Bridging Worlds by Bike

Jerry Kopack [00:00:02]:
Welcome to Bike Life, a podcast from the Warmshowers Foundation. Here we celebrate our global community of touring cyclists and hosts who make life on the road unforgettable. Through stories, insights and shared experiences, we explore the connections that fuel every journey. Whether you're pedaling across countries or welcoming travelers into your home, you're part of a movement rooted in generosity and adventure. Discover more and join the community@warmshowers.org now let's hit the road together. Hey, everyone, this is Jerry Kopeck, the host of Bike Life, coming to you from the Rocky Mountains of Breckenridge, Colorado. I have a pretty fun story today that I think you guys are going to like. Matthias Schwartz, an Italian cyclist, rode his bike from Italy all the way to Iran for his best friend's wedding and then cycle back, passing through Saudi Arabia.

Jerry Kopack [00:00:59]:
He's going to share an incredible story of adventure, connection, and his deep love for the Middle East. Matthias, welcome to Bike Life.

Matthias Schwartz [00:01:06]:
Hello. Welcome. Hi. Thank you, Jerry.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:10]:
Now, I'm curious, where does this idea come from to cycle all the way to Iran?

Matthias Schwartz [00:01:16]:
Actually, it was not the original idea. It. Originally I planned to go to Mongolia and I want to cross all of the Stan countries because as many cyclists, I was interested in cycling the highest mountains in the world. But my best friend, he anticipated his wedding and then I had to change plans and so I went to Iran instead.

Jerry Kopack [00:01:44]:
It's a pretty good friend. How did you guys meet?

Matthias Schwartz [00:01:47]:
Actually, he's Italian like myself. He's from the. We are from the same town. But he has been to Iran already several times and he met an Iranian girl and that's why he married her then. And he married her in Iran.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:02]:
Interesting.

Matthias Schwartz [00:02:04]:
Yes.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:04]:
Where were you? Were you already on your route when you pivoted and made your way towards Iran?

Matthias Schwartz [00:02:13]:
Yes and no. At some point it was in Bulgaria or Turkey. I figured that I'm not, I cannot make it to Iran if I. If I go, if I go to Mongolia first. And so I decided to take it easy and enjoy the. The ride and go to Iran instead. Also in 2022, you have to like still covet was going on and so a lot of the land borders were closed. Also that made it more, more, more easy for me to decide to change the route.

Jerry Kopack [00:02:47]:
Ah. Based on which borders were.

Matthias Schwartz [00:02:49]:
Yeah. For instance, the border between Georgia and Azerbaijan, the land border was still closed, so you couldn't cross that. And yeah, so it was different factors, several factors that made me decide to go to Iran. And in the end.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:08]:
Did your friend think that you Were crazy. Wanting to cycle all the way to his wedding.

Matthias Schwartz [00:03:14]:
Not so much. We have been doing some crazy stuff before. So I think he enjoyed a lot when he was. Because I was also the best man at his wedding then.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:24]:
So a bit of pressure to show up there and be on time.

Matthias Schwartz [00:03:28]:
Yes. I performed a song there in front of the reunions. You did? Yeah, I rewrote a popular song, like, to make it match to the story of the couple, and then I performed it.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:43]:
An Italian song?

Matthias Schwartz [00:03:45]:
No, it's actually a German song. Because your German speech.

Jerry Kopack [00:03:49]:
Got it. Got it. So he didn't think that you were crazy when you showed up? He kind of was like, yeah, that's. That sounds like Matthias. He would do something like this.

Matthias Schwartz [00:03:58]:
Yeah, because the year before this trip, I went all the way from Italy to Ukraine and back. So he knew already that I'm into cycling and. Yes.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:10]:
Okay.

Matthias Schwartz [00:04:10]:
Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:04:12]:
So I'm looking at a map. Talk about this route, because you've done some big things, but this. This is a big route. So, like, how many kilometers, how long were you on the road and which countries were you going through?

Matthias Schwartz [00:04:24]:
All in all, I was on the road about 17 months, like going there and coming back. And I do not. I didn't use a speedometer, so this. A speedometer. So I didn't. I don't have the exact kilometer count, but it is roughly. It was roughly 20,000 kilometers. Oh, yes.

