Cycling Home from Tanzania

Jerry Kopack [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Bike Life, a podcast from the Warmshowers Foundation. Here we celebrate our global community of touring cyclists and hosts who make life on the road unforgettable. Through stories, insights, and shared experiences, we explore the connections that fuel every journey. Whether you're pedaling across countries or welcoming travelers into your home, you're part of a movement rooted in generosity and adventure. Discover more and join the community@warmshowers.org now let's hit the road together. Hey, everyone. This is Jerry Kopeck, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the Rocky Mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. Today I'm talking with Naomi Rouse, who spent the past six years living with her family in Tanzania.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:51]:
As she prepares to wrap up her time in East Africa, Naomi's planning another big adventure, flying to Berlin and cycling with her family all the way back to their home in Bristol, uk. Along the way, she'll share the road with her kids and carry the spirit of generosity that has shaped her time in Tanzania. Naomi, welcome to Bike Life.

Naomi Rouse [00:01:09]:
Thanks a lot, Jerry.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:11]:
So I'm curious, how did you find your way to Tanzania?

Naomi Rouse [00:01:15]:
Yeah, so I was actually 18 in 1998, and I decided to go traveling before going to university. I ended up in Tanzania teaching at a rural school. And it was so different in those days. We were, you know, writing letters. There was no phone, email. I felt quite isolated. It was actually quite a hard time. And so I decided I better come back again later and kind of reap the fruits, having done the hard bit, because by the end of my time, I was pretty good at Swahili.

Naomi Rouse [00:01:44]:
So when I came back, I actually had a great time. And then Tanzania has been a huge part of my life since then. I've been coming back and forth for work for 25 years.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:51]:
Oh, wow. So it really found a place in your heart.

Naomi Rouse [00:01:54]:
Yeah. So, and then we decided we were getting a bit restless in the UK and we were looking for a solution. And then, you know, I don't know if this happens for you, but for me, it's like, bam. You know, Right. This is what we should do. So I'll just say to my husband, I've got it. Like, we should move back to Tanzania. Let's go.

Naomi Rouse [00:02:11]:
And so we did, six years ago, move with our kids, and it's been an amazing time for us.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:16]:
And he was said to you, like, yes, that's the right answer. Let's do it.

Naomi Rouse [00:02:20]:
Normally, it takes a long time. So in the. In the past, things like choosing a sofa would take about six months so you can imagine something like, you know, and once I've decided, I want to do it right now, because he needs a lot of time to turn around to it. So we're different in that way, but it works.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:38]:
Does he. Is he familiar with the. The concept of analysis paralysis? Have you heard that one?

Naomi Rouse [00:02:43]:
Yeah. For more, for him, it's more that he doesn't really like, change. And then later on, about five years after we've made a decision, he'll be like, yeah, that was a really good idea.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:51]:
Yeah. And how did the kids do it? Were they excited to go back or had they ever been there before?

Naomi Rouse [00:02:56]:
Yeah, they had been only briefly. They never lived here. I remember, actually, my son was one of my eldest. Was like, okay, I'm only going to agree to eat rice and beans once a week, maximum. And now on Wednesday nights, which are playing touch rugby. And that's something I never would have imagined doing either before living in Tanzania. And we come back and we pick up chapatis on the way, and we have beans. And when we're opening the gate, the kids are like, hey, chapati and beans, our favorite meal.

Naomi Rouse [00:03:25]:
Yes. So you can kind of adjust to anything, really.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:28]:
Well, at least they had the. The common thread of rugby. Right. Because that's a big sport in the uk.

Naomi Rouse [00:03:33]:
Well, I mean, I think it's such a big thing in the UK that people like me would never go near it, because I wouldn't dream of playing something that's got rugby in the title. But touch rugby is obviously completely different. And here there's sort of community, and it's, um. It's really nice. It's kids and adults, and it's. I'm like, definitely the weakest link. And then there's some South African guys who've been playing rugby all their lives, and. But it's very welcoming, very accommodating, and, yeah, it's good fun.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:00]:
Yeah. I mean, rugby, it's in their blood, right. It's in their DNA in so many parts of the world, especially in Africa.

Naomi Rouse [00:04:06]:
Yeah. And. But I think, yeah, this touch rugby group is, like, really epitomizes the kind of community that are lucky to live in in Tanzania, where it is really inclusive. You know, I dropped the ball for the 20th time, and no one's shouting at you. They're just saying, hey, keep going, you know, keep trying. So it's quite encouraging.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:25]:
How old are your kids?

Naomi Rouse [00:04:27]:
They are 15, 13 and 10.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:29]:
Okay, so have they made a really good community of friends there?

Naomi Rouse [00:04:34]:
Yes, yes and no. I'd say like, it's quite challenging for the older kids to find, like, local kids they can really connect with. This is quite a big gap in terms of exposure and education. But my daughter, who's 10, has got a really lovely class around her and made some really fantastic friends with Tanzanian kids.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:54]:
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned that you had picked up Swahili. Have your kids started picking up?

