Unlocking Leadership Potential in Startups.

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Hello, everybody.
Thank you for joining us in

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another episode of Arthur's
Round Table.

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Super grateful for the family
office insights community

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dialing in and listening and
sharing it as you have.

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Thank you very much for that.
We have a lot of interesting

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people that have been on and we
have another one today.

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I think you'll enjoy what Logan
has to say, especially if you're

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an investor looking to deploy
capital into a company and a

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company looking to to credential
what they're doing on some

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level.
So we're going to learn all

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about that today.
So Logan, thanks for being here.

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If you want to start at the
beginning, that would be

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awesome.
Thanks so much for having me

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Arthur.
And I just love the Arthur's

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Round table.
I just love that as a as a name.

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Easy, right?
Takes us back to, you know, days

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of yore.
So my story is that, you know,

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I've made a lot of observations
about people and teams in my

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profession, which has mostly
been in the impact investing

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world.
So I've spent a lot of time in

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private equity and early stage
investing, deploying capital and

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raising money for financial
products and for businesses that

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make a difference in the world.
And that's primarily been in

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agriculture and forestry in the
past, some ocean related

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investing.
And along the way, I made a lot

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of observations that leadership
capacity or lack thereof or team

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dynamics, we're inhibiting these
projects, these businesses,

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these financial products from
being more successful.

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And so even though my training
is in mostly in the finance

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world and business, I started
wondering if there was a way, a

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better way to evaluate leader
leadership readiness, improve

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team dynamics in a more
systematic way, and create

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situations where people
analytics and and people

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dynamics were improved so that
we could actually have better

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outcomes.
We've all had experiences where,

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you know, we didn't get along
with our manager or there was

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some issue in a team dynamic
that prevented something from

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happening that we really wanted
to happen.

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And so this is not like a
problem that is small.

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And so going along in my career,
I started at an environmental

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think tank.
I, I moved into the investing

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world in my mid 20s.
I went to Yale Business School

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and got a master's degree in
forestry and an MBA.

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I worked for Morgan Stanley, a
family office network, and I

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started my own sell side
advisory firm and that's

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basically what I did.
In addition to a farmland

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investing, I worked at a
Farmland Investing Group private

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equity firm right before I
started this company.

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Nice.
So yeah.

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So it's, it's not as simple as,
you know, when you have people

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working together, there's a very
strong likelihood that people

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have different agendas and
they're not going to get along.

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I mean, it's not that simple,
right?

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Because that happens all the
time.

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And so is your assessment in
your business, which we'll talk

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about in detail if you like, go
beyond the leadership readiness

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or is it totally focused on
that?

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Well, it's as, as you said, it's
often, you know, these, these

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solutions are more complex when
you dig in, but the basic

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problem we're solving is a
mismatch of the right leaders in

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the right place.
You know, like whether a leader

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is ready to take on the
complexity and pressure of a

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role and whether they're going
to be successful in execution

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of, of what they need to do to
be successful in that role.

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And so I can break that down a
little bit for for startups, we

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have developed an assessment
tool that looks at six kind of

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core constructs that are
relatable and important for an

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early stage startup environment,
which is high pressure and high

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complexity.
And so we're looking at things

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like how coachable is this
person?

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How good are they at pivoting
when they need to strategically,

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but keeping their eye on the
prize?

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How good are they at relational
intelligence?

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What about team climate IQ?
How good are they creating a

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presence of psychological safety
so their team feels motivated to

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work with them like these are?
These are some of the things

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that we can tease out using the
transcript data that we pull

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from interviews and from
presentations.

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So that's that was going to be
my next question.

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Thanks for doing that.
So when people do an assessment

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like I haven't had a job for,
you know, 40 years.

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So I don't know what.
It's you're your own boss.

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Well, I don't know who's the
boss, but it's just the, the I

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haven't had the opportunity to
apply for a job.

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So I don't know what that
process is like.

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And not, this is not about me,
but I also don't hire anybody

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because I'm terrible at it.
So I let other people do that.

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But the often times you can game
against a questionnaire, right?

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But what you just said is really
interesting because it's, it's

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part of it presumably is not a
questionnaire.

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It's looking at stuff that they
already done that they know

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they're not being questioned
about, right?

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Exactly.
Thank you for digging in on

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that.
So we can take any transcript

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data of you speaking, whether
it's in this conversation or a

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podcast, a presentation you
delivered or YouTube, you know,

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interview.
And we can take, if we have

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enough content, we can evaluate
you on a variety of different

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metrics or constructs, if you
will, and assess this leadership

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capacity component that we're
that we're, that I think is

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missing in most leadership
assessments.

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And AI is enabling us to do this
faster, cheaper and better than.

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I mean, it's you can just, well,
you know this already, but you

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can just drop a transcript into
chat TTP and say, OK, pull out

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the key wisdom notes of this.
And and then of course it makes

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mistakes and all that stuff, but
it would take an analyst, you

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have two days to do that, right?
Exactly.

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They have to listen, they have
to listen to the video or read

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the transcript.
And in three seconds, AII has

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already done that.
It's amazing, right?

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Yeah.
So humans develop along a a

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trajectory and this is studied
extensively in a what's called

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adult vertical development
theory.

