Clarity is love in practical form with Jermaine Ee.

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Hello everybody.
Thanks for joining us for

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another episode of Arthur's
Roundtable.

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Super grateful for people that
are paying attention and the

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Family Office Insights
community, which we're also

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super grateful for because they
pay attention a lot.

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And thanks for joining us today.
We're happy to have Jermaine

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here with us and we're going to
talk about his journey, but he

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also has a company that is
interesting to the group.

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I'm sure you'll find it
interesting once we get into it

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here.
So, Tremaine, thanks for being

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here and welcome.
Thank you.

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Thank you for having me on.
Let's start with your journey.

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Start at the beginning if you'd
like.

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Yeah, so born and raised in Los
Angeles to immigrant parents, I

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am Malaysian Chinese.
So in Malaysia is very much like

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the United States.
It's a multicultural place,

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multi ethnic, multi religious
place.

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And so, you know, I, I've kind
of grown up with this concept of

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living next to people who are
very different and getting along

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and finding common ground.
And so for that I am grateful

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because I think that has
informed a lot of the way I look

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at the world.
So I spent about 10 years in

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Malaysia and then I moved back
to the US, did high school, went

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to USC and then graduated but
could never get a job because

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everything that was interesting
to me, I was either under

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qualified or overqualified for.
So anybody who looked at my

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resume would just think this is
a risky hire.

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Either he's not going to stay
for too long or he's just too

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under qualified.
And so I was 21 years old,

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between 21 and 24, I drove for
4000 rides in Uber so that I can

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spend the other 8 hours of my
day building startups.

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And so about five years in, you
know, I, I've been building this

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company that helps virtual
reality, implement virtual

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reality and augmented reality
filters onto Snapchat.

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And so I would go to restaurant
and say, Hey, would you like

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someone to take a picture around
you and have branded content

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based on the, the Geo fence, the
targeting based on the location.

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And they pay me a fee.
And what we wanted to build

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technology, but what ended up
happening was we build an agency

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model.
You know, client services has

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its funds and and frustrations.
So when the 2016 election

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happened, I was sitting in San
Diego with a friend from Alabama

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and a friend from Seattle.
And what I noticed was that they

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were both incredibly kind and
thoughtful human being, but they

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were talking over each other.
They couldn't just there was a

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lack of empathy.
Do you think I'm sorry to

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interrupt you, but it's only
because I've been around for a

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long time, not because I know
what I'm talking about, but when

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I experience what you just
described.

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Smart people and kind people
have not learned how to listen,

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and they're often waiting for
the people across the table to

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stop talking so they can say
what's next on their mind.

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And it's not malicious, it's
just not a well honed skill to

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listen well, right?
Does that make sense to you?

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Yeah, I think a big part of it
is that we live in such a

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information heavy life now,
right?

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We we're constantly bombarded
with things and things that

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pushes us to have opinions
without even forming, not even

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having enough information,
right.

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And so and I think a lot of
times our default setting is

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just tied to our ability to
defend an idea or ability to

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have an opinion that is either
accepted by the masses or feels

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good, you know, to our
community.

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So I think oftentimes we just
forget to challenge what our

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default settings are.
Yeah, Jermaine, I'm so glad that

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you said it that way because
it's very clear and it's what

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we're experiencing in the large
part in the world today,

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especially the US, where people
attach themselves to an ideology

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without that serves them because
their echo chamber validates

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that, right?
And they haven't really dug

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deep, but they like the idea
that they're defending, right?

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Yeah, I, I think we all like to
be right, you know, and we, we

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all like to be validated.
And, you know, I am no

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exception.
You know, I, I have my biases

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and I do think we live in the
greatest country in this

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experiment, but it is definitely
not perfect, right?

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And that's kind of the beauty of
it is that we're we all have and

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are entitled to our opinions and
whether or not we can put it to

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work and play the game and get
the things that we want.

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I think that is the experiment.
And so, yeah, I I thought after

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that conversation that I didn't
want to spend the next year

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selling more augmented reality
ads.

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I didn't want to just sell ads,
basically.

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And so I cold emailed the
treasurer of California at the

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time is a guy by the name of
John Chung, very, very

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incredible man.
And I aligned with his policies

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because he's a fiscally
conservative but socially fairly

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progressive guy.
And what he was famous for at

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the time, we don't, I won't go
too far into politics, but what

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he was famous for at the times,
yeah, it was that he helped the

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the pay of the California
legislature because they

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couldn't pass a budget that
balanced.

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And so he made a lot of enemies
on both sides.

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And I thought would what a
refreshing idea to have someone

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who looked at the books and say,
hey, this budget just doesn't

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make sense, right.
And so I cold emailed him and

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and got a job with him and ran
his.

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I didn't run his entire
campaign.

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I I was his finance deputy and
we ran a campaign against Gavin

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Newsom and lost.
But what I'm.

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Sorry to hear that, sounds like
a he sounds like he would have

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been a better candidate based on
what?

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Gavin's managed to do with
California, and I can be

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political about that.
So I mean, I, I have have a lot

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of thoughts on it because I was
in the campaign.

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Yeah, I imagine you do.
You probably saw the plumbing

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right?
We have we have a lot of

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competitive research and things
like that, but but I think what

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it taught me the most is how the
game is played.

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It's like, how does money affect
power?

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How does attention come around?
And how do we time things in the

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media cycle that can win a
campaign?

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And what what is a campaign?
It's just you have a set of the

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way that you look at this world
that you think should be and

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you're out there convincing
other people to do it.

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And I think that's also a lost
skill these days because I think

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people shy away from defending
what they believe it.

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And then then you have the other
side of the spectrum where

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people defend something that
they believe in so strongly

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without a lot of thought, a lot
of information and a lot of

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validation.
And so, so for 18 months, I was

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able to sit in these meetings
where I really got to see, you

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know, how are, how do things
work?

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And it's incredible.
It's made me very jaded, you

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know, And now if a kid comes up
to me and say, Hey, I want to go

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change the world, I'm going to
go to law school and then be a

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public defendant.
And I'm like, no, no, go to

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Goldman Sachs, right?
And make more money, right.

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And perhaps you can learn about
lobbying or something like that.

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Because unfortunately, that's
how the world works.

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And for better or worse, that's,
that's where we are in the

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experiment that that is this
democracy that we have.

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And so after the campaign had
ended, I moved to New York

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because if you can make it in
New York, you can make it

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anywhere.
And so I raised some money,

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started a company with the goal,
the mandate was to create 10

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locations of a education
startup.

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And then once I create a 10
location, I can scale it by

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franchising it.
And so this startup was the

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whole theme of it is to train
children's brain to help them

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focus better.
And the way we came about that

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was we had met a woman from
Korea who was the best at mental

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math.
So we hooked her brain up to MRI

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at Stanford, studied the data
and things like that, took the

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research and created a
curriculum that essentially was

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like a Kumon and Mathnasium
model, you know, so every

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location had the unit economics
work out to be probably walk

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away with 2K per year net for
the owners.

