Real Estate Investment: Tokenization, AI, and Expert Advice with Dan French, CEO of ResProp

0:04 Welcome to the Index Podcast hosted by Alex Kahaya. Plug in as we explore new frontiers with Web 3 and the decentralized future. Hey everyone and welcome to the Index. We believe that people are worth knowing, and I want to tell the stories of the people who are building the future of the Internet. I'm your host, alex Kahaya, and today I'm excited to welcome Dan French, managing partner at RECS, a technology platform that empowers working people underserved by tech. Recs provides solutions to help small business owners, property managers and vendors make payments, find insurance route, work efficiently and more.

0:48 And, dan, I know you kind of work with like a portfolio of companies underneath a parent company, and some of them use AI. Some of them, you know you're looking at different tokenization strategies. We'd just love to kind of start with like your background and then get into the different projects that you guys are working on. More than happy to Alex and thank you so much for having me on. Big fan of the show, Love your passion around the space. And happy to get into my background a little bit. So two decades in real estate. You know I've been operating and investing in real estate that whole time, so I really know real estate from the ground up. Like you know boots on the ground. I've managed my own apartments. You know I turn my own apartments, answer the maintenance line, lease my own apartment. So deep background in real estate.

1:29 Our platform that we built after the great financial crisis was a real estate investment platform. It purchased about $2 billion in assets, so that was 17,000 apartments by 2016,. We had already been thinking about, you know, launching it to real estate technology and building our own tech Because, as you know, alex, real estate is the largest asset class in the world. It's, like some people say, $280 trillion, so three times the value of, like the stock market in the US. It's enormous and it touches every aspect of people's lives by being, you know, very deep in the space as investors, as operators, we felt these pain points ourselves and so we felt number one.

2:09 It was a great mission to serve other people because we knew that the real estate, the tech in real estate, is so poor, it's so bad. And number two, it was a huge economic opportunity. So that's really like the two main reasons why we pivoted a little bit and started launching it to real estate technology. So you had kind of a fund, basically, that was acquiring all these properties. You did about $2 billion in acquisitions and then now you have this technology platform. What does this technology platform do Like? What are your goals with that? And I guess, based on your experience, you know what pain points are you solving that you faced, because it sounds like that's where this came from. You had some pain points and now you built some technology to solve it. I think the best technology, the people launching into technology and being entrepreneurs, they stick to what they know, they stick to their space.

2:57 That humility that's really like what kind of like one of the underpinnings of what we did here. Like we didn't go into health tech or education tech, we stuck to the knitting. And so it's a single venture. We think of it as a single venture to disrupt real estate and but within that there's 10 separate technology companies that we've. We had the idea, we incubated it. We to begin with, we self-funded, we did take on some outside capital, but so these 10 tech companies were launched and many of them are around the space of maintenance or vendors, and I can go into a couple other ones. But these folks don't have a lot of technology built for them. You know what I mean. They're kind of like the forgotten element of real estate, because in real estate it's so much about the top line, the revenue.

3:42 So you know, leasing gets a lot of attention, All these different like point solutions around driving revenue. That gets a lot more attention than building technology for the people who are the backbone of real estate, which is your operator, you know, especially multifamily. It takes a lot of people to run a site and your vendors. Vendors are in every single asset of real estate asset class. They're the ones that keep the buildings going. So we're building technology to help them get insurance, get paid, get verified that they can work on site, become compliant and then build their business. It's a really cool portfolio. I mean, I'm just looking at the website again, but you've got a mix of like AI and tokenization stuff here.

4:23 You've got Job Call, which is like AI assistant for property management. You have Get Done the operating system for maintenance. I'm sure that that sounds like managing, like what tasks need to be done, like for larger property owners. And then you have OwnProp, which is like a platform for buying and selling tokenized real estate, and this is one that people are pretty interested in and I've seen happening on Solana at least with like Homebase and a few others. That's pretty cool and I think it's interesting like the market's so huge for that that it's easy to have multiple platforms and players that are doing that and still have like pretty big businesses, it would see, at least on paper. And then there's like ID course Protect your Business for Risk with AI-powered vendor compliance.