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And so it's a body of psychology
that essentially can pinpoint

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where you are along your
developmental curve as a human.

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Being super interesting, right?
And so we're picking out the way

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you speak and the the patterns
that come out in how you tell

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stories and share perspective
that can pinpoint where you are

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along this trajectory.
And they're kind of just these

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different post along this, you
know, climbing a mountain,

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essentially there's these
different levels that you can

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reach.
And so it's not bad or good

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where you are, it's just it just
is.

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And then there's things you can
do to improve that and improve

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your capacity.
And where do you find so my one

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of my immediate reactions to
this was why would a founder

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subject themselves to this if
they thought the outcome might

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be detrimental to them either
raising money or getting

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investors?
And is it, is it potentially

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hazardous?
I think that's a such a

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interesting perspective that's
come up a number of times and I

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and I have what I think is a, a
good answer to it or at least

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perspective on it. 1 is that
everyone's always getting

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evaluated all the time.
And so how it works in the, in

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this in the early stage
investing world, at least from

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my experience and from doing a
lot of over 125 interviews with

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VCs and accelerators at this
point for this company alone is

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it's warm referrals, it's gut
checks and it's a reference

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check or two or 4.
And so it's a pretty informal

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process like how founders are
getting evaluated at this point.

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And there's this black box in
that gut feel that I just

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mentioned.
And so most people wouldn't say

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what you said, Arthur, that
you're not that great at, you

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know, hiring people and you have
other people do it.

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Most people think that they're
really good at reading people.

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And so we have this situation
where, yes, starting a company

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and running a startup is like,
it's, it's risky, but we have

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65% of companies failing because
of some kind of people problem.

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And so even if not all of that
is attributed to leadership

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capacity, you know, what we're
identifying, there's still some

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mismatch in between, you know,
someone's gut feeling and how

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they're evaluating the team or
the leader and the outcomes that

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we're seeing in terms of success
rates or why companies are

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failing.
And so my argument is, isn't

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this better than not having the
information like?

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You can as an investor for.
Sure.

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As an investor and for founders,
my what I'm my perspective is

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you're getting evaluated anyway.
Wouldn't you like to know some

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of the ways that you're getting
evaluated going into this?

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Like wouldn't it help level the
playing field a little bit if

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you had a sense that someone was
using better analytics to

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evaluate you instead of just
like a gut feel which could be

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quite bias?
Yeah, I, I would argue that a

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gut field is very bias.
I mean, it's by by its nature,

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right.
Which by the way, is again, it's

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not about me, but that's how I
operate, which is one of the

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reasons why I don't hire
anybody.

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Right.
But but you have self-awareness

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about the fact that you might
have biases.

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I mean, I think it's OK to, of
course you have to pay attention

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to your what your gut feel is
telling you.

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But I think often these patterns
that inform our gut feeling,

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like where are they coming from?
And I don't think enough people

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question the patterns that are
are behind those those instincts

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and some of them, yeah, so.
So use case, right, So what have

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you found so far that was
consistent with your intent to

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start the company?
Are you finding more revenue and

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engagement from the investors,
VCs and accelerators so forth,

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or more from the people
preparing to be invested in?

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So the original intent was very
much that the incentive would

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come from the investor and lead
invest, lead check writers

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essentially because they have
more authority to ask, you know,

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founders to take something like
this.

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And so I think one of the
interesting things that surfaced

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and that we found is that more
investors are interested in post

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check assessment and support.
So more investors are interested

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in, hey, I'm going to make the
decision on who I invest in, but

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then please come in and let's
get a baseline of this

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individual or team's capacity
and let's help them evolve over

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time.
Nice, That's actually probably

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more lucrative.
Yeah, for us because.

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Thinking about business case,
right?

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So forgive me, but you know
that's probably because the

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horse has already run out of the
barn.

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So let's help them get better,
right?

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Yes.
And I think that mitigates

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against what we were just
talking about where people feel

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like they, you know, part of
their job or part of their role

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or their special sauce is their
ability to read people.

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And so I think even if that's
right or wrong or even if

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they're good or not, that kind
of bypasses that argument or

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discomfort that we were, I think
experiencing when we first went

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out to market with this.
Yeah.

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And so how, how does that work?
You're interviewing the the

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business development part of it.
You're interviewing the VCs and

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the accelerators and you make
them aware of your service and

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then they say, OK, this makes
sense.

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So it's like a coaching model on
some level, right?

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Yeah.
So we, I mean this is new to the

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investing world.
I would say assessment tools and

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leadership development is a lot
more accepted in corporate

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environments like later stage
company environments.

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And so the venture capitalists
and accelerators I've talked to

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have this has been new to them
in terms of a tool.

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Very few have been using any
sort of leadership assessment or

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coaching.
And if they do, it's the

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coaching part's very informal or
they let the founder decide who

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coaches them.
So it's kind of a an interesting

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landscape.
And I think there's been a lot

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of education and just a lot of
like curiosity and just wanting

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to dialogue about, oh, I hadn't
thought of people analytics as

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like a layer of analytical
capability I could embed into my

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decision making.
And so, yeah, it's been

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fascinating from that
perspective.

