The Journey of an Entrepreneur: Insights from Arthur Bavelas interviewed by Cate Wilkes.

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Hello, Welcome everybody to
another episode of Arthur's

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Round Table.
Super grateful to have you here

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today.
And also big shout out to the

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Family Office Insights community
for paying attention to what we

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do here and sharing it as you
have.

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Really grateful for that.
So we're going to do something a

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little different.
I'm not going to tell you what

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it is, but you're going to find
out if you stay tuned.

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Kate, thank you for doing this.
Yeah, absolutely, Arthur, I am

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delighted to be here.
Thank you for indulging me in

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this.
The opportunity to to interview

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you.
We met some time ago, maybe over

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the last many months, but
certainly not more than a year

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ago, and just developed kind of
a good friendship and sort of

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aligned on some uniqueness in
terms of similarities in authors

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and the type of books and genre
we like to read and type

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material we like to lean into.
And as I've got to know you, I

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thought to myself, you know
what, you are so good at

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interviewing other people and
really diving into the

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brilliance in other people.
I wanted to do that with you

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today and just.
Seek not to to disappoint.

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Well, you know, I hope that this
could be just an informal

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conversation about who you are,
what has made you so successful,

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why you still stay in the hunt.
There's a rigor to what you do.

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Even just this podcast with
Arthur's roundtable, there's a

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rigor to it.
There are people behind it that

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you lead and manage.
And So what I would love to do

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is just start out with an
open-ended question, which is

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really around giving us a little
bit insight or maybe telling

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your story in a way that gives
us a little bit of insight into

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what drives you today.
Tell us a little bit about that

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and your story.
Yeah.

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So I think it's really simple
and maybe illustrated best by my

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sister asking me a question.
Where are you now?

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You left Manhattan during COVID
and you're in Colorado or

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something.
And my sister's a super

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interesting, unique personality.
Aside from being my sister,

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she's hyper talented artist.
And her name is Aphrodite, which

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caused all kinds of problems
while she was growing up.

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And she has blazing red hair.
And so she was picked on early

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on because she was so talented
and smart.

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But anyway, she asked me the
question, you know, so you're

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retired now.
And she never had a real grasp

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of what I did for a living
because it was not really

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amorphous to those of us that
are in the business world and

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kind of the silo that I operate
in.

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But it was an anthem.
But to her, like, she, you know,

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what are you doing now?
So anyway, she asked me if I was

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retiring and I said, why would I
do that?

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Like, what's that mean?
Because I'm doing pretty much

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exactly what I want to do.
We isn't that the idea of

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retirement, Right.
And so it is an enriching life.

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And I don't mean to be too crazy
about saying it that way, but I

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get to speak to interview people
like you and speak to people

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like you and see amazing
entrepreneurs regularly and fund

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managers and learn deeply about
things and learn the peripheral

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and the peripheral nature about
things as well.

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And it, it is, it makes for a,
a, a nice way to spend your time

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aside from, you know, figuring
out the game of monetizing

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things.
I mean, it is just a game.

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And so it's exciting to be able
to connect the dots and make

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things happen.
And if I and I stopped and

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thought about it, when she asked
me the question, I said like,

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what's retirement?
What would retirement look like

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for me?
I could move to part of the time

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to Utah and buy a ranch and
enjoy the nature while I'm doing

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that on a race.
So I don't think I need to

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retire to do that, right?
Yeah.

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So it was just, it didn't make
any sense to me, but I got it,

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totally got it.
Why she thought maybe that to be

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the case?
So to answer your question, it's

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just it is an enormous amount of
fun and it's enriching and it

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produces money and I have great
relationships with people and I

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continue to build them and it
makes life really enriched.

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Yeah, it's, but it's interesting
how we see people through the

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lens of our own understanding.
So she has one understanding of

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what retirement is supposed to
be, but it's really what we're

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learning.
I think as as we're evolving as

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a society that it's not that
way.

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There's not one definition.
It's what works for Arthur, what

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works for you in terms of what
you want to do with your time.

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So we're always this ambitious.
Like growing up, were you always

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this ambitious?
Yeah, I, I, I thank you for

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sending along some questions
because I thought about them,

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but not for very long.
And I will admit that there is,

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there was a point in my life
where my father, who was unlike

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most Greek immigrants, he wasn't
an immigrant.

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He was born here, but he was
largely an immigrant, would

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start a diner, work in a cash
business, make a fair amount of

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money, take care of their
family.

