Why have digital treasury plays gleaned so much attention.

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Hello, welcome everybody.
Thanks for joining us at another

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episode of Arthur's Round Table.
Today's a special day for me

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because I have my long time dear
friend and digital asset OG and

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call him that David Damdar.
We've sat many times at the Soho

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House discussing digital assets
and life in general.

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So I super appreciate him
dialing in from Puerto Rico

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today and that's going to be a
fascinating discussion.

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He's managed to get into a
position, he managed to get into

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many positions that are at the
forefront of digital assets, but

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this is super interesting and I
think you'll find it as well.

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So David, thanks.
Thanks for doing this of.

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Course art, they're great to see
you.

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So let's start at the beginning.
Get some contacts with your

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background because I think it's
relevant.

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Sure.
So I guess I was coming at this

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from the, I came from the
traditional hedge fund and

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finance world.
I started off at UBS out in Hong

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Kong and then I worked at
Millennium back in New York.

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And that's when Arthur and I
first met.

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And from early on, I was always
somebody trying to look for

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differentiated opportunities and
try to see things from different

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perspectives.
And I found out about Bitcoin

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and cryptocurrency quite early.
And I think the first article I

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ever saw was something I shared
with an investment club that I

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was a part of.
And it was in 2011 and it was

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the title was the world's
fastest growing currency.

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Isn't the currency at all.
Bitcoin grew from, you know,

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$1.00 to $30 and crashed back
down to $3.

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And this was in 2011.
And so at the time, the first

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thing I said was, you know, I
wouldn't suggest anyone invest

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in it, but maybe try to find a
way to get some free ones.

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So that's the first thing I ever
said about Bitcoin.

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It's a good boy.
Then I went to some of the

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earliest Bitcoin in crypto meet
ups in New York in 2012 and 13

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and started to get involved in
the space while I was at

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Millennium.
And then I left to set up my

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first company in the space
called Solid X in 2014, which

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was a investment bank entirely
focused on digital assets.

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We tried to do a Bitcoin ETF.
I was second in the world after

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the Winklevoss twins who founded
Gemini and just took that public

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this year, one of the largest
crypto exchange in New York.

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We tried to do a create
derivatives using total return

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swamps, which was something I
was familiar with and traded

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while I was at Millennium and
UBS.

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And we put out one of the first
research reports ever on Bitcoin

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and digital assets as an
institutional asset class in

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2014.
So it was a bit too early, you

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know, had a lot of the right
ideas.

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Then a couple years later I got
connected to Mike Novogratz, who

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was ex Fortress and Goldman,
went into his family office to

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manage all of his digital assets
and planted seeds to launch a

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hedge fund and a business
together and then to take that

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company public in Canada that
became known as Galaxy Digital.

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It's now a $10 billion
diversified crypto asset manager

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financial services firm today,
and they're doing a lot of great

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things.
And then since then, I had a

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crypto hedge fund here in Puerto
Rico called Coral Capital,

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taking some other companies
public.

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And then most recently, I've
been investing, advising a ton

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of things and I have been
investing a lot in this latest

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wave of digital asset treasuries
I wish I'll get into.

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And I'm currently the CEO of CEA
Industries, which is running AB

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and B Digital Asset Treasury
Company.

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So I'm going to say this so you
don't have to, even if you want

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to, even if you don't want to,
is that Novogratz?

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You put Novogratz on the map,
and I happen to know that

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because I was there.
So I'll just as a matter of

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record say that.
And I'm sure he's on some level

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appreciative of that, maybe not
as appreciative as he otherwise

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would have been.
So anyway.

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Well, I appreciate you.
Yeah, I appreciate you.

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So super exciting.
What what what happened during

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the You introduced me to the guy
that did Polly.

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What was the name of the Polly?
Polly Market.

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Shane Copeland.
No, no, the other guy, the the

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guy that was back to the
benchmark.

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Polly Math.
Trevor Quverko.

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No, there was.
Polly Polly Chain, Olaf Carlson,

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WI.
That's right.

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That's right.
So it's one.

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Of the largest crypto VCs and
considered one of the best.

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Yeah, he did one of the first
FOI gigs because of you and in

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Benchmark's office in in New
York City, and he was at the

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forefront.
I mean, he was definitely, you

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know, out there in front of
everybody else and it's proved

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to be profitable for him and
everybody else.

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It was in the fund.
That's.

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Right, Yeah, Polythene, I think
at the time they had 20 to 40

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million AUM and they were really
just trying to launch and get

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going.
I believe Naval Ravikant or one

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of or had might have been
involved back then or or it was

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involved with another fund Meta
stable.

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But they're really two of the
earliest pure crypto funds based

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out of Silicon Valley.
And Olaf actually is an investor

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in my, my current company and
he's been a friend for a long

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time, but he, he managed to
build really and has had an

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incredible run of success with
Poly Chain and now it's at I

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believe between 2 and 4 billion
in AUM today.

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Yeah, wild.
Yeah, Super smart guys.

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Super.
I appreciate that.

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All right, so let's get into
this treasury thing and let let

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me just say something here for
the benefit of those that may

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not have dug deep in this.
It's easy to kind of make sense

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of what some people are doing to
put Bitcoin on their balance

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sheet, right?
Even though you could buy

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Bitcoin directly, what is it
that makes that's causing it to

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make sense to buy a company that
owns something that you could

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buy directly, but you're better
off not buying it directly?

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In your case, I know it's not
available, but that's a

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different story.
So in general, the treasury

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companies are buying things that
you could otherwise buy without

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them in some cases.
Is that fair to say?

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Sure.
And I think that's a good like

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starting point to frame it.
So just step back a SEC.

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I'm sure many people are
familiar with.

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But for those who aren't, like I
credit a lot of this to five

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years ago.
Michael Saylor had kicked off

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this wave of Bitcoin treasuries
and now digital asset treasuries

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by taking the cash that was
sitting on his balance sheet at

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Micro Strategy, which was kind
of a failing or struggling

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software company that he'd been
running since, you know, early

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2000s.
Taking the 400 million they had

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in cash, realizing, you know,
it's not productive.

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It's not, you know, and it's
actually getting inflated away.

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So he fought with his board,
fought with all the regulators

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in order to convert that into
Bitcoin.

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The market responded well, stock
traded up.

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And then he kicked off this kind
of flywheel where he continued

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to sell more equity and buy more
Bitcoin and sell more equity and

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buy more Bitcoin.
So now over the last five years,

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he's managed to accumulate 60 to
70 billion of Bitcoin.

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And he had a premium that
persisted for the last five

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years a lot longer than anyone
expected right now actually for

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I think only the second or third
time in its history, the

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premiums contracted.
So now the value of the market

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cap of MicroStrategy is just
around the total value of its

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Bitcoin holdings today.
So following that, that's kicked

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off a lot of other people and
he's helped through his Bitcoin

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for corporates conference and
just through a lot of other

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people that carry the Bitcoin
flag and share all the merits

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about Bitcoin as digital gold.
There's over 100 different

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companies, maybe 2 or 300 at
this point that are considered

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Bitcoin treasuries or have
Bitcoin on their balance sheet

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as public companies.
There's in following the

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footsteps, people realize, well,
Bitcoin has very special

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characteristics, but a number of
these other digital assets also

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do Perium, Solana, B&B,
Hyperledger, you know, people

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have gone down the list of
realizing, well, what if we were

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to have a company who part of
its core strategy is to

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accumulate a lot of this
interesting and important

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digital asset.
Now to your point that you'd

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brought up the difference of
owning it, buying it yourself,

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or buying it in an ETF versus in
a treasury company, The way I

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think about it is in an ETF or
direct holdings, it's kind of

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passive holdings of it.
Whereas investing into a

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treasury company, it's designed
and the purpose of it is to

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accumulate more over time.
If you have, if you invest in

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ETF and the asset price goes up
and down, Bitcoin goes from 100K

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to 300K, you're expected to have
the same amount of underlying

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Bitcoin during that period.
If you're invested in a treasury

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company who succeeds at its kind
of stated goal is to increase

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the Bitcoin per share, you might
end up not with one Bitcoin per

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share, but you might end up with
1.2 or 1.5 or two times the

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amount of Bitcoin that you
started with when you invested.

