From Entrepreneur to Investment Banker: Jason Kirby's Journey

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Hello, Welcome everybody to
another episode of Arthur's

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Roundtable.
Thanks for your regular

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participation.
Super appreciate the Family

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Office Insights community as
well as the viewership for the

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podcast coming on and listening
to us from time to time.

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So we're really grateful for
that.

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We're super happy to have Jason
Kirby here today.

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And as if after viewing this
episode and listening, there's

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others that you think would
benefit from hearing it.

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Please feel free to share.
We're always delighted to have

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you do that, if that's OK.
So Jason, give us a little

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background.
Thanks for doing this.

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Tell us about your journey a
little bit.

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Yeah, no thanks for having me on
the show.

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Easiest way to put it, I'm a
super entrepreneur.

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I've built and sold multiple
companies.

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Most notable was selling a
company to Walmart tech company

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to Walmart back in 2018 and have
since done multiple transactions

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both as a founder, operator, a
non investment banker.

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I guess the the story starts
with me starting my first

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business when I was 19, loving
the adventure of wanting to

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build something I was passionate
about.

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I quickly realized that passion
doesn't always mean mean scale.

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And I had a good business
travel, the world lifestyle

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business.
It was fun, but I want to move

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on to bigger better things and
you know, was enthralled with

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the concept of venture capital
and like how do I get into that

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world?
This is 2000 tried my first

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company, big giant flop, you
know, trying to chase venture

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capital, great business had I
not pursued venture capital, but

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try to chase venture capital and
try to create a venture

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narrative when in reality it was
never going to be venture

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backed.
You know, despite everyone

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telling us to keep at it, keep
going, you know, keep keep doing

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what you're doing, keep getting
your numbers up.

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It's like, OK, well, we're at
like 60 K month over month, you

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know, 60 KA month, you know,
month over growth, month over

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month growth is like 30%.
That would have been like a, a

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home run in most people's eyes,
you know, from like a seed stage

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startup trying to raise
$1,000,000 on a $3,000,000

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evaluation back then and
couldn't raise money for the

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life of us.
And you know, hindsight tells me

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the business model was never
venture.

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You know, we, we were like, man,
if we get to 10 million revenue,

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we crush it.
So that's not venture and you

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know, quickly learned that that
was not the right business to be

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in got an acquisition offer,
chased that down ended up

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falling through in the final
hour and like crushed my soul,

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but I wanted to make a bigger
swing, go after something bigger

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left where I was in San Diego
and moved to New York and

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launched a company called Liquid
Sky, which was a GPUH compute, a

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network that enabled low latency
interactive streaming.

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So using GPUs for actual graphic
processing, not AI at the time

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and quickly raised 12 million
for that company.

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It was in a hot space.
All the big tech companies were,

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you know, trying to solve this
problem.

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We had a head start through our
core product, about a million

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and a half users and it was just
blitzing the market as fast as

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we could.
But quickly realized that

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Amazon, Google, Microsoft were
putting in about a billion

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dollars into this category.
So we had to quickly find an off

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ramp or very, very deep venture
pockets, which we having been in

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the market and raised some
money, our investors, albeit

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they wanted us to go Unicorn or
bust, billionaire bust is like

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to say we quickly look for an
off ramp, which we had Walmart

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at the table.
We were doing, you know, kind of

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B to B contracts and proof of
concepts with Verizon, LG,

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Walmart and Walmart ended up,
you know, coming in with the,

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the final bid that we accepted
and selling to Walmart, which

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throws people off in some
capacities.

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Because like, why did Walmart
buy like a, you know, GPUH

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compute server network?
Walmart at the time and still is

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like, you know, there's a
Walmart within 10 miles of like

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95% of Americans.
And when you think about that,

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when you think about their edge
compute network, like that's

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pretty powerful.
Like if you had GPU servers like

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a RAC and every single Walmart,
what could that do?

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What could that unlock?
And this was the advent of 5G

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being rolled out in 2018-2019.
So that was all the rage,

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billions, billions of dollars
being put into 5G.

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So just right timing, right to
right place.

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Walmart promised the world they
acquired us.

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And then shortly after the
acquisition, we had scaled the

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team almost 3X.
We were burning money like

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nobody's business.
And then right before our big

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launch party, Walmart pulled the
plug because Amazon was kind of

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destroying.
Yeah, well, yeah, we we were

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supposed to build like the
Amazon Prime, like the the video

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and gaming and music streaming
competitor that Walmart was.

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Yeah, we were the platform for
Walmart to build that.

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But that was a fun project.
But in the grand scheme of

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things, Walmart is a retailer
and they were getting their ass

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kicked on their core home turf,
which is, you know, retail and

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delivery.
And they decided to reallocate

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all of their budget that we had
towards next day delivery, which

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right move for Walmart 100% just
sucked for us.

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And I was grateful for the team,
what they gave us, but taught me

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a lot in terms of going through
those types of transactions,

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raising money, selling the
company, and then without any

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holds bar, getting right back
into the mix and going to

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another startup, helping them
with a $20 million merger with

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their biggest competitor in the
HR tech space.

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And then right off that going
into a tech esports company that

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was doing like 100K in revenue
and scaled them to 6 million in

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18 months, closing in $11
million Series A in a very rapid

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period of time scaling the
company.

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We brought esports to high
schools all across the country.

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When I left we had reached about
3000 schools, 100,000 students

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cut about 6 million in revenue
before before I stepped down and

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kind.
Of during COVID right?

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Yeah, 2021 is when we closed the
right.

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We kind of closed like December
2020.

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We had all kinds of anything
that everything that could go

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wrong went wrong.
We had a Series A term sheet

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that we got on March 12th, 2020
and that got quickly pulled on

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March 14th, 2020.
You know, outside of pivot the

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business do a bunch of wild
changes to kind of navigate that

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because we were selling to
schools and schools shut down.

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Everybody.
Yeah, it's like, how do you sell

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to schools?
Quickly realized that esports

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were the only activity you could
do during COVID, and that

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message spread like wildfire.
It was not particularly easy,

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but we were able to convince
schools that this was a

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worthwhile effort and investment
during the time of remote

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learning when they had no idea
what they were doing.

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They were all scrambling hair on
fire, and kids were spiraling

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downwards as they kind of seek
engagement and peer-to-peer

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support.
And so we were able to kind of

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capture that opportunity and pin
the right message to the right

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people and just started rapidly
scaling and, you know, growing

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the business, which was really
exciting to see.

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But after doing that for about a
year and a half, wasn't my

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company.
I wasn't the founder came in as

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kind of the COO and they were
still like pretty nascent.

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And so I, after I did my part,
decided it was best for me to

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part ways and kind of took a
break.

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And it's the first time I took a
break since I was 19.

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So 15 years of just hardcore
nonstop go, go, go, go, go.

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And you know, I had a it, got
married, had a kid and just kind

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of like wanted to see what else
is out there.