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And, you know, it worked for a
lot of Greek people, whether it

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was a grocery store or whatever.
And he didn't do that.

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He ended up working in a paper
mill that his father worked in,

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in the middle of nowhere in New
Hampshire, where I was born, and

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end up being, you know, a
skilled paper maker and never

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owned a business but always
worked for somebody.

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And so the background is only to
tell you that in his 50s, he got

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fired or let go or whatever you
want to call it, not for doing

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anything bad, but for whatever
reason.

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And that was the end of his
career in his 50s because nobody

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at the time wanted to hire him.
And so he lamented and suffered

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as a result, not financially
because he was fine.

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But you know, his his ego was
shot.

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Like it really cut him to the
quick.

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And so I was young and but it
really ended up putting an

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imprint on me saying, yeah, I am
going to do my best to never

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allow somebody to take my name
off the door.

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And so that's really what's
caused me to.

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And I've had wild failures and,
you know, miserable times in my

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life economically, thankfully,
just to have economically, not

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like my kids have suffered or
anything like that or family.

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And aside from him, he ended up,
you know, putting on a lot of

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weight, had a stroke in the last
25 years.

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His life was in a wheelchair.
And it was, you know, stress

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related, health related, you
know, all that kind of stuff.

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But he had a miserable the last
25 years of his life.

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And so did his wife, my mother.
And so I just, yeah, I said,

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there's no way that's going to
happen to me.

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And so even though I've had, you
know, times where I was broke

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with three kids, it didn't
matter.

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I was not going to let you know
somebody else dictate whether I

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had a way of making a living or
not.

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Yeah, that's really powerful.
I it, that example was really

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powerful for you.
I could see how that would drive

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you to want to have control over
your destiny.

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And so many people leave control
outside of themselves.

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And the only, the only place
that leaves us is to be at

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effect if we have control, if
control is with someone else,

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whether it's a boss or
organization or anything, the

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only thing that we can be is
that effect a victim.

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Exactly.
And listen, there's nothing

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wrong with getting a job and
taking care of your family.

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I'm not not for me, right?
And you know you can.

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I told my kids that they all
came out of school and worked

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hard and got jobs and, you know,
found their way in the world and

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are totally launched and doing
well.

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But I said one of the things
I've learned is if you're going

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to get a job, and I used the
Goldman Sachs trade, I say you

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work at Goldman Sachs for 10
years, they make $300 million.

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You walk out with 10, but you
walk out with a Rolodex that you

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couldn't build in any other way
but on their brand, and shame on

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you if you don't do anything
with it.

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That's OK, right?
In my view, this is just my

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view, and that's what I told
him.

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I said if you want to go, go
somewhere where you can build

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something that when you want to
go out and launch it on your

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own, that you have the benefit
of having done it with somebody

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that helped you make connections
that you would otherwise not be

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able to make.
Yeah, such wise advice.

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That's I.
Mean I'll do that, but some

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version of it, right?
It should be on the graduation

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list of every college graduate,
you know, because we can't, we,

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we, we can recoup money.
We can't recoup time, but that's

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safe advice.
I love that.

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Let's turn to a defining moment.
I, I have a question here that I

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want to ask you.
Was there a single decision or

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moment that changed the
trajectory of your life more

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than any other?
A single moment in the course of

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your career.
I would say was that thing with

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my father, but in terms of
supporting that, I mentioned

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that was, you know, had a really
failed business and I was broke

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and had three kids and I had to
figure out.

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So, you know, it's kind of like
the alcoholic, you know, down at

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the bottom and there's no way
but up.

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And so pulled myself up and
figured it out.

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And so I think having embarked
on the entrepreneurial journey

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and failed at it, if further,
some people would say, holy

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shit, I'm not doing that again.
But it further enhanced my

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willingness to say, OK, I've got
to make this work.

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And of course having children
and you know, is is just a

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changes your life as many people
know.

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Yeah, it it did for me as well.
It sounds like it fortified you.

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Did you have people around you,
Arthur, when you were going

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through that that you could turn
to for support?

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Did you have a support system
during that time?

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I had good friends that were
that were successful

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entrepreneurs that said just
keep on going.

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My wife at the time was
reasonably supported, supportive

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and was on my side, so that was
super helpful.

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My family, not so much.
So because they didn't they

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didn't get it right?
No, aside from that, not really.

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So you were really the first one
in your family to venture off as

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an independent, as an
entrepreneur?

