Caring For Loved Ones With Dementia - A Better Approach With Cyndy Luzinski

I'm sure I'm sure there's, there's a few big ones. So what are some of the myths that you can talk about? And what are some of people's greatest fears around dementia?

2

I think I alluded to one of them. And I think the biggest myth is that if somebody gets a dementia related diagnosis, that's off.

It's over.

DM

Welcome. I'm Dawn Mathis, and this is to your greatness. Every day you give so much of yourself to those you love. Through this podcast, I'll guide you want to journey to reawaken the greatness that lies within you. In each episode, you'll hear incredible stories of transformation for me, and my guests that will inspire you to design and manifest a life that is in harmony with your soul's purpose. You are meant to live the life you'd love. Let me show you how. Well welcome everybody. This is to your greatness, with Don Mathis, and I am dawn Mathis with Institute life works. And here with me today is Cindy lozinski. Hi, Cindy. Hi. So I wanted to tell you a little bit about Cindy, but let me give you the title of our podcast today. First, it's caring for loved ones with dementia, a better approach. So stay tuned and hold on to your seats. So Cindy lozinski is the founder and the executive director of dementia together formerly dementia friendly communities of Northern Colorado. She is an advanced practice nurse, certified dementia practitioner and the only accredited speckle coach in North America, as credentialed by the contented dementia trust in England. She is a strong advocate for community collaboration, and dedicates her life to helping people discover that living well with dementia is entirely possible. So before we get started, I just wanted to let people know that Cindy has helped me and my family with our journey with my mom who who has dementia. And she has helped us immensely and has helped my my stepdad immensely just trying to navigate living with my mom, which can sometimes be challenging. But the techniques that she can tell us about and, and her education that she'll talk about will be very helpful. So if you're not driving a car, when you're listening to this, I would love for you to write down some of the classes she has coming up. But we will also have those for you in the show notes at the end of the podcast. Okay, well, Cindy, Tell me your story about how you came to to this work?

2

Well, I'll start in a minute, I want to just congratulate you on your new podcast. That's very exciting. So thank you for having me as a guest. I'm always happy to talk to anybody about dementia, but especially you and I'm excited for your work. Oh, well,

DM

thank you so much. Thank you, and you're you're you're an inspiration for me, because I've known you for quite some time and, and and just your level of wanting to to help people and serve. It's just a credit to the human race and I just aspire to be as as serving as you are. So Okay, enough of the mush.

2

Okay. Okay, my story. All right. Yeah. My background is nursing, as you said, and I kind of have run the gamut of types of nursing I've done but I was out in the community, doing community case management, probably a decade or more ago. And that was when I went home to Wisconsin to see my dad who was a brilliant trout researcher for the state of Wisconsin. And his he said to me when I was visiting him one day that he couldn't multitask. He couldn't focus. And he felt like he was living in a fog. And that was a defining moment in my life where I thought, here I am, this nurse working in the geriatric community, and my dad is now headed down the dimension road, and I didn't know what that meant at the time. But what it meant for me was I was gonna learn everything I possibly could about dementia care because my dad really lived well, and it became this overriding passion for me to help him finish well. So that led me to meeting a lady in the UK named Penny Garner, who developed what's called the speckle method, or there's a book written about it called contented dementia. And so I, I had to read that book on the plane, before she would even meet with me. And then we met at a bakery in London, and she shared the method with me for several hours. And from there, that made me realize that I could do something right now to help dad be okay. And and then I wanted to share it with everybody, because because her approach is a disability management model. It's not that tragedy narrative that we often hear that, oh, you have dementia, that's awful. And how are you ever going to do this? Or it's not even kind of the opposite extreme of, well, if you do A, B, C, and D, it can get better. And it's none of that. It's like, Okay, you've got this disability where you aren't recalling recent facts? How can we get the people around you to respond accordingly so that it's not awful, so that you can live well. And so the approach is a family driven, person directed model, the person with dementia directs what we do. But the family is the one that kind of holds the keys to helping their loved one live well, and you know, that from as I've been working with you and your and your family, that we have to listen to your mom, the expert, she knows how she has to cope with that story in recent backs. And you guys are learning to go with her, using whatever facts make sense to her. And, and when family start early, learning some strategies, primarily listening to their loved one. It can really help that person just live with lifelong well being. I think sometimes people wait till it's been so traumatic and difficult. I mean, it's harder to intervene at that point, but you guys have started early with trying to help your mom stay. Okay. And that's going to bode well, for her and for all of you.

