The Power of Family Storytelling with Jamie Yuenger of Storykeep.

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Hello, welcome everybody to
another episode of Arthur's

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Round table.
Super grateful for you joining

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us today and prior, if you've
had an opportunity and very

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grateful for the family office
insights community sharing this

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with others and we're we're
having a lot of fun doing these

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podcasts and so thank you for
paying attention if it strikes

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you.
So with that, a very dear friend

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of mine, some of you know her,
Kristen Albury, she did a lot of

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work with family Office insights
and she's kind of a stalwart in

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the family office community now.
And she's got her own company

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called Wealth Reimagined.
And she's, she shares 2 passions

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with us and me personally.
And that is we're deep into the

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family office community.
And second, she is, she's does a

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lot of travel writing and a lot
of travel.

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And so we've been able to share
some recent stories about being

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in Sicily and Italy and Greece
over the last year.

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And so it's super fun to know
her and she is introduced us to

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Jamie and there's a bunch of
folks that have attempted to do

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what Jamie does.
And I'm not being disparaging to

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them.
It sounds like I was about to

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be, but she's done a a
successful job at it.

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And that is I'm going to let her
frame it out for you and give

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her the history, archiving and
storytelling for families and

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and others that the genesis of
the families warrants being put

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down in writing or on film and
and archive for for others to

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see.
Because time flies pretty

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quickly and we're here only for
a short time, right?

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So Jamie, thank you.
I probably just butchered that

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pretty badly.
But if you wouldn't mind telling

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us the beginning of your journey
and how this came about?

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Well, nice to be in
conversation.

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And I, as I shared with you,
watched a few of the earlier

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episodes and was just felt it
was refreshing to just watch two

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people having a conversation and
it not being overly polished.

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I think there's this world we're
really hungry for just authentic

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people and conversations.
So I was happy to join you.

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Yeah, Chris and I met, I was
writing some thought leadership

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pieces and she was my editor and
we are currently Co hosting and

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Co designing A symposium coming
up in Amsterdam.

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And that was of course she was
happy to do so because she loves

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to travel as you mentioned.
And although I'm American, I

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fell in love with a Dutchman and
that's part of my story.

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I was.
Going to ask you how that

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happened.
Yeah, because you're, you're,

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you don't have the accent,
right.

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Yeah.
So I mean today, you know this

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day our firm story keep we work
with enterprising families and

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you know as you mentioned, we do
obviously have deliverables.

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But our real, I think when you
talked about being successful

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that we did what we do, I think
it came down to listening really

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well to more and more of the
families who were coming to us,

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who were pretty complex asset
owning families, multi

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generational, multi brands
families and realizing that

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there was sort of this missing
component to their lives.

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And that was a sort of what I
think of it as like narrative

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infrastructure, you know, like
they they have financial

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planning, they have ownership,
they have governance, but they

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don't have cohesion and
consistency and continuity

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around the stories, history and
relationships that ultimately

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kind of have like this outsize
impact on those other things.

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And sort of almost, I feel like
it's almost the wallpaper like

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in the room.
We don't quite see how much

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those stories are affecting
everything else.

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So, you know, my own story
certainly has influenced my

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trajectory of getting to this
place.

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I was just in a what I thought
was a typical family.

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But when I was 9, my mom told me
I had been born from an affair.

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And later I met my biological
dad.

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And then you know from that
experience it.

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Should be a trend here.
Seen a lot of that movie.

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There seems to be a trend here.
Oh, OK.

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Is that?
Oh, I'm just saying we see

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whether it be in the media or or
books that we're reading.

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I'm just saying a trend for me,
I see that in in Iraqi places.

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Yeah, maybe it's just coming out
more, you know, But you know, as

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you can imagine, to a young
person, this is like kind of the

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shell shocking thing.
Nine years old, yeah.

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Yeah.
And I later, when I was like

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1718, met my, you know, paternal
biological grandmother and

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learned I was Scandinavian, you
know, Scandinavian ancestry.

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And so I really went into this
whole moment of identity crisis,

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as so many people do at that
age, but with this extra layer.

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And because of all of that, you
can imagine there was lots of

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sort of questions around who am
I and, and, and what is what is

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family mean and what is all of
this, you know, And so it was a

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real curiosity and driver for
me.

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And on top of that, I was always
really interested in people

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similar to, you know, Chris
Noley, very just like really

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interested in who is this person
and how did they become this,

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you know, what was the life
journey they took?

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And so I became a trained
journalist and documentary

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maker.
But it I was doing that for

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broadcast and a friend of mine
asked if she could hire me to

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document her father in
And it was in that experience

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that I realized, whoa, there is
a huge power in breaking the

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wall between these two things
like professional media making

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and the private lives of
families.

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And I was always, from the word
go, felt like this is not just

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about nostalgia and
sentimentality.

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This is about something much
deeper and more powerful.

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And it took me 15 years, I
think, to really fully come to

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my full power in helping.
I think families and family

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offices understand that they've
got something really important

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on their hands, but they don't
always know what to do with it,

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and they don't always know how
powerful it is.

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But it's something worth
attending to.

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So I feel like that's really
where we're sitting at this

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point is, yes, we make
beautiful, powerful films and

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also online story museums.
But the reason we do that, I

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think is why we've started to
have some significant success.

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You know, one of the things that
I'm wondering about, because I

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haven't really seen the actual
results of pushback for, for

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what I, what I'm getting to is
that people put off estate

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planning because it's not a very
pleasant topic to talk about,

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right?
And it's got minutiae and it's

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got decisions you have to make
that you made to be, don't want

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to make right now or you don't
want others to hear that you

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make or, you know, creates
conflict in the family.

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What, what's the tipping point
where someone, whether you're

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pitching them or they've come to
you, what's the tipping point

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that causes them this to say,
OK, we're going to actually do

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this meaningful way?
There's at least two I can think

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of that are really strong and
there's probably more.