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So is is it, again, forgive me,
I look at things in, in terms of

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business often times because
that's sort of my mindset as an

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investor.
But is this require, does the

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automation of AI make it so you
can scale the business so it's

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not just you doing the
assessment and interpreting the

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assessment?
I mean can can you take in 100

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companies and leaders to do this
on at scale?

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Yes, and that's one of the
things we're, you know, like

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any, any good startup ourselves
worth, we're pivoting at the

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moment and one of the big
insights has been getting people

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to sit down for 45 minutes to
take an assessment is quite

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onerous, especially for busy
founders.

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So it's been great that we can
now take transcript data from

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we, we can't just take a 5
minute clip like we need a

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00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,360
substantial body of transcript
data, but that again, can come

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from an interview or, you know,
a speech you delivered or a

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conversation you had.
And we can ingest that and get

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to the same results.
Where we would want a human

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intervention is if it was
somebody that we were going to

244
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,040
coach.
So we'd really want to ingest

245
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,920
and like probably listen to the
transcripts ourselves and really

246
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get into the the mindset of that
individual so that we could

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coach them.
But the vast majority of

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00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,920
assessment capabilities can now
be done with AI at a high degree

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of accuracy.
And what's the assessment is

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done?
What's the next step?

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So we create a with.
Just the AII mean.

252
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:58,320
Oh, with just the AI?
Yeah, without the where you do

253
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,360
the assessment with the
transcript and it gives an

254
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outcome that you are hoping to
achieve, whatever that outcome

255
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happens to be and then what?
So once we receive the score

256
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with the the basically the AI
gives us its its readout of the

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individual or team.
We can do this for Co founders

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00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,600
as well or or executive teams.
Once it does that, then we that

259
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,800
goes into a dashboard and so you
get a read out of your results.

260
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,280
And then if you want to go
deeper with coaching, then

261
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that's where we create a custom
coaching road map.

262
00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,240
You know, it's customizable,
depends on how deep or how long

263
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,520
you want to go, and then we take
it from there.

264
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So is the natural outcome to do
the coaching on a one to one

265
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basis?
It depends on since, you know,

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we have a client right now who's
very interested in using our

267
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capabilities to look at more
kind of more of a quick

268
00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,040
assessment of people that he's
interested in potentially

269
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bringing on to the team.
And so we haven't gotten to the

270
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point where we would coach them
yet because he just wants to do

271
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kind of the initial assessment.
And then others, we have a

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00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:21,520
perspective client who wants to
bring this to a larger VC firm

273
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,839
that has like 40 companies and
they would all need coaching.

274
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:28,160
And so, you know, we're kind of
just seeing a a variety of

275
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different appetites for the the
capability.

276
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:42,120
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So if the outcome is one that's

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on the continuing of really bad
and really good, somewhere in

278
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:53,320
the top third, is that give
someone comfort or does it have

279
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to be on the 99th percentile?
Oh, I think that's such a good

280
00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,040
question.
Yeah, it's you can get to a, you

281
00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,200
can run the tools.
So it's you can do a high,

282
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medium, low if you want to just
do a quick ranking, or you can

283
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:13,360
get into the numeric scoring and
look at specific flags.

284
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So for instance, say someone is
somewhat low on purposeful

285
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,200
agility, which is one of our
constructs, which means are they

286
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,280
good at pivoting quickly under
pressure while keeping the

287
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,280
mission in mind or like the the
goal of the of the company?

288
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:35,360
So say they're low on that, but
high on coach ability.

289
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:39,320
So that would kind of be a nicer
combination than the opposite

290
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:44,120
where someone was really good at
pivoting quickly, but was very

291
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,360
low on coach ability because
they might be pivoting and good

292
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,640
at like making those quick
decisions and being strategic,

293
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,160
but they're not taking in
information in a way that's

294
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strategic to their business.
And so they might be making an

295
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,080
ultimately kind of run off
course with an in a more of an

296
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,560
ego driven way and refuse to
listen to people as they start

297
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,120
to get stressed and so.
A bit of that.

298
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:11,960
Yeah.
So those are the kinds of

299
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,920
patterns you can identify pretty
quickly using this tool.

300
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:23,480
So without revealing your secret
sauce, what is the data set that

301
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:28,680
you're able to put this
transcript against that allows

302
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:32,280
you with confidence to come out
with an assessment that's

303
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,360
credible and I'm not that wasn't
a malicious question.

304
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,760
No, not at all.
I think the, the foundational

305
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:42,560
credibility is, is so important.
Well, this is where AI comes in.

306
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,040
And then my Co founder is, has
studied adult vertical

307
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,920
development for his entire
career.

308
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,520
So he's a psychologist and data
scientist with an MBA, which was

309
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,320
is sort of like an amazing
trifecta.

310
00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:00,160
So he was able to digest all the
literature we could find that

311
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:04,320
directionally.
Supported the constructs we we

312
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,720
chose, showing that there was a
positive correlation between

313
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:14,880
having a higher score on these
constructs or or exhibiting

314
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,040
these a higher ability along
these constructs and positive

315
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,280
startup success.
So we basically digested the

316
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,440
literature and we looked at
vertical development frameworks

317
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,480
as a mechanism to create the
backbone of the assessment.

