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Nov. 17, 2021

Transcript: Episode 11: The Insiders (season 1 Finale) Pt 2

Transcript: Episode 11: The Insiders (season 1 Finale) Pt 2

 

Note this is the second half of the transcript, if you missed the first part, go here:

 

Amy

Which brings us to, back in 2000. Sometime I think it was around 2000.  I had a friend who was working at First Avenue and there was a committee that was being started. Well, this is when I had my music blog Collected Sounds and this friend of mine said, “oh, I think you should be on this committee. 

I'll give you the name of the guy that's running it” and his name was Steve McClellan and anybody who knows music in Minneapolis, well, anywhere, knows Frist Ave knows who this guy is. I went to the meetings and it just ended up being like, well, all they really wanted you to do is go to the shows and like sit at the door and hand out flyers and stuff

 

Heather

Right. 

 

And I didn't want to do that so I kind of backed out. Of that, but I met the guy and he was really nice. And so when I was looking on Facebook for stuff he commented about can on one of these threads. And so I was like, wait a minute. I know him so I sent him an email and I said you probably don't remember me. But I saw that you commented on this Kid Cann thread on Facebook and I am doing this podcast and I want to know if you know anything and he was like “Oh yeah, I know some stuff. Like what do you want?” and I go, “Anything? I'll take anything, anything!” so he sent me this email and… I'll just read you the email he said:

 

 I was born in 1950.  Thus, I was only a toddler or in grade school when the Minneapolis liquor licenses were controlled by the "Jewish mafia" of the time - Isadore Blumenfeld aka Kid Cann and one of his "henchmen", Abe Percansky…

 

Heather

Oh Abe

 

 

Amy

Yeah, Old Abe, “just prior to the city closing down the Flame Bar in the late 70's.  I did NOT know about the club's or Abe's history in regards to the Kid Cann era.

 

   I was involved in the political scene in college and learned that Hubert Humphrey was given credit for "chasing" Kid Cann out of town, but even later learned (all third hand information and some "reading" books on the subject) - that Hubert Humphrey actually received financial support from Blumenfeld when he was mayor of Minneapolis (and part of Blumenfeld getting to leave town and live a comfortable retirement in Florida was part of Humphreys' pay back). So then he’s like

“Anyway, when I met with Abe Percansky…” and I was like you what?

 

And he said: 

 

“the Flame was in decline and bringing in an audience "not desirable" to the community according to the City officials at the time.  Basically, downtown did NOT want black audiences to get comfortable and venues like the Flame and other bars bringing in black clientele were forced to close.

 

“Since I started to bartend and then manage a club called Uncle Sam’s [Heather laughs] in the early 70's (we later changed the name to First Avenue in the early 80's) –

 

Amy

I'm like Oh yeah, I think I've heard of that. [Heather laughs]

 

 

“I did this during and after I stopped taking classes at the U of M. I got more involved in the "history" of downtown nightclubs.  Good read is Augie's Secrets published by the University Press about the downtown nightclubs and mafia influences.”

 

Amy

which I've referred to this book before, I read it. It's super entertaining. The guy is a good writer. It's really fun to read. However, I've also heard that most of it's not true, but whatever, it's a fun read. 

 

 

He said, “Anyway, most of my knowledge about Kid Cann is later history that I read or heard third hand from sources that either were involved in downtown business or Minneapolis political circles.”

 

Amy

So then I was so excited that he met Abe Percansky, I wanted to know more about that. So I asked him about that and he said. 

 

“So when I met Abe, I actually sympathized with his exclamation of why the city was revoking his liquor license from early Uncle Sam's days. I realized the downtown business establishment, the Minneapolis Police Department, and the city leaders of the time” and he puts all this in in Caps “DID NOT WANT BLACK AUDIENCES DOWNTOWN. The flame had started to fill with the quote funky crowd that lived in the neighborhood back in the early 70s. Nicollet Ave, South of downtown was not a highbrow neighborhood.”

 

Heather

Oh gosh. 

 

Amy

“I specifically remember Abe saying something to the effect. All I have done to survive in this venue is adapt to the neighborhood. The city has handed me over the years.”