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One that comes up over and over
again is at some point of major

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transition.
It's often post sale, like sort

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of in a liquidity moment where
our identity was one thing and

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now sometimes overnight
practically like what is it and

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what are we holding on to?
And it's interesting that more

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often than not it's like, OK,
yeah, we want to sort of somehow

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honor and document that
business, right or something.

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But also who are we?
Like what it who are we as

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people and what is our story as
a family?

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So I think kind of like trying
to grapple with your identity on

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that really big moment of
transition and or a big

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leadership transition.
So if like from one generation

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to the next, how do we honor and
acknowledge the contributions

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of, let's say, the older people
in the family who have done a

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lot and then give space for the
younger generation, sometimes

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younger, we mean 50s people in
their 50s and 60s.

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Exactly.
Yeah, finally matured into

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taking over.
To to also add and evolve, right

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and and so it can be a that is a
big moment.

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And then the other one, which is
like more than obvious is like

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someone is someone very
important is you know about to.

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Die.
Yeah, about.

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To die, and we probably, and I
hear this from our clients all

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the time, probably should have
done this 5 or 10 years ago, but

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now we're finally getting around
to it.

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The person is still alive and
that is in the mix at least 50%

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of the time.
And I, I hope through our good

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education, let's call it like
that, will lessen and people

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will kind of come come to the
table sooner.

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But yeah, those are at least two
moments, I would say, where

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people are really starting to
edit.

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That's interesting because have
you had to struggle with

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somebody who's got the keys to
the history timeline and you

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know, they've hit the senility
stage of their life or they just

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can't remember?
Is that that that?

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Is that been a real challenge?
Yes, it's actually one of only

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10 questions that we ask when we
have like a little bit of a like

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the first intake questionnaire
just so we know who we're about

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to talk to.
And if we take a call is do any

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of the key storytellers have
mental decline?

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And it doesn't mean no, it just
means like we cannot rely on

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telling the whole story based on
this person, right?

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And sometimes, depending on the
stage 1 is in, sometimes photos

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and storytelling allows them to
contribute and re, you know,

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engaging up the storyline, if
you will.

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But that has to be assessed if
that's feat, Yeah.

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And is it fair to ask, is this
take, it's probably a function

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of level of cooperation, right?
Does it take a year?

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Does it take six months?
Depends on how incentive people

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are to get it done you.
Know I think that is I'm going

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to answer that question
differently than I think I've

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ever asked it answered it
before, because I think this is

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an UN going practice.
And I feel like that is actually

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kind of the if I can add
anything from from my time, you

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know, in on this planet.
And the purpose and mission we

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have is to say your family story
is always evolving.

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So and there are other voices
other than the patriarch, I

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mean, generally speaking, that
are worthy of attending to and

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caring about and documenting.
So the first time you would ever

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do something like this if you
were working with us, generally

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it is like about a year from
very, very beginning to very,

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very end.
But we had this funny problem,

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Arthur, which kept happening
over and over again.

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And I don't know if you've had
this in your life, but like you

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keep having the same problem,
but you never really come up

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with a good solution.
And then through totals, I don't

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know, like coincidence, like
you're not planning on it, you

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kind of run into the solution.
I mean, it is a little bit

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serendipitous, but I guess
you're always looking.

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So one of the problems we always
had is we have this film that

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we've made and then how do we
deliver it in an age that is

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post DVD, You know, people are
mostly on their phones.

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Like how do we wrap our minds
around this?

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And so we started developing
something that we now call a

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digital, a virtual online story
museum where a family has that,

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but they also have, there's many
other ways that families think

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about their own histories and
stories.

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They think about it through
individual photos, also shorter

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clips that are just in their
archives.

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They think about it through
their family tree.

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If you're a global family, you
think about the globe and where

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are things have happened, you
know, across place and time.

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So it is a home, if you will, to
continue to have that as a

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practice.
I mean, just like if you if you

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set out an estate plan or if you
do any other, you know, kind of

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governance work in your family.
Yeah, you do certain projects,

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but you kind of always need to
reassess and look at them and

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make sure it still makes sense.
Like overtime you do complete

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something.
And I that's one of the things I

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love about our work is we get
shit done.

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Like you have this idea, but you
never did it and you never could

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do it really on your own.
But OK, now we finally captured

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this story and it's finalized.
It's kind of.

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Daunting.
It's totally daunting.

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I find it daunting for my own
family.

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But when you that's the thing of
having any professional sit and

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help you with anything.
I mean, I was just talking to

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someone doing our personal
bookkeeping, right?

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And I'm like, yeah, I could sit
there and do all that, but like,

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I'm not going to do it unless I
have an accountability partner.

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I know.
So I think, and with our

225
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,600
families stories, even our own
personal stories, I mean, try to

226
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:15,960
sit down and write your own
memoir.

227
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,400
Good luck.
Like, it's overwhelming.

228
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:25,720
And I think having a partner and
structure and a timetable and

229
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,720
frankly, I also feel like
anytime we make an investment in

230
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,720
something financially, I mean
also emotionally, but you're

231
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,840
more focused.
You know, I think you put it

232
00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,040
well, accountability partner,
someone that's going to hold

233
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,760
your feet to the fire and say,
OK, you know, we said we were

234
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,640
going to do this.
You drag, you drug your feet.

235
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,640
Now what are we going to do?
OK, we'll push it out another 30

236
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:51,320
days, but let's do it right That
probably.

237
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,480
I have a question for you.
Sure.

