tyler discovered not only the challenges of the road, but also the joy, connection, and the stories that come from crossing the US by bike. Tyler, welcome to Bike Life.

Tyler Epstein [00:01:12]:
Hey, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me, Jerry.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:15]:
So I want to talk about your background. What sport did you play and what do you coach?

Tyler Epstein [00:01:20]:
Well, in high school I played football, I wrestled and I ran track and then I was a college athlete. I played football in college and now I am a high school teacher at Belton High School. This is my 13th year teaching at Belton and I've. This will be my 14th year coaching football and my 14th year coaching wrestling. And I'm actually going back to coach track this year. So I'm a high school teacher and coach and, and I am really busy, but I like being busy. You know, when I'm not teaching and coaching, I'm usually riding my bike.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:55]:
Dang, man, you are. You're a machine and you must live on a schedule. Like, when do you sleep?

Tyler Epstein [00:02:03]:
Well, there's, you gotta definitely be organized. So for me to get my rides in, I've kind of gotta, you know, work around my schedule. So I don't spend a lot of time watching tv. Like when I'm home, I'll have a little bit of downtime every night, but I tried to get to bed about 9, 30, 10 at the latest because I get up really early during the week. You know, I had a buddy say once the morning time is free time.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:27]:
Ah, so do you know Ray Lewis, right, The former linebacker, professional.

Tyler Epstein [00:02:34]:
I was a middle linebacker myself. Big, big Ray Lewis fan. I've got a picture of Ray Lewis in my basement.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:39]:
I Bring it up. Because he's a big cycling advocate as well, right?

Tyler Epstein [00:02:42]:
Yes, he is.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:43]:
Have you followed any of his, of his stories?

Tyler Epstein [00:02:46]:
I follow all of his social media. I see his rides on Garmin, on, you know, he'll post, he'll post little kind of motivational things after he does a big ride on, on Instagram. Yeah, I follow him.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:58]:
How much do you think your athletic background, your training has helped you to, for this trip? Like with either mental toughness or grit?

Tyler Epstein [00:03:05]:
I mean, I, I, you know, I, I, a lot of my, my parents, what they instilled to me, I think it all really comes from my parents. My mom and dad were very, very tough people. Two of the toughest people I know. And you know, I get this, I get that toughness, both physical and mental toughness from them. But I would say wrestling more than anything. I was a wrestler in high school. I coach wrestling now. Wrestling is a top sport.

Tyler Epstein [00:03:31]:
And I would say I would attribute a lot of my ability to do hard things to being a wrestler.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:39]:
Ah, so how'd you get into cycling? Because that seems a bit different than very much so.

Tyler Epstein [00:03:45]:
I mean being a 255 pound middle linebacker to, while buying. I was about 255 my last year of college. So I got into it. I had a, an acquaintance. I didn't know the guy real well, but I met this guy at a bar one time, I was probably about 21 years old and he was getting ready to graduate from college and he was going to go on this cross country bike trip and he was telling me all about it and the bike and the panniers and the rack and everything he had for the bike. And I thought that sounded like the coolest thing ever. So I never really thought about cycling for exercise or racing triathlon or doing all that stuff. I just wanted to ride my bike across the country.

Tyler Epstein [00:04:25]:
So after college I bought a, I bought a cheap bike on Craigslist. It was actually a cyclocross bike that was a size too big. But then I got a job and I got busy and I got into triathlon. Then I got into gravel and now I, you know, I got to the point where I was riding between 9 and 10,000 miles a year. But I still, the whole reason I got into cycling was to do a cross country trip. And so that's kind of how I got into it.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:52]:
So then why this trip and why now?

Tyler Epstein [00:04:56]:
Well, I coached football for, I coached football for 13 years and I finally gave up football after last year and I said I'm going to finally do this trip. I always wanted to go from Missouri to Oregon on the Transamerica Trail. That was always the plan. And so I finally had time to do it with not having summer activities with football. And so I finally did the trip and now I'm back to coaching football. But I didn't coach this summer. They needed another person to coach. So they kind of got me back in just a few weeks ago.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:28]:
How much time did you allot for this?

Tyler Epstein [00:05:30]:
I was, I wanted to do it in under a month.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:33]:
Okay. Did you make it?

Tyler Epstein [00:05:35]:
I did. I did it in 26 days.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:37]:
Okay. So for people who don't know that route, how many miles is is roughly.

Tyler Epstein [00:05:44]:
2700 miles from where I started. I started on the Missouri Kansas border, about five miles from Pittsburgh, Kansas. I picked up on the route in Gerard, Kansas and I went from Gerard to Astoria. I did have a little bit of a wheel issue which cost me about 40 or 50, 40 miles. So I had to, I lost some mileage there. So I ended up doing 2, 664 total miles in 26 days.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:11]:
So pretty easy math. That's 100 miles a day, right?

Tyler Epstein [00:06:15]:
Yep. And I took two rest days and then I had a few days where one day I only did 44 miles and another day I did 59 miles.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:24]:
Only 44.

Tyler Epstein [00:06:25]:
Besides that I was doing, you know, Most days were 120 to 197. I was, you know, 1. I had to 140 mile days.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:33]:
197. Those are big days.