 

And I knew nothing about this. I mean, I knew about the flame and it was. It did have a lot of black acts would come in like famous famous black people came in and played at the Flame and what I had heard was that the audience was were very diverse that there was a lot of black people there. But there were also a lot of white people. Especially Jewish people so I could see why they you know like to have their spot. So yeah, that's I was upsetting to me to find out that that, that that was happening back then, but it not surprising, not at all. But unfortunate anyway. 

 

Heather

So we have a couple other responses. 

 

Amy

OK, so this next one is one that I gave Heather to read, and I just noted that I am super dense. I read this. I probably read it five times and it still doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know how any of this would have impacted this person’s life. Maybe somebody else can figure it out. Maybe Heather, you'll understand it a little bit better. 

 

Heather

OK, so this is what they wrote “these mugs once did my father a favor which greatly benefited as it turned out a very young at the time, me. All I know is a certain divorce case was being held up in court. My dad was being bled dry. The details of this case were divulged during a legitimate business discussion, and a solution was offered to which my horrified Dad said something like are you nuts get the hell out of here? Nevertheless, weeks later my dad case was mysteriously moved to head of the docket. He prevailed and my life was changed forever. 

 

Amy

 I mean, it sounds like his Parents were getting divorced. And his dad was getting all the money taken away from him. 

 

Heather

Yep

 

Amy

And these ‘mugs’ must have found out something derogatory about the mother, right?

 

Heather

Right, well, it says the details of the case were divulged during a legitimate business discussion. 

So maybe his father was a business associate of Izzy. 

 

Amy

Yeah, maybe.

 

Heather

….and helped him out. 

 

Amy

It sounds to me like they had to have gotten some dirt on the mother

 

Heather

Wife, yeah.

 

Amy

In order for the dad to have had the for the trial to be finished and sent him to. 

 

Heather

“My dad case was mysteriously moved to head of the docket. He prevailed and my life was changed forever.” Wow, yeah there's not a lot of detail there. I wonder if that poor guy ever saw his mother again.

 

Amy

yeah, I know. Well maybe he didn't want to, maybe? She was a ne'er-do-well.

 

Heather

And then we have another one “had drinks with Kid Cann way back in the day. Don't even remember if we were old enough to drink. We had heard the name but didn't know all the background, so we weren't too impressed. Just some old guy who bought us a drink.”

kind of cool.

 

Amy

I mean that tracks 'cause he was always looking at young ladies and chat and chatting him up and stuff. 

 

Heather

And then we have another person who says I lived a block away from him on Oakland Avenue on Halloween. His maid would answer the door and give a bag of candy to each kid.”

I guess as a. Kid, you would remember something like that. 

 

Amy

Of course

 

Heather

Everybody likes the candy. 

Another guy, Alan he says “I used to shine kid can shoes in front of Addison Bar on Franklin Avenue. 

He always tipped you well.”

And then someone quite succinctly just posted “piece of shit.” 

[laughter]

OK then that's what you think all right. 

 

Amy

Yeah, I could just see that guy type “piece of shit” send! 

 

Heather

I actually I won't, well you can cut this out, but I commented on an Aaron Rodgers post today. 

(Amy, I'm just talking to you) and  I just threw a ‘piece of shit’ and I and I hadn't even read this yet! 

 

Amy

[laughter]I think we should leave that in. 

 

Heather:  You can! 

 

Amy: He is a piece of shit.  Lying about being vaccinated, the turd and then getting sick and hopefully didn’t get anyone else sick. Dumb fucker.

 

Heather

Right! 

 

Amy

Anyway, OK, here's another one that said, “I heard he had something to do with Sunset Memorial Gardens Cemetery sold cemetery plots to people then. We sold the same plots to someone else. Wonder if this is true and what did they do with the bodies that were. Supposed to be buried?” 

 

Well, I looked into this. I looked in the newspapers.com, I did regular Google searches. I couldn't find anything about a story about this coming out. Maybe it never came out, but maybe it never happened either. But Sunset Memorial Gardens does have a Facebook page and all the reviews are negative. Terrible customer service. 

 

Heather

Oh wow, and didn't you visit? Didn't you visit Izzy at the cemetery this week? 

 

Amy

I did, but that not that cemetery he's at the Adath Yeshurun. 