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Yeah, two sisters, one of the
one I mentioned, and she's, you

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know, married, a great guy, two
kids, wonderful life, smart, an

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artist.
So there's no business acumen

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there.
But her husband's a great guy.

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My other sister sort of is not
even close to being

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entrepreneur, just sort of
plodded along in life.

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But yeah, that was the only one.
And of course, as I mentioned

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earlier, you know, neither one
of my siblings nor not that not

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only did they not know what I
was doing, they had no idea of

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what I was going through.
Not a not a single thing.

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I don't really pat myself on the
back.

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But they prospered as a result
because I made money and I

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helped them, right?
So.

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Yeah, yeah.
But you carried that weight.

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It sounds like you carried the
majority of that weight on your

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own.
When you have a family and

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things in the business world
aren't going as planned and you

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have to pivot, it's a lot of
responsibility.

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And so kudos to you, you know,
when you already have.

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So I'm, I'm just going to take a
leap and say you're at a point

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in your life where you could do
what you want, when you want.

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And that if you decided tomorrow
to go horseback riding for the

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rest of your days, you could do
that.

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So when you already have more
than enough, what still makes So

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we've touched on some of this,
but what still makes you get up

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early, lean in.
I know that you have a thirst

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for learning you that you love
to read.

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What do you think is driving you
at the stage?

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It's different than what drove
me at earlier stages, but the

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longevity is a reality, right?
It's there's only 32 1/2 four

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years left and what am I going
to do with them, right?

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There's nothing I can do about
that except do the things, you

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know, eat well, exercise, you
know, be mindful of, you know,

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really be mindful of the most
valuable asset and that's your

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time.
And so it's a it's not just, you

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know, carving out the time to go
to the gym because you know,

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it'll help and making sure that
you well, because you know it's

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going to help.
But also I don't want to do

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that.
Like I'm just not going to do

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00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,480
it, right?
I'm not interested.

224
00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:13,280
I'm not rude about it.
But if I'm at a cocktail party

225
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:17,360
is somebody starts blathering
nonsense, I just move on, right?

226
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,560
I just, I'd rather just go
somewhere else, do something

227
00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,480
else, right?
Talk to me else or go home and

228
00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,960
read a book, right?
So I think that right now a lot

229
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,600
of it's like, OK, then I admit
I'm driven by making more money.

230
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:34,640
I like the idea of making more
money.

231
00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:39,880
And it's not just for me.
My daughter said something to me

232
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,000
that was, I can't even remember
what it was, but it was, you

233
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,800
know, you know, what about this
and you know what, what about,

234
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,440
you know, the effects of this?
And it was something that we

235
00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,440
didn't agree on.
And I said, I don't care about

236
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,320
that for me.
I care about it for you.

237
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,040
Like I'm not doing it because
it's going to affect my life.

238
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,280
It's going to affect your life,
right?

239
00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,880
So, and it's sort of a
perfunctory point of view with

240
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,200
parents is that you want to make
sure your kids have, you know,

241
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,400
do well and have what they need
and you know, have a good life.

242
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,800
But it's true.
I mean, it's not that I'm going

243
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,480
to give the money to the kids
and that's why I'm doing in this

244
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,840
is I want to, you know, money is
freedom gives you options,

245
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,440
right?
Like I had a estate planning

246
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,920
lawyer that I used for one of my
early estate plans.

247
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,520
And I said, you know, he was, we
were friendly enough that I said

248
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,800
to him, he said, what a
miserable way to make a living

249
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,600
doing estate plans for people.
And he goes, you're right.

250
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,600
And I said, you know, how did
this all come about?

251
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,280
And he said, well, if my parents
had told me that there was some

252
00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,720
money there for me to start a
business and there was, but they

253
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,000
didn't tell me I would be doing
something much different than

254
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,840
this.
And I had to do this because I

255
00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:01,520
didn't know I had an option.
So he, he was lamenting that had

256
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,600
he known that he could launch a
business, even if it was failed,

257
00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,480
if it would have been a great
education process, He was

258
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,400
lamenting that he wishes they
had made a different decision

259
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,040
when the time is right.
Because one of them launched

260
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,200
Remake has launched a business
and they're wildly successful.

261
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,880
Actually, both.
Two of them, one of them I

262
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,280
helped finance, one of them I
didn't.