Matthias Schwartz [00:04:47]:
And the countries I crossed, it must have been 20 countries. Like in Europe, obviously there was a lot of countries because they're so small. So I crossed Slovenia in one day. But then once I got out of Europe, it was Turkey, Georgia, Armenia, Iran. Then I went to the uae and from there, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Palestine, Israel, Cyprus, and back to Turkey all the way. So it's pretty much a round trip. Yeah, very round.

Jerry Kopack [00:05:26]:
Wow, that's big. So you traveled from Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Middle East. Turkey is kind of somewhere in the middle of Europe and Middle East. What were some of the cultural differences you noticed?

Matthias Schwartz [00:05:45]:
Actually, I noticed more similarities than difference, at least at the first sight, because that's something I enjoy about cycling so much that you can see that the territories, like each territory, they are different, but only a little different. So. And you can see that the rat. How do you say you can see that there was. That they. Sometimes they belong together. For instance, when talking about the Balkans, you can definitely still feel the influence of the Ottoman Empire there. And for instance, when it comes to food, like you find burek, which is a traditional Balkan dish, you find it all across the Balkan, but you will find it also in Turkey.

Matthias Schwartz [00:06:34]:
I'm really interested in these similarities and that's why I cycle. Because if you hop on a plane and go from, I don't know, from Italy to Greece, you miss all this. And also here in Italy, I live in this German speaking region. And if you go further east, they will speak Italian. But you still can see that once this was the Austrian, Austrian Empire, that once this all belonged to the Austrian Empire because there's still writings in German, but also because of the shops they have and all of kind of this stuff.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:08]:
Yeah. Something you said just a minute ago really speaks to me because it's something that I've noticed a lot in my travels. Your point was that if you just take a plane from place to place, you miss these things. And that's really why we travel by bicycle. Because, yeah, you can end up in Italy, you can end up in Iran, you can end up in England, but you miss all those experiences, those people, those connections along the way, those, those cultural unique things from the small towns and villages. So talk to me more about that some of the people you met along the way.

Matthias Schwartz [00:07:43]:
I, I actually would just like to, to, to speak one moment more about these similarities.

Jerry Kopack [00:07:48]:
Sure.

Matthias Schwartz [00:07:49]:
Like for instance, in, in the, in the whole of the East, Eastern Europe and also Turkey and Iran, they have this, this, this thing about the public fountains. And in Turkey they call them Chechen. And I don't know, I think in the Balkans it's the same, but it's like everywhere you have these public fountains and a lot of the times they're built in honor of somebody or something. So if somebody dies, for instance, and you can find it everywhere, and in Ukraine or Romania, for instance, you will see a lot of cars that go there specifically to these fountains because they know that this is good, really good water. And, and, and that's something you find, you don't find in Italy. We have these public fountains, but they're very different. And so this is a, a similar, a similarity that spreads from Eastern Europe all the way to Iran. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:42]:
So public fountains for drinking.

Matthias Schwartz [00:08:44]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Public fountains for drinking.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:47]:
I've seen that.

Matthias Schwartz [00:08:48]:
One of the, one of the most important things for cyclists, like something that you, you will pay a lot of attention to.

Jerry Kopack [00:08:55]:
Yeah, I remember seeing that in Albania and also in Switzerland too. So you saw in other places.

Matthias Schwartz [00:09:02]:
Yeah, but what is specific is that I think that what I found on the Balkans, for instance, and also in Iran is that a lot of these fountains are built in Honor of somebody that died, like, yeah, because. And that's something we don't do here, for example. Correct. And I think actually this is a very, very cool tradition that somebody dies and in his honor, there's something gives life. Is there something built that gives life again in this center, in this circumstance? Water.

Jerry Kopack [00:09:33]:
So I love that. I wish that was more, more standard, more, more normal in other places because you're right, it's like even though someone has died, that person's spirit, their, their, their personality, whatever, is going to continue on in the future and continue to give life, to give water to people going, ah, man, that gives me goosebumps. I love that.

Matthias Schwartz [00:10:00]:
Yeah, me too.

Jerry Kopack [00:10:01]:
You made your way into Iran for your friend's wedding and I want to hear your take on the hospitality of Iran. And I've talked to a lot of people and they've all said the same thing, that it's incredible, it's unmatched. And earlier in the year, I had a woman on the show, her name was Helen Dainty, and she had cycled through, I don't know, 100 or so countries. And I asked her, like, what was your favorite country? And before I could even finish my question, she said, no doubt emphatically, Iran. What was your take on Iran?