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And after being involved in
multiple transactions, being an

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Angel, being an LP and a couple
of funds, and just kind of

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seeing the market from a
different landscape, and also

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having sold my company and been
in multiple transactions, I was

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just like, you know, one of the
biggest things that I missed in

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those transactions was unbiased
advice.

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Everybody had an agenda on one
side or the other trying to pull

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you this way or that way, right
A. 100%, you know, the board was

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like billion or bust.
My technically Samsung was

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supposed to buy us at superior
terms, much better terms, you

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know, about nine months a year
before Walmart acquired us.

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But our board got super greedy
against our like went over our

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head like went straight to
Samsung.

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Your board.
My board, yeah, and basically

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told Samsung like you need to
pay double or or we're out and

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we didn't want that.
We were stoked on the deal we're

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like this is a great deal we're
happy and Samsung took three

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weeks came back to us and said
sorry, we're not changing

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anything this is the deal so we
proceed but we lost three weeks

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and guess what happened in those
three weeks?

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Samsung's president or sorry,
CEO went to prison 2017.

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That was like a huge global
news.

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He went to prison and every deal
was dead on arrival.

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And so the day of closing,
bottles of champagne ordered,

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buses picked up, the team, new
offer letters printed, new

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office set up.
And we got a call from Korea

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like 2 in the morning that the
deal's dead and everything was

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dead in the company.
So that was fun.

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And because our board got
greedy, they, you know, we were

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out of cash.
We had $1,000,000 breakup fee,

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but we were burning half a
million a month.

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So that wasn't super helpful.
And a board came in and

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basically said, all right, we'll
save you and gave us like these

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horrible terms, like 3X, like
pref, you know, $4 million.

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Crash down round.
Yeah, super.

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You know, crammed down round,
like absolutely screwed the

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team.
I had to get a golden parachute

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because it was so bad.
Just in case the next

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acquisition wasn't so good.
And you know, it's it's pretty

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depressing how and like we
turned it around.

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We got a, you know, almost
similar terms from Sam's Walmart

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a year later, but with that 3X
lick pref.

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It was, you know, materially far
less capital.

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And we had this banker that was
like a more of a over glorified

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babysitter who didn't add any
value in the transaction, didn't

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bring anything to the table.
So I was just really bitter

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about this and I was really
bitter about my experiences and

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other transactions of it was
very much like you had to be in

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the club.
You had to know the people.

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And that was not my world.
You know, I grew up in a middle

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class household in like Orange
County, didn't know anyone and

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just how to build material value
to get enough attention from

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people to where they would
actually invest.

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Couldn't just like knock on my
buddy's door, my neighbor's door

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and get capital.
And so I was a little bitter

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about my experience in
transactions.

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And I was like, OK, a lot of
founders feel this way.

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How do we change the game?
And that's what ultimately led

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me after a couple years to
building what's known as Thunder

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today.
So it launched it out of AVC

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Venture Studio called Airplay
Ventures out of New York.

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And the intent was how do we be
an investment bank for founders

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by founders that basically put a
banker at your side at the

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earlier stages of the company,
not like precede seed or

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anything of that sort.
But like, you know, later stage

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companies kind of like lower
market 5 to $100 million type of

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transactions and help these
founders navigate their options.

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What's actually on the table for
them?

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What can they do?
What can they not do?

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You know, what are some of the
deals they can structure their

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company around what the comps
are Because like that exists for

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like the best, biggest companies
in the world where a banker's

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always desperate to help because
it could be in a $20 million

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fee.
Happy to offer, you know, free

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advice and things of that sort.
So we just took a different

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approach where it's like, OK,
let's the founders that are

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still in the shit, still
grinding, still like creating,

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you know, material value at the
early stage and haven't really

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been picked up on yet by these
kind of bigger firms.

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How can we better support them
and help them navigate their

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options?
And sometimes that's venture all

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the way billionaire bus.
And sometimes it's, you know,

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like I'd love to make $20
million.

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I was like, well, that's not a
venture story anymore, you know,

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what could you do?
And so we help underwrite debt,

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00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,920
equity and M&A opportunities for
companies.

227
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:02,880
Yeah, we worked with I think
probably like 40 companies at

228
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,320
this point.
Now transacted, you know, my

229
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,760
partner's in the transacted, you
know, billions at this point.

230
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,200
And what we're ultimately
looking to do is help founders

231
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,160
navigate what's the most optimal
opportunity and then bring those

232
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,560
deals to the right parties that
actually want those

233
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:20,560
transactions.
That's we're constantly building

234
00:12:20,560 --> 00:12:24,760
our network and building our,
you know, expertise in various

235
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,360
different niches and categories
to, to make sure that we're

236
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,280
identifying what's a good deal,
architecting what that good deal

237
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:32,960
would be.
Meaning that we know what the

238
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,440
founder wants and we know what
the buyer or investor wants and

239
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,680
making sure that there's going
to be a, you know, equally

240
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:44,560
beneficial relationship in that
transaction and helping connect

241
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:47,080
those two parties.
And yeah, it's been a ton of

242
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:48,920
fun.
We typically only work with tech

243
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,960
companies for the most part.
We sometimes invest in some of

244
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,800
the companies and take an equity
position.

245
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,280
Sometimes we, you know, if it's
bigger companies, we don't have

246
00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,720
the balance sheet just yet to to
write big enough checks, but

247
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,880
we'll work with those deals, but
typically in that 5 to $100

248
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:07,680
million transaction range.
So it seems to me and tell me if

249
00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:12,600
this is really contributes to
your edge, not just knowing the

250
00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,040
buyers, but onboarding the right
entrepreneurs, but also helping

251
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,160
them not make mistakes that you
made or at least aware of things

252
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,320
that they would otherwise not
know because of what you've gone

253
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:25,960
through.
Basically what it comes down to

254
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:34,840
is what is actually possible and
what do those founders want?

255
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,920
And are those in the same then
diagram, you know, is there like

256
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,280
a equilibrium there?
Does that actually exist?

257
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,200
Because like, you know, talk to
a founder like, oh, I won $100

258
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,760
million.
Like no one's going to give that

259
00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:48,240
to you.
Right.

260
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,640
Yeah.
You know, if you're not the AI

261
00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,000
breakout, everything's awesome
you're not getting your 100X

262
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,840
revenue valuation get that out
of your head. 2021 is long and

263
00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,440
gone.
So we are we're we're a good

264
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,760
reality check.
I would say most times I'm

265
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:07,200
spending time with founders, I'm
kind of helping them understand

266
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,760
the macro market.
There's a lot of false, false

267
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:13,440
data, but just misperceived
data.

268
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,520
Like they hear a story of a,
some company raised whatever

269
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,640
billion dollars or whatever
valuation and they have no idea

270
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,520
what's actually going on behind
closed doors.

271
00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:24,320
They don't know those numbers,
they don't know the growth

272
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,720
rates, they don't know anything.
All they just see is like, well,

273
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,880
I think we're better, why don't
we get higher?

274
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:30,840
Yeah, if they can do it, we
can't wait.

