Revolutionizing Philanthropy: The Role of Technology. Arthur's Round Table Episode.

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OK, Hello.
Welcome, everybody.

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Thanks for joining another
episode of Arthur's Round Table.

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Alex and I have known each other
for just a short period of time,

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but we've gotten well acquainted
and he's doing some really cool

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stuff for philanthropy and also
business structure.

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So super happy to have Alex with
us today.

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Welcome.
Thanks for being here.

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Alex.
You want to just give everybody

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a little background on your
journey and then let's get into

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the weeds about DAF Share.
Sounds good?

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Well, I think to go way back and
start at the beginning, I was

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fortunate enough to be at the
University of Minnesota in about

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1995 when there wasn't a
graphical Internet yet.

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It was still just text.
And after I saw it, I kind of

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got hooked.
And then I went to another

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school the following year, and
they boxed through the computer

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lab and tried to find geeks to
build the college's website.

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And I have to be one of them.
And I started out as a

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programmer, eventually realized
I wasn't as good a programmer as

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some of the others.
So I became a graphic designer.

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So then I realized there were
better graphic designers.

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And so almost accidentally, I
started my first company.

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I actually had a professor that
tried to recruit me to build his

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law firm website and made a deal
with me that he'd help me start

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my company if I could build
their firm's website.

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And he introduced me to some of
his friends.

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So that was kind of my foray
into technology, specifically

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the Internet.
Since then, that company that I

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first started ended up going
pretty well, but it was pretty

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boring.
We just built websites.

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We did it for some, you know,
Fortune 500 companies, etcetera.

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And got to a point where we were
able to sort of exit from that

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and figure out what we wanted to
do when we said, we, we love

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everything we do, but we, we
don't want to work with clients

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anymore.
So we started doing our own

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things.
And so I've, I've started a

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number of companies since then
or sort of been sort of ACTO for

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hire.
And, you know, regardless of,

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you know, when I grow up wanting
to be a programmer and a

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designer and all those things,
I'm basically the sales guy and

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the, and the, you know, the
visionary because I've seen this

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from the beginning and I've
seen, you know, even today with

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what I've started now you've got
a fairly new industry that

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hasn't really been affected a
lot by technology.

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It's starting to happen.
But you see that, you see the

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same things I saw when I was
going door to door.

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So on websites where people were
saying, you know, this Internet

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thing's never going to stick
around.

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It's just a fad, you know,
having those same conversations

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today.
So it feels like Deja vu

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sometime.
No, it is.

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And, and actually even going way
back to that time in about 1999,

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one of the really formative
projects that we did, we worked

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with a company that was
basically saw them as a print

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company, but they did plan
giving content.

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So you could, you know, get a
newsletter and slap your logo on

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it and have your gift directors
contact info.

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And we built their entire
digital strategy and really, I

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mean, created them as the in a
somewhat niche industry.

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They became the leader by far
because of the technology that

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was implemented.
And they're still going strong

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today.
But at a very young age, I got

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thrown into things like
charitable remainder trusts and

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gift annuities and things that I
had no idea what those were as

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a, you know, 25 year old kid
still trying to make a company

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out of it.
But I got very, very, you know,

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like anything, any project we
did, we dug so deep that we got,

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we really understood the
content, not just the technology

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we're building.
And so throughout my career,

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it's, it's stuck with me.
I mean, we've done auction

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platforms.
We were one of the I think we

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think we will probably hold the
record for the most successful

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crowd independently run crowd
funding campaign.

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And the only reason we'll hold
that title is because then the

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rules came out and so you can't
do what we did anymore.

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But we, you know, so we had a
lot of experiences that it all

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sort of came back to, you know,
there's an angle in philanthropy

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here and there's, there's just
something about, I think the

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base of the Internet, whether
it's, I mean, in today, it's, I

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don't care if you're talking to
AI or you're talking, you know,

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digital assets or blockchain,
it's kind of redefining

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something that's fundamental.
And when I you come back to

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philanthropy, it's about as
fundamental as it gets.

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I mean, it may be the, you know,
world's oldest profession.

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I know that's debatable, but
it's, you know.

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Although the first one's helping
people out too, but in a

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different way.
Yeah, yes.

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Very true.
Explain the gap that you

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identified.
That might be a good place.

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Well.
I, I think it's, well, I think

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there's, it's a gap, but it's
also sort of an intersection.

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I mean, I think you ended up
Fintech, believe it or not, is

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relatively new.
I mean, even though we've had

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the the Paypal's of the world
and things like that, like the

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idea of just redefining some of
these systems that don't work

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well and specifically don't work
well with sort of the modern,

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you know, whether it's the
technology or the ecosystem.

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You know, Fintech was
revolutionizing some things.

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If you look at most, I mean
philanthropy or charitable

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giving, however you want to
define it might be the only

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industry left that still does
more checks than digital

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transactions.
And that's somewhat shocking to

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me.
And it's also, I mean, if you,

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if you, and again, I'm just
given where I started in the

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things that happened in the
early part of my career.

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You think of this idea that what
of e-commerce before on Amazon.

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And it's literally everybody
competing for attention.

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Go to your own site, put in your
credit card, especially in a day

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when nobody thought you'd ever
put a credit card online and

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everybody competing against each
other one off.

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And inevitably, unless you've
got gigantic budgets, you're not

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going to win.
Well, I don't care what you're

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selling now and how much you're
selling through your website.

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If you're not on Amazon, you're
missing 80% of your sales.

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And so I see philanthropy
specifically, if you look at it

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from the nonprofit standpoint,
that's exactly where we are

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today.
Everybody is competing with

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their website, cold calls,
robocalls, mailers.

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I mean, it's, it's almost like
nothing's changed from when I

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started.
And so as we went through this

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and we saw sort of the
inefficiencies and even one of

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the big things I think that came
about was just the rise of donor

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advised fund.
You know, those became, they've

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been around since like the 60s
or 70s, but in the last 20 years

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they've grown.
Why do you?

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And and if if you look at the
growth in philanthropy as as a

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whole, it's basically can be
attributed.

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To the group I.
Think it's because it just

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became easier, you know?
And even though it's not super

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technological, the bar for
starting our private foundation

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keeps moving up because if
you're not not doing it to

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employ your family members, if
you're not doing it because you

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want that much control, if
you're doing it really for the

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purpose of generosity, why
wouldn't you use a shared model

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where you don't have to cover
the back end, you don't have to

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color due diligence, taxes,
legal, everything like that.