Matthias Schwartz [00:10:36]:
Iran. For me, Iran is a very special country. But that is more because of my best friend. And yeah, because due to him, I have ties to this country. I have quite a lot of Iranian friends. And I agree that Iranians hospitality is very, very special. And I also got a taste of it when I was there. And I must say that sometimes they are too hospitable, the people are too hospitable.

Matthias Schwartz [00:11:10]:
So I've heard that.

Jerry Kopack [00:11:12]:
But.

Matthias Schwartz [00:11:17]:
For instance, I can remember one episode when, when, when I and a fellow cyclist, we were doing a lunch break and, and we went, you know, under, under the road. There are these tubes that, that are made for the water to go through. And we, we were hiding from the sun in one of these tubes. There was, there was a guy, I don't know how he saw us, but he came down to the tube and gave us his rice and his lunch. So, so we were actually trying to hide to have. And then there was a guy that. But generally I enjoyed Iran. I enjoyed the hospitality a lot, but I wouldn't necessarily say that it was my favorite country, so I enjoyed it a lot.

Matthias Schwartz [00:12:03]:
But if I would have to pin down a favorite country, I don't know, it would be a really difficult task for me. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe the Balkans. I really love the Balkans because of the nature there. But Iran is definitely a very, very special country if it comes to hospitality. It's, it's, it's amazing. Like, people invite you all the time.

Jerry Kopack [00:12:29]:
And so hold on to that, because I'm going to come back to that towards the end of the show. I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you a chance to think about your favorite country, because I'm gonna want to know later. But we'll come back to that in a few minutes. I want to pivot briefly and talk about something a little bit more serious because I think it's important from a contextual perspective. I don't want this to be too political, but I think it's important because you were traveling in Iran during a time when there was a big protest in 2022. What was it like to be there and see that firsthand as an outsider?

Matthias Schwartz [00:13:04]:
Menacing. I think you could feel the tension in the air. I was there. I went to Iran right before this woman, Mahsa Gina Mini, was killed by the religious police. That then led to the protests. And as you probably know, the protests got wilder and wilder and deadlier and deadlier. And I, I, I remember that among, among the cyclists, we were talking a lot about how to, how, what to do and if, whether to leave the country or not. And, and some people decided to leave the country.

Matthias Schwartz [00:13:44]:
Some decided to go the fastest way out, decide to take the bus and get out, and others were still going on. And there, there were some stories, like, circulating on the WhatsApp chats, that of some cyclists that got stopped or, or maybe even taken into custody for some time. So the, the, the, the, the, yeah, the atmosphere was quite tense. So, and I myself was asking, I myself was thinking, or whether I should leave the country or not. And in the end I decided not to leave. But, yeah, it's, I still ask myself if this was the right decision, if me having a choice, if it's okay to put my life at this risk and also my family that is frightened for me, like. Yeah. And that was pretty much the atmosphere.

Matthias Schwartz [00:14:48]:
It was a lot of police controls, a lot of heavy, heavy armed police officers.

Jerry Kopack [00:14:56]:
Yeah. So did, did you feel like you were in danger? What about your, your friend who had just gotten married to an Iranian woman? Did, did that change his status or his perspective?

Matthias Schwartz [00:15:08]:
With my friend, he, he has kind of a particular story because he's a journalist and he, he's mostly. So he was in immediate danger. Yes, he had to go out of the country. As soon as possible. So. And he has not been in the country ever since.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:24]:
Oh, so he and his Iranian wife moved back to Italy.

Matthias Schwartz [00:15:30]:
Yeah, they moved back to. Actually they live in Germany and. But he. He didn't go back. He still writes about Iran and mostly under his real name, but some. Yeah. And it's. It's dangerous for him.

Matthias Schwartz [00:15:46]:
So.

Jerry Kopack [00:15:46]:
Okay.

Matthias Schwartz [00:15:49]:
For me, I didn't feel too threatened. But. Yeah, like. Like I said, the. The atmosphere was threatening. And then right when I was there, it was the first time that an Italian woman got also arrested, which never happened before. She. She stayed in prison for one month.