275
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:33,080
Yeah, it's like that's, that's
not how it works.

276
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,680
And I also, it's like,
especially if like a founder,

277
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:39,320
you know, doesn't have deep
rooted connections.

278
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,120
I got my favorite, especially
maybe for your audience is like,

279
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,360
well, we know we're not really
VC, but family offices will love

280
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:46,600
us.
And I was like.

281
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,320
Everybody thinks family offices
is default position if you can't

282
00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,040
get VC or private equity right?
I think it's either dumb money

283
00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,240
or they think it's like, you
know, like, oh.

284
00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,600
They like us.
Yeah, like, oh, they'll just

285
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,520
throw money at us.
Like, well, yeah, sure, family

286
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,880
offices are popping up
everywhere and they become a a

287
00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,720
very popularized vehicle for,
you know, individuals and

288
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,680
families to manage their wealth.
But then we also become very

289
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,320
sophisticated, like they're
hiring top talent.

290
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,880
They are creating, you know,
structures.

291
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,680
They're removing the maybe
legacy of the the third

292
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,040
generation member.
Just like, oh, I'm going to

293
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,440
invest 10 million of my friends,
you know, you know, cannabis

294
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:27,320
business or something like those
things aren't, you know, they

295
00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,000
happen, but they don't that's
not the norm.

296
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,960
And, and as the saying goes,
it's like you met one family

297
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,120
office, you met one family
office.

298
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,400
Like none of them are the same.
I've never met one family

299
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:36,960
officer.
I'm like, oh, you're just like

300
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,360
this other one.
It's definitely a misconception

301
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,120
that founders have.
And they're like, Oh yeah, just

302
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,040
maybe some individuals or, you
know, family offices would love

303
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:47,680
to write a check to us.
I'm like, and what are you

304
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:49,960
offering them?
I'm like, oh, well, we want to

305
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,600
raise 5 on 100 and we're doing
like 4 million of rabbit.

306
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,040
I'm like, they're not.
Dumb.

307
00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:58,840
They're not.
I don't know if you found this

308
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,400
to be true, but you know, we
traffic in family offices

309
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,080
that's, you know, one of our
businesses.

310
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,600
But the thing that I think
people make the mistake

311
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,360
regularly is that family
offices, unlike a fund, for

312
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,240
example, or an institutional
investor that is bringing in

313
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,440
cash every week and has to
deploy it.

314
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,040
There is no hurry.
Like they're not itching to

315
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,480
deploy their balance sheet.
They're going to take their

316
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:27,560
time.
And so and they tend to do that.

317
00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,640
And so people who think that
family offices are a quick

318
00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:32,520
check, it's just generally not
true.

319
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,120
Yeah.
And also it's just like, you

320
00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,160
know, investing in venture
directly, like a as like a

321
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,760
direct investment opportunities
like most of the family offices

322
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,640
I see doing directs, it's either
that a deep connection with that

323
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,920
particular individual or, you
know, people at the company and

324
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,600
the management team or it's
strategic like that they have a

325
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,640
family business or portfolio
company that they know the

326
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,720
industry to have an edge.
Like it's just it's just so

327
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,600
funny when I meet people and
they're just like, yeah, family

328
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,200
obviously should invest in us.
Like also it's like what

329
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,160
percentage of their allocation
is towards these types of direct

330
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,079
investments funds?
I think is a little bit more,

331
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,280
you know, reasonable to expect
family, obviously to be engaged,

332
00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,359
but again, takes years to build
those relationships.

333
00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,880
Not like someone's just going to
come and write you a check.

334
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:23,400
Like, hey, that guy's a cool
guy.

335
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:29,000
Here's $10 million.
Yeah, just doesn't happen there.

336
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,240
There are the cases where you
have a deep relationship because

337
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,720
of your history and that they're
confident because you built

338
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,680
three businesses and the check
is a lot easier.

339
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,000
But that took 10 years, right?
Yeah, but it looks for like, so

340
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,280
the person that doesn't know
that history, that sees that

341
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,000
person, oh, he raised money from
a family office.

342
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,760
Like, yeah, but you don't know
that history.

343
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,640
You don't know that they maybe
went to school together or they

344
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,000
had a, or maybe like they don't
really know each other.

345
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,120
But like a family office knows
someone that's also invested

346
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:01,680
very well and they have a high
sense of trust, is connected to

347
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,720
that deal.
And so they trust that

348
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,960
individual.
And so they're going to write

349
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,560
the check.
And so I just feel like we get

350
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,200
these companies all the time
that we say no to that, you

351
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,920
know, come to us with this kind
of, you know, pie in the sky

352
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,840
expectation that money's just
going to be thrown at them if

353
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,880
they meet them.
And the reality is just like,

354
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:23,960
like, that's not like 1.
Like if you really want that,

355
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,680
you got to make it like a insane
deal.

356
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,880
Like make them a ton of money.
Like when I structure some of my

357
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,560
own direct deals for the deals
that I'm doing, I make them

358
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:38,240
wildly favorable to investors
just because like if I don't

359
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,000
know that investor like deeply,
like a deep rooted connection

360
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,960
where I'm like delivering
consistent returns.

361
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,560
Like the only reason they're
going to take a leap of faith on

362
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,880
me or anything that I present to
them over say a deal that they

363
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,040
have a relationship with.
Like I got to have that kind of

364
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,080
risk rate, you know, kind of
risk payoff.

365
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:59,680
Like there needs to be a higher
premium paid to them to want to

366
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,200
trust me to, to do that deal.
And these founders coming out to

367
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,760
me and like, having these, like,
we want to give up 5% of the

368
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,480
company, you know, it's like
insignificant, you know, unless

369
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,640
you're the hottest thing in town
and you got term sheets being

370
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,360
thrown at you left and right.
Like you just can't command that

371
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:17,400
kind of expectation from family
offices.

372
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,520
Yeah, I think that's right.
What is your deal sourcing

373
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,120
methodology?
Meaning the companies, the

374
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,080
entrepreneurs, the candidates
that whether they qualify or

375
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,600
not.
How's how's that look?

376
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,360
So I would say the best deals
that come through US are often

377
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:34,360
our relationship with VCs like
my world is venture, you know,

378
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,080
came from the venture world and
had built deep roots.

379
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:40,960
And what we've kind of found our
sweet spot to be is like, you

380
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,960
know, like venture backed
company that is like the golden

381
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,280
child and a fun that's like
clearly hitting all their Marks

382
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,120
and they have term sheets being
thrown on them left and right.

383
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,960
Like they don't need help.
They have all the help they

384
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,400
need.
And what we found is like AVC is

385
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,400
what they ultimately need help
with is like really good

386
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,720
companies that maybe don't fit
the venture mold anymore.

387
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,680
So like.
They're still trapped in this

388
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,240
venture mindset, but they need
to be pivoted to either

389
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,440
strategic exit or private equity
type structure.

