Navigating the Future of Family Offices with Anmol Goel

1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,000
Hello, everybody.
Thanks for joining today.

2
00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:04,200
Welcome to another episode of
Arthur's Round Table.

3
00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,480
Super grateful for everybody
who's listened in and those of

4
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:10,840
course, in the family office
insights community that have

5
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,000
shared it with others and pay
attention from time to time for

6
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,600
topics that interest you.
We're excited.

7
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,160
Colton, our friend Colton is
kindly referred to EMNOL to us

8
00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,360
and we're really excited to have
our conversation today.

9
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:26,560
Sure, you'll find it
interesting.

10
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,800
It's family office related and
so those of you who are in

11
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,200
family offices will, I think
appreciate what we have to chat

12
00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:36,680
with today.
So with that, thanks for being

13
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:37,160
here.
I'm no.

14
00:00:37,160 --> 00:00:39,080
My absolute pleasure.
Thank you very much for having

15
00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:40,760
me, Alpha.
You're very welcome.

16
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,400
So let's start within the origin
story.

17
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,520
The beginning is your journey,
that sort of thing, if you don't

18
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,840
mind.
Yeah, absolutely.

19
00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:53,120
So urgent story starts off in
India, was born in a small town

20
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,480
in Delhi called Jackery and
moved to the UK when I was about

21
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,920
nine years old.
You know, family was relatively

22
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,080
middle class.
And one of the things that I'd

23
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,480
sort of seen my my uncle, who
was sort of the first

24
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,840
entrepreneur in the in the
family that the close family

25
00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,320
anyways and and sort of parents
as well work super, super hard

26
00:01:11,320 --> 00:01:13,280
to to, you know, build
something.

27
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,800
But back then, you know, it was
the initial stage.

28
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:22,360
So he had moved to the US in
0607 and we had come to the UK

29
00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,560
in 2010.
And so, you know, saw that

30
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,040
initial journey of hard work and
then back of the mind, you know,

31
00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,920
one of the things that I was
always driven by like is money.

32
00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,360
I wanted to make more money,
grow company scale.

33
00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,120
So I came to the UK and started,
you know, working the odd jobs

34
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,520
of like accounting, doing just
newspaper runs.

35
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,160
You know, when I was accounting,
it was like notes for

36
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,600
accountants coming in and sort
of doing the few things back in

37
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,400
because I was really good at
maths.

38
00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,160
And then sort of did the runs
that, you know, Primark, which

39
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,760
is I think the equal of like TJ
Maxx in the US.

40
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:58,160
And then everything from like
babysitting and blah blah.

41
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,840
Until I turned 17 and built my
first company, which was a

42
00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,480
fintech companies.
Again, I say fintech to make it

43
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,360
sound a bit nicer than it was,
but essentially got introduced

44
00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,640
to cryptocurrency super, super
early and I realized I had this

45
00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:19,320
knack for understanding
mathematical equations,

46
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:24,800
footprints, trends and started
to trade it right and realized I

47
00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:26,440
was fairly good at it.
So I started, you know,

48
00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,240
extrapolating the data, creating
signals, made some money off it,

49
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:31,920
made about thirty, $40,000 off
it.

50
00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:35,120
And then I realized that I was
trying to scale it, that hedge

51
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,200
funds aren't very keen to listen
to a 17 year old giving them

52
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,640
advice.
So shut that shop up and decided

53
00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:45,680
to head to university where I
studied mathematics with

54
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,480
economics.
There I built up my second

55
00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,280
company, which was quickly
bought out at the age of 20.

56
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,160
And then there used to be a
trading competition which some

57
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:55,040
of the viewers might remember
called Amplify.

58
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:56,720
So it was ranked #2 in the
world.

59
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,640
Through that JP Morgan, you
know, came in.

60
00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:03,480
So when worked at JP for a bit,
but again, I'm that generation

61
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,360
where, you know, whilst that was
happening, it was at the midst

62
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,400
of COVID.
So this was 2020, right?

63
00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,000
Yeah.
So my experience, yeah.

64
00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,320
You know, it was very different
to to, you know, what you would

65
00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:18,360
sort of perceive as a
traditional investment banking

66
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:20,440
experience.
So I decided I wasn't having as

67
00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,640
much fun, so I'll switch to
wealth management.

68
00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,240
So I decided to join Marsh
McLennan LED a few billion

69
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,440
dollar transaction was always
the go getter, you know, in the

70
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,280
in the team.
And that time the second wave of

71
00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,160
COVID started.
So you know, me being me, I

72
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,920
said, OK, well, working a night
or five isn't hard enough.

73
00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,840
So what I'm going to do is
enroll into a Harvard Business

74
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,120
School class and and and get a
diploma.

75
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,040
So I rolled into a class for it
was called innovation in

76
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,400
entrepreneurship.
During that time ran into

77
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,000
something which might people,
which many people now know as

78
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,000
open AR.
So really sort of started

79
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,120
getting into it became the 1st
10,000 beta testers and

80
00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,720
operators and also then for
Gemini later and really sort of

81
00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,560
started to understand the space
of AI machine learning

82
00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,800
algorithms.
Sue inside Meyer and venture

83
00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,920
consulting and venture studio
platform where I started to

84
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,920
Angel invest and I would bring
in other friends and family H

85
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,880
and eyes, you know, to invest
with me and fast forwarding sort

86
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,839
of a year and a half at the age
of another time 24, I ended up

87
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:26,240
deploying about 53.8 million.
Oh, that was the time where a

88
00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:30,400
lot of people, yeah.
AI related type businesses.

89
00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:37,120
In tech enabled, I think you
know, in 2022-2023, AI was still

90
00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,640
up and coming and I think all of
them have now branded to AI, but

91
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,480
I think at that point it was
still tech companies.

92
00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,240
I think everything is AI now.
You know, dot AI was I mean, you

93
00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:48,920
know your generationis.com,
right?

94
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,520
I, I, I'm sure you know, you
remember in the late 90s,

95
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,520
everythingwas.com and everything
that was dot.

96
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,400
Comeverythingwas.com Unless you
didn't get the name secured

97
00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,080
enough, then you went to dot net
and it was kind of a big fail,

98
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760
right?
Exactly, exactly.

99
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,920
So my thing was right, a lot of
family offices were bringing me

100
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:07,960
in.
They were like, OK, he's an

101
00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,400
exited founder, you know, he's
done his studies and he's

102
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,480
operationally well in tune and
have the background knowledge

103
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,160
which led me to starting my own
fund.

104
00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,960
So ended up after deploying 53.8
million at the age of 24,

105
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,120
thought of my own VC fund.
I became the youngest ever fund

106
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,600
manager in history of Europe to
self fund A8 figure.

107
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,200
Well self set up and then had
other LP's as well 8 figure VC

108
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,520
fund.
And if I grew that and continue

109
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,720
to work with family offices and
got few other guys in, ended up

110
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,760
structuring my own multi multi
family office.

111
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,160
So now we're three families, you
know, under a consortium of

112
00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,720
another thirty families that we
work super closely with

113
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,280
deploying capital across asset
classes.

114
00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:51,400
So now we have our own
investment banking and advisory,

115
00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:54,680
we have our own VC, we sort of
have a fund of fund sleeves,

116
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:56,640
we're LP's and four different
funds.

117
00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,040
We have our own venture studio,
ended up being partnered into a

118
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,760
venture debt fund, so about $150
million fund there and carving

119
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,040
out my own private equity sleeve
now as well.