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So, you know, I could start a
Family Foundation, but unless

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I'm pretty sizable, it doesn't
make sense with the overhead.

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And even if it does, what we're
finding a lot of right now is

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even the people who have want
that control have significant

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well they're using donor advised
funds almost like budgets like

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here.
OK, we're going to give away.

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We, you know, by law we have to
get 5% away this year of our

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assets that are in our private
foundation.

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Well, it's still legal and I
think will be for quite a while

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to give that to a DAF and then
to send it out from there.

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So it just makes it easier
instead of going, oh, shoot, we

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for, you know, that one check
didn't get cashed.

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And so now we're under our
required distribution.

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OK, let's use Dafs as a
budgeting tool.

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And and I think it also brought
people in that could never

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afford to cover the overhead of
a private foundation, but make

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enough money that there's a tax
benefit.

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And I mean, you have to give the
United States a little, even the

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IRSA little credit there.
We have a good system that

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allows us to be self
determinate, determinant on what

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help we want to go out, You
know, and I think if we've

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learned anything over the last,
call it decade or so, you can't

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really count on the government
doing the things that you think

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are needed, no matter which side
you're on.

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You know, paying your taxes is
not a charitable act.

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So, so I think that I think all
that factors in and I think the

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trend, no.
I'm sorry, I was saying aside

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from the scaling challenges of a
foundation, what else has caused

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Daffs to become so popular?
Well.

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I I think there's also a
negative trend that I think is

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affecting this in some ways,
which is even though the dollars

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continue to go up, that's given
to charity, the number of people

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keeps going down.
And I think it's a real concern,

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not just not just for the
charities themselves, which it

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is to them.
And even, and even a lot of the

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Daffs are going our, our
customer is, you know, kind of

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phasing out it's, you know, and,
and when it goes to the next

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generation, are we going to get,
is it going to be similar?

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Is it going to be invested in
the same place in the same way?

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Is it that sort of thing?
And really we, like I said, we

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still are in an industry that's
based on a lot of paper and

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based on a lot of things that if
you don't, if we look at our

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kids, how much of you know, what
happens in philanthropy?

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Have they even ever experienced,
you know, they ever reconciled A

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checkbook?
Have they ever, you know, open a

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piece of mail?
And so, so charities are asking

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themselves what happens to us
when our when our donors age

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out.
But even the Dafts themselves

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are at a point where, you know,
they're, they're going, hey, 70%

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of our client base or our DAF
holders are not going to be

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around 20 years from now.
And the younger generation is

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just nothing's been done to
excite them about it.

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You know, they have either
gimmicky things like, you know,

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I'll round up at the pump for
Saint Jude or something like

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that.
But look at what they do all

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day.
Look at how they act, look at

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how they interact with each
other.

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I mean, if you, if you have a
teenage kid, which fortunately I

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do, I mean, if without those
devices, you would be isolated,

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you know, and that's how they do
everything.

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And so, you know, building
things that are going to

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accommodate that next
generation.

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And frankly, you've also got,
you know, next generation of

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family offices, of family
foundations that are going to do

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things differently.
So if you're sitting on your

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laurels and just going, hey,
that you know that money will

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come in forever and not making
an attempt to connect with the

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next generation and.
In this case, could be out.

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For rude awakening.
Daf share seek to mitigate that

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problem.
For example, I.

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Think there's a number of ways.
I mean, the one thing that we've

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done because there's DAF share
is actually 2 entities or two

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organizations.
There's the Fintech that runs

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the platform, runs the
technology, etcetera.

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But then because we couldn't
find any donor advised funds

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sophisticated enough to want to
work with us, we had to create

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our own.
So on the donor advised funds

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side itself, what we've really
focused on is just making it

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portable.
I mean, being able to literally

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say, Hey, I've got money in my
DAF and I can give it to

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somebody else that might be a
family member.

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There are companies now building
Daffs where they're funding

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their employees, they're
matching everything.

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That it's nothing new in the
sense that, you know, companies

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have done that for a long time,
except just like philanthropy

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itself, it's a huge HR based
paper process.

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And you know, it it, it gets, it
gets underutilized to put it

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nicely.
And so we've made it portable

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and we've also just tried to
make it fun.

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I mean, we have, there are,
there are really two groups of

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givers and, and, and I mean,
there's Shades of Grey in

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between, but there are people
who are, who have been fortunate

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enough, who have charitable
assets, who are really the

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driving force and giving.
And then on the flip side of

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that, you've got the people that
have good hearts, maybe early in

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their lives, early in their
careers, but it takes both of

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those coming together to make a
cause successful.

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And so being able to make that
interaction and bring both

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people to the table is really
what the entire platform is

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built around.
We've got some sort of sillier

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and more fun based features,
like you can play a game for

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your favorite charity, but the
core of it is really just the

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donor communities that get built
around every I.

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Think where we left off was
bringing the two platforms

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00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,240
together.
Nope, sorry.

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00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,200
Say that again.
So I think where we left off is

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00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,360
bringing the two platforms
together, OK.

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00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,440
And let me try to I I actually
did finish even after you fell

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00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,440
off.
Yeah, right.

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00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,280
And I think it was reported.
I don't.

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00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,560
It usually fixes itself, so I
can't explain what's going on

248
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:36,960
here, but let's just continue,
no?

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00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,360
Worries, OK, so let me let me
reset.

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00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,280
So OK, the the two companies
we've created, the fintech,

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00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,000
that's who runs the platform,
would create the donor advise

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00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,200
fund and there's sort of
innovations that exist within

253
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each.
The technology itself is much

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more social, much more dynamic.
There's 1.5 million donor

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communities based on a charity
or whatever the charity is.

256
00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,520
There are things like being able
to bring other people in there.

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00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:12,400
You can, you can share your DAF
with other people so you can

258
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,240
give them the rights to give the
money away.

259
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,360
You still get the tax write off.
Obviously you have companies

260
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:21,400
that are doing it and funding
basically their company DAF

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00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,760
giving some of those funds to
employees in their own Daf's,

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00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,320
matching those and then you
know, sort of building an

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00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,360
internal community.
So everything is, you know, it's

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00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,040
like I said, it's, it's, it's
innovation in that it's taking

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00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,640
technology that's already been
proven out and is a big part of

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00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,400
our lives and applied into this
industry.