238
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,960
I heard a little bit and hearing
some of your own story, a little

239
00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:03,160
bit about your dad's story, but
if you could document the life

240
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:07,360
story of anyone in in your
family, including yourself, who

241
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:12,600
would it be?
I've done a terrible job and

242
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,720
it's been highlighted to me
because my wife has done a

243
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,800
really good job of documenting
and researching an amorphous

244
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,280
history of her family.
And her mother was born in

245
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,800
Greece and came, my parents were
born here and my ancestors were

246
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,480
born in Greece.
And so I know nothing about my 2

247
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,520
grandparents on either side of
it.

248
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,680
So I would, I'd want to know,
you know, were they

249
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,400
carpetbaggers?
Were they criminals?

250
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:47,120
Were they just, were they, were
they people that just had the

251
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,600
cojones to say I'm out of here,
I'm coming to the, you know,

252
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,480
early on in the US, right?
That took a lot of nerve.

253
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,720
It did.
And I do know that on my

254
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:03,760
mother's side of the family, my
grandfather came over for a

255
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,240
couple years and then went back
and got his 16 year old wife,

256
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,200
right?
We did that sort of thing,

257
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,120
right?
Or maybe it was 18.

258
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,800
It doesn't matter something.
It was just, you know, he laid

259
00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,880
the groundwork and then went
back and fetched her and brought

260
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,680
her over and did the typical
Greek thing.

261
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,720
So I so the answer your
question, I'd like to know more

262
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,520
about that generation and it's
been cattle the desire to do

263
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,480
that has been catalyzed by my
wife's work and also us going

264
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,400
just this last year and visiting
her family in the village in

265
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,600
Greece that are still there like
wild at.

266
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,000
Home, right?
Yeah.

267
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,120
Spelling fish in the street and
pig's head and we'll repair your

268
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,520
chair.
And it's just like it was, it

269
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,200
was, you know, 300 years ago or
whatever.

270
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,360
Then, you know, it was just
raising.

271
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,440
Yeah.
Anyway, so that that's my

272
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,080
answer.
I think that's what and I

273
00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,320
imagine I want, I want to ask
you this because I thought

274
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,800
Succession was a great series.
And I would think that people,

275
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:08,360
aside from the drama and the
infighting and how great the

276
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,160
characters were evolved, that it
would cause people to say

277
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:14,840
there's actually two things,
Succession and Land Man.

278
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,200
Have you seen Land Man yet?
I've seen Succession, but I

279
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,000
haven't seen Land Man yet.
So Succession, I think, just

280
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,480
laid out how, man, you really
don't want to see how the

281
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,320
sausage is made, right?
Maybe families, yeah.

282
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:34,280
But land, Man, there was a
segment in there when one of the

283
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,280
guys that owned the oil company
was on his deathbed.

284
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,120
And Jerry Jones, the guy that
owns the Cowboys, I think I get

285
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:45,320
the name right, came in and did
this so impactful dialogue about

286
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,200
his life's dream was to be in
business with his kids.

287
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,840
And he did it.
And he and he just.

288
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,760
I mean, it was storytelling at
its best.

289
00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,480
Yeah.
So anyway, I would watch that if

290
00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:58,880
I were you.
Yeah.

291
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,760
Yeah.
OK, Yeah, Yeah, it's, it's, it's

292
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:08,920
been in watching Succession and
thinking about the similarities

293
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,640
and and like total
overdramatization of at least

294
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,760
the experiences I have with like
the families that we've worked

295
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,520
with it.
It's sort of, yeah.

296
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:22,520
I, I guess I enjoy it on an
entertainment level, like just.

297
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:23,200
Entertaining.
Yeah.

298
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,880
Anything else that's also over,
you know, over plate, but you

299
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,240
know, fun with the drama out of
it all.

300
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,720
I, I have to say, I don't, I
don't know if this is your

301
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,920
experience, but maybe it's just
the kind of work we do and

302
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,800
therefore who we draw in and who
we magnetize.

303
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:48,680
But the families that we have
worked with are so unlike the

304
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,440
Succession family, right?
Or Logan Roy and I, I don't want

305
00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,440
to say that there aren't
matriarchs and patriarchs having

306
00:17:55,440 --> 00:18:00,040
a hard time letting go of power
and their position and giving

307
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,360
necessary space for new
leadership in the family.

308
00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:08,040
But I think there's so much good
intention that's there.

309
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,040
But maybe that's just the
families that are.

310
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,080
Are willing to tell the story
because I imagine they're sort

311
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,800
of OK.
I don't really want to tell the

312
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,960
story because if I told the
whole truth and nothing but the

313
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,560
truth, then it's pretty ugly,
right?

314
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,200
Why would we want that down on
tape?

315
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,160
Yeah, I think so too.
I think I do have to say that in

316
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,880
my, I didn't know this, but
after like a lot of years

317
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,760
working with families now I
think families who have done

318
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:41,400
some other important work, like
really looking at their

319
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,960
governance and looking at how
they relate to one another.

320
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:48,320
Having some of these other
things, having at least looked

321
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,080
into them or put time and energy
into them.

322
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:55,520
They're sort of better prepared
to take advantage of looking at

323
00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,160
their story and picking it apart
a little bit too.

324
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,160
And saying like, is that really,
is that really the one story

325
00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,960
we're going to tell?
Or is it more complex?

326
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,640
Is it more layered than that?
And I'm always inviting families

327
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,760
to look at that.
Like as simple as what about the

328
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,200
people who weren't in the
business?

329
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,880
Aren't they part of this story
too?

330
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,680
Even if it weren't formal owners
or, you know, formal leadership

331
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,160
roles, you know, I, it's, it's
2026.

332
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,280
So it's super obvious.
But like, oftentimes those are

333
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,880
women, right?
And so it's like we all know

334
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,640
who, you know, our mothers and
our our wives, how not only

335
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,360
maybe they founded and run the
company and built wealth

336
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:38,240
themselves, but also if they
weren't in that position.