263
00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,000
So I want to give them those
options, you know, so they can

264
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,400
create.
You know, I have a friend of

265
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,720
mine that wrote a book and it's
about people who have money

266
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,640
don't realize that they can.
They worry about things that at

267
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,360
that stage in their life, at
certain stages in their life,

268
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,440
that maybe they ought to not
worry about it anymore and think

269
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:51,240
about living their best life.
Like, OK, you've got 30 million

270
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:55,920
bucks, enjoy it, right?
Don't don't worry about all the

271
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,160
stuff that you worried about
while you're making the $30

272
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,840
million because you're at a
different point.

273
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,480
So that's what I hope to give
them is the that that

274
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,360
optionality.
Yeah, that's beautiful.

275
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,440
That's beautiful.
And you're, you know, you're

276
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,920
passing on so much more than
just the option and the

277
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,520
opportunity or you're passing on
as the mindset.

278
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,160
And it's just like the, you
know, the individual that she's

279
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:21,920
30 million.
As an example, someone who has a

280
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,640
net worth of $30 million might
still be thinking about the fear

281
00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,200
that they had when they were
just starting out, even though

282
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,880
the numbers are, are vastly
different.

283
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,160
It's the conditioning that
happens during those times when

284
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,200
we're life is heavy and that
heaviness can stay with us if

285
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,600
we're not aware of it.
So another thing that you're

286
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,960
you're passing on, it's just a
beautiful mindset of this idea

287
00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:47,600
of freedom.
And yes, money gives you

288
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,160
options.
It's not the answer for

289
00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,840
everything, but it definitely
gives you.

290
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:52,960
Definitely gives you options,
yeah.

291
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,640
Options.
Yeah, I think that's one thing

292
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,120
we have in common.
Money motivated and mission

293
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,520
driven.
There the there's often an axiom

294
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,480
saying people say, well, it's
not about the money.

295
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,440
Well, when someone says it's not
about the money, it is about the

296
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:13,440
money, right?
And when someone says I don't

297
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,560
think about it in terms of
money, it's true.

298
00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,720
It's because you have money when
you don't have money.

299
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,400
It's a completely different
construct, right?

300
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,520
It's easy to say it's not about
the money when you have it.

301
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,320
So you know, when, when some
rich people say you know, it's

302
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,800
not about the money, I'm not
buying it most of the time.

303
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:37,280
Yeah, it is a shift in
perception for sure.

304
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:39,880
Let's turn to beliefs.
I want to hear a little bit

305
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,200
about your beliefs around the
world.

306
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,800
What are the beliefs that you
hold in terms of where we are in

307
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,320
the world?
Maybe something that might be a

308
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:51,520
little bit more, not necessarily
aspirational, but visionary, so

309
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,000
where we are in the world now,
beliefs that you hold that most

310
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,560
people don't see yet.
So I know you have a strong

311
00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,840
intuition and I know that you're
a visionary.

312
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,560
Why are some beliefs?
That get carried away.

313
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:09,320
Yeah.
So I'm dyed in the world of

314
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,440
American.
I think this is the best country

315
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,760
in the world.
And I've been to many others and

316
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,240
I think that people who haven't
travelled have a disadvantage

317
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,560
because it doesn't take long
when you travel to other parts

318
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,360
of the world to see how much
different this is.

319
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:31,840
I mean, it's immediately obvious
and depending on where you go.

320
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,480
So I think that 250 year
experiment, while it's not

321
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,120
perfect, is pretty darn good.
And I think that it's like what

322
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,720
I think it was, Alexis de Toefl
said capital and capitalism is

323
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,400
the worst construct of them,
except for all the others,

324
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,840
right?
Something like that.

325
00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,480
So it's not perfect.
And we have the thing that we

326
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,960
have here that is much different
than other parts of the world

327
00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,840
that I've not only been to but
done business in is that graft

328
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,320
is a way of life in other parts
of the world.

329
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,640
And rule of law doesn't really
come into play in many parts of

330
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,240
the world.
And so we have a huge advantage

331
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,960
here, not only that we have a
large population, but we have

332
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,480
rule of law.
That's not perfect, but you can

333
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,280
count on it on some level.
And other parts of the world

334
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:28,640
just depends on who you pay off.
And that, you know, everybody

335
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,040
talks about leveling the pant
playing field.

336
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:35,040
That playing field in other
parts of the world is nowhere

337
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:40,040
near level right, because if you
don't have the right people and

338
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,800
it's, it's true here about right
people, connections and money,

339
00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:47,560
but you're so far, there's no
way to get out of misery in some

340
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,320
of those other parts of the
world.

341
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,240
At least there's there's the
opportunity to do that.