390
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,400
That's wildly different
multiples, wildly different

391
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,280
expectations.
And VCs are not really

392
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:20,640
incentivized to have those hard
conversations with those

393
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,000
founders.
And so they bring us in and

394
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,920
they're like, hey, can you talk
to this founder?

395
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,520
And we look at the opportunity
to look what they're doing.

396
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,080
And sometimes we're like, no,
this actually still has venture

397
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,520
opportunity.
You're just doing the wrong

398
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,960
thing.
Go do these three things for the

399
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:35,720
next 6 to 12 months and you're
back on track.

400
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,080
In some cases it's like, hey,
you had a good run.

401
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,520
Your, your sector was hot.
It's no longer hot.

402
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,880
You were getting 20X multiples,
you know, two years ago, three

403
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,000
years ago.
Now you're like 3X multiples.

404
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,920
Like it's just a wildly
different game.

405
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:55,280
You have to be offering a
financially viable offer to

406
00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,000
investors.
And so a lot of VCs bring us

407
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,800
into like, have those
conversations and help founders

408
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,160
transition the business to a
more accept like this is like, I

409
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,440
always say this, like strategic
exits are always the best

410
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,880
outcome in most cases from a
financial perspective, but

411
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,120
they're harder to come by.
And they only really come when

412
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,240
there's potentially going to be,
you're going to be taken off the

413
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,480
table by someone else, meaning
they have to have like, they

414
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,280
have to take action because
you're going to disappear.

415
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,360
And that only happens if there's
a lot of players at the table.

416
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,640
And really only the players that
might be at the table is like

417
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,640
private equity.
And so we always try to

418
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,760
structure all of our deals to be
capable of a private equity

419
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,560
transaction because that at
least gets 3-4 bidders at the

420
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,040
party to then hold those
strategics accountable to

421
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,720
actually taking action.
So worst case scenario, we sell

422
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,880
for maybe that lower multiple
that P thinks they have the edge

423
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,040
to, you know, increase and make
a profit.

424
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:54,120
But ideally we're going to have
multiple strategics at the table

425
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:57,240
knowing that that this deal will
happen and they will lose this

426
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:58,880
deal if they don't take action.
Yeah.

427
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,400
Do you, do you find that the
companies that the BC's asked

428
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,920
you to come and help that most
of them, they're going to end up

429
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,520
flushing because they're not
throwing any more money at them?

430
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,840
So BC's often come to us on this
conversation is because they

431
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,520
like the family, they want
something to happen and they

432
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,040
would love a return.
And that's often what we're

433
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,800
shooting for.
But it depends on how much

434
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,680
capital went into it.
What's the stage of the business

435
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,760
where they're at?
They're like wildly overfunded.

436
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,560
It's hard to clear the hurdle.
We had a really good company

437
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,320
come to us.
They raised 60 on 2/20, you

438
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,640
know, a couple years like kind
of like end of 2022, the market

439
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,600
was hot that they were in.
Now it's not hot and their their

440
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,000
competitors have fallen off a
Cliff.

441
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,880
The public comps have fallen off
a Cliff, but they're doing

442
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:44,800
great.
They're growing.

443
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,200
They're, you know, have probably
one of the best products in the

444
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,720
industry, but you know, they're
below their prep stack right now

445
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:54,400
because they raise so much money
so fast.

446
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,880
It's such a high valuation.
Yeah, that's a bummer.

447
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,640
Yeah, it sucks.
But what we identified, like

448
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,200
what?
Well, they came to the VC came

449
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:03,960
to us and they're like, can you
do anything?

450
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,920
And then we sat with them.
We looked at everything about

451
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,640
the business and what they were
trying to do that this is a kid,

452
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,520
you know, they had about
25,000,000 on the balance sheet

453
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,560
and they're about to put it all
into like this.

454
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,160
What they thought was going to
be a venture idea, basically

455
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,320
pivot the whole company and like
can spin out a new company and

456
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,160
try to like do this venture
thing that had from their

457
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:23,640
perspective better multiple and
all stuff.

458
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,280
But the problem was it was a
solution looking for a problem.

459
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,000
And they're heavily technical.
And so they were trying to build

460
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,800
us like deep tech type solution.
And what we realized is that

461
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,080
would completely mean they would
derail their existing business,

462
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:40,160
which is doing well.
They just have to do more of it

463
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,080
faster.
And So what we came to them is

464
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:43,440
like, hey, we audited
everything.

465
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,400
We looked at everything.
What we identified is this idea

466
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,440
is a horrible idea.
You will fall flat on your face.

467
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,160
You will not receive additional
capital.

468
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,280
And we call customers, we call
all these different, you know,

469
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,960
people that would potentially
use the product and they're all

470
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:57,800
just like, I wouldn't pay for
it.

471
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:00,800
Yeah, it's just like.
And and so we validated that

472
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,520
this was just not a material
business for them to pursue.

473
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,560
But what we did identify is
like, look your multiples are

474
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,760
depressed and mostly due to the
current administration in office

475
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,400
right now.
And whether they stay or don't

476
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:18,440
like the category will correct
not to what it was, but it will

477
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,360
correct you have an opportunity
to gobble up and acquire your

478
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:26,080
competitors acquire market share
at a substantial discount when

479
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:27,720
they're all depressed.
They're all.

480
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,400
Suffering yeah, they're all
suffering they cannot raise

481
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,000
money, they're all burning cash
because they're all expected to

482
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,240
burn at all cost, which is not
the game, you know, the game

483
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,960
plan anymore for that industry
and these guys actually have

484
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,280
really solid unit economics,
they just need more scale.

485
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,520
I was like, if you acquire your
competitors at what is

486
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,360
effectively, you know, less than
1X revenue, maybe like .5 X

487
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:55,080
revenue, then you're getting a
wild discount to what they, you

488
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,160
know, are.
And when the market just evens

489
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,200
out a little bit and you
consecutively show consecutive

490
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,720
growth year over year, like you
can get back to like 3-4 X

491
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,560
revenue multiples, which again,
not the 60, you know, X that you

492
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,480
had before, but like you can
have real business.

493
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,440
You clear your prep stack and
you'll be able to make return

494
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,000
capital to everyone and everyone
will make money.

495
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,320
You know, it's going to take
three more years of this

496
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:17,760
playbook.
And we had some other

497
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,760
suggestions which, you know, I
can't share, but they, you know,

498
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,720
the board loved it.
They're like, we haven't seen

499
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,320
this idea come across our table,
like let's go ahead and pursue.

500
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,480
And so 2026 is the year to go
and do all those transactions.

501
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,160
And so that's what we helped do.
We could help them go and secure

502
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,040
those transactions.
So we actually do buy side

503
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:37,640
management on that, on that
front.

504
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,400
So just being able to come into
these companies and understand

505
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,000
like where the value lies for
them to kind of clear the prep

506
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,800
stack because like, yeah, they
could have sold, they could have

507
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:47,240
if they wanted.
They were all burnt out.

508
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,600
They didn't have energy probably
would advise them to be one that

509
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,640
sells, but they were hungry.
They had they really wanted to

510
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,600
take this thing to the next
level.