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Yeah.
So part of the strategy is

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accumulating more, whereas with
the ETF you only can get more is

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if you buy more of the ETF, get
it.

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Yeah.
Back to Michael for a second.

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Had he aside from getting
distracted from the main

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business, that might have
attributed to some of the value

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of the shares going down.
Had he not done that, then the

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value of the company would be 0.
I believe so.

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I mean, I think some, somebody
pointed out to me, I, I don't

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think the software business is
generating money.

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It might still be burning money.
You know, in the absence of, you

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know, going down this path to
accumulate Bitcoin, he might be

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sitting on a company, you know,
if it had 400 million cash and 1

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billion market cap, then he
might be sitting on 100 million

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cash and, you know, 2300 million
market cap today instead of 70

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billion.
Yeah, wild.

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It's pretty wild stuff.
So we can talk about whatever

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you want to talk about.
But maybe now how did this all

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come about where you're in the
driver's seat, arguably in this

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public company that owns the
Binance tokens, right?

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That's essentially what's
happening, right?

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Sure.
So as I said earlier, when I was

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investing into a lot of these
other digital asset treasuries,

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and I've traded MicroStrategy,
I've been, you know, had short

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periods where I'd been investing
in it.

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And and then I'd looked into it
and had friends who've been

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introducing a lot of the others
like Metaplanet in Japan and

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some of the other more recently
in in the US markets as well,

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Nakamoto Pro Cap with a lot of
them focusing on Bitcoin.

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Then through the process of
investing in them and sharing

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that with some friends, some of
the management and the bankers

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were telling me, OK, hold on,
you're better at this.

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You understand crypto and
capital markets better than the

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management teams and the bankers
you need to run one of these

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treasury companies.
And so through that process,

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they told me, all right, they
support me running a Bitcoin

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treasury or anything I wanted in
any market in the world.

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And I thought about that in
different markets.

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And I just thought, as much as I
continue to love and carry the

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Bitcoin flag, I didn't feel like
I could tell that story as

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genuinely and honestly as
Michael Saylor or as David

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Bailey and Nakamoto, people that
have been carrying only the

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Bitcoin flag for as long as
they've been in the space.

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For me, you know, I've been an
investor.

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I've been, you know, hedge fund
manager.

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I've done a lot of different
things in the space.

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And so as I started to think
about the different

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opportunities, the one that
really rose up to me as being

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the most interesting was B&B,
which initially started off just

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to give a quick intro there as
Binance token.

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And then it evolved into Binance
Smart Chain and now into BNB

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chain.
And that's what it is existed As

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for the last five years.
Part of the reason for that is

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that it was introduced by
Binance or the team behind

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Binance, which is by far the
largest crypto exchange in the

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market.
Just out of perspective, Binance

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has about 40% market share.
And if it were a public company,

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it might be valued anywhere from
5 to 15 times larger than

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Coinbase.
Coinbase is $100 billion company

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today.
So I'll just give you a percent

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00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,120
of how big finance is.
They have over 300 million users

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00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,960
I believe so far really is it's
a well known story, but mostly

227
00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,320
outside the US, So they hadn't
been operating in the US market

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00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,840
and a lot of that's just getting
cleared up with some of the kind

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00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,600
of regulatory clarity and more,
you know, open and sensible

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00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,760
regulations going forward.
So there's a lot of positive

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00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,960
potential catalysts there.
It was why when I looked at B&B

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00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,600
as the token kind of introduced
by finance, but now it's evolved

233
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,880
into so much more across this
whole like thriving Web 3

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00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,440
ecosystem, I thought that this
was really an opportunity to

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00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:26,080
focus on an asset that was
overlooked, undervalued and kind

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00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,680
of really just not well known,
particularly in the Western

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00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:31,480
markets.
And we don't necessarily need to

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00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,640
disclose all this, but to the
extent that you feel like it did

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00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,600
in thinking about it and coming
to that conclusion, did they

240
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:40,960
come to you?
You went to them, it was sort of

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00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,200
symbiotic.
How did that all happen?

242
00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,000
Because he's a notorious figure,
right?

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00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,160
He's, you know, it's not like
he's not known or, you know,

244
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,720
it's, it's if you're at all
dialed in, you, you know how big

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00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:55,200
it is.
It's huge, right?

246
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:56,800
Sure.
And so and then he you're

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00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,960
talking about there is CZ who's
the founder of finance and and

248
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,280
BNB.
And so he is quite well known

249
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,960
and also he's been in the press
a lot recently.

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00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,160
He was just recently pardoned
and that was for, you know, some

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00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,120
issues that he'd had in the
prior couple of years was a very

252
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,920
again, I've, I've known him
socially from very early on in

253
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:17,440
the space.
And so I've been very happy.

254
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:20,080
You know, I think there's a lot
of just validation and now

255
00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,720
really allows him to be a lot
more engaged and kind of really

256
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,240
to be back to being a
significant driving force in the

257
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,240
space.
During the capital raises, we

258
00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,360
did a a $500 million pipe
transaction and going public or

259
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,840
in merging the pipe into this
listed company, C Industries.

260
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:38,600
During that process, I was
telling people into this

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00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,720
narrative that CZ as a kind of
partner and investor into the

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00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,240
deal and as a friend, he's
probably the second most

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00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,760
important person in the crypto
space, the most important person

264
00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,680
not named Satoshi.
And so Satoshi, we still don't

265
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,600
know who it is and or where they
are.

266
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,760
And so CZ and is arguably the
most important figure known in

267
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,320
the crypto space today.
So I think part of what I've

268
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,480
been doing is actually just
helping share the story of just

269
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,120
what he's, what has been built
so far with finance and B&B and

270
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,360
just how important it is to
really the whole crypto space.

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00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,000
And not that it matters, but the
three people I know that have

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00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,960
been pardoned all or subject to
things that they would otherwise

273
00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,520
not have been targeted for, not
have been determined to be

274
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,720
criminals.
It was just a targeted

275
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,120
situation.
It just happens that I don't

276
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,600
know that many people, right,
that have been pardoned.

277
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,760
The three that were allegedly
criminals weren't really, and

278
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,520
then they got pardoned, right?
So I think it speaks to this a

279
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:36,840
little bit anyway.
Sure.

280
00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,480
Well, listen, I'm, I'm somebody
on that like even, you know,

281
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,120
early on as I first started down
this path, I was being very

282
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,440
careful about a lot of TV
opportunities and everything

283
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,960
because people have a lot of
bias and negative slant that

284
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,120
they wanted to really focus on a
lot of those things and.

285
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,120
So newsworthy stuff, right?
Yeah.

286
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,240
Right.
And, and a lot of journalists.

287
00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,560
And so it's, it's definitely
made my job a lot easier now as

288
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,040
I can focus on a lot more on the
merit and substance of

289
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,040
everything.
And just it's, it's been very

290
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,680
validating because a lot of the
positive catalysts I've been

291
00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:10,040
talking about.
So even around that, like I stay

292
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,800
very apolitical, but I'm very
happy that it's, you know, like

293
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,120
I said, moving more towards
sensitive and, you know, an open

294
00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,680
framework towards regulation
which will invite innovation,

295
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:20,840
particularly in the USI think
there's been a number of times

296
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,880
where over regulation or
politicized regulation in the US

297
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:28,240
has kind of driven out a lot of
innovators and technologists.