337
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,680
I mean, you speak about your
wife and it seems like you, you

338
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:45,520
have great tenderness for her,
like she's an equal part of

339
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,280
whatever success you've had as
a, as a, as a couple.

340
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,720
So her story is also worth
looking into.

341
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,600
Well, now that you bring it up,
so I was going to ask you this

342
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,760
because it's, but I've been
married and divorced twice and

343
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,320
my wife is not really my wife
because I'm never getting

344
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:03,880
married again, but she might as
well be.

345
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:09,880
And so she has been a huge
impact of success in the eight

346
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,160
years that we've been together.
But the Ben, thanks for saying

347
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:18,800
that.
But the the it's got to be

348
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:24,640
complex but like I have.
Relation or a stable, let's just

349
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,280
say stable relationship with
both my ex wives, the mother of

350
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,520
my children 1st and the cycle
and I didn't have any children

351
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:34,960
and they both had an impact in
my trajectory, right?

352
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,760
And of course one's the mother
of my children.

353
00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:41,000
Take that.
You know, as much as it was ugly

354
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,280
during the process, I took it
seriously, right?

355
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,760
But it has to be, you know,
difficult that if you've

356
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,680
complicated your storyline like
I have, right?

357
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,920
It's kind.
Of super complex.

358
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:59,560
It's, I think it's, it's, it's
so common though, and, and that

359
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,600
is one of the things that we
talk really candidly with people

360
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,560
about in a disc.
We have a formal whole discovery

361
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,720
phase before we even think about
the film.

362
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,400
And it's one of it's it's a very
important topic which you're

363
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,800
like, what are the
sensitivities?

364
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:22,400
What are the, you know, mishaps,
if you will, that we want to not

365
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,480
necessarily avoid.
Maybe we don't talk about them

366
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,440
in the film per SE, but we
especially if you have children,

367
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:36,720
right, like you don't want to be
speaking on record poorly.

368
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,200
Generally speaking, we would not
advise that about your ex-wife

369
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,320
or your ex-husband when part of
the point of that is to share

370
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,920
something with your children,
right?

371
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,080
You like need to honor those
relationships and be a mature.

372
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,200
Person to.
Be able to yeah, to.

373
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:58,160
And frankly, I think there's
something really good and

374
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,600
healthy for for us, we as
individuals.

375
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,400
I mean, in your position, let's
say, if you were doing that,

376
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,360
like to kind of reclaim the tone
with which and, and the

377
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:10,520
interpretation that you have of
your own life story, right?

378
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,800
And the value of your first wife
and her place in your life and,

379
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,200
and the mother that she was and
is your children.

380
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:23,960
So there's a there's an
opportunity in the mud, you

381
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,320
know, of how are we articulating
ourselves when we think about it

382
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,360
for a future audience?
And you know, that struck me

383
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:39,480
because if it was the other way
around, for example, my ex-wife

384
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:44,240
might have said some very nasty
things about me at the time and

385
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,240
my children might have stuck in
their head about that.

386
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,320
But if she had an opportunity to
say it several years later, she

387
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,760
might temper her comments with
more mature take on things or

388
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,080
realistic take on things.
Or or, God forbid, like

389
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:03,360
gratitude.
And I was trying to reverse it

390
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,200
to be kind, but doesn't matter.
Yeah.

391
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,440
Because the same would be true
because, you know, it wasn't a

392
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,600
very nice, you know, time for
either one of us.

393
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,080
But despite how much we tried to
screw up the kids, they turned

394
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:17,720
out all right.
Yeah.

395
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,160
Well, I think you know when
you're talking, this is a

396
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,160
different relationship.
This is like a father son

397
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,680
relationship.
But I think those ones are also

398
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,360
can be quite challenging.
Comes to mind this this moment

399
00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:34,440
where we had finished a film, a
very involved film project with

400
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:38,160
a very large family.
And the the current living

401
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,600
patriarch was sitting in this
movie theater with his whole

402
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,400
family watching this this film
for the first time, which he had

403
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,680
taken part in, but he hadn't
seen the whole completed piece.

404
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,160
His son, who's sort of now the
current family leader, family

405
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:57,120
office executive, but his dad's
still alive, right, is sitting

406
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:00,800
there sitting right next to each
other watching the film and and

407
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,800
after things complete, you know,
lots of people are crying in the

408
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,000
audience.
And it's a good.

409
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:09,040
But then the the patriarch turns
to his son and says, I didn't

410
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,000
realize how we had pushed the
value of hard work down

411
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,240
everyone's throats so much.
And I guess there's also a

412
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,360
liability to that.
And I heard this story through

413
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,880
the, you know, through the
memory and lens and telling of

414
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,800
the son, right, the family
office executive currently

415
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,640
leading a family.
And I thought, wow, what a

416
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:39,120
liberation actually to say I
wasn't necessarily always my dad

417
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:41,800
wasn't always right.
He's rethinking something by

418
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,120
seeing his story reflected back
to him.

419
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,960
Maybe I can make a different
choice and.

420
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,760
Going forward to with my kids,
yeah, well.

421
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,600
Interpret that value in a
slightly different way, right?

422
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:57,320
Hard work is great, but yeah,
what are we missing out on?

423
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,440
Are we missing out on being with
our children on the weekends or

424
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,160
you know what?
However it played out, and I

425
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:10,720
think that's a, that's what I
mean by the, the capital of

426
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,760
story, like story being an
actual asset in families.

427
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,840
Because if we are able to use
story as a reflection point and

428
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,040
a conversation to have new
conversations, then that can

429
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,240
really change the trajectory of
certainly of a family's life,

430
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,760
but also business decisions they
make, investment decisions they

431
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,120
make, how they change
leadership.

432
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,840
It's it's kind of has this
outsized impact on everything.

433
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:42,760
We just That one moment can
change so much.

