The commodity that's going to be sought after is someone with a personality.

0:00 People are just going to go so far into technology. The commodity that's going to be sought after is someone with a personality that has an ability to be articulate and to connect and to tell a story verbally or maybe in public. That's the commodity I want to teach my kids. I want them to like, look somebody in the eye and say, hi, Arthur, nice to see you. Where did you vacation last, Bill? And creating this ability for connection because that's what Chachi BT won't be able to replicate. Hello, welcome everybody. Thanks for joining us in another episode of of Arthur's Round Table. Super excited. I've been trying to get Kristen to do this for a few weeks and it's my fault because we keep on screwing up the schedule.

0:40 So I'm super happy to have her here. And we have a long history together. I don't know, maybe 131415 years, something like that. In fact, we were colleagues in that at the beginning of Family Office Insights. Kristen helped me with narrative and writing, which is what she does right and for, among other things. So she was the original editor to the Peer Insights reports and then some. So we have a long and delightful history. So Kristen, thanks for doing this today. Arthur, it's always a pleasure to see you and be in conversation with you and I just overjoyed to be here. So let's do this. Thank you again. Let's start from the beginning. Talk about your journey because you've had lots of lives, but one of the things I don't like to share with everybody is that you've been consistently interested in food and travel, right?

1:31 You're back? Yeah. Where do I begin? I still, in my mind, think I'm very young, but, you know, 20 years in the wealth management family office space at this point. So the story began. I was a journalist. I studied journalism and theater in college. I wanted to go be on TV and be a broadcast journalist. And I quickly pivoted to written journalism. And I found my way into writing for Institutional Investor covering what was called wealth management. And I couldn't at the time define what wealth management was. Wasn't sure what the difference between a wealth manager or a private bank or an RIA. And then this term family office came up, which blew my mind. So I spent years doing what a lot of journalists are trying to do and develop sources. And that was a whole lot of fun because you get to actually like meet with people over coffee or drinks or. Especially in New York City, where it's, you know, conducive to that sort of activity, right?

2:27 I was out all week. I mean, I was never at my desk. And I remember one editor saying you're a bad journalist if you're sitting at your desk. And I took that to heart. So I spent years learning about that beat, understanding what wealth was. But you alluded to it before. At the same time I was, my heart was in this food travel lifestyle space. So I consistently freelanced for that. I would write articles, I go on press trips, I would cover that world at night, on the weekends sort of thing. So I kind of have these two parallel paths always happening, covering the wealth landscape, covering food, wine, travel, lifestyle, and eventually and we'll get to it. But today that those two worlds of have crossed. And I think as every journalist comes to some point in their career, they try to figure out how I make more money. What's the next step?

3:16 Am I going to just write about this thing for the rest of my life? And we work together at this point in our career too, was I worked for institutional investor the second time around where I created a family office networking group and then eventually transitioned to the conference side of the business where I was overseeing their family office practice both in the US and Europe. And that was a great, that sort of defined, I think my career and where I am today because I did the content component, the writing, the curating, the panels, finding speakers and all that. But I started developing this Rolodex meeting families all over the world. And my ask wasn't a big one. Right? I let's go grab a drink. Tell me your pain points.

3:57 What are your challenges? OK, would you like to come to this lovely event in Lake Como? So I put a lot of time into building I know, which is great. I do remember us singing Frank Sinatra at the piano bar. That was fun. But you know, and it was great, it was such a good time in my life where I was able to just meet people without any real agenda and get to truly understand the family office space, which was really neat. I, you know, met some great friends, traveled all over the world. And as you and I both know, eventually I met my husband there too. So just really very formative. And then COVID happened. I had two children and my last job before becoming entrepreneur, I was with Crane and I helped them launch their family office publication and their events business. And I had that aha moment that I think most entrepreneurs had. I sort of went back into the editorial seat and then I realized, but I also have this commercial mindset, right? Like I also can I see these concentric circles, I can put them together.