120
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,240
So investing in acquiring cash
flowing businesses and doing a

121
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,200
lot of roll ups.
So acquired a tech development

122
00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,160
company, a sales and marketing
company, as well as a tax

123
00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:17,440
advisory company.
And then we'll soon acquire a

124
00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,160
legal and insurance company as
well, a partner with the family

125
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,760
to bring in a hedge fund, which
I'm leading the overseas arm

126
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:28,440
for, as well as now expanding
into hotels and infrastructure

127
00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,160
as well.
Few of my cousins, you know, who

128
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,480
are involved in steel and tire,
I'm helping, you know, bringing

129
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:39,360
those business out from India
into GCC and European countries.

130
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,320
So you know that that sort of
53,000,000 + 10,000,000 plus a

131
00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,440
few, you know 80 million in the
last sort of 2 1/2 years has now

132
00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,280
bubbled to about 1.1 billion and
planning on taking to about 10

133
00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:53,000
billion by 20302031.
Nice.

134
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,800
Is that?
I mean, it's a lot to have done

135
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,160
in a short period of time.
Congratulations.

136
00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,800
Of the three families, are they
your family?

137
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,560
Are they other families that you
met along the way?

138
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,080
Are they folks that you brought
over from India?

139
00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:09,840
You don't have to be precise and
who they are.

140
00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,320
I'm just wondering what the
profile of the these folks are.

141
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,160
Yeah.
So 1 is my family and then

142
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,200
there's one family in Mumbai and
there's a family in California

143
00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,560
and the connecting sort of route
or, or the way we connected was

144
00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:25,760
one, we all had similar ethos
and background.

145
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,480
All of us are from the diaspora.
And then second thing was we

146
00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:32,200
were all operating in
complementary asset classes.

147
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,640
The family in Mumbai looks at,
you know, public market, right?

148
00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,560
They, they didn't do as much
private or venture or, or that

149
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,040
kind of stuff.
So you know, that was a

150
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,920
complimentary thing where they
said, look, we will back you and

151
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,720
you know, you helped expand us.
And same with the family in

152
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,680
California.
Their background was taxation

153
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,600
and real estate.
Again, we didn't have too much

154
00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,280
knowledge in that side on the
large scale commercial or you

155
00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,040
know, multi family units and
flipping them and you know,

156
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,760
being tax savvy with those kind
of stuff.

157
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,680
So it sort of ended up working
out quite nicely.

158
00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,920
And then underneath that, we're
building out this consortium

159
00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,160
because I realized, and you
know, I think you would kind of

160
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,000
agree with it, that the AUM side
of asset management is slightly

161
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,080
broken.
And what I mean by that is, you

162
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,640
know, let's say you're a billion
dollar family office, right?

163
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,640
That's your AUM.
You go to an asset manager

164
00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:21,240
today, he'll charge you 1.5%,
right?

165
00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,760
So in opportunity you're pretty
much paying him 15,000,000 a

166
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,440
year.
So if I come to you and say,

167
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,320
hey, also I have this amazing
opportunity, let's put 100

168
00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,400
million into this, right?
We're putting in 100, let's you

169
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,159
put in 100.
It's in your asset managers best

170
00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:36,960
interest to not let you invest,
right, because he's losing that

171
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,520
1.5 million in fees every single
year.

172
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,280
So we said, you know, screw
that, we don't want that.

173
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,640
We're going to work on deal by
deal basis.

174
00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:47,480
So we'll say OK Arthur, we'll
put in 100 million each.

175
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,800
We'll have a 2% fee on top of if
we have originated the deal,

176
00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,040
right?
And then we'll have a, you know,

177
00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:57,000
we'll underwrite it by a third
party or whatever and we'll OK,

178
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,480
let's say in 24 months we're
expecting a 40% return, right?

179
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,480
Anything above the 40 right we
will get an additional 50%

180
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,760
kickback.
So you know it's in our

181
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,560
incentive to make sure it over
performs and there's no AUM

182
00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:11,440
feed.
So AUA model asset under

183
00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,880
advisory.
And with that, you know, a lot

184
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,520
of families have been super
interested and more so than

185
00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,680
that, what's been super, super
insightful is bringing in the

186
00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:23,960
next generations, right?
As you, I'm sure you know,

187
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,960
multiple people came to, you
know, your podcast and have said

188
00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,480
there's a massive disparity of
Gen. ones and Gen. 2, right?

189
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,680
And what they want to invest in.
How do you get started in that?

190
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:36,160
And you know, the wrong way to
go about it is just to throw it

191
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,400
into an asset manager because
then the next generation doesn't

192
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,200
learn, right?
You carve out and sleeve and let

193
00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,640
them work with another next
generation and then build

194
00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,880
something on top where you are
actually overseeing everything.

195
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,280
That's a good way to unify
because you know, it could be

196
00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,240
that the grandparents or the
parents might have been in

197
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,000
agriculture or real estate or
steel or wherever and the kid

198
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,360
just wants to invest and web 3
and AI.

199
00:09:57,680 --> 00:09:59,960
So that's again a massive
unifying point.

200
00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:03,280
And, and those 3031 families now
we have in the consortium, you

201
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,480
know, those things are working
super, super strongly as well.

202
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:09,440
And we plan to grow that to 100
families by 20302031.

203
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:14,480
So it's really interesting to
see how the AUM businesses

204
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,200
evolved.
And I can only comment on what I

205
00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,400
see in the US.
So it's, you know, it's

206
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,800
idiosyncratic to my experiences
here.

207
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:29,280
But aside from the seemingly
obvious problem of the next

208
00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,920
generation going, wait a minute,
you have a half a billion

209
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,200
dollars with Merrill Lynch and
they're charging you 150 basis

210
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,000
points to be in public markets
and 30% of it's in ETFs.

211
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,720
I don't get it right.
And furthermore, what you said

212
00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,240
is really true.
I mean, there's the incentive

213
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,640
for your advisor who's getting
paid on the AUM to even

214
00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,240
entertain taking some of that
off their balance sheet, not

215
00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,600
their balance sheet, but their
AUM to, to deploy it in

216
00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,360
something that interests the
next generation, for example, or

217
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,320
even the matriarch or patriarch
that's interested in deploying

218
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:08,600
capital into new asset classes.
They have 0 incentive to do

219
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,440
that.
In fact, they'll make every

220
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,280
argument in the world and I'm
not trying to be disparaging.

221
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,160
It's just natural humanity,
they, they naturally want to

222
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,240
keep it that way.
And of course the argument is,

223
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,840
wait a minute, what do you want
to do?

224
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:26,600
Stay rich or get richer, right?
And so they want the argument to

225
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,640
be the preponderance of the
argument to be on this stay rich

226
00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,320
side, right?
And there's that mean there's,

227
00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,960
there's, there's a trend now in
the US, you've probably seen it

228
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:42,000
that the assets under management
business is a nice recurring

229
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:43,720
revenue.
And so there's a lot of

230
00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:48,920
acquisitions and consolidations
going on because of the

231
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,720
regulatory environment there.
It's, it's not such an easy

232
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:57,560
thing to take your AOMAUM from
as a, an investor or family

233
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:00,600
office from Goldman Sachs and
move it to Merrill Lynch or

234
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,520
whatever, right?
It's, it's a pain in the neck.

235
00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,600
And so the stickiness of that
business is appeal to a lot of

236
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,960
the private equity firms and
people who are lending money to

237
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,120
those firms to aggregate more
registered investment advisors,

238
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,880
for example.
Are you seeing that also in

239
00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,160
Europe?
Yeah, absolutely.

240
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,200
I mean, you know, it's very,
very sticky business to have

241
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:27,640
because you know how difficult
it is to liquidate it and then

242
00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,360
rebank it and then put it out
into the market.