298
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,200
And so I'm definitely optimistic
about the direction we're headed

299
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,760
in now.
And a lot of other catalysts

300
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,120
like B&B being introduced to the
US market.

301
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,600
It was I think the day before he
was pardoned, Coinbase and Robin

302
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,920
Hood both added B&B as a token
where people, investors can get

303
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,760
exposure to it as well.
And so I do think as the US

304
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,600
market wakes up to it, a lot
more users and holders of B&B

305
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,240
will significantly Dr. value to
it.

306
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,160
So I may have misspoke.
So the B&B token, which is what

307
00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:03,120
is the mechanism is the asset
that you're buying in the public

308
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:07,800
company, is that fair to say?
So it is otherwise available to

309
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,760
somebody in Coinbase.
So what's the edge in the

310
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,080
Treasury company?
Well, so that goes back to this

311
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:17,640
idea of this kind of passive
holding verse more active

312
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,000
accumulation, right, that
investing in teams when I think

313
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,520
as an investor into treasury
companies, right, I'm thinking

314
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:26,880
and betting on the teams that
have been in the space a long

315
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,040
time that I think are going to
be able to accumulate more of

316
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,360
that asset.
So it's really more a kind of

317
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:34,800
enhanced exposure.
That's where it starts to get

318
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,120
very special if like they're
able to accumulate more and

319
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,440
actually be a driving force and
helping drive value to that

320
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,160
ecosystem and the underlying
asset.

321
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,880
The other thing that's kind of a
very unique circumstance that

322
00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,160
I've just really started to
share in the past last week or

323
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,240
two is that, you know, we've
been through periods.

324
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:50,640
I've been in the crypto market a
long time.

325
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,560
As you brought up, you know,
there have been periods of

326
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,800
euphoria and periods of panic
early on.

327
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,240
Like we've went through that
with a lot of people rushing

328
00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:58,600
into these digital asset
treasuries.

329
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,440
Now as the crypto market pulled
back and Bitcoin from 125 down

330
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:07,000
to 100K or 9K today, and as
we're seeing a lot more kind of

331
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,560
panic or worry about where the
market's heading, What's unique

332
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,720
is that it's actually one of the
first times ever that crypto

333
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,840
assets are on sale.
So I'm sure I think we've talked

334
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,760
about this before and everybody
get whenever anyone enters the

335
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:20,800
crypto space, the first thing
they usually try to do,

336
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,760
especially if they came from
finances, they're like, oh, I

337
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,840
want to broker this OTC deal or
I have this person that wants to

338
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,040
buy Bitcoin, but they want to
buy it at 5% off or 1% off.

339
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,800
And I would tell people 99.999%
of times those are.

340
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,560
Fake, don't waste time.
On it, I want to save your time,

341
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,120
my time and you know, there's no
such thing as a discount in

342
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:40,640
crypto.
If you want to buy crypto, go on

343
00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:43,680
an exchange, go to an OTC desk
and and buy it right now.

344
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,440
You can buy it through some ETS.
But guess what, with digital

345
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,160
asset treasuries, a lot of them
are trading at twenty 3040%

346
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:52,800
discounts to the underlying
assets.

347
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,840
They have their net asset value.
So it's the first time ever if

348
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,440
you believe in crypto and you
believe, you know, as I do and

349
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,960
believe in kind of where things
are heading over the next, you

350
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:02,920
know, one to three years until
the next cycle.

351
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:05,400
I think this might end up being
one of the best entry points

352
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,800
ever into the crypto space.
That discount has been

353
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,440
precipitated by the the decrease
in Bitcoin and other digital

354
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,319
assets at this juncture, not for
any other reason, like 20

355
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:20,119
percents of deep discount,
right?

356
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,520
Sure.
Now the only other time this

357
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:27,280
existed was really when
Grayscale through their GBTC had

358
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:30,480
there was a Bitcoin kind of
closed end fund.

359
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,920
They were charging large fees on
it and because it was a closed

360
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,960
end fund, the investors started
to worry that the discount would

361
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,000
never close.
Well, the difference here is

362
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,400
that the management teams have
the ability to close the

363
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,040
discount anytime they're able to
buy back shares.

364
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,920
When they're at a discount,
they're able to sell the assets

365
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,840
and they can kind of like.
The share buy me same thing.

366
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,040
Right, exactly.
So this is where it's an

367
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,160
interesting thing.
Another way that I or another

368
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,880
interesting phrase, you know, a
way to consider what these

369
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,840
digital asset treasuries are is
they can act a little bit like

370
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:07,560
on chain mutual funds or you
know, operating in businesses

371
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:11,720
that use their operating cash
flows and leverage to accumulate

372
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,440
more of that the underlying
asset.

373
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,160
So over time, they become a
little bit like Berkshire, where

374
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,520
Warren Buffett, when his stocks
or when his kind of equity is

375
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,280
trading at a premium to what he
believes the underlying value of

376
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,240
his businesses are, he issues
more equity when they're trading

377
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:28,680
at a discount to what he
believes the value.

378
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,560
Is he buys back stock?
And so that's really what a lot

379
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,960
of these treasury companies are
able to do in order to really

380
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,800
increase the BNB or the BTC per
share or increase the net asset

381
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,280
value for the investors.
So without getting into the

382
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,000
reasons why Bitcoin is where
it's at and digital assets, this

383
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,600
is probably not a fair question.
But.

384
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:50,160
I can take it.
Yeah, I know you can.

385
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,920
Coin does.
Does the cryptocurrency market

386
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,480
track Bitcoin and Ethereum in
terms of its correlation?

387
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,520
I mean the ones that you would
want to own, not the ones that

388
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,920
you wouldn't want to own well.
I think this is where people in

389
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,200
general focus on the wrong
things and are a little bit, you

390
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,640
know, having again, come from
the headphone world, followed,

391
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,000
you know, and been through many
crypto cycles.

392
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:18,120
Whenever it's almost a universal
truth, whenever the market's

393
00:19:18,120 --> 00:19:20,640
ripping out, when Bitcoin's at
new highs is when I get the most

394
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,360
phone calls and everybody who
wants to invest and jump into

395
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:24,640
the crypto.
Market, right, Yeah.

396
00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,240
When the markets pull back ten
2030%, they they're panicking.

397
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,520
People think it's all over and
they regret ever getting

398
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,960
involved in crypto and because
they bought at the highs and

399
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,040
they're panicking out at the
lows, right.

400
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:39,400
So I've been having been through
this, I constantly just try to

401
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,440
give people this like little bit
of counter intuitive or like

402
00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,240
counter momentum advice of being
like, all right, don't get too

403
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,640
excited at the highs and you
know, be a little more cautious

404
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,720
and be a little more optimistic.
Just think, zoom out and

405
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,840
realize, well, you've been
wanting to get the exposure.

406
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,920
Now that it's back here, maybe
it's a better entry point or a

407
00:19:58,360 --> 00:19:59,880
point to start dipping in,
right?

408
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,800
Another interesting thing is
outside of Bitcoin.

409
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,600
So even when Bitcoin was at all
time highs.

410
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,280
It was a metric, excuse me, that
I saw that was like the total 3

411
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,600
or it was all the large cap
crypto assets outside of Bitcoin

412
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,960
and it was just breaking to new
highs right before the pullback.