342
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:56,920
So I think that, I mean, aside
from that overreaching view that

343
00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,560
I think we're so lucky that
we're, we're, I think we're on

344
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,680
some sort of trajectory to keep
it that way.

345
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,320
Not to get political about it,
but I think that we dodged.

346
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:12,120
Just a big bullet, you know, had
had the current administration

347
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:15,880
in whatever form it would have
been in, would have been, you

348
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,800
know, would have been a complete
disaster and may not been a

349
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,080
recoverable event.
But I mean, that's just my

350
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,520
opinion and it's opinion that's
I've done.

351
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,200
So you have read a lot, right?
I've dug really deep on what

352
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:35,160
really is going on behind the
scenes and it's ugly, right?

353
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,160
Even in this administration,
it's ugly, but it can get really

354
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,240
out of control.
Had it.

355
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:47,840
We continue to allow the cycle
of money to and you know, just a

356
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,320
good example is, you know, all
the contributions to political

357
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:58,440
campaigns is just, you know, and
many times money laundering that

358
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,440
just loops back around and funds
the the person that you're

359
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:06,120
supporting in the campaign
because they arranged for you to

360
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,960
get that money through nefarious
means.

361
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,160
I mean, I'm not making this up.
This is the way the world works

362
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,080
in in this in large part.
And so I think a lot of that can

363
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,120
be thwarted and still maintain a
safety net with people.

364
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,200
And so really found the
political thing.

365
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:24,480
But it's not your fault.
My fault.

366
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,640
It's OK, Yeah.
No, I I understand what you're

367
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,760
saying though.
It is, you know, we're in a

368
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,520
time, we live in a time when,
when we have to do our own due

369
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,400
diligence, are we?
Can't believe anybody.

370
00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,800
Yeah, to be independent
thinkers.

371
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,360
I think one of the things I love
studying Napoleon Hill and one

372
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,760
of the things he always talked
about was being an independent

373
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,240
thinker.
Even raising my son, teaching

374
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:54,960
him not what to think, but how
to be an independent thinker,

375
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,800
how to get curious, how to
politely challenge points of

376
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,680
view where maybe something
didn't cig right.

377
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,960
Because we all, like I said
before, we all come from our own

378
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:06,680
worldview.
What we think is.

379
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,960
Our life experiences, our
worldview.

380
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:13,080
I think what you're talking
about is the lack of teaching

381
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:15,480
critical thinking.
Because that's really what

382
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,840
matters is OK, If you say it's
that way, explain to me why.

383
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,400
And Kate, I didn't interrupt
you, but I give a lot of people

384
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,720
a pass because if you're busy
working 9:00 to 5:00, Rob,

385
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,240
picking up Johnny and going to
soccer, making sure dinners on

386
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,600
the table, getting up next
morning, doing it all over

387
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:43,200
again, you don't have time to
dive deep into that may warrant

388
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,600
that.
And so oftentimes people will

389
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,480
attach themselves to an ideology
that supports what they think is

390
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:57,280
the right thing, but often has
no basis in them doing the

391
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,840
critical thinking to support
that.

392
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,560
It just echoes what they think
is true, right?

393
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,200
And I don't blame them because,
you know, we only have so much

394
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,080
time, right?
Yeah, It is the case when

395
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,680
somebody's in a situation where
they're captured by some

396
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,960
ideology.
It's just a lot easier to go

397
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,400
along with it if it feels good,
right?

398
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,280
Yeah, yeah, either if it feels
good or if it taps into fear.

399
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,040
People are driven by fear as
well.

400
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,600
Yeah, totally.
So the fear of something, the

401
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,640
fear of something happening or
not happening, it's real.

402
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,600
And you're right, it's it's very
palpable.

403
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,440
I kind of missed the days when
you could watch the news and it

404
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,240
was just the reporting of the
news.

405
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,880
And then you got to think for
yourself whether it was Gravatt

406
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,640
I.
Think that's gone?

407
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,360
It wasn't the drama and
sensationalism that there is

408
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:47,880
now.
No spin.

409
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,400
Well, it is a natural outgrowth
of capitalism.

410
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,000
Capitalism, which is bad, right?
So we have good things and bad

411
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,240
things, free markets, you know,
pretty good model capitalism,

412
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,920
pretty good model socialism.
Some people would argue, I'd say

413
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,120
we all know it's failed.
Communism, of course, has its.