318
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:39,120
And was any of it also data?
Well, I imagine it would be

319
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:45,240
really hard to assess, you know,
look at the cohort of companies

320
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:53,160
that were, you know, successful,
not successful, you know, wildly

321
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,880
successful.
You would have had to assess

322
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:03,320
those people to attain that data
to to show hold it against

323
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,840
somebody's transcript that
you've taken.

324
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,080
Now does that make sense that.
Yeah, like this question.

325
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:15,400
But I think you get my point.
This is by no means a perfect a

326
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,840
perfect approach, you know, like
there's always more validation

327
00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:25,240
we could do and it because this
particular construct of 6 didn't

328
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:30,200
exist as an assessment before.
We can't with, you know, perfect

329
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,920
confidence say, yes, if you have
high scores and all of these,

330
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,440
you're going to have a
successful company.

331
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:37,440
Or like even if you have four of
them, you're going to have a

332
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,480
more successful company.
But what we saw in the

333
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:45,680
literature is this, if you tend
to exhibit higher abilities in

334
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,040
these various areas, you're more
likely to have a successful

335
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,920
outcome, whether that's raising
an additional round or having an

336
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,160
exit.
Like leaders who exhibited these

337
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,080
qualities, we're more likely to
have a positive startup outcome.

338
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,800
And so you can't perfectly say
it was because they had

339
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,200
emotional.
But I think there's also this

340
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,800
dimension that I keep trying to
point back to from a business

341
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,360
perspective, which is wouldn't,
A, wouldn't you rather know this

342
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,160
about someone than not know it?
And B, doesn't it seem kind of

343
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:22,200
intuitive, if you will, or makes
sense?

344
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:27,000
A sense, A sense that you, if
you're more coachable, if, if

345
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,800
you're more emotionally
resilient, you're probably not

346
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,920
going to break down under
pressure as much as you would if

347
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,080
you had lower scores on that.
So I think there's still

348
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,480
validity in knowing this about a
person or team, you know, aside

349
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,640
from perfect correlations in in
the literature.

350
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,000
Well, I think what you said a
few times is it's you're better

351
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:53,360
off knowing it than not, right?
And so does it cost $5000 to

352
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:56,200
know this, $20,000 to know this?
How does it work?

353
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,920
It depends.
I mean we have a couple

354
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,800
dimensions to our pricing.
One is volume 1 is fully

355
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:10,120
automated versus some human
scoring and then the the third

356
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:14,360
component is coaching or not.
So it ranges from, you know, a

357
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:21,040
couple $100 to multiple $1000
depending on where you are in

358
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,600
that need or or range.
Yeah.

359
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,600
Yeah.
And there was, I'm not going to

360
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,800
remember the name of this, but
there was AVC that pitched on

361
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:39,400
Family Office Insights that only
invested in companies that would

362
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,680
engage some sort of coach that
they had on retainer.

363
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,160
OK, Yeah.
That was their prerequisites

364
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:52,920
that you know, and I can't
remember the name or I tell you,

365
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,600
I mean it, but it was just it,
it was the first time that I had

366
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,600
seen something like that, right?
And I've seen thousands, but

367
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,520
which doesn't mean it isn't
happening.

368
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,480
It just.
That's what I'm saying it's it's

369
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:11,840
surprising how little this is
how how little support that

370
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,240
companies are given, you know,
even post, you know, post check

371
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,160
writing.
I think a lot of venture capital

372
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:23,600
firms have or the industry
itself has accepted that 9 out

373
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,040
of 10 companies are gonna fail
and that they're just gonna

374
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,640
focus on one.
And I think that's an

375
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,640
interesting assumption or just
interesting acceptance.

376
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,240
And so yes, we're dealing in a
risky asset class, but at the

377
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,840
same time, what if you could
help just one more of those if

378
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:41,600
it if most of its people
problems?

379
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,720
What if you could help coach or
support a team that could have

380
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,640
made it, but they just fell
apart because of their.

381
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,320
Oh, well, I'm going to go on
record and say because they just

382
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,240
don't care.
And that's one of the issues

383
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,440
that people have with Venture
presently.

384
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,840
And and you have to break
Venture into multiple silos

385
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,000
because there's and recent
Horowitz, there's the next level

386
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,240
down and then there's everybody
else, right, right.

387
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,560
So of course there's some really
amazing professionals out there.

388
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,440
Yeah.
And so the, the, the VC business

389
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,160
for and it's changing and I
can't tell you whether it's good

390
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,760
or bad or how it's changing on,
but it's changing on some level

391
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:30,320
to, you know, not flushing 90%
or 95% of the investments.

392
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,960
And you know, the, the whole
model was based on, we'll give

393
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:38,360
you as much money as you need.
And when you don't perform

394
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,640
because money's the only
solution, then we'll just flush

395
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,800
it because we have two that is
going to be, you know, unicorns

396
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,720
or Deca unicorns, and that'll
make up.

397
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,480
And so be it.
And so that was like, you know,

398
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,000
Silicon Valley culture, not just
Silicon Valley, but largely,

399
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,960
yeah.
But it seems like the I'm

400
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,160
really, I have a curiosity
around this, which is what are

401
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,720
the LP's saying in the equation
like family offices or you know,

402
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,600
other LP's that are coming into
the venture firms like I wonder

403
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,240
why or what those conversations
are looking.