DM

No, thank you. Thank you. So tell us, tell us a little bit about, about your journey about about your business and what your focus your your vision, your mission is just to give us a clear picture of, of what it is you're doing, the great work you're doing in the world. Well, kinda

2

took what I learned from Penny Garner and used it with my own dad, and then started to do support group and Memory Cafe here in Northern Colorado and shared the approach with them and and from that kind of has blossomed this. It started as a volunteer initiative in 2014. And it's become a nonprofit organization we used to, as you said, we used to be dementia friendly communities. Now we're dementia together, we just changed our name last July. And that name really does just fit who we are as a nonprofit organization, because our mission is that no one has to walk the dementia journey alone. Yeah, and to that end, we provide education in the community for professionals for family members, and we provide life enrichment for family members specifically and people living with dementia through our Memory Cafes and other social activities. So somebody so that's where we're at right now is that we're this nonprofit organization focusing on education enrichment and hope and hoping people can say that people can live well with dementia.

DM

So can you just just for the people out there who may not know what is a Memory Cafe

2

Oh, they're Memory Cafes are is they're so involved. There's both when we used to be able to meet in person. As of when COVID hit we had to change our in person Memory Cafes to online Of course, we have virtual Memory Cafes now, so people have to bring their own food. But otherwise it used to be its theme based for our for our Memory Cafes. So we have a different theme. Every month when we met in person now we do them every week because we meet virtually and we reminisce we play goofy trivia games. We listen, listen or watch clips. Have funny old shows, we sing songs or at least listen to music around that theme. Like maybe back to school or lessons I learned from Grandma, or St. Patrick's Day. I mean, just whatever the theme might be. And we say whatever the theme is, regardless of that, the agenda is joy. And so that's great. Have the gatherings are anywhere from eight to 20. Some people, typically. And we just have fun. And it's a place where people with dementia can be with their loved one and discover that there's still joy to be had. We can be with a group of people who are on similar journeys, there's no pressure, we can just be an enjoy. And so that's what that's all about. And we used to have big one big community wide Memory Cafe every year. Again, Re COVID. Right. Yeah, that's the one you went to I think, in 2000. razor, yeah, it was really, that was a fun, fun gathering. But right now we just do them twice. We do them on Thursdays, 10. And one. And then we also are doing what we call mobile Memory Cafes, where we would either go into the long term care communities and have a gathering, which now last year, we couldn't get in to care communities. So we would do a virtual memory cafe with the people in care communities, and their loved ones outside the communities. So the loved ones could attend the same Memory Cafes as, as their people inside the Yeah, because they

DM

couldn't, they couldn't visit, they couldn't

2

visit and he is having fun. She is singing songs she is doing okay. And for some family members that was so important, they could at least once a week, see their loved one engaging in something that was fun and meaningful for all of them. So that that's what Memory Cafes are. They're just really one of our most favorite parts of our jobs in dementia together, that's for sure.

DM

So so the person with dementia comes with a caregiver and or a loved one. And everybody everybody plays. Yeah,

2

yeah. without pressure, you know, so if I maybe I want to comment on the time I fell off the swing on a, you know, in third grade, or the monkey bars or whatever, but it takes me a little while to get that story out. That's not a big deal. Because everybody's sort of listening and having fun. And you know, it's just there's a lot of patience and compassion among people that are experiencing similar symptoms. And so it's just a fun group, and a lot of them become friends outside of just the weekly gatherings.

DM

That's great. So here's a question for you. What myths are you hearing about dementia now? I'm sure. I'm sure there's, there's a few big ones. So what are some of the myths that you can talk about? And what are some of people's greatest fears around dementia?