434
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,240
Yeah, it's kind of a or
debriefing, right?

435
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,720
On some level.
OK, here's how it all came

436
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,040
about.
What can we learn from it?

437
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,840
Yeah.
It's an interesting way to look

438
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,640
at it, right?
Yeah.

439
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,960
And I think, you know, what
we've found in frankly, becoming

440
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,920
a bit bolder with the families
that we work with is really,

441
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:12,240
really encouraging them to not
make this a reel of achievements

442
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,000
and a highlights hit of, you
know, successes because it is a

443
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:20,600
very hard thing to relate to.
And it's not true.

444
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,280
You know it and I know it.
And I mean, being a business

445
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,000
owner myself, I certainly would
want my own daughter to go after

446
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,880
her dreams and, and build a
business that she wants.

447
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,480
But also realized, like it took
a lot of perseverance, a lot of

448
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,680
belief in yourself, a lot of
things not working out.

449
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,600
And if we can talk about those
moments and how we recovered

450
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:52,240
from them, the story of
resilience comes through.

451
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,120
And that is what we can gift our
children.

452
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,720
Because inevitably, it had
matters.

453
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,960
Not how much money you have.
Like you're going to be hit in

454
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,240
the face with a brick like one
way or another.

455
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,320
You know, I, I don't mean to
overstate this, but I've said

456
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,560
this regularly is that I think
that my kids going through the

457
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,800
my divorce cause them to be more
ready for the world than they

458
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,680
otherwise would have been.
Along with everything else that

459
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,760
we did.
You know, it all come made a

460
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:27,920
contribution as to who they are,
but they resilience is the the

461
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,840
word I use in conjunction with
they've learned how to adjust

462
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,120
because life is a series of
adjustments, right?

463
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,520
And so they've they've been able
to say, OK, I get it.

464
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,640
That's what happened now what
right.

465
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,080
So resilience and, you know,
think things.

466
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,280
It's not a it's a windy Rd. it's
not a straight road.

467
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,000
And so building the ability to
recognize that instead of what

468
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000
was me, it's OK, I see what I'm
dealing with now.

469
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,240
Here's what I'm going to do,
right?

470
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,640
So they, they, I, they built
that, that muscle, I think not

471
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,920
just because of the divorce, but
it got that.

472
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520
It contributed to that.
So they had to say, OK, what the

473
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,080
Hell's going on here?
And then they became New York

474
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,200
City kids.
And that also had something to

475
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,960
do with it, right?
Yeah, having lived in New York

476
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,280
for 13 years, I can appreciate
that.

477
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:24,840
Well, I'm curious from where you
sit, how you see a family story

478
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:30,680
and, let's say narrative
interacting with how they.

479
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,520
Yeah deal with business and
deals and, and building a family

480
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:37,440
office.
Like what, what do you see?

481
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,000
What's your perspective on that?
I.

482
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,520
Think that if there's a lot of
skeletons in the closet that we

483
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:50,280
just don't want to go there.
And, and my, I think my initial

484
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,240
question was my viewpoint on it
is it's kind of like, OK, when

485
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,160
is the right time for me to do
this?

486
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,360
And sometimes it's, if you're
willing to tell the story, it's

487
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,360
at those inflection points where
you're selling or transition

488
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,920
leadership and that sort of
thing.

489
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680
I don't, I don't know how much I
can meaningfully contribute,

490
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:17,400
although I know a lot of these
people and a lot of them are my

491
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,000
friends.
And so we don't really talk

492
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:27,360
about it.
I get involved.

493
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,800
So family offices is they're
very little.

494
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,200
You can say that you can
generalize about them except

495
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,560
they like trading.
How did you handle this?

496
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,880
How did you handle this?
How did you handle that, right?

497
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,960
And it's more often in the
context of business, right?

498
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,760
Or kids.
So it's business for kids, right

499
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:52,360
and so it's it's like I'm not
going to go my friend here in

500
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,840
Park City is really interesting.
Great friend and do a lot of

501
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,840
good stuff for the world.
He he this is an analogy, but

502
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,000
it's made it may get my point
across, but he's not going to do

503
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,760
the like he had to buy ATV for
his property right.

504
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,120
And there's a bunch of models
available or manufacturers, he's

505
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,880
not going to go do the research
on which he's going to ask his

506
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,880
friend which one did you buy?
And then that's what he's going

507
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,720
to do.
So, and he's not going to go do

508
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,800
you know, buy the magazine and
compare the details and spend

509
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,800
any time all that nonsense, he's
going to say, which one did you

510
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,280
end up buying?
And do you like it?

511
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,200
OK, I'm going to go buy that one
and it's over.

512
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,360
Like it takes 3 snickets, right?
So that's kind of the, the, the

513
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,480
intersection that I see is
people are asking how did you

514
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,600
handle that?
Right?

515
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,640
You were, you were presented
with this fact pattern.

516
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,760
And so how did you handle that?
And it's it's those those

517
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,560
insights are super valuable
because aside from somebody who

518
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,920
has not done it, you found
somebody who did do it and lived

519
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,880
through it and the good and the
bad as results.

520
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:06,760
To answer your question, I don't
hear it that often about how did

521
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,480
you tell your origin story
right?

522
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,400
Yeah, yeah, I think.
It's an awareness thing, Jamie.

523
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,560
I think it's.
Probably an awareness thing and

524
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:20,440
I think I'm I'm, I'm just 43 so
I feel like I have a long enough

525
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,800
runway.
How you do I'm I'm?

526
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,880
I only know that because of my 6
year old, right?

527
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,360
By the way, just for the
audience, that is a meaningless

528
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,120
apparently.
Like yeah, I don't even know

529
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,480
what my child's generation is
called Alpha and.

530
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,880
It's become an uncool thing for
somebody like me to do, yeah.