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00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,680
And then on the donor advice
fund side, one of the things

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00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:48,960
that that's allowed us to do is
things like games and contests

269
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,880
and have some fun with it
because it really the donor

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00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:56,760
advise fund financial vehicle is
what's really important to us.

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00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,960
Being able to use that vehicle
to do a lot of things that you

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00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,000
couldn't if it was peer-to-peer
or it was a, you know, it was,

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00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,520
it was some other system.
And so between those two things,

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00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,960
what you've got is people who
have the assets, who can deploy

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00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,600
the assets more effectively and
in the process bring in the

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00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,560
people that you need to, you
know, create a community to

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00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,160
create a ecosystem of donors
that aren't, you know, either

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00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:26,760
dependent on one big donor or,
you know, the economy goes down

279
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,880
and all of your $30 donors are
gone.

280
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,280
So it it creates basically
sustainable donor communities

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00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,800
that benefits all people, all
parties involved.

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00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:43,760
So let's use an example like who
is your customer and once they

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00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,160
become a customer, what happens
the?

284
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,840
Customers are donors.
Period.

285
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,160
What we're trying to do is make
it easier, more effective.

286
00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,360
Everything we've got built is
built around donors.

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00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,440
If you think of privacy, which
is important to a lot of donors,

288
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,680
you can give anonymously.
You can give as an entity like a

289
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,280
company or a family office or
Family Foundation more

290
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:10,080
specifically, or you can give
completely publicly if that's

291
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,520
what you're looking for, If
you're looking for, you know,

292
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,560
hey, I'm kicking this off.
I have some name recognition,

293
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,960
you know, people are going to
not only want to join the

294
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,240
charities that I'm supporting,
but are going to want to follow

295
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:24,080
me.
And so it allows the sort of

296
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,800
family foundations to be the
influencers.

297
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,680
And, and so sorry, I've got a
reset on that one.

298
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,440
Ask the question.
No, no, I was.

299
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,080
It's the ideal customer for you.
It's the donor.

300
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,760
OK, sorry.
So the customer is the donor.

301
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,360
We we built everything we built
around the donor, whether it's

302
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,320
privacy, whether it's the
investment side, some of it

303
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:51,440
benefits the donor, but also it
has some scalability for the

304
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,360
nonprofit, like most nonprofits
today can take Bitcoin if you

305
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,760
wanted to.
And obviously there are a lot of

306
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,160
people who are wanting to lock
in some of their gains on

307
00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,119
Bitcoin and realizing, wow,
there's a huge tax obligation to

308
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:09,040
doing that.
So we have the ability to do

309
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,400
that in one place.
You can decide to keep that in

310
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,440
Bitcoin and as your charitable
assets or you can liquidate it

311
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:17,119
and do something else or you can
give it away.

312
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,560
But for most charities, that's
that's a very difficult task.

313
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,720
And same thing applies to a
lesser extent to securities,

314
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,800
etcetera.
Donors are 100% our customer.

315
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:34,000
That's what this is built for.
And if I hear a DAF, for

316
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:39,440
example, and by definition is a
donor advised fund, right, can I

317
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,160
just place it on your platform
and then enjoy the benefits of

318
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:48,200
your Fintech stack to do the
sort of things that I wouldn't

319
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,720
otherwise be able to do?
You made a great example with

320
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,160
donating Bitcoin and selling it
or not selling it.

321
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,800
So somebody with a DAF presently
is a good potential customer for

322
00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,000
you because that's a donor.
Certainly, certainly and, and

323
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:06,600
even going a level further, so
are the Dafts themselves,

324
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,840
because a lot of the, the Dafts
that are out there and again,

325
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,560
they, they have billions and
billions of dollars if you look

326
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,520
at a Fidelity or a Schwab or any
of the big ones.

327
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,680
But right now they have to
transfer the money over.

328
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,640
Eventually we'll be working
directly with those Dafts.

329
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,000
So it's just like plug in a bank
account on Amazon.

330
00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:29,960
So, so that's why again, where
we were sort of reluctantly

331
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,400
forced to create the DAF, what
happened as a result, as we

332
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,960
found some ways to innovate
within the space because it was

333
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:40,600
a necessary evil, but now it's
become even an advantage.

334
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,920
And so when someone's
considering executing a DAF to

335
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:51,920
do whatever tax planning or
charitable intent they could put

336
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,480
into Fidelity and then ask
Fidelity to use your platform or

337
00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:59,840
they could contribute to your
DAF and then enjoy the benefits.

338
00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,600
Without that, I'm not saying
Fidelity's an encumbrance, but

339
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,360
without that for example, well.
They certainly can't do the

340
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,320
social aspect or the fun aspect
of what our platform does.

341
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,240
You know, Fidelity, God bless
them, they made the industry.

342
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,480
They have billions and billions
of assets and hundreds of

343
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,520
thousands, if not millions of
DAF holders.

344
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,320
But it's about as sophisticated
as online bill pay right now.

345
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,400
You look up who you're going to
pay and you send them a check.

346
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,360
That's exactly the
sophistication that they have.

347
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:41,720
So I will say the vast majority
of our customers to put it in

348
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,400
the term you used our current
DAF holders and or private

349
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:49,160
foundations that are moving
their money from other Dafs into

350
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,920
us so they can do more with it.
So it becomes sort of a hey, I'm

351
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:56,360
maybe they don't move their
whole DAF, but they say, hey,

352
00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:58,000
here's what I'm going to give
away this year.

353
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,120
So I'm going to just, I'm just
going to move that over.

354
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:02,720
And then I'll just, I'll just
leave my investments in Fidelity

355
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:03,760
because I don't want to mess
with that.

356
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,280
You know, but more and more
we're seeing people also go,

357
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,760
hey, I'm let's skip, let's skip
the fidelity step.

358
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,680
Let's put it in this DAF because
we can put it to use.

359
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:17,600
And frankly, I mean, there's a
huge term in any family office

360
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,360
of capacity Guild building
grants.

361
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,160
And we want to build capacity.
We don't want to be on the hook

362
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,440
that if we decide to give to
someone else next year, your

363
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:27,880
organization's going to go
under.

364
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,880
And this is, I mean, this is
really the digital embodiment of

365
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,840
capacity building.
You know, if you did a matching

366
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,680
grant through our platform A,
it's only going to trigger if

367
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,320
other people give to it.
And those could be 10-50 hundred

368
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,400
thousand, you know, any size
donations, but that's going to

369
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,720
be people across the age
spectrum, across the income

370
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,640
spectrum, you know, and I think
of the other thing too, if you

371
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,480
look at the way charities
approached their donors, they

372
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,600
really focus on the biggest
donors.