2

Yeah, I think that's a good question. I think I alluded to one of them. And I think the biggest myth is that if somebody gets a dementia related diagnosis, that's awful. It's over. And, and honestly, when I knew that my dad had some kind of dementia, and I didn't know at the time, what it was, I went in my brain from my dad is this guy who's my hero, brilliant, loving guy, too. I was picturing him like this in a rocking chair. And that was my motivation to learn what I could because I thought, this cannot be his fate. And I will tell you, that does not have to happen. So, to me, the myth is yes, it is, or the myth is that it is awful. The reality is, there's still a lot of living to do. There's a lot of joy to be had. And there is no reason why a person cannot live with lifelong well being, as long as they're surrounded by folks who change their expectations. They're not expecting them to recall their recent facts of what just occurred. They're not confronting them, or pummeling them even with questions all day long. They're not contradicting what's making sense to them. When they're losing recent facts, and they're really listening to that person because the person with dementia when they're speaking to us or asking us questions, they're telling us what what they really are still thinking about. And then so we can learn from them? How do we need to respond? What phrases still make sense to them? Or even watching them? What kind of gestures are important for us to watch? In our loved one, I'll tell a story last week, I think was last week, I was encouraging one of my art care partners to really be paying attention to the words that her loved one says, When he's telling his favorite story. And so, I mean, we worked on here's the favorite story. And we made a web diet or made a web diagram. And she wrote, what are the phrases he's still using? What are some of the gestures he uses when he's telling this story, because if he would lose more verbal skills, then she would be able to help fill in those gaps. And so she was really watching carefully. And a lot of our care partners who take part of our in our speckle classes say that they observe more than they talk now. And what she noticed was she was noticing how her husband held this stick that he needed to use to open up the curtains in their house. And she said he held it like a pool cue. And I just recall that he loved pool. So then she says this, that support group. And some of our other people at support group said, Oh, my husband likes pool too, and also does mine. So then last Friday, for couples got together at this place where they can play pool together. And the the men with with dementia played pool together, and the wives got to socialize with one another. And it was only because the wife was really paying one wife was really paying attention to her husband's gestures. So again, a lot of what we we teach, and what we talk about is that you can make a big difference if you just observe the expert living with dementia, and figure out how do we need to respond as a result. And that's what a lot of our classes are about. Basically, when we talk about, you know, don't have to contradict you don't have to correct, you can just keep your mouth shut, which is hard for families, because it's like, I want to keep him in line or I want to

DM

fill in make them remember, yeah, don't

2

you remember, I told you this stuff is just not helpful. And so just teaching families to maybe keep their mouths shut find it find things interesting that their loved one say but don't pressure them to, to have to give a reason or to correct themselves. It can make all the difference in the world. So we talked about we choose to be kind instead of Right. Yeah. And honestly, that's whether without dementia, that principle works. We don't always have to prove ourselves, right? We can just keep our mouths shut. works on all things interesting. Yeah.

DM

So what what does the acronym speckle stand for?

2

The way I explain it, it used to be well, yeah, they used to stand for specialized early care for Alzheimer's, but they kind of let that go by the wayside. I explain it in that it looks to me like it's special misspelled. So we pull the eye out of special and ask ourselves, what do I need to do? So that my loved one can live with lifelong well being? And the whole method is about what do I need to do? What do I need to change? Because it is all up to us, the people around the person with dementia, we can't expect them to do the changing. We have to do changing. And there's there's a dementia expert who's who says that dementia is a shift in the way that a person experiences the world and responds to it. And I like that definition. Because what that implies is that if our loved one with dementia is shifting in the way they're interacting with the world, then we have to shift as well if we still want meaningful engagement with them. Right? Can you hold Methodist about

DM

why I say that phrase a couple more times, would you Cindy,

2

it's it's by Dr. Allen power. And he said that dementia is a shift in the way that a person experiences the world and responds to it. I cut out a few words, but I think that's about it. Yeah, and I, again, if we if we just make a few minor shifts, change our strategy a little bit and how we engage, it can just make a world of difference for people living with dementia and for us to help them know that their value doesn't lie in their ability to recall the recent past. Right, they're still have living to do they still can contribute meaningfully to society, they still can interact. We just have to adjust a little bit so that we're not requiring them to Chain recent backs that aren't even storing.

DM

Right, right. A couple of experiences that that I've had with my mom, one being several years ago, we started noticing that she was different. And we reached out to her primary care physician who told us there was nothing wrong with my mom. And that she was the expert. And eventually, she sent us a rather scathing email that said to the to, that we needed to essentially butt out of our mom's business, it was it was pretty horrifying actually. That being said, she eventually sent my mom to a specialist. And especially I was at first very impressed because he spent two hours testing her. And I could tell she was really tired. And I just I, Mom, you're doing great, you're doing great. Hell, I don't even know if I can remember half the stuff. He's saying, don't worry about it, just do your best. And at the end, he closed his book. And he said, Well, you have Alzheimer's, make an appointment to meet us in three months. And he walked out. Oh, and I was like, he essentially just said, you're, you know, you have Alzheimer's, you're hosed. See you later. And it was it shocked me as a prior healthcare provider, because I used to be a physical therapist, and I worked with people with dementia in the skilled nursing facilities as a physical therapist, and what, what can people do? What can the audience do when they have a loved one? And they might be experiencing some of these things? What are some resources that if they don't get them from their primary care provider, or the the specialist, where where should we go?