Tyler Epstein [00:06:36]:
Yeah, yeah. I was the third, the fourth day I think it was, I went from the middle of Kansas, Great Bend, Kansas all the way through to the Colorado border. It was 196 miles and. And then I went this the second to last day. I did 197 miles there in Oregon. Towards the end, did you feel like.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:59]:
You just needed to push through because you're running out of time or you just kind of got into a groove?

Tyler Epstein [00:07:04]:
My girlfriend Kim was flying into Portland on Monday and I hit bad weather two days before she was supposed to come in. I was supposed to climb near Sisters, Oregon. McKenzie's Pass. McKenzie Pass. There was a snow. There was wind and snow. I had a really, really tough day. It was the day in Oregon where I had 25 to 30 mile an hour wind gust.

Tyler Epstein [00:07:28]:
I hit sleet, I hit snow, I hit rain on the top of one of the mountain passes. When I came down into the town, I was pretty much freezing cold that night. I got through that day. It was a long day. And then that storm was still coming. So when I was about 40 miles from Sisters, I don't remember what town I was in, but there was a bad storm moving in with snow and sleet. So I actually had to get a Warmshowers host in Sisters, Oregon, and kind of hunker down for the day. And I knew if I did that I would need to be.

Tyler Epstein [00:07:57]:
Have two really big days the following two days. So I would basically need to go from Sisters to. Where was I? I went from sisters to Grand Rond. Grand Rond, Oregon, in one day, which was like 197 miles. And then that was just so I could have my last day be like 130 miles from Grand Ron to Astoria. So I had to have two really big days to get to a story by Monday afternoon, Monday evening to see Kim, because she was coming in.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:28]:
Did you. Was that stressful to you?

Tyler Epstein [00:08:32]:
I. I was up for the challenge. So at that point, you know, I was kind of all business. I was ready to close the trip out. I've been doing big days and I said, you know what, I'm gonna. I mentally, I just kind of checked out of everything else and I said, it's time to go. I like to call it serial killer mode. Basically just forget about everything.

Tyler Epstein [00:08:51]:
Like, I mean, you just. You don't think about it. You just got to go. You just gotta like, you know, it's kind of like a military kind of style thing. You just freaking. You just do it. So who was.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:00]:
Was it the football player went into beast mode? Is that Marshawn Lynch?

Tyler Epstein [00:09:04]:
It was Marshawn Lynch. So I would call it like, I had to go into beast mode. Yeah, I had to do two massively. Well, one massively big day and then this. The last day was only 130 miles, which was only relatively short compared to some of the other days.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:17]:
So to do that kind of mileage, you probably got a. A pretty lightweight bike. So talk to me about your setup.

Tyler Epstein [00:09:23]:
Yeah, I have a 2022 Cervelo Aspero Gravel bike. It's full carbon. It does not have any mounts on it has zero mounts. It's. I. I did this trip super light. I did the whole bike packing setup where I had a 16 and a half liter seat post bag off the back. I had a four liter frame pack.

Tyler Epstein [00:09:47]:
I had three water bottles, and then I had a nine liter handlebar bag with a three and a half liter accessory bag on the front. So I only took what I needed and nothing more. Ultra light tent, ultra light sleeping bag. Ultralight pad, my clothing items, and that was it. I would keep some oatmeal on me and a camp stove, but I would restock food or eat out a lot. So I did it very, very light because I wanted to be sort of fast, I guess.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:16]:
So what was your plan for sleeping along the way? Just hotels, camping, wherever.

Tyler Epstein [00:10:20]:
I'll tell you what. About two days before the trip, I signed up for Warmshowers. It was a $30. And I said, well, if I need this, I'll have it. But I use the Adventure Cycling Association. I bought the maps through them. So with Adventure Cycling association for the TransAmerica Trail, there's 12 map sections, and I needed eight of the sections.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:40]:
And.

Tyler Epstein [00:10:40]:
And when you buy those maps, it gives you. There's basically key points along the way where every morning or every night, I would kind of look to see where I could get the next day. It tells you where campgrounds are, it tells you where hostels are, it tells you where grocery stores are, bike shops, so. And it gives you phone numbers. So if I was camping in a city park the next day, I could call and they would call me back and say, yeah, we have space, or, yeah, you can stay here. And so I camped a lot. I think 16 or 17 nights camping, three Warmshowers, host and two hotels and a few hostels.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:13]:
Okay. Yeah, the. The crew over at Adventure Cycling, they do a really good job of putting those maps together and, and really laying things out for the traveler. It's really good stuff. I'm glad you used them.

Tyler Epstein [00:11:25]:
I did. It was fantastic. I couldn't have done it without that.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:28]:
Did you. Do you have any reservations when you rolled out your driveway? Like, what am I getting myself into? Or does this sound crazy?

Tyler Epstein [00:11:36]:
I was a bit nervous. I. I know that I. I know that I can ride big miles. I mean, I've done two dirty cans at two hundreds, I guess, unbound 200 gravel races. I've done all the big, big gravel races. I mean, I've done hard things, but I didn't know if I was capable of stacking that many days back to back to back to back. I knew it would be difficult, so I.

Tyler Epstein [00:11:59]:
I was a little bit nervous about that. Obviously, you're always nervous about the bike. I mean, you want your equipment to hold up. You know, you don't want to have mechanicals and stuff like that. But I was nervous. I was nervous, but I. I kind of settled in after the first day or two, and it was. Became fun, became a blast.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:19]:
Did you do any shakedown rides? Before, just to make sure that you could break things if you did, you're close to home.