531
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:45,040
So thank you so good, but I'm
43, so I'm and I feel like I

532
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:51,200
have a long enough time and
certainly enough passion to say

533
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,440
you guys are missing out and
you're missing something really

534
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,040
critical.
And even if you're not thinking

535
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,320
about it and you're super smart,
it doesn't mean that it's not

536
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,440
potentially really, really
effective and helping you do

537
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,760
what you're trying to do better
without as many headaches.

538
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,560
And I know it's hard because
relationships are hard.

539
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,360
You know, it's difficult as
finances and deals and all that

540
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,400
can be to put together.
I totally appreciate that and

541
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,360
those professions.
But we all know how hard it can

542
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,960
be to reconcile with a loved
one.

543
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,200
I mean, I, I know that deeply.
I'm sure you do too, Arthur.

544
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:34,520
And so I'm not saying that's
always the work that's in front

545
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,400
of you when you're doing this
kind of thing.

546
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:42,120
But I think reflecting, meaning
making, giving space for another

547
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,240
person to speak and really be
heard and seen, these are pretty

548
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,640
much the hardest things that we
do in life.

549
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:54,960
But they're necessary because we
know that finances without

550
00:32:55,640 --> 00:33:00,480
relational and meaning context
are eventually going to rupture.

551
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,120
We say that over and over and
over again.

552
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,480
I mean, if you go back to the
Succession series example,

553
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,200
everything is basically on the
verge of blowing up all the time

554
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,480
because these relationships are
like just a landmine, right?

555
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:19,080
And so I don't think that story
and history and narrative can

556
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:24,480
save everyone all the time.
But I do think that families and

557
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,680
individuals that have enough
foresight and leadership to

558
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,160
realize that their relationships
and how they tell their story,

559
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,920
either formally or, you know,
informally, that is a, it's a

560
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:43,480
critical factor.
And yeah, that's preceptually

561
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,680
what we're going to be exploring
at the symposium that that Chris

562
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,520
and I are hosting is just that.
It's really interesting, I think

563
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,520
that as often as the case doing
this, there will be a beneficial

564
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,200
byproduct that wasn't the
intent.

565
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,560
But as you mature in business,
it could be one that, for

566
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,480
example, a lawyer might state
planning lawyer, say, you know,

567
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,480
you're not quite sure who you
want to do have this role in

568
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,440
your estate plan.
And the reason is because you've

569
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:19,320
got a severed relationship or a
problem with that relationships.

570
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,320
I, I, I'm not sure.
It's kind of a, not a very

571
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,800
Direct Line, but you know, they
might suggest, well, why don't

572
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,960
you go through the storytelling
and maybe you can help resolve

573
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,679
it, right?
It's a good little bit of a

574
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,800
stretch, but I also think that,
you know, when I think about

575
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,560
things, I always often think
about them in a commercial

576
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,199
sense, right?
So where's the business

577
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,880
development come from?
Seems like state planning

578
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,000
lawyers would be a natural.
Has that been helpful to you?

579
00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:53,400
Maybe could be, I would say a
smart family office executives

580
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,360
and family office leaders,
family enterprise advisors and

581
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,600
consultants.
Those are the folks and actually

582
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,440
really smart wealth advisors who
think more holistically.

583
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,000
That is sort of who seems to
understand how the puzzle pieces

584
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,000
go together and to us being a
puzzle piece in the mix.

585
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,040
Yeah, I think, I think what what
you were getting at, I mean,

586
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,720
there's an interesting example
sort of similar to what you were

587
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:23,360
sharing, but there's a family
who was going through a major

588
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,200
leadership transition from G2 to
G3.

589
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,520
They came to us in the midst of
that transition.

590
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,240
And even though they had
everything in place, the

591
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:35,360
ownership and arrangement in the
legal documents and everything,

592
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,480
like they couldn't really move
as a family and they couldn't

593
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,400
decide and get behind one of the
five cousins to become the new

594
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,000
leader of the company.
And it seems kind of like how is

595
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,200
one thing related to the other?
But I think we can all

596
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,880
appreciate that sometimes one
part of the story, whatever it

597
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,360
is, we don't realize how it's
connected to something else,

598
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,320
right?
And So what was happening is

599
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,120
there was a major part of this
family's history that they had

600
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,640
never talked about, that they
had lost all of their money

601
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,000
after World War 2 when all the
Japanese Americans were put in

602
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,960
internment camps.
And then they had bounced back

603
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,600
from that, but they never talked
about that.

604
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:21,440
And then the 2 male leaders of
the family in the business

605
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,680
stayed in that position.
And there was just a lot of kind

606
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,080
of like things we don't talk
about go on.

607
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,760
And it made it very hard for
them because of sort of these

608
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,080
branch difficulties and dynamics
between the two branches to get

609
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:39,400
behind one leader.
And once that history part was

610
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:44,240
unlocked and the children who
are in their 40s and 50s could

611
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:47,560
look at their fathers and say,
wow, they lived through so much

612
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:51,720
and they they invested so much
to keep this company going.

613
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,000
They literally lost everything.
Are we really going to sit here

614
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,960
and, you know, not try to really
come to a solution together?

615
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,840
So it seems like the leadership
question of business succession

616
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:11,960
is about one thing, but it was
really tied to this undergirding

617
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,760
of this other thing.
And once that was unlocked.

618
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,880
They connected the dots.
Unanimously get behind one of

619
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,200
the cousins, you know, and feel
good about it.

620
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,760
So I think we all sort of can, I
think people can relate to this.

621
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,240
Like there is there are parts of
our own narratives and stories

622
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,880
that when you kind of understand
one thing about what happened in

623
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:39,880
your past, it links to something
else that was unexpected.