5:03 There's so many different niches and it's like I guess, like which thing are you most excited about out of the portfolio that you guys have built? It's kind of like having 10 babies. You know it's hard to choose like well, who's your favorite child? I have four kids. You know it's like I would say I'm marginally more excited. I'm excited by them all, but I'm marginally more excited by own prop will be probably one of my tops because you know I'm very mission focused in my business mindset. We're all working so damn hard, you know, if there's no mission behind it, like what keeps you going. You know own prop is a platform that its intention is to democratize real estate investment, the access to great, you know high quality real estate investment offerings.

5:45 That should be not just the playground of the rich. You know what I mean. That should be offered to people who are actually doing the work at a hotel. Or a vendor who is working at a you know multifamily site might say, hey, you know what this property looks like. A winner, I want to invest in this. You know they should have that opportunity, just like if they're using Amazon every day, they can go on Robinhood and go buy a piece of that of that business. It should be the same way for real estate investments and tokenization. I just read somewhere some person on I think it was on Twitter, or Axe was saying it's growing as fast as the internet was in, like the early 90s. You know so. Yeah, I mean, wasn't it the CEO of BlackRock or something?

6:26 The other day was like talking about the Bitcoin ETF and he said you know, the next thing is tokenization of everything. And he called that out, which I thought was pretty cool, Really cool, and that's probably one of the biggest AUM firms in the world right Like 9 trillion or something crazy. The Bitcoin ETF I've heard it's outpacing Silver now in terms of being the second biggest ETF. It's just, things are moving really fast. You know we're part of the mix and we want to make sure that this is it's going to happen and it's going to unfold over, I think, three to five years We'll see more adoption, but then 10 and 20 years, like we even have that long range vision where we want to be part of this democratization of real estate.

7:11 We want to be right at the center of it and evangelize it, get people on the platform. Hopefully, as investors, they make a lot of money and that's what we're about. It's kind of cool to see the product Like so this is the own prop product and it's a sub company of Rex. When the URL for people who are curious is rexcom, rexcom, we can get into the background of Rex briefly. And I know you're a partner. You're a partner at Rex, right? Yes, correct. So you're a partner at Rex and you like kind of help manage some of these portfolio companies, that sort of your role. Yeah, we have a team that runs each company basically and they're incentivized as basically hopefully like earning to becoming a founder at each company.

7:52 But, yeah, so Pete Rex is the force behind, he's the founder and chairman. I've been his business partner for 18 years, so I've been part of all this from inception stage. So really think of myself as like a co-founder or a partner. I'm involved generally. Yeah. Like I went to the listings here, like if you're wanting to invest in some of these properties, it looks like everything is fully funded. You've done some tests here. How does it work? Like if this campaign for, like, the iconic hotel Ella near the University of Texas was live, I click on it and I got to probably sign in. But how does it work from here? If I want to invest, am I paying in cash? Just walk me through the process here On ownpropcom, which is the web version, or there's an app.

8:36 It's in the app store. You can get on there. We want it to be a very clean user experience, almost like a retail type of experience, because over time, we want the ability for people to just get a $100 piece of an investment, a high quality real estate investment. That just doesn't exist, right, because the stated minimums on almost every site you're going to see is like $25,000 would be the lowest, and it's because there's so many moving pieces to transacting in real estate and fractionalizing it. Real estate already is very fractionalized because every large deal is going to have like probably a lot of investors, right? So in a way, it's already fractionalized. What we're doing is using blockchain to ease the transaction costs and increase the liquidity of you, whoever buys this token, and I can explain a little bit how you get that token.

9:25 If you buy that token and you want to trade out of the asset in two years, well, we want to have like a very liquid kind of secondary offering site where you can sell that Instead of waiting for the sponsor the real estate sponsor who owns that deal to trade out of that asset and fully get you liquid. We want to have almost like a stock exchange, where there's buyers and sellers, they're mixing it up and they're trading. I like how you had the percentages right here and you can say that. Okay. So this one says 19.7 projected IRR. And if I don't really know what IRR is although you probably should, if you're on this site you can read that and figure that out, because you've got the educational materials right there.

10:08 And then you've got this 2.21x equity multiple, which I actually is total cash distributed received from an investment. So this is like hey, over time, if you hold it for five years, I'll earn 2.21, the value of what I put in. And that's where, down at the bottom you scroll down here. It's like hey, if I put in 25k, it's projected I'll get 55k, based on two things. One is this 7.8% cash yield, which is like it's going to throw off cash flow from just the business making money and paying you guys as investors, including whoever bought this token. And then, if you sold it in five years, that's where the rest of that 2.21X comes from, cause you're gonna sell it.

