Feb. 16, 2024
Real Estate Investment: Tokenization, AI, and Expert Advice with Dan French, CEO of ResProp
This week on The Index, host Alex Kehaya welcomes Dan French, CEO of ResProp & Partner at Rex, a company reshaping property investment. It's a great conversation about blockchain-driven property investment opportunities, where high-quality real estate assets become as accessible as trading stocks. Learn more about the promise of AI in property management and the transformative potential of blockchain in mortgages.
Host - Alex Kehaya
Producer - Shawn Nova
Chapters
00:04 - Exploring Real Estate Technology and Tokenization
07:34 - Real Estate Tokenization and Investment Process
18:50 - Opportunities for Investment and Market Fit
23:39 - Improving Property Maintenance With AI
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Index Podcast hosted by Alex Kahaya.
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Plug in as we explore new frontiers with Web 3 and the decentralized future.
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Hey everyone and welcome to the Index.
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We believe that people are worth knowing, and I want to tell the stories of the people who are building the future of the Internet.
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I'm your host, alex Kahaya, and today I'm excited to welcome Dan French, managing partner at RECS, a technology platform that empowers working people underserved by tech.
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Recs provides solutions to help small business owners, property managers and vendors make payments, find insurance route, work efficiently and more.
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And, dan, I know you kind of work with like a portfolio of companies underneath a parent company, and some of them use AI.
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Some of them, you know you're looking at different tokenization strategies.
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We'd just love to kind of start with like your background and then get into the different projects that you guys are working on.
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More than happy to Alex and thank you so much for having me on.
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Big fan of the show, Love your passion around the space.
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And happy to get into my background a little bit.
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So two decades in real estate.
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You know I've been operating and investing in real estate that whole time, so I really know real estate from the ground up.
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Like you know boots on the ground.
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I've managed my own apartments.
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You know I turn my own apartments, answer the maintenance line, lease my own apartment.
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So deep background in real estate.
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Our platform that we built after the great financial crisis was a real estate investment platform.
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It purchased about $2 billion in assets, so that was 17,000 apartments by 2016,.
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We had already been thinking about, you know, launching it to real estate technology and building our own tech Because, as you know, alex, real estate is the largest asset class in the world.
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It's, like some people say, $280 trillion, so three times the value of, like the stock market in the US.
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It's enormous and it touches every aspect of people's lives by being, you know, very deep in the space as investors, as operators, we felt these pain points ourselves and so we felt number one.
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It was a great mission to serve other people because we knew that the real estate, the tech in real estate, is so poor, it's so bad.
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And number two, it was a huge economic opportunity.
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So that's really like the two main reasons why we pivoted a little bit and started launching it to real estate technology.
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So you had kind of a fund, basically, that was acquiring all these properties.
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You did about $2 billion in acquisitions and then now you have this technology platform.
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What does this technology platform do Like?
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What are your goals with that?
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And I guess, based on your experience, you know what pain points are you solving that you faced, because it sounds like that's where this came from.
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You had some pain points and now you built some technology to solve it.
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I think the best technology, the people launching into technology and being entrepreneurs, they stick to what they know, they stick to their space.
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That humility that's really like what kind of like one of the underpinnings of what we did here.
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Like we didn't go into health tech or education tech, we stuck to the knitting.
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And so it's a single venture.
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We think of it as a single venture to disrupt real estate and but within that there's 10 separate technology companies that we've.
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We had the idea, we incubated it.
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We to begin with, we self-funded, we did take on some outside capital, but so these 10 tech companies were launched and many of them are around the space of maintenance or vendors, and I can go into a couple other ones.
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But these folks don't have a lot of technology built for them.
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You know what I mean.
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They're kind of like the forgotten element of real estate, because in real estate it's so much about the top line, the revenue.
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So you know, leasing gets a lot of attention, All these different like point solutions around driving revenue.
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That gets a lot more attention than building technology for the people who are the backbone of real estate, which is your operator, you know, especially multifamily.
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It takes a lot of people to run a site and your vendors.
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Vendors are in every single asset of real estate asset class.
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They're the ones that keep the buildings going.
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So we're building technology to help them get insurance, get paid, get verified that they can work on site, become compliant and then build their business.
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It's a really cool portfolio.
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I mean, I'm just looking at the website again, but you've got a mix of like AI and tokenization stuff here.
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You've got Job Call, which is like AI assistant for property management.
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You have Get Done the operating system for maintenance.
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I'm sure that that sounds like managing, like what tasks need to be done, like for larger property owners.