404
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,840
Like why would they put up with
it?

405
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:21,520
Yeah.
It's the same reason why you

406
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:28,080
paid Stevie Cohen 4 and 40 to
manage in his hedge fund,

407
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,680
because he produced, you know,
65%, you know.

408
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,480
You but if most VCs aren't
outperforming the market.

409
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:40,720
No, that's true.
And there's was Silicon Valley.

410
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,520
And again, I'm going on record.
I don't care.

411
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,640
You know, I have friends that OB
CS, you know, they're they did

412
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,920
an amazing job of creating FOMO.
Like, yeah, that was was their,

413
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,120
their they perfected it.
They said, oh, I'm not sure you

414
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,920
can get in, but maybe you can.
And so that's how I, you know,

415
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,000
and then when you have some
performance numbers behind you,

416
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
you had a couple of those
unicorns, then all of a sudden

417
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:16,400
the institutional money comes in
that shaves off 2% of their AUM

418
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,160
and gives it to you because you
performed and they accepted as

419
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:27,960
did the family offices as did
not as much because family, it's

420
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,760
hard to generalize about family
offices, but they tend to think

421
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:36,400
longer term and, and they tend
to that if they're going to go

422
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,160
swing for the fences on
something like that, it's a, you

423
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:43,240
know, very, very small increment
of their assets.

424
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,720
That's true.
They tend to you know, you don't

425
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,960
have to swing for the fences
when you've got $4 billion.

426
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,320
You know what for what?
For what purpose, right?

427
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:56,400
What's the point, right?
You don't need to make a

428
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,200
billion.
You just want to keep your stay

429
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,240
rich money.
Absolutely.

430
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,440
It depends, yeah.
I think you're in the right spot

431
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,800
though, although if I think
about it for a minute, there are

432
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:16,560
private equity firms that
actually, besides aggregating

433
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,640
businesses and then improving
their multiple because they're

434
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,200
of scale and they sell them off
to BlackRock.

435
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,760
You know, private equity might
be a really good place for you

436
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,920
to do this because the private
equity people are, again, I'm

437
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,360
generalizing and people
criticize me and I just don't

438
00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:36,240
care.
But they'll they tend to be more

439
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,560
thoughtful about their operating
companies.

440
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,120
Like they tend to say, let's
talk to Logan because you can

441
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,840
improve your dynamics within the
company so you can grow and we

442
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,520
can get better multiples.
And when you sell, you know.

443
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,840
Yes, and we are very interested.
In private equity might be a

444
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:57,560
better place for you.
I that, and you know, I don't

445
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,000
think I finished my sentence on
the on the other thread, but we

446
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,160
are pivoting essentially to what
we've been looking at is middle

447
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,240
market companies, but certainly
open to private equity.

448
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,400
But yeah, we're finding that you
know, venture is a bit informal

449
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,880
and doesn't is just isn't used
to using assessment tools and

450
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,360
things like that.
So while we definitely still

451
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,120
have clients in that, in that
space and we'll continue to sell

452
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,280
into that market, we're we're
pivoting so.

453
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,920
So tell me a little bit about
you founders and leaders in

454
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,920
companies, more so founders than
the leadership that you hire in

455
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:42,640
the C-Suite are usually pretty
egomaniacal, which is part of

456
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,680
the reason why they're
successful, because they're

457
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:50,840
running through walls, right?
How has it been so far on their

458
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,560
acceptance of the coaching?
Your question is.

459
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,360
And then they decide they want
coaching.

460
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:07,160
How is that working out?
Yeah, I mean, it's mixed again,

461
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,360
I think, I think we usually see
a correlation.

462
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,360
If someone is hesitant to take
an assessment, they're probably

463
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,480
a, they're probably going to
score lower on coach ability and

464
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,000
then they're not going to want
coaching.

465
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,040
I've heard a lot of responses at
this point across the board, as

466
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,080
you might expect.
But I've heard people say I'm

467
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,160
afraid to take this.
I've heard people say, you know,

468
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,600
I don't do this kind of thing.
I've heard people say this was

469
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,760
too long.
I've heard, you know, but I've

470
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,760
also heard we've had great
testimonials, you know, from

471
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,320
founders and investors saying,
wow, this was blew my mind.

472
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,160
This was incredible.
I can't believe how much

473
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,600
information you got about me.
So I think what I take it as is

474
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,320
if there's, if someone's willing
to take this assessment, I think

475
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,400
that says something in and of
itself.

476
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:58,200
And so those people are more
likely to be coachable or have

477
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,760
used coaches in the past.
And I think one of the things

478
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,640
with coaching is that such a
broad term, it's really the Wild

479
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,440
West at this point in terms of
what it what is a coach.

480
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,840
And so we're trying to bring
some stability and rigor to the

481
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,640
coaching industry as well.
Not to denigrate coaches, but

482
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,840
I've had a multitude of
different experiences with

483
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,280
coaches myself.
And what we're doing is

484
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,520
establishing a capacity baseline
along this vertical development

485
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,440
trajectory.
And it's very clear how you can

486
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,960
move people up.
And so it's, it's clear where

487
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,560
you're headed.
And I think that's where there's

488
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,560
a mismatch with a lot of coaches
where they're not necessarily

489
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:41,640
like taking you on a journey
that makes sense or that you can

490
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,440
see the the next step in I've
it's kind of been all across the

491
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:46,120
board.
Yeah.