Tyler Epstein [00:12:26]:
I did one shakeout ride with some buddies prior to the trip with the bike loaded down and it was a 50 mile ride.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:34]:
Okay. What is curious, what did your family, your friends or Kim think about when you were talking about this trip?

Tyler Epstein [00:12:42]:
I think they thought that it sounded crazy. Obviously they thought it sounded crazy. They're like, what? My dad asked me several times, are you going to bring a gun? And I said, no, I'm, I'm. I'm not going to bring a gun. You know, it's. No, I, I don't. First of all, I don't like guns, but I think a lot of people were nervous about, you know, something happening to me. Obviously people are nervous about cars and that's, you know, that's, that's understandable.

Tyler Epstein [00:13:11]:
But I think people were more nervous about someone robbing me or, you know, hurting me in some way, like at a campsite or something. Yeah, they thought it was crazy. But then once I got into it, I was posting a lot on social media, on Instagram, I was posting on the stories, and every day I made a daily recap video that I posted on Instagram and YouTube, like a minute and a half video. And I think people really started to buy in. And my grandma, she was nervous for me. And then I think she enjoyed being able to see me in those videos and see what was happening and she felt better about things.

Jerry Kopack [00:13:43]:
Yeah. So people started seeing that along the way, maybe they sort of relaxed a little bit, like, hey, Ty's gonna be okay, right?

Tyler Epstein [00:13:49]:
Yeah. I think being able to show the videos and where I was and what I was doing, it definitely it eased people's minds and people started to like, I, I couldn't believe it. I. It started to kind of take off amongst my friends. Like I. High school friends and people I work with. Like, I came back to work this year and there was people that watching, that were watching that I. Not, you know, not, not that we're not friends, but I don't talk to these people very much.

Tyler Epstein [00:14:11]:
Or we're. I just all say hi or whatever, but we're not super close. Like, they started following. It was pretty cool.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:17]:
Do you think you inspired anybody else out there, any of your followers, your family, your friends to maybe do crazy trip like this?

Tyler Epstein [00:14:24]:
I, I've had a few students that I teach and then I work with that are like, I want to do something like that one day. I've had co workers that tell me that they got their bikes out of the shed and they dusted them off, and they were riding around with their kids or. And I, I had a guy that lives in Belton. I, I didn't know him before this trip. I was riding the other day with my buddy, and he yells out the window. And I was like, oh, shoot, someone's yelling at us. Well, he was yelling, hey, I followed your whole trip to Oregon. It was amazing.

Tyler Epstein [00:14:53]:
And then he added me on Instagram, or I guess he, he messaged me on Instagram. He said, hey. That was me yelling, you. You taught my son years ago. I followed the whole trip. I, I, my son told me to follow, and he actually just bought a bike and he wants to get into it and he wants to get healthy and he wants to start riding because of my videos. That's what he told me. And I had a few people that mentioned that they wanted to get bikes because of the trip.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:16]:
Man, that is the best gift if you can inspire people to get on their bike and go and explore and do stuff that's maybe outside of their comfort zone. Like, that's, that feels amazing.

Tyler Epstein [00:15:28]:
Yeah. That kind of makes the social media part of it all worth it. You know, I wanted to, I'm not a big writer, so I didn't want to do, like, a blog, but I wanted to have a way to, uh, you know, remember the trip. And having people tell me that I influenced them to want to get healthy and ride bikes, like, is just. Yeah, it's incredible. It's incredible.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:51]:
Wow. So have you been, I don't know, have you tried to talk to more of your students on a more formal basis in your classroom? People who maybe didn't follow you on Instagram or on social media? Have you brought any of those kind of lessons into your classroom or to your, to your athletes?

Tyler Epstein [00:16:10]:
100%. And, you know, I, I posted a, a video during the trip on a story one day, and I was thinking about coaching and thinking about wrestling, and I know that a lot of our wrestling team was following the trip, and I simply said, you know, once you've wrestled, everything else is easy. And, you know, I got through that, and I can, I can do this. If I can get through a wrestling practice in the season of wrestling, I, I can, I can, you know, pretty much do anything. And I think that seeing those kids that aren't athletes that followed the journey and that I have as students, I think doing something like this, in a way gives me some sort of credibility. They know that I'm willing to do Hard things. They know that I'm willing to push through. And I think it gives me another level of respect that maybe I didn't necessarily have before.

Tyler Epstein [00:16:59]:
You know, this guy rode his bike fully self supported from Missouri to Oregon. Like, that's amazing. So I don't know, maybe I'm off there, maybe, maybe not. But I think the kids that followed, they definitely, yeah, it's, it resonates with them.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:14]:
No, it makes total sense because whether they're your students or the athletes, your coach, like, they know that you're a tough guy. You've played college football, you've got the, the battle wounds to prove it. So they know that you're tough, but this is like a whole different level of tough that they can definitely look up to and respect. Sure. Wow. Okay. So I talk a lot about what I call the human experience. So landscapes, food, culture, they're always amazing when we travel.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:41]:
But it's traveling by bike, as you know, that allows us these connections with people that we wouldn't ordinarily get if we travel by a bus or a train or by a car. So talk to me about some people that you've met that maybe impacted you along the way.

Tyler Epstein [00:17:57]:
There was honestly, countless people. There was countless people. I will say this, Jerry, I am a better human being now than I was before this trip.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:10]:
Wow.