414
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,080
And so what's happened, it's
really simple if you pay

415
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,040
attention.
Is that the narrative on the

416
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,040
network news?
Let's say all of it is based on

417
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,360
who's paying the bills.
If you just follow the money,

418
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,200
why?
Why do pharmaceutical companies

419
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:31,760
advertise all these drugs on TV?
It's not because they hope that

420
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,680
you're going to go to your
doctor and ask for that drug.

421
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,840
That's the farthest thing from
their mind.

422
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,720
What they're doing is paying off
the network by advertising so

423
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,320
they don't do an expose about
how bad the drug is.

424
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,680
Yeah.
So I mean that is not rocket

425
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,680
science to figure out, but most
people aren't going to connect

426
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,320
that those dots.
You know, they don't have this

427
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,600
is not in their scope to even
think like that.

428
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,280
I heard today that one of the
Super Bowl ads is from a

429
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,080
pharmaceutical company, and I
think it's probably the GLP 1,

430
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,080
you know, the weight loss.
Item.

431
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,280
We didn't, yeah.
Yeah.

432
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,760
But interesting that that they
have an ad.

433
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,160
I think that ads are 8 million
for 30 seconds or something like

434
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:16,400
that.
So it'd be interesting to see

435
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,680
what that looks like.
But I want to turn, I want to

436
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,680
turn our conversation really to
legacy and meaning because I

437
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:28,400
think this, you've touched on a
lot of this, your journey as an

438
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,720
entrepreneur and the resilience
that it takes to get through

439
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,800
those times when you know, you
had young kids and things

440
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,120
weren't going as you had hoped.
But really picking yourself up

441
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:43,080
and moving yourself through that
to be able to create the life

442
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,440
that you have today, which is
really, really powerful.

443
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,840
So my question is this, it's if
the businesses disappear

444
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,360
tomorrow and only your impact on
people remained, what would you

445
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:57,040
hope that they would say about
you?

446
00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,760
Yeah, thanks for asking that
question.

447
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:06,480
Super uncomfortable, Yeah.
I don't mean to be like mushy

448
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,840
about it, but thoughtful and
kind person.

449
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:11,000
Yeah.
The business stuff is just in

450
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,280
our current construct, the way
to buy freedom.

451
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,320
You know, many of the businesses
are super interesting to me and

452
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,080
I'm somewhat passionate about
some of them and not so

453
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,840
passionate about the others and
really passionate about some.

454
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:30,160
So I don't have a desire that,
you know, I built X or AWS or

455
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,680
Amazon and that was my lasting
legacy.

456
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,280
I, I just hope that if I had
interactions with people, they

457
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,280
would think I was thoughtful and
kind and in some way or enriched

458
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,720
their lives.
And I don't see it like if I

459
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,800
build this huge thing and that
was my legacy, I don't look at

460
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,640
it that way.
Yeah, it's more the the human

461
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,080
aspect of of who you are as a
person.

462
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,120
I think that's what, you know,
when we talk about authenticity

463
00:26:56,120 --> 00:27:01,000
and genuineness and
vulnerability and all the

464
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,920
wonderful things that Parne
Brown and others talk about.

465
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,640
I think most, for me, most of
authenticity or really all of

466
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:12,280
authenticity is just being who
you are and being comfortable

467
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,440
with who you are.
And I think you impact.

468
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,080
That's one of the things I
really admire about you, Arthur,

469
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,920
is that you do impact people,
but in a way that's only you.

470
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,800
It's truly who you are.
I appreciate that.

471
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,280
And how hasn't always been that
way?

472
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,160
By the way, for the record, on
this recording, I've been a bad

473
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,320
dad.
I've screwed people out of

474
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:33,080
stuff.
I have not made all the right

475
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,680
decisions.
You know, I've done bad things

476
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,680
in my life, right?
Not necessarily with intent,

477
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,360
just circumstantial, right?
And that's not my excuse.

478
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:46,200
I'm just saying I could have
done better on a lot of things,

479
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,800
right?
But, you know, I think the

480
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,040
hazard is not learning from
those things.

481
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:55,840
Yeah, it is.
I I really believe that's true,

482
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,800
that everything in our lives,
whether we look back and think,

483
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,200
wow, I would not do that again
or I would do that totally

484
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,960
differently.
I think there's, there's so much

485
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,880
value in staying in the lesson.
It's one of the things I talked

486
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,520
to my son about.
He's 29.

487
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,480
He's a fire pilot.
And you know, when you're in the

488
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,520
government structure, you're
kind of in a structure.

489
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:22,560
And he's very entrepreneurial,
very, very creative.