Naomi Rouse [00:04:59]:
They have. In fact, they're pretty good now, as certainly on comprehension, they don't speak as much. And to. To the point that we've had to switch our sweet secret language. So with. With my husband, and now if we say anything at Swahili, they can understand us. So we've started learning German for the trip. So now I could just about speak enough German for it to be our secret language if we want to say something together.

Naomi Rouse [00:05:23]:
Not in Swahili.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:25]:
I mean, think about what a cool experience as kids. So I grew up in a pretty rural part of the country in the United States, in Michigan, and. And it's mostly farm community. Really great place to grow up. But, man, just the unique diversity exposure that your kids are getting is. I'm jealous. That's amazing.

Naomi Rouse [00:05:42]:
Yeah, it's amazing to get that perspective. And I think the generosity that is in this culture so of the way people interact, you know, there's always time to interact. And they, you know, to the point that I think when they go to England, they're sometimes pleasantly surprised that people are a bit friendlier than they're kind of remembering. Obviously, the perception is that people don't talk to each other. They won't kind of stop for you. And, you know, because everything takes a bit longer. Like, you know, you pay cash for things in a. In a shop.

Naomi Rouse [00:06:15]:
It's not tills doing fast checkout. It's just a person with the, you know, getting the things from their shelves and handing over to you, having a chat. And then you pay in cash and then there's no change. So while they're going to get changed, you just carry on chatting. And the whole thing takes a lot longer. And you come to the UK and you just swipe and you're like, oh, I feel like I've missed something.

Jerry Kopack [00:06:33]:
It's just very transactional. Right. So I have to confess, I've been really looking forward to our conversation for a while because I've spent some time in that part of Africa. Not Tanzania, but in Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, and also Madagascar. Have you traveled much outside of Tanzania over your time?

Naomi Rouse [00:06:53]:
I have been to Zambia, and I do think that Zambia is probably the most similar to Tanzania of those countries that you mentioned. So. And we're in a kind of. We're in the interior in Iringa. It's really beautiful. It's a. It's a relaxed but kind of vibrant town. We don't have all the craziness of the big city, and we love that we're up in the mountains.

Naomi Rouse [00:07:17]:
So it's nice and cool because actually, it's getting hot in Tanzania these days. Like, it's getting hotter due to climate change. And when we're at 1,600 meters and it's 30 degrees, we know that everybody else on the coast is really suffering. You know, down at sea level.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:34]:
It's 30 degrees up there at that altitude.

Naomi Rouse [00:07:37]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:37]:
Wow.

Naomi Rouse [00:07:38]:
So it's unusually hot, like, sometimes like that, but it's averages around 25 degrees every day throughout the whole year. It's amazing place to live.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:48]:
Yeah. So for. So for the small part of the world who doesn't understand the Celsius spectrum, that's probably like in the mid 90 degrees Fahrenheit, which is really hot to be that altitude, which is somewhere in the 5, 000 foot range. That's. That's hot. Yeah.

Naomi Rouse [00:08:03]:
And you're.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:04]:
And you're nowhere near the. The Serengeti either, then, are you?

Naomi Rouse [00:08:07]:
No, we're in the south. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:08]:
Okay, gotcha. So talk to me about the. The culture you talked to a little bit about your town and how it's vibrant and colorful. Like rice and beans. Chapati. Is that the kind of like the staple dish? When people think of Tanzania like, this is the food.

Naomi Rouse [00:08:24]:
I mean, let's just be honest. No one comes to Tanzania for the food, but you get used to it, and it becomes kind of satisfying and fulfilling, you know? But I would definitely say for cyclists, it's a great place to come. And, I mean, I started running, and I love the fact that people will kind of encourage you when you go out for a run. Everybody will be like, hey, well done. You know, you're going and doing exercise and on a bike, it's even more kind of surprising. And we just signed up as hosts on Warmshowers because obviously we're hoping to benefit from some hospitality when we go to Germany, but we. We'd really love to host people here as well. We've got some amazing places, and one place that we love going is a little cabin that we built out of town, and it's in Miombo Woodland.

Naomi Rouse [00:09:12]:
You may not have heard of Miombo, but look it up, because it's Quite interesting. It's a. A type of woodland which is really common across this whole region. And it's sort of. What would you call it, kind of messy, scraggy, like lots of different species and. But just absolutely beautiful. And our cabin is just in the middle of this. It's just 16 kilometers out of town.