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And when I got to location #5
ramping up six and seven, COVID

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hit and you know, real estate,
that was probably the first time

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I had multiple threats of real
estate lawsuits and things like

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that.
And we got out of that company

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still going in a completely
different form now.

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And it's actually expanded to
Indonesia.

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It's it's doing fairly well, I
think.

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And then I went into a time
where I wanted to spend more

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time with family.
So I think COVID did that to a

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lot of people.
And I just planted my entire

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life next to my parents.
We got a Co working space.

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They sat across from me in the
hallway.

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They ran their own business and
I ran my own.

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I was consulting at the time
doing some head hunting for VC

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and private equity backed
companies and I was just

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fascinated by the talent game,
by the ability to put a team

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together and, and make a really
big impact and kind of a random

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tie into family offices.
I actually hired ACOO.

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No, I'm sorry.
I hired a VP of finance for a

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family office here in LA and the
goal was to just build proper

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systems and build a proper CRM
to manage everything.

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So I have a little bit of
exposure to your space, so.

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Hired them for your firm.
I hired them 40 family office,

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so the family office had.
Hired.

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So you did a placement?
Yeah, got it.

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We did a placement for it, yeah.
And that's what, that's the

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first time I got to tap to
probably 80 or 90 back office,

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family office folks and it was
quite fun.

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Yeah, I bet.
Yeah.

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Yeah, so can.
We just go back one second

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because it's timely and if you
don't mind, and if you do, it's

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OK too.
What seemingly is going on with

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political campaigns, some of
them when you were working

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there?
I'm wondering whether what we

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believe to be true is often
really happening where somebody

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who's writing the checks,
meaningful checks to get

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somebody in power, have some
ideological position on

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something.
Let's just say the one that's

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very clear and Gavin is not
willing to admit because it

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sounds like somebody's got him
under their thumb.

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I don't understand this.
But, you know, where should we

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have your men and women's
sports?

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I mean, it's pretty obvious to
most people.

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It's probably not a good idea.
And I'm not asking you to

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confirm or deny that.
I'm just saying.

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And so, you know, the allegation
with Gavin is that Alex Soros

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has been funding him that
whatever Alex says he's going to

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do.
Did you find the case where your

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candidate was more true to what
they believed to be the truth or

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was he also?
And I'm not asking you to throw

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him under the bus.
I'm just saying in the process

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of learning how all this works,
what you were saying how this

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works.
Is it often the case where the

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the checks big enough?
I'm going to fly in the face

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what I really believe, so I make
sure I get the money.

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So there is a few layers to
this.

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I, I have helped on a
presidential campaign and it's

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on it's Andrew Yang's campaign.
You know, I, I like him as just,

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I think just got along.
But so I can't speak to

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everybody because I think it's a
little bit general.

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I think there probably are some
ideological things that are

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happening.
However, I do think in a perfect

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world a good candidate will
question if this check, what

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does this check?
What weight does this check come

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with?
Yeah.

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What's it going on with?
Yeah, and and why I like John,

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why I went to work for him and
that's the only campaign I've

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ever worked on.
I basically quit politics after

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I helped around a little bit but
never had a job after was

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because he say no to money to a
lot of places and maybe because

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maybe that's also why he
couldn't win, right?

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Yeah.
So you're talking to a candidate

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with I think with a spine and
was willing to stand up to

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things that are wrong.
And so it is hard to get to the

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peak of politics without
compromising some things that

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you really care about.
I think actually it's it's

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impossible because I think the
way the country is set up is

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that you have to build some
coalition, right?

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And if we really think about the
way things are right now,

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00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,240
probably 30% of Americans are on
one side, 30 on the other.

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And then you have 40 that don't
really care or can be swayed a

230
00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,520
little bit.
And the goal isn't to win the

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00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,480
30s because those are kind of
set.

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It's really the middle, like how
do you dice it up and how can

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00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,160
you win the rhetoric and, and
you know, on the Democratic

234
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,640
side, it will be like the labor
union monies and things like

235
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that, the labor influence on
that side.

236
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,680
And, and the Republican side,
you know, would be churches, you

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00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,360
know, and, and there are like
organized groups like that where

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00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,800
ideology is the main reason why
they do something.

239
00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,320
But it is a little bit up to the
candidate, you know, how they

240
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,200
want to approach these.
So does that is does that a OK

241
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:09,000
answer?
Super helpful.

242
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,680
Yeah.
And by the way, I think Andrew

243
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,920
has a lot of good ideas.
There's, there's no doubt about

244
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,520
it, Like he's solid.
There's some ideas I don't agree

245
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,400
with, but that's going to happen
in every case.

246
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,320
Yeah, yeah.
And I think the dangerous part,

247
00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,080
yeah, the dangerous part is for
us to want to agree with a

248
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,440
candidate 100%.
You know, I think that is just

249
00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,760
impossible.
I don't agree with anybody 100.

250
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,400
Yeah, right.
Exactly.

251
00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,280
All right, so you sold the OR
exited from the learning company

252
00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:46,880
and then what now?
So I went to do, I thought I was

253
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:51,000
going to become a investor in
AVC setting because I love tech.

254
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,640
I love things that can scale.
And I met a guy, his name is

255
00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:57,320
Todd Gitlin.
He's a he's a headhunter, he's a

256
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,440
recruiter, executive recruiter.
And we had a chat and he told me

257
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,720
this one thing that completely
changed the way I thought about

258
00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,040
it, which is ideas and, and
monies everywhere.

259
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:10,640
But it's the ability to put a
team together to, to identify

260
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,200
talent, not in skills, not only
in skills, but also just

261
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,680
aptitude in emotion,
intelligence, you know, and on

262
00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,240
all of that.
And how do you pair that thing

263
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,920
together to build an incredible
organization?

264
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,200
And so I was lucky enough to
learn from him for about a year

265
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,240
and a half where I worked on and
supported mostly the deals that

266
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:35,080
he was working on.
Just incredible.

267
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:39,000
I think I've gained an MBA out
of those 18 months just by.

268
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,240
Talking to.
Super smart people all the time

269
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,280
and also very humbling.
Yeah.

270
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:48,160
And shortly after my mother who
raised 4 kids, she went back to

271
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:53,440
work essentially as an admin, a
very low paying admin, because

272
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,440
she didn't think that she
deserved the better job.

273
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,920
She hasn't.
She had an MBA since the 80s and

274
00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,240
she's worked prior to becoming a
full time mom.

275
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,440
But I think like many women, you
know, after raising kids, they

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00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,720
didn't, don't want to go back
and they're not as aggressive in

277
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,920
what they deserve.
And so they don't fight for it.