Matthias Schwartz [00:16:10]:
So. And. And. And you had, like, the German and the Austrian embassy, which recommended their citizens to leave the country. The Italian embassy did not, but the Germans and the Austrians did. So. Yeah, it was not. Yeah, yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:16:30]:
So I remember reading about this story, and for what I read, it had to do with the. What they call the morality police. It was. It was a protest over the hijab. Right. Because I think that the woman was not wearing a hijab properly.

Matthias Schwartz [00:16:46]:
Exactly. Like, let's say this was the. This was the. The incidents that made. That made the protest spark, but it was a lot of. A lot more behind it, like a general. How do you say, insatisfaction with the regime. But that was what happened.

Matthias Schwartz [00:17:02]:
Yeah. There was this woman, Masa Gina Mini, that got arrested by the morality police or religious police for. Not like they claim. They claim that she didn't wear her veil properly. And then in the police station, she got beaten up, went to hospital, and then died three days later. Yeah, and that's what happened. And then the protest started, first among the students and then more in general. And a lot of protesters got killed also.

Matthias Schwartz [00:17:32]:
Some police got killed. A lot of people were arrested. Some were sent to jail or got the death sentence. And yes, that was what happened.

Jerry Kopack [00:17:43]:
Did you leave right after that or did you stay around?

Matthias Schwartz [00:17:47]:
No, I. I went further south. Like, I. The. The wedding was in Isfahan, another bit. Not, not the capital, but another big city which is more in the center of Iran. And then I. I headed out south and went to uae, and I just made sure not to be alone too much and to keep a low profile.

Matthias Schwartz [00:18:12]:
But I didn't leave the country immediately.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:16]:
Were they the people who stopped you, I'm assuming you got stopped at some point. Were they encouraging you to leave?

Matthias Schwartz [00:18:23]:
No, they were not. But they were all very sympathetic to the protests. Like the people I met. I think I met one guy who was not sympathetic to protests, but all the Other people, they were like, women, life, freedom. Which is the slogan. Which was the slogan of the protests. And yeah, there was all, like, chanting that when I met them.

Jerry Kopack [00:18:46]:
Oh, yeah, that was. I remember reading this and it was, it was a horrible story. And yeah, I've traveled through a lot of countries like you have, and I've been through some, some volatile, maybe contentious regions. But the one thing I discovered, at the end of the day, people are just people. They're, they're kind, they're generous, and they're caring. And even after this whole situation went down, it sounds like you still met really kind and generous and caring people.

Matthias Schwartz [00:19:14]:
Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yes. Okay.

Jerry Kopack [00:19:19]:
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Matthias Schwartz [00:20:01]:
I took a ship from a port in south of Iran which took me to Dubai. And then from Dubai, I went to Oman because I knew that I wanted to go home. But in Saudi Arabia, it was about November 2022, and I knew that it would still be cold in Saudi Arabia. That's why I decided to do a little detour and go to Oman first before I would go to Saudi Arabia. So that's what I did. And yeah, in Oman, Oman is very special to me, which, if I may say a few words about demand, because in Iman, right on the border, I met a guy and we cycled together for one month. And he was, I would say, out of the normal for cyclists, but in a very positive way. I've never met.

Matthias Schwartz [00:20:56]:
I've never met a non Western. Non Western cyclist. And he was from Malaysia. He was from Malaysia and cycling from Malaysia to Europe. And also since he was trying to make ends mean with a very small budget and he was the only cyclist I ever met that likes to cycle during the night. Also because of the heat. Yeah. But generally he is something he likes doing and we're a very different person.

Matthias Schwartz [00:21:32]:
But I think he's. I must say that he's very, very dear to me and, and very inspired Me a lot like his attitude is. I. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:21:45]:
How did you cycle together? And if he cycles during the night, did you change and do some night trips? No, no.

Matthias Schwartz [00:21:50]:
Let's say that he's, he's very flexible also. That is one of his tweets, among all of the other treats he has. He's very flexible. And I think together with him. I actually met Helen. I think I met her in Oman.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:06]:
Yeah.

Matthias Schwartz [00:22:07]:
Because I saw that the previous guests on this show, and I think I saw her there. If it's the woman I remember, I saw her together with him.

Jerry Kopack [00:22:15]:
Yeah. She was a fun interview. She's been to some really cool places and she said she really enjoys Muslim countries. And you've been through a few. What's your take on traveling through Muslim countries?