511
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,200
So it's like, OK, that's an
important element of the

512
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,360
strategy that we define.
Like they were not ready to call

513
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,440
it quits.
And so it really challenges us

514
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,000
like what is possible.
And that's a ton of fun.

515
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,600
That's like, it's an amazing
exercise to go through and help

516
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,560
these founders unlock things
that they're not really allowed

517
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,760
to think about.
Sometimes, you know, it's like

518
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,640
they're they're not allowed to
think about the safe, you know,

519
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,080
like the PE playbook of M and a
roll up like they're supposed to

520
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,120
be like technology, you know,
grow at all costs, you know,

521
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:24,720
spend, spend, spend.
It's like, no, like the good

522
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,760
business economics is not a bad
thing.

523
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,480
Yeah, especially when you're
multiple has been falling off a

524
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,040
Cliff and it's nothing against
you.

525
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,200
And wouldn't it be true also
that if they aggregated the

526
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:42,160
businesses and did what sounds
like a roll up at discounted

527
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,000
valuations, that now they're of
the size that an exit like a PE

528
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,200
exit would be plausible?
Yeah, that's exactly it.

529
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,520
And so worst case scenario, they
sell the PE where they are.

530
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,840
Best case scenario they sell
them the kind of the number one

531
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,920
player in the market that will
hopefully recover.

532
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,640
That's been kind of one of the,
you know, things that we taking

533
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,960
a gamble on is like they, they
seem to have the economics

534
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,240
figured out now, but they're
still not appreciated.

535
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,160
So we're hoping that the markets
will appreciate the number one

536
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,680
player right now and acquire our
client in like 3 to 4 years for

537
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,520
a premium.
So are you finding these

538
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,840
companies largely in?
Usus, so we have offices in

539
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,080
London and New York.
We predominantly have US clients

540
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,440
but about 30% of our businesses
UK.

541
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,240
Can you talk about what's
happening there in the UK and

542
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,440
the EU in terms of business
sentiment?

543
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,200
That's a That's a deep rabbit
hole, man.

544
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,040
Yeah.
That is, I have some I have some

545
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,920
opinions on the UK like look,
coming from the US, I'm biased

546
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,360
because you know, under the
free, you know, as much as

547
00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:51,720
people complain about the US and
you're like, go live in another

548
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,400
country and then come.
Back, yeah, try that for a

549
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,600
minute.
Like, well, you don't you don't

550
00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,720
know how much is true that we
hear, but especially the UK

551
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,520
based on what we've heard.
I mean, they definitely are not

552
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:12,320
the land of the free right,
which is, you know, to to just a

553
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,440
pine on, you know, why we left
at the very beginning 250 years

554
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,600
ago, right, same sort of thing.
But what?

555
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,280
What?
Go ahead.

556
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,480
My my take right now is like I
have to come back to the USI

557
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,200
live in London now.
I love the quality of life, like

558
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,800
from a family, lifestyle
perspective, my young kids, it's

559
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,920
great.
The walkability is great yeah,

560
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:42,800
foods great a lot of good
things, but the tax and the the

561
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,920
business into like I, I run the
the post exit of founder

562
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,120
community here in London.
There's like 304 hundred of us.

563
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,840
I host dinners every month.
It's like such an amazing

564
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,760
community and they're dropping
like flies.

565
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,640
They're there's so much, there's
so many people vacating the UK,

566
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:07,120
Dubai, Spain, Portugal, Milan,
US, like everyone's leaving

567
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,520
because it's just the way the
government's acting here.

568
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,240
And I'm, you know, I'm a, I'm
basically a bystander.

569
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,320
I'm just like an observer, you
know, being here.

570
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,080
I don't vote or, you know, do
anything, but just talking to my

571
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:24,400
tax account in here, I'm like,
wow, it would be wildly cost

572
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,680
prohibitive to stay, you know,
at the non Dom period.

573
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,720
And the they're eliminating a
lot of like entrepreneur

574
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,800
benefits.
I just, it's just so not like,

575
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,480
granted, is it better than
Europe?

576
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,520
Yeah.
And so there are still a ton of

577
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:42,360
Europeans migrating to the UK to
build because the US is so much

578
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,240
more difficult to get into.
Initially, no, not make it easy,

579
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,280
but basically a pause on
everything, more or less, yeah.

580
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,160
So like my my take is there's
some good talent here and it's

581
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,240
far cheaper than the US as far
as like good talent so that

582
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,680
there's some advantages of
having an office here or being

583
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,920
here.
The business is and will

584
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,920
continue to conduct in the UK.
It's not like all doom and

585
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,040
gloom, but like some amazing
people who have the means are

586
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,000
leaving.
And it's because the taxes is

587
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,920
because of just the
prioritization of public service

588
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,760
to at the expense of the wealth
creators and the value creators

589
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,520
in which there's a degree.
But when you look at just for,

590
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,120
for me being an American and
having to pay American taxes and

591
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,320
US like UK taxes, what kills me
is like I have US real estate

592
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,080
for all the obvious reasons of
depreciation and tax benefits

593
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,760
and all that kind of stuff.
UK will basically just pass that

594
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,240
has to pass through the UK after
four years of living here.

595
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,080
And they just tax on revenue.
Like there's no writing off

596
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,080
depreciation.
There's no writing off of

597
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,080
expenses like it's.
There's no.

598
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,680
Yeah, you made a couple 100
grand on this property, Like,

599
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,320
OK, we're going to tax you at
the couple 100 grand.

600
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,480
I was like, well, no, my, my net
operating income's here and

601
00:30:58,480 --> 00:30:59,720
they're like, no, that doesn't
count like.

602
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,440
What absolutely makes absolutely
no sense.

603
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:05,920
Yeah.
So like, real estate is a

604
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,000
disaster in my opinion.
And like I thought when I moved

605
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,600
here, I was like, oh, I want to
own a place in London, shopped

606
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,680
around, looked at all this and I
was like, wait a second, it is

607
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,120
exponentially cheaper to rent
here and all the rights are in

608
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:22,200
my favor.
I could sign a lease and break

609
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,160
it and walk away.
Like this is like, this is

610
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:27,760
awful.
I want to own a property here.

611
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,240
Yeah, we have one of our family
offices who's also a huge real

612
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,680
estate developer in rental
properties and they just dumped

613
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,960
$400 million in the London
suburbs building rental

614
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,880
apartments because that's that's
the way to go, right?

615
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,960
No one's buying it.
Investment totally.

616
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,400
Yeah.
Single family home.

617
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,000
Not a good idea.
Yeah, like because the buying of

618
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:53,920
the house, like my house I live
in right now is probably like

619
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,360
2-2 and a half million if I were
to buy and, or probably 2.

620
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,920
I'm getting it for like 5 grand
or £5000 a month.