Tyler Epstein [00:18:10]:
You know, when you are an educator, you know, PE educators are good. People are good, but we deal with a lot of, there's, there is a lot of negativity, and that's in every job, in every career. And we get stuck in our own. We get stuck in our little world and, you know, what's going on with us right here in Kansas City, Missouri. And I think sometimes we forget that, like, you know, there is a lot of wonderful people out there. And I work with some absolutely amazing, amazing people. But I think we, we, we lose trust. I mean, my dad, you know, I, he was concerned, like, hey, are you carrying a gun? My mom was concerned.

Tyler Epstein [00:18:52]:
What I learned from this trip is that people are inherently good. And I met so many wonderful people. I mean, you, for example, you know, I, I didn't want to, you know, put you out, and I needed a place to stay and I, I, I, I rolled in and you took my clothes and started my laundry. You said, hey, here's your room. Get a shower. And I didn't want to eat your food and I didn't want to, you know, put you out. So I said, hey, I'm gonna go get some food down in Breck. And you were making up a delicious dinner and you're like, well, I've got some food if you want to eat.

Tyler Epstein [00:19:22]:
And I was like, well, yeah, that sounds amazing. And so we had the best, like two and a half, three hour conversation, whatever it was, and had some delicious food. And that is what made this trip so special. And it wasn't just you, it was Molly, my Warmshowers host and sisters. It was the host I had in Missoula. It was the people that, the people that picked me up when I had a wheel blowout in the middle of nowhere in Wyoming. It was the guys at the coffee shop in Du Bois, Wyoming that helped me sort out a plan on how to get my new wheel set here. It was people that picked up my tab at a Mexican restaurant.

Tyler Epstein [00:19:58]:
It was, I mean it was countless people. It was, it was hanging out in a bar in. Where, where was I, Jeffrey, Wyoming, a town of 30 people. And there's, there's a hostel there and a bar. And the lady heard I was coming through and she cooked me steak and potatoes and I hung out and had beers with like real life cowboys that have been there since the 70s. Like these are things you can't, you can't make up. Getting a ride from Dubois, Wyoming, from a guy who works at the Tetons park and, and getting a built in tour guide and he's taking me with my bike to the bike shop in Jackson to get my new wheels put on. Like the people made this trip.

Tyler Epstein [00:20:41]:
This, this trip, this trip after like four or five days wasn't about riding my bike. It wasn't about camping. It was about the people along the way.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:48]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:20:49]:
So.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:50]:
And think about that. If you were in a car driving through, you would have not even hesitated. That small town with that small hostel, not one bar, you would have kept on going because you're on your bike. Like, I'm gonna stop here and have a bite deed and see what's happening.

Tyler Epstein [00:21:05]:
It was a wonderful experience. It was, it was, it was the best, it was the best 26 days of my life.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:11]:
Whoa.

Tyler Epstein [00:21:13]:
I mean, I've had, I've had a great life and I love my, I love my life. I don't know, is that, is that bad to say? But it was like, it was like, it was like a dream. I mean it was 20, it was a 26 day dream. That it was, it was hard, it was challenging, but it was so rewarding because of how hard it was and the people I met.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:36]:
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Tyler Epstein [00:22:20]:
Whenever I had the. I had a catastrophic failure on the bike. Um, I had some wheels. They were good wheels. Um, I was about 40 miles from Du Bois, Wyoming and I had one bar on my phone of service.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:33]:
Oh.

Tyler Epstein [00:22:34]:
And I didn't, I was worried about a spoke issue because I had a lot of weight on the bike. I actually brought extra spokes, but no, the whole wheel blew out of the, the sidewall. This, the rim blew out. Like not fixable. At that point, I was panicked. I got a ride from a couple from California. They put my bike in their camper, they put me in the car and we, we. They took me to the boys.

Tyler Epstein [00:22:56]:
That's where they were headed. At that point, I kind of just kind of let, let it go. Whatever's going to happen is going to happen and this was meant to be. This is going to add to the adventure. I get to hang out with these wonderful locals that have coffee every morning. At that point, I said, whatever happens was meant to happen and that's. It's an adventure at this point. You know what I mean? So that was probably the moment where I just kind of relaxed and said, hey, let's just ride bikes and have fun.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:24]:
Yeah, you're gonna figure it out. You're gonna get through this. This is not the worst thing that could happen to you.

Tyler Epstein [00:23:29]:
Sure.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:30]:
It's gonna be okay.

Tyler Epstein [00:23:32]:
Sure.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:32]:
So what did your family and friends think when you return home and you shared your experiences with them? Do they think like, wow, that sounds amazing? And that wasn't crazy after all.

Tyler Epstein [00:23:40]:
They thought it sounded amazing. They were so, they were so, like, blown away. They couldn't believe I did it. And I said, guys, people, people do this trip. They've been doing this trip since 1976.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:50]:
Sure.

Tyler Epstein [00:23:50]:
You know, it was the bike centennial. Uh, they, there was 4,000 people that did some or all of the Transamerica Trail. And you know, I said, people do this. I Said they don't do it usually as fast. There's some people that do, but they wanted to hear about the. The stories and the adventures. Our old principal, who's now a superintendent in our school district, he caught me outside the weight room a couple weeks ago, and we sat out in the blazing hot sun, and he asked me all kinds of questions. We talked for like 10, 15 minutes, and he was just blown away.