243
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,200
Yeah, exactly.
Which is something everyone

244
00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,040
hates, right.
So and and look, you know, by no

245
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,720
means, you know, I would say
again, I will you use names.

246
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,160
I won't use any names, but you
know, I, I wouldn't say to not

247
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:44,760
do that.
I think by all means, you know,

248
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,640
67% of your portfolio, if you
haven't made the wealth or don't

249
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,200
know how to manage your property
should be with an expert.

250
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,960
And for a lot of these second,
third generations, right?

251
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,720
The reason the wealth is so
quickly dissipated is because

252
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,760
it's mismanaged and then given
to guys who have no idea, you

253
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,920
know, the origins of the wealth,
how it was derived and how to

254
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,440
manage and whatever.
So for certain cases, I think

255
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,600
there is that business where you
and that does well.

256
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,040
But I think even if you carve
out like a 20%, you know, for

257
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,840
yourself or 30% for yourself to
really engage into this next

258
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,400
stage of innovation and then
especially to to align it with

259
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,960
the next generation and what
they're thinking, right?

260
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,840
I think that could be massive.
Yeah, One of the things that we

261
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,280
found pretty consistent even
though there's been a fair

262
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,000
amount of evolution in the large
bank platforms doing multi

263
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:42,120
family office is that their
natural inclination to keep some

264
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,960
money with some of the big banks
that have multifamily offices

265
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,400
because you get access to their
balance sheet, right.

266
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,320
And so if you need to do a
collateralized loan, you know,

267
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,520
you can't do that with somebody
that doesn't have a balance

268
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,240
sheet.
So there's an added advantage to

269
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:04,080
them to have AUM and pay those
fees perhaps.

270
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,440
And that seems to be a pretty
consistent, at least in my

271
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:12,480
experience, you know, reason to
stay part of keep part of your

272
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,600
assets with one of those
companies that have a balance

273
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,560
sheet.
Yeah, yeah.

274
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,400
No, I agree.
What's going on with the, you

275
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:25,920
know, I, I, I don't want to be
snarky about it, but I get

276
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,920
amused when people say, Oh my
God, AI is going to replace half

277
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,840
the jobs, right?
And of course, I might have a

278
00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,680
different point of view than
some that would lose their jobs

279
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,320
as a result.
And so I have compassion for

280
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:40,120
that.
On the other hand, it just

281
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,080
creates so many more
opportunities.

282
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,480
What are you seeing in your
world recently?

283
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,320
For example, you've seen open
claw, right?

284
00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:52,000
That just took off.
And the the level of automating

285
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,880
things that can be counted is
ridiculous, right?

286
00:14:54,880 --> 00:15:00,280
It just just eliminates so much
not just manpower but errors,

287
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:04,160
right?
I think look, in every situation

288
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,320
like this, it presents an
opportunity to retrain yourself

289
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,720
and to become more effective and
useful, right?

290
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,440
I've seen multiple of those guys
who, you know, a big example is

291
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,000
printing press, right?
So distant cousin of mines

292
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:20,120
around a printing press company.
Now that's almost, you know,

293
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,640
that industry is dying out
massively, right?

294
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,280
But they've figured a way to be
super, super ingenuity about it.

295
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,280
Cut costs using AI and then, you
know, work with some marquee

296
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,280
operators and then again use
that to sell into very niche

297
00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,320
products.
So I think definitely AI will

298
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,960
take the jobs, but these are
very repetitive menial tasks

299
00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:43,720
which humans shouldn't have to
worry about.

300
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:47,760
I think the big difference is AI
can't replace thinking, right?

301
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,440
What you're thinking perception
strategy, AI can't do that.

302
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:54,760
AI is really good at
synthesizing information which

303
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,400
you feed into it as a system.
So if you're worried that you

304
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,000
know, currently your job is
looking at a spreadsheet and

305
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,480
then, you know, clicking down
buttons and then if X = Y

306
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,920
whatever, yes, of course it
replace you.

307
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,960
But I think you should take that
opportunity to teach yourself

308
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,680
those commands and go to the
next business and say, hey, I

309
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,760
can now do 10 projects instead
of 2.

310
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,520
So rather than my job as an
operational analyst, I'm an

311
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,040
operational project manager.
Let me oversee this with the

312
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,240
insights of exactly
understanding how to derive and

313
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,400
in, you know, if something goes
wrong, how to do it right.

314
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:34,160
And as someone who studied
mathematics at university,

315
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,240
there's a concept called the
concept of first principles,

316
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,000
which basically means you have
to derive something, you know,

317
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,680
when, when you sort of do a
cosine formula or a sine

318
00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,440
formula, you know, equals to 1,
whatever you have to as first

319
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,040
principle, show how you got
there.

320
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:50,880
We all know what it's equal,
right?

321
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,240
We, we, we know what the answer
is, but show that proof.

322
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,840
So I think you having that
technical knowledge now as a, as

323
00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,880
a analyst and then building upon
that to make yourself more

324
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:04,359
useful would be much more
valuable than it used to be

325
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:05,839
before.
And the salaries, you know that

326
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:10,040
paid 3040 grand for it will now
pay 100 grand for it because all

327
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,480
of a sudden you can be doing
work of five people, right?

328
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,960
So the five people that will be
paying 250K for, they would much

329
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,599
rather pay you 100K.
So you all of a sudden just

330
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,359
doubled your money.
So I think it will definitely

331
00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,599
replace menial labor to make
life easier.

332
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:30,520
But I don't think humans are are
are you know, if you know, they,

333
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,840
they, they, they sort of operate
correctly or anything will

334
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:36,600
happen to them.
I think AI as a technology will

335
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:42,400
net benefit given it doesn't get
politically reinstated.

336
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,680
I mean, it's again, you know, if
we go back to the Internet

337
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,840
example, I'm sure 25 years ago
the same malarkey was going on,

338
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,800
that the Internet will replace
the humans.

339
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:50,840
I mean, we're still here, all
right?

340
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,400
I mean, back then we were 6
billion and now we're 8 billion.

341
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,880
So if anything, there's just
more of us and more people

342
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,400
working.
And also another thing is this

343
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,800
also brings opportunity to
techify things which are very

344
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,080
old school, right?
When you go into agricultural

345
00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:09,120
systems, when you go into, you
know, cleaning garbage, which is

346
00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:13,600
still very hands on, very manual
labor, it's to again, build out

347
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,320
the efficiency because a lot of
those won't be replaced.

348
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,720
I mean, maybe some humanoid
robots are built 20 years down

349
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,440
to time and then they can help
out with that.

350
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,640
But again, there is that
opportunity to be that first

351
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,600
mover if you understand
exceptionally what the power of

352
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,880
AI is and leverage that.
And you know, that's what we

353
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,680
sort of try to do early doors
and pretty much everyone is

354
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,920
doing that now.
But if you can be the first

355
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,880
mover and brand yourself well, I
think you'll be you'll be well

356
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,240
set with AI.
Yeah.

357
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:44,040
I think the human element and
all this will become

358
00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,200
exponentially more valuable.
I like to use the example in our

359
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,560
real estate business where we've
been able to automate a lot of

360
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,720
the stuff that otherwise would
have had to an analyst would

361
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,080
have done or someone's
processing numbers.