278
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:14,840
And my mom did the same.
She started as an admin, worked

279
00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:19,440
eight years up to being the vice
president of a import department

280
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,200
of a shipping company during
COVID.

281
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,120
And that was great.
That was a great time to be

282
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,600
doing imports.
And, and what we had realized

283
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,040
was that she wasn't happy about
some of the arrangements of a

284
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,680
company and how she was treated
a little bit.

285
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,560
And so I told her, hey, why
don't we start something, I have

286
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,920
some free time, let's work on
something to get her.

287
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:46,400
So we partnered up, we got an
office to get her and she had

288
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:51,640
built this little company into a
a healthy sub 10 million

289
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:53,800
positive EBITDA free cash flow
company.

290
00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,760
And so it's like a great
lifestyle company.

291
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,520
You know, talk about a woman who
immigrated to the US and and was

292
00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,120
working in restaurants in the
late 70s to she wouldn't ever

293
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,520
admit this, but to become a
millionaire, right?

294
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,200
That's the American dream.
And so and so the the best thing

295
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,600
about it, though, I was so
grateful that I got to spend all

296
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,800
my lunches with her.
You know, we got to talk all the

297
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,720
time.
We got to disagree on what

298
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,760
should we pay employees because
she's an, you know, an old

299
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,520
school kind of let's pay them
just right.

300
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,200
And, and I come from the world
of let's pay them above market.

301
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,600
So we retain them.
And so so we had our little

302
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,720
conflicts there.
And in all those conversations

303
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,080
that we had while we were
hanging out for lunch, I

304
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,840
realized that there was this
underlying fear of running out

305
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,320
of money before you die.
And the woman that had worked

306
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,680
all her life and saved all her
life didn't know what it looked

307
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,520
like to spend all her savings or
any of her savings.

308
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,160
And in these conversations, I
ended up building her a chat bot

309
00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,400
to talk to her about what are
who were you before you were my

310
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,160
mother?
You know what, what were your

311
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,720
hobbies?
What relationships that you

312
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,760
would stories that you want to
remember.

313
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,640
So she she would have to tell
this chat bot in whatever

314
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,040
language you wish to.
That's the beauty of AI.

315
00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,079
And the chat bot will remember
these things.

316
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,000
Her assets, relationships are
dreams.

317
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:19,960
Super cool.
Yeah.

318
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,520
And, and so a few months into
this, I realized if I have your

319
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:27,319
assets in your relationships, I
can make a will for you.

320
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,280
And so that's how air light came
to be.

321
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:34,560
And you know, someone who's not
from legal tech and not from

322
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,000
this field, I have, I have
basically 2 sets of attorneys,

323
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,520
one to work on the tech side of
it and the other side to keep me

324
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,560
out of estate planning trouble.
And we're doing it state by

325
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,080
state.
We're only live in California

326
00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:48,640
right now.
We're, we're going to expand to

327
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,720
the rest of the US hopefully in
the next 12 months or so.

328
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,760
And.
What is the?

329
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,760
Is the barrier?
Just making sure you have the

330
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:03,720
idiosyncratic, the idiosyncratic
nature of the state laws

331
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,960
properly in the chat box and the
documents.

332
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,080
Is that the barriers just work
like that or is there

333
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:15,400
regulatory?
There is no regulatory, there is

334
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,320
some ethical problems.
If my app were to give you legal

335
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,600
advice, that would be crossing
the line of ethics and I think

336
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,840
official is UPL unlawful
practices of law.

337
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,080
So, so companies like LegalZoom
has gone through these.

338
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,080
So there's some precedents that
we're following.

339
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,560
And Trust and will, right?
Trust and will as well.

340
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,320
Yes, Trust and will was a San
Diego based company.

341
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:43,360
So where we are is when somebody
wants to create a will or any

342
00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,760
estate plan, they first Google
or they asked their friends,

343
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,120
right?
So right, Google is free, is

344
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,600
uncertain.
And then you move up one step.

345
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,800
ChatGPT is free, but it's it's
very uncertain.

346
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,640
It's actually horrible at
drafting anything because there

347
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,600
are no guardrails.
And then you move up one step in

348
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,520
the consideration chain.
You go to companies like Trust

349
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:09,200
and will free will.org, which is
a free service, and LegalZoom.

350
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,160
And these are essentially form
fillers.

351
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,400
They tell you what you need to
fill up in these these columns

352
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,960
and you fill in your information
and then you go up one more than

353
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,360
its attorneys.
It's expensive, but it's

354
00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,240
certain, right?
It's tailored.

355
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,760
And so if you think of this
chain of consideration, a lot of

356
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,360
people, first of all, won't even
take the step to do it.

357
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:36,480
So our biggest, our biggest
competition is inaction and in a

358
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,400
second, second competition,
sorry, go.

359
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,600
For it's not a very pleasant
thing to think about.

360
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,400
Right.
And there's an ego element to

361
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,080
IT.
People who may be at 45 years

362
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,560
old, they feel like they should
know something about estate

363
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,920
planning, but they don't.
And because of that, they refuse

364
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,720
to start a conversation.
They put it off.

365
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,400
Let's, you know, let's make it a
little lighter.

366
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,320
They put it off.
They say, oh, we'll do it next,

367
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,880
next year.
And so the solution that we're

368
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,320
building right now that we have
is a chatbot.

369
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,600
That immediately ask you the
most important questions.

370
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,480
For example, do you have kids?
Are they minors?

371
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,120
Do you have pets?
Do you have homes?

372
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,160
And we built this users context
and then we're able to chat with

373
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,800
the user and clarify things of
what they want, what they don't

374
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,480
want.
And because we have all this

375
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,880
context, we're also able to
educate the user.

376
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:29,040
So if the user is saying, what
is the difference between a

377
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:31,960
guardianship and a
conservatorship based on the

378
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:35,960
context of that user, we're able
to to tell them, you know, like

379
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:38,800
here's what it is.
Our biggest constraint is we

380
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,280
cannot give legal advice.
And so the best thing we can do

381
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,280
is based on their context, we
give them the best practices of

382
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,400
other people and they have to
choose.

383
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:52,160
And so our job is to translate
what they choose into a legal

384
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,120
document that is valid in their
state.

385
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:58,920
So it's very interesting their
storytelling to you, prompted by

386
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:05,160
questions and then the answers
frames out how you would explain

387
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,120
to them why a guardianship or
conservatorship is different for

388
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,920
them as opposed to in general,
right?

389
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,360
Yes.
And that's the beauty of AI is

390
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,280
that we get to explain this in
English and Spanish, you know,

391
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,800
in Vietnamese or whatever other
languages.

392
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,320
Of course, whenever I I bring
this up to my lawyers, they,

393
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,920
they get nervous because now
we're we're toeing the line of

394
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,080
what is legal?
What can we say, what can we

395
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,880
not?
But if I think to its core, what

396
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,880
is AI good for in everyday
consumer?