10:49 I think it says down here there's a thousand tokens being sold. So token economics we're looking down here at the bottom of the financials. So the assets were 26 million. It makes 1.8 million a year. You're gonna sell a token called PLA, and then you're gonna sell a thousand of them, or 1,070, which, at $100 per token, is $107,000. So you weren't like taking a ton of cash here. This is like just an early example, I'm guessing. But yeah, so doing that, that's kind of how you calculate the return. Exactly. Yeah, you know, you know that all of that was spot on and our ecosystem wrecks probably.

11:29 Speaking, the way I think about it is like there's three pieces of it. We're talking about the tech side today, so there's a real estate tech, but then we have a real estate investment platform and, like I said in the past, we bought about $2 billion in assets. Now we're in a new entity because we see new buying opportunity. We're buying deals again. This was the first deal we bought as ATX acquisition. So Pete Rex, this one, yeah, this one called Ella, yes, iconic hotels. It's near UT Austin and so this is a proof of concept. We only did raise 107,000. This way, Total equity raise was over 10 million. So you just see this as a test and it's kind of interesting because you have your own portfolio that you can then add as the supply.

12:09 So you solve like one half of the problems like getting supply of properties to tokenize, and then for ATX you're kind of getting some liquidity here right Cause you're selling off pieces of it. Yeah, exactly so it's synergistic for both teams kind of benefit. But this is part of a broader mission and right now. So you had to be accredited to be and the way we did this. Offering is a Reg D5 to 6C and that means to come into it even if you're just buying a thousand dollar token or a hundred dollar token, whatever we offered. I think we went down to a hundred dollars at Ella, which is awesome. It's incredible. So this was already totally compliant. It's totally compliant, I mean, I guess the only thing there is like you know how do you think about this?

12:53 So if you, if I tokenize the asset, it's sitting in my wallet technically because it's on our arbitram. I saw that and noticed that in looking through. But it doesn't really matter what chain you're on unless it's a permission to change. So if you're on arbitram or Solana or Ethereum, like wherever you're tokenizing it, that asset is once it's in my wallet, I can take it off platform. I don't know how you guys had thought through that or not, but you know technically I could trade that. You wouldn't want the exchange to be totally permissionless. If it has to be accredited investors, right, like it needs to be accredited investors to do that. There's a bunch of things we have to work around there, but the perfect world is that the SEC opens it up because, for the benefit of the audience, an accredited investor in the US is someone who has to make $200,000 if they're single, right, and $300,000 if you're married, and that's a pretty high bar.

13:39 You know A lot of people that have investable cash are not gonna meet that requirement. And then there's a net worth threshold you can hit too, but even that's very high. And you did these all as reg A's. You did each one of these examples I think there were like four or five in there you did all as reg A. That's how you structured it. No, we have done a lot of legal work and we've gone down that kind of rabbit hole that requires SEC approval doing a reg A offering. These are reg D 506C, so that's why you need to have accredited folks are the only ones able to come in Right, right sorry yeah, yeah, a reg A, I believe, is open to anyone. We're gonna redevelop Ella and it's a 47 hotel room.

14:19 They call it keys 47 keys. Today it's gonna be 215. We have already approved us to do that. So once the debt markets kind of change, we'll redevelop that hotel. You'll refinance it and then use the cash to build out. Recap it we'll leave it and that might be a great opportunity for us to do a reg A offering, because it'll need a lot of capital and then you can open that up to non-accredited folks. This is in the kind of still the it works. You were able to actually use the platform to sell that 100K, even if you guys were your own buyer, you like. Logistically it was able to work. I mean, did other people buy it? Was it people non-affiliated with ATX that actually went in and bought the for this test run?

15:00 Was it like other random people that, like, bought these tokens? Yeah, totally, we did. Seven, I think are on the website that were fully funded. It's about a million dollars we raised, which is not a lot of money, right, guys? It's in the real private equity world that's like a drop in the bucket. And so many of those deals I think three of them or two or three of them are ATX, like the ones that our team sponsors, we know it and then some of them are other sponsors that just got vetted and got onto the platform. So, yes, those folks that are invested in those deals are not just people. We know. We did a lot of marketing, we did a lot of outreach, went to events and people just found it and they were like, yeah, you know, great, I want to be an early adopter or a blockchain technology applied to real estate, or I like that particular asset, let me get into it.