490
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,160
And I told him, I said, don't
miss the moment, the opportunity

491
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,920
that you have now to learn
lessons from the environment

492
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,680
that you're in.
Good advice.

493
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,960
I hope he's taking it in, but
they're they're I believe there

494
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,600
are lessons that he will go on
to use with his own son.

495
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,280
He they have a little boy.
I have a grandson a year and a.

496
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:44,840
Half.
Yeah, Great.

497
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,040
And I, and they are.
It's the story of your life,

498
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:52,240
just like what you were saying
about the story of your life

499
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,120
with your dad and watching your
dad go through his struggles and

500
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920
how that shifted his life.
Yeah, totally.

501
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,400
It was.
It was Had he done a little bit

502
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,840
more self work again, I'm not
blaming him.

503
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,760
It's it is what it is, but he
probably would have bounced back

504
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,400
better from that had he done a
little bit of more what we were

505
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,680
we talk about, right?
You know, I think we talked

506
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,000
about this before, but you know,
Joseph Campbell, you know, one

507
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,080
liner life is full of sorrow.
Embrace it, right.

508
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,600
Wow.
Yeah, or even his work on the

509
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,640
hero's journey, knowing that
everybody has a hero's journey.

510
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,800
We all do it.
Just the color of the journey

511
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,320
looks different.
Maybe the duration of the

512
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,840
journey looks different, but
every one of us has a hero's

513
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,720
journey where you get to a point
and you have that breakthrough

514
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,840
if you keep going.
Like for you, Arthur, you didn't

515
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,640
quit when things weren't going
the way that you wanted them to

516
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,000
go.
Life was tough.

517
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,440
You had kids to support.
You didn't quit.

518
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,360
Yes.
So give me kudos for that.

519
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,160
But I also didn't have a choice,
right?

520
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,760
I had to do something.
I could have gone and got a job,

521
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,520
yes, that I didn't didn't submit
to but.

522
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,600
Yeah, Yeah.
So you so you stayed in the

523
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,960
rigor.
You know, when I was raising my

524
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:19,000
son, I raised him as a single
mom and I deliberately decided

525
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,040
that my life was going to be
providing for us and providing

526
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,960
for him and putting him in
schools where he was able to

527
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,080
speak freely and to think
critically.

528
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,880
And to.
So for him, that environment was

529
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,880
the right environment for him to
put him in private schools.

530
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,680
I'm not saying that's right for
everybody, but you have to know

531
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,600
yourself and you have to know
your children and what you're

532
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,800
willing to do to get through.
You know, how far are you

533
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,360
willing to go?
For me, that's you know, where

534
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,160
we talked about the book Anti
fragile.

535
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,920
That's where we become have that
inner fortitude resilience

536
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,280
become anti fragile to life.
And it's like the cedar tree.

537
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,520
The cedar tree can really bend
or the palm tree can really bend

538
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,920
in Highwind, but it comes right
back up.

539
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,760
And I think that's a beautiful
example.

540
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:13,320
Do you think, I'm sorry, do you
think that based on at the time

541
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:18,280
that you did that there were in
my view, if I got the time frame

542
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,240
right, but putting your child in
the right school so they could

543
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:27,200
have, you know, proper education
and think for themselves is that

544
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:32,600
opportunity if you were bringing
up kids today better, worse, the

545
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,160
same.
I always believed in putting him

546
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,440
in the school that was right for
him.

547
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,880
So I only have one son.
I believed in putting him in the

548
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:44,040
right school for him.
There were plenty kids that went

549
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,360
to the public schools that did
really well for me.

550
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,440
I needed that extra support
system of a school that I knew

551
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,040
had similar beliefs and values
that I was trying to reinforce

552
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:00,680
at home.
So not only was the academic

553
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,880
rigor much greater in the school
that he was in, like when he

554
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,680
went to college, yeah, it was a
breeze for him because of the

555
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,160
the work that he did in high
school.

556
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,720
But it was so much more than
just the academics.

557
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,320
It was his ability to formulate
an opinion point of view

558
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,040
independent from me.
I mean, if he had a difference

559
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,680
of opinion, that was totally OK
in our home.

560
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,720
So you know what?
I do it again today.

561
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,720
What I what I put him in that
school today.

562
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,360
Absolutely.
But he's talking about putting

563
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,360
his son moving back to the DC
area to make sure that his son

564
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,560
gets to go to that school.
Yeah.

565
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,280
So I know it had a positive
impact.

566
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,160
But yeah, we have, you know, as
parents, it's it's a test and

567
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:47,400
learn a lot of times isn't.
It times you just don't know.