4:55 The Rolodex is worth something. You know, it feels like this is the right time to strike out on my own and do to do the thing for myself. So that led me to earlier this year, I left the corporate world behind. Yeah, this this calendar year, January officially. And I created my business called Wealth Reimagined. And it was my way of bringing in the family office space, the lifestyle component, all the things I'm good at. I'm putting it under one umbrella. So that was a really big moment for me. Yeah. So I call that the Goldman Sachs trade. What what I mean by that is that I tell my kids, I said, look, sooner or later, if you want go out on your own and wake up every morning toiling away for yourself. But you can go to Goldman Sachs, build a Rolodex on their brand that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do just because of their brand.

5:50 I mean, it's just a reality. Spend 10 years there, walk away with 10 million bucks. Meanwhile, they made 300 million. But now you have a Rolodex that you wouldn't otherwise been able to glean on your own. And shame on you if you don't do something on that. And that's exactly what you've done, right? A lot of people gave me that. I think you were probably the first one to give me that advice and several others in my career, people that I consider friends and mentors said build the Rolodex on someone else's time if you can. You know, and believe me, I did great work for all of those folks. And I, you know, we all put in long hours, but you know, being able to travel and have the expense account and, you know, take the time really is I don't know if I, if anyone asked me for my advice today, I would pass that along because absolutely.

6:35 An institutional investor was a good gig for you, right? Yeah, I worked there twice in my career. I mean, I met my husband, some of my best friends. I can't, I don't know, I need to like send them a thank you card probably. Yeah. So tell us how it's going so far, and what exactly would you like to see it evolve to? Yeah. So the easiest way of describing what Wealth Reimagined is, it's an editorial platform and an advisory services business, if that makes sense. So what I'm doing is doing all of the storytelling that I'm well known for, right? So we have a wealth management, sorry, Wealth Reimagined edit.

7:17 So that's my digital issue every month and that showcases Q&A's, interviews, podcast recordings, articles on travel and lifestyle. So all the things you, when you think of my name, we associate with the content that's there. The thing that I'm really leaning into, which feels really good to do since I'm now independent, is a lot more video content, podcasting. I launched my own YouTube. Page. You don't have to. Really dig into travel permission from anybody. I don't have to ask permission, right? And it's me. And I think, you know, when you're a traditional journalist and I also had a boss once tell me I wasn't kind of a journalist and I took that as a good thing. You know, I always felt like I I wanted to be part of the connectivity of the story too, right?

8:03 Like I had something to add as well. But when you're reporting, you know, you're the outsider, you're stepping back, it's the person you're talking to. And while I'd never overstep that boundary, I think now being in the position where I'm in to share my insights. And also I have this interesting viewpoint, right from hearing all of these people's stories from over the years that sometimes when I'm interviewing somebody, I could say, you know, I just spoke to XY and Z person the other day and then this was their take and they love hearing that. So I just feel like I could add to the conversation more so than I could be for. So yes, an editorial, digital magazine, YouTube content, lots more on social media. So it feels very good to be there.

8:45 And then I have an advisory services business, so I take on clients. And a really good way of explaining this is sort of white labeling the things I've done in the past for other places I've I worked for, right strategy on how to approach the family office space, how to approach that client, the ultra high net worth client, writing, podcasting, dreaming up those editorial plans for what the next article should look like, that sort of thing. And then my other expertise is in curating these conferences and experiences. I think most people still really love this in person connectivity, which will never go away. But this next Gen. of folks are kind of done with the traditional conference, right?

9:25 How do we dream it better? How do we make it better? How do you and I get a chance to go somewhere, learn something, meet new people, and also have fun? So I think that's been my calling card for a while. So I do help clients do that. So it could be a family office retreat, it could be a conference, it could be a series of smaller events. But obviously I'm targeting folks that their end client is the ultra high net worth. And I'm able to provide those insights into this is how you should really develop relationships in this space. This is how you should approach them. These are some of the industry events you can look at that are really high, high caliber. So that's been fun. And then the third thing that Wealth Reimagine does is travel. I'm affiliated with for a travel, I'm certified travel advisor, but this is really just an amalgamation of all the things that I've done in my career.