Naomi Rouse [00:09:34]:
So we cycle there up some quite steep hills, dusty, sandy. It's quite challenging, actually, for our kids. So we're kind of thinking, well, if they can do this up these steep hills and on the sand, it's going to be fine to do 40, 50k in Europe on tarmac. But at the cabin, we just get away from it all because we don't have any electricity and there's a few baboons around and. Yeah, and we have a tradition as well of. So we cook on the fire, enjoy a sunset beer, and then we would read a book together as a family. And this is actually where the idea for the bike ride all started at the cabin, because we loved reading books by Alastair Humphries. And the first one we read was the Boy who Biked around the World.

Naomi Rouse [00:10:20]:
And we were like, that's cool. Like, we just love reading about this kind of thing. And then we read a book called Grand Adventures and basically you've read it. I love that book so much. And I just read it and I was like, right, this is what we've got to do. Well, let's. Let's go home by bike. So we can't really cycle.

Naomi Rouse [00:10:39]:
The most amazing thing, of course, would be to cycle all the way home, but then you'd have to go through South Sudan and so on is just a bit more adventurous than we can handle with our family. So first we thought, okay, let's fly to the nearest place in Europe. Let's fly to Southern Italy and then cycle back from there. But we're going in the summer now. We think it's going to be a bit too hot. So that's where we came up with the idea of Berlin. And so, yes, the whole idea was born in the cabin and I think it kind of really expresses it for us because that's where we sort of get away from it all, connect as a family and dream up these crazy adventures.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:17]:
I think that sounds like a fantastic adventure just for your family. But I also want to hear more about just this amazing cabin that you have often in the bush. Like, is there a. Is there a distinct rainy season, like a time when you. When people shouldn't maybe come to Tanzania?

Naomi Rouse [00:11:35]:
Yeah. So actually, I mean, we still go there in the rainy season. People often ask when's the best time to come? And I. I don't really know how to answer because I just love it every single day of the year. But there is quite strong rain between January and April. But then that's an amazing time to come because it's so green. Because right now, you know, we haven't had any rain since April. It's quite dry, so.

Naomi Rouse [00:11:59]:
And in fact, at the cabin, it's absolutely amazing when there's a downpour. One time, there's a little stream we have to cross. And my husband had always said that he wanted to go and see what it was like when the rain comes, you know, so he went out there. We were kind of sheltering because it was crazy intense rain. He went out in his pants to go and see the. The stream, but then he made the mistake of crossing over and getting stuck on the other side in the rain because. Because it was such, you know, we'd normally just step over it, but it was so high he couldn't get back over. And then he was like, oh, yeah, didn't think of that.

Naomi Rouse [00:12:30]:
Get back across because it just comes down in buckets.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:33]:
Right?

Naomi Rouse [00:12:35]:
That's right, yeah. And of course, you know, that's four months of rain that lasts that, you know, basically we survive on for the entire year.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:42]:
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Because now it's. It's essentially spring coming into your summer, right?

Naomi Rouse [00:12:48]:
Yeah, that's right.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:49]:
Okay. And then it's gonna. So it's been dry up until this point.

Naomi Rouse [00:12:53]:
Yeah. So there's three. Where we are, there's three seasons in the year. So there's the rainy season, and then when, as soon as the rain stops, it's quite distinctive here in Oringa, where we are. And then the wind and the cold starts. So, interestingly, you know something about the temperatures. But this part of Tanzania is known as. If you talk to any Tanzanian from the rest of the country, they're oh, so cold in Iringa, you know, and it does get quite chilly at this altitude at night.

Naomi Rouse [00:13:17]:
So it can get down to about 6 degrees in the winter. So that windy, windy, cold time is May, June, July, August, September. It's still quite windy, but starting to get hotter. So then these months, it's really quite hot. Like this week, we have had 30 degrees on some days, but really most of the time it's this very nice 25.

Jerry Kopack [00:13:38]:
That sounds quite enjoyable. Do you ever. Do you ever see snow from here?

Naomi Rouse [00:13:44]:
There is actually. Obviously there's snow on Kilimanjaro but in the neighboring region, which is even higher and goes up to 2,600 meters, they very occasionally do get snowier.

Jerry Kopack [00:13:55]:
Have you spent any time over, like, near Kilimanjaro trekking around there?

Naomi Rouse [00:14:00]:
Not so much, no. We just more exploring around around here. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:04]:
Okay. Yeah. Because all I really know, which is not that much about Tanzania, is, of course, Serengeti and Kilimanjaro. So I'm. I'm always curious to. To hear if people have climbed Kilimanjaro or just trekked around there or maybe crossed into the Serengeti.

Naomi Rouse [00:14:19]:
Have.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:19]:
Have you spent much time near the Serengeti?

Naomi Rouse [00:14:22]:
Yeah, so, in fact, we have an amazing national park very near to us in Oringa. So we don't even know to go there up there where all the crowds are. You know, there have been these crazy scenes circulating on social media of hundreds of cars chasing the migration. You know, it's actually just got a bit out of control. And when we go on safari to Ruaha national park, we can see two or three other cars. Cars in two days.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:49]:
Oh, wow.