397
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,000
It's problems like these, right?
It's things that feel daunting,

398
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,840
but because there's a low
barrier of entry as well as

399
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,840
there's no ego behind it and now
you can actually fill the

400
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,440
information gap.
And there's some anonymity about

401
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,920
IT, people, your ego point.
I think it's important because

402
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,440
if you go to your local attorney
and you have to disclose

403
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,320
everything to them and you also
have to disclose that you don't

404
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,360
know what you're talking about
and you might feel intimidated

405
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:10,160
by the knowledge that you don't
have.

406
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,560
And then of course, you have to
write them a check.

407
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,680
And the, the, the, as you, I'm
sure you know, the, the business

408
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,640
of writing wills, unless you
someone has a lot of money in a

409
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,160
complex estate is the, the
historically, the real value is

410
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,200
having the wills in the vault
and then the law firm will

411
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,040
prosper once you die.
So it's like a, an annuity

412
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,640
asset, right?
Because then they could

413
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,080
administer the will and that's
when they make the money.

414
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,920
They don't make the money on a
$5000 will, right?

415
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,400
Yeah, we, we have, you know, the
one of the common pushbacks from

416
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,520
attorneys is a lot of our users
really do need a trust.

417
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,000
And to that I say I completely
agree.

418
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,040
You know, however, how do we get
them from zero to 1?

419
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,120
How we, how do we get them to
even consider doing this?

420
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,560
And I have so far recommended
over a dozen of my users to

421
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,880
attorneys based on what they
asked me to.

422
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,600
Because sometimes, you know, I,
I understand someone's situation

423
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,720
because I, I call my users just
to understand what they're

424
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,840
building and their life and, and
everything.

425
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,240
And I tell them like, Hey, I'm
not supposed to give you legal

426
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,360
advice, but I think you should
talk to a lawyer because there

427
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,360
are things that my app will flag
for us, where we're finding a

428
00:23:20,360 --> 00:23:23,720
little bit of challenge is that
we're at 179 a year.

429
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,440
If I send my user to any
attorney, the price will 10

430
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,560
times, right?
And so then there's a sticker

431
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,040
shock factor where I now no
longer am able to fulfill a

432
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,760
promise to my user which is to
give them an estate plan.

433
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,160
Right.
Yeah, but you look, I don't know

434
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,800
where this is going to go.
Sounds super interesting.

435
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,760
It gets people from zero to 60,
right?

436
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,080
It's better to not die
intestate.

437
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,920
It's better to have a will or
what do they call the the a

438
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,640
living living will or living
trust or something like that

439
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,080
where you don't have to go
through probate.

440
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,080
I mean, all that's better than
leaving it alone, right?

441
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,840
So I think that you could help a
lot of people getting from, you

442
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,080
know, disaster to at least some
form of organized so the heirs

443
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:19,400
don't have to deal with nonsense
if you no go ahead.

444
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,920
Yeah, on that point, you know,
if you kind of think back to why

445
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,520
I started this, it was to help
my mother gain clarity of what

446
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,120
she has.
I think this is the thing that

447
00:24:30,120 --> 00:24:33,760
I'm trying to do in my startup.
That's the vision of the

448
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,600
startup.
It's clarity because I, I

449
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,560
believe a lot of times people
live on just on like an

450
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,560
autopilot and the moment you
stop and think about what you

451
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,120
currently have and what does it
really mean to have enough,

452
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:52,800
right?
Because there's, there's kind of

453
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,080
this endless chase of either
things or relationships and

454
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,440
experiences and things like
that.

455
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,480
But I would love to help people
to think about what they

456
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,680
currently have and what does it
mean to them?

457
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,440
And maybe when you identify
these things, do a little bit

458
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,160
more of that, the things that
you like.

459
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:17,040
So, you know, clarity is love in
practical form, and I think if

460
00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,080
we can help the people that we
love have more clarity, that's

461
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,960
the whole business.
I think you're on to something.

462
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,480
In fact, I've spent a lot of
time with people who have lots

463
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,400
of money, enormous amounts of
money, and some of them that are

464
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,320
closer to me just because I've
seen this movie before so many

465
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,160
times.
And I sit on advisory boards of

466
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,240
family offices and I see the
conflicts with the children and

467
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,400
I know the kids are on drugs and
whatever, whatever.

468
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:49,320
All the problems that whether
you're rich or not still exist

469
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,320
is that people often don't
think.

470
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,160
They don't want to get off the
treadmill.

471
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,880
And they don't think about, wait
a minute, should I be living my

472
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,280
best life because I only have 30
more years left?

473
00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:07,680
And they don't think about it in
that context.

474
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,960
And I think you're on to
something because, and I've only

475
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,600
experienced it where there's
just endless amounts of money.

476
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,600
But even when there's endless
amounts of money, there's a

477
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,360
certain level of lifestyle that
someone might, especially if

478
00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,760
it's not new money, right?
That they, they don't need to,

479
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,640
you know, go and spend a lot of
money to demonstrate to the

480
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,800
world that they have it or feel
like they need to do it.

481
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,840
But I've, I've spent a lot of
time with people who finally

482
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,960
realize, wait a minute, I can
spend some of this money and not

483
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,320
feel guilty and enjoy my life
with my family and not even

484
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,640
think about it anymore, right?
It's like, and, and of course

485
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,080
the main element of that is
fear, right?

486
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,800
Or the, the awareness that you
truly won't be running out of

487
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,840
money, right?
It's different if you don't have

488
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,560
a lot, but you could run out.
But I think you're on to

489
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,200
something.
I think that's, that is the

490
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,520
message is kind of this reminder
to, to each other.

491
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,880
So I'm 34 now and in my 20s I, I
worked every day.

492
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,560
I, I think I didn't do anything
except for work.

493
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,800
And sometimes I go to Europe now
and I spend my summers mostly in

494
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,720
Europe because my partner's
European and I look at this

495
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,320
hostels and I thought I should
have, I should have backpacked

496
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,920
Europe and stayed in a hostel in
my 20s because I, I wouldn't do

497
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,520
it in my 30s, right.
And so I'm thinking ahead now,

498
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,000
what would I not do in my E that
I could do in my 30s now?

499
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,640
And the answer is simple.
It's why I've been traveling so

500
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,120
much with my partner because we
know that one day we'll have

501
00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:45,040
kids and we're probably not
going to have strollers going to

502
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,760
the Taj Mahal in India.
You know, we'll do that to

503
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,240
Copenhagen, where the streets
are fairly easy to roll a

504
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,320
stroller.
And so now I'm thinking about

505
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,000
all the things that I want to do
in my 30s and this period of my

506
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,840
life.
And there's the same version of

507
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,520
that for the 40s, fifties,
sixties, 70s and and so on.