10:14 So if someone hires me to do, say, a family office retreat, I can do everything from soup to nuts, right? I could do the travel, I could do the curation of the event. I could find the speakers. I could help bring the right humans into the seats. I'm just trying to work smarter and bring the things together. And you and I both know because we could talk about it for forever. I've travelled all over the world, I've carried conferences all over the world. I was crazy enough to plan my own wedding in Italy so definitely have the experience there. You had your wedding in two places, which was wild, right? I officially had three weddings. I got married at City Hall in New York City and we had a real three day wedding in Tuscany and then we had a party back in my hometown of Staten Island after it was all said and done.

11:00 So it was great. Same person three times. I can't say the same thing. So can we without disparaging anybody, and I'm purposely saying it that way or being harsh about the family office conference business. What do you see happening there? I mean, is there's been a fair amount of negative press about the way conferences are run for family offices. And there's lots of, we know them all. They're many of them are great people. What do you see trending there and how you, how would do you see it being without giving away the stuff that you would otherwise charge for? I'm not asking for free advice, sure, but talk, talk to us a little bit about what you see going on there.

11:43 So I alluded to this before. I think there is a big shift in the traditional conference model being dead, where people are tired of being talked at, you know, sitting at a panel droning on for 45 minutes to an hour, slow moderation. You know, we've all been there and we don't go for that, right? We're going for the connectivity and the, you know, the drinks and meeting new people. And I think some, you know, places, media organizations, conference companies just can't figure out how to innovate there. And I saw that I really was. It's part of the reason why I launched my own business. I thought all they keep trying to do is the same old thing. And marketing budgets for people that sponsor and underwrite these vents are getting smaller and smaller, even at the bigger, larger banks and investment firms that used to write the big checks.

12:30 That's changing, right? So now people have marketing dollars and they need to put it towards something, but they they're really thinking about it much more closely than they did in the these early 2000s where we're marketing budgets were really fat, right? So that's the biggest thing I've seen. And then I just saw a lot of these firms not innovating, just doing the same thing over and over. And then the ironic thing that I saw, everyone kept talking about succession planning in the family office space and wealth management. And then you'd look around the conferences and it, it really skewed towards the older generation. And I said, well, if you don't have people under 50 in this audience, what's the future of your business?

13:11 So that was another thing I noticed that I just thought, Oh my goodness, we need to be 1 reaching out to younger people, but you also have to be providing them an experience or an environment that they want to come to. You know, this was a criticism I used to get when I worked for firms. They would tell me I didn't have enough young people on panels or I didn't have enough women represented. And how dare I, because I'm a woman who loves covering topics like women and wealth. And I, my response to that always was, but I'm asking them. I'm asking younger people, diverse humans, like we're trying to make this, you know, a much more bigger picture. But they don't feel comfortable coming to these events for one reason or the other either. It's not attractive to them either if it's too long out of the office, you know what have you. So I think they're the, the whole world is shifting towards, it's an overused term, but like more experiences. Like am I going to something to sit in a room for two days and have people talk at me in a really dimly lit room with rubber chicken?

14:09 Or can I go to something where there's this connectivity I'm learning. Maybe there's two or three really great speakers or there's a workshop that I get to, you know, do something physically and talk to the person next to me and engage in. I think that's the future of it. I mean, like organizations like Future Proof have done a really nice job of sort of reimagining the large scale conference or what have you. I've spoken to that event twice and the first time I was there, I had to like reprogram my brain on how to be at an event. They're like, there's no suits, there's no whatever. And I was like, Oh my goodness, I don't even know how to do that. And by year two, I was loving every minute of it. So there's there are some companies that are seeing that trend, they're responding to it. They're trying to make it more fun. Is future proof the one from the guy from CNBC? Yes, it's it's run by Josh Brown and Ritholtz wealth management and they tape podcasts in the middle of it. They do cooking classes.

15:02 You can take 3 or 4 different types of exercise classes in the morning. And and I will say I've, I've couple of women in the industry have said this to me and I get it. You know, women have it the worst at industry conferences because you're wearing stupid high heels all day long, you're cold, you know, you don't get a chance to work out. You have to look a certain way. Like it's always very high pressure exhausting. Have you, you know, and then you can go to something like that where you feel a little bit more like a whole person. So I think that's, I think that the industry is trending that way. And then for me, and maybe this is just my personality, but I've always done better in smaller groups. I'm not an introvert in any sense, but I think if it's twenty people versus 200 people, I'm going to get a lot more out of it.