Naomi Rouse [00:14:50]:
So, yeah. And actually, there's one example of an amazing experience that our children have been able to have. So, you know, it costs a bit to go on safari, so we don't do it very often, but we were thinking, how could we get them to have more of these experiences, you know, on a cheaper budget? And we connected with a guide trainer just outside the park, and he has a little guiding school and asked if the kids could come along and join it. And then they go on safari walks in the morning. So they're just outside the park. They see a lot of animals anyway, but then they see all the tracks, and it brings you up close. They had this kind of new appreciation of the. Of the tracks and the poo.

Naomi Rouse [00:15:27]:
And they're like, really? It's really amazing. Like, it's. It's fascinating. They bought a book, but they. Last time they went, they made plaster cast, like prints as. And they had. And they got a leopard and a batted fox and everything. And it's.

Naomi Rouse [00:15:41]:
It's just great. Yeah. You know. You know, you can do that on a school trip back home.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:45]:
So.

Naomi Rouse [00:15:46]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:46]:
So what kind of animals are common to see on a safari?

Naomi Rouse [00:15:51]:
So you'll always see elephants, giraffes, lions. If you're lucky, you'll see leopards, zebra. You'll often see hippos, crocodiles. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:04]:
I was. I was so fortunate when I was in Botswana and also Zimbabwe to be able to go on safari. Or a game drive, I think they called it. And I remember the first time I saw an elephant. And of course, you know, as a kid, we. You see elephants on TV or in a magazine, but when you see them real life, it's unbelievable how huge and intimidating they are. And people talk about. I'm worried about lions.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:32]:
And what I was told is that elephants and I think probably hippos are far more dangerous to people than lions are.

Naomi Rouse [00:16:40]:
And buffalo are really quite dangerous as well. But when, when they were doing the tracking, that's one thing they really enjoyed was because when you put your foot in an elephant's footprint, you do really appreciate the size, you know, size. They didn't manage to get a cast of the elephant footprints. They're just too big.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:58]:
Yeah. And then like a giraffe. Right. Just how, how tall they are. It's just, you can't, you can't get a perspective of until you're in their presence. Like, it's, it's incredible.

Naomi Rouse [00:17:11]:
They also have, you've probably heard of the Big five. And then there's the, the, I don't know, they call it the like mini 5, which are. Is a joke. So it's like an ant lion instead of a lion. It's just a little insect. And there's this. I can't remember them all, but I mean, the, the creepy crawlies, they are something that are kind of more to be scared of in a way. We, we've had quite big problems with scorpions in our beach.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:37]:
Really?

Naomi Rouse [00:17:38]:
Yeah. And before we had electricity there, we'd go on a nightly kind of check with a UV torch because, you know when it's dark and you don't want to step on one. Yeah. So.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:51]:
So shake out your shoes in the morning. Right.

Naomi Rouse [00:17:54]:
He's definitely, definitely shaking our shoes. And then we had a puff adder as well in the house and a cobra in our garden here in town. Wait, what? People off coming.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:05]:
What was the other one you said before? Cobra. What is that?

Naomi Rouse [00:18:10]:
That's another type of snake. They're actually quite dangerous.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:13]:
Wow. Okay. So not to deter any travelers, just awareness. Right. Yeah.

Naomi Rouse [00:18:22]:
So. But I would definitely say if anyone's thinking about a trip to Tanzania, like, we'd love to host you as a Warmshowers host. And the cabin is absolutely perfect for, for cyclists. But we've also got a place in town where we live and got extra accommodation and place in the beach as well. So we'd really love to share that university. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:42]:
So I know that the, the popular route, the Cairo to Cape goes right through Tanzania. Do you, do you see a fair bit of cyclists coming through on that route?

Naomi Rouse [00:18:50]:
Yeah. So it does go through. I have met only two cyclists coming through. It actually comes through where I live. Okay. And years ago when I lived here in 2001, a cyclist came through, in fact, and he was on his way up from South Africa. He was doing a project to retrace the footsteps of man across the world. But he got to Dar, joined the yacht club and never left.

Naomi Rouse [00:19:16]:
So in Dar es Salaam, so he never made his full journey. But going the other way, Cape Town to Cairo, we, we were in town and my husband said, hey, look at that guy. He really looks like he's doing a long distance. Let's invite him in. You know, he looks really dirty and he's not carrying anything. He must be like alongside longdistance cyclist. And he came to stay with us because obviously it's great when you can get inspiration from other people's adventures. And he was a Dutch Marine Corps guy and he had so little with him.

Naomi Rouse [00:19:48]:
I mean, he had a sleeping bag, he didn't have a tent, he had a half mat and he just wanted to go as light as possible. I think he had one coat. That was it. And he was doing this journey for months. We're like, well, this is hardcore. You know, he decided to trade off, you know, having fun on his bike.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:06]:
Yeah.