Tyler Epstein [00:24:22]:
He wanted to hear about the experiences and the people and the food and the. And the. The problems I have with the bike. He just was very interested. And it's not something people do every day, hauling all your stuff and camping. And it's interesting to people, I think.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:36]:
But I think this. Stories like this are what people need to hear about the. The goodness, the kindness, the generosity, the empathy of people in a whole. Because there's a lot of other negativity, as you mentioned, going around in the world, and they. We need good stories like this, so it's interesting. I'm glad you didn't carry a gun. That makes me feel a lot better.

Tyler Epstein [00:25:00]:
Yes.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:00]:
But it made me think of a story of mine. So I host a lot in Breckenridge, as you know. I hosted you, but the summer before you came through, I hosted a family. A dad and two kids. And I slept in my living room. And my dad was visiting from Michigan. He was the kindest guy in the world. He's 92.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:18]:
He's a Korean War veteran. He'd give somebody the last $5 in his wallet if meant that he would starve that day. And so he's making friends, we're having dinner together, and thinks it's the most amazing thing ever. But the next morning, you know, the family is in the living room, they're waking up, and I talked to my dad. I was like, how'd you sleep last night? He's like, I didn't sleep at all. I was like, what do you mean? He said, I kept getting up in the middle of night to check on them. I was like, okay. It's like, to make sure they weren't stealing things.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:44]:
I'm like, oh, dad, no one's stealing things. Like, people are. As you said, people are inherently good. And again, it's just. It's just a different generation, maybe different mindset. But I think the more we talk about these things, the more we share stories, the more we share a meal with people. Realize, to your point, like, people are just people.

Tyler Epstein [00:26:01]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:02]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:26:03]:
People are people, man.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:04]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:26:05]:
And I. It was. I. I was over. Overtaken with emotions a few times on this trip. One day I was packing up near the beginning of the trip. I had a couple hard days. The first couple days it was mentally tough and I just started, I just started sobbing.

Tyler Epstein [00:26:21]:
When I went to the Adventure Cycling association headquarters and the lady started showing me around, I could not stop crying. She probably thought I was a weirdo. But I've been dreaming about this. It was, I was so happy to be there. And this, this trip has, I've, I, I, I was a member of Adventure Cycling association out of college. I got their magazines. Like, I had the little car like before, GPS maps or even digital. Like you had to buy the waterproof ones.

Tyler Epstein [00:26:47]:
And I had planned on doing this adventure and it never happened. And it was just so special to me to finally do this. And it was everything I thought it would be and more.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:57]:
So how do you think it's changed? Like, it sounds like it's changed you a lot, but like, in what way?

Tyler Epstein [00:27:03]:
Let's see. I think that I will be, I'll definitely. I'm always willing to help people, but I think now I'm even more willing to help someone in need. I've always been, I, I mean, I've always been the guy that, you know. Some people will get upset with this, probably, but if I see, if I have a couple extra bucks and there's a homeless person on the side of the road, I usually, I'll give them a couple bucks. If a friend needs help or if somebody needs something, I'm quick to help. But I can't say I'm always quick to help random strangers. But now I think I would more so be because what if I was in that situation and I have been in that situation and I think that it taught me to kind of list, let, let things be, let things happen.

Tyler Epstein [00:27:52]:
You can't control certain things, but you can control how you respond. So, you know, I used to get really, really worked up about things. Like if I couldn't get a tubeless tire to seat, I would get mad. Or if I spilled expensive orange seal or something, like, I would get like, pissed. Now on this trip, I did such a better job when that wheel explosion happened, there was nothing I could do. Yeah, I didn't lose my mind. I got a little, I was anxious, obviously, but I didn't get mad, I didn't get angry. So I think I've, I've become.

Tyler Epstein [00:28:19]:
This trip taught me to become more patient.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:21]:
Yeah. I mean, it's almost like a feeling of surrender. Right. Like there are things that you Just can't control and you're. You're gonna get through it. And I, I remember when I was a kid, another one of my dad's stories when I would be feeling like woe is me or poor me, like this happened to me. And it's, it's small stuff. Right.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:39]:
But when you're a kid, it feels big. And he told me this lesson, like how hard this may be, like someone else has got a lot harder than you. And so keep things in perspective. And so, yeah, an exploding wheel in the middle of nowhere with one bar of service can feel a little bit anxious. But you're going to get through it. People are good. Someone's going to pick you up. And they did.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:00]:
And you finished your trip and it was amazing.

Tyler Epstein [00:29:03]:
Yep. I wouldn't change anything. I mean I obviously that was stressful at the time, but I would not change that wheel explosion happening. I would not change. I had a brake caliper issue that I had stuck in Missoula. I had to get another Warmshowers host. I was not supposed to stay in Missoula. So twice I had, you know, your trip.

Tyler Epstein [00:29:20]:
I had your stop. I had kind of planned to stop there, but there was twice I needed Warmshowers host because of something that happened. One was the weather.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:29]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:29:29]:
And one was the. I had a break rudder robe. It was a Sunday and my rotor was rubbing and there was something wrong with the pistons, so I had to get it fixed. I had to stay till the following Monday for the main mechanic to get to the shop. I wouldn't change anything about any of those stops.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:44]:
Yeah. And look at the people you met and experiences you had as a result of those rather seemingness, seemingly minor unfortunate occurrences.