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And then you have OwnProp, which is like a platform for buying and selling tokenized real estate, and this is one that people are pretty interested in and I've seen happening on Solana at least with like Homebase and a few others.
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That's pretty cool and I think it's interesting like the market's so huge for that that it's easy to have multiple platforms and players that are doing that and still have like pretty big businesses, it would see, at least on paper.
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And then there's like ID course Protect your Business for Risk with AI-powered vendor compliance.
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There's so many different niches and it's like I guess, like which thing are you most excited about out of the portfolio that you guys have built?
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It's kind of like having 10 babies.
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You know it's hard to choose like well, who's your favorite child?
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I have four kids.
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You know it's like I would say I'm marginally more excited.
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I'm excited by them all, but I'm marginally more excited by own prop will be probably one of my tops because you know I'm very mission focused in my business mindset.
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We're all working so damn hard, you know, if there's no mission behind it, like what keeps you going.
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You know own prop is a platform that its intention is to democratize real estate investment, the access to great, you know high quality real estate investment offerings.
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That should be not just the playground of the rich.
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You know what I mean.
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That should be offered to people who are actually doing the work at a hotel.
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Or a vendor who is working at a you know multifamily site might say, hey, you know what this property looks like.
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A winner, I want to invest in this.
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You know they should have that opportunity, just like if they're using Amazon every day, they can go on Robinhood and go buy a piece of that of that business.
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It should be the same way for real estate investments and tokenization.
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I just read somewhere some person on I think it was on Twitter, or Axe was saying it's growing as fast as the internet was in, like the early 90s.
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You know so.
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Yeah, I mean, wasn't it the CEO of BlackRock or something?
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The other day was like talking about the Bitcoin ETF and he said you know, the next thing is tokenization of everything.
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And he called that out, which I thought was pretty cool, Really cool, and that's probably one of the biggest AUM firms in the world right Like 9 trillion or something crazy.
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The Bitcoin ETF I've heard it's outpacing Silver now in terms of being the second biggest ETF.
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It's just, things are moving really fast.
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You know we're part of the mix and we want to make sure that this is it's going to happen and it's going to unfold over, I think, three to five years We'll see more adoption, but then 10 and 20 years, like we even have that long range vision where we want to be part of this democratization of real estate.
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We want to be right at the center of it and evangelize it, get people on the platform.
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Hopefully, as investors, they make a lot of money and that's what we're about.
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It's kind of cool to see the product Like so this is the own prop product and it's a sub company of Rex.
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When the URL for people who are curious is rexcom, rexcom, we can get into the background of Rex briefly.
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And I know you're a partner.
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You're a partner at Rex, right?
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Yes, correct.
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So you're a partner at Rex and you like kind of help manage some of these portfolio companies, that sort of your role.
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Yeah, we have a team that runs each company basically and they're incentivized as basically hopefully like earning to becoming a founder at each company.
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But, yeah, so Pete Rex is the force behind, he's the founder and chairman.
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I've been his business partner for 18 years, so I've been part of all this from inception stage.
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So really think of myself as like a co-founder or a partner.
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I'm involved generally.
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Yeah.
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Like I went to the listings here, like if you're wanting to invest in some of these properties, it looks like everything is fully funded.
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You've done some tests here.
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How does it work?
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Like if this campaign for, like, the iconic hotel Ella near the University of Texas was live, I click on it and I got to probably sign in.
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But how does it work from here?
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If I want to invest, am I paying in cash?
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Just walk me through the process here On ownpropcom, which is the web version, or there's an app.
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It's in the app store.
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You can get on there.
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We want it to be a very clean user experience, almost like a retail type of experience, because over time, we want the ability for people to just get a $100 piece of an investment, a high quality real estate investment.
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That just doesn't exist, right, because the stated minimums on almost every site you're going to see is like $25,000 would be the lowest, and it's because there's so many moving pieces to transacting in real estate and fractionalizing it.
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Real estate already is very fractionalized because every large deal is going to have like probably a lot of investors, right?
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So in a way, it's already fractionalized.
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What we're doing is using blockchain to ease the transaction costs and increase the liquidity of you, whoever buys this token, and I can explain a little bit how you get that token.
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If you buy that token and you want to trade out of the asset in two years, well, we want to have like a very liquid kind of secondary offering site where you can sell that Instead of waiting for the sponsor the real estate sponsor who owns that deal to trade out of that asset and fully get you liquid.
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We want to have almost like a stock exchange, where there's buyers and sellers, they're mixing it up and they're trading.