Naomi Rouse [00:20:06]:
Versus getting a bit cold and wet sometimes.

Jerry Kopack [00:20:11]:
I mean, there's something to be said for being minimalist. I've seen cyclists kind of set up both ways. People very, very minimalist, like the person you're referencing, and then people who have huge panniers on the front and the back. I met an Italian cyclist years ago who was carrying like a mini espresso machine, which to me seems not minimalist whatsoever. But I guess the Italians like their espresso, so that, that was kind of funny.

Naomi Rouse [00:20:39]:
I think we're also, you know, very much thinking about what do we take on our trip. So we're, we're, we're leaving Tanzania next year in June. And as I mentioned, we've got this idea of going through Germany and it's obviously really impractical. Moving back to Europe from living abroad for seven years and doing it by bike. That's ridicul idea logistically, but it's also fantastic in terms of avoiding the anti climax that's going to come from going back. Right. So we've got this great adventure to finish it all off, but obviously it's a lot easier for us to get the kit we need in Europe. So various guests will be visiting us.

Naomi Rouse [00:21:15]:
We're bidding on ebay, you know, so they can bring us out the things that we need before next June.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:20]:
Yeah, I was going to ask, if you don't, don't mind me asking, what's, why are you leaving Tanzania?

Naomi Rouse [00:21:27]:
Yeah, well, our eldest is actually going to A levels in the uk, so.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:34]:
And what is A levels?

Naomi Rouse [00:21:36]:
Oh, that's. Sorry. The last two years of secondary school.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:38]:
Okay. Just wanted to confirm. I thought that's what it was, but just wanted to make sure. Are they, are the kids excited to leave?

Naomi Rouse [00:21:46]:
I think they accept that life is anywhere and there's loads of advantages of being here and advantages of going back.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:55]:
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Naomi Rouse [00:22:41]:
Without a doubt. I say Iringa, where we live, just partly because of the climate, because everywhere else is so hot and in the mountains it's beautiful and just, it's just a sweet spot of where you can enjoy the culture. I think without. Because in the more touristy areas, like, for example, near the Serengeti, you just get a little bit more hassle as a tourist. Or Zanzibar, I mean, those are amazing places to visit, but I think if you want a sort of more engaged experience, then coming into the interior is really great. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:12]:
The more authentic, the more real Tanzania, right? Yeah.

Naomi Rouse [00:23:16]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:16]:
Which I, which I think from my experience and other people I've talked to, is the real beauty of traveling by bike. Like you can. I've talked about this before on the show. You can take a plane or a bus and end up at these amazing places like, like Kilimanjaro. But when you travel by bicycle to smaller places, you. You see that the true culture, the beauty of the real people on the ground, not just the places where there are tour guides waiting to show you around or to sell you T shirts. Right?

Naomi Rouse [00:23:45]:
Yeah, exactly. I Mean, to give you an idea, like, when we go to the cabin, we always stop in the village shop. You know, we know people while there, they'll always have a chat with us and they're kind of in the bar drinking home brew and everything. We'll stop and pick up a few drinks and bananas and things to support the local shop. And it's, it's just nice. Like, you can. You. You just can't have that experience in the more touristy areas.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:09]:
So what do you think you're going to miss most when you finally pack up and leave?

Naomi Rouse [00:24:14]:
Oh, my goodness. It's sun and people, really, it's. It's the ease of the way people interact. You know, when you walk down the street, you just hear people chatting and laughing together. And it's not that I have like an overly pessimistic view of Europe, but just people just don't laugh as much, you know, they can't. It just isn't sort of the time to stand on the street and just have a chat and have a laugh with someone you don't know. So I'll definitely miss that ease that comes. And I think also people are quite uptight about things and stressed in Europe, even though they have actually much less to be stressed about than people here.

Naomi Rouse [00:24:51]:
You know, a lot of stuff happens here. People are under a lot of pressure all the time to solve problems with a limited income. You know, someone's sick and this has happened and you haven't got any of the social protections, but people just deal with it and, you know, Right. It's just another problem to be solved. What are we going to do? Whereas in Europe, you really get stressed out that things didn't go the way you wanted them to go. And I don't know, that's, that's, that's quite stressful to be around people like that. Like, there's, there's an ease that comes with people just kind of saying, this is just life. Let's.

Naomi Rouse [00:25:23]:
Let's just get on with it, you know?

Jerry Kopack [00:25:25]:
Yeah, I found that fascinating as well. And in places where people have just more, more money, more technology, more ease of living, that they somehow. It's easier to make their life more stressful, more complex than other places where life is simpler.