624
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,400
And that's why we can never say,
oh, we guarantee that if you go

625
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,600
through this process, your whole
family will be healed and you

626
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,840
will figure everything out
because we don't know where it's

627
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:53,280
all going.
We just know it is generally

628
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:58,080
worthwhile and it will bring
something unexpected, generally

629
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,280
positive, like we're not going
to enter into doing work with

630
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,920
the family if we think we're
going to do harm.

631
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,800
We have encountered those
scenarios and we say this is

632
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,840
probably not good for us to go
there, but when there's a

633
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,400
certain amount of openness, so
much can happen.

634
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:17,200
Yeah, I could totally see that.
I also, I think, and again, it's

635
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:22,840
just me met thinking about the
barriers to commercial success,

636
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,640
right is there's I know so many
things about so many families

637
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:36,240
that nobody ought to know.
And I'm not talking about

638
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:38,640
criminals.
I'm just, there's some of that,

639
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:45,680
but the but it's I imagine
that's a big barriers is

640
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,160
deciding to embark on this
journey to tell the story.

641
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,600
You'd have to have an overriding
desire to make sure that your

642
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,560
heirs and your family have the
archived information and that

643
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:04,440
that desire overrides whatever
you're not going to disclose or

644
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,440
feel your risk disclosing that
you don't want anybody to know

645
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,120
about.
Does that make sense?

646
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,720
Yeah, I think what what you're
talking about is 2 things.

647
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:16,040
It's desire and courage, and I
think you do have to have an

648
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,800
overriding desire.
There's skeletons.

649
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,880
In everybody's closet.
Let's just call here.

650
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,040
It is.
Yeah, exactly.

651
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,920
And I think it takes courage.
I think it takes immense, true,

652
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,320
honest to God leadership to say
I want something more important

653
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,800
and bigger for my family than my
fear of whatever.

654
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,320
Like The thing is.
And it can be very real, but I

655
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,480
think it is about having a long
view, which not everyone has.

656
00:39:43,720 --> 00:39:49,520
I have a side of my wife's
family who is 7th generation

657
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,240
bootleggers.
Still active.

658
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,200
Well, I mean they're in the the
the alcohol pist front of the

659
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,960
chair.
Yeah, but that's think about

660
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:03,680
that 7 generations back.
They were you're doing all the

661
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,160
stuff that, you know, we saw in
all the all the movies, you

662
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,960
know, the prohibition and
everything.

663
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,360
And every time we see them, I
get another little tidbit of.

664
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,000
The horror of what happened with
between the families right and.

665
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,400
I think I I love that you bring
that up because I think the

666
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:26,480
other part of this work that is
actually so much fun for me and

667
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,320
for our team and also for
families is like, there are also

668
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,800
all these wild, amazing stories
and there's so much joy in it

669
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,760
too.
Like, yeah, I mean, we've been

670
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,680
talking about like, yeah, you
know, narrative power and blah,

671
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,720
blah, blah.
But like, it's also just, Oh my

672
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,880
God, Dad, tell that story again,
you know, or just wanting those.

673
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,760
There's something about those
little shiny Nuggets that give

674
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:54,680
us some kind of idea of who we
are, you know, and what we came

675
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,440
from.
And I mean, for your, for your,

676
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,360
for your wife.
It's like, oh, I'm sort of part

677
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,120
of this funny, amazing, kind of
offbeat lineage of bootleggers.

678
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,600
I mean, some part of that is in
her, right?

679
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,040
And it's probably also a little
bit of the part of why you love

680
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,000
her because like there's sort of
that rebellious, you know what,

681
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:17,040
you know, it's just, it's, it's
these little flecks of, of truth

682
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:20,600
told through story.
And I think that's why we love

683
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:25,320
to hear stories about people in
our family and what they do.

684
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,760
And I didn't say this at the
beginning, but everything is

685
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:31,520
about storytelling.
Everything.

686
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,440
Yes.
And so I know that sounds

687
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,160
hyperbolic, but you get my
point.

688
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,200
Like when people come in,
because we see thousands of

689
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:45,880
applications, we see hundreds of
pitches, and the people who

690
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:49,680
succeed are the ones that
actually have a legit business.

691
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,960
But if they can't tell the
story, it doesn't matter, right?

692
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,320
It does not matter at all,
right?

693
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:00,920
And you could have a legit
business and tell the story and

694
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:03,880
you'll succeed.
And you can have a not so legit

695
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:06,320
business and do a good
storytelling and succeed.

696
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,520
But if you have a either way on,
if you can't tell the story,

697
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,000
you're toast.
It's over.

698
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,080
Well, and I think that you just,
you just hit the nail on the

699
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:18,760
head, Arthur, because when
families are in business,

700
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,160
enterprising families, they have
a story to tell and who is their

701
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,400
audience?
They're errors.

702
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,360
So if they're trying to sell the
concept, you are essentially

703
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:31,760
trying to sell it to your loved
ones, right?

704
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,880
And you have to do it in even
more, almost more persuasive

705
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,720
ways, because these people know
you, right?

706
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:38,440
Right.
Yeah.

707
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,880
Yeah, exactly so.
There's got to be some

708
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,680
authenticity there, yeah?
Funny, yeah.

709
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,280
Yeah.
So talk about the the, what do

710
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,320
you call it?
The comfort zone I'm struggling

711
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,680
for the work symposium.
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,840
I, well, I'll just say it's an
Amsterdam on May 11th and 12th,

713
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,960
2 days primarily for family
office executives and families

714
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,480
themselves.
So the point is to have families

715
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,880
in the room with other families.
They'll be North American,

716
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,200
they'll be European, as well as
other places in the world coming

717
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:22,680
together to look at.
OK, what is the place and power

718
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:28,480
of story in my, my family,
right, and, and my family's

719
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:33,760
business or family office.
And like I said, like I've been

720
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,280
in this industry for 15 years
and I always really felt that

721
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:44,440
that conversation about story
being continuity capital, if you

722
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,480
will, but that was like always
on the periphery.