413
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,280
So even now, you know people and
there's a lot of information out

414
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,520
there on X Twitter and different
like crypto information sites

415
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,880
where people are putting out and
focusing on all these other

416
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,840
opportunities.
You know, people look at the

417
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,760
Bitcoin dominance.
So at any point in time, the

418
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,640
total market cap of Bitcoin
compared to the total market cap

419
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,840
of all crypto assets.
And so historically, I think

420
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,880
it's been between 30 and 60%.
So whenever that starts to

421
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,720
decline, people kind of refer to
it as an alt season or a time

422
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,200
when, you know, as Bitcoin
starts to decline in total

423
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,240
dominance, you see a lot of the
other altcoins start to

424
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,160
outperform.
So it that's really interesting.

425
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,640
The correlation is opposite.
It's kind of, you know, the

426
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,720
thing that's frustrated many
people, including me, although

427
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,160
I've got somebody in my corner
that helps a little bit a lot,

428
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:09,800
is that it's, it's not so easy.
There's, you know, investing in

429
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,440
digital assets is, is gotten
easier, but it's still complex.

430
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,080
Like you have to to there's lots
of movement parts, right?

431
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,240
It's not so straightforward.
And I would argue the reason why

432
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,360
I bring that up is that if
you're buying shares in a public

433
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:30,200
company that's got all that not
so easy stuff solved, including

434
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,840
the idea of what to do with it
and when to buy and how to

435
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:37,040
accumulate more than it's kind
of like if you're a real estate

436
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,200
investor in New York City and
you want to express something in

437
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,680
Atlanta, you just can't go to
Atlanta.

438
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,720
You're going to hire people that
know Atlanta, right?

439
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,400
So maybe you'll hire a fund that
knows the Atlanta.

440
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,720
So it's kind of like you're,
you're buying talent, right?

441
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,160
Yeah, it's a bit like that.
And what I, what I love about

442
00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,920
the crypto space is whatever
background people come from,

443
00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,840
whether they're a hedge fund
investor, VC investor,

444
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,520
technologist, lawyer, whatever
it is when they get into crypto

445
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,440
or as you start to do it.
I've seen a lot of people who's

446
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,200
like lives and careers and you
know, passions has been

447
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,560
revitalized because everybody
has to do more.

448
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,520
You have to become more.
You have to learn about the

449
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,920
hedge fund manager has to learn
about technology and

450
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,760
regulations.
The VC has to learn about

451
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,880
markets and regulations and
technology.

452
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,560
And again, the technologist has
to learn about all these things

453
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,960
that they never cared about and
then add in community and add in

454
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,040
marketing and all these these
other pieces to it.

455
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,760
Another interesting framework
look like when a lot of REITs

456
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,120
were introduced, it gave ways
for investors to get exposure to

457
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,520
a number of different different
types of real estate or

458
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,680
different types of other assets
in a group or diversified way

459
00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,800
and get exposure in very narrow
or very wide things in different

460
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,400
areas around the world.
In some ways, when I think about

461
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,240
what these digital asset
treasuries are providing,

462
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,680
they're providing exposure to
get investment exposure into

463
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:56,600
these entire new digital asset
ecosystem.

464
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,000
So just for example, like I
mentioned, finance itself has

465
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,680
over 300 million users today.
B&B, it's estimated that

466
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:08,080
somewhere between 8090% of those
users hold B&B and use B&B as a

467
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,040
as a way to get reduced trading
fees on finance exchange.

468
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,560
Similarly, the total universe of
holders of B&B is likely over

469
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,600
300 million today.
So that's an economy of 300

470
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,240
million people that exists all
over the world.

471
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,680
That's one of the largest
economies in the world.

472
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,280
A lot of the activities of those
people are only using as of now

473
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,040
B&B for a small amount of their
activities.

474
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,240
So an interesting kind of bet to
think about these 300 million

475
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,280
people, my bet is that if right
now, today, 1%, five percent,

476
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,120
10% of all of their activities
are done through B&B or through

477
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:42,520
BTC.
Over time, the percentage of

478
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,640
activities they're going to do
is they're going to be utilizing

479
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,640
BNB and BTC for a higher percent
than today.

480
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,720
So that's an interesting way to
frame it.

481
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:55,960
Yeah, By the way, I did look at
all the things that finance is

482
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,520
involved in and it's outrageous.
I mean they they're touching

483
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,440
every part of the digital
ecosystem.

484
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,040
It's out of control.
I mean, it probably in control,

485
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:09,280
but out of control in terms of
how broad based it is.

486
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,560
It's like super crazy.
Well, that so actually since you

487
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,480
picked up on that, one of the
ways that I came up with this

488
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,760
kind of narrative and trying to
explain to people too that

489
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Bitcoin a lot of people have
gotten comfortable with this

490
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,920
idea that it's this digital
gold, right?

491
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,920
Importantly, as as gold has
skyrocketed this year, I look at

492
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,560
it, you know, gold went to, you
know, 10 to 20 trillion market

493
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,760
cap and bitcoins at 2 trillion
today.

494
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,200
I look at it that the next
ceiling for Bitcoin has only

495
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:41,040
gone up and I still do expect
and expect that Bitcoin will

496
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,280
surpass the market cap of gold.
So as of right now, that's, you

497
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,760
know, 10 times from here.
Now, all of these other digital

498
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,920
assets, Ethereum's at 500
billion, BM BS at 130 billion,

499
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,440
120 billion today.
So when I think about the kind

500
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,920
of where these could be headed,
I see these also as multi

501
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,760
trillion dollar assets.
Ethereum has kind of won out as

502
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,920
this digital oil narrative.
It's not a digital gold, it's

503
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,000
not a store of value.
It's a little bit more like a

504
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,360
commodity that you burn, right?
And it's one on the stable coin

505
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,400
theme that a lot of people have
gotten excited about so far.

506
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:15,160
BMB is a little bit more of this
kind of digital infrastructure

507
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,840
and or digital GDP.
It touches every area of the

508
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,920
crypto space.
So in some ways it is your like

509
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:26,200
ETF or your, you know, BMB
itself gives you this exposure

510
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:27,800
to everything in crypto.
Yeah.

511
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:31,800
So let's, let's, it's super
impressive because I, I know how

512
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,320
much money you've raised and
your relationships are important

513
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,200
and that's how you did it.
But coming into this and

514
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,040
deciding to do it, thinking
about it, deciding to do it.

515
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,680
And in a in a very short period
of time, there's four or $500

516
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,840
million you raised to go into
this treasury company.

517
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:53,680
I mean, that's even in today's
terms, that's a lot of money,

518
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,320
right.
So what were the aside from the

519
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,520
relationship capital you have
that allowed you to talk to

520
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,680
people that had the money that
could express it with you, What

521
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:03,840
is it that put them over the
edge?

522
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,720
And sure, maybe you can discuss
some of the pushback that

523
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,080
because that's often helpful,
right?

524
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,960
Sure.
So I think, you know, we did

525
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,840
this deal through July and it
was completed I believe August

526
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,160
5th.
And so really the last couple

527
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,080
months.
So you know, at the time of the

528
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,960
deal, really like there were a
number of Bitcoin treasuries

529
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,960
that people were focused on and
they're seeing the success of

530
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,760
those there.
There had been really two or

531
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,920
three Ethereum focused
treasuries that stood out and

532
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,960
now over the last couple months
they managed to raise 15 to $20

533
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,520
billion to invest into Etherium.
Lana as being the 4th or 5th

534
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,840
largest crypto asset has also
managed to attract, I believe

535
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,000
it's about 6 to $8 billion so
far.