Naomi Rouse [00:25:44]:
Exactly right. And also we feel totally overwhelmed by the consumerism in Europe. In fact, it was my daughter's birthday the other day and we, we gave her a box of cereal, which is a massive treat because cereal is really expensive here, really, and a box of chocolates, and we had a Full English breakfast. And then we went out for pizza in the evening. And that's her birthday. She was delighted. You know, like, that was great. Like, that's, that's what it means when you're away from all that stuff, that some of those small treats really make a difference and you really appreciate them.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:16]:
Yeah. Whereas kids in maybe Western Europe or North America, maybe for their birthday, they're wanting that new video game or that new iPad or something like that. Right. Which is not in anywhere near the same as like a box of cereal or pizza. Right, exactly.

Naomi Rouse [00:26:34]:
They do really appreciate it. And they don't need anything. They don't really want anything, you know, because they've got everything they need.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:40]:
What do you think that culture shock is going to be like for your kids?

Naomi Rouse [00:26:44]:
I know, I think, I think they probably will adapt easier than us. We did actually come back for six months to spend some time with family and it was a bit of a taster session to sort of see what it's like. I think the thing I find really hard is that you look normal. So people look at you and you think, okay, maybe you've just moved to this town from down the road, you know, and they don't realize what you're kind of going through internally, that you feel like you're in a different planet completely. But because you look like you fit in, then they, they don't realize what you're going through, culture shock wise.

Jerry Kopack [00:27:18]:
Yeah, I, I can think back because I've done some bike packing trips that were up to about two years, but that was just traveling around from city to city, country to country, and it was an amazing experience. I' so grateful for it, but I never actually settled into a completely new culture for six years. I mean, that's. That changes you. Right. So I know that when I came back from my trip, I. I experienced some pretty serious culture shock and I can't even imagine what's going to be like coming from another country where you had lived and established connections and friendships and. Wow.

Naomi Rouse [00:27:53]:
Actually I've seen a few people go back after sort of 20 years and I feel really sorry for them because I think that is really hard, you know, and, and of course, you know, while we've changed probably for the better in all the things that we've gained and I think I'm a bit more courageous. I don't think I would have done this bike ride, for example. I think I'm more open minded and just got a. Yeah, definitely different view on life. Even though I had, of course, already Been working in Tanzania for quite a long time and lived here for three years before. But this time it's been longer and deeper and, you know, we've kind of changed for the better and I think in our outlook. And then we're moving back to the uk, where I think things have really changed quite significantly for the worse in the last six years as well with COVID And I think young people are really suffering from quite high levels of anxiety. You know, there's cost of living pressures, there's kind of a political breakdown, like.

Naomi Rouse [00:28:45]:
Yeah, I think things have changed for us. So the gap is even bigger, basically. And of course, kids on screen time and lack of social connection and all of that. So the gap is even wider, maybe. But then that's maybe be our job to just bring a bit of that and share it as we can.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:01]:
Yeah. I'm guessing that in Tanzania there's not as much screen time and people are more connected to. To their neighbors in the community. Yeah, that's.

Naomi Rouse [00:29:11]:
People are on their phones a lot and there isn't yet a kind of culture that we have, which is that if you're in company that you do put your phone down so people can just sit in company with. On their phones and stuff. So there is still that problem. It's just that kids won't have as many access to, you know, devices, obviously. Yeah, not outside urban areas for sure.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:32]:
So I want to pivot, if we can, and talk about your next adventure, this, this trip back home. Are your family. Are. Are. Are you guys cyclists? Are your kids looking forward to this? Are they fighting you on this? Do you. Do you. Do you anticipate any challenges?

Naomi Rouse [00:29:50]:
So it's completely mixed. My eldest is a really keen cyclist and in fact, the other day on Sunday, we were like, okay, let's go for a ride this morning. Let's go on a different route. And he's like, right, let's go up to the masts. And it's a good ride, you know, and then even. And I was like, it's quite tough for the little ones, you know, he's like, no, he loves it. So. And it's very, very steep up to the top of the other side of the valley.

Naomi Rouse [00:30:11]:
And. And I was slightly regretting it. He. He wasn't regretting it at all. So it reminded me of how keen he is on it. Like, there's no problem. Yeah, he. We were doing some 50k rides, but we went back to the UK for that, that visit.

Naomi Rouse [00:30:24]:
And then there's my youngest, who has got a really positive attitude about everything. There she is, kind of battling at the last, you know, she's only 10, so she's always sort of at the back and pushing her bike up the hills and she's still smiling. She might be struggling a bit, but she doesn't complain. And then there's my middle one, who's out and out, decided he really doesn't want to do it and that he has agreed to do it as long as we don't do too many training rides. That my sister said, stage a rescue mission to get him from Berlin. They're kind of imagining him kind of with a banner on the back, Please help.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:59]:
I don't want to be here.