15:52 When I, when I think of curating events or if I think of the ones I've gone to that I've really enjoyed, it's the smaller scale stuff. It's more intimate. I think you can learn more. I, I think you could genuinely come away with a new friend. And I think those, I think that's where the next rising Gen. whatever we want to call it, younger people coming into the industry are looking for because they don't want to take three days out of the office to go to Convention Center in Orlando, right? It's just. It's just. Not the way anymore. It's really not a lot of fun and many of these have also been boondoggles for people to find jobs right where you go every year. How's your career going? Oh, there's somebody over here looking for something which is omnipresent in almost every industry conference. It's not relegated to family office type stuff. So there's some of that, I think. What do you think the the challenge, at least from my perspective, is many of the people that I know that the sponsors would like in the room aren't going to come because they're doing their own experience with their own money in their own way, your own family. And they don't need to have somebody else arrange that for them.

17:15 And then they are the three of 50 people in the room that have the yellow tags and they get accosted. So it's it ends up being an unpleasant experience. How do you fix that? Can you I? Don't know if you can. I think that's that's the problem with the traditional sponsor model and you just hit on the head like family offices don't need to come to anything. And I think the ones that are really well resourced while structured and maybe multi generational family offices that are set absolutely will never attend one of those events because there's there's really no need. The ones that I think do I've seen a rise in like the startup family office. So maybe someone just got plucked from another industry or another job to now take over a family office. Those folks need the networking, right, because they need to understand operations, activity, how do you kind of manage the family?

18:07 And they'll get that through the peer networking. But the fact of the matter is it's always a nice to have, right? So you have to be offering something that is a little unique and maybe it's a little bit more flexible and not as rigid as some of those other groups used to be. I think the hardest thing for me when I was curating them was always almost policing who was a proper family office and who wasn't right. That was almost the bane of my existence for a decade plus. You know, who is, who's who they say they are. Do they match this criteria? I mean, I, I would argue now the family office of today even looks a lot different than 15 years ago. And there is a lot of money people like. So I think I'm a family office.

18:51 How do I get it started? I had a great conversation with a friend just last week who business owner, what have you just decided he's going to launch his own family office. Definitely has the capital and, and, and you know, the presence and the structure to do it. And he was telling me all about how he's really integrated AI into putting this all together. He's got a tiny little team and he's really kind of built out this virtual family office, which I think is becoming more of the norm than it was in years gone by. So I'm also seeing that, you know, how many resources do they need? But I guess on the flip side of that would be if you're building this virtual thing and it's up and running, it's really efficient, which is all great. And maybe it's cheaper to run it than it did 20 years ago.

19:34 They may want the connectivity. They may want to sit in a room with peers over dinner to be able just the camaraderie, I think. So there's there's a space for it, but I think anybody who's curating these events are like looking to build out these groups really have to understand the nuances and how it's changing, how technology has changed and how COVID has changed it and just really ultimately knowing it's a nice to have for family offices. Yeah, I've just struggled in justifying ever doing, although I think you know that we did one conference for Family Office insights at the UN right before COVID. And I think that, I don't think I know that there was one other time that we did a conference and they were both largely successful in if you measured them in terms of the legit family offices that showed up. And that we didn't expect to monetize it in any way. Just yeah, we weren't standing there at the dorm and saying make sure we got paid.

20:36 And that was part of the success, is that, you know, we finance the thing ourselves, more or less, right? I think that makes a big difference is like, is it a commercial mindset? Are you doing it for what? Whatever reason you're doing it for, which makes a difference? And I've asked you the question, but I'm going to partially answer it myself. What we've done is just quietly do small events private with a handful of people that I know and, and just sit around and shoot the shit without any sponsor. And I will admit that I'm grateful that I'm in a position to do that because I don't have to squeeze every penny out of family office insights, you know, So I'm in a position where I can do that, where I don't have to worry. I don't have to make sure that I'm making money every, everything that we do because there's other stuff going on. Do you think that the I don't need to belabor this, but one of the things that I struggled with was that the people who were doing the family office conferences, that was the way that they made their living.