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I like how you had the percentages right here and you can say that.
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Okay.
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So this one says 19.7 projected IRR.
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And if I don't really know what IRR is although you probably should, if you're on this site you can read that and figure that out, because you've got the educational materials right there.
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And then you've got this 2.21x equity multiple, which I actually is total cash distributed received from an investment.
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So this is like hey, over time, if you hold it for five years, I'll earn 2.21, the value of what I put in.
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And that's where, down at the bottom you scroll down here.
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It's like hey, if I put in 25k, it's projected I'll get 55k, based on two things.
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One is this 7.8% cash yield, which is like it's going to throw off cash flow from just the business making money and paying you guys as investors, including whoever bought this token.
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And then, if you sold it in five years, that's where the rest of that 2.21X comes from, cause you're gonna sell it.
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I think it says down here there's a thousand tokens being sold.
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So token economics we're looking down here at the bottom of the financials.
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So the assets were 26 million.
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It makes 1.8 million a year.
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You're gonna sell a token called PLA, and then you're gonna sell a thousand of them, or 1,070, which, at $100 per token, is $107,000.
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So you weren't like taking a ton of cash here.
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This is like just an early example, I'm guessing.
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But yeah, so doing that, that's kind of how you calculate the return.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, you know, you know that all of that was spot on and our ecosystem wrecks probably.
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Speaking, the way I think about it is like there's three pieces of it.
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We're talking about the tech side today, so there's a real estate tech, but then we have a real estate investment platform and, like I said in the past, we bought about $2 billion in assets.
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Now we're in a new entity because we see new buying opportunity.
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We're buying deals again.
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This was the first deal we bought as ATX acquisition.
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So Pete Rex, this one, yeah, this one called Ella, yes, iconic hotels.
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It's near UT Austin and so this is a proof of concept.
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We only did raise 107,000.
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This way, Total equity raise was over 10 million.
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So you just see this as a test and it's kind of interesting because you have your own portfolio that you can then add as the supply.
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So you solve like one half of the problems like getting supply of properties to tokenize, and then for ATX you're kind of getting some liquidity here right Cause you're selling off pieces of it.
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Yeah, exactly so it's synergistic for both teams kind of benefit.
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But this is part of a broader mission and right now.
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So you had to be accredited to be and the way we did this.
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Offering is a Reg D5 to 6C and that means to come into it even if you're just buying a thousand dollar token or a hundred dollar token, whatever we offered.
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I think we went down to a hundred dollars at Ella, which is awesome.
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It's incredible.
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So this was already totally compliant.
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It's totally compliant, I mean, I guess the only thing there is like you know how do you think about this?
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So if you, if I tokenize the asset, it's sitting in my wallet technically because it's on our arbitram.
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I saw that and noticed that in looking through.
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But it doesn't really matter what chain you're on unless it's a permission to change.
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So if you're on arbitram or Solana or Ethereum, like wherever you're tokenizing it, that asset is once it's in my wallet, I can take it off platform.
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I don't know how you guys had thought through that or not, but you know technically I could trade that.
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You wouldn't want the exchange to be totally permissionless.
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If it has to be accredited investors, right, like it needs to be accredited investors to do that.
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There's a bunch of things we have to work around there, but the perfect world is that the SEC opens it up because, for the benefit of the audience, an accredited investor in the US is someone who has to make $200,000 if they're single, right, and $300,000 if you're married, and that's a pretty high bar.
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You know A lot of people that have investable cash are not gonna meet that requirement.
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And then there's a net worth threshold you can hit too, but even that's very high.
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And you did these all as reg A's.
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You did each one of these examples I think there were like four or five in there you did all as reg A.
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That's how you structured it.
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No, we have done a lot of legal work and we've gone down that kind of rabbit hole that requires SEC approval doing a reg A offering.
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These are reg D 506C, so that's why you need to have accredited folks are the only ones able to come in Right, right sorry yeah, yeah, a reg A, I believe, is open to anyone.
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We're gonna redevelop Ella and it's a 47 hotel room.
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They call it keys 47 keys.
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Today it's gonna be 215.
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We have already approved us to do that.
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So once the debt markets kind of change, we'll redevelop that hotel.
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You'll refinance it and then use the cash to build out.
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Recap it we'll leave it and that might be a great opportunity for us to do a reg A offering, because it'll need a lot of capital and then you can open that up to non-accredited folks.
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This is in the kind of still the it works.
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You were able to actually use the platform to sell that 100K, even if you guys were your own buyer, you like.