2

Good. Yeah. Oh, man died. That has been more common, though, what any of us would like to admit, in terms of the trauma that happens when people get a diagnosis? And I hear that from a lot of people, I mean, to your to your providers, credit. Was it he or she, I don't know, Should she come back in three months? I mean, some people are like, here come back in six months or a year? And it's like they're left to flounder with? What do I do with this?

DM

Yeah. So

2

I would say, again, kudos to you for giving that information to the primary care provider. And that if families are noticing man, his executive function needs not right, his judgment has changed. His perception of what's happening just doesn't seem quite right. Even if you don't know what's going on. You know, he's overdrawn his checkbook. They never used to I mean, stuff like that. Well, I've done that. Get a note to the primary care provider ahead of time, not the appointment, right, as he at least as you walk in and give it to the medical assistant, or somebody to give to the provider before that person walks in to see your loved one. Because here's our perception. Can you just do a cognitive exam? Yes, cognitive, full cognitive exams can be exhausting. The reason why you want to do it initially, especially if your parent isn't real. Old, and maybe there's some treatment that might help. I mean, that the reason why you do want a cognitive exam is because what if it is reversible? What if it's just that there'll be 12 is off? Or there? Yeah, thyroid level is

DM

a UTI urinary tract infection? Especially. Yeah,

2

yes, yes. And especially if it's a quick decline, you always want to check, you know, for some kind of infection UTI or something, right. So, yes, there could be a reversible reason. So that's why you want to get it checked out? Sure, then if you find out that it's not a reversible cause, what we're hoping with our nonprofit organization is that we can help providers, you willing to give a dementia related diagnosis and give some hope, while they're at it. And this is because our advisory board has people on it, that are living with dementia and their care partners. And one of them said, you know, we know there's a lot of resources in northern Colorado. And we know there's a lot of people who need them, but we just don't know how to get those two together. So one of the things then that we started a few years ago was that we got these resource folders like this, that we have started to give to medical providers in northern Colorado. So when they have a dementia related diagnosis, they can say, look, it looks like you do have dementia related to Alzheimer's. So here's this resource to get you involved right away with support groups with Memory Cafes, with educational resources to know how to help your loved one live well or, or to the person with dementia, to help you live well, where you still have living to do. And you're in a community where people care about you. And so we want you to have help. And so in our resource folders, we have a one page tip sheet for the person with dementia. We have a one page tip sheet for the care partner. And then we also include a one page Well, no, it's two pages back of just opportunities to get engaged in northern Colorado. And we put in these pocket cards that don't just have our resources, right from dementia together. But our collaborative organ and other collaborative organizations that we work with, like the Alzheimer's Association, like the lammer, weld county offices on aging, like we're not the only ones trying to help people, there's are so many resources out there. And it and even the Alzheimer's Association has a 800 number. That's 24 hours a day that people can call when they're running into help. So there are resources out there, there's a lot of national and international online support groups, dementia chats, Alzheimer speaks, there's a lot of groups, there's dementia Action Alliance, where they give voice to the expert, and learn from each other and learn from those people that are walking this journey. Because who better to know how to treat somebody with dementia than somebody with dementia telling you? This is what would help me if you would speak at the same pace at which I'm speaking that day. Yeah, because that is probably the pace at which my brain is processing that day. Right. That's what I heard from a lady with living with dementia when I talked about, you know, what's helpful when you go to the doctor's appointment. And so just the pace of speech sometimes can be helpful, there's a lot of just little tips we can share with one another. And we've got some of them in these folders. So to not let people flounder is important. And I would say if you're if you're going to a medical provider that doesn't have these folders, asked for us, all right, or just just get in touch with dementia together.org on our website, and we've got all sorts of those resources listed.

DM

And I know you're predominantly in in noco, which is how you and I originally met. And for those people who are not in northern Colorado, they could also reach out to you and you could hook them up. Yes.

2

Yes, yes. And and we do work a lot with, you know, like, probably specifically dementia Action Alliance is is a national organization and, and others. But they're, yeah, we're not the only game in town, we've there are other great experts and resources in United States and really internationally to help people realize that they can live well. That's great and over just because your cognition is changing.