373
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,960
And so, you know, that person
that might be going to your

374
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,480
college right now, that five
years from now is going to have

375
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,480
the next big start up, the next
big clothing company, whatever

376
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,720
it might be.
They've been ignored by use the

377
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,880
entire time.
But if they came in because of

378
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,320
this, the biggest thing about
our system that has proven out

379
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:29,680
is nothing breeds generosity
like seeing other people do

380
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,120
generosity.
So I see someone stepping up

381
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:35,880
wants to make a big gift.
Maybe I'm a kid in college.

382
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,760
Maybe I'm, you know, maybe I'm a
third year resident or first

383
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,600
year resident that 10 years from
now I'm going to be a

384
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,840
neurosurgeon and I'm going to
have a lot more money than time

385
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,120
and I'm going to need a tax
write off.

386
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,600
Well, they're only coming to you
when they need something and

387
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,400
it's not their fault.
I don't blame the charities

388
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,880
because that's how it works.
You prospect, you sell.

389
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,520
And do you want to put that time
into someone who's going to

390
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,680
donate 50 bucks to you?
No, this is wealth managers have

391
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,960
the same problem, but they at
least have technology options

392
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,600
that say, hey, you don't have
enough assets for us to work

393
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,520
with you.
But here, use something like

394
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,920
Betterment.
We'll keep track of it.

395
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,080
We can have a call once a year.
And then when you're, you know,

396
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,480
when your income is such that it
requires individual attention,

397
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,600
we can do that.
Well, I mean, essentially that's

398
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,920
what our platform does.
So if somebody were in Fidelity

399
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,760
or just let's pick on them for a
little while and they're super

400
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,520
happy with the investments, they
could come all over, overlay

401
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,880
your FIN, your your program on
the investments that currently

402
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:42,600
exist without having to move
assets in the current

403
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,000
investments.
Does that work?

404
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:47,400
Not yet.
I mean, there's there's also

405
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,320
there's there's so there's a
couple of pieces here, right?

406
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,360
There's one is just right now we
are the only, we, our DAF is the

407
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,560
only DAF that our platform
supports.

408
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,720
We are working with a number of
other Dafs right now to get to

409
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:01,920
that point.
We're not there yet.

410
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,600
But the other side of it, I
mean, there's a sorry for being

411
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,560
corny here, but there's a,
there's an old saying in

412
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,320
philanthropy.
Friends don't let friends give

413
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,360
cash.
And it's true because if you're

414
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,680
given cash, you already paid the
tax on it.

415
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,400
You did this, yeah, you're going
to get a little deduction, but

416
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,800
it's, it's going to pale in
comparison to if you would have

417
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,360
given that away to begin with.
So be being able to give the

418
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:30,480
stock is a lot more valuable,
especially to the donor then to,

419
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,360
to, to write a check or to, you
know, all the things that are

420
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:37,400
being done today and smart big
philanthropies that have, you

421
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,000
know, people on staff to handle
that, they do it.

422
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,840
But it's why that gap is
widening more and more is if you

423
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,440
don't have those resources and,
you know, Betty, who's a

424
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,280
volunteer on Thursdays, is the
one taking that call.

425
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,160
She has no idea what you're
talking about.

426
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,800
To be able.
To kind of just, you know, turn

427
00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:00,240
it into a financial machine of
of fintech in its pure sense is

428
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,640
key.
So in my example, forget about

429
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,400
Fidelity, I've got shares from a
company that I've exited.

430
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,440
I need the tax deduction.
The DAF is one that my advisors

431
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,960
have recommended.
I have the shares of that

432
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,960
company which have a low basis
and a high amount of margin.

433
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,160
And so I donate those to your
DAF and they sit in that form on

434
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,400
the balance sheet and that's
that.

435
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,800
You get full value for it and
you get the full write off for

436
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,880
it so that the basis actually
ends up not meaning much.

437
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,120
I'm not a tax guy, so I'm going
to tread lightly in that area,

438
00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:42,480
but that that's exactly why you
do it.

439
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,400
And, and even back to the
Bitcoin example from before,

440
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,160
there are a lot of people that
said, if it, if Bitcoin ever

441
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,640
hits, OK, I'm going to take some
out because I want to realize my

442
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,360
gains because, you know, hey, I
bought it for 20 grand 10 years

443
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,640
ago or whatever it was.
I'm going to cash in a little of

444
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,760
that.
A lot of people don't even

445
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,600
realize just by selling that
you've got a tax obligation.

446
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,400
So if you actually give those
away, you can, you can offset

447
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,920
that tax application or tax
obligation considerably.

448
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,400
And securities are no different.
I mean to the IRS, they don't

449
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,680
care which it is.
Doesn't matter.

450
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,440
Yeah, they.
Just know if you do it wrong,

451
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,840
they can they can charge you
more, yeah.

452
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,240
So let's, for the benefit of the
audience and those that might

453
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,120
want to invest in your company,
how do you make money?

454
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,480
And let's just use our current
example where somebody puts

455
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,160
shares in that haven't been
liquidated.

456
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:46,040
And so in order for you to make
money, there's got to be some

457
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,760
cash, I imagine.
So let's talk about that.

458
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,240
Well, in a lot of ways we've
sort of reversed the process

459
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,400
because if, if you took your
advisors advice and said, hey,

460
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,000
I'm just going to put this in a
DAF and it doesn't matter who it

461
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,360
is, they're they all pretty much
work the same.

462
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,120
They charge a fee on assets
under management, you know, it's

463
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,200
call it one percentage .100
basis points, whatever.

464
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:13,280
And you can find ones that do
more and less, and there are

465
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,560
some that are cheaper.
Normal fee structure, yeah.

466
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:19,040
Exactly.
So that money sits there, you

467
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,040
could leave it there in
perpetuity because unlike a

468
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:25,200
private foundation where you do
have to give a certain

469
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,400
percentage of your assets away
every year, in ADAF you don't,

470
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,720
it's a public charity.
So you could leave it there.

471
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,800
It could never go to charity and
you just keep growing then

472
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,000
that's great.
But we, one of the reasons that

473
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,760
we exist is to get people
giving.

474
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,280
So our business model is on the
other end.