21:43 And so they had to make sure they made enough money out of it to sustain the business, their lifestyle or whatever it is. And fortunately, I've been in a position where I haven't had to do that right. There's lots of other ways we're making money. Do you think that the traditional method of sponsor dollars catalyzing the ability to do a conference to get people in the room is dead dead, or is it still have legs? Good question. I think there is a way you could do it more seamlessly that might feel more authentic today than it did before. But I think where it's to pay for play model, I think that's dead in my opinion, just because it's just too hard.

22:28 You can't once you do pay for play where it's so many different sponsors just paying to be in the room. You've already bastardized your Rolodex. The hope of families not being sold to every 5 seconds. Is there a model where you have a sponsor, a couple maybe sponsors in kind Where they just, they're just, they're providing something or or they're, they're just there in the room and they're not speaking? I think there's ways of going about that that feels more authentic because I think at the end of the day, people know, you know, someone has to underwrite an event. So I think that's important. So I would say always the less sponsors, the better. And I think if you can make money elsewhere and then have the event really truthfully be focused on content and connectivity, if you could do that, then you've you've definitely wanted.

23:15 So I think there are smaller organizations doing really great things in in that place. I think the traditional media method that's just also has a family office event is more likely to fall into that pay for play model just because that's what their overall model is. And that does work in other parts of finance. It works in other industries, right. But I think with the family offices, it just often doesn't. Yeah, just because this is recorded and I don't want anybody to get upset, I say don't give a shit. Just the, you know, there are conferences that have become huge, which people are happy to go to and pay because they get to run around in the hallways.

23:57 And so that's, like you said, in other parts of finance. It seems to work. Yeah, the pay play model, right. I think that's true, yeah. Yeah. I mean, real estate's a great example of that. Like there's a lot of great real estate conferences or that's the model and it just works. You know, I think the family office space is just so nuanced. You also mentioned this, too. I mean, I think there's different models now, right? There's membership models or people pay a fee and then they're attending events, so each event isn't underwritten or they don't have a sponsor per event. That usually lightens the load. Other things, if there's a nominal ticket fee to get in where the person has to buy into actually wanting to be there. Yeah, that's interesting too. So I think there's there are ways of doing it, but I think if you focus on smaller scale and quality, that's the best way forward. Yeah, I don't mind saying I went for the first time, even though I'd known about it and been invited prior to a conference that's held in Cayman in January, I think it is. I went for the first time last year and it was really good, like, and I wrote a check and I paid my own way and I was happy to do it.

25:07 Like I didn't feel like I yeah, that feels better to me. And a lot of people are not in a position to or are willing to do that. But I paid for my hotel room, I paid for my flights, I paid for the ticket price. And it was worth it, right? Yeah. So that there isn't, there's this inherent buy in, right? Like you want to be there, you pay for it. So I think that's that's something that's interesting. Now if you price that ticket too high, you may lose people and you might lose people regardless depending on people's budgets. But I do think that that buy in is important. I mean, even just in if we're not even talking about the family office space, like just how we buy things and how we attend things now, right? I think it's this 2025 mindset of, you know, you're buying into it.

25:52 Like if it's, if it's free or if it's coming to, you're probably more likely to push it aside and not care so much about it. Yeah, presumably if you pay for it, it has some value, right. So tell, tell us a little bit more of how the audience who might be listening to this can help you in your business and your new venture. Well, I am always looking to share interesting stories. So the thing that between me launching my business and well, between me leaving the corporate world and launching my business, I kind of took a mini sabbatical, which felt really good. And it wasn't really sabbatical because I have two young children. But you know, I wasn't working for three months and I kind of did this whole. You would have appreciated this, Arthur, like a soul searching, a moment of a lot less screen time, a lot less busyness.

26:37 And I'd had this business plan I've been sitting on and I was like, well, this is what I think I have to do, right? Like, let me try to figure out in the quiet moments, reading a book, being bored, you know, what is it that will come to me? And not to sound too spiritual or, or religious, but I was like, what am, what am I missing that the universe can kind of tell me about? And I learned a lot during that. I guess this this pause of mine and just having conversations with friends with no agenda. I was trying to figure out what really mattered to me, right? Like was and and believe me, making money matters to me. I'm definitely a capitalist who believes in, you know, making money. But at the same time, I was like, but who am I at my core?