15:50 I think it's a great investment. One thing I've always liked about blockchain technology with real world assets in general, but especially real estate. Like I think I told you about this before, I had this whole idea of how to tokenize mortgages. I don't know if I shared the link with you, but I wrote something up about it, Like I think I told them more about research. Yeah, I read your wich paper. I did, I did like a ton of rat. I wouldn't call it quite a white paper but yeah, I wrote a pretty long research paper on it. A great paper, yeah, A great paper. For me, the automation of the payments is just really interesting. That and the tracking of the actual paper, because these are physical assets, right, Even a mortgage. The paper is held somewhere. I didn't know that until I started researching the mortgage industry, but the whole secondary market for mortgages everything about mortgages is physical paper.

16:36 It's actually custodied somewhere, which is insane. These are physical assets. I own like one key by buying. That's actually kind of fun if you sell them as like unique keys, which would be more like an NFT than a fungible token. But I digress Are you guys actually paying out those Cause? I don't know how long ago this was, but it's like six, seven percent cash flow from this property. So if I put in 100K, I should make 100K. I should make like seven grand a year on that 100K, right, that's seven percent. So are you guys paying that out on chain right now? Or are you just like mailing the token holder a check or like handling that manually that way? Like how are you doing that right now? The vision is to be able to. The person can select any way they want.

17:17 Right, they can get paid in Bitcoin or Solana or whatever. But right now, it's all ACH that we have your bank account and we'll just like a regular real estate. Yeah. So the MVP here was like can we tokenize this asset and will anyone spend any money on it? And the answer was yes, we can tokenize it and yes, we got like a million dollars in sales volume. What's next Like and what do you need to do to get to the next level here, where you have sort of the full vision of like a marketplace and like multiple payment options for the cash flows? What do you need to do next? I think we have to keep listing very high quality opportunities, investment offerings onto the platform and then just keep evangelizing so you get, you know, we get actual customers and we are kind of unique, like you said, in terms of we can, we can seed the platform with deals that we know and I'm personally investing in all those deals, so I know they're good deals.

18:11 And then it's about, you know, getting people to ownpropcom and checking it out and making sure that they start transacting there and then, over time, having this kind of secondary, the liquidity to be able to trade in and out of. Let's say, alex, who bought a coin for $1,000 and you know it's worth. Our projections were said it was going to be worth 2005 years, maybe it's 2002 years and you want to take your gains off the table and someone else comes along. We need someone else to come along and say, how about that token for 2000? You know. So this is going to be a long build out, but there's groups that are that are proving it and I applaud all those groups because it's just getting more people into. If you found a team that was like farther along I mean, given your size, like you have to have the capital to just buy a team if you wanted to.

18:56 You know early stage or something, or invest in a couple of teams that do it like is that something that the parent company would be interested in or that people should reach out to you about? We're opportunistic. We love to talk to people just to create relationships and see what's out there. Yes, we could do something like that. You know, I think, much like you, you have a lot of things going on. We just had so many things that we had launched at one time that only probably kind of got a pause, especially when, like crypto winter happened, there was a little bit less activity and interest. Even going to conferences became different. Right, it was like more quiet, more everyone was a little bit. Plus, the tech world got the biggest shock it had got since 2001. So it was this patchy area where we kind of just decided to pause not deprecate, but pause own prop a little bit and focus on some of the other ones that were that were getting a more immediate market fit, because own prop takes a lot of you got to generate attention to get onto the site.

19:51 I love the idea for own prop. I do think it's a little bit early because there's just a couple of. I think the technology's finally there. Like, the technology is where you need it to be to make own prop work. I do. I really think, especially on Solana. I think and I'm biased because you know I work in that ecosystem pretty heavily but I do think, like you know, if you look at something like cube exchange I don't know if you've heard of cube, but they're like a new exchange. I'm an investor in cube, full transparency. But they have built out a new multi-party computational wallet which is a mouthful, but the TLDR and what that is is. It allows you to just like sign up for an account anywhere with like a Google Gmail account or Twitter or Facebook or whatever, like a normal user would and creates your wallet for you and it does that in a way that's sort of like the user doesn't even really need to know about crypto to use that product.