475
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,560
We actually as a DAF, we are a
no fee DAF.

476
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,560
We don't, you don't charge a
penny because we would rather

477
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,320
your assets grow the most they
could not, but taking fees out

478
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,800
at that point.
And we trust our technology.

479
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,080
We trust the sort of infectious,
you know, viral nature.

480
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,440
I hate to, it's such an overused
word that I hate that word, but

481
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,000
it is engaging.
So you're actively giving more,

482
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,840
you're giving to more groups,
you're seeing other people give

483
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,640
as well.
We make money on that end.

484
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:21,480
And, and, and that even is
dependent on how involved the

485
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,360
charity is.
So if we have a charity that

486
00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:28,960
you're giving to that has never
even logged onto the platform,

487
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,680
we are still cultivating,
marketing, building things to

488
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,480
help that grow independent of
the charity itself.

489
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,480
And that money still does go to
the charity and, and in that

490
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,320
case, there's a higher fee.
If they're involved in their

491
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520
thinking, their donors and
they're giving updates on what's

492
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,240
going on, they're talking about
the current event, then they pay

493
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,200
a lower fee.
OK, so let's let's go through

494
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,880
that through line.
I donate $10 million at my

495
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,480
arguably private, illiquid
shares.

496
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,080
Then I want to donate to a
charity through my DAF.

497
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,200
I do that by borrowing against
the shares, liquidating them,

498
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:15,880
somehow socializing me, making
that donation to the charity on

499
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,040
your platform.
Others come in and see me doing

500
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,920
it.
How's that work?

501
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,680
Well, the simplest way to cover
that first part is right now in

502
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,480
order to give you more likely
will liquidate some of those

503
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,320
shares.
And so if they are illiquid

504
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,840
shares, that becomes difficult.
There are some Dafts that will

505
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,760
do that.
We right now are not it.

506
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,240
We have not added that yet.
But if they are marketable

507
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,360
securities, then you'll sell
whatever portion that you want

508
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,160
to fund.
You can, you can pledge your

509
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:48,680
donation even without doing
that.

510
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,160
You just have to eventually
liquidate and and fulfill that

511
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,480
pledge.
So once that happens, then you

512
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,200
make a gift.
The socialization happens

513
00:28:58,200 --> 00:28:59,560
anyways.
In fact, I mean, I'm, I'm

514
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,800
literally looking at my screen
that I had up before we started

515
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,800
and there's an organization that
just, I don't know who it's

516
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,800
anonymous donation, just got a
donation because somebody last

517
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,760
week played football for that
charity.

518
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,960
So the act of giving is the
promotion.

519
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,040
Now, if the charity's on top of
things and they're posting

520
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,080
information, they're thinking
they're donors, they're even

521
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,240
reposting things, then I mean,
it's just like it's, it's like

522
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,200
any of the platforms we use.
If you're on LinkedIn right now

523
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,520
and you see my post, that's a
miracle because if you log in 5

524
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:34,520
minutes from now, you're not
going to scroll far enough to

525
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:35,520
found.
Exactly.

526
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,000
The feed's going to go down,
right?

527
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:37,640
Yeah.
Exactly.

528
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,440
So for us it is.
It's about activity much more

529
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,080
than it is about, you know, the
size of the donation or kind of

530
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,480
the entire, I don't know,
infrastructure that the current

531
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,640
philanthropy or charitable
fundraising, especially world is

532
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,320
built on.
And so how would a charity, once

533
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,720
they acknowledge that this donor
executed a donation, is it like

534
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,640
the LinkedIn feed where it gets
buried?

535
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:06,160
Or can they come in and see what
happened and then socialize that

536
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,480
with their other donor base?
Well, and it's actually built

537
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:12,800
for the entire donor base
because there's, there's two

538
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:14,920
sides to it.
There's my feed, which is

539
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,320
influenced by whatever whoever
I've given to.

540
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,880
But there's also every single
charity has their own feed.

541
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,560
Just like I mentioned earlier, a
company has their own feed.

542
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,240
And it's kind of like a lot of
these things get married

543
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,080
together because right now we've
got a number of companies using

544
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,840
this where it's really just a
weekly Pro Football pick a

545
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,320
office pool and everybody's
having fun.

546
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,800
And then the winner, all of it
goes to their charity, you know,

547
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,360
and that too, is it it the
technology is, you know, I, I

548
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,840
would say a slight innovation,
but using a Daff for that's

549
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,960
unheard of.
So that the, the innovation is

550
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,400
really in making Daffs do
something that and, and, and

551
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,320
Daffs are interesting too,
because when they were first

552
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:04,640
created, they were an idea that
was to like almost get around

553
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,520
the rules.
You know, any DAF you ever sign

554
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:10,600
up for, the first thing you will
read is once you make this

555
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,040
donation, it is not yours.
And we have no obligation to do

556
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:18,520
anything you tell us.
So help me God forever and ever.

557
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,880
Now, obviously they respect
that.

558
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,840
And if you say, hey, give the
money to this group, they're

559
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,680
going to do that.
But it is, you know, that that

560
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,480
they were kind of a hack to
begin with.

561
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,480
But then since they figured that
out and they've kind of gotten

562
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,760
into the financial world,
innovation stopped.

563
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,880
And so now we're doing some
things with it where it yeah,

564
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,120
don't you can, you can give your
rights to someone else.

565
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,200
You can't give your tax write
off to someone else.

566
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:45,680
I think there'd be problems with
that.

567
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,600
But it lets you involve other
people.

568
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,000
It lets you show what you're
doing.

569
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,640
And even if you do it
anonymously on that charity's

570
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,600
page, you still see the
anonymous donation.

571
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:02,720
That's one of the problems with
anonymous donations is they go,

572
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,840
OK, we can't even say who did
it, but here you at least you

573
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,040
see the donation.
And again, because we're built

574
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,440
for the donor, it's up to them.
Yeah, so we're not in the

575
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,040
business either one of us are
giving tax advice, but let's

576
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,920
just say that's Yeah, super
cool.

577
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,360
I can't give my deduction away,
which I don't want to no, and I

578
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,880
can't direct the money where it
goes in the DAF, correct?

579
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,080
You can, you can.
I mean you both on the gift side

580
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,200
and the investment side, you are
in control.

581
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,640
OK.
But what you can't do with any

582
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,000
other DAF right now is give it
to somebody else.

583
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,240
And in your case, you can give
the rights of your donation

584
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,440
capacity to somebody, which is
super cool.