621
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,520
Like just as if you're not
familiar with the, we're going

622
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,560
way down a tangent, holy bear.
So I'm very upset about the

623
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,280
system here.
So I have a stamp duty tax here,

624
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,120
meaning like rather than paying
property tax over extended

625
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,600
period of time, you pay like 6
to 10% upfront of the purchase

626
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:23,640
price that is non recoupable.
So call it a $2,000,000 house,

627
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,480
you're paying 200K upfront and
then you're having to put it as

628
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,520
a foreigner.
I had to put at least like 3540%

629
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,200
down.
So I'm like all this cash in to

630
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,680
which is a flat market, meaning
there's not really any

631
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,640
appreciation.
I have to renew my mortgage

632
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,400
every two to five years because
they're all Arms.

633
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:42,960
There's no like 30 year fixed.
It's all Arms.

634
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,520
And then like my rent for two
years, I only really plan to be

635
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,600
here like 2 years and I could
probably go back in the summer.

636
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,880
I paid less in rent in two years
than I would just pay in the

637
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:57,120
stamp duty tax.
Like a transfer tax that you and

638
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,760
you probably can't, I don't
know, you're AUS taxpayer, so

639
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,800
maybe you can deduct it.
But that's a big number, yeah.

640
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:03,760
It's just.
It's.

641
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,240
Yeah, it's just dumb.
Yeah.

642
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,560
This is like, why would I do
that?

643
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,160
Again, I have the optionality to
go back to the US, so I have a

644
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,480
flexibility of choice.
But yeah, it's definitely

645
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,840
discouraging.
And also like, the incomes here

646
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,000
wildly lower than the US.
Like, I could pay someone here,

647
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,040
you know, maybe call it 80,000
pounds, 100,000 lbs.

648
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,960
But in the US, I'd probably pay
like 180 for that person.

649
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,360
And like, good for talent
arbitrage as a owner of a

650
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,120
company, but for like employees
like how?

651
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,760
How do you survive in London?
You don't want people suffering,

652
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,880
they can't pay attention to
their work, right?

653
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,960
Yeah, so there's a lot I can
complain about UK tax law here,

654
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,440
but I digress.
And I'm no expert, but I just

655
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,080
from what I've learned and what
I've heard, I definitely want to

656
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:53,680
go back to the US.
Yeah, well, it's important to

657
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,920
hear from people that are living
it, which is more credible than

658
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,520
just reading the fake news,
right?

659
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:07,360
So how how does are most of the
VCs Silicon Valley type VCs that

660
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,960
you've made relationships with
or are there other places?

661
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,840
All over, so UK based,
london-based, New York based.

662
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,639
I would say my strongest
connections are in New York.

663
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:18,320
So that's where I was before
Israel.

664
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,760
Not a really good talent in
Israel.

665
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,400
Yeah.
So it's, it's, it's global like

666
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,560
a couple of really good firms in
the you know, Austin actually

667
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,199
I'd tell you probably like the
Silicon Valley ones less.

668
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,199
So there's a handful that I'm
pretty close to, but they're

669
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:35,080
more of the smaller funds.
You know, I would say they, the

670
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:39,040
silicon mindset is Silicon
Valley mindset is like it's

671
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,000
billion or best all the way.
They just don't really care

672
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,280
otherwise for the most part.
So that's not really our ethos.

673
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,159
So we don't really drive too
much opportunity from there,

674
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:55,719
like New York and Austin,
Seattle, London, Germany,

675
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,080
Israel, Like yeah, those are
kind of the markets that we, you

676
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:02,160
know, probably pull in the
strongest relationships.

677
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,440
Do you feel like there's if you
had more capacity, you could

678
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,880
service more companies or are
you kind of comfortable where it

679
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,000
is right now because it's a lot
of work?

680
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:12,920
Sounds like it's a lot of.
Work.

681
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,560
Yeah.
So the beauty of our model and

682
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,640
what makes U.S. special is we
operate as a partner model.

683
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:25,280
So I recruit like exited
founders or very successful

684
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,880
bankers that hate the banker
ecosystem and culture.

685
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,480
So we're we're five partners,
four of us are exited founders.

686
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,480
One of them is like an ex banker
from Goldman.

687
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,520
And what makes us kind of
special is we have this model

688
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,640
that is very flexible for these
high talent kind of people that

689
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,520
are already made it.
They don't need a job.

690
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,280
They want to be in the game, but
they don't want to be in it

691
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,280
alone.
And so we have such a large top

692
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,240
of funnel across multi version
sectors and divisions.

693
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,240
We ultimately help them get
access to really interesting

694
00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,120
companies, really interesting
founders that they have material

695
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,200
value to offer them.
And so we provide them the

696
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,240
infrastructure to go support
them and help them in the

697
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:05,680
transaction.
So everything that we do,

698
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,320
everything I've mentioned, my
team is capable of, my partners

699
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,240
are capable of.
Most of the deals I mentioned

700
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:16,760
were my my partner's deals.
And so I'm able to kind of

701
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:22,360
provide this experience for
these high caliber individuals

702
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,200
to be able to leverage the best
parts of them and like the fun

703
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,720
parts of like building deep
relationships, focusing on

704
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:35,200
strategy, you know, teeing up
opportunities to their network.

705
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:36,720
And they're focused on those
aspects.

706
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,600
What we have a full delivery
team underneath them that's

707
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,720
doing decks, modeling
collateral, you know, all that

708
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:47,360
kind of the the work that must
be done to have the confidence

709
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,880
in the strategy.
And that's kind of pretty

710
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,160
crucial to ecosystem that we
build.

711
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,600
And we're always actively
recruiting for amazing partners.

712
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,080
Is.
Have you found that the grunt

713
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,320
work that would normally be done
by an analyst can now be done

714
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:05,000
90% by AI?
Seems like a lot of people

715
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,920
experiencing that, right?
Yeah, it's 70%.

716
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,080
That's kind of an eculation.
So we have a team of analysts

717
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:18,640
and very talented like from 5 to
15 years of experience and I

718
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,760
push out I we do a quarterly AI
day.

719
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,800
Like what are you going to make
faster, better, cheaper with AI?

720
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,400
That's like a cultural thing we
have in the company.

721
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,560
And sometimes we built our own
AI stack with like helping

722
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,160
identify relevant investors.
So we have like 10,000 firms

723
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,440
that we're constantly tracking,
monitoring for changes and data

724
00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:42,240
for updating on a regular basis.
And then we input company data

725
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,640
into our network.
It will say like, hey, here are

726
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,520
the Ed investors that are
statistically more likely to

727
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,280
engage in this opportunity.
So we build some of our own

728
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,800
stack.
We have love open AI and Gemini

729
00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:58,320
perplexity for various different
tasks and responsibilities and

730
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,320
research and whatnot.
Like it's one of those things

731
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,200
where if you're not using it
like you're wildly inefficient.

732
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,680
Oh, it's.
Crazy perplexities because it

733
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,240
gives you all the sources.
I mean, they were the first ones

734
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:11,720
that come out and just say, OK,
this is where we got all this

735
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:13,880
data, so you better check it,
right?