508
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:05,120
And so I think, you know, this
concept of time flies is kind of

509
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,920
crazy to me because we all have
the same amount of time.

510
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,760
I think it's just that we kind
of forget about how we spend

511
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,760
these time and so.
It is the most valuable asset we

512
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,520
have.
It's yeah it time and and health

513
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,400
is like the only thing that we
got to protect.

514
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,360
Yeah, you're going to laugh, but
my my kids laugh at me all the

515
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:29,200
time because I say to them, I
have 32 1/2 more years left.

516
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,040
And they go, well, how'd you
come up with that?

517
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,880
And I said, well, it's just an
estimate, but it's probably

518
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,240
pretty accurate.
And I don't want to spend a

519
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,560
minute doing things that I don't
want to do.

520
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,560
And I admit that I'm in a
position where I can make that

521
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,960
decision.
You know, I'm not worried about

522
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:49,920
where the next meal is coming
from, but being discerning about

523
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,880
your time is huge.
And it also plays into the

524
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,560
health part of it because if
you're always stressed out, we

525
00:28:56,560 --> 00:29:00,640
know heart disease happens
because of stress in large part,

526
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,360
right?
So yeah, I think you're you're

527
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:08,040
really something.
Yeah, I I don't think this, I

528
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,960
don't think I told you this
before, but my mom suddenly

529
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:15,080
passed away in August.
You didn't tell me, but I read

530
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:16,440
it.
Yes, I'm sorry to.

531
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,880
Hear that five months ago from
today, which feels like a long

532
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,200
time ago now.
And because of those three years

533
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,880
that we have to get her, we did
so much right.

534
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,680
We went all over the world.
And my dad, my mom, and

535
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,200
sometimes my brothers and
sisters are coming along.

536
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,440
And I always think that would I
have lived any differently if I

537
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,760
knew she was going to be gone?
I think probably not.

538
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,240
I've squeezed every trip out of
it.

539
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,640
That was reasonable.
You know, there's still life

540
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,280
that we got to do and we we
just, you know, if you've got to

541
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,040
work, you got to work.
That is part of living and part

542
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,440
of being in a society.
But I do think a lot of people

543
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,880
put off.
Yeah, no doubt.

544
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,920
And some people put it off
because they don't have a

545
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,440
choice, like they have to get up
and toil away to make sure the

546
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,360
kids can go to school, etcetera,
etcetera, etcetera, right, and

547
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,200
eat, I mean some.
I would even actually I would

548
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,320
even challenge that a little bit
because you know, we I had this

549
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,760
conversation with my parents.
They wanted a bigger house,

550
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,640
right?
And they wanted this American

551
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,080
dream for white picket fence and
like a single story house in

552
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,240
Pasadena and that that will set
of this back a few $1,000,000 in

553
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,480
Pasadena.
And and I, I did the

554
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,520
calculation.
I say, hey, look, if if we

555
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,480
didn't get a bigger house, we
would have this more amount of

556
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,360
more money to travel and to eat
with.

557
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,480
Never looking at the menu,
right?

558
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,040
Never looking at the price and
to live a life that focuses on

559
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,800
the things that actually matters
versus on what's an extra 2

560
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,400
bedrooms going to do for you,
right?

561
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,120
You're just going to store more
things that you, you communicate

562
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,120
mostly.
And I think like at different

563
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:54,800
levels of social economic, we
can have this conversation very

564
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,000
differently.
And, and because my family have

565
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:02,600
lived through from nothing to
having something like we are

566
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,560
more conscious about how we
spend and how we save.

567
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,480
And I mean, my dad has been an
entrepreneur his whole life and

568
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,680
that's where I got it from, you
know, to keep going back and

569
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,400
keep trying.
So we've lived with very little,

570
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,960
and we've lived with not
abundance, but with more.

571
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:21,640
Yeah, yeah, that's super
interesting.

572
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:27,160
I'm interested to know the
archives that you have as a

573
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,360
result of the storytelling your
mother put into the chat box.

574
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,040
Must be priceless.
One of the things that we did

575
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:38,960
was we went to Oklahoma in May
OK was the place that my parents

576
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:44,520
had arrived in the US in the
late 70s, and we decided to go

577
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:46,520
back to see where they started
their journey.

578
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,400
And we drove around Edmond and
OKC.

579
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,240
We visited these homes, the
neighborhoods that they lived

580
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,560
in, they don't look too great.
And we went to even the place

581
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,560
where my dad worked as a cleaner
at a Funeral Home because that

582
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,720
was the student job that he was
assigned to.

583
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,680
And somewhere along the way, my
mom had suggested that we go to

584
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,200
the first restaurant, if we can
call it a restaurant, that she

585
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,760
ever had food in the United
States.

586
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,040
And it was a Burger King in
Edmond, OK.

587
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,960
And we walked in.
I had my camera with me.

588
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:24,120
Actually, I have this big camera
here that I film everything.

589
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,000
And I miked her up.
And I said, hey, mom, why don't

590
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,280
you order what you ordered all
those years ago?

591
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,680
Because I'm sure the menu's the
same.

592
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:33,720
So she did.
Yeah.

593
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,280
She, she got a chicken sandwich.
And then she sat down and I

594
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,280
asked her, So what were you
thinking?

595
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,560
You know, this, you didn't speak
really any English at the time.

596
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,920
You got a student visa, and you
just pack your bags and came to

597
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,760
the US knowing that you had to
work for the whole, your degree,

598
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,200
basically.
And she said, well, when I first

599
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,720
got the sandwich those days, I
split it in half because I had

600
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,440
just converted the USD to
Malaysian bring it price in my

601
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,360
head and I can only afford half
of it.

602
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Yeah.
And I think, I think it was

603
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,200
really in that moment that it we
both, all of us, actually all

604
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,520
four of us standing right there,
notice this significance of this

605
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,320
moment of how far she's come and
really how incredible it is that

606
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:23,480
in one generation we went from,
you know, whatever she was doing

607
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,440
in Oklahoma to me walking around
making money just by talking all

608
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,160
day.
And it's just incredible.

609
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,080
It is incredible.
It speaks to the resilience of

610
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,360
your parents and the decision
making to just keep on pushing

611
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,400
forward and wanting a better
life for you, for them and your

612
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,520
kids.
But it also speaks to this truly

613
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,080
is the land of opportunity.
It's a, it's a 250 year

614
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,360
experiment.
It's not perfect like you said

615
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,760
at the beginning, but it's
pretty darn good.

616
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,400
Yeah, it is pretty darn good, I
think, for being entrepreneurs.

617
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:00,720
This is maybe one of the only
places in the world that

618
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,200
celebrates both the wins and the
losses.