536
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,360
And like I said, this was the
one that was the most overlooked

537
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,200
and I believe undervalued.
And so from there, it was really

538
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,720
just about sharing a lot of
these metrics and sharing the

539
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,160
opportunity I saw.
And I fully expect that there

540
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,960
are going to be a couple of
other B&B focused treasuries and

541
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,600
hopefully raise a couple billion
more that see the same

542
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,120
opportunity.
You know, there's definitely

543
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,680
been particularly outside the US
and in Hong Kong and Japan.

544
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,120
I know there's a lot of momentum
in Korea as well, where people

545
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,480
are actively trying to do a
similar strategy and they're

546
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,280
much more familiar with B&B out
there.

547
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,000
The the crypto communities
because they use, they use the

548
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,080
exchange.
Do you think that I think all

549
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,600
boats rise and it might be true
with digital assets as well, but

550
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:36,560
do you think that Coinbase being
so prominent in the US might

551
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,920
want to keep finance out of the
US?

552
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,960
Not to say that they could, but
would that give them a little

553
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,360
agita?
Absolutely.

554
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,200
I mean, this is where now I like
to say I came up with this

555
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,320
phrase that crypto is the most
non 0 sum game the world's ever

556
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,840
seen.
And So what I love about it is

557
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,840
most people, they come to the
crypto market and like I said,

558
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,360
they get revitalized.
They find different things to be

559
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,840
passionate about and they're
constantly learning and they're

560
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:04,160
looking at creating new systems
and new ways to capture value

561
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,880
and realize what value and
financial value transfer even is

562
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:09,000
or could be.
Right.

563
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:12,320
And for there's some areas
within crypto which are a little

564
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,040
bit more competitive, like
between exchanges where they're

565
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,360
competing for, you know, between
themselves.

566
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,560
And so definitely there's
certain markets where they step

567
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,160
on each other's footsteps.
And, and I heard Coinbase is

568
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,200
recently trying to expand into
the Middle East.

569
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,960
And so, you know, I think
there's been some lobbying and

570
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,920
other stuff by some US exchanges
to keep some of the foreign

571
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,280
exchanges out.
A couple months ago, there was

572
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,320
also some regulation, I think
introduced by CFTC of

573
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,600
potentially allowing US
customers to access offshore

574
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,960
crypto exchanges.
So whether or not, you know,

575
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,760
right now, US users are not
allowed to use many of the

576
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,080
offshore crypto exchanges.
So whether they come here or

577
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,560
not, if the regulations improve,
the US users will be able to

578
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,240
access that.
So now at the same time, there's

579
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,880
always some collaboration.
And I believe, you know,

580
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,960
Coinbase, like I said, had
recently added BNB as a token.

581
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,800
So it's very hard when you're
one of the 3rd or 4th largest

582
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,880
crypto assets.
It's hard for Coinbase to

583
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:07,600
justify.
Not putting it on the exchange

584
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,040
yet.
Yeah, because your customers are

585
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,680
going to demand it.
It's that simple, right?

586
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,480
So let's get into the weeds a
little bit right now.

587
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:20,920
Before the pipe, the IT was it
was a public company that you

588
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,000
merged into together.
I'm going to get this partially

589
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,320
wrong, but essentially the
opportunity to get into the

590
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,160
company before it went public is
over.

591
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,640
And so now the good news is that
you can buy into the public

592
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,520
company just like any other
shareholder in any other

593
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:37,360
company.
Right.

594
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,720
And so for a little bit of
context on the company, it's ACA

595
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,040
industry.
So it had been focused on

596
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,080
agricultural equipment and then
had recently completed an

597
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,200
acquisition of a chain of vape
stores in Canada called Fat

598
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,760
Panda.
And so through that process the

599
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,400
there, the ticker had been VAPE
when we first did the

600
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,880
transaction and then we soon
after, I believe a week later,

601
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,600
we changed the ticker to BNC.
And so this way BNC, it's a

602
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,360
little bit closer to BNB and it
kind of fits with the potential

603
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,240
name of the treasury business as
BNB Network Company and BNC was

604
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,640
also the original ticker of BNB
as finance token, so.

605
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,960
There we go.
I didn't know that.

606
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,000
History of it during the
transaction, you know, we did a

607
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,480
$500 million PIPE, which
actually could scale to 1.25

608
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,040
billion because there's 750
million of warrants at a 50%

609
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:31,440
premium to where the PIPE was
done.

610
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,840
And then now we've been, you
know, it's a couple months past

611
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,160
that.
And as we've been executing on

612
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,800
the, the BMB treasury strategy
we've announced a couple weeks

613
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,440
ago, we've accumulated now over
500,000 BMB tokens.

614
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:49,200
It's valued over 460, four, 170
million today executing on that.

615
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,320
It also exists, you know,
because of the conditions in the

616
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:55,200
market that investors can see
based on where the market cap of

617
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,000
the company is today that like
many of the other digital asset

618
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,520
treasuries are also trading at a
discount.

619
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,080
They're on sale.
They're on sale, yeah.

620
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,360
So actually it's serendipity,
right?

621
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,800
As a result, now you can buy the
public shares at a discount to

622
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,360
its underlying asset value,
right?

623
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,440
So, so yeah, So what I'd say I
always have to be careful about

624
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:15,880
how I share about this.
But I guess the way I think

625
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,520
about it is like, look, as
somebody who's been investing

626
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,080
into crypto for a long time, as
someone who's been investing

627
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,840
into digital asset treasuries,
what I can tell you is I would

628
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,920
expect, right, this is for me
personally, this is the best

629
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,880
opportunity I've seen to invest
and get crypto exposure, right.

630
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,880
And it's the first time I've
ever seen where really people

631
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,760
have a multiple different ways
to get exposure to crypto assets

632
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,680
at this significant discount to
the crypto assets that they

633
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,200
hold.
Now the key nuance is whether

634
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,840
the people believe that the
management team will to take all

635
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,600
the steps necessary to really
focus on driving and increasing

636
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,080
the shareholder value in the
medium and long term.

637
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,200
That some people, there's a lot
of bankers out there, the

638
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,760
bankers and lawyers have made a
lot of money this year and

639
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,400
there's a lot of them that are
still out there pitching kind of

640
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,320
very predatory deals that aren't
very really value accretive or

641
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,080
long term value accretive to the
shareholders.

642
00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,960
So it's important to resist and
also important to avoid taking

643
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,920
on very onerous debt or anything
like that, because some people,

644
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,440
in order to grow their balance
sheets, are taking on a lot of

645
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,000
debt and convertible debt to
accumulate more of the

646
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,360
underlying asset.
Now that works when everything's

647
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,240
growing and going in.
One Direction.

648
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,640
But a lot of times the, the
investors into the convertible

649
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,280
debt, they don't actually care
what the underlying asset is,

650
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:29,880
whether it's Bitcoin, Ethereum,
anything.

651
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,440
They just care that they have a
claim on it and they usually

652
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,880
short sell the stock.
So it, it creates this adverse

653
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,800
incentives having, you know,
I've been very adamant about,

654
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,640
you know, and with other
treasury companies and ones I

655
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,840
invest in, of trying to find
people that are, you know,

656
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,880
creating the same footing for
all investors where everybody's

657
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,680
motivated to see the value of
the assets and the value of the

658
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,480
equity go up overtime.
Is it important to understand or

659
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,840
that the public company that was
in bought the vape stores?

660
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,880
Is that still an ongoing
business or it doesn't matter?

661
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,160
Well, I mean, so it's still
operating.

662
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,040
I was joking.
And you've met my mother.

663
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,120
She was actually quite happy.
She's recently got addicted to

664
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,480
vaping somehow in the last
couple.

665
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,840
Years, she was very happy we
could see that she.

666
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,920
Was happy when she saw the
ticker vape and thought I did it

667
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,680
and you know in her honor it.
Was.

668
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:18,600
Really sad when I changed the
ticker.