20:44 But it still gives you the benefit of self custody. And I could get into, like the technical a little bit more technical. I'm not that technical but I could get into more technical details about how that actually works. But the big innovation there is I can have self custody, so like they're in exchange and something like what happened with FTX, where all of a sudden there was a run on the bank and FTX misused a bunch of investor capital. That's not possible with CUBE and with MPC wallets, because you actually hold the keys to your crypto and so you're protected that way. So that is something that really needs to exist in order for people to use something like own prop. In my opinion, because the real estate market is huge and, yes, there is a niche of probably people who overlap with crypto, where they're used to like, hey, I gotta go set up a seed phrase and have a wallet with Phantom or something.

21:31 But there's also like to really get to that scale where there's like a ton of volume and a lot of interest, you need the user interface to just be super, super easy. Mpc wallets have been around for a while, but I think like they haven't been at the point yet where they're good enough. Now maybe they are, but it's still even in the market. It's like, yeah, anytime there's a downturn in a market and that causes the opportunity to kind of evaporate, the market's not ready yet it needs to be big enough and enough long-term interest to sustain a new business like what you guys are talking about with own prop and I experienced that with the NFT space personally with one of my companies. Of the portfolio of companies, which ones are getting traction and you feel like have product market fit?

22:14 And especially interesting if any of those are the AI ones, because I wanna understand, like, how AI is benefiting those customers. But like, out of the handful, which ones are actually getting product market fit, you feel? So I would call out Job Call and Insure Pro Just to explain that briefly. Insure Pro it's a platform where mostly it's targeted vendors, right. So it's insurance lines that generate or that are around the space of if I'm a vendor, I need liability insurance, commercial vehicle insurance, cybersecurity, if I'm doing that kind of work, anything you need for being on a site to do a job, or if you're a caterer or a wedding plan, whatever.

22:56 That's kind of where we found market fit. So we've done $10 million in premiums. We have the top 20 insurance carriers, like all the big names, like all estate travelers, whatever. So if you're a vendor, you go into the flow and you describe what you do. You have a bunch of prompts, questions, and that's where machine learning and AI comes in. So it'll kind of take all your information and shoot it out to all the different insurance providers and it'll show you your best options, not just simply your cheapest, but your best coverage based on. Hey, I'm a painter and I do exterior work and I have five people on my job, so we've done a lot of work with all the knowledge, graphs and AI has been applied in that business from the very beginning.

23:38 Very cool. The other one you mentioned was Job Call that uses AI, so the property maintenance made easier. Yeah, job Call starts off the initial use case that we found there and does have really strong product market fit. Always, if you have any kind of size in your site really even if you're a single family home, you're maintaining this there needs to be a line that people can call if an emergency happens. So your roof caves in or your heat goes out, your air condition goes out to summer, whatever. So you have to call someone and in the past it's been very clunky. They use like IVR so it'll just go through a call chain and it's terrible. It's a real bad experience for both people the resident calling and the maintenance person that actually has the on-call phone.

24:22 So Job Call handles all this. It uses NLP to get all the info that the person's calling in about, but it'll also use machine learning to splash it out to the right people. If it's a vendor and the maintenance person can't handle it, it'll splash it to a vendor. If it's a maintenance person, it'll use this routing system. It's amazing how far the speech to text stuff has come too. You could literally have AI ask all the questions and receive the speech to text and then use the natural language processing the NLP stuff to route it to the right thing and do all sorts of stuff. So that's pretty cool. There's some music cases that are so powerful that are really simple.

25:03 You know really simple tasks. That is pretty good about handling and like, what is the impact of that? Like, are you drastically like Increasing the time, response times? And also like making so they don't have to have a huge call center? Or something you know to handle is these requests? What's the benefit to the property owners? Well, it's cheaper than the current solution because everyone basically has something that they're using and so it is cheaper. But but I would say, like resident happiness is way higher, you know, because the ease of it is is great. And also, by the way, if you have like a property management software system, like a PMS is called, it's integrated with all that, so it'll it'll take the maintenance call route or work order right into that system, so it's also recorded there.