 

Heather

Oh OK, OK. 

 

Amy

Uhm, there's one more word, and I don't think it’s just cemetery. Anyway, I did. I went out. I had to go to Edina to renew my driver's license and I took the long way 'cause I don't like. I didn't have a driver's license on my way out, it was expired. So, uhm, so I drove, I didn’t want to get on 100 'cause I'm like what if I get pulled over so I took the long way and went down France Ave, Xerxes and France. And I was like, oh, the cemetery is coming up. And I don't know if I mentioned this. Did we talk about this before? I don't think we did

 

 

Heather

I don’t know, we tried to go a couple weeks ago

 

Amy

 not last weekend but the weekend before? 

 

Heather

Oh I think we did mention this.

 

Amy

And it was closed?

 

Heather

We tried to go a couple weeks ago. Oh, I think we did mention this actually, but yeah, it was a it was a Jewish holiday. 

 

Amy

OK, and that it was closed. Yeah, it's a…. 

 

Heather

And we didn't realize the cemetery would be closed. 

 

Amy

…Sabbath, and we're I'm too dumb to realize that that it was closed. 

 

Heather

Oh, it's a Sabbath, yeah. 

 

Amy

So uhm, anyway, yeah so I'm driving by there and I couldn't stop on my way out because I was getting to be late for my appointment, but on the way back I was like I'm just going to pop in and see if I can find him and I didn't have any of my notes with me. I didn't, I didn't know where he was in there so I just got in. It's a really cute cemetery. It's real hilly, little tiny road to drive around, and I drove all the way around and then I was like, you know this is stupid, I'm going to pull over and just Google. Where is he buried and I found it section three row one, 4th grave from the left. 

So I I parked and I got out and I walked over and I almost didn't see the grapes because they are literally like. I don't know what's that like. A foot wide, maybe 14 inches wide, 8 inches tall. They're really small little markers which I found interesting because they were pretty wealthy. There are very small markers and most of them are grown over. They were, you know. There was of course it’s fall… 

 

Heather

Right, you said you cleared it off for him. 

 

Amy

… so I cleaned them. I was trying to take video and so I did clean him with my foot and then I was like, oh, I wonder if that's like bad to do that like to not clean him off with your hands. I don't know. Anyway, I did clean off some of it with my hands too but. Uhm, but so I cleaned off the…. so it was. Morris Fogel and Blanche Fogel. Blanche is Lillian sister, so it was Morris and Blanche and then Isadore and Lillian. And then I believe next to them was Ann and Sam Shink, who Ann is his sister and then down the way a little bit further, was Yiddy Bloom and his wife Verna. I couldn't find Harry.  I didn't, I mean, I just they weren't in that section. Right and then there was another section of other people with different names that I didn't know, but there was a there was a something in the ground. I don't know how you describe it. It's not a headstone, but it was like a little planter kind of thing and it had some dead flowers in it. Uhm, but and that said, Blumenfeld on the bottom or Blumenfield on the bottom, his grave and Lillian both say Blumenfield. And everybody else is Bloom or whatever their other real name was. Yiddy and Verna’s graves were clean. They had been somebody taking care of those, but everybody else is were all grown over. 

 

Heather

That's really interesting. I wonder who those? Maybe probably their….

 

Amy

Yeah, the kids kids have kids or something. 

 

Heather

Kids. 

 

Amy

Yeah, somebody in the family is probably keeping track of that.  Or maybe there's maybe that that there was some kind of like maybe they paid extra when he was buried to say keep it clean. [Heather laughs] I don't know. I assume you can do that, I don't know. So yeah, that was fun and I think we should go back 'cause there's other people there that I want to see. And you probably want to see? 

 

Amy

It so yeah, yeah we we'll go back again some Sunday. 

 

Heather

And we get to go out and eat lunch in Edina.

 

Amy

Exactly, yeah, 'cause we had a good brunch at Edina Grill. 

 

Heather

And I know which is always fun. 

 

Amy

Bloody Marys and everything. OK, so then the next one I found was some somebody wrote. 

Seen on the wall of a men's restroom in Ford Hall Philosophy Department, University of Minnesota, circa 1967. “Immanuel Kant. But Kid Cann.” 