Tyler Epstein [00:29:53]:
Yeah. I wouldn't change a thing. It was awesome.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:56]:
Yeah. Yeah. So what was reentry like? Kind of, you know, for 26, 27 days your life is all about riding your bike. Then you get finished and it's okay. It's back to the grind, back to the classroom, back to. Back to coaching. What was that re entry like?

Tyler Epstein [00:30:14]:
There was a level. There was a sadness.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:16]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:30:17]:
I mean all you wake up in the morning, you have to pack your tent up. And I was bike packing, so everything was packed tight. You ride all day, you have to find food, you have to find power. If you can. You have to find at least water. I was taking water bottle showers the first six, five days because I didn't have a shower. You have to. Basically you're so busy, you have to set your tent up and then you have to do everything the next day.

Tyler Epstein [00:30:40]:
So it's almost just like, oh, what now? Now I just have a hotel and I just can take a shower here. And there was a level of like happiness to be done. And, and it was amazing what I just completed. But there was definitely a, A, a time of some sadness.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:57]:
Sure.

Tyler Epstein [00:30:59]:
And, but that's the beautiful thing of it is now I get to plan the next bike packing trip.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:04]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:31:05]:
Something else to look forward to. But no, I was fine. I got to go to the lake for the fourth. We got to. Me and Kim got to explore the Oregon coast for about four or five days and then fly home after I had my bike shipped home.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:16]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:31:17]:
So yeah, now I get to plan the next trip.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:21]:
And speaking of, is it something on the radars or what's on your hit list? Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:31:26]:
So I'm going to do the Arkansas high country route this fall at some point, the northwest loop. So it's only about 260 miles. So it'll probably be a two night kind of thing. Three days of riding. So that's going to be my next trip at some point this fall. And then at the end of school next year after the last day of school like I did this year, the plan is to start in the same spot but on the, on the Kansas side. And I'm going to ride from Kansas to Virginia and finish the Transamerica Trail.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:57]:
I love that idea. Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:00]:
And then, and then we'll see. But before I'm 40, I'm kind of wrestling tech, you know, thinking about the idea of the Great Divide.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:11]:
Well, you know whose house sits along the Great Divide route?

Tyler Epstein [00:32:15]:
I do. I know a guy.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:16]:
Yeah. So when you roll through Breckenridge, look me up and we'll, we'll have dinner.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:21]:
100.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:22]:
That's, that's a good route. So I think you'll probably want a different bike as you know, because.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:28]:
Well. Or maybe I want to stay. I have this bike. I don't know if you can see it. It's a, it's a, it's a 29 or mid fat. That would be a good bike for that. Yeah, I've considered that. The Trek stash.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:38]:
Oh great.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:39]:
And I've also considered putting on a suspension fork on my cervelo and I can run like a mountain bike tire up front.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:46]:
Okay.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:47]:
I just don't know. I know the Great Divides most, a lot of gravel and some single track.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:51]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:51]:
From what I've gathered.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:52]:
Yep.

Tyler Epstein [00:32:54]:
I, I gotta figure that out. I'm not sure yet.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:57]:
Yeah, I'VE seen people run it rigid, but from my personal experience, after a while riding on really chunky gravel roads, a little bit of give in the front end will save you a lot of energy. Sure.

Tyler Epstein [00:33:08]:
There's like that fine balance of like comfort and speed kind of thing.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:12]:
Sure.

Tyler Epstein [00:33:13]:
So that's, that's something I'll think about. I. I would probably want to go with a gravel bike with some like 2.2 wide tires.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:21]:
Perfect.

Tyler Epstein [00:33:22]:
And so there may be a new bike somewhere in the future. Before then, I don't know. Because the trend for gravel bikes now everything's going towards like being able to fit like a, a mountain bike tire.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:33]:
It's basically a drop bar mountain bike, right?

Tyler Epstein [00:33:36]:
Yeah, for sure. Like, and I could take that bike. We'll see.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:39]:
Would you, would you ride or race it?

Tyler Epstein [00:33:42]:
I would, I would do what I did. I wouldn't necessarily race it, but.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:45]:
Okay.

Tyler Epstein [00:33:46]:
I would go fast again. And everyone kept telling me on my trip, they said, slow down, enjoy it. And I'm like, yeah, I am enjoying it. But part of the enjoyment with cycling for me is it being hard. Like, I like to feel like smoked at the end of a day. Like, I, I love that feeling of like, man, I am cooked. And so I got to have a good balance of like the rest days and meeting people and I got to do a ton of cool stuff, but also suffer. And I really wanted to suffer, so I did that.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:11]:
Yeah, I was, I was going to ask, did you ever feel like you were going too fast and you wanted to slow things down?

Tyler Epstein [00:34:17]:
No. And I'll tell you this because I kind of wanted to. We go to the lake every year for the fourth of July. Yeah, I really wanted to see Kim. I mean, biking, cycling is selfish. It's a selfish hobby. And you know, especially taking a month, you know, a 26 day bike packing trip, you know, that, that's a, that's a long time to be away. So I wanted to do that but also have my summer with her because she's also a teacher.

Tyler Epstein [00:34:42]:
So I wanted us to be able to have the time on the Oregon coast. We had a wonderful time. We went and saw some of her family that lives there in Oregon. And I wanted to be able to go to the lake and see my family. I wanted to see my mom for her birthday. So I wanted to, I wanted to pack everything into this summer and I was able to do that. So I think I did it perfectly.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:01]:
I love it. So I want to sort of wrap things up with a little. I don't know, rapid fire travel questions. What do you think?