619
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,040
You know, one thing that I
cannot stand being in Europe is

620
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,320
when you tell somebody an idea,
they'll tell you 10 ways why it

621
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,080
wouldn't work.
And you're and you're you're

622
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,560
sending in ballet in New York
and you tell somebody a crazy

623
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,760
idea and you're like, oh, what
about this?

624
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,920
And have you thought of this and
what about that?

625
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,719
And you know all the ways that
it could work.

626
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,679
And so, yeah, it is incredible.
It is incredible and, and what

627
00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:32,280
are the things that I've learned
in, for example, you mentioned

628
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,320
in the UK, if you have a
entrepreneurial failure in the

629
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,880
UK, you're hit with a scarlet
letter like no one wants to talk

630
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,440
to you and that's part of their
culture, right?

631
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,320
You failed.
And what's really interesting

632
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,840
and Silicon Valley's more like
this.

633
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,840
I don't put it to you this way.
The the contrast between New

634
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,760
York City and Silicon Valley
from entrepreneur and business

635
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,680
perspective is both different,
but good.

636
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,760
Meaning when you're in Silicon
Valley, everybody wants to help

637
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:05,920
you.
Not saying they will, but they

638
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,120
talk like they want to help you.
In New York City, people are

639
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,840
more interested in talking about
or getting to the meat of the

640
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:16,520
matter.
Like when you sit down in a

641
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,240
meeting in California, and I'm
not, I'm just generalizing my

642
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:21,760
experience.
I'm not throwing arrows at

643
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,840
anybody.
When you sit down in California,

644
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:25,640
everybody, oh, well, how was
your weekend?

645
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,960
What did you do that?
What are you do in New York?

646
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,200
You sit down in a meeting and
say, OK, what are we doing?

647
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,960
No, we're not doing that.
OK, but we'll do this or or

648
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,520
yeah, let's do it.
So it's a, it's a completely

649
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,320
different environment, but the
results are the same.

650
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,400
Meaning you get to a place,
right?

651
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:44,400
You just get to a differently.
It's really interesting.

652
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,600
They, they say that in
California, people are nice to

653
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,600
you outwardly and they may be
very toxic and judgmental

654
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,200
internally, whereas New York is
the opposite, right?

655
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,200
They, they not, they're not
going to be talking nice to you.

656
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,080
But I think New Yorkers are very
kind.

657
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:02,440
But they're super kind.
Yeah.

658
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,240
Some of the kindest people I
know.

659
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:09,120
I always use this example where,
you know, you have a German

660
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:15,200
family walking down 5th Ave. for
a stride and they don't realize

661
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:16,440
you can't do that.
New York.

662
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,440
You have to just.
You got to because people are

663
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,600
going to move around you and
you're blocking them and they're

664
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,200
walking at a slow play pace.
But the really interesting thing

665
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,600
is that when somebody who is not
familiar with New York and is

666
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:33,440
visiting, especially as a
tourist, they get lost and they

667
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,600
come and they say, excuse me,
Sir, may I ask you to get

668
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,280
directions?
And the New York is going, hold

669
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,720
on a second, just tell me where
you want to go and I'll get you

670
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,640
there.
But none of this fluff.

671
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,400
Just tell me where you want to
go.

672
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,160
Or you take the 6:00 train to
14th St., you get off, you go 2

673
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,440
blocks West and you know that's
and then they just keep on

674
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,320
moving.
Yeah, it is incredible.

675
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,560
When I go back to New York, this
there's a shift in my brain that

676
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,680
I noticed, which is all my
friends probably wear the same 5

677
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,040
watches.
They all talk in Aums and

678
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:07,720
evaluations and things like
that.

679
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:10,400
And then when I'm out of New
York, my life slows down a

680
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,680
little bit, which I've starting
to enjoy a little bit more.

681
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,720
As my girlfriend used to say
that I don't understand how you

682
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:20,920
do these meetings where it's 25
minutes to the dot.

683
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,560
Like how do you connect with
someone 25 minutes increments

684
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,880
throughout the entire day for 12
hours in a row.

685
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,600
And I used to do this all the
time because we're, we're just,

686
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,360
you know, productivity driven.
And, and so now I've really

687
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:34,960
pushed myself to slow down a
little bit.

688
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,680
You know, I've eliminated more
people that I don't want to talk

689
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,640
to and just try to focus on a
conversation that matters a

690
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,680
little bit and don't go a little
bit deeper in it.

691
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:48,480
So it's been a nice shift.
It's really valuable to without

692
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:54,520
prejudice, eliminating people in
your life that either are not

693
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,160
aligned with you, aren't
productive, are negative.

694
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,720
It's just, it's just it's not
worth having their energy

695
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,360
around, right?
And it could be people you've

696
00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,840
known for years, but I've done a
lot of that over the last few

697
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:11,960
years just because I've become,
as you get older, you're more,

698
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,680
there's a heightened awareness
about how much time you have

699
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,280
left, right?
It's really, I think I would say

700
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,040
the same for family too.
You may not be able to get rid

701
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,720
of family, but you can certainly
reduce the time spent with them.

702
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,840
Totally.
And if you have toxic people,

703
00:38:27,240 --> 00:38:29,960
the energy is just bad.
It's not good for anybody,

704
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,040
right?
It's certainly not worth having

705
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,120
that bad vibe for sure.
You know, what's really

706
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,600
interesting about, you know,
prior to COVID when you're

707
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,560
talking about learning from
people, like when you learn from

708
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:46,240
the headhunter that you worked
with, for example, we, we've for

709
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,600
years done these in person pitch
sessions.

710
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,200
Now we do them on Zoom because
of COVID and I'm out of the city

711
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,160
most of the time.
But what invariably happens is

712
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,480
you've got somebody, an
entrepreneur pitching an idea.

713
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,400
It could be a startup, it could
be around ABC, it doesn't

714
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,080
matter.
And you've got 30 family

715
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,240
offices, really smart rich
people.

716
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:10,320
Not all rich people are smart,
but in the room and you're

717
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:16,800
pitching to them and IA 100% of
the time, the person who's

718
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,720
pitching walks away out of that
room with an idea that they

719
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:25,080
never even thought of because
the people in the room are

720
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,760
really smart.
And so the byproduct of being in

721
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,520
that ecosystem was, holy cow, we
never even thought about that.

722
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,520
And so they would probably
walked away with some money, but

723
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,480
they walked away with something
more valuable, something that

724
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,480
they hadn't thought about.
And it's really is productive to

725
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,160
be with smart people and
thoughtful people and, you know,

726
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,040
kind people.
Sometimes you don't get that,

727
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,760
but it's it's good to have that.
Yeah, I, I had a conversation

728
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,520
with someone who built
authentication tools.