 

Heather

[laughsl Ah, that's awesome. Oh, I like that. 

So another comment we have here is “my grandmother would talk about working for Kid Cann. Making shoe box deliveries for him and his cohorts. I remember her saying that she never looked inside the shoe boxes, but she figured it was stacks of money.”

 

Amy

It probably was. Remember back in the Excelsior scandal, Excelsior Baking scandal and they said that they had to pay Kid Cann and his cohort Joey, Schwartz or Swartz maybe? Uhm, that they paid them in cash that was in, like paper bags. 

 

Heather

It's interesting that they would hire a young girl to go around and do that, 'cause it. It's kind of dangerous to walk around with that amount of money. I would think, and you're carrying a shoebox, I mean. It's kind of suspicious and draw attention. 

 

Amy

But you know, at least it's going to no one going to look at a little girl walking around with a shoe box where a businessman was walking around the shoe box, especially if he's part of the syndicate… 

 

Heather

Another one wrote. “My sister lives in his house. Found some prohibition alcohol bottles in the wall when remodeling.”

 

Amy

So fun. I know I love it. 

 

Heather

And then we have. “When I was a kid, my mom had told me about a time my great grandpa had told her that my great grandma and my grandpa had been robbed in their house by Kid Cann. I don't know a lot of details about the situation, but saw this and that story brought me back.”

Uhm, so we haven't found any proof that he ever did house robberies. 

 

Amy

No, I it doesn't seem like his jam. 

 

Heather

It doesn't seem like his style at all. Uhm, you know he might have known people who robbed houses, but yeah. You know? 

 

Someone else wrote “my grandfather’s first job was working in one of Cann’s, Kid Cann’s places bar backing. His name wasn't on the liquor license, but everybody knew who it belonged to.” 

Not surprising. 

 

Amy

You can say the name of this one. 

 

Heather

See Facebook OK, Steve Polski. Right, “Harry had a very large house on France Ave when I was growing up on Halloween. He gave out quarter candy bars when everyone else gave out nickel candy bars when I grew up he had dinner with me on many Sundays at the market barbecue.” 

 

Amy

The Polski's owned the market barbecue. 

 

Heather

Wow, OK. I used to live near the market, barbecue and frequented it myself. But yes, two people made Halloween comments about the amount of candy he gave out. 

So interesting. 

 

Amy

I thought so too.

 

Heather 

Next we have “my grandfather was Abe ‘Brownie’ Brownstein. I would love to know more and willing to share my stories from my childhood. I met with Paul Maccabee once and he gave me information. My grandparents had a lake home in Detroit Lakes that we spent every summer there. If those walls could talk. Many of the locals have stories to tell. I loved my grandparents and they were normal people to me, but the excitement of the gangster days were over for them when I was growing up, but would love to know more.”

 

Amy

Yeah, I this when I saw this I was like you're Abe Brownie Brownstein’s granddaughter!

 

Heather

Right? 

 

Amy

and I did send her a message, but uhm, this comment was like 8 years ago or something on an old old thread, this wasn't on mine and so I sent her a message via Facebook and I did not hear anything back. I don't know if she's even still on Facebook or yeah. 

 

Heather

Well, eight, now she might not. Oh she might not be around anymore I don't know. 

 

Amy

Exactly, yeah. 

 

Heather

Uhm, we have another Facebook poster. “My great uncle came up from Waukesha to escape the poverty. He was 14 years and Kid Cann paid him to roll drunks. I don't know how long my uncle did that.” 

I don't know what roll drunks means, do you Amy? 

 

Amy

It means, uh 

 

Heather

So beat them up or… 

 

Amy

Knock them over and take their money. 

 

Heather

Or roll, Oh OK.

 

Amy

Yeah, or mug them. 

Which also doesn't sound like his style. Why would Kid Cann need to roll drunks to get money? 

 

Heather

And why would he pay a 14 year old? 

 

Amy

I don't know. I'm not saying the guy's lying, I'm just saying. 

 

Heather

You know, it's like a game of telephone. 

 

Amy

Exactly. 

 

Heather

you know the stories change once they're passed down from generation to generation, so. 