Matthias Schwartz [00:22:28]:
I enjoy them too, for several reasons. I'm very interested in Islam and in this particular region. Also in Arabic. I find Arabic really interesting. Although I do not speak Arabic. I just know the basic things which are to get me around and what is very particular about Muslim countries is, is like the, the, the mosques. I, I love the mosques. I, I don't.

Matthias Schwartz [00:23:02]:
In the mosques, I can do everything. You get, you get electricity, you can wash yourself, wash your clothes, you get drinking water, and if you, sometimes you can even take a sleep. So, yeah, very welcoming. It's, it's. Yeah, yeah, it's. The mosque has everything you need as a psych. It's, it's, it's. And sometimes in Oman, for instance, in, in Oman, on the, on Friday, on the holy day in Islam, they sometimes they put outside of the mosque like dates and coffee.

Matthias Schwartz [00:23:35]:
You can just go cycle by and then they have dates and coffee there. And I, I, I, I, I, I love this. Yeah, I love this, this, this openness towards. And I also came to use the word inshallah. So.

Jerry Kopack [00:23:52]:
Inshallah. Yeah.

Matthias Schwartz [00:23:55]:
It'S for me means God willing, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. If God wills. It describes very much my approach to cycling.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:05]:
Yeah, no, I love that too. I learned that a lot when I was traveling through some Muslim countries as well, and I thought it was fantastic. And even during our interview, Helen would say inshallah because she traveled through a lot of Muslim countries. Did you ever travel through any Muslim countries during Ramadan?

Matthias Schwartz [00:24:23]:
Yes, I was in Jordan. When. During Ramadan? Yes.

Jerry Kopack [00:24:29]:
What was that like?

Matthias Schwartz [00:24:31]:
I was a little bit not afraid, but I was a little bit like, wondering how it would be. But in the end it was okay. It was very much okay. I must say, on some instances when I was in Jordan, I was accompanied by a friend and in some instances we forgot that there was Ramadan and we, we were drinking out of our bottles and you could see some people dislike that, but that, that was unfortunately our bad. We, we didn't think about this.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:03]:
Yeah.

Matthias Schwartz [00:25:04]:
But in for the rest, it was like very, very interesting. Like sometime I was in Amman during Ramadan in the, the capital of Jordan and I can remember right before the, the, the breaking the fast, like all the people were running around running their errands and then, then the, the, the imam was chanting and everybody went to Moscow, went home and the streets were empty and like the, the street vendors, they didn't put away their, their stuff, they just put, put some, some blanket over it and then that was it. So, so there was this confidence that nobody would steal and very, very, very cool. Yeah yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:25:49]:
And then at sundown and people would eat again.

Matthias Schwartz [00:25:51]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was in also during Ramadan they also give away a lot of gifts. Like in Amman. I remember that, that on, on the side of the street there were a lot of people staying there and giving, handing out free water.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:09]:
Really?

Matthias Schwartz [00:26:09]:
That was, yeah, yeah. That is something you do during Ramadan to, to thank God. It's, it's, it's, yeah, something that you do.

Jerry Kopack [00:26:18]:
Yeah, yeah. I was in Turkey during Ramadan several years ago and I was very aware of it that no eating, drinking, etc. But as a cyclist, you're touring, it's difficult, so you try to get off into the countryside or out in the mountains where you're not passing through cities and blatantly eating, etc. Because you're trying to be respectful of the cultural uniqueness of it. So when you, when you finally got back to Italy, what was that like? Were you relieved? Were you ready to be done or just kind of make you excited to keep going?

Matthias Schwartz [00:26:53]:
Well, I enjoyed so much. I loved to cycle around Italy. When I came back, I must say that the weather in Italy was really bad. It was in August, but there was heavy rain and even floods in the, in the Alps and, but I, I get goosebumps right now when I think about this time. I, I think yeah, yeah, no, it was very special. It was so special. I, I, I, I have been thinking about that moment weeks before and when I came to Italy, I, what I did morning, I, or at 10 o', clock, I went to some bar and had coffee and a brioche, like a croissant. And then I read the newspaper.

Matthias Schwartz [00:27:50]:
I tried to get used to Italian life again and I enjoyed it so Much I enjoyed the landscape, I enjoyed the people, I enjoyed the coffee. Yeah. So very special.

Jerry Kopack [00:28:03]:
Did you feel it was difficult to sort of reintegrate in society after being on the road and just kind of traveling day to day, country to country, to get back to sort of normal life?