25:51 It just saves so many hours. I think there's some study we've done here how many hours it saves of both the operator, the maintenance person's time, the residents happier. It's lower cost, so and there's no human in the loop here. We've done a full year of this on over 10,000 units and no human intervention at all. So the AI is pretty robust, yeah. So we're good to the top of the show. Here I always ask the same question, like what if I not asked you that I should have asked that you wanted to talk about? You know we didn't talk about too much about mission, but we're very mission focused. But I did want to mention that. You know your, your white paper had awesome ideas. Some of them, I think, are going to happen. That mortgage, breaking up that industry and applying like blockchain ideas to that will be huge for people.

26:36 And also your idea about you know you call the payday, but we had a similar idea where people vendors get paid and they have to wait like 45 days for a payment and they're working like day to day. You know they're trying to pay their workers and stuff like that. So pay up was one of our other companies. Oh, cool, yeah, that was like another. So back then just to give people context, like it was before I joined Solana I was like thinking about starting a company and I was looking into the mortgage space and I did like a really deep dive and I ended up really landing on tokenizing mortgages for secondary markets. So the instant you get a mortgage, the broker that sold you that mortgage is on the phone or somebody who works with them is on the phone reselling that mortgage to somebody else.

27:21 I mean, they keep some of them, but typically it gets sold and sometimes it gets sold multiple times and it's really hard to track. Like you just randomly get in the mail a notice like saying your mortgage has been transferred over here, and sometimes it's super seamless. Sometimes it is just like into the bank that you happen to bank with and it just shows up on your account. That's happened to me and so the mortgage payments keep kind of going through. Other times it goes to some vendor that has like a terrible interface for like paying your mortgage and you have to like figure out how to sign up and pay it and like re register and stuff. So you have to be really on it for when these notices come in as a consumer. What's happening on the back end is people are trading paper assets like physical paper, and it's really inefficient.

28:05 And so there's this thing called mortgage backed securities, which are bundles of mortgages. They take not just your mortgage, but like thousands of mortgages and they like kind of, look at the risk profile, how much cash it's generating all that the value of the mortgage and they bundle a bunch of them together and they sell that and that's a mortgage backed securities. They'll send instead of one mortgage. They sell like a thousand mortgages at once. That is a security. Individual mortgages are not a security, and I think part of the reason they bundle them is they're there, it's a risk management thing, but it's also probably just easier to sell, you know, a thousand mortgages to a big bank than it is to sell just one. And this is where I think blockchain technology, especially on something like Solana, can make a big difference.

28:45 You tokenize the individual mortgages and then allows people to buy lots of them very quickly and very cheaply on an exchange that could be permissioned, to make sure it only like accepts accredited investors or if, since they're individuals and they're not securities, maybe you could just do that on you know something that's a little more open. I don't know, I'm not a lawyer, a consultant lawyer, but where I landed was is the best opportunities to tokenize them for secondary sales and then you can manage cash flows on chain automatically. Whoever is the servicer of that loan doesn't need to know exactly who the owner is. They can just look at the on chain data and use a really easy interface to like automatically pay out all the monthly premiums that they're supposed to pay and look, there's like a lot of complications there in edge cases.

29:32 But that was the basic idea. And then the payday thing was payday loans like a vulture industry, super terrible and I had a bunch of ideas on like how to fix that for people, but I won't take up too much time for that. But yeah, we don't have time, but the original idea of pay up was very much trying to make that a better system for the people who are underbanked or unbanked and create a wallet for them, much like you said, and have them get better pricing and better you know, much better treatment than they get with payday loans. So that company is pivoted, is doing really good now but but anyway. How can people reach you if they want to talk about this stuff? Are you on Twitter or you have an email or something they can shoot you an email? Yeah, for sure, yeah, dfrench at rexcom.

30:14 That's the shortest one. My number is 845-629-1808. Oh, you're about to get spam calls. Give me some spam? No, just hit me up. I love to exchange ideas and maybe, you know, provide you some value, and I'm on LinkedIn as well. So I think what we have is fairly unique and we're we're very long term focused, very mission focused, and you know, it was a pleasure to be on. All right, everybody, you're here for us. Dfrench at rexcom. Thanks for being on the show, Dan Thanks so much. You just heard the index podcast with your host, Alex Kahaya. If you enjoyed this episode, please give the show a five star rating and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google or your favorite streaming platform.

30:57 New episodes available every other Wednesday. Thanks for tuning in.