669
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,200
No.
So it's an interesting scenario

670
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,200
and it's actually it's operating
pretty well and it's a growing

671
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,640
business.
You we made sure because

672
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,960
actually there was some
limitations because the business

673
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:28,720
in the past had touched
cannabis.

674
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,880
So we made sure that there's no
part of the business that

675
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,120
touches cannabis because that
limits some of the brokerages

676
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,920
from allowing people we can
access it or invest in it.

677
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,680
So we've just tried clearing up
some of those little nuances.

678
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,520
But yeah, but as of now, it just
touches tobacco and has nothing

679
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:43,840
to do with cannabis or anything
like that.

680
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,560
But the business is growing
decently and, you know, it's

681
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,080
cash flow positives.
It's something that over time I

682
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,760
would expect as an investor into
treasury companies, people that

683
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,960
are running these strategies are
more focused on kind of

684
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:01,160
companies more related to the
crypto business and to get out

685
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,280
of those legacy businesses.
But as long as they're not a.

686
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,560
Drag for.
Hurting it, you know, it's, I

687
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,040
think there's value in them.
So right now somebody can just

688
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,880
go on to their brokerage
account, go into Robin Hood, go

689
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,679
in wherever they buy their
shares and just buy BNC.

690
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:20,159
That's right.
And.

691
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:23,199
And then you know, there's,
there's a number of the

692
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:26,800
information out there really is
imperfect around a lot of these

693
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,120
treasury companies.
There's a company you probably

694
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,360
know or met the guys at
Blockworks.

695
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,679
Blockworks puts out a treasury
dashboard.

696
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,000
You know, some of their metrics
are off in the exact figures

697
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,400
that they put out, but it's a
pretty good starting point is

698
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,440
that shows the holdings of
different digital asset

699
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,679
treasuries.
And there's a couple of other

700
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,600
kind of dashboards like that
that people have put out.

701
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:48,840
Yeah, I just looked at the one
that one, yeah.

702
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,239
Is that a better place to look
even though it's not perfect

703
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,800
then for example, the reporting
that Robin Hood might do and I'm

704
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,080
not asking you to opine on the
the the efficacy of either one.

705
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,720
I'm just saying if would you as
somebody that's listening to

706
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:09,000
this and wanted to buy it, do
you you want to look at both

707
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,800
places for example?
Well, Robin Hood, I actually

708
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,880
haven't seen what they've put
out specifically.

709
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,360
Actually, Vlad was just here the
CEO for a dinner last weekend

710
00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,240
here in Puerto Rico and Dorado.
And I think, I mean, it's been

711
00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:22,960
amazing everything they're doing
now.

712
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,400
One thing I just applied, like I
also always try to urge a lot of

713
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,040
caution to people and anything
like as you brought up, right,

714
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,320
try to protect people because I
don't want anyone making one

715
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,360
investment into the crypto space
and getting hurt.

716
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,120
Or you know, I came up with
actually this term a couple

717
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,680
years ago too, that, you know,
it's kind of what I called the

718
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,080
Robin Hoodization of the
financial markets where

719
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,080
unfortunately for a lot of the
younger generation of Robin Hood

720
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,480
helped dumb down investing and
turning investing into trading

721
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,000
and gambling and through zero
day options.

722
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,360
And so that's why I really try
to like focus on giving people

723
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:59,000
information and education and
seeing the broader opportunity

724
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,320
and then finding the right entry
points into that.

725
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,600
Yeah, yeah.
Got to be careful winging it

726
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,520
doesn't work for sure.
Yeah.

727
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:10,520
So what else can you talk about
as it relates to the elements

728
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,920
that may have caused the a
little bit of a depression in

729
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,240
the share price and is it
largely the crypto market,

730
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,920
digital asset market that
dragged it down?

731
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,520
Is there other elements that you
can share?

732
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,240
Sure.
I think some of this, like one

733
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:28,200
of the other narratives I've
been kind of trying to share a

734
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,760
little bit is I think it's a bit
of a what's created the

735
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,400
opportunity today is that it's a
bit of a timing mismatch of

736
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,560
capital.
So during a lot of these PIPE

737
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,920
transactions that you know, the
digitalized treasuries have done

738
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,120
over the past year, a lot of
them hedge funds and traditional

739
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,720
finance institutions that
invested were in it for like 1

740
00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:49,280
to 30 day trades, right?
They want to just be in it.

741
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,560
If they made 1%, ten percent,
25%, they were happy and move on

742
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,840
to the next trade.
A lot of the crypto investors,

743
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,120
VCs, family offices, they were
in it for kind of one to six

744
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,360
months or 1 to 12 month time
frames.

745
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,240
And they were hoping that the
digital asset treasury wave and

746
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,920
the euphoria would continue and
they make 50 to 2 or 300% / 1 to

747
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,280
six months and then cycle the
capital to the next one.

748
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,080
There are very investors.
I know there are some investors,

749
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,600
VCs that set up digital asset
treasury, focused funds,

750
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,560
specific vehicles for it.
And the goal was they put the

751
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,760
capital in, they told their
investors it was a six to

752
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,320
eight-month trade and to get all
the capital back, right?

753
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,280
So they're kind of bound by
that, the strategy going into

754
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,200
it.
So now it's been three to five

755
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,120
months since a lot of these
digital treasuries, you know,

756
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:34,600
digital asset treasury pipes
were done.

757
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:37,240
And so now it's this timing
mismatch where a lot of that

758
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,240
capital just wants to come out.
And when one or two of them

759
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,680
didn't do so well, right, they
started panicking or just trying

760
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,280
to get out of them at any cost.
You know, to me, it's a, I'm

761
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,600
still personally a bit shocked
that anybody would sell the

762
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,000
equity of these things at a
discount to what the assets are

763
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,840
because people, particularly the
crypto investors, know and

764
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,640
understand and realize the value
of these assets better than most

765
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,320
of the other investors.
So a lot of what, you know, I'm

766
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,360
focused on now is really sharing
this story and sharing just the

767
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,800
opportunity broadly that I think
exists across digital asset

768
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,920
treasuries trading at 20 to 50%
discounts to their Navs and

769
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,880
sharing it with new
institutional investors and new

770
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,320
and retail investors.
And so to me, it's a, again,

771
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,440
it's a pretty genuine thing to
be able to be out there and say

772
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,200
you believe in the B&B story as
I do, and you believe that the

773
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,600
value of these assets and it's
important asset in the crypto

774
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,040
space that should increase in
value over time.

775
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,040
Well, to be getting in an even
better entry point than with an

776
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,960
asset value, you know, seems
like a pretty unique opportunity

777
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,640
in the crypto space.
So it does and I agree with

778
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:43,720
that.
Is there I don't know what the

779
00:38:43,720 --> 00:38:47,120
regulatory issues around this or
just bail if they're you can't

780
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,440
talk about it or can a pint on
it.

781
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:52,360
Is there a secondary market from
the Corp?

782
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,240
Like if somebody wanted to take
$10 million of their $100

783
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:59,160
million investment into the
company because they needed to

784
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,640
pay back their, in your example,
the venture LP's, is there a

785
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,040
marketplace for that?
So it's not quite, I wouldn't

786
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,920
think of that as a secondary
market.

787
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,520
I think there have been a couple
of investors that have

788
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,800
expressed, I think there have
been some blocked trades that

789
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,200
are done.
So Cantor was our lead banker on

790
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,760
the pipe and they've been very
active.

791
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,160
And actually, I was just at a
Cantor Crypto and AI conference

792
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,600
in Miami this week I was
speaking at and it was actually

793
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,680
one of the surprisingly best
crypto events and best

794
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,000
conferences of the year because
Cantor's really cemented

795
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,120
themselves.
They've leveled up as a bank and

796
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:33,720
they've cemented themselves as
being one of the best.