362
00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:02,840
But nothing can replace our
ability that, you know, over the

363
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,520
last 15 years, we had
relationships with lenders that

364
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:12,120
are also that helped us catalyze
relationships with real valuable

365
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:17,440
people who know how to identify
properties in local markets that

366
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,040
AI is never going to be.
I mean, I'd be able to look at

367
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,800
the data, but they'll they'll
never hear about that property

368
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,200
that we know because the
syndicator is somebody that we

369
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,480
had a relationship that we lent
money to, you know, 10 years

370
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:33,840
ago.
And so that sort of interface is

371
00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,760
just non existent.
But it was really interesting

372
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,840
what happened during COVID, too,
is that a lot of people who had

373
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,640
spent a lot of time networking
and getting to know people,

374
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:45,560
building relationships were able
to leverage that.

375
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,840
Even though you couldn't be in
person, you were able to get on

376
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,840
Zoom and talk to people who you
had a relationship that said,

377
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,000
OK, I'll listen.
What's going on, right?

378
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:58,080
And so I think that sort of
personal interaction will become

379
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,960
exponentially more valuable.
We'll see.

380
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,040
But it seems to be the case.
Yeah.

381
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,320
And I think that's been, you
know, a lot of people sort of

382
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,480
asked me, especially those who
have been following me for the

383
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,400
last two to three years, you
know, what's been the secret to

384
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,560
the rise, You know, that you've
been able to scale so fast.

385
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,240
And I was like, I've always been
people first, right?

386
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:21,160
In the world of where we're
supposedly getting more and more

387
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,040
connected, actually, I feel like
we're getting more disconnected.

388
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,160
So when someone is, you know,
all the way across the ocean,

389
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,120
I'm willing to make the trip,
right?

390
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,880
My team didn't order.
Tell me last year.

391
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,680
I did 113 flights last year.
So I was pretty much on a plane

392
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:39,240
every three days, right?
But then that showed it to the

393
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,360
people that this guy's
committed, you know, he's in

394
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:43,520
every single conference.
He's speaking everywhere.

395
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,920
He's going to see those
startups, he's going to work,

396
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:47,960
you know, on those investments
that he's made.

397
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,320
He's, you know, being part and
being active with the, the, the

398
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,720
governments and the, and the
bigger players on the team as

399
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,240
well.
And if someone is on a equal

400
00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:00,040
balance or scale as compared to
me, they will go, you know what

401
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,840
I'll trust and more to do it
right because he's got that

402
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,240
personability edge, right?
Being likable.

403
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,800
The world of in the world of AI
is huge because AI doesn't have

404
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,040
a personality yet, right?
So again, taking advantage of

405
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,760
the moment whilst at lost and
building or a building upon it

406
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,120
is super, super key.
Yeah, it's really interesting.

407
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,160
I watched part of the episode of
Lex Friedman.

408
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,800
It viewing the founder of Open
Claw.

409
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,600
Besides being a fascinating
conversation, one of the things

410
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,720
that he said is he wanted to
give it a personality, so he

411
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:37,000
purposely let it reprogram
itself in the context of the

412
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,000
conversations he has with his
friends in his WhatsApp group,

413
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,280
right?
And so it actually can readjust.

414
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:46,200
And of course, it's the same
guy, that and the same

415
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,240
technology that had a social
media platform for the two AIS

416
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,200
to talk to each other.
And what's really fascinating to

417
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,480
me, I'd love to hear your, is
that when Open AI came out with

418
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:04,680
HTTP, we went from this to
exponentially utilizing this

419
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,800
technology.
I mean, it happened so fast and

420
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,040
I think it'll continue to happen
that way, but I'm not

421
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,840
prognosticating.
It just seems that way.

422
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,000
Yeah, no, I think definitely.
And now the next thing is, you

423
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,680
know, agentic agents, right?
So what GPT does, GPT is almost

424
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,280
like, imagine you're in a
library, right?

425
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,840
This is a huge library all
across you.

426
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,720
GPT will pretty much say you
will come and ask a question to

427
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,720
the librarian.
Imagine the librarian as the

428
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:35,080
interface.
GPT will be able to pick

429
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,680
information from the left side
and to the right side and give

430
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,600
it to you exactly in the way
because it has that input.

431
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,200
If it doesn't have that input,
it'll go round and round and

432
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,200
round and nothing will happen.
Now the difference is in agents

433
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,600
is agents don't just do that.
They're, they're much more

434
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,320
responsive and adaptive.
So if the agent knows that you

435
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,040
like blue books in the right
column and you like white books

436
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,960
in the left column and you like
it to be organized by A-Z, you

437
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,480
just go, hey, organize it in a
any format which is suited to

438
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:08,240
me.
And you know, once you put in

439
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,040
the command of blue, it will
automatically now know, OK,

440
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,360
well, I can put in white because
I know his track history.

441
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:16,640
He prefers this usually color
combination.

442
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:18,880
I will now sort this out in
alphabetical order.

443
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,160
If someone then asked me
repeated information, I have the

444
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,280
input of how to to take care of
like so it's it's sort of doing

445
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,960
multiple sort of steps with
that, you know, sort of logical

446
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,240
reasoning.
So that's sort of the next step.

447
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,280
And then you know, sort of
skipping a few things along.

448
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,560
I think the next big thing that
will come out the agentic AI is

449
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,400
what they called SGI.
All right, which is the little

450
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,120
bit scary, little bit sci-fi
part of it and a little bit

451
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:44,680
exciting.
And that's when there's that's

452
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,200
what they call super
intelligence.

453
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,240
The the last one, the AI has a
conscience, which is the key

454
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,280
differentiator between US and AI
right now.

455
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,400
Right now, AI can't think for
itself, right?

456
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,000
If you go back to librarian
example, it's, you know, if, if

457
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,520
you put in a prompt right now
today and tell AI, give me 10

458
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,080
new ways of making money, right?
It will again pick from

459
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,080
different books that the
librarian has in.

460
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,960
The librarian will tell you, but
it doesn't have that ability to

461
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,120
think for itself.
With SGI, since it has

462
00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:17,520
conscience, it has that way of
innovation, right?

463
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,320
You know, because innovation is
made by making mistakes, right?

464
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,520
By learning from that mistake
and having that capacity to

465
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,760
think outside of the box, which
AI isn't able to do.

466
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,600
It's perpetually meant to be
inside a box.

467
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,120
So I think that would be super,
super interesting.

468
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,240
I think we are away.
We're still far away until

469
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,120
quantum computing and the
derivation of the memory is

470
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:39,680
there.
But then we then run into a

471
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:42,440
challenge of energy, right?
The cost of compute is already

472
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,760
so high.
So the cost of computing

473
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,000
something on a quantum level
with that sort of brain frame

474
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,040
power, it's just going to be
stupidly high.

475
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,760
Like right now, you know, when
you put in a prompt into charge

476
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,880
EPT, it's the equivalent of
powering a bulb for a minute,

477
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,280
right?
So to be able to afford that, I

478
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,040
think that there's, there's some
levels of satiation that humans

479
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,800
will reach more on the hardware
side before we do on the AI

480
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,840
side, before everyone goes, hey,
we need to put a stop or we need

481
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,200
to figure something out, right?
And you know, then that's

482
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,200
heating everything up and the
water systems and you know, the

483
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,040
wider life that's being affected
around it.

484
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,000
So I think again with AI,
there's those sort of

485
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,880
opportunities that if you're
able to solve, you know, those

486
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,720
innate problems which are coming
in with AI, again, the the likes

487
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,440
of Open AI, Claude, Amazon,
Microsoft and all these bigger

488
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,000
players, they will pay you
billions, not 1,000,000

489
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,280
billions.
So yeah.

490
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,400
Yes, super interesting.
It's fascinating to see.

491
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,680
Also it's not really crypto but
I was speaking to some folks and

492
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,840
they were let's just say crypto
lol right?

493
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,080
There's a community that has,
you know, all Bitcoin, all the

494
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,480
time, crypto all the time
solution to all the problems

495
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,760
that I'm I'm purposely being a
little dramatic.