736
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,240
Yeah, and what I love about it
actually is their their comment

737
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,880
browser.
They have I automate all kinds

738
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,040
of stuff on the the comment
browser.

739
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,560
I'm like, hey, like I probably
can't share what I'm automating

740
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,280
to some degree.
This is a certain compliance

741
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:34,760
thing.
So it's just like, I don't want

742
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,560
to do, you know, like have to
do, don't want to do.

743
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:43,040
I can literally write the prompt
and it will just do the task and

744
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,640
like check the boxes, you know,
read the question And it's just

745
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:49,280
like, you know, something that
would distract 45 minutes of my

746
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,880
brain capacity for like say
client work or meetings or

747
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,600
whatnot.
And I'm writing a 4 minute

748
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,160
prompt and just letting it run
in the background.

749
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:58,600
Yeah.
So there's just, there's a bunch

750
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:03,240
of really cool stuff out there
that's yeah, you're, you're

751
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:08,040
losing if you're not using it.
What have you found in terms of

752
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,760
for the benefit of the audience
here are your investors. 10%

753
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,640
family offices. 20% family
offices in aggregate, but not, I

754
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,840
know it's germane to the deal,
but what's your investor network

755
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,640
look like in terms of
composition of family offices?

756
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,280
It's on the lower side.
You know, I would say we're, we

757
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,520
push more to institutional
funds, just how we structure

758
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:37,680
things.
And they're just, it's a little

759
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:41,200
bit more reliable to kind of
know their scope, what they do,

760
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,600
what they want in family
offices.

761
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,200
We've had, I guess I have some
just good relationships, but

762
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,280
it's in the small number in
terms of just understanding what

763
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:54,960
they actually want, what they
do.

764
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,400
And also like, do they have any
interest in what we do?

765
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,960
What I try to do is just like
here, here's here's the options

766
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:03,440
on the silver platter in terms
of like what this deal could be

767
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,760
and why it might be relevant to
you.

768
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,760
And so we shop it out to, you
know, a good chunk of family

769
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,440
offices that we've met with, we
had dinners with or anything

770
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,280
like that for them to have the
optionality.

771
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,280
And some of them are, I would
say.

772
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,400
Ragtag family offices like kind
of borderline or you just an

773
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,120
ultra high no earth or you
actually family office to like

774
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,200
institutionalized, you know,
family offices where we're

775
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,120
talking to like more of an
employee as opposed to, you

776
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:30,520
know, kind of the principal.
Yeah, the principal.

777
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,080
So it's it's a bit of a mix.
Love to have more of those

778
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,680
conversations.
It's just one of those things

779
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,560
where it's like, wow, sounds
like what you're doing is really

780
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,400
cool.
I don't necessarily have

781
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,680
something in the books just for
that specific thing because like

782
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,640
sometimes we're like, we're, I
just did a deal.

783
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:46,360
Hopefully it closes this week.
We'll see.

784
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,160
There's like a football club
here in London or outside of

785
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,440
London and I'm at this family
office.

786
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,480
And then they're like, we're
really into like they have like,

787
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,000
oh, we do all this stuff.
But like, honestly, all we

788
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,680
really care about doing is like
football club deals.

789
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,400
I was like, that's so random.
Well, just what happens?

790
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,400
My friend is an owner of like a,
you know, level 5 football club

791
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,640
outside of London and I go to
the owner's box, meet all the

792
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,480
owners and they're talking about
their expansion strategies and

793
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,360
all that stuff.
And actually he's like, oh, you

794
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,600
guys, oh, you should talk to
these.

795
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:16,400
And they're like that.
Like just something as simple as

796
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,120
that is what connects the dots
on on some deals.

797
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:25,280
But yeah, so it's, it's
interesting how the preferences

798
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,120
and desires can, can change and
just being able to log that and

799
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,880
be able to understand how do we
know when to bring this deal to

800
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:33,880
that family office at the right
time?

801
00:41:34,240 --> 00:41:35,480
And that's what a lot of our AI
is.

802
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,920
We record and track everything.
And they were able to query our

803
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,040
own database with like a rack
model to be able to understand

804
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,840
like, OK, who have we talked to
in the last year, 2 years, three

805
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,400
years that would be interested
in something like this?

806
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:53,480
And we like kind of put in the
company data and it's like you

807
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:58,160
talked to James from this family
office, you know, 18 months ago,

808
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,360
Here is your last e-mail
exchange and here's why they'd

809
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:02,240
be interested.
I'm like.

810
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,440
You mentioned how long that
would have taken.

811
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:05,880
I want.
To give it.

812
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,080
Up and a half ago you would have
forgotten first of all, and

813
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:12,800
secondly you would have taken
forever to retrieve that data.

814
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,240
It's pretty amazing.
Yeah, that's that's why I just

815
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:21,560
record everything because
otherwise I, I, I, I have way

816
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,360
too many meetings.
My meeting recorder tells me

817
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,600
it's like, yeah, 45 meetings
last week for a total of like

818
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,360
1000 something minutes.
I'm like, who did I meet with?

819
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:33,920
Yeah, right.
At the every Monday I have to go

820
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,000
through and say who did I meet
with last week just to kind of

821
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,080
make sure I keep track of
things.

822
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:41,520
Yeah, it's thank God for the
recorders just because otherwise

823
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,560
and they can do them in person
now.

824
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,920
You can record it in person logs
in the same file which is great.

825
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,560
That's awesome.
So, well, maybe there'll be a

826
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,360
handful of family offices that
listen to this, be interested in

827
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,800
having a conversation with you,
which is part of the objective

828
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,760
here.
But at the very least, I super

829
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,080
appreciate you sharing this
because it's been fascinating.

830
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:02,280
Yeah, it and what you said at
the beginning is, I think,

831
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:07,880
really relevant in that you were
struggling to, when you were

832
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,400
doing the deals for yourself.
Everybody had an agenda and

833
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:14,520
nobody was working on your
behalf besides you.

834
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,040
Now you can step in and say, OK,
is this good for the investor or

835
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,760
is this good for the founder,
right?

836
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,000
Yeah, yeah.
And that's, that's what I love

837
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,640
to do.
That's my favorite part about

838
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,360
what we do is really helping
solve these complex, you know,

839
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,400
problems.
And also hearing like what

840
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,440
investors want and trying to
keep a pulse on what actually

841
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,600
what deals do they actually want
to pursue.

842
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,080
Because in the market's shifted
so much in the last few years

843
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,000
from like sector preference to
AI this, AI that.

844
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,480
And it's just a matter of like,
OK, well, like who's still

845
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,480
looking for these types of
businesses?

846
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,400
What are they willing to pay and
being able to use technology to

847
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,240
streamline the kind of memory
recall that's required to kind

848
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,880
of do these deals to kind of tap
the network that we already

849
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,160
have.
And as I kind of very much

850
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,080
express, I meet with a lot of
people every single week, always

851
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,680
looking to meet more and just
trying to help expand, you know,

852
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,480
who we talked to and and who we
might be able to help and, you

853
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,160
know, facilitate interesting
opportunities too.