Matthias Schwartz [00:28:13]:
Yes, yes. It didn't hit me right after it, but after some time because in, in the, at the beginning it was kind of like a party, like, oh, I'm back and, and I want to, I want to see my friends. I want to, to, to do that. Things I haven't done, I haven't been doing for one and a half months. But after that time passed, it was really okay. Am I still the same guy that I was when I left? Is the, the same work environment still okay for me? What about a flat? It was very, very difficult to integrate. And what I also always have to say is that also I, I also lost some friends over this travels because I, I, I, I, I, I didn't like to use Internet too much, so I was barely online during this. The life of my friends went on and sometimes I found myself that some people just moved on.

Matthias Schwartz [00:29:17]:
And this was also a lesson I had to learn.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:20]:
And people got married and had children. Yeah, yeah.

Matthias Schwartz [00:29:25]:
For instance. It's the natural way of life, I guess, also. And, but yeah, it was part of the adventure.

Jerry Kopack [00:29:33]:
What do you think, if anything changed within you, who, as a result of this trip?

Matthias Schwartz [00:29:40]:
I think that I'm a lot more disciplined and a lot more outgoing. Also. Although I spent much of this year in solitude, a year and a half. I'm so much more outgoing than I was before, organizing stuff, bringing people together. It was not my cup of tea before this trip, but now I do that all the time. I bring people together, connect them and yeah, try to. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:10]:
Well, you probably saw that through a lot of the countries that you travel through, those cultural connections, the families, the, the society, they, they're, they're more community.

Matthias Schwartz [00:30:18]:
Right. Also, what I also do is that sometimes when we have a lot of tourists here, it's very touristy. So sometimes when I see tourists that seem lost, I just walk up to them and ask them, do you need help?

Jerry Kopack [00:30:32]:
Right. Because how many times did that happen to you while you were traveling?

Matthias Schwartz [00:30:35]:
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Jerry Kopack [00:30:38]:
Yeah. See, that's important. That's definitely a good takeaway from that experience because how many people would normally walk up to a tourist who looks different from them? Or maybe dirty, because you're probably a dirty cyclist. Yeah. And just to walk up and say, hey, are you Lost. Do you want to come over and have a tea? Do you want to have dinner? Do you want to sleep in my living room? Right, that doesn't happen. But in these countries you traveled through, it probably happened to you quite a bit.

Matthias Schwartz [00:31:05]:
Yes, exactly.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:07]:
So I want to wrap things up with some rapid fire travel questions. Kind of a fun little game I play. Sound good?

Matthias Schwartz [00:31:15]:
Okay. Yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:16]:
All right, so easy one. First one. Does your bike have a name? No. No. Wow. Okay. You're the first person that I've talked to who didn't have a name for their bike. No problem.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:30]:
So. Okay, I realize this is a very cliche question to ask, but whatever, I'm gonna ask it. So every place is different, every place is unique. But did you have a favorite place that you were in? I told you I was going to.

Matthias Schwartz [00:31:42]:
Come back to this for you if you're favorite place.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:46]:
Yeah, well, you know a place that you would go back to because for me, I can't seem to get enough of India. I loved India. I'd go, but I've been there four times. Place that you'd never go back to?

Matthias Schwartz [00:31:56]:
Maybe Bosnia. The south of Bosnia.

Jerry Kopack [00:31:58]:
Okay. Why.

Matthias Schwartz [00:32:02]:
In the south of Bosnia? There is some mountains that look really yummy.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:06]:
Okay. And you were there?

Matthias Schwartz [00:32:09]:
No, I was in Bosnia and I, I, I travel with paper maps. I love paper maps. So I, I, and in, in the, in the evening in the tent, I would look, look around what is in my surroundings and look at the mountains and, and there, there were some mountains that looked so pretty.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:25]:
Yeah. Okay. Is there still a list of places that you want to go besides that place in Bosnia? Or is Bosnia kind of on the number one on your list?

Matthias Schwartz [00:32:35]:
I definitely would love to go to Scotland.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:38]:
Scotland, Interesting.

Matthias Schwartz [00:32:39]:
Yeah, I think I would enjoy the nature there. And it's one of the darkest areas in Europe. Meaning like during the night there's no light pollution? Almost.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:52]:
Yeah.