496
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,200
And they were talking about how
tokenization of funds is just

497
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,760
another basis of evidence that
crypto is the reason why they're

498
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,600
long on crypto.
And my thinking was, I'm

499
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,520
wondering what you think about
it is the reason why Blackstone

500
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,240
and State Street want to
tokenize their funds has nothing

501
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,240
to do with the real tokenization
part of, you know, selling the

502
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,080
tokens, like often is the case
with crypto.

503
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,560
It's to get rid of the, you
know, 1000 analysts that are

504
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:33,160
counting the numbers to make
sure that the funds are doing

505
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,640
what they're, that the reporting
is clear.

506
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,760
And so tokenizing it puts it on
a smart contract on the

507
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,880
blockchain and eliminates a
bunch of errors and a bunch of

508
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,360
people just analyzing stuff that
arguably humans should have

509
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:49,160
better things to do.
What's your take on that?

510
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,840
I think it's it's a little bit
more than I where so I was

511
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,320
recently at Davos, right.
So while Economic Forum just

512
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,280
happened in Davos last month,
one of the things that Larry

513
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,360
Fink said, which is pretty
interesting was he wants people

514
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:08,320
could not own anything.
He wants everyone, you know, to

515
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,000
just rent.
You know, that's where the

516
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,960
happiness is.
To be free is the concept or the

517
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,200
narrative that they asset light,
asset light.

518
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,760
But you know, literally being
human, like, right, you don't

519
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,520
own anything.
You know, there are ways like

520
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,800
you can travel, the world has
become digitalized.

521
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,080
You can go all across.
But I think that's where the

522
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,400
issue is because fractionalizing
these funds will give people

523
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,160
part ownership, but no control.
What they really fear is

524
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,360
control, right?
Because when he truly owns

525
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:38,320
something, right?
I mean, this going back to those

526
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,160
oil mine examples, right?
Back when oil was discovered.

527
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,480
And then you need to drill and
they would always be that pesky

528
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,760
house because the owner owned
it.

529
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,640
They would be like, Hey, we'll
pay you 100 grand.

530
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,880
He'd like, no, it's my house,
I'm keeping it, right?

531
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,440
And then they would have to pay
him 203 hundred 400.

532
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,240
And in some cases, you know,
the, the owner by no means would

533
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,440
move.
And you know, those sort of

534
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,160
instances, I think the, the,
the, the bigger reason the big

535
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,640
players want you to sort of do
that is because ultimately they

536
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:11,440
want a higher AUM of people not,
or having some, some ownership,

537
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,360
but no control of it, right?
And, and, and when I say own,

538
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,120
right, so your ownership is so
insignificant, right?

539
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,200
Because when you look at these
Vanguards and Black Rock and

540
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,520
Blackstone, these guys each own
between 9:00 to 12 trillion in

541
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,600
AUM, right?
When you own an ETF, even if you

542
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,120
think you're you know you're a
big player with 100 in the ETFI

543
00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,880
mean you put 100K again, you
know, you divide 100K by 10

544
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,520
trillion.
All of a sudden you realize,

545
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,800
well, that actually makes
0.00000001%.

546
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,880
So, you know, if let's say me
and you own a car, right?

547
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,400
And all of a sudden I say, OK,
well Arthur, I'll give you

548
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,840
0.000001% ownership of my car,
you will slap me.

549
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,760
Like, what are you talking
about, dude?

550
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,200
Right.
So that's what they're sort of

551
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,040
trying to do.
And I wouldn't go for that.

552
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,720
That's my approach.
I think if someone wants to live

553
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,640
that Vagabond or Berber
lifestyle, which he used to be,

554
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,240
where, you know, the world is
their oyster and they just want

555
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,560
to travel and they want to have
no ownership to nothing, great.

556
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,920
But I don't think that's the
best way to move forward.

557
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,960
I think, you know, the
blockchain as a concept does

558
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,680
definitely have it's upsides,
but I don't think this is the

559
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,040
right scenario for I think where
the upside of blockchain comes

560
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,160
in is transparency, right?
And speed of transactions.

561
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,760
So when you do a, a transaction
through blockchain, you can see

562
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,480
which wallet, what code, what
time, who owns the wallet and if

563
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,120
the wallet was ever sold,
transacted to past money moves,

564
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,760
next money moves in.
It's very clear which, you know,

565
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,160
in the current banking system
especially, you know, the stuff

566
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,160
that we have in BVI or, you
know, Switzerland or, or, or you

567
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,120
know, Bermuda or whatever, it's
very easy to to, you know, hide

568
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,360
that.
So that's one good thing.

569
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,000
Yeah.
And then second is speed of

570
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,560
transaction and the, the
minimality of the charges you'll

571
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,000
get for it.
If I want to spend, if I want to

572
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,800
send let's say one Bitcoin to
India, I can pretty much send it

573
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,360
with, you know, few cents cost.
Whereas if I'm remitting money,

574
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,320
you know, there's a, you know,
.9% or in some cases one 1.2%

575
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:16,920
cost.
It's when it starts to be larger

576
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,040
transactions.
I'm paying like thousand $2000

577
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,360
per transaction.
So that's and, and and you know,

578
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,520
it'll take two days.
In some cases it'll take five

579
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,680
days.
In some cases it needs to be

580
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,080
checked.
So it might take a week.

581
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,000
So I think those two right off
the bat are much bigger and

582
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,760
better opportunity.
But when it comes to some own

583
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,600
age and it replacing the
currency and blah, blah, I, I

584
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,040
personally don't see it yet.
Not to say I can't be wrong,

585
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,840
definitely can be in the future,
but for me right now I don't see

586
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,320
that.
It was was the being that you

587
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,120
were there, you know, the
visceral experience of it going

588
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,480
from Kloss to Fink.
Was Fink also adopting Kloss's

589
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,320
narrative since he did say
nothing?

590
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,640
Because that's what Kloss was
talking about at the beginning,

591
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,960
right?
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm sure

592
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,480
they're connected.
I think I remember watching this

593
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,880
interview of Chamat Pala, Pala
puppeteer probably buttering

594
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,480
this sign him again.
He said there's about.

595
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,280
Yeah, exactly.
So there's about 150 people who

596
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,560
rule the world, right?
It's not the US government, it's

597
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,960
not the UK government, Chinese
and whatever.

598
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,640
It's about 150 people that have
absolute control, right?

599
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:35,600
And it's likes of these guys who
have ownership of complete

600
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,080
ownership, so they can dictate,
right?

601
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,680
They can do enough to shut
governments down, right?

602
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,240
So when Trump initially came in
and and, you know, he was trying

603
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,240
to get rid of what he kept
calling the deep state, this is

604
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,880
what he was sort of trying to
do, right?

605
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,680
So I think there's definitely a
lot of similar sort of

606
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,160
ideologies that they use their
publicity and their press and

607
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,480
the control they have over media
to push that forward.

608
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:05,400
But I think if you open your
eyes and think logically, it's

609
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,560
super clear to see what they're
trying to do and and you know

610
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,880
how you can beat that system,
especially for my generation.

611
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,640
So yeah.
Yeah.

612
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,480
So let's talk about beat the
System.

613
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:24,240
You know, I think there's a fair
amount of control from these.

614
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,000
Let's just say there's 150
people.

615
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:33,120
But what's really interesting is
that you can, and it's not even

616
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,120
in the fringes.
It's like you can operate and

617
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,560
make a lot of money and do
business and at some point if

618
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,120
you get too big, then they get
their knickers in A twist.

619
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,680
But the meantime, for example,
beat the system.