 

Amy

Well, in this other one, this is from somebody who calls himself Uggo Stinko which I thought was hilarious. Sent me an email and he said “

“Hey, I’m unsure how much you know about Isadore or Minneapolis already, so I’m going to give some general info my family and my studies told me.

The grave of Isadore is in Adath Yeshurun Cemetery. It’s just two rows from my great grandparents.

Fulton is a neighborhood in southwest Minneapolis, built to tap into the market of Blacks, Jews, Irish, Italian and other groups who were prohibited from buying land in neighboring Edina. There are old pics my family had of signs in parks saying "no blacks, Jews, Italians, Mexicans, dogs" “

 

It's crazy to me that they thought they were the same as dogs. [Heather laughs]

 

“Blumenfeld had connections who could make him fake permits for construction. We aren't sure if he did it for virtue or because he saw a profit in it.”

 

Heather

Probably saw profit in it. 

 

Amy

I'd say it's probably both

 

“Isadore built his first mansion using his fraudulent development connections although he built it in Linden Hills which is separated by Xerxes avenue and cornered by 50th Avenue. He built Fulton and named it after Fulton, the man who created the ferry…

 

Heather

What do you think that means? 

 

Amy

Uhm, it sounds to me like somebody named Fulton created the ferry boat and  Isadore named his neighborhood or his house, the area Fulton.…. 

 

Heather

  1.  

 

Amy

“Because it was a legal way to cover up a mobile Speakeasy, he ran.” 

So OK, now that I'm thinking about it mobile, speak easy…

 

Heather

Would that be a ferryboat? 

 

Amy

Yes, probably yes yes,

 

Heather

Like running a Speakeasy on a boat. 

 

Amy

Because uhm the rules were different on a boat. You know they weren't, I want to say that if the…

 

Heather

Right, well, I mean it's. 

 

Amy

…If the boat was on the water. 

 

Heather

It's like gambling, a lot of places where you, you know if you gamble on a boat, it's legal like you can take a ferry boat and once you get on to waters. Even if you're still in whatever city. You can do it on a boat. 

 

Amy

It's a different jurisdiction or whatever… different laws. 

 

Heather

Yep, Yep. 

 

Amy

That's what I think. 

“He was accused, but acquitted, of killing a taxi driver and in a different case, a newspaper writer.”

 

I just want to say everybody says that Charles Goldberg was a taxi driver and from what I could tell he was not. Abe Percansky was there and he's a taxi driver. Charles Goldberg was not a taxi driver. Or if he was, he wasn't driving taxi that night. I don't think he was a taxi driver, he was just a guy at the bar that was flirting with a girl…

 

Heather

No right. 

 

Amy

…but didn't like him flirting with a girl. Anyway, “but the newspaper writer was famous for busting open Blumenfeld criminal activities, but the court couldn't prove that Isadore himself killed the man. Isadore died in 1981 from a failing heart from old age. He moved there to be closer to Meyer Lansky” I think.

He left out the part that he was in Miami that he went to Miami, 'cause he says he moved there. 

I think he means Miami “to be close to Meyer Lansky and a growing population of Jewish retirees and ex gangsters. The Jewish population of Fulton has decreased as the taxes have skyrocketed over the last 12 years.”

 

Heather

It's a weird comment to make, but yeah, OK dude. 

 

Amy

OK, Uggo Stinko 

 

Heather

Oh so OK, we have another Facebook commenter regarding his nickname. He writes. “My grandfather used to tell me stories about Kid Cann. He told me one about how he got his name. The story goes that when he was young, he was in a place that got raided. He hid in the bathroom and didn't. Get caught. Hence the name Kid Cann I don't know if it's true, but I hope it is.”

 

[laughter]

Amy

Well, that certainly is the lore. That's what everybody says.

 

OK, and then I did….I was looking up his houses because so many people say I lived in kid can house. 

And and if that was two of everybody who said that he would had to move like every three weeks to have lived in all these homes. 

But what I've gathered is that his first adult home, when he didn't live with his parents anymore, was at 35th and Colfax. But I don't know the address for sure and I don't even know if it's north or South. 