492
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,480
Super interesting.
It's a little woo woo and I'll

493
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,640
admit it, but I've done the
human design evaluation.

494
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,040
Do you know what that is?
I haven't actually done that

495
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,720
one.
And it was massively valuable.

496
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,040
Oh, that's great.
I'm glad you had a good

497
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:08,080
experience.
It was, it basically pointed out

498
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:11,600
what I already knew.
But you know how when you read a

499
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,200
book and it you have the story
and you go, wow, I could never

500
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,320
put that in the words, but
that's exactly what it was.

501
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,240
It was more of that type of
experience.

502
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:25,520
And it also was spot on in its
valuation like this categories.

503
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,040
And I'm a manifest generator,
which is exactly what I've been

504
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,880
doing all my life, right?
You know, I can't work for

505
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,200
anybody and you know, all that
kind of stuff.

506
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,200
But it was, you know, it's woo
woo, I admit it.

507
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,400
But it was really, really
interesting.

508
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,000
And I went into it with a little
bit of reluctance.

509
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:52,320
But once it you know, it was a
good evaluator, it really

510
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:56,240
pointed out some massively
valuable things that I then took

511
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,960
and accelerated, right?
That's amazing.

512
00:32:59,960 --> 00:33:02,280
Yeah.
And did you use a coach or did

513
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,640
you just implement?
So you can get it, You can.

514
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:11,520
It's you can get a $100 one
online that's actually pretty

515
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,440
good, but I used somebody that
knew exactly what to do.

516
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,840
OK, OK, OK.
So you took that next step and

517
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:19,960
and worked with somebody.
Yeah, Yeah.

518
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,280
It made sense.
If I was going to invest the

519
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,240
time, I wanted to have, you
know, somebody that knew what

520
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,880
they were doing.
No, that's, I mean, I love

521
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,640
hearing these stories.
I think just to kind of point

522
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:35,120
out my perspective on the
current status quo of

523
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,000
assessments, they don't
typically include this vertical

524
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,000
development component and
they're not using AI.

525
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,080
So that's really what's they're
static.

526
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,520
They don't give you a road map
for how to grow and they're not

527
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,800
using AI.
So it's hard to scale and easy

528
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,360
to game like you were talking
about before.

529
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,520
So if I want to be an ENTJ in
the Myers Briggs, I can ask

530
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,840
Chachi BT like how do I answer
these questions?

531
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,400
And so that's kind of what we're
mitigating, being able to just

532
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:04,680
take this transcript data or
interview someone that's.

533
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:05,720
Amazing.
Yeah.

534
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Because you can't game that.
It is what it is, right?

535
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,480
Yeah.
So how much of A transcript do

536
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,679
you need?
30 minutes an hour.

537
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,679
More is better.
More is better.

538
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,920
I it's a good question.
In terms of like the bottom

539
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,840
threshold of what we need, we
haven't run into an issue like

540
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,280
we usually have at least 45
minutes of someone speaking or

541
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:29,920
doing a podcast or something
like that.

542
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,080
So I would say that's kind of
our minimum of like 45 minutes

543
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,120
of speaking content.
If you did 5 podcasts from that

544
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,520
person would that be better?
Yes, it would always be better

545
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:42,600
to.
You can get more and more

546
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:47,840
accurate, but you get the
general pattern from, again,

547
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,960
this is this is where the art of
like the scoring comes in and

548
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:56,520
there are certain things you can
more easily evaluate than

549
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,280
others.
So our full assessment is ideal

550
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,440
because we're getting everything
we need for the full assessment,

551
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,640
but there's many things we can
pull out just from the

552
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,760
transcripts.
Yeah.

553
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,120
So what's the delta?
Is it thousands of dollars for

554
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,800
the full assessment and 200 for
just a transcript or two?

555
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,640
And I'm just curious.
I'm not trying to back you in

556
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,360
the corner.
Just give me a range, yeah?

557
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,480
It's in the order of I would
say.

558
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,400
So like the fully automated
transcript is there's a bit of a

559
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,160
setup fee, but it's in the order
of hundreds of dollars between

560
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,480
like just the transcript and
taking the full assessment and

561
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,240
getting like if you want a human
to be involved in the report

562
00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:41,960
out.
It's it's a bit more, it's

563
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,680
there's a bigger delta, but
it's, you know, all, it's not

564
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,360
thousands of dollars to do all
of that.

565
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,640
Yeah, yeah.
It's really the coaching that

566
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,640
gets you into the higher price
bracket.

567
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,560
Yeah, no, I that, well, that
totally makes sense because you

568
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,560
have a person involved, right?
Well, you know, ultimately we

569
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,080
want this to be a systems chain.
You know, we want this to be

570
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:08,920
infrastructure and investment
decision making or company

571
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,240
decision making where people
analytics are a lot more

572
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:15,400
accessible and people can make
better decisions off of them.