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Logistically it was able to work.
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I mean, did other people buy it?
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Was it people non-affiliated with ATX that actually went in and bought the for this test run?
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Was it like other random people that, like, bought these tokens?
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Yeah, totally, we did.
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Seven, I think are on the website that were fully funded.
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It's about a million dollars we raised, which is not a lot of money, right, guys?
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It's in the real private equity world that's like a drop in the bucket.
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And so many of those deals I think three of them or two or three of them are ATX, like the ones that our team sponsors, we know it and then some of them are other sponsors that just got vetted and got onto the platform.
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So, yes, those folks that are invested in those deals are not just people.
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We know.
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We did a lot of marketing, we did a lot of outreach, went to events and people just found it and they were like, yeah, you know, great, I want to be an early adopter or a blockchain technology applied to real estate, or I like that particular asset, let me get into it.
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I think it's a great investment.
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One thing I've always liked about blockchain technology with real world assets in general, but especially real estate.
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Like I think I told you about this before, I had this whole idea of how to tokenize mortgages.
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I don't know if I shared the link with you, but I wrote something up about it, Like I think I told them more about research.
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Yeah, I read your wich paper.
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I did, I did like a ton of rat.
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I wouldn't call it quite a white paper but yeah, I wrote a pretty long research paper on it.
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A great paper, yeah, A great paper.
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For me, the automation of the payments is just really interesting.
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That and the tracking of the actual paper, because these are physical assets, right, Even a mortgage.
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The paper is held somewhere.
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I didn't know that until I started researching the mortgage industry, but the whole secondary market for mortgages everything about mortgages is physical paper.
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It's actually custodied somewhere, which is insane.
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These are physical assets.
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I own like one key by buying.
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That's actually kind of fun if you sell them as like unique keys, which would be more like an NFT than a fungible token.
00:16:47.562 --> 00:16:51.441
But I digress Are you guys actually paying out those Cause?
00:16:51.441 --> 00:16:55.349
I don't know how long ago this was, but it's like six, seven percent cash flow from this property.
00:16:55.349 --> 00:16:59.291
So if I put in 100K, I should make 100K.
00:16:59.291 --> 00:17:03.991
I should make like seven grand a year on that 100K, right, that's seven percent.
00:17:03.991 --> 00:17:06.407
So are you guys paying that out on chain right now?
00:17:06.407 --> 00:17:12.048
Or are you just like mailing the token holder a check or like handling that manually that way?
00:17:12.048 --> 00:17:13.305
Like how are you doing that right now?
00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:14.884
The vision is to be able to.
00:17:14.884 --> 00:17:17.230
The person can select any way they want.
00:17:17.230 --> 00:17:20.710
Right, they can get paid in Bitcoin or Solana or whatever.
00:17:20.710 --> 00:17:25.987
But right now, it's all ACH that we have your bank account and we'll just like a regular real estate.
00:17:27.009 --> 00:17:27.210
Yeah.
00:17:27.210 --> 00:17:32.587
So the MVP here was like can we tokenize this asset and will anyone spend any money on it?
00:17:32.587 --> 00:17:38.288
And the answer was yes, we can tokenize it and yes, we got like a million dollars in sales volume.
00:17:38.288 --> 00:17:47.903
What's next Like and what do you need to do to get to the next level here, where you have sort of the full vision of like a marketplace and like multiple payment options for the cash flows?
00:17:47.903 --> 00:17:49.384
What do you need to do next?
00:17:50.319 --> 00:18:10.625
I think we have to keep listing very high quality opportunities, investment offerings onto the platform and then just keep evangelizing so you get, you know, we get actual customers and we are kind of unique, like you said, in terms of we can, we can seed the platform with deals that we know and I'm personally investing in all those deals, so I know they're good deals.
00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:25.647
And then it's about, you know, getting people to ownpropcom and checking it out and making sure that they start transacting there and then, over time, having this kind of secondary, the liquidity to be able to trade in and out of.
00:18:25.647 --> 00:18:29.284
Let's say, alex, who bought a coin for $1,000 and you know it's worth.
00:18:29.284 --> 00:18:37.728
Our projections were said it was going to be worth 2005 years, maybe it's 2002 years and you want to take your gains off the table and someone else comes along.
00:18:37.728 --> 00:18:40.586
We need someone else to come along and say, how about that token for 2000?
00:18:40.586 --> 00:18:41.681
You know.
00:18:41.681 --> 00:18:49.646
So this is going to be a long build