797
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,360
You know, banks really focused
heavily and kind of welcoming a

798
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,120
lot of crypto entrepreneurs and
investors and just very high

799
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,480
quality across the board.
So Cantor, a lot of investors

800
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,760
are going through them and there
there is some opportunity

801
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,880
occasionally for them to cross
out blocks and everything.

802
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:51,360
Yeah, good.
That's good to know.

803
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,200
I think a lot of people in the
audience would, would, would

804
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,760
like that opportunity given the
opportunity and their interest

805
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,240
level in this, even though you
can buy the shares at a pretty

806
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,200
good discount right now, right?
Yeah.

807
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,920
So actually with something I,
I'm still trying to get some

808
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,440
data on, but it's interesting
and you know, publicly available

809
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,400
is even in the most recent with
13 F filings, just the one thing

810
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,240
that stood out was a Vanguard.
Actually, it looks like it took

811
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,560
a, you know, maybe almost 2 1/2
to 3% position.

812
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,200
And I was just trying to clarify
to make sure they're not just

813
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,360
holding it for, you know, it's
not customers custodying with

814
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,960
them.
And it looks like it, you know?

815
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:30,400
There's a little legit a number.
Of Vanguard funds and then even

816
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,600
Fidelity, it looks like it took
a very tiny, tiny position, but

817
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,320
that was as of September, so
it's possible that's changed

818
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:38,280
since then too.
How exciting is that?

819
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,440
Wow.
So how is the valuation, How's

820
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,920
the valuation?
You know, the public markets are

821
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:52,520
markets that assign a valuation
on the net present value, the

822
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,640
future value of the companies.
I mean they're generally

823
00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,560
prognosticating in the future
and aggregating that value at a

824
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,520
share price.
Is that true for the treasury

825
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,280
companies as well?
So I think that's a that's a

826
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,400
great question because I think
that's part of the confusion

827
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,160
here that's created this
opportunity is that people don't

828
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,040
quite understand what the future
value and potential value of

829
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,240
these treasury companies could
look like as they start to

830
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,840
utilize their balance sheets and
and really generate different

831
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,240
opportunities and different
operating cash flows.

832
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,280
So some of it is through
staking, some of it's through

833
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:29,920
other revenue generating
opportunities.

834
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,880
But eventually, you know, one of
the other ways I framed it is

835
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,800
that we were kind of in this
accumulation phase where Michael

836
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,600
Saylor, all these other digital
asset treasuries are focused on

837
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,760
accumulating as much as they can
of these important scarce

838
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:44,800
digital assets.
And then we're going to get into

839
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,800
this kind of operating phase of
now what people do with those

840
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,720
balance sheets or what these
companies can look like.

841
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:51,960
So Michael Saylor has talked
about becoming more of like a

842
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,840
Bitcoin bank.
Some people look at these

843
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,800
businesses like these become the
future banks, Oregon, future

844
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,720
endowments.
Yeah, that they're the ones that

845
00:41:59,720 --> 00:42:02,240
actually.
Kicking off, kicking off money.

846
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:03,320
Yeah, yeah.
Right.

847
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,200
And not only hold a lot of this
valuable asset, but then also

848
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,080
help drive value to that whole
ecosystem.

849
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,600
And through that could be
through staking, through

850
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,320
lending, through a number of
other activities.

851
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:18,960
And what can we talk about that
has to do with the token and its

852
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,200
scarcity for Binance?
Is it, is that, you know, is

853
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,920
that the traditional
tokenization where you're

854
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,000
burning things or is there a
limited supply like Bitcoin?

855
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,400
You know, can you talk a little
bit about that?

856
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,240
And if there's anything that you
think that could go wrong, all

857
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:38,640
of a sudden he opens up another,
you know, $10 billion worth of

858
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,680
tokens and it causes the the
value of the token to get

859
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,360
depressed.
I know that's extreme and

860
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,160
probably not true.
No, but all fair questions like

861
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,280
it's important to think through
these things because people have

862
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,520
all the kinds of worries when it
comes to crypto because it's so

863
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,080
new and you know, still so new
and novel.

864
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,320
And so now that's another
important reason why I've honed

865
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:01,000
in on BNB compared to Solana,
Etherium and Bitcoin.

866
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,560
So Bitcoin has a cap supply, as
you said, and we're getting very

867
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,040
close to that.
But the final bitcoins, the rate

868
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,360
of new supply is decreasing, but
the final bitcoins won't be

869
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:14,120
mined for another 100 years.
Now, Etherium has a slight

870
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,640
inflation, so of maybe between 1
to 5% a year.

871
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,480
The staking yields on 8th are
also about, you know, one to

872
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:24,000
four, one to 5% a year.
So it's kind of matching the

873
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,240
inflation.
Solana also has an inflating

874
00:43:26,240 --> 00:43:28,440
supply and the staking yields
are a little bit higher,

875
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,360
anywhere from kind of four to
six or 7% BNB.

876
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,440
Out of all the large crypto
assets, it's the only one that

877
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,680
actually has a deflationary
supply because there's a burn

878
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:42,920
mechanism that exists and it was
initially tied to the revenues

879
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,840
of Binance, but in order to not
be considered a security token

880
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,600
as it evolved into B&B chain,
what it did, it now has a

881
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,680
two-part burn mechanism. 1 is an
auto burn that exists in every

882
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:56,000
single transaction.
So whereas Ethereum, every

883
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,000
transaction uses a little bit of
gas to pay the miners, B&B has

884
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,280
that gas to pay the miners, but
it also has a tiny burn in place

885
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,000
as well.
So every single transaction that

886
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,680
has a tiny way of reducing
supply, there's also a quarterly

887
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,200
auto burn that has been reducing
that's based on the amount of

888
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:14,280
transactions, the amount of
blocks that exist.

889
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,800
So it's not directly tied to the
revenue of Vinance anymore, but

890
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,800
it's still every transaction,
every trade counts as a

891
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,480
transaction.
All of the activity still

892
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,080
contributes to the deflationary
aspects of it.

893
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,320
And just to give you a
perspective, as of a couple

894
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,840
weeks ago, the most recent
quarterly burn, I think it was

895
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,880
the 33rd quarterly burn, burned
over 1.4 million BNB, which at

896
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,880
the time was valued at 1.6 or
$1.7 billion.

897
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,480
So in terms of, you know,
compared to the other assets

898
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,360
that are inflating, you know,
this is the only one that now is

899
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,880
seeing a deflation of 4 to 5%
per year on the supply.

900
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,440
Wow, that's super interesting.
And even that two-part, the

901
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:55,840
two-part burn wasn't form over
substance to get the regulators

902
00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:59,240
to get settled with it.
You know, I, I wasn't part of

903
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:02,080
that decision making, but if I
analyze it like why I think

904
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,600
that's part of it, you know, as,
as these tokens and kind of

905
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,480
crypto assets and people who are
working on them try to come up

906
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,640
with ways to evolve and improve
and make them more robust.

907
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,520
It was a key step to making it
really much more robust.

908
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,120
Yeah, that makes sense.
And so is there a way that more

909
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,560
tokens can get issued as far as
you know?

910
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,320
No.
And and actually another

911
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,440
interesting thing that you know,
it's kind of been framed to me

912
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,320
is well, look, some people worry
about the total amount of

913
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,800
holdings of CZ or any any other
large holders out there.