573
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,120
And then we have better
innovation outcomes and Better

574
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,560
Business outcomes and better
investing outcomes because the

575
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,240
people side is more functional.
We can create better effective

576
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,560
teams and know like this person
is not very strong in their

577
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,360
emotional relation, emotional
intelligence.

578
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,400
Let's bring in someone who is on
the team that can kind of liaise

579
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,480
for them.
I like that.

580
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,080
So are you.
I know it's early on in the

581
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:49,640
business, but have you found a
type of company, VC,

582
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:57,880
accelerator, private equity more
interesting for you to do than

583
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,080
others?
I mean, for me personally,

584
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,640
groups that are, you know, in
the impact investing world that

585
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,000
have some sort of like mission
related investing ethos tend to

586
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:16,880
be more interesting because the
people that choose to go into

587
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:21,280
those firms often have like a
bigger mission in mind that they

588
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,360
want to achieve.
And that tends to correlate to

589
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,760
higher levels of vertical
development if you look at the

590
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,600
patterns.
So I think, yeah, so the

591
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,400
visionaries that are, you know,
in the impact investing world,

592
00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:36,280
it's been interesting to see
that correlation in the data.

593
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,520
Wow, so altruism makes better
leaders?

594
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,720
Well, I think, I think it makes
for, but they have other, you

595
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:47,400
know, often may have other hang
ups.

596
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:51,440
Like we assessed one of my good
friends who's running a very

597
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:56,960
progressive, I wouldn't say it's
very visionary platform for

598
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:00,280
coaches.
And you know, he's very

599
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,880
visionary and he scored high on
a few of the constructs, but he

600
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,720
has trouble making difficult.
He scored lower on the

601
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:10,200
purposeful agility because he
tends to have this harmony bias

602
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,520
where he wants everyone to agree
with him.

603
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,720
And so he takes he listens
really well.

604
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:17,440
But then when it comes to making
hard decisions, he struggles.

605
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,160
And so we see that in a lot of
the higher levels of development

606
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,040
where you're almost taking too
many things into consideration

607
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,880
and it can stall your the speed
in which you can make decisions.

608
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,840
So it's about becoming conscious
of those ways in which you might

609
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:37,320
stall out as you as you evolve.
Yeah, I I see that as super

610
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,160
valuable if you're willing not
to lie to yourself.

611
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,440
Yes.
And this is a lot of this is

612
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,360
predicated on a lot of self
reflection and willingness to

613
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:51,400
see yourself objectively, which
you know is, is I think a really

614
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,720
important aspect of especially
moving into the speed and

615
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,360
complexity we are in our
marketplace today.

616
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:03,200
It's we need leaders who can
stay grounded and hold a lot of

617
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,440
different pieces while they
while they move and maneuver.

618
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,400
I think it's fascinating that
you're able to assess people

619
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:17,720
without them doing the
assessment themselves, because

620
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:21,280
that's so easy to game.
Oh, to game.

621
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,320
Yeah.
And I'm saying it's, I think

622
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,840
it's really valuable that you
could take a transcript of

623
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,280
somebody, let's just say a
prospective employee, right?

624
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,640
Have a YouTube or podcast
transcript with them, drop it

625
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,040
into your system and use that to
with, with or without their

626
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,000
knowledge to evaluate where they
can fit into your organization

627
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,800
without them taking a Myers
Briggs or whatever the one that

628
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,520
people use now, which they
clearly can game against, right?

629
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,160
Yeah.
I think it's we're moving in a

630
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:56,920
really exciting territory.
It's essentially like a

631
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,680
disruption of the assessment
industry for a large degree.

632
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,680
Really, really now we now we
just have to be confident that

633
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,760
the person's.
Publicly available presentation

634
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,320
isn't just an AI bot.
Right.

635
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:13,720
Exactly.
Yeah.

636
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,800
You know, I don't know how to
solve for that yet, but.

637
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,760
Yeah, yeah.
I don't know how we're going to

638
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,560
solve for that either, because
it's getting increasingly

639
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,360
difficult.
What?

640
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,680
What a circle we've come.
You can't trust the media

641
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,680
because they're making up stuff
all the time and they're really

642
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,320
not journalists.
You can't trust the social media

643
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,480
posts because there's so many
bots and you don't know whose

644
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,880
agenda they're trying to.
And it's not even the social

645
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,400
media companies.
It's that, it's a, it's a, it's

646
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:54,960
a fertile ground for people to
launch their agendas, right?

647
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,240
Exactly, Yeah.
So it's kind of like, you know,

648
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,760
freedom is good, but there are
limitations, right?

649
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,080
Yeah, we live in a wild, but I
think vertical development, you

650
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,800
know, and, and this
psychological research that we

651
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,560
brought into the fold is really
powerful because I think at

652
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,280
higher levels of development,
you kind of your orientation

653
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:26,240
towards the system and your, you
know, ethical guardrails really

654
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,600
show up because you realize that
you're part of this ecosystem

655
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,280
and that you are connected to
everything and that, you know,

656
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,840
the influence you have.
You want to be in an integrity

657
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,120
and you see yourself just as one
point in the system instead of

658
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,280
being so self-directed and so
ego, self ego driven.

659
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,920
And so, you know, I would hope
that everyone would be more

660
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,280
conscious of where they were
along this developmental curve.