 

And then his second home, his second adult home, was an apartment at 3948 1st Ave and I have pictures of all of these, so I don't know for the audio version of this. I'll probably just leave this stuff out and then we'll keep it in for the video so. Those watching the video version of this will be able to see the pictures that I have of these different homes. 

 

He also lived at 3417 W 38th. This is across the street from the Minnekahda Golf course. It's a really cute area.

 

And then he had a home at 2305 Mountview Avenue. Then 5900 Oakland, so the lore says that he built this house for his mother but never lived there. But author Paul Maccabee says that he lived there between 1957 and 1961, and the house was built in 1952 and I did confirm that that's when the house was built. I looked up Hennepin County records. So if the house was built in 1952. It would have been silly for him to let it sit there for 9 years with no one living in it. Because he was trying to sell it in 1959

 

Heather

Right? 

 

Amy

when he was going to leave town and they were like oh he's selling his house at 5900 Oakland He had never lived there, but I don't see how that's possible. I can't imagine he would build a house in there. Nobody would live there or he wouldn't live there. 

 

Heather

Right, that doesn't make sense, but. 

 

Amy

I don't know and then somebody on Facebook said “That beautiful stone house on Glenhurst was my refuge when my parents were fighting. The Blooms were wonderful to me and oh how I loved that beautiful house. Spent many hours over the years there with my dear friend and her parents. Her mom was the best cook in the world.”

 

Now I don't know if this is Harry and Verna, or Yiddy and Lenore Bloom. I know they both lived over there, but I don't know which one of them lived on Glenhurst, but everybody that I have heard talk about these guys say that Yiddy  Bloom was the nicest man in the world. Everybody loved Yiddy. And he was the baby brother. 

 

Heather

And maybe he married a great cook. 

 

Amy

Yeah, one of them did.

 

{break]
Amy

Somebody posted a picture of this group of people sitting at a table, and apparently it's at the Flame Bar, the same place we were talking about. 

 

Heather

Yep

 

Amy

And she said “here's a picture of Kid Cann seated with my son in law's grandparents Kid Cann is the man on the far right. My son in law's grandmother is seated. Next to him on his right. We know it was taken in the Flame Room nightclub, but not sure of the approximate year.”

 

And then I asked her if I could use it for our purposes put it in the blog and stuff and she said yes. 

And so I think, for those of you who are listening, not watching, you'll have to check the blog. 

But he is in this picture and I can tell which one see me second from the right and it looks like him. 

And it's a really cool picture of these people all in their like fancy outfits sitting around a table and he's just sitting there with his arm around the woman next to him, which I think is Lillian, although it doesn't really look like her, but it probably is. And so, I'll put that up on all the socials and stuff. It's a great picture. 

 

Heather

Yeah, they are having a good time. 

 

Amy

Oh, to be alive back then. 

 

So I think we're going to end on a nice note. 

Do you want to read this one? 

 

Heather

OK, sure. 

Looks like this is from the Minneapolis Star Tribune, July 5th, 1981. A week or so after he died. ‘Kid Cann was Caring’ is the headline. “Thanks Rabbi Max Shapiro for being kind enough to mention Isadore Blumenfeld’s generosity and kindness. Tribune, June 24th. His friends present company included, remember. I was a waitress at the Kennesaw drugstore in the 50s and 60s when he would send those these poor fellows into the drugstore and tell us to give them all they could eat and he would pick up the tab. Or the fellows would come in nice and clean with a fresh haircut and shave they got at the Barber school. He would pick up the tab. If I were an author and all the people he helped out would give their little stories. I would have a best seller. My condolences to the family for the loss of one great guy. 

And that was Elsie and Minneapolis. 

 

Amy

You know, it's funny that she said that about, you know if people would if she was an author and if people would help out. So, Greg and I were out at happy hour last night and a guy came in that we've known for a long time. He's a regular, and he listens to the podcast and he said he thinks that I should write a book. 

 

Heather

About this or OK. 

 

Amy

About Kid Cann and about all of this and I was like, I'm not a writer. 

And he said, “I think you are and I think you can do it and I think you should.” 

And I was like, yeah yeah, whatever and he would not let it go.” You need to write a book.” 