854
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,840
Yeah, it's misused as a sound
bite in the public media, but do

855
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:20,240
you have any opinion about the
frothiness of the AI?

856
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,560
You know, I was on record not
too long ago on another podcast

857
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,080
around this topic.
Yeah, At the end of the day, it

858
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,320
is a bubble, but it's not, it's
not, it's not the same bubble

859
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,640
that we attribute to likethe.com
or, you know, the housing bubble

860
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,000
or anything like that.
There's a material value being

861
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,040
created in these companies very
fast.

862
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,960
There's an adoption rate we've
never seen before in the AI

863
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,000
sector.
Like people are like, oh, the

864
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,600
CapEx going in these companies,
like, yeah, like, but there's

865
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:53,960
revenue high, growing, fast
growing revenue right behind

866
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,800
them.
The problem is the bubble that

867
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:01,040
in reality that people think is
happening, it's like, oh, bad AI

868
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:02,640
companies are getting funded
like, I don't think so.

869
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,280
Like most of the company AI
companies, they could be

870
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,800
disappearing very quickly.
So I think they kind of like the

871
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,880
precede seed Series A companies
that are like AI wrapper of that

872
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:13,960
and AI wrapper of that.
The application layer guys,

873
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,160
those ones are getting wiped out
very fast because the big model

874
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,240
guys are just yeah, we'll offer
that like similar like, you

875
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:24,320
know, the App Store and Apple
back in the day where, you know,

876
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,080
the flashlight app was like,
let's just get rid of that.

877
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Let's just make it ourselves.
Like those things are happening

878
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,800
so quickly that it's hard for
Visa and I'm talking to a lot of

879
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,000
companies, which I feel so bad
for it.

880
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:37,680
They're like, hey, can you help
sell us?

881
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,960
And like, I'm like, AI is going
to gobble you up.

882
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,160
Like who would buy you?
Like if you're not AI native

883
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:50,400
with an immense, you know, it's
like Moat to defend yourself.

884
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,960
You just don't really have much
value in today's economy.

885
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,680
Like you know what conglomerates
like there used to be a decision

886
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,480
in M&A, strategic M&A, it's
like, well, how much, how much

887
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,160
time and toss would it take to
build?

888
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:04,600
This to build it, right?
Yeah.

889
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,640
And you know how And that's that
values.

890
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,320
From this to this, Yeah, yeah.
It's like, oh, I had to have 30

891
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,480
engineers for a year do this and
now it's like I'm going to have

892
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,240
a guy on this weekend get a
prototype out the door.

893
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:20,640
Now, granted, it's not
enterprise grade and blah, blah,

894
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:25,280
blah, blah, blah, but like that
self-confidence of MVP makes

895
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,800
them feel like they can produce
an equivalent product very

896
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,240
quickly.
So these SAS companies that are

897
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:35,360
like sub 10 million in revenue
that don't have a true Moat,

898
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,440
don't have true AI, they're
going to have a hard time

899
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,160
getting the premiums they
thought they would get.

900
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,840
And that's a hard reality for me
to share because that's

901
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:44,800
obviously disadvantaged me like
most bankers are.

902
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can totally
sell you for 10X revenue.

903
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,520
We did a deal like that in 2019.
Yeah, right.

904
00:46:50,560 --> 00:46:52,960
And, you know, it's just like I
can't tell them that.

905
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:55,880
And as much as I, you know,
won't get the job.

906
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,680
That's all right.
Reality will set in.

907
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,000
You might make a little bit of
money, but then it'll fail,

908
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:02,760
right?
Everybody will be unhappy.

909
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,000
Yeah, I do.
I do AI roll ups for fun.

910
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,280
Oh, that for fun.
That's a part of my job.

911
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,520
But like we that's one of my
favorite parts is like these AI

912
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,960
companies that are rolling up
service companies.

913
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,120
So we have a deal right now
that's coming together like

914
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,840
companies doing like half a
million million EBITDA somewhere

915
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:20,040
in that range.
And they came to us and like,

916
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,360
oh, we want 5X, you know,
EBITDA.

917
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,800
I was like, well, you're a
service business at 15 X 15%

918
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:29,200
EBITDA margins.
Like that margin is going to

919
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,240
disappear in like a year because
like AI is going to wipe you

920
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:35,120
out.
Like in this client that we're

921
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,320
representing will be the one
that wipes you out because if

922
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,360
you don't, if you don't settle
them, they're just going to

923
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,400
replace you.
And like you have the

924
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,920
opportunity to give them a two
year head start with your client

925
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:50,000
base and get a premium now more
like 2X3X and sell today versus?

926
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,480
0.
You get 0 like your business

927
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,560
will slowly deplete and you
know, would you rather get the

928
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,560
cash up fraud, go figure out
something else, go live on a

929
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,040
beach for a couple years or
would you, you know, try to

930
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,080
compete?
And so kind of a fun

931
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,560
conversation to have with some
of these companies about what

932
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:06,840
should they do in these
environments.

933
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:12,160
So it's been really like a fun
project to to be working on on

934
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,480
that front.
And there's tons of them, right?

935
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:16,840
It's kind of endless.
Yeah.

936
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:19,600
Especially the overlay
companies, because they just

937
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:24,600
took all the LLMS and built
something that anybody could

938
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:26,840
build over them with the little
engineering.

939
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:28,440
Right?
100% yeah.

940
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,920
Wild.
Well, I super appreciate you

941
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,560
doing this, Jason.
Tell everybody it's Thunder VC,

942
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,840
right?
Yeah, the website's Thunder dot

943
00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,000
BC if you guys have any
questions, you can reach me at

944
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,560
Jason at
thunder.bcyoucanfindme@linkedinat.linkedin.com/and/that

945
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,800
was it.
Jason R Kirby.

946
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:47,920
I put out a podcast called $100
million exits, right?

947
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,920
Interview founders and investors
that have experienced $100

948
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,680
million plus exits.
I've had, you know, 100 episode,

949
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:55,240
actually 100 episode goes out
tomorrow.

950
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:01,280
So happy to, to chat, talk to
you flow, kind of share what

951
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,520
we're doing on the how we help
companies navigate these these

952
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,800
situations.
So maybe if they have a

953
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,720
portfolio company that they're
kind of figuring out what to do

954
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:12,120
with, we can have that
conversation.

955
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,080
We're always having to have
conversations, see where it goes

956
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,080
and, you know, see what can be
done.

957
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,680
Yeah, Super interesting.
Really appreciate it.

958
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,600
Yeah, Thanks for joining us
today.

959
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:24,960
Thank you.
Thank you, everybody for

960
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:27,400
spending with us.
The only thing you can't make

961
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:28,520
more of.
And that's your time.

962
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:30,400
Super cool, Jason.
Thank you.

963
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:32,640
Appreciate it.
You bet.

964
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:33,520
Thank you.