DM

Right. And, and, of course, that's provided you were saying that there's there's a whole tip sheet for someone with dementia. Well, my mother is, does not she has no insight into her. Her dementia, she she just says, Oh, I just got too much on my mind. And, and you know, and I can tell it bothers her. And, you know, I try to put a little card in front of the doctor, just saying My mom has dementia, please talk to her. And me. Don't leave her out of the conversation. But you can say, Well, you know, have you had any? I mean, they'll ask a question. Like, have you had any memory loss lately? Really? So, yeah, and I can tell it's hard. And so sometimes I think we need to be the educators as well as our parents. But what would you what strategy would you tell people like me who have who has a parent that has no insight into their dementia?

2

I would, I would probably tell you, what you're already doing is you know, talking to the medical provider ahead of time when you go in for evaluations with this is what we're seeing. Here's the latest symptoms. I will Will not contradict my loved one when we're in this appointment. So she tells you she's not got any problems if she says she's cooking the meals every night, these people come over every night, whatever she says I will not contradict her during this appointment, but I will let you know if something later isn't ringing true. And it's something that you need to know about. Because otherwise she's going to be get feeling like she's alone in this right? She has to go through that appointment where you guys are in this together. And when you leave, it's like, well, that went pretty well. Because the feelings are storing, she's going to be feeling much better than if you try to contradict her during that appointment. Right? You do end up doing some caregiving by stealth. And I know you're good at that and letting her be the expert and you're choosing to use what's what's feeling right to her, rather than being so, you know, prideful say, No, Mom, you have to you have to understand the world. According to what I know. I've got logic and facts I can use, but she doesn't. And so you're because you've got that and she doesn't you're choosing to be humble enough to say, oh, okay, this is what makes sense to you. So I'm going to join you there. And I know you do that with your mom. And and you've worked at that, too.

DM

Yes. And and occasionally. I will just remind her well, Mom, you do have a lot on your mind. And I know that so can I help? Can I help by telling the doctor What? What I think is going on? And I'll ask her permission and usually she'll say yeah, I have so much to do. Yeah, cuz Ron is just baseball slow. He can't do anything. You know. So she goes off on him. It's kind of it's kind of amusing. But but she has to have you be her person with us. And so in a nice together and excuse for her I say you know, Mom, remember you fell and hit your head really hard on the ice that one time? And and sometimes I think because of the end sheet show like Oh, yeah. And she'll tell the whole story all over again. And, and and she's comfortable with that she's comfortable when she knows when she has the insight, which isn't very often, but when she does have the insight that she's not cognitively performing well, I just remind her about her her accident and that she really bumped her head really hard. And and then she's okay.

2

And if that's her reason that makes sense to her. Oh, man. Good for you for using that. Yeah.

DM

I just found that that works.

2

Yeah. So and if it works, that's that is great. Because then you know, to use it and then watch it. The thing is, it's like anybody who would you would hire in at home needs to know when she gets frustrated with her memory or something? It's like, Oh, yeah, you must have. I think Don told me about you falling on the ice. Yeah. And then she can kind of tell the whole story again about that.

DM

Yeah. So

2

that's the kind of stuff that anybody you hire in to help you. And typically, for care partners, if they're wondering, is it time to hire in extra help? If you're wondering that, I would say the answer is yes. It's an extra Hill.

DM

Yeah. Most people wait too long before they hire help. We're starting Yeah, cuz because, you know, when you when you get burned out, it's harder to to observe, it's harder to do the counterintuitive things we need to do to have them feel heard and valued. Like you were saying,

2

Yeah, cuz you really do have to sit like you're thinking for, too. And and you're that counterintuitive stuff does take some energy and practice. Yep. And then you tend to see more and more dementia as the dementia progresses, so you can back off a little bit and let somebody come in and assist you. Yeah, that can make it more sustainable for you.

DM

Okay, well, I just have two more questions. The first of those two is what strategies can people use right away that maybe we didn't touch on? expectations?