Naomi Rouse [00:31:02]:
I don't want to be here. And we're just hoping that he'll just enjoy it anyway and that, you know, we'll have good food and we'll encourage him. And it will be a bit easier than on the terrain here because it is quite challenging on this sort of slippery gravel. You know, uphill is hard work and then downhill is also terrifying because it's just all the dusty roads. You've done this kind of thing, I'm sure, you know, but, you know, but it's quite. Yeah, it's quite challenging. So I think Germany should be quite straightforward.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:28]:
Yeah, I feel like if they can get their, Their grit and their toughness about them by riding the local roads in Tanzania, then once you get to Germany, like, I mean, it's going to be easy, right? All the tarmac roads, I mean, Germany is famous for the autobahns, so it's going to be a breeze for those kids. I mean, it's going to feel so much easier than what they're used to.

Naomi Rouse [00:31:48]:
And in fact, someone said to me the other day, he's wildlife research and does a lot of work in this local national park and sort of living in the bushes, it's just second nature to him. And then he's teamed up with a friend and they were cycling around Scotland and he hasn't done much cycling. Instead, it was a brilliant combination because his friend knows all the cycling and he. For the wild camping, it's just like second nature for him. And I was thinking about this Warmshowers combination with, you know, if you could be wild camping in the rural areas and then your Warmshowers in the. In the urban areas, it's absolutely fantastic. You've got all areas covered, basically. And I think the camping would have been more daunting for us before we lived here, but, you know, just roughing it without electricity or Water or whatever's pretty easy for us now.

Naomi Rouse [00:32:38]:
So that bit. That bit's fine. Yeah, yeah, we've learned how to do that.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:43]:
So you've hosted how many cyclists in Tanzania?

Naomi Rouse [00:32:48]:
Well, you see, only the one that we went up to that was nothing to do with Warmshowers. We just said, hey, we'd love you to come and stay with us and tell us about your. What you're doing, you know, so we just registered now because we just learned about it in preparation for our trip. So we'd really love to host. Anyone coming through Tanzania would be fantastic. Come and inspire us with your journey.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:08]:
I love it. Are you excited to be on the other side of that and experience what being hosted is like?

Naomi Rouse [00:33:14]:
Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, for me there's this kind of asymmetry because we wouldn't think twice about hosting people. Like, for us, it's, like, so rewarding and it's such a small thing. You can offer someone, right? You've got a spare room and they're coming through. But then when you're on the receiving end, you feel like, wow, that's such a big thing. Would anyone really do that? For me, that's amazing. So. So I can't believe that people would be willing to do that.

Naomi Rouse [00:33:36]:
But that's fantastic. Like, it's going to make a massive difference to our trip because obviously we'll be on a tight budget and also we love meeting people. And that is another part of the joy of it, isn't it? You know that you're going to have a much more rich experience when you can meet people locally and they can help you on your way. And especially that's why, you know, we're learning German. Obviously, we know lots of people will speak excellent English, but we'd love to properly be able to communicate in German. So that will be another reason for wanting to be hosted.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:05]:
God, I love that. And what month are you setting off?

Naomi Rouse [00:34:08]:
June.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:09]:
June. Okay, so technically, winter where you are. And what does that look like in June? Yeah, exactly.

Naomi Rouse [00:34:16]:
So it's those cold nights, but the warm days.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:19]:
Okay, right. But back in Germany, it's going to be full summer and long days and plenty of warmth, right?

Naomi Rouse [00:34:27]:
Yes. The light evenings will be lovely because here it gets dark at seven no matter what. So throughout the whole year, there's not much difference because we're quite close to the equator.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:37]:
Yeah, of course. So what do you think you're looking forward to getting back to sea and say, the uk, like, old friends, family?

Naomi Rouse [00:34:46]:
Yeah, definitely. Absolutely. That's a big Reason for coming back. And I can't wait to see the kids in school because at the moment, our boys living homeschooled and it's. It's fine, but it's not ideal. They'd be better off being in school, but there isn't really a good secondary school here for them and so that's going to be great. And just seeing them kind of getting stuck into that and of course, a bit more independence. Because here, one of the great things is we've had loads of time as a family and we've, I think, really managed to extend their childhood a bit more.

Naomi Rouse [00:35:17]:
You know, like our eldest, who's, you know, going to be 16 in November, he hasn't got a mobile phone yet and everything, so he'll just, you know, he'll get a mobile phone when we get back. He'll have his friends, he'll be able to go out and so feel like he'll be really stepping out into a bit more kind of independence, so. Because in some ways they're quite independent here. You can go off and do things like he goes down and works with a local welder and he's building a go kart and stuff and he's talking to Ms. Freely. And so all of that is just great, like different opportunities, but the sort of normal teenage opportunities he hasn't really had. So that's going to be great for them, see them growing in that way.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:53]:
Yeah. Do you think you guys will host when you get back home to Bristol?