27:20 And it really just kept coming up over and over. I'm a storyteller. I like telling people stories. I like conversations like this where it feels like we're really together and we're connecting. And I wanted to focus on telling stories that mattered to me because I cover the whole spectrum of wealth, right? Everything from investing to trust in the States to, you know, you name it. Like everything that I've covered and the things that kept coming back to me were stories about legacy, about lifestyle, about the family and this like family connectivity, the dynamics. And the other thing that was really resonated with me was this connectivity about women and wealth, right? We keep hearing about this great wealth transfer coming up and all this money coming into the hands of women. But even me in my 40s, I look around and talk to my girlfriends.

28:07 Many of them are really underprepared, have no clue about the finances. Maybe, you know, the breadwinner themselves or just as much as their partner, and they're still not educated. So I just felt like, OK, I want to tell stories that are going to matter and that are going to move the needle forward and help people be proactive in their lives. So women and wealth is a huge component of the content I cover. Philanthropy and giving back is something, but also just highlighting stories about entrepreneurs, people doing really interesting things, things that may be impacting our world in the future. So I think that was really powerful. So, you know, people that are listening that may have a story to share, may want to talk about it. You know, I, I love to sort of share those stories that aren't in the mainstream media that aren't getting the credit or maybe they're not the senior professional in their establishment.

28:56 So, you know, how do we help this rising Gen. share their stories too? I think technology and social media has made there's so much information out there, but some people just aren't equipped in like getting their narrative right, right. Like how do I position myself? How do I market myself? How do I be part of the story? How do I get on the next panel? How do I get invited to that next conference? So I think, you know, people that are interested in sharing those sorts of stories with me, I would love to hear them, anyone that's looking and particularly anything that's connected sort of this lifestyle legacy component, because sort of my new thing is legacy and lifestyle is the new wealth and I want to start telling those stories so. It's a little overused, but experiences are the new sort of aspirational wealth.

29:45 So someone said to me today, you're going to love this. I was talking with a family office friend in London who always gives me the best books to read. He gave me 100 year life once, which I loved about longevity and how we need to look at like our stages of our life, 9, three life cycles. But you know, when maybe we never retire, a sort of thing. And he gave me a book today. Oh, I'll pull it up right now. And it had this concept called. It's called Die with 0 and. There's a concept of. Roe return on experience. Arthur, how cool is that? Roe return on experience And he was explaining to me, I cannot articulate it well because I've not read the book, although it's sitting in my Amazon cart now. But this concept of, you know, we can't, we're dying, can't take it with us, right?

30:30 So how do we use there's a lot of people that have all this wealth and maybe it aren't even using it for any reason, right? They're just kind of hoarding it. So how do you guess? It would be great if you want to do good with it, wonderful. But even how are you just enjoying it like with your friends, your family in a way that's connected, you know, so I love that concept of return on experience. I'm like oh I can't wait to read this but. So I've spent a fair amount of time with a handful of people who have endless amounts of money. And I learned this through a friend in detail, because he's kind of the expert at it is instead of doing the traditional, I've got to make sure I pass all this money on and make sure my heirs have.

31:15 Why don't you figure out what your best life is and live it now, right? Because the money is, is meaningless, right? It's not. It's just there. And so I think that part of the paradigm shift was everybody's telling me I have to secure my stay rich money, which is fine, But meanwhile I'm agonizing over spending your 50 grand on a vacation for my family. And I should be doing that willingly and maybe 100, right, Because it's it doesn't even it doesn't even make a dent, right. But meanwhile I get to spend time with my family. I don't know if you saw the Have you watched Land Man with Billy Bob Thornton? No, put on the list, land man, got it. No, this is epic.

32:03 He he's making the rounds now because he has the next episode. But Taylor Sheridan, who did film that was largely filmed in Park City, UT, what was the name of it? I'll think of it in a second. Anyway, so there's a scene in Land Man where the guy that owns the Dallas Cowboys comes in to A to this is not a spoiler to basically Land Man's an oil guy and the guy that owns the oil company is on his deathbed. You know, he's young, but he's so stressed out. And the guy that owns the Dallas Cowboys comes in and makes his big speech that everybody loved about how he's in. The best thing he ever did was being business with his family.