914
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,280
There are early whales and in
any crypto ecosystem, people

915
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,720
worry are constantly tracking
when large amounts of Bitcoin

916
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:44,040
move or oh, this person held
Bitcoin since 2014 and now is

917
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,640
selling a billion dollars worth.
So people are always tracking

918
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,120
that across this.
One of the kind of ways to think

919
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,960
about this is that if you look
at compared to Elon Musk, Bezos,

920
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,160
Zuckerberg, all of these other
guys that are, you know, have

921
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,240
built some of the biggest and
most important companies in the

922
00:45:58,240 --> 00:45:59,880
world.
All of them actually have

923
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,640
massive cash burns to fund all
of their expensive hobbies.

924
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,640
So they need to be constantly
selling their equity and, you

925
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,160
know, taking cash out to pay for
their hobbies.

926
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,960
You're not going to live
forever.

927
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,720
You might as well enjoy it.
I mean, it's part of the whole

928
00:46:13,720 --> 00:46:18,120
idea, right?
So now CZ has a massive cash

929
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:20,160
flowing business in Binance,
right?

930
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:23,240
And I know him and he doesn't
have very many expensive hobbies

931
00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:25,640
he's funding, you know, Giggle
Academy and a couple, a couple

932
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,080
of other things.
And so, you know, they're really

933
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,520
about helping hundreds of
1,000,000 billions of people get

934
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,760
free education.
So he's focused on a lot of

935
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,880
really nice efforts and he has
no motivation or incentive to

936
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,880
sell BNB his incentives.
And he said this publicly.

937
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,040
Part of the purpose of finance
is to enhance and contribute to

938
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,480
the value of BNB.
So it gives me more and more

939
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:46,280
confidence.
I didn't say this before, but

940
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,600
BNB has outperformed even
Bitcoin over the last three

941
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,040
months, the last five years,
over the last eight years since

942
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,200
it's been since I've been
involved with this like I fully

943
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,880
expect, right?
I can't tell you what the exact

944
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,240
framework and where Bitcoin
heads from here, but I do expect

945
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:04,480
that B&B will continue to
outperform even Bitcoin over the

946
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,640
coming years.
Wow, that's big.

947
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,480
I mean, I know it's prediction,
but it's your opinion and that's

948
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:11,200
it.
Wow.

949
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,040
Yeah, he's an interesting
character.

950
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,760
I mean, only because I've seen.
I don't know him as you know,

951
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,760
but yeah.
Well, he, he's, he's working on

952
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:20,320
a book, I saw him say on
Twitter.

953
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,080
So when he puts it out, I'll get
quite a few copies and I'll send

954
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,320
you one.
That'll be awesome.

955
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,760
Yeah.
You, you look, look at you just

956
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,880
mentioned Bezos and they just
sent Blue Origin up.

957
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,760
That was like, how much did that
cost, right?

958
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:39,560
You got to have lots of money to
burn to do that because SpaceX

959
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,720
and and Blue Origin have blown
up things.

960
00:47:41,720 --> 00:47:43,200
And that's part of the learning
process.

961
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,000
Yeah.
Talk about burning.

962
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,320
Yeah, it's like total burn.
Exactly.

963
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,520
Very much a total burn of, you
know, investor and government

964
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,440
dollars.
Yeah, it's wild.

965
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,720
So this, this sounds like it's
been really good for you too.

966
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:02,200
It's like energizing for you,
right?

967
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,440
Yeah, absolutely.
Like this, I've been doing a lot

968
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,360
of stuff in the background and,
you know, in the space and a bit

969
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,800
more quietly.
I, I think this has been just as

970
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:12,840
the opportunity came up and it's
been something I've been very

971
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:16,080
passionately sharing and it's
not without its challenges.

972
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:18,240
And that's where fortunately,
having been through a lot of

973
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:22,400
cycles, you know, in the crypto
space, I can genuinely say that

974
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,280
I've been through this before.
This is some new challenges.

975
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,600
And that's why I'm eager and
excited to share this with

976
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,120
people because, you know, it's
something that I haven't seen or

977
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,120
I've rarely seen this kind of
opportunity come up.

978
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,480
And even for when I jumped into
this earlier in the year, the

979
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,120
opportunity for new investors is
actually even better than them.

980
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:41,520
So it's a pretty easy thing for
me to be out there sharing.

981
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,560
Yeah, not hard to talk about.
Well, I'm happy for you.

982
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,400
Really excited.
Appreciate that.

983
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,600
Thanks for doing this.
Is there anything else you want

984
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,240
to make sure everybody knows
before we jump off?

985
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,240
Well, I think you know,
recently, just another thing I

986
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:57,640
like to put out just about where
crypto is heading generally.

987
00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:01,400
Someone, someone had my other
friend George Kikwadze, who was

988
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:02,640
one of the founders of the
Bitfury.

989
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:05,440
He, he recently put out a book
and then we win or, and then you

990
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,120
win is the title.
And just talking about the long

991
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:10,320
journey, he founded one of the
earliest Bitcoin mining

992
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,000
companies, Bitfury.
They mined 1,000,000 Bitcoins

993
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,800
early on.
And I heard him recently talking

994
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:18,400
and a couple others have echoed
this sentiment that, you know,

995
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,880
when you think about the limit
or the price that Bitcoin can

996
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,240
get to or BNB or ETH or any of
these other digital assets, he's

997
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:26,360
like, well, as long as the
governments are going to

998
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,360
continue printing money and
there's no end to the, you know,

999
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,560
increase in the Fiat supply,
there's no limit to the value

1000
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:35,720
that Bitcoin and BNB and other
digital assets will reach.

1001
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:36,880
I think that's.
True.

1002
00:49:37,240 --> 00:49:39,200
That's a bet.
I'm pretty, I'm pretty happy to

1003
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,400
make, you know, going forward to
the next couple years and

1004
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,280
decades ahead.
Yeah, it doesn't matter and it

1005
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,320
and it really doesn't matter
what your politics are, but no

1006
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:50,560
matter how many tariffs are
imposed and how much money gets

1007
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:53,600
put into the US Treasury, I
just, I just posted a third

1008
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,840
party thing talking about which
countries have the most amount

1009
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:58,520
of debt.
And of course it's us in China.

1010
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,160
But the graphic was really
interesting because the US is

1011
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,080
here and everybody else is like,
you know, around it.

1012
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,520
But that's not going to end
anytime soon.

1013
00:50:06,720 --> 00:50:09,200
So I think that's a pretty,
pretty safe bet, right?

1014
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,560
Well correlated I think.
Absolutely.

1015
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,040
Thanks, David.
Wonderful.

1016
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,400
Yeah, it's been great.
Thank you for thanks for having

1017
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,120
me here.
And by the way, everybody, the

1018
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,640
Bloomberg interview that you did
is awesome.

1019
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,960
So if they want to look at that,
it's also super interesting,

1020
00:50:26,240 --> 00:50:29,320
particularly when the
interviewers actually knew what

1021
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:31,640
they were talking about.
And being that they were

1022
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,240
journalists on some level, they
often try to corner you.

1023
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:36,200
And that didn't work out so well
for them.

1024
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,360
That's what I'm saying.
You, you handled it really

1025
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:38,960
nicely.
Yeah.

1026
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:40,360
Yeah.
It's super good.

1027
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,800
Well, listen, I enjoyed being
here with you even more.

1028
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,600
Yeah, and I appreciate that.
So all right, listen.

1029
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:49,880
And I have to get you down to
Puerto Rico as well.

1030
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:52,160
We'll come.
Yeah.

1031
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,360
Yeah, that's easy.
So I'm going to hit the stop

1032
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:57,400
button, but stay on.
Thank you everybody for being

1033
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,080
with us and really appreciate
you spending the only thing you

1034
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:01,520
can't make more of and that's
your time.

1035
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:02,640
Until next time.
Thanks.