Tyler Epstein [00:35:09]:
Sounds good.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:10]:
Cool. So it's an easy one, but it's an important one. The first question here. Does your bike have a name?

Tyler Epstein [00:35:15]:
It does not. No.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:17]:
Dude. Yeah, it's bad luck. It's like going out without a christened boat or something like that.

Tyler Epstein [00:35:21]:
Yeah, I gotta name it.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:22]:
That's probably why your real blew up, right? It's bad luck.

Tyler Epstein [00:35:25]:
Okay. Yeah, it's a good point. I. I'll think of a name.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:28]:
Work on that. All right. Did you have a favorite city or state or maybe a place you'd like to return to, maybe spend some more time?

Tyler Epstein [00:35:35]:
Yeah, my favorite place on the trip was hands down, dubois, Wyoming, where I was delayed a day for the. The wheel blowout. That was my favorite place on the trip, hands down.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:45]:
Why?

Tyler Epstein [00:35:47]:
The people that I met there. So I had the blowout and I got the ride. And they have a wonderful little hostel there. Everything's in this downtown area. They call it the Valley of warm winds because once you climb out of the valley, you get up into the mountain and then you're in, you get into Jackson and it's totally different. You know, it's like they don't get much snow. It's kind of in the valley. It's just this little awesome town that is not really commercialized yet.

Tyler Epstein [00:36:12]:
And there was a hostel right there. And I was sitting outside and I needed to find a plan. I needed to hash out a plan to get my new wheels or get to a bike shop because the bike shop there had closed. And I met these wonderful locals that have coffee every morning. And we basically became best friends. And those guys were just awesome. They brought me in and made. They took me in as one of their own and I just.

Tyler Epstein [00:36:35]:
I love that place. And I saw Anthony Robles there. He was an NCAA Division 1 wrestling champion from Arizona State who only has one leg. And there's a movie about him called Unstoppable on Prime. He's the. There's a prime movie about him. And I'm walking down the road during my off day waiting to figure out my plan. And he's eating.

Tyler Epstein [00:36:53]:
And I got a picture with him. He was. He has one leg and Division 1 national champ. He was speaking to the Boys and Girls Club there like random. So that was just a really special place for me.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:05]:
I mean, look at how these seemingly random. Do you believe in random or not? But seemingly random things happen and how they change the whole trajectory of your trip. Like you having a mechanical led you to this amazing Experience that you probably would have just blown right through.

Tyler Epstein [00:37:22]:
Oh, yeah, I, I would have camped there, but then I would have ridden my way into Yellowstone the next day. I wouldn't have stayed. I wouldn't have taken a rest day there. I was not planning on taking a rest day that early because I, you.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:33]:
Know, man, that is a great, great story. Okay, navigation, what do you use?

Tyler Epstein [00:37:41]:
I used a Garmin 1040 solar cycling computer.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:47]:
Gotcha. I think you told me this earlier, but was there a particular day that was a specific, specifically challenging? I think you mentioned something about snow coming down a pass, which sounds terrible.

Tyler Epstein [00:37:57]:
I had, I had two really tough days. One of them was I climbed up Willow Pass and I was near Walden. I was about 22 miles from Walden, Colorado, near the Wyoming border. I came down a pass, it was Willow Pass. I had went through the Arapaho National Forest with headwind and rain. I've been rained on for about two hours. I got up to the top of the pass and I got sleeted on and snowed on, came down the pass. There was an old gentleman in his shop in Rand, Colorado who has a wood burning stove.

Tyler Epstein [00:38:29]:
And it's an antique shop, beautiful shop. He was working outside on his fence. And I said, sir, can I come into your shop? He goes, come on in. I got the wood burning stove going. He like added a couple logs to the wood burning stove. I got all my stuff off. I was freezing, couldn't feel my hands. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was cold, like, and so I got warm, I had some food.

Tyler Epstein [00:38:47]:
Then I made it 22 miles through more rain to Walden. And then the next day I made my way into Wyoming. So that was tough. But then there was the day in Oregon that was just as tough, if not tougher, where I had like 30 mile an hour wind gust in my face for 120 miles. I think I did that day. Climbed another pass, got rained on, sleeted on, like hard sleet came down, was freezing again. Those were two really tough days. But for every, like, really tough day, I had some hot days in Oregon, climbing out of Hell's Canyon.

Tyler Epstein [00:39:18]:
Yeah, that was a hot day. But for every really tough day, there was like, probably four or five, like pretty awesome days. Like, beautiful and, you know, not bad.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:26]:
Yeah. When you were enduring those rough days, were you ever just thinking to yourself, like, God, what am I doing? This is crazy.

Tyler Epstein [00:39:33]:
I text Ken on the one day in Oregon and I said, I'm done with this. I never want to ride this bike again. I hate this. I Want to be done. And she gave me a pep talk. She's like, no, not many people can do what you're doing. You got this. You can do it.

Tyler Epstein [00:39:47]:
And I made it through that day, and I was pretty down that day. I was pretty work. I was pretty, you know, just defeated. And I said to myself, oregon, you may have won the first three quarters, but I'm one in the fourth. And, yeah, I got mentally tough after that, and I finished strong that day. And I said, you know what? Tomorrow's a new day. Tomorrow's a new day.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:07]:
Yeah, it's amazing. You. You clean up, you get a good night's sleep, some food in your stomach, and you wake up and, yeah, you're just. You're ready for the next battle.