32:46 So his family and his kids could be part of his business. And that far exceeded the exponential wealth that he's created. But his stories like that that are moving and it's been talked about in the media quite often, despite how bad the beat he is in general. And then there's another scene in land man. It's a must watch by the way, Kristen or talks about climate change and why we all are dependent on oil because it's all about the oil, the business of oil and how hard it is and dangerous it is. But it also Billy Bob Thornton makes his big speech to somebody who doesn't really understand how much oil we actually use and that we have to continue to produce it until we find appropriate replacements.

33:28 And it's, yeah, epic dialogue, the storytelling thing that you would love just because that's exactly what it is. It says, wait a minute, you're looking at it from a from a perspective that we don't need oil. Well, we need it until we find something else, right? And it is just, well, that's. Fascinating. Yeah, great stuff. I love finding books or TV that sort of relate to our space because I actually put that in every of my one of my digital issues. I always say what I'm reading or I'm watching or what have you. And I love to hear that. OK, land man, I've got it and you have to read Die with Zero and we'll reconnect. Yeah. So the storytelling is, I mean, back to the original Romans and Greeks and Shakespeare.

34:15 I mean, it's always been about storytelling. You bet. And Andreessen Horowitz just came out today and it's like I this is not like an epiphany, but they're saying storytelling will be the gold of this generation because everything else can be done by ChatGPT except for the human element in the end, right? And so it can make up great stories. We were just, Mary and I were just laughing this morning because The New Yorker comes out with those cartoons and then it asks the audience to to write the caption.

34:55 And then you win. If you write the caption that they select. Well, you can feed that cat that cartoon into chat TTV and have it write the caption for you, but it's no original thought. Like what fun is that right so. It's so funny you said this because I had this argue with my dad recently because he's hopped up on understanding AI and that every business will be listen. I have talked and written too much about how AI is being, you know, it's in everything and we we have to embrace it. Like there's there's no way that we're not embracing it. And but my father was saying, you know, looking at his two young grandkids, my kids saying, well, they're going to have to like learn AI. And I said they'll have to learn to use it.

35:35 I said, but you know, the things I'm going to teach my kids, it's how to talk to somebody, it's how to create a relationship, it's how to network. What's going to happen is people are just going to go so far into technology. The commodity that's going to be sought after is someone with a personality that has an ability to be articulate and to connect and to tell a story verbally or maybe in public who you know, every company is going to eventually need a CEO that can speak on CNBC and get out there and someone you know, salespeople will still need to exist because you know, there needs to be this connectivity. And I said, that's commodity. I want to teach my kids. I want them to like look somebody in the eye and say, hi, Arthur, nice to see you. Where did you vacation last? Right there in creating this ability for connection because that's what Chachi BT won't be able to replicate. And yes, I'm not saying let's not understand it and utilize it in a way that makes sense to streamline our businesses. I mean, AI has helped a lot actually in the launch of my own business and being able to make decisions faster and streamline efficiencies for sure.

36:36 But yeah, I think we all need to still be able to tell stories, you know? Tell stories, engage with people, look somebody in eye the eye, have a handshake, be be genuinely interested in what somebody's saying and list actually listening. Right? Because most people don't. No, I could see it every zoom I'm. Interesting to see. I was like, oh. If we just made a phone call, maybe someone would be. Forced to listen over here a conversation, you would be forced to listen, right How many times have you been in a conversation and the person that you're talking to is just waiting for you to shut up because they have the next thing on their mind that they want to say they're not even listening to you, right And I'm I'm being critical of that. As you know, most people are bad listeners and I think that with the immediate gratification nation that we've created through screen times and all these social networks, I'm not saying anything that's, you know, hasn't been said before, but you know, the sound bites and people getting, you know, you said when you were bored.