620
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,560
I think what you mean is you
could still operate, especially

621
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:57,560
in your country, in my country
and and Dubai, you know, in the

622
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,360
in that area, UAE, you can still
operate, make a lot of money

623
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,360
without them interfering.
Yeah, yeah.

624
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,360
I mean, look, a lot of people
who are now sitting at that and

625
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,600
you know, for those listening,
we don't know if it's exactly

626
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,600
150 or 100 or whatever.
It's just a figurative number.

627
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,160
A lot of them work their way up
there, right.

628
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,800
You know, a few of those people,
you know, you're, I mean,

629
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,960
obviously some were born into it
and, and control that heritage.

630
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,080
But I think you can find the
right way.

631
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,200
I think you do.
Obviously, we'll have to align

632
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,680
with them and you'll have to
make sure you don't ruffle too

633
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,760
many feathers as you're coming
up.

634
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,360
Unless you are absolutely sure
you can get the masses behind

635
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,160
you, right?
The only way to go about that is

636
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,120
either through pure democratic
will where you have the masses

637
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,520
behind you.
So it doesn't matter how much

638
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,440
you have in the bank and because
the masses will lead you to, to

639
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,040
victory or it's, you know,
create an immense amount of

640
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,120
wealth and slowly, slowly,
slowly start to control assets

641
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,920
all across key strategic assets,
which eventually they will have

642
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,080
to be like, OK, well, you know,
either we bring you to the table

643
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,160
or, you know, we, we offer to
buy you out, In which case

644
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,840
again, your buyout I'm sure
would be big enough, right?

645
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,480
If it's this 910 figure buyout
and you're comfortable either

646
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,560
way, and then your next few
generations will be.

647
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,800
So I think it goes back to what
do you want?

648
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,520
You know, ultimately there's a
lot of people who earn

649
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,880
$1,000,000 a year and they're
very happy with it.

650
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,600
Nothing against that.
You know, when I hit my first

651
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,760
million, I, you know, I was
like, this is nowhere near where

652
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,920
I want to be at the end of the
day.

653
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,000
And I wanted to do a lot more
and I still do.

654
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,080
But maybe that's because I'm a
bachelor.

655
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,199
I don't have wife and kids.
I don't have that, you know,

656
00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:40,239
responsibility behind it.
Maybe a day will come where I'll

657
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:42,800
be like, actually I'm, I'm
satisfied, right?

658
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,679
Because after a certain point
you're like the, the, the amount

659
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,120
of zeros is not going to make a
difference.

660
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:52,560
So if it's not a bigger act of
change which is driving you a

661
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,719
bigger act of purpose, I don't
think it needs to be that

662
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,800
different way.
Yeah, it's I happen to know a

663
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,240
fair amount of people that have
made more money than they'd ever

664
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,800
need.
And some of them along the way

665
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:11,040
were stopping and experiencing
life and some of them weren't.

666
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,200
And some of them that finally
made enough money where they

667
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,520
felt comfortable.
Then they decided, OK, is there

668
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,600
all there is?
And then decided that they were

669
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,720
going to do something more.
Now do I say spiritual, but more

670
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:29,720
rewarding right then just
because it's, you know, at some

671
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:31,280
point, you know, money's money,
right?

672
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:35,080
Money just buys freedom, right?
So you can do whatever you want.

673
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:40,040
The the thing that's interesting
that Trump I think did have an

674
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,840
impact and it was there were
signs of it initially.

675
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,200
Is he disclosed to the general
public?

676
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,600
And most of the general public
didn't either have the time or

677
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,920
interest or would not
necessarily believe that there's

678
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:01,320
a revolving door with USAID, for
example, where the taxpayer

679
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,320
money was going in.
Hence the politicians had to

680
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,680
control the tax for the money
and it was going out.

681
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,720
And then it went back into the,
the politicians to pay for

682
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,960
their, their, their campaign.
So they get rehired.

683
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,680
I mean, this is not conspiracy.
This is all validated

684
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,920
information.
And most people didn't want to

685
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,200
either believe that or they
didn't have, you know, they're

686
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,000
busy taking Johnny to soccer and
making sure they get up and go

687
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,560
to their job every day and make
sure there's food on the table,

688
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,400
right?
So I was for a time wondering

689
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,200
why people weren't paying
attention to this.

690
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,640
And then I sort of relent and
say, you know, they have the

691
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:39,840
lives.
They're just, you know, they're

692
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,240
doing what they have to do and
they're just not paying

693
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:46,160
attention to this stuff either
because they don't have the

694
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,040
time, it's too disturbing, or
they're just not interested.

695
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,560
Yeah.
You know, it my my comment about

696
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,760
Trump isn't I actually like a
lot of things that he's doing.

697
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,520
So I'm not endeavoring to make
political statements.

698
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,080
But you know, when he revealed
the the waste that was happening

699
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,160
and the revolving door of the
money people go up, that makes

700
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,440
sense, right?
So I don't think we're ever

701
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,120
going to stop that entirety.
But we slowed it down a lot,

702
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,160
which is, I think.
Yeah, yeah.

703
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,160
No, I completely agree.
Right.

704
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,240
And another thing that you sort
of talked about like people and,

705
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,520
you know, the perception of why
they not carry, it's like

706
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:24,520
there's all these wars going on,
right?

707
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,160
And you would see, you know,
when the Russia Ukraine war

708
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,480
started, everyone was up in arms
for about a week.

709
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,720
And then now we just move on,
right, Because it's.

710
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,200
Every day we don't even hear
about it right?

711
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,560
Yeah, and I think, I think we as
humans, we value our convenience

712
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,840
and disruption to the
convenience of actually much

713
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,960
more of a bigger matter of issue
than these actual larger

714
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,440
problems, Right.
I'm sure you know, when you wake

715
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,800
up and you realize, oh, the
corner store has no milk, right?

716
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,600
And you have like no eggs for
this week.

717
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,160
And that puts you in more of a
annoyance mood than you realize.

718
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,560
OK, well, there's another war
that's kicked off or, you know,

719
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,680
your tire gets punctured and
then you're like going to have

720
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:03,080
to go out my way to sort that
out.

721
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,120
For most people, that is much
more of an inconvenience and a

722
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,160
problem to to think and look
after them.

723
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,200
These bigger geopolitical
issues, because I think it's the

724
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,160
the inconvenience issue with
what you convenience in the

725
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,280
world, right and change will
come.

726
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,800
You know, when the, the and,
and, and, you know, this was one

727
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,000
thing that I realized, you know,
when, when I was sort of going

728
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,040
from corporate to, you know,
sort of building my own company

729
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,480
and then exiting and then, you
know, doing my own thing was

730
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,520
the, the, the you, you will
change when the pain of being

731
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,520
the same is greater than the
pain of changing.

732
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:43,440
Exactly when, when, when, when
that mediocrity has bubbled over

733
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,680
so much, you can no longer be
the same.

734
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,000
That's when you will decide to
change, right.

735
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,920
But too many of us in the middle
class in these Western

736
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,440
countries, like yourself, like
myself, they're too comfortable

737
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,480
where they are at the point
where it's like a situation

738
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,360
could be better, but it could
also be worse.

739
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,360
And I'll just take it for the
time being.

740
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:03,960
Like, they'll grunt and learn.
They'll, you know, put out their

741
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,080
social media stickers and flags
or whatever.

742
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,960
But it's not bad enough that we
need to get the pitchforks out.

743
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,880
But because we've seen that
happen, right?

744
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,200
It's happening in Iran right
now.

745
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,600
Things bubble over and the pain
of being the same was too much,

746
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:17,280
right?
So now the change is coming.