Matthias Schwartz [00:32:53]:
And that's why I think I would love to go there. Okay.

Jerry Kopack [00:32:56]:
Was there a country along the way that you didn't want to leave? Like, I'm, this is such amazing experience. I'm not excited to go to the next place.

Matthias Schwartz [00:33:10]:
It's okay.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:10]:
It's good to love your home country. Okay.

Matthias Schwartz [00:33:15]:
That's also where I want to do my next bike trip. I think, like, besides Scotland, I, I want to do Italy. North to south and west to east.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:24]:
I spent some time in the Dolomites. And the Dolomites were beyond description, just beautiful. So I don't know how close you are to that region, but wow, very Close.

Matthias Schwartz [00:33:33]:
Very close.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:34]:
Okay, so, you know. Right. Giro d'. Italia. All right. I've cycled a lot of those routes. They're amazing. Was there a country that you thought was particularly challenging?

Matthias Schwartz [00:33:46]:
I think Jordan. Jordan was quite. Yeah, I think Jordan on so many levels.

Jerry Kopack [00:33:52]:
More so than Saudi Arabia?

Matthias Schwartz [00:33:53]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially because of the contrast between. Okay, Saudi Arabia is so rigid and. And so. Yeah. And then there comes Jordan, which seems like. Especially in the south, in Aaba, it seems like one party. And.

Matthias Schwartz [00:34:08]:
And this was very difficult process after. After Iran and Saudi Arabia with all the rigor and. And, yeah, and also the weather was not that. That nice. And I had problems with my teeth and. Yeah, they were quite difficult times back then.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:30]:
Got. It had nothing to do with, like, the sand or anything like that?

Matthias Schwartz [00:34:34]:
No, no, nothing, nothing. Yeah, I also had bike problems, so there was so many things going on in Jordan.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:40]:
It's because your bike doesn't have a name, it doesn't feel like it has a home. So work on that one.

Matthias Schwartz [00:34:45]:
Okay. Okay.

Jerry Kopack [00:34:46]:
What was your favorite food country?

Matthias Schwartz [00:34:51]:
No, no, no. This one I cannot answer. I don't know really, because I was. I. I was eating, basically. I was eating all the time, all my stuff. I was almost never eating out. All.

Matthias Schwartz [00:35:07]:
I. I think.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:08]:
Because I've also heard Iran has amazing food.

Matthias Schwartz [00:35:11]:
Yeah, they have amazing food, but I'm a vegetarian, so it's very tricky.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:16]:
Okay, so lot. Lots of lamb or beef. Too much?

Matthias Schwartz [00:35:19]:
Yeah. Ye. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:20]:
India, my friend, if you haven't gone.

Matthias Schwartz [00:35:22]:
Yeah, yeah, India. India. I can definitely relate to that. I can understand.

Jerry Kopack [00:35:27]:
Okay, how about this one? You're. I know you're from the. Italy, it sounds like near the Dolomites. What's your favorite landscape? So, desert, mountain, Coastal.

Matthias Schwartz [00:35:37]:
Either desert or mountain. But, like, look, I. Before I went to Saudi Arabia, I was really afraid of going to Saudi Arabia because I like the mountains. I like going steep, going high and steep. And Saudi Arabia basically on until. Yeah, it's basically flat. And I was really, really afraid of it because I found it very boring and with little to no people there. But then I.

Matthias Schwartz [00:36:01]:
I really enjoyed it. I really loved it. Because there is maybe not much to see for your eyes, but, like, you discover your interior a lot. So you. You have so much time with yourself and. And nothing much to do. And it's always the same thing. Like, it's not that you have to change rhythm because it's always fl.

Matthias Schwartz [00:36:23]:
It was. It had a very monastic touch. And I loved it. Absolutely loved it.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:29]:
Okay.

Matthias Schwartz [00:36:30]:
Yeah. The Desert like this, this empty. Empty.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:33]:
It's almost like meditative, right?

Matthias Schwartz [00:36:35]:
Yeah, it was, it was meditation.

Jerry Kopack [00:36:37]:
Yeah. So, big trip. Was there anything that you wish you had brought with you?

Matthias Schwartz [00:36:50]:
No, I, I, No, I, I don't had everything okay? Yeah, of course, like the, the, the. But maybe a chair or something. I don't, I don't know, but. Okay. I don't know, but I think I, I thought I was well equipped. Maybe rainproof stuff. I didn't have too much rain.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:11]:
Really?