37:41 I don't think I've been bored in 50 years and I'm not being critical of you, but like. I'm only do it on airplanes and when I'm on a bus, I try to put my phone down. I don't connect to the Internet, and I try to just stare out the window. I really do because I think, and believe me, I'm not doing anything perfectly in terms of shutting down screen time. But that's been my new If I'm on a bus going to New York City, if I'm on an airplane going somewhere, maybe I'll watch a movie if it's a long flight. But after that it's reading or staring at the window. Totally, Yeah. Yeah. When I would regularly just stare out the window in New York City because it's so much fun, you know, taking an Uber from one place to another, it's always interesting to see what's going on there. But yeah, I think that the storytelling and then the editing skill was going to be super valuable because you can have the AI do all the grunt work. Then you have to look at it and say, does this make sense? Right.

38:35 Absolutely. I mean, I do that all the time. I I'm a copious note taker and especially, and believe me, it does cut down on time. And I did a really interesting AI for journalism program before I left Crane, which was very valuable to me. But you have to be looking at that two or three times. Like they don't get it. They don't understand new ones. They may attribute a quote to the wrong person. You know, like you have to be saying, OK, this is going to cut down my time by 70%, but I need to. And I think that's hard though for early career people, right mid stage, late stage career where we know what we're doing, like we're programmed to understand the nuances. But if you're 25 and you're early in a job, you don't know those nuances yet.

39:18 So it's really hard to use that from soup to nuts, Like those are gut check things that we've all just sort of developed. So I do think it's interesting to see how the younger people are utilizing it. But they're if they forget the human element of it, so much is going to be lost. And writing is going to be one of those like pure articles, books, what have you, is very much involved in in that sort of connectivity in the media. But you need to have that human connection to make it a story worth telling, I think. That and let's just look at the sales part of the thing. Nothing happens until something is sold, and the AI is not going to sell something for you. Might create a nice funnel, create a series of posts, create some activity, but you still have to pick up the phone or sit across the table and say, listen, there's a $2,000,000. Deal.

40:07 We're sitting and we're going to shake hands on it and you like me, I like you. We're going to make this happen. It's still shit has to be sold. I'm telling you, sales people are going to be a great commodity going forward, Pete. Like the people that truly know how to sell because they are listening and they're curious about the person they're selling to. That's going to be an art form that is going to be highly sought, I think sought after in in this future of AII. Think so too. Yeah, the the editing of the output with the human element and the nuances will be hugely valuable. So how can everybody, before we wrap things up, tell everybody how to find you? Fabulous. You can find me on LinkedIn at Kristen Oliveri.

40:49 You can find me on Instagram at Chris Oliveri. I have a YouTube channel under Wealth Reimagined and you can find me on my website wealthreimagined.com. So many ways to get into. Yeah, so can we. For example, you're doing a podcast now. Right, just on my own. I'm doing videos on the YouTube channel. But we can repost. I haven't gone so far as to, yeah, you can do all those things and I will obviously post this on on my site, but I haven't gone. I'm taking it like baby steps. I'm trying not to overwhelm myself day by day, but I was thinking it was a little easier to produce videos than a full length podcast. But I mean, who knows?

41:30 That could be my future. Yeah, I think you should. Sure. It's a bad word. I think it would be productive for you. So I don't mind having this on the recording, too. What was? And she's going to kill me for not remembering her name because she was so sweet. Your friend who stepped up at my son's art showing at Nouriel Roubini's house. Goodness. You remember I called. Was I there? I wasn't there. I know I gave you somebody, but yeah. Was your friend that we sat on top of the sole house a couple times? Your girlfriend, who was the actress Joanna? Joanna Yeah. My best friend Joanna, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Remember she, she stepped up when Tyler, my son, was in the like an urgent need that was so great of her. Yeah, Joanna.

42:17 Joanna's the best. Yeah, she's still the best. She's still living her best life in New York City, too. Good to hear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to say hi to her so. I will. I'll tell you said hi. Would you? That would be awesome, yeah. I will. Yeah, this has been great. So good to see you. I'll see you in New York City without I'll. I'll let you know when we're coming in and then we'll make sure everyone gets a copy of this. We'll go get have Greek food, obviously. Let's do it. Thank you, Arthur. So fun. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for being here. All right, the recording's off.