747
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,840
So I think that's where, you
know, the problem for a lot of

748
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:22,920
the people is.
Yeah, and it's the fear.

749
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,920
You know, generally it'd be I'm
not making this up.

750
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,840
And there's some statistic and I
don't know exactly what it is,

751
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,480
but the preponderance of the
population is not comfortable

752
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:37,960
with change.
I'd rather things stay the same.

753
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:44,400
And I think one of the things
that accidentally and then on

754
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,640
purpose I taught my children is
to that life is a series of

755
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,440
adjustments.
So if you can build the scale

756
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,320
set of how to adjust without
freaking out and being afraid of

757
00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,480
it, then that will serve you
well.

758
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,720
And it has right.
So, but most people don't want

759
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:04,200
to change.
It's just like when you're in a

760
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,360
big corporation and some event
happens where the.

761
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,800
People who control the company
decide to merge into another

762
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,040
company.
You have to hire change agents

763
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,920
because the people who are
toiling away day-to-day doing

764
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,360
the stuff that needs to get done
are freaking out.

765
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,960
They're going, wait a minute.
That's not that's not what you

766
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,040
said we were going to do.
And they just, it's a hard, hard

767
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,680
thing for people to change
general.

768
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:31,400
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
No, I completely agree.

769
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,080
So what's on the, you know,
helped us understand how things

770
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,560
have evolved and the variety of
asset class you're getting

771
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:41,000
involved in, what's what's on
the horizon for you?

772
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:44,360
I think moving forward, and I
think it's the continuation of

773
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,040
moving towards the hard world
assets, which I sort of talked

774
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,640
about earlier on, I think AI
will continue to grow and it's

775
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:51,800
going to be a much bigger
market.

776
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:53,840
I do think the market's slightly
overheated.

777
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,880
So I think there might be a
slight correction before it goes

778
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,280
back up.
But I think we've realized now

779
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:01,560
AI is here to stay.
We're not going to replace it,

780
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:05,880
but where that we are having
issues is the power of compute

781
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,760
energy and the infrastructure
which is needed to sustain the

782
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,360
continuous growth of AI and more
and more people, right?

783
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:17,000
I mean, like, for example, my
grandmother who's, you know, you

784
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,480
can't be any further away from
tech as her, right?

785
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,640
She recently mentioned Chaji PT
and I was like, dude, how do you

786
00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:25,240
like, you know, you're like 80
years old.

787
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:28,040
What the hell Like and the fact
that even those kind of people

788
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:32,800
know about it, right, how far AI
and charge GPD has gotten.

789
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,480
But for those people to start
using.

790
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,840
And obviously right now, I think
she's still trying to grasp the

791
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,920
understanding of what the hell
is your GPT is.

792
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,000
And you know, she tries to get a
command.

793
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,640
I think the other day she was
like, hey, you know, warm up my

794
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:48,120
food or something.
Yeah, right.

795
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,360
To go explain to her that GPD
can't do that.

796
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,320
But soon it will right?
Soon it will be connected to

797
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,800
your Alexa.
Your Alexa would be connected to

798
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,160
your microwave and once you give
it command, you know your food

799
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,840
is in the like array will
automatically turn on and it'll

800
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,800
stop at the given time because
it can assess its internal

801
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,240
temperature and blah, blah.
So for it to reach that level,

802
00:42:08,240 --> 00:42:11,840
the development that is required
from an infrastructure, energy

803
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,800
and compute perspective is
massively lacking.

804
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,760
So that is an area we're
actively trying to pursue and

805
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:21,280
build on, you know, investing
into deep tech companies as well

806
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,320
as to investing into
infrastructure which is required

807
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,680
to build that out.
Second thing and a big thing on

808
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,440
our horizon as you sort of
mentioned is like consolidation,

809
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,000
right?
We in this current time is going

810
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,280
through the largest bulk
transfer has ever taken place,

811
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:41,880
right between 2018 to 2000,
between 20182032, more than 17

812
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,680
trillion in the US alone is
expected to change hands.

813
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,760
I think globally the number is
like 35 trillion or something

814
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,240
like that, right?
And 3540 trillion.

815
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,920
So here is a massive opportunity
where these boomers generation

816
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:59,120
or just the one after they've
worked 2530 years, in some cases

817
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,200
even more 40 years into these
businesses and their kids have

818
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,040
no idea right on on what the
hell dad did or granddad did.

819
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,160
And they're just inheriting
money and they have no interest

820
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,640
in taking over these cash
flowing companies.

821
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,840
And these are solid cash flowing
companies.

822
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,880
There's a huge, you know,
amounts of company between sort

823
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,160
of a level of three 4 million
all the way up to 20 million in

824
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,440
revenue.
Anything bigger than nights

825
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,640
getting sweep up completely, you
know, anything would like a

826
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,520
solid 2530% EBITDA margin.
And you know, these traditional

827
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,080
cash flowing companies, whether
they're in hospitality, cement

828
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,800
or construction, health care,
whatever might be, there's a lot

829
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,840
of these businesses and they
have no idea what to do.

830
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,520
A lot of them will just close,
pull money out and we'll figure

831
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,160
things out.
But before they do that, if

832
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,040
we're able to come in, get it on
super cheap, right?

833
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,640
And the good thing is you can
acquire a lot of companies in US

834
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,360
on SBA because the, the, the,
the is market is a capitalistic

835
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:55,760
market allows you to do that.
And these companies have filings

836
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,520
for the last 20 years, right?
So the company with a strong

837
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:00,320
crack record.
So I think again, it's a very

838
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,440
strong opportunity to come in
and techify those companies,

839
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,880
keep the management on for the
next 12 years as they hand hold

840
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,080
you to understand the principles
of how the business was run over

841
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,240
the last two decades and take
over that.

842
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:15,240
I think that's going to be a
massive opportunity for wealth

843
00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:17,080
creation.
So that's the second one.

844
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,560
And then the third one is
obviously just hedging our bets

845
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,680
on these right disruptive
companies which are coming into

846
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,920
AI, right?
We saw Amazon was a big changer.

847
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,600
You know, in in India, there
were a lot of companies like

848
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,480
Blink it and Swiggy, which were
on the delivery side as well.

849
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,640
So just picking out few two
winners into these pots and

850
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,560
coming in early enough, right
and being very hands on with

851
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,600
these founders who know what
they're doing.

852
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:45,480
So it's like these three things
we are we're sort of really

853
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,080
trying to double down over the
next five years and it would be

854
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,400
our target.
And alongside that, obviously

855
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,840
building relationships up with
the other families who want to

856
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,320
invest in tech, who want to
invest in this next generation,

857
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,040
this immersive technology that
is coming in and partnering up

858
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:01,600
with them and sort of telling
them, look, we're not in

859
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,360
competition with each other.
If we leverage your insights and

860
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,880
you leverage ours and we work
together as a collective, I much

861
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:13,520
rather, you know, get 50% of a
pie, which is 100 billion versus

862
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,920
getting 100% of a pie, which is
a billion, right?

863
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:17,920
So that's that's sort of the
approach.

864
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,680
Yeah, So super helpful.
The second thing that you

865
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,680
mentioned with the operating
companies that are below a

866
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,600
certain level where the
institutional buyers will come

867
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:31,360
in and buy them is interesting.
We have a friend that I've known

868
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,840
a long time, Brett Hickey, Star
Mountain here in New York City.

869
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,480
And he's a lower middle market a
basically lending money to these

870
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,840
companies and then helping them
acquire other similar companies

871
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,000
so they can aggregate to the
size where they then can be

872
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,680
acquired by big private equity,
right?