And then Greg and I talked about another way home and I was like, well, I've learned that I'm a shitty writer because I was taking this class on Coursera and apparently, I don't know how to do anything right. Because I got shitty grades and whatever, but that's all Peer review you know. So nobody wants to really…

 

Heather:

Right? 

 

Amy

Then I had one person that was honest and like gave me actual critique and actual feedback. 

Everybody else was just like, just gave me zeros without saying why. But The thing is, with Coursera a lot of this stuff is people just come, they cheat. Basically, they you can't see other people stories unless you put in one of your own and so they just put in like a 1 and then submit it and then they're able to see other people stories and then they copy them and submit them as their own. So, Greg assured me that I really shouldn't take my experience on Coursera as a word-fact that I can't write. So, we'll see. I don't know. I mean, it would be really fun to write a book. But yeah, I would need people to talk to me. 

And that's hard. 

 

Heather

It is especially with someone who's been dead for 40 years. 

 

Amy

Yeah, yeah. Especially when it's stuff people don't really want to talk about, you know or they're scared to talk about. But yeah, it sure would be fun. Sure it would be fun. 

 

Heather

So I missed an opportunity when I think. When you sent me the script earlier today. 

You were gonna you were this was, I think you're one of your sources and it says “when they were in Florida she told me he would get upset at her mother's dog barking...”

 

Amy

oh Yeah,

 

Heather

…and I was worried that he didn't like dogs, so I asked and she said no, that's not it. He just knew that the barking was bothering neighbors.” And I was going to comment that everything that is he did. And you're worried that he doesn't like dogs? With all of…

 

Amy

Well of course I am. I love dogs. 

 

Heather

I know, but he's probably a murderer and all,

 

Amy

But does he like dogs? 

 

Heather

…but he doesn't like dogs. 

And then I was going to talk about with all your in-depth research and just throwing everything into all of this, but maybe you have a little bit of Stockholm Syndrome where you're sympathizing with a criminal. 

 

Amy

Yeah, I might be… because the people that I spoke to. Knew him as just a regular cool guy

 

Heather

Right, right,

 

Amy

…and because you know, he says 90% of what's written about him is bullshit.

 

Heather

Maybe it is. 

 

Amy

Maybe maybe it is, and maybe he…I mean certainly he was a criminal -- that much we know. I don't know that he murdered anybody. I don't know that he beat up anybody. I don't know that he robbed anybody. He might have. But if he didn't like dogs, that would make it so much worse. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up 'cause I forgot to. Even I forgot to add that part but yeah. 

 

Heather

I know that I in my notes. I wrote haha. Of course she's worried about the dogs, it's Amy! 

 

Amy

That’s me!

 

Heather

For those listeners who don't know, Amy has quite the menagerie over here. 

 

Amy

Which, yeah, maybe we'll leave that in when Greg had to go get Vivi and put her upstairs. 

Yeah, our food came and so they all lost their damn minds. 

 

So thank you everybody for listening to us for 11 episodes now hopefully you have listened to 11 episodes. 

I hope that you stay subscribed and we'll be able to see some of the stuff we're doing in between and then pick up with us in Season Two: Single Barrel Theory. 

 

Heather

Yeah, very excited for season 2. When do you think those will drop, Amy? 

 

Amy

I'm thinking well. I'm going to say February, just because I don't want to push it. It would be nice if we could get him out in January, but I know that you and I are both going to be really busy with holidays and stuff like that, so I don't know that we're going to have a whole lot of time to get together to record. Maybe we will. 

 

Heather

And we'll probably record before then, but. Maybe release them in February. 

 

Amy

Yeah, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. So I'd like to get a couple of them done before we… 

 

Heather

  1.  

 

Amy

…get started so that we're not like, Oh my God, we have to record this week and I haven't done anything. You know, like I have been doing all this season so I want to get ahead of it this time so yeah.

 

Heather

awesome. 

 

Amy

Alright, well thank you everybody. Good night and. 

 

Heather

Okie doke 

 

Amy

Okie doke 

 

Amy

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Volsteadland. 

Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode and visit us on all of our social media platforms for extra content. 

 

[outro theme]

Volsteadland is produced by me, Amy at Whimsical Productions and as part of the Collected Sounds Network. Thanks for listening. Okie doke!