661
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,440
And, and I think that our
society would see a lot of

662
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,240
positive benefits from that.
So aside from my company, I'm

663
00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:04,520
just excited about the work.
Yeah, yeah, I could totally see

664
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:09,680
how that would make look.
What did Tony Robbins say?

665
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,600
Or whoever he stole it from
with, you know, life not

666
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,920
examined is not a life well
lived or something like that.

667
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,280
Not a life worth living.
Yeah, that's a good quote.

668
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,560
Yeah.
And so, I mean, if you're, I

669
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,960
mean, there's, there's endless
amounts of people that are not

670
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,320
interested in lifelong learning
or improvement, just be for a

671
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,360
whole host of reasons, they're
complacent, not interested.

672
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,280
They've never been taught that
that's a good thing.

673
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,240
But there's lots of people that
are super interested in that,

674
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,480
right?
Right, yeah.

675
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:46,920
And, and I think it's great to
be able to identify them and,

676
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,760
and give them money to lead
companies and so.

677
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,200
Especially in this country, you
know, it's, it's fertile ground

678
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,840
to grow companies.
I mean, it's, you know, there's

679
00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:05,480
all kinds of things that are
aligned.

680
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,560
You know, we have our problems,
but you know it.

681
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:14,440
It arguably is the best place in
the world to build a business.

682
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,200
Absolute law.
You don't have.

683
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,280
You know, you got bribery, but
you don't have it.

684
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,480
Like I own a coconut plantation
in Brazil.

685
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,720
I haven't made money in 13 years
because I have to pay everybody

686
00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:30,480
off, right?
Yeah, is there a real?

687
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,720
Roadblock, right?
Yeah, absolutely.

688
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,560
And there's no way around it.
It's just the way they operate,

689
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,640
right?
Yeah, it's, it's really

690
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,880
interesting.
It's fertile ground to build

691
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:49,040
businesses here.
And you're seeing it, right?

692
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,560
You're well, you've seen it in
your career how people have

693
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,680
succeeded and failed.
But you know, there's

694
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:59,280
opportunity.
Just you can't sit around and

695
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,200
let it happen to you have to
make it happen.

696
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:03,840
But you know, the opportunity's
there.

697
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,680
There's no question about it.
Yeah, and we're and then.

698
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,440
No, I totally agree with the.
This is the arguably the best

699
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,160
place in the world to start a
company and it's like, and still

700
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,560
we have 65% of companies failing
because of some sort of people

701
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,400
problem.
Can we help improve that?

702
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:20,640
Like can we do better?
And I think we can it.

703
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Really makes sense.
Do you have stats on the the

704
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,280
level?
The percentage of failure not

705
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,760
attributed to people problems,
that'd be.

706
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,400
Interesting from this This was a
Harvard Business Review study

707
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,000
that's based on about.
Right.

708
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,000
I couldn't find the McKinsey
source for it.

709
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:48,080
Oh, I.
See, yeah, but it was it's based

710
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:53,640
on like 14,000 ish companies.
And so I would assume the other

711
00:44:54,560 --> 00:45:00,080
35% would be, you know, market
lack of problem, you know,

712
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,800
product market fit, running out
of money, go to market strategy.

713
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:09,840
But I think again, some of that,
some of that comes down to did

714
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,560
the person freeze under pressure
and stress?

715
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,600
Did they not get along with
their Co founder?

716
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,680
You know, I still, I still think
the other side that's 35% still

717
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,600
probably has some connection to
the individual and the team that

718
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,640
was leading the charge.
Some business ideas are bad or

719
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:30,720
they're badly timed and I'm not
arguing with that.

720
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,560
But I do think even more than we
think are are connected to the

721
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,480
leadership.
Yeah, look, we see, like I

722
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,960
mentioned, we see 200 applicants
a month and there's a lot of

723
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,800
them that are just dumb.
Like we just right, that was

724
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,120
that's not, that's not going to
work.

725
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,560
And it's not because we're so
smart.

726
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,560
It's just that we've been around
for a little while, right?

727
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,040
Yeah.
And that pattern recognition is

728
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,680
valuable.
And I'd be delighted if they

729
00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,360
succeeded.
Like I, I'm not trying to wish

730
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:03,800
them any ill will, but I just,
you know, based on my

731
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,960
experience, there's probably
better things for you to do,

732
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,480
right?
So well, this has been awesome.

733
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:16,040
I I I'm super curious so forgive
all my questions, but it was

734
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,760
really interesting to hear about
this.

735
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:19,600
Thank you so much for hosting
me.

736
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,480
I was a great conversation and
then thank you for your your

737
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,040
curiosity and and follow up
questions.

738
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:29,240
And yeah, if anyone wants to
find me, I'm at founder ready

739
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:31,240
dot IO.
Oh, great.

740
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,880
Make sure everybody knows that.
We'll, like I said, we'll share

741
00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:38,720
this with you and share it with
the group and and then we'll

742
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:40,560
make sure they know how to get
hold of you as well.

743
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,160
Logan, that was awesome.
Thank you.

744
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:43,640
Yeah.
Thank you so much, Arthur.

745
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:46,520
All right.
Thank you everybody for being

746
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:47,560
here.
See you next.

747
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:48,640
Time, all right.
Appreciate it.