585
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,040
Is that correct?
It is.

586
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,400
It is.
Well, I sent you an invite to

587
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,320
give you some of my DAF so that
that's that's what you did.

588
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,120
Yes, you did, and I've done
absolutely nothing with it.

589
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,400
Not, and I watch football all
the time.

590
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,960
Exactly.
We'll see you next week on that

591
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,760
then.
Yeah, well, tonight can I do

592
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,400
tonight?
Monday Night Football, right?

593
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,240
Well, you can, except now you're
way behind that because you've

594
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,760
already lost all the the
Thursday games, the Sunday

595
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:19,480
games.
You're not going to win this

596
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,840
week with one win next week.
You got to get in for all.

597
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,640
Yeah.
And, and but just to break that

598
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,040
apart so it doesn't just sound
like we're silly football

599
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:31,040
people.
Yeah.

600
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,920
That's fine to.
Break that apart.

601
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,800
What we're essentially doing is
what ADAF is to begin with.

602
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,520
When you make that, when you
sign that agreement and say it's

603
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,640
not my money, I'm giving it to
you and we don't have to do what

604
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,440
you say, but we probably will.
We're doing the same thing to

605
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,440
say, hey, if we all want to play
a game and we all throw our

606
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,120
money in, then the person that
decides is just the one person

607
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,920
that want.
So we did it with March Madness.

608
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,280
We did it with that.
And, and again, when you make

609
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,680
this financial vehicle that
portable, it's a platform in and

610
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,400
of itself.
We've joked about some of the

611
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,920
and not really joked, but like,
could you do Clash of Clans and

612
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,679
go raid other villages and steal
people's death money?

613
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,920
Now, like I said, we haven't
done it, but the possibilities

614
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,159
are almost endless.
And the beauty of this is

615
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:25,120
everybody's afraid of not just
gambling because you've got the

616
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,080
gaming laws, but there's a whole
huge set of regulations around

617
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,120
charitable gambling.
This is neither.

618
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,560
This is literally just a
creative way to give money away

619
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,600
with other people.
Yeah, that's super cool.

620
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,800
Yeah, I could see where you
could take that and really

621
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,880
involve a lot of people and
raise the awareness of the

622
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,560
charity.
Well, and I think that I mean,

623
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,239
there's another side of it too,
which is just the what I would

624
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,200
almost call the marketplace or,
you know, probably better set as

625
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,160
the App Store.
I mean, you know, how many games

626
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,960
are out there that have been
built that never really figured

627
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,680
out how to monetize themselves?
Yeah, totally here.

628
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,440
OK, so.
Plug in our our back end, plug

629
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,000
in our financial engine and you
can make money off of it because

630
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,520
that fee that comes when that
money is given away is something

631
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,200
we share with the developers.
So if we're not the smartest

632
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,920
game people in the world, and
I'm sure we're not, that's OK

633
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,640
because we've built the
financial backbone for it.

634
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:29,440
And again, games are one piece
of what we do, but it's part of

635
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,120
any, I mean, think of anything
you, you belong to a church or a

636
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,320
synagogue, you go play bingo.
Why?

637
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,640
Because there are other people
there.

638
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,760
Maybe the kids come along.
You bring multi generations like

639
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:45,040
we're losing that physical
communal, you know, sense that

640
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,920
exists around just the idea of
helping others, especially if

641
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,240
you're fortunate enough to do
so.

642
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:52,760
And now we're bringing that
back.

643
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,440
But we're bringing it back in a
way that people interact today

644
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,480
and doesn't replace the face to
face.

645
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,000
It does replace the human
element, but it does enhance it

646
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,200
and it does make it a lot more
available.

647
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,240
I mean, just how often can you
give cash to somebody these

648
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,560
days?
I don't know about you, but I

649
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,080
don't ever have cash on me.
It's like, do you have Venmo?

650
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,040
I can.
Venmo, Yeah.

651
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,960
Yeah, exactly.
So I could see this and you're

652
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:25,280
probably doing it totally
replacing the office pool,

653
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,160
right, which is what you've done
with the football thing, right?

654
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,520
Yes, yes, yeah, it's and right
now we're early in, in a lot of,

655
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,640
I mean, one of the things we
have built good technology, but

656
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,520
we have not focused on just hey,
get all the eyeballs, get all

657
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,960
the users, etcetera.
We have really studied and even

658
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:48,320
obsessed about how people use
it, how they're doing it and the

659
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,760
companies that have come on
board so far every game you can

660
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,800
just go look, it's everybody in
the office.

661
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,360
It's it's their office pool.
And so it's, and it's not just

662
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,240
the office pool, but I think
it's, it's also growing into a

663
00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:06,000
perk like you, you might not
like football, fine, but you

664
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,600
still get $200 every year to
give away to your favorite

665
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,960
charity.
And we'll even match that

666
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,680
$200.00 with a gift from the
company.

667
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,880
And for the company, it's a huge
win because it's almost like

668
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,520
they're sending their people out
to do good in the community.

669
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,160
And then all of a sudden the
company comes on top and puts

670
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,320
their donation in as well.
It's one of the most effective

671
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,280
advertising you could ever do.
If you're a huge supporter of

672
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,280
the local dog shelter and you
see some company, you never

673
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,680
even, you know, realize they
gave any money away, but

674
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,640
actually see even a small gift,
you're like, wow, I will start

675
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,200
shopping there.
I still, I will, I will stop by,

676
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,520
you know, and it happens
organically because it's their

677
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,520
employees given to who they care
about and them supporting it

678
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,200
with their name and their
company name as well.

679
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,120
So you're, you're seeing this
become a perk.

680
00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,400
And it's not just that I can.
I can go to HR and fill out a

681
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,040
bunch of paperwork and you might
pay me back for the money I gave

682
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,680
to somebody.
Right, it's.

683
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,880
Real time it's active.
Yeah, we've talked about this.

684
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,880
There's buckets of money for
matching programs that goes

685
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,240
unused on the company balance
sheets, right?

686
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,360
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's
extraordinary.

687
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:19,840
My numbers are outdated, but I
mean it.

688
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,320
I said something like 64% of the
money set aside for corporate

689
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,320
giving or, you know, corporate
social responsibility of

690
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:33,680
whatever, whatever label you put
on it, I think 64% goes unused.

691
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,160
And then you've got others
there.