873
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:53,680
And so they have a growth
trajectory for these cash

874
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,680
flowing companies where the
principal may be exiting in five

875
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:01,120
or years or soon.
And so they help them grow to

876
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,080
the size where they can get
exited.

877
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:05,800
And it's the same type of
company that you're talking to

878
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,200
where no one's paying attention
to that lower middle market

879
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,880
because it's not worth the big
institutional private equity or

880
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,960
investors to look at.
Yeah.

881
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,320
But if you consolidate it, it
is, right.

882
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,840
So we've done a couple of those,
one in retail, one in

883
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,400
construction.
We're looking to do 1 now in

884
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,040
sort of the sales marketing side
and we'll do another one in

885
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:26,920
tech.
If you put it, you know,

886
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,400
individually these companies
agree, it might not be because

887
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,800
of the 10510, fifteen, $20
million company, but you put 6-7

888
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,640
of these companies together, all
of a sudden your portfolio is

889
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,760
100 million.
You add some tech, you know, get

890
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,280
some additional value, maybe 100
and 2000 and 30 million.

891
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,120
All of a sudden the KKR or
whoever, they'll come in and

892
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,480
sweep that up, right?
So, and so you know who the end

893
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,800
buyer is, You know, they buy
these kind of stuff, but they,

894
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,680
for them, the individual deals
are just too small, all right,

895
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,880
for them to waste their money.
So why don't you just get it

896
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:56,120
ready for them and sell it to
them?

897
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:57,920
That's right.
And there's multiple players,

898
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,360
you know, who understood the
game have started doing this.

899
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,080
So again, I think this
opportunity will stay for the

900
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,760
next three to four years.
So anyone listening, if you want

901
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,040
to jump onto it, you have to do
it now because in 3-4 years

902
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:09,960
they'll be gone.
Yeah, I think you're right.

903
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,560
Yeah, there's a life cycle for
some of these opportunities.

904
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,880
It's, you know, I always laughed
when I'll pick on the hedge fund

905
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,600
managers when you ask them a
question, when does this

906
00:47:20,720 --> 00:47:23,360
strategy not work?
And if they said it always

907
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:26,120
works, that I would head for the
door because it doesn't always

908
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,040
work, right?
Because things change and things

909
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,560
evolve.
What's your what's your take on

910
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,200
Bitcoin and crypto and all that
business, you know, with the

911
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,240
Mac?
Yeah, I think, you know, like I

912
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:43,040
sort of mentioned blockchain
itself as a technology.

913
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,240
The, you know, the two facets
that I really like about it is

914
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:49,560
the, the transparency and the
the calculative side, which you

915
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,000
know, keeps the transaction fast
and cost effective.

916
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:57,800
Bitcoin itself as a unit of, you
know, money I don't think is

917
00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,680
going to be it.
I don't think we're ever going

918
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,560
to be seeing large usage of
Bitcoin, you know, for

919
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,080
transaction.
Big reason being governments

920
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,240
like control.
We already sort of touched upon

921
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:11,320
that.
And no government, especially

922
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,560
large government like, you know,
the United States or China or

923
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,480
Russia or India will ever say,
yeah, we will make sure you have

924
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,960
no control, right.
So I just don't see that

925
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:22,800
happening.
And it's same with the rest of

926
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,080
the coins, all coins or whatever
you sort of want to call in,

927
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:28,160
most of them are, you know,
gearing behind a project or some

928
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,200
sort of fad.
So I don't see the applicability

929
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,440
on that side.
But when you look at the

930
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,640
technology behind the coinage
and what in the back end

931
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,600
technology was made there to
develop, I think there's some

932
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,320
very strong principal principles
and fundamentals where if and

933
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,120
when rightly used, you can do
well.

934
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,120
I think where there could be an
opportunity.

935
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,960
And again, this is a odd thing
to do and this is obviously what

936
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,640
I did when I was 17 was to trade
it.

937
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:58,320
If you can read charge momentum
good with the news, you have a

938
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,600
little bit of insider knowledge,
which is not going to get you

939
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:03,040
landed in jail.
You can you can definitely scalp

940
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:04,480
the market and make some good
money.

941
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,840
And I have seen people launching
this this crypto hedge funds,

942
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,000
right, which is sort of a quant,
you know, hedge fund where they

943
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:14,280
don't hold anything for more
than a day period.

944
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,520
So I think because the market is
so volatile, again, I think in

945
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,880
the next 5 years, we will know
which way Bitcoin will, you

946
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,480
know, either will be setting up
because again, it's a

947
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:27,760
cornerstone for this technology
or I think it'll be in the bend.

948
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,320
So again, I think you have the
next five years to, to really

949
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:35,000
sort of make money trading that
or using it's behind the scene

950
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,600
technology for purposes of
implementation outside of

951
00:49:38,600 --> 00:49:40,880
Bitcoin.
I mean there's a lot of guys you

952
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,760
know who just don't even know
why how Bitcoin was created the

953
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,520
Ledger.
And you know, when you start

954
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:48,720
reading the white paper, the
technologies behind it, they

955
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:52,360
just buy, you know, a dog coin
because I'm influencer saying it

956
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,480
and you know, they that they
believe that that gives them

957
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,560
perpetual rights.
It's not the case.

958
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:01,160
And I think more and more of
those buyers are ruining the

959
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,040
name of, of, of the concept and
the technology itself.

960
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,640
But then for someone who's
looking at it from my

961
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,880
perspective, it's, it just means
opportunity, right?

962
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:13,200
I, I, I'm off the Buffettian
view that, you know, you have to

963
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,560
be very bearish when the market
is super bullish, when there's

964
00:50:15,560 --> 00:50:18,760
blood on the street, be careful.
And then, you know, vice versa,

965
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,200
when everyone is being bearish,
careful, whatever that's, that's

966
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:22,680
your chance to scalp and make
money.

967
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,200
So that's the way I operate.
Yeah, the value investing, it's

968
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,240
interesting to see the treasury
plays with Bitcoin that are

969
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,800
taking place.
It's I mean, if you look back in

970
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,080
history, there are people who
consistently made money were the

971
00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:40,680
picks and shovels all of
finance, right?

972
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:44,840
Finance just printed money
because all they did is, is

973
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,160
figure out how to be a good
exchange.

974
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:51,760
And of course, do it largely
non-us because what we were

975
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,120
talking about earlier, the
transferring of money

976
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,440
domestically is easy.
But if you're in other parts in

977
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,480
the world, it becomes
complicated, right?

978
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,120
And expensive and time
consuming.

979
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,800
And so that's, I think a lot of
reason why the crypto stuff

980
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,280
caught on in other parts of the
world.

981
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,960
Yeah, we still have friction and
lots of intermediaries and hands

982
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,160
in the pot, but it can happen
pretty reliably here.

983
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:21,600
So look Emerald, thanks for
sharing all this with us.

984
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,080
I really appreciate it.
Yeah, no, it's been my absolute

985
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,680
pleasure.
Thank you for the very engaging

986
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,360
questions.
I think we definitely ruffled

987
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,520
some feathers by, you know,
going a little bit right and

988
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,520
then, you know, a little bit
political, but that's fine.

989
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,120
Much rather get some, you know,
spice in the mix.

990
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,040
But it was an absolute pleasure
of being here and thank you for

991
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,040
having me.
You're very welcome.

992
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:45,080
And let's do it again in a
couple months and we'll sort of

993
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:46,560
update everybody if that's OK
with you.

994
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,280
Awesome, sounds good.
Great.

995
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,760
Thanks very much and thanks
everybody for joining us today.

996
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:54,760
We'll see you next time.
Thank you.