723
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:51,800
And being an Aries and being a
first born child, I was like,

724
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:54,840
I'm going to carve out space for
this in this world for the

725
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,400
vanguard families who are
interested in doing this.

726
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,600
I want to make a space for that.
And so that's what Kristen and I

727
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,760
partnered on her being a
journalist and also a lover of

728
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,760
travel and food and wine, that
we would not make a conference,

729
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,000
not, I don't know, make
something where people are

730
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,960
presenting and selling
something, but really a place

731
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,200
for intimate conversations
because that's really what it

732
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:23,520
is, a structured environment for
that and to see what kind of

733
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,120
magic happens in the room when
you do that.

734
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:30,480
So we're having, for example, a
speaker who he has a very, very

735
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,320
famous family member who we all
know.

736
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,840
But when I interviewed him, he
was really interested in the

737
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,800
stories of another family member
and his family.

738
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,720
And he told me all about those
stories.

739
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:46,480
And he's going to come and speak
about just that kind of fact

740
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,240
like that.
We sometimes we have these

741
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:52,120
origin stories or, you know, the
original story of wealth or

742
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,440
whatever.
But what if, what about the

743
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,120
value of these other stories to,
to our family's culture and

744
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,920
identity?
So it's kind of telling that

745
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:06,960
with the hook of his very famous
family member, but to get the

746
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,400
juices flowing.
So that's what it will be, along

747
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:16,080
with a Dutch themed dinner where
we will have Dutch families who

748
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:18,840
have been in business for 330
years.

749
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:23,240
So there's AI, don't know if
you're familiar with Geneva or

750
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:25,720
Geneva.
It's a Dutch spirit.

751
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:29,600
And the Decauper family who's
been making it for 330 years

752
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:34,400
will be making a Dutch cocktail
for us, and they'll be cheese

753
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,280
and all kinds of story infused
parts too.

754
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,920
That's what this Zoom is.
So that's who it's for.

755
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:43,480
It's for family office
executives and family members to

756
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,760
come and be in conversation and
reflection around those things.

757
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,920
So it's it's somewhat obvious
and a little pedestrian, but

758
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:59,760
I'll tell you that, you know, we
hold these our pitches on Zoom

759
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,360
where somebody's raising money
for a fund or a company.

760
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:10,400
I'm not trying to suggest that
we're so smart that people come

761
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,880
on and they pitch and what we
recommend, and it's surprising

762
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,480
how often they don't think about
it, is that when you're doing

763
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,120
that, there's always a barrier
between the people pitching and

764
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:25,920
the people who could potentially
invest in terms of the

765
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:30,800
storytelling, first of all.
And then, OK, of course this

766
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,840
person wants me to invest in his
company.

767
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,160
He's it's, he's the company or
she's the company.

768
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,640
We always recommend that they
have somebody come on, almost

769
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,640
one or two people, even if it's
for 5 minutes, who's already

770
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,560
invested in the company,
especially if it's a peer like a

771
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,040
family office and just come on
and say, hey, This is why we

772
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:57,000
voted with our checkbook and
that makes all the difference.

773
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,160
Well, I have to tell you there
will be 3, what we call them

774
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,880
Story Keep families, the three
families who have worked Story

775
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:09,560
Keep who will be there sharing
about their journey, not as a

776
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,760
pitch, but just really like this
is their experience, you know,

777
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,760
challenges that's.
Perfect, because they'd rather

778
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:19,280
listen to them than you.
Yeah, always, always.

779
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,680
And so I was, I mean, I have to
say, I'd literally jumped up and

780
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,000
down when I heard that the first
family who've worked with for

781
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,040
many years was going to be
coming with three family

782
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,920
members.
And because, I mean, they live

783
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:36,160
on the East Coast, it's like
it's not California, but it is a

784
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,920
trek to come, you know?
And it's like, wow, they really

785
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:41,800
care enough and they believe in
the power of this.

786
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,200
And they've had this incredible
experience that they are flying

787
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:47,320
to Amsterdam.
Don't be too surprised.

788
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,760
What's?
That.

789
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,440
Don't be too surprised.
I think I'll always be

790
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,480
perpetually kind of like
grateful and optimistic about

791
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,120
it.
But yeah, I know there's

792
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,560
something about not bootlegging,
but bootstrapping a business

793
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:06,120
where you're always sort of
delighted that other people

794
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:10,120
believe in what you're doing.
Totally, Yeah.

795
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,440
Yeah.
So I'm, I'm running out of time,

796
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:15,200
so I apologize, but we have to
wrap it up.

797
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,280
Maybe we can get some share some
information with us where we can

798
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,760
get some people to come that
might be good candidates for

799
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,240
you.
We'll we'll put a questionnaire

800
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,240
out.
It says if you have dark side of

801
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:29,840
your family don't apply.
Only if you're willing to talk

802
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,640
about it.
Yeah, I'm happy to share the

803
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:33,880
links.
I mean, if you go to

804
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,040
storykeep.com, there's a on the
top navigation is about the

805
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,720
symposium, but I'm happy to
share.

806
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:42,560
We also have like a brochure
that sort of goes through more

807
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,400
the value of coming and yeah.
We'll send it out.

808
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,040
We'll send it out to the the
group if you like.

809
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,200
Happy to that'd.
Be lovely.

810
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,640
Thank you, Kristen.
This has been so, yeah, amazing.

811
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,280
Thank you, Jimmy.
Really appreciate it.

812
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,800
Nice talking to you and I hope
to stay connected.

813
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:00,480
For sure.
Yeah, my pleasure.

814
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,800
Look forward.
To it.

815
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:03,760
Bye, bye, bye.
Thanks.

816
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:04,240
Everybody.