692
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,960
There's a, a family office that
we're working with right now

693
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:41,320
that I, I have to tip my hat to
them, but they're, they have

694
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:46,480
literally A5 match.
If you give $1000 to the charity

695
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,680
you choose, they'll give $5000
on top of it, you know, and

696
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,240
again, they deal in
philanthropy.

697
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:56,200
So that makes sense.
But to be able to automate those

698
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:01,160
things and not make them these
things to get done is half the

699
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,480
people, I mean, it's even right
now.

700
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,000
I, I don't, I don't have the
numbers on this.

701
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,840
But I can tell you at every
gala, the whether it's the

702
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:14,320
silent auction or the everybody
stand up who wants to give $1000

703
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,160
or anything like that, half of
the people in there put it on

704
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,240
their credit card even though
they have money in the debt

705
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,360
because it's just not
convenient.

706
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,960
It's not convenient, but you fix
that right?

707
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,920
Which is no no small problem to
fix.

708
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,640
Well, and what I would say is
we've built the infrastructure

709
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,640
to fix any of those from we've
fixed a number of them.

710
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,680
We've addressed the ones that
are sort of the low hanging

711
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,960
fruit.
But the underlying

712
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,560
infrastructure if I want to call
it or the vehicle, the financial

713
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,640
vehicle itself can lend itself
to any of those things.

714
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,600
And how far it goes, I don't
know.

715
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,360
Can you have a debit card that
you can use only with a

716
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,800
nonprofit and therefore right up
that table you can win the

717
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,000
signed basketball or whatever it
is?

718
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,760
Well, that that works in the
healthcare where the healthcare

719
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,640
companies give you a debit card
that only can be used for

720
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,320
certain purchases, but it's part
of the benefit program, so I

721
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,840
meant it to.
Health savings accounts, yes.

722
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,320
Yeah.
And I, and I almost see, I mean,

723
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:22,240
I see if you, if you marry those
two, the, that angle with the

724
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:26,640
corporate, you know, employee
benefits angle got the same

725
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:31,560
thing where, you know, HS as 20
years ago were kind of novel.

726
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,440
Now you've got people handing
$1,000,000 health savings gone

727
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,440
down to their heirs because
they, you know, put money in it.

728
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:40,160
They.
Needed the money.

729
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,160
Didn't didn't get sick.
We've got the same sort of thing

730
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:47,360
where you know, you keep, you
put this in the company, money

731
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:50,360
keeps getting shoveled into it.
It's invested in the market by

732
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,880
default or or whatever you want,
maybe Bitcoin or some crypto or

733
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,160
whatever it is.
You end up with a fortune you

734
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,360
didn't know you had.
Whether you utilize that or

735
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,800
whether you pass that on or
whether you break it up and

736
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,800
share it with a bunch of people
becomes pretty exciting.

737
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:11,280
So let's talk about you're
raising money now, but before we

738
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,040
talk about that, what is it that
if the people listening to this

739
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,520
felt like helping out would be
helpful to you one. 100% the

740
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:27,040
people who are I would call
influential or major donors or

741
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:31,000
people who have charitable
assets, specifically private

742
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,400
foundations right now, whether
they admit it or not, they are

743
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,080
leading the world of
philanthropy.

744
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,720
For them to get on board and to
use their influence to build

745
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:45,480
this across all the different
groups, all the different

746
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:51,080
economic levels, they could
provide so much more impact to

747
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,320
the charities that they support
if they used our platform.

748
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,400
So as much as I definitely, we
are raising money, we are, you

749
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,240
know what we are getting
investors in and it's great.

750
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:06,400
And we need that to scale.
That's not our main focus right

751
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,520
now.
Our main focus is finding some

752
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,200
philanthropy partners who aren't
satisfied with the status quo.

753
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:19,520
And, and, and I will say most
family foundations are run by

754
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,680
people that benefit from the
status quo.

755
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,400
And so they're OK writing the
checks and doing the back end,

756
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:31,400
you know, whatever they do.
And so we, we have to find

757
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:36,600
partners who see the vision and
who see, you know, philanthropy

758
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,440
just cannot continue this way
for another 20-30 years.

759
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,240
It's something's got to change.
And they can be part of the

760
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:51,560
story of what changes.
So there's a the number of

761
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:56,120
companies that actively seek to
be the backbone for foundations

762
00:42:56,120 --> 00:43:00,240
on behalf of donors.
You know, every financial

763
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,960
institution has one and then
there's foundation source.

764
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:08,560
Are there foundation source a
customer that like or do they

765
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,400
want to keep their hands around
the cookies and you're a threat

766
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,960
to them that?
Is a really good question, and

767
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,520
it's a good question.
First, good question of the

768
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:20,880
month.
No, well, it's, and maybe it

769
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:24,480
maybe even even better stated,
it's a complicated question

770
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:30,920
because you're, you're not
asking about facts or reality or

771
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,440
anything else.
What you're asking about is

772
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,120
what's people's emotional
reaction to, to change.

773
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:41,280
And so I can tell you having
spoken with a lot of companies,

774
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,320
and I'm not going to name any
because, you know, it's ongoing,

775
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,360
but I am so often surprised at
the people that I go, this is a

776
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,920
match made in heaven.
You guys do this better than we

777
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,320
ever could.
And we do something that you

778
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,480
would never attempt.
And all of a sudden they turn

779
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,520
around and say, well, you're a
threat and you're a competitor.

780
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,240
And I'm, it's just baffling to
me.

781
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:07,320
It's like we will be, but if if
we get on board with this

782
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,400
together, that's not what we
want.

783
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,120
But we see, we do see the future
here.

784
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,800
We we do realize the Internet
will be around for a little

785
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,760
while.
And if this doesn't change,

786
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,800
you're either going to just be
left out in the cold or keep

787
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,160
doing what you're doing.
Because the foundation source

788
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,200
and again, I have some exposure
to them.

789
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,840
I'm a fan, but they are a great
what they did was they lowered

790
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,760
the bar for having a private
foundation.

791
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:40,520
We can be your back end.
They're not in I mean just in in

792
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,520
broad general concepts, they're
in many ways the same as a DAF

793
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,520
except they're going to allow
you the benefit of that comes

794
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,240
with the control around a
private foundation.