Naomi Rouse [00:35:56]:
Definitely, yeah, we will. I'm sure we'd love to do that. And also, you know, hopefully get touring ourselves in the uk, because obviously there's some brilliant places to explore as well. We just have to get used to the cold and the rain.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:08]:
Right. You'll probably have to buy some new gear, Right?

Naomi Rouse [00:36:11]:
Yeah, exactly. That's it. There's, as they say, there's no such thing as bad weather, is it? Isn't it? Only bad clothes.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:17]:
Yes, I've heard that.

Naomi Rouse [00:36:18]:
And actually, when we went back, we went in the winter and I was playing touch rugby out, you know, in the dark and the wind and the rain in your face. And it's just. Obviously it's horrible when you've had six years of summer, but it kind of makes you realize that the only way to deal with cold weather is to get out in it and just get out there and be active. That's the only way to cope with it. If you huddle up inside, then you never leave the house.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:41]:
Yeah, right. I mean, think about the People who live in the UK or in Amsterdam or in places like in America, like up in Portland or Seattle, where it just, it rains a good chunk of the year and if you never got out, like, you would never leave your house because of the rain. So at some point, like, you know what, this is just the way it is. I'm going to put on some, some rainproof jacket and pants and this is life.

Naomi Rouse [00:37:05]:
I think I looked it up, the difference in rainfall from Moringa and Bristol. I think it was three times as many days in the raining.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:14]:
But I wonder if the rainy season, does that make up for the total volume of rain that you get throughout the year, just in that one concentrated period?

Naomi Rouse [00:37:24]:
Volum. Compare, you know. Okay, but in terms of disruption, like, it's, it's. I, I think it's more, more disruptive. It's spread out of the year because at least in the rainy season it gets. It's fully disrupted, but then it's just done and it's kind of exciting in its own way. And by the time you get to the rainy season, you are kind of longing to see a bit of green, longing to feel so dusty, longing to feel a bit of water, you know. But I think we've talked a lot about the weather.

Naomi Rouse [00:37:49]:
It's that English thing probably.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:52]:
Yeah. So it sounds like everyone is mostly excited for your trip. It's going to be a cool adventure. Definitely going to be some, some tears shed probably when you, when you leave your home country right now. Right. I guess this is your home country, been there for six years, right?

Naomi Rouse [00:38:08]:
Yeah, it basically is. I think we won't cry. I think we'll be excited. I think Also in my 20s, when I was coming back and forth for work, you know, I'd. I'd be in the airport, I'd be ringing my closest friends, saying, you know, I'm off now and, you know, don't know when I'm going to see you again or. And then I just kept coming back and I realized there was never a goodbye for me in Tanzania. So I'm really hoping it's just part of our lives forever. We'll have reasons to come back.

Naomi Rouse [00:38:34]:
I'm actually doing a PhD at the moment and I'll need to be coming back for my work. And that's another thing that I'm looking forward to when I go back because I'm at Bristol, so I'll be able to get stuck in with my colleagues and actually be at the university in person as well. So there's always, there's Always things to look forward to. You create your opportunities.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:51]:
Yeah. And for some reason, I expect that your family will at least get back to visit Tanzania at some point in the near future. It sounds like you've made some really good connections there.

Naomi Rouse [00:39:03]:
And I think they've realized how much fun they can have. Like, my eldest, you know, says, oh, yeah, I really want a V8. And I'm older because that's like the coolest car. And I'll be driving through the bush. And they do actually do quite a bit of off road driving because, you know, when we're sort of on tracks, there's no, there's no cars around. So they can, they can drive these, you know, off road, like Land Cruisers and things. It's great fun for them.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:26]:
That's gonna be a lot different than the tiny, little narrow, windy roads in, in the uk, right?

Naomi Rouse [00:39:31]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:34]:
Well, Naomi, I want to thank you so much for spending some time with me today and sharing your stories about how wonderful Tanzania is. How can our listeners follow along with what you're up to, your journeys? Any way we can see pictures of Tanzania?

Naomi Rouse [00:39:47]:
Yeah, sure. Well, they should definitely connect on Warmshowers if they want to come and stay. Yes, I am on LinkedIn, but obviously I'm posting more about work. But you will get a few insights. Tanzania as well. But do reach out. Like, you'll find me online.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:03]:
Yeah, excellent. I love that. So I want to thank everyone for listening to my conversation today with Naomi Rouse. If you enjoy our show, give us a, like a share in your social channels or really just tell your friends and then go see the guys down in Tanzania as well. These stories hopefully will inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller, one pedal stroke at a time. Until then, keep the wheels rolling and the story's coming. Thanks for joining us on Bike Life. I'm Jerry Kopak and I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we enjoyed sharing it with you.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:38]:
Please leave us a rating and review or do just tell your friends. This helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world to learn more or become part of this amazing community. Visit us@warmshowers.org or follow us on Instagram at warmshowers. Org. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a question you'd like us to explore, email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.