729
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,360
He's a software engineer.
And from that conversation, I

730
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,280
just, he, you know, realized
that actually we're over

731
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,280
engineering some of our things.
What we should be focusing on

732
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,680
even more than we already do is
how to build trust and how to

733
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,520
build trust by design.
But the fonts, the colors and

734
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,440
animations and things like that.
As a founder, I think it's very

735
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,200
easy to be distracted by many
things.

736
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,440
But yeah, I I got to just
constantly remind myself that

737
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,720
the only currency I have of my
user is that they trust me.

738
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,280
They trust me with their most
personal data, which we do

739
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,200
probably a lot to protect.
We encrypt everything.

740
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,840
And I think sometimes talking to
smart people just helps me

741
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,840
realign with what I should be
focusing on, and more

742
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,480
importantly, what should not be
focusing on.

743
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,120
Yeah, it's really important.
So you talked about by the way,

744
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,680
that your company, not that you
set out to do this, it not that

745
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:02,320
it's a great idea, but you might
end up being the place where the

746
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,320
lawyers get their business,
right?

747
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:07,480
You could be the feeder system,
right?

748
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,200
If you scale it enough, there'll
be a certain amount of people

749
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,320
that just need a little bit more
complexity.

750
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,760
But you got them over the hump.
You got them over the hard part

751
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,720
actually starting to think and
do something about it.

752
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,800
And then you could get a
referral fee to to.

753
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,320
I mean, I'm sure you thought
about this, but it's not out of

754
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:29,120
the.
Question right.

755
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:34,920
So there is a ethical issue with
referral fees for lawyers.

756
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,320
There's guidelines about how you
can or cannot split fees with

757
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,240
non attorneys that are, you
know, it's a client attorney

758
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:43,680
privilege.
There's a lot of rules around

759
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,880
that.
And there are there's some

760
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,360
workarounds that I'm thinking
about.

761
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,920
And you know, at this point what
I tell the lawyers that I send

762
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,560
clients to is, hey, look, I'm
going to export my users data

763
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,600
with their permission for you.
So you can not have to ask them

764
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,400
all the same questions that they
already gave me all the context

765
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,360
to in return, can you please
give them a discount, right?

766
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:07,840
Because I can't take that
discount.

767
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,960
There's there's some ethical
issues there.

768
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:12,320
So I'm working through this
right now.

769
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:13,720
I'm trying to figure out what to
do.

770
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,520
Maybe I'll have to be acquiring
a law firm.

771
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:20,200
Maybe.
Acquire a law firm.

772
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,640
Like I'm not here to split the
hairs on the legal issues with

773
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:28,840
you, but for example, there are
tons of law firms that advertise

774
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:35,320
on TV and pay to do the
advertising to get the leads to

775
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,080
the like mesothemolonial,
whatever the asbestos cancer is,

776
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,960
whatever it is, you know that I
don't think that's a Gray area.

777
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,200
But anyway, we're not, I'm not
here to give legal advice

778
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:48,880
either.
But you know, there's, you know,

779
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,680
we have a a friend that does
mitigation finance and he'll go

780
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:58,200
on and pay for the ads to get
identify the people that need

781
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:03,920
litigation and then sell them
leads to the law firm and then

782
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,560
finance the litigation because
he's got a bucket of money,

783
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,000
right?
So, yeah, but he's also a law

784
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,800
firm, so that like, you know,
professional.

785
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,400
Yeah, there are, there are rules
around non lawyers being limited

786
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,640
partners at law firms, but the,
you know, the personally injury

787
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,320
field industry has opened up a
lot of these because, well,

788
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,160
private equity moved into
personal injuries and with

789
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:28,600
private equity, everything
changes.

790
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:32,320
And so I am very aware of some
of the possibilities and I am

791
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,720
very focused on building the
user experience right now.

792
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,200
But you know, truthfully, a lot
of these companies, one way we

793
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,920
can grow is to work with every
credit union in the country,

794
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,440
right?
We can just offer it to their

795
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,400
users.
And I've seen models where Trust

796
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,000
and will I, I think most of the
traffic comes from affiliate

797
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,400
deals, mid market banks and
things like that.

798
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,680
At least that's the public
available data of their website

799
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,600
traffic.
And so I am studying them and

800
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,560
understanding where the revenue
sources are.

801
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,560
I think I am a little bit
different.

802
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,480
I want to say I'm different from
them because I estate planning

803
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,400
is not my end goal.
It's a product that is very

804
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,600
tangible.
My end goal really is to help

805
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,560
people live their life to the
fullest.

806
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,640
And whatever those products look
like in the future, it's going

807
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,040
to be part of the company in
some form or another.

808
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:30,520
Does the process produce a work
product, like, for example, the

809
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,720
storytelling that you now have
from your mother for the heirs

810
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:38,760
as well?
We will be building that part of

811
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,080
the product in two fold. 1 is
more of the family nostalgia

812
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,880
side of it, the family archives
in some ways.

813
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,520
The second part of it is what
happens when someone pass,

814
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,920
right?
There's a lot of things to do.

815
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,600
I I'm still going through this
right now.

816
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,680
And the reason why I'm very
clear about this is we have a

817
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:58,160
trust.
We have attorneys and

818
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:00,760
accountants and still there's so
much work.

819
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,320
So I can't even imagine what
it's like if somebody has to go

820
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,880
through probate, you know, and
like this entire process is

821
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,600
quite stressful and
overwhelming.

822
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,440
And so we will be building those
tools right after we figure out

823
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:18,360
this estate planning site.
I don't know the nuances of the

824
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,280
California inheritance law, but
is there a way to avoid aside

825
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:28,080
from the trust?
There's been a lot of talk over

826
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:32,160
the years about avoiding probate
and how you do it.

827
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,000
Is a living trust or living will
or something like that?

828
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:37,480
Is that also available in
California?

829
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,600
It is available in fact
California.

830
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:43,040
I think it's one of the more,
the easier states to set up a

831
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,640
revocable trust, which
essentially is a entity or

832
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,760
container that holds all your
assets.

833
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:54,720
And instead of passing it on
when somebody dies, the trustees

834
00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:58,360
of this entity gets to take it
from the entity.

835
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,560
And the challenge there for most
people that I want to, I don't

836
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,640
know what the exact data is, but
a lot of people who created the

837
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:08,160
trust never end up properly
funding the trust.

838
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,640
So they didn't move the deed
into the trust.

839
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,680
There's all these things.
You have to retitle everything,

840
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,080
yeah.
Exactly.

841
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,480
And then the county assessor,
you know, will write to you.

842
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,360
As you know, I have this right
here.

843
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:23,960
Look, it's a county assessor of
Los Angeles asking me why I'm

844
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,120
moving something around.
And so all these things are even

845
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,800
for someone who's living in this
topic, it's a lot.

846
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,760
And so I can't imagine you know
someone who's avoiding this

847
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,640
topic.
Yeah, totally.