2

Yeah, I think probably, and maybe, I probably didn't mention it. But we have to change our expectations. Yeah. And not expect that. That our loved one is retaining recent backs, not expect that when we off, have them do something that feels meaningful to them that maybe they do it perfectly or the right way or that they do it to our old standards are our standards now are. We share this time together and it's joyful or at least It's okay. That that's our standard, that's what needs to be our expectation because it's any any agenda we have outside of contentment, and well being just is going to make us feel disappointed. So that that would be a big one. And then also, you do want to get an evaluation, especially if it's, it's would be reversible, and you want to get help before you burnout, like, like you had said, and realize that chances are just you're doing the best you can, but so as your loved one, right? So for us to always just come from that position of I'm assuming the best in everybody, it that makes it easier to, to deal with to they're not being difficult, or they're not being agitated, to be difficult for you. It's just there trying to communicate to you something's missing, I need some help with this or that something's wrong. And so for us, a lot of it is you need to be a detective, to figure out the reason why my loved ones getting anxious. And I will tell you, when you notice that or you notice edge agitation, it's like we want to sometimes say a came out of the blue, and it never comes out of the blue. There's always a reason and we just have to be detectives, right, and try to figure out what that recently. That's great. Well, I

DM

know we talked about this. For the audience listening today. How can we learn more? You have some classes coming up?

2

I do have some classes coming up? Yeah. On April 20, and 21st. And I keep you those dates because I don't

DM

have Well, that's okay. Can they go to your website and find on

2

our website? Yeah, so I'm so we're doing an in just an introductory contented dementia course for adult children, trying to care for parents and helping them live well wonder and that that's on our website, that we're also doing another one for spouses. And so we'll have two courses or classes in April, and it's at dementia together.org, dementia together.org. And there, you'll find out where you have to click as care partners to try to register for a class. Our phone number is 970-305-5271. And then we also do have an email, it's just help at dementia together.org.

DM

Can you say that phone number one

2

more time, Cindy? 9703055 to seven, one. Okay. And that's a message phone. So you have to leave a message and then one of us will call you back?

DM

Wonderful. Wonderful. Well, Cindy, gosh, thank you so much for this. I know, there's quite a few of us out there, navigating this and and I know I can always be a better version of myself around my mom. It gets challenging sometimes. And I just appreciate what you're doing the work you're doing in the world. And before we sign off, how are you in this age of COVID? How are you raising funds for your work? Because I know you take donations as as a way of if people want to use your services or things like that. And those donations help you keep your work going. So is there also a place on dementia together.org? That is there's a Donate button or how do we how do we help you?

2

Yeah, all thanks. So we provide all of our education and life enrichment and initial consultations for you know, for families, and working with families at no charge because we don't want costs to be a barrier for anybody trying to seek support and connection. So that is why we do accept then donations from private individuals from corporate sponsors we apply for grants. So yeah, anybody who wants to support our organization, so that no one has to walk the dementia journey alone. That's really what we are all about and and i hope whether you donate to us or whether you connect with us or not, do know that there is no reason to walk alone. There are people out there who can help you and, and, and help you and your loved one live well, even if dementia is part of this life journey.

DM

Well, that's wonderful. Cindy, I just want to thank you so much again for your time, your wisdom, your your service, your love, your compassion, all those things. And so this podcast was caring for loved ones with dementia. better approach, because there is one. And thank you again. And for those of you listening, you can check the show notes, we'll have all of Cindy's information, and you can reach out to her directly. She's phenomenal. She has helped me and my family so much. And, you know, with a little bit of education, we can all do better. We can all do better. So,

2

like your family is an inspiration to me and how you guys did what needs to be done and you became this team. That so we're gonna work together and we're gonna make this okay. Exactly.

DM

Exactly. So I think privilege for sure. Oh, gosh, honors mine. Thank you so much. And Cindy, I'll be in touch with you. We'll have a cup of coffee of its virtual or whatever. We'll get together very soon. And for the rest of you, I will see you next time. This was to your greatness with Don Mathis. And I am Don Mathis of Institute lifeworks. We'll see you next time. Thank you for joining me on to your greatness. If you're inspired by what you heard, and are ready to take a deeper dive into your own life's purpose. I'd love to offer you a complimentary life reflection session. In this session, I'll help you get clear about what's been holding you back. And how you can rediscover the greatness that lies within you. If this is something you would love, I invite you to head to my website to your greatness dotnet where you can take the first step in this journey. spots are limited, so claim yours today. You are so much more than what you do for others. I believe there is a dream inside you just waiting to be fulfilled. If you agree, I invite you to take that first step and visit www.to your greatness dotnet right now. I can't wait to meet with you. My name is Dawn Mathis, and this is to your greatness. Remember, your greatness lies within you. See you next time. And if you enjoyed today's episode, I invite you to subscribe and keep listening. Remember to Like, Share, and review this podcast to help other listeners like you find their way to this heart centered community. Thank you so much.