795
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,880
And so that's what they are now.
I think they've even created a

796
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:01,600
DAF and ironically, I there were
I did not believe they ever

797
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,080
would because they had said no,
we're not a daft, we're the

798
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:05,680
opposite.
We're we're we're for private

799
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,240
foundation.
So, you know, there are forces

800
00:45:09,240 --> 00:45:11,880
that just continue to happen
that make people move in a

801
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,240
certain direction.
And some are going to be early

802
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:18,120
adopters, some are going to be,
you know, the end of the curve

803
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:22,880
and the late followers.
But right now having a, you

804
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,280
know, having a family office who
is more specifically, well, I

805
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:29,440
mean, a family office fits
because they're investing the

806
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,360
family foundation's assets too.
Having someone there that sees

807
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:37,560
an ability to have more impact,
to build more capacity and if

808
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,240
they desire to show the
responsibility of it.

809
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:43,720
I think the one unfortunate
thing that we suffer from right

810
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,320
now is we know this whole
everybody wants to eat the rich.

811
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:48,680
Someone else should pay for
something.

812
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:54,480
And so we, in some ways,
foundations have kind of done

813
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,840
that to themselves because they
are secretive.

814
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,200
They are, you know, they don't
have to tell who is funding

815
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,200
them.
They don't have to do those

816
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,040
things.
Here's a chance to literally get

817
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:10,120
credit for the good that you do
and change the entire idea that,

818
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,920
you know, just because you did
well doesn't mean you're

819
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,800
nefarious.
In fact, without those

820
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,720
foundations, without people with
large Dafts, 99% of the

821
00:46:21,720 --> 00:46:23,840
charities wouldn't exist.
That's true.

822
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,440
You know, and all the good that
those charities do.

823
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:32,760
So I, I know a fair amount of
Bitcoin billionaires that will

824
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,360
never sell their Bitcoin or
their Ethereum, let's just say

825
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:41,920
that and they're doing what is
an acceptable method of

826
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:49,720
hypothecating that.
And could you, could a Bitcoin

827
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:54,080
holder with low basis make the
donation, take the tax

828
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:59,880
deduction, keep it in Bitcoin or
Ethereum, hypothecate it within

829
00:46:59,880 --> 00:47:04,320
the DAF or do they lose that
control to make that happen?

830
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,560
And could they could they
suggest that you do that?

831
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:12,240
They can and and, and
essentially once they make, once

832
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:15,840
they donate the Bitcoin, then it
really it is ours.

833
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:19,720
So we would be the one to do it
and, and we're still early in

834
00:47:19,720 --> 00:47:22,560
that world right now, but all of
those things, whether it's

835
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,120
staking or all the different
things you can do with digital,

836
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,840
with crypto in general, you
know, will eventually be a part

837
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,520
of our platform.
But right now we're still in the

838
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,840
early, early stages of that.
You know, if you tried to do

839
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,800
that with Fidelity or if you
tried to do that, like to say

840
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,160
you gave it to, I don't know,
Saint Jude, they're going to

841
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:46,200
laugh at you.
Whereas we're trying to build it

842
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,040
so that this is this is for
those type of people that you

843
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,720
know, if if you did that well in
Bitcoin and you're still doing

844
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,160
that well, you learned some
technology to get there.

845
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,640
It's not that easy.
It's not like you just pulled

846
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:00,320
out a debit card and said sure.
No, it's not and.

847
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:04,480
Especially if you're talking
about staking it or, you know,

848
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,280
earning interest on it or
anything like that.

849
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,120
I mean, you're no neophyte at
that point.

850
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:10,520
That's for sure.
So.

851
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,640
So that's that's who we're
building for.

852
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,320
All right, before we wrap things
up, tell everybody about what

853
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,000
how they can invest and hurry up
about it.

854
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,520
Not you have them hurry up,
invest in you sounds.

855
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,480
Great.
So the company is DAF share.

856
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:28,080
We are going out with the Series
A, we're raising for 5.3 and

857
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,920
we're doing it in a convertible
debenture which to some might be

858
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,400
a interesting choice, but the I
think it's signals our

859
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,000
intentions.
Well, we are trying to build it

860
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,520
in a way where the investors
that do get involved have a long

861
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,600
term stake.
I think the the term is 10 years

862
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,600
and along the way the quote UN
quote interest payments are in

863
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:56,360
the form of a revenue share.
So as revenue grows, the

864
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,640
shareholders including the
debenture holders get paid out

865
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:02,880
and at the end of it they have
the option to convert their

866
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,000
principal or not and just get
the principal back.

867
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:11,640
So it offers a good return and
it also gives us a long enough

868
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:16,080
runway to really realize because
I did the the biggest thing for

869
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:23,760
us is, you know, it literally
we're looking at 2050 or 2045

870
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:27,000
when we kind of get to the end
of this generational wealth

871
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,200
transfer.
And so we want to be in the

872
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,760
perfect position to be a major
steward of, of that.

873
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:38,360
And you know, for for all people
that are doing it, because the

874
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,400
nice thing about any sort of
wealth and again, taxes, tax law

875
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,560
can change.
But anybody that's inheriting

876
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,760
anything right now knows that a
bunch of that has to go to

877
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,360
taxes.
And they're a good way to reduce

878
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,560
that is charity.
If we can position ourselves at

879
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:58,360
that, you know, between now and
then, we're going to be as

880
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,520
powerful as Amazon is in the
e-commerce world.

881
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:06,520
Yeah, Yeah.
I think that it's worth people

882
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:11,760
who are actively investing and
I'm going to say Fintech to look

883
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,920
under the hood here because
there's a number of ways that

884
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:18,200
could this could go in terms of
monetization.

885
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,440
But having a coupon along the
way is certainly more

886
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,360
interesting than just not having
a coupon.

887
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,560
Yeah.
Just having paper.

888
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,160
Exactly, this has been really
good, thank you for doing this.

889
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,920
Well this has been amazing.
Thank you.

890
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,920
Yeah.
And by the way, we have Alex and

891
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,520
his firm on Family Office
Insights, which is separate from

892
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,680
this podcast, but many of you
familiar with that so upcoming

893
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,880
this week.
So we'll keep an eye out for an

894
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,760
announcement for that as well.
So Alex, thank you for doing

895
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:49,600
this.
It was awesome it.

896
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,920
Was a pleasure, thank you so
much.

897
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,560
Yeah.
And then we'll make sure

898
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:57,960
everybody gets a chance to see
this sounds good to you next

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00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:58,640
time.
Thanks.

900
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,200
OK.
OK, recording's off.

901
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:02,720
You're awesome.