848
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:43,240
Well, I think that it's a noble
task to help people get started

849
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:49,640
because it's, it's, it's a not
only a daunting task to get it

850
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:53,440
started and then finish it
because you have to think about

851
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,360
who's the trustees, who's the
guardian of the kids, who, I

852
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,960
mean, holy shit, right.
It's like, there's a lot to

853
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:03,040
think about.
And you know, I've seen so many

854
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:07,600
estate plans that sit on the
shelf for two years before

855
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,960
anybody decides who they're
going to have to do the be the

856
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,360
trustee or the guardian, right?
Because they're just, you know,

857
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,240
thinking about it.
We are, we are combating

858
00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:21,400
inaction.
You know, my biggest competition

859
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,200
is an action.
It's human nature that is

860
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,440
dealing with a topic that is not
urgent and not top of mind.

861
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,240
Until it is right, until it's,
until it's everything.

862
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:37,280
Do you have titles?
If you imagine you have, you've

863
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,080
dressed like titling insurance
properly and keeping it out of

864
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,640
these stage and all that kind of
stuff.

865
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,760
Yeah, we're actually exploring
to build a way where, you know,

866
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,360
for example, if you have a child
Schwab account or one of the

867
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,600
fidelity, those things actually
don't go through probate.

868
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:56,120
They have a beneficiary
designation and so they don't

869
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,000
even have to touch the court.
The the issue though is that a

870
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,600
lot of people don't update
those.

871
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,200
And so we're trying to work out
a authentication tool so that

872
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,080
our app can speak to, let's say
child Schwab and just update

873
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,840
these things.
Yeah, it's an API to update

874
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:15,160
these things, tiny right now, so
I can't imagine Charles Schwab

875
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,200
entertaining us, but we'll get
there.

876
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,400
So I think it's going to be good
for the whole ecosystem to have

877
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:21,720
it.
Yeah.

878
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,960
I want to touch a little bit on
something before we wrap up.

879
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:28,760
That, I think is really
important, that you learn

880
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,200
working with the folks at the
Headhunter.

881
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,920
I keep home Headhunter, but I'm
not sure that's a proper term.

882
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,480
But I don't really care.
I've interviewed a lot of the

883
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,720
very interesting tech
entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley

884
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:45,960
and elsewhere, and building the
team, as your friend told you,

885
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,280
is crucial.
And the competition in Silicon

886
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,640
Valley is brutal because you've
got people throwing a lot of

887
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:55,360
money around, right?
How have you?

888
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:59,560
One of the people I interviewed
was Ahmad that was Co founder of

889
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:00,960
Mercury.
You know Mercury.

890
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,320
The bank.
The neobank, Yeah.

891
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,200
Yep, I think I used them for one
of my.

892
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,240
Startups, yeah, we definitely
use them.

893
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:11,960
We we love them.
We've got a little partnership

894
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,720
going on with them.
But I interviewed him and he

895
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:18,520
said multiple times and I and I
know him personally, so it's not

896
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,840
like it's a big surprise.
But the reason he's been able to

897
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:26,480
pull it off is because of the
teams that he's been able to

898
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,680
cobble together that not only
have technical skills, but the

899
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:35,600
sentiment from the top down for
the company has worked like he's

900
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,200
done a really good job.
Have you experienced that even

901
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:44,960
in the size of your company?
I think talent is everything.

902
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,800
I, I know I've said that before.
I've, I've always been shocked

903
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,680
by what people would give up to
do a job.

904
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:56,000
So, you know, there's, there's
six forms of compensation.

905
00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:00,520
I know we normally think of it
as like cash and equity, but

906
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,360
cash and equity is really just
one of it.

907
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,720
There's also the aspect of
learning, you know, depending on

908
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:07,880
age and interest, learning is
huge.

909
00:50:08,240 --> 00:50:11,000
There's personal brand, which is
someone's pedigree.

910
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,040
So someone who went to Harvard
or Penn or Stanford or worked at

911
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,880
Google or worked at Bain, that's
the pedigree and the title and

912
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:20,040
the companies.
And then there's a

913
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,880
relationships.
If I can, I would keep every

914
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,680
engineer I've ever worked with
close to me and bring them along

915
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,600
to every project that I work on
because those relationships and

916
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,200
team chemistry is kind of
replaceable.

917
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,040
And then we kind of move down to
there's fun and fulfillment,

918
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,400
which is one thing, and then
there's legacy, right?

919
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:43,760
I think my company is probably a
bit of a mix of the legacy of

920
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:47,240
my, one of my engineers who's
doing our AI.

921
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:50,760
He lost his father a year, a
year before I lost my mom.

922
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,640
And so in one of our first phone
calls, we aligned on this, on

923
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,440
how important it is to have
these things.

924
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:59,920
And so the ability to convince
someone to join you on your

925
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:03,680
journey, I think is the secret
sauce for founder.

926
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:11,000
Yeah, yeah, I've, I've learned
I'm a terrible person to hire

927
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,520
people.
So I don't like I'm the worst.

928
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,080
I have 30 operating companies
and I don't manage any of them

929
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,840
because I know I'm really bad at
it.

930
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,680
But I managed to find people who
run them that I'm good at.

931
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,040
But and part of it, I think was
the perspective that I couldn't

932
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:29,120
imagine myself ever working for
anybody.

933
00:51:29,440 --> 00:51:32,800
But I just don't have that chip,
right.

934
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,640
I mean, and we work for people
every day in the context of

935
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,680
making sure we get things done
that we promised to do.

936
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:49,200
But I never had this employee E
employee relationship thing and

937
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,880
that I, I ever felt comfortable
with.

938
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:57,120
But anyway, I think that being
able to identify and hire the

939
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,640
right people is a huge, huge
skill set.

940
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,480
And, you know, congratulations
on being able to do that.

941
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,720
I would sometimes argue that
people skills are is really the

942
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:10,360
only thing that I'm really,
really good at.

943
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,440
And I think that's sometimes
enough, yeah.

944
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,720
So tell everybody how it's
really airlight.com, right?

945
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,240
Airlight.com HEIRLIGHT.
The name came from air, you

946
00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:27,960
know, with the whole theme of
estate planning and Lite,

947
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,680
something that shows clarity.
So air light.

948
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:34,640
Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Well, we have to wrap it up, but

949
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:38,120
I'm super happy we were able to
do this and thank you, Jermaine,

950
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,400
for spending the time with us
today.

951
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:44,440
It's really fascinating stuff.
Thank you for having me on.

952
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,600
You're welcome.
And everybody, if you're

953
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,160
interested in connecting with
Jeremy, I'm sure you'd be happy

954
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:54,200
to do that and take a look at
the website and really, really

955
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:55,920
appreciate your insights,
Jermaine.

956
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:57,880
You're welcome.
Thanks everybody for joining us

957
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,240
today.