568
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,600
Yeah, I know, I know.
Well, I have enjoyed speaking

569
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,280
with you and getting to know you
a little bit better.

570
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,680
Arthur, is there anything else
that you that we didn't touch on

571
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,840
that you would love to share?
No, but I really appreciate you

572
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,680
doing this.
You know, some people are

573
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,480
uncomfortable talking about
themselves.

574
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,680
And I think that I'm just
telling you the way it is,

575
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:09,520
right?
It's not.

576
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,520
I don't have any any secrets to
speak of, you know?

577
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:18,680
And I think that when I sit in a
room or on this call with you,

578
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,240
there's an energy that's
unmistakable.

579
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,560
And I think that part of what
you're reading from me is that I

580
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,600
can recognize other people that
can read that energy.

581
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,840
So you, when you're saying I'm
being authentic, I don't have

582
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,560
any other way of doing it.
There was a time where I was not

583
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,400
authentic because I didn't
think, I thought I had to be

584
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,720
something else, right?
And so maybe I graduated, maybe

585
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,320
I evolved, whatever it is, but I
don't know any other way to be.

586
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,000
And I think when you and I walk
into a room and we step up to

587
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,360
somebody, there's no, no, you
can feel the energy.

588
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:04,320
And the more you do that and
your radar is open for that, the

589
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,640
more accurate it gets.
Absolutely.

590
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:07,840
A friend of mine put it this
way.

591
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,080
He said.
The better you know yourself,

592
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,840
the better you can see through
people and not seeing through

593
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,560
them in a bad way.
But it's really, it's like a

594
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,199
next level ability to understand
people who they are and are

595
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:25,000
their words and harmony with
their actions and who they say

596
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:26,840
they are.
I think when you're sensitive to

597
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,760
that energy you can pick that up
if it's not congruent.

598
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:34,360
Yeah, yeah, it's a good radar.
Yeah, it is.

599
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,560
So though, the more you use it,
the better it gets, right?

600
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,360
Just like intuition.
Yeah, absolutely.

601
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,719
Somebody asked me, they said how
do you know the voice, The

602
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,360
difference between the voice of
intuition and the voice of fear?

603
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,679
Well, the voice of fear is
generally very loud.

604
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,719
The voice, this is the way I
look at it, the voice of

605
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,280
intuition, and it goes along
with what you just said.

606
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,720
The more you listen to your
intuition and yield to that soft

607
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:02,120
voice, it's a softer voice.
It's like when my son calls, he

608
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,960
doesn't have to say Mom, it's
David.

609
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:08,560
I know and I know his voice.
So understanding what the voice

610
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,880
of intuition feels like and how
it speaks to you is really it's

611
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,520
the skill that you can build
over time.

612
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,560
And super valuable I think.
Yeah, absolutely.

613
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,200
OK, One closing question.
This is a big question, OK?

614
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,880
Super Bowl Sunday, Patriots or
Seahawks?

615
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,280
Seahawks.
Awesome, I love it.

616
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,200
It's because I know something.
Not really.

617
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,920
Well, wait a second.
Should I have my money on the

618
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,240
Seahawks then?
Yeah, I would, Yeah.

619
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:36,960
So if you lose it all, don't
call me but.

620
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,160
So you haven't met Mary, but
Mary is.

621
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,440
We're not married, but she might
as well be.

622
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,720
My wife is Brooklyn girl and she
is athletic trainer by

623
00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:52,280
profession and doesn't do that
anymore because it's a terrible

624
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,680
way to the person that runs out
on the field when somebody gets

625
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,760
hurt.
Terrible way to make a living.

626
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,760
But she's super good trainer for
me when we go to the gym and

627
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,520
also physically fit and it looks
fantastic.

628
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,080
But she is the big football fan
in our house.

629
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:12,040
I mean, I was only interested
because I could go to football

630
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,200
games and entertain people and
have fun.

631
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,800
I wasn't really a big fan, so
I've become a big fan.

632
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,920
So she says Seahawks.
It's Seahawks.

633
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,360
Nice.
Well, I would say that she has a

634
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,240
little bit of an inside eye for
that, so I just hope it's a good

635
00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:27,440
game.
Me too.

636
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,000
Absolutely, Arthur, thank you so
much.

637
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,960
I really appreciate you and look
forward to chatting with you

638
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,600
again soon.
Thank you for doing this, really

639
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,240
appreciate it.
My pleasure.

640
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:41,360
Bye friend.
Bye.