Matthias Schwartz [00:37:12]:
Yeah, I got wet a lot.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:14]:
Okay, that's interesting. That would be something for the next trip to plan.

Matthias Schwartz [00:37:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. Now I have a lot of rainproof gear, but before I didn't have. I thought. It's not that.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:26]:
Was there anything that you realized that you just didn't need that you got rid of along the way?

Matthias Schwartz [00:37:33]:
Yeah, in Saudi Arabia they gave me a solar panel, but quite a big one. Like somebody gifted it to me.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:42]:
That's nice.

Matthias Schwartz [00:37:43]:
And, and it was just too heavy. I left it at some mosque.

Jerry Kopack [00:37:50]:
So you mentioned that you carried your own food. So what, what's your favorite snack food that you try to carry with you throughout countries?

Matthias Schwartz [00:37:59]:
My favorite thing? Yeah, I love cookies. Cookies all the time.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:03]:
Biscuits. Cookies, right.

Matthias Schwartz [00:38:05]:
Yeah, biscuits, cookies. At some point, this is not a snack, but at some point I discovered Turkish coffee for my. I love Turkish coffee. I'm Italian, I'm not a coffee drinker. I was not a coffee drinker before, but during this trip I discovered coffee, especially Turkish coffee for myself.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:28]:
Interesting. Yeah, I've heard about the. I've cycled through Italy and I had friends and they would cycle for a while and stop at a cafe and have a coffee and then cycle some more. So yeah, I didn't do that before.

Matthias Schwartz [00:38:42]:
I didn't do that bit before.

Jerry Kopack [00:38:43]:
I'm not a coffee drinker either. So I'm right there with you. Lastly, any other big trips planned?

Matthias Schwartz [00:38:52]:
No, not two big trips. But I. Since like, since I'm this. In this particular situation that I'm German, Italian, I. Sometimes we look very much to the north to Germany and Austria and that's what. But why I would really like to, to do something in Italy like a three month or four month round trip, just Italy to, To get. I have a feeling that I actually don't know this country too well. So this is something I would really love to do.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:23]:
Well, keep us updated on your travel plans because whatever you're doing, I'm sure it's going to be amazing.

Matthias Schwartz [00:39:30]:
Thank you. Thank you, Jerry.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:31]:
So Matthias, I want to thank you so much for sitting down, having a talk with me today. Do you have any social media out there that I want to share with the people? People can follow your travels, keep up with what you're doing.

Matthias Schwartz [00:39:44]:
Just a warm shower's profile. I don't have any social media.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:49]:
Give me a. Give me a good warm shower story to. To close out our show.

Matthias Schwartz [00:39:55]:
A good warm show.

Jerry Kopack [00:39:58]:
Yeah, either. Either. Either hosting or you being hosted.

Matthias Schwartz [00:40:03]:
A good one. Yeah, I was. I was doing warm shows in Palestine when I was in Palestine. Okay. And the guy that hosted me was working for the International Red Cross in Palestine. He was the head of mission there. And this was so interesting to talk to him. This was so interesting to meet him to.

Matthias Schwartz [00:40:23]:
To. To. To. Yeah, to talk somebody who really knows stuff. And that was very. I'm very grateful to this connection I made through Wormshouse.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:33]:
Yeah, I love that. Otherwise good experience in Palestine.

Matthias Schwartz [00:40:38]:
Yes. Yes. Very good.

Jerry Kopack [00:40:41]:
All right, everyone, thanks for listening to my conversation today with Matthias Schwalz. If you enjoy our show, give us a like a share on your social channels or maybe just tell your friends. These stories hopefully will inspire you to set off on your own bicycle adventure and maybe make the world feel a little bit smaller, one pedal stroke at a time. Until then, keep the wheels rolling. And the story's coming. Thanks for joining us on Bike Life. I'm Jerry Kopak and I. I hope you enjoyed today's episode as much as we enjoyed sharing it with you.

Jerry Kopack [00:41:11]:
Please leave us a rating and review or just tell your friends. This helps us reach more cyclists and hosts around the world. To learn more or become part of this amazing community. Visit us@warmshowers.org or follow us on Instagram at warmshowersorg. If you'd like to be a guest on the show or have a question you'd like us to explore, email us at podcast@warmshowers.org.