Tyler Epstein [00:40:15]:
100.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:16]:
Let's see. Anything that you wish you had along the way, whether it's gear or parts or clothing, you had everything.

Tyler Epstein [00:40:23]:
There is not a single item I would have left at home, and there is not a single item more I would have brought. I went. If I had to pack my bike, I would do it the exact same way. I used every piece of clothing I had multiple times on the trip. I never felt like I didn't have enough. And when it got really cold, there was at night in walled and it got cold, but I was. I was okay. I got a pretty good sleeping bag.

Tyler Epstein [00:40:45]:
A down bag.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:46]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:40:47]:
But no, I had. My. My setup was absolutely dialed.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:50]:
Wow, that's amazing because usually someone will say, like, I had all this space in my pan years, so I brought these extra things and turned out I didn't really need them and they offloaded them or like, wow, I really wish I had a Gore Tex jacket or something like that, but. Sounds like you got it dialed, man.

Tyler Epstein [00:41:05]:
Yeah, I did. I spent a lot of time in research. Yeah. And getting. Getting. And I spent some money on getting. There was a few wool items. I had a wool hoodie that I loved.

Tyler Epstein [00:41:16]:
I would wear that with a rain jacket when it got, you know, kind of more chilly. I didn't really even need a puffer jacket. I didn't bring a puffer jacket, and I don't regret not having one. Okay, good.

Jerry Kopack [00:41:24]:
I was wondering about that. Even the snow and sleet, you're still fine.

Tyler Epstein [00:41:27]:
I was okay that that wool hoodie was, like, packable, but really nice and warm.

Jerry Kopack [00:41:31]:
Okay, how about this? What was your favorite snack food? Like, what do you carry with you? I know you said, good question.

Tyler Epstein [00:41:36]:
So I. People are probably going to be like, what? Like, Dollar General? That's just junk But I mean really cycling fuel is a lot of just sugar. So I would stop. I went through a lot of towns with Dollar Generals.

Jerry Kopack [00:41:49]:
Yeah.

Tyler Epstein [00:41:50]:
And I would buy those Belveda bars. But I would buy a lot of Rice Krispie Treats. Treats. So the Rice Really Treat brand, they're the home style with the big fat marshmallows. I would get those and I had a little bag on my handlebars. Or I'd stuff all my snacks in or if I had my cargo bibs on, I'd stuff them in there. And obviously I would try to eat real food because it's just going to fuel you better. But just for like keeping carbs in your body.

Tyler Epstein [00:42:14]:
Like I was smashing Rice Krispie treats.

Jerry Kopack [00:42:17]:
Ed is about the simplest of simple sugars.

Tyler Epstein [00:42:19]:
Yeah. Marshmallow. I. I ate like probably 25 to 30 rice Krispie treats.

Jerry Kopack [00:42:26]:
Not Snickers. Rice Krispie Treats.

Tyler Epstein [00:42:28]:
Rice Krispie treats.

Jerry Kopack [00:42:30]:
I will check on that. I definitely grew up eating a lot of those. I never thought of those as endurance food. But that's. That's an interesting one.

Tyler Epstein [00:42:36]:
Yep.

Jerry Kopack [00:42:37]:
And last one. Why should people do a trip like this?

Tyler Epstein [00:42:42]:
Well, I guess the easy answer is the adventure. I know that may sound cliche. Is that the word? Like. Oh, the. But the adventure. I mean you don't know what's people are like, how are you going to plan? How? I said I didn't plan. I said I can't plan. I don't know what's going to happen.

Tyler Epstein [00:43:00]:
I don't know where. I'll kind of figure out where I could possibly sleep, you know, each day. But every day I just kind of had to figure it out. And I think the spontaneousness of that is what makes a bike packing trip so special. And you never know the people you're going to meet. Like you're going to be blown away by the people you meet. The. And the things you see.

Tyler Epstein [00:43:20]:
You get to ride your bike. I remember there'd be times where I just look around in these massive mountains and streams and I'd have to like pinch myself like this. I can't believe I'm here right now doing this. It's. It's amazing. It's amazing. And having to be self sufficient, like what you have is what you have and you got to figure it out.

Jerry Kopack [00:43:41]:
Man. I love your attitude. I love your just zest for life and I have loved hanging out with you and talking to you after your long workday today. So thank you for making time for me. This has been a lot of fun.

Tyler Epstein [00:43:54]:
Thank you, Jerry. I appreciate you having me. I love talking about the trip, so.

Jerry Kopack [00:43:58]:
Yeah, and I want to thank everyone else out there who's listening to my conversation today with Tyler Epstein. If you enjoy our show, give us a like on your social channels or maybe just tell your friends. These stories hopefully will inspire you to set up on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller, one pedal stroke at a time. Until then, keep the wheels rolling and the story's coming. Thanks for joining us on Bike Life. I'm Jerry Kopak, and I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we enjoyed sharing it with you. Please leave us a rating and review or just tell your friends. This helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world.

Jerry Kopack [00:44:37]:
To learn more or become part of this amazing community. Visit us@warmshowers.org or follow us on Instagram at warmshowersoreg. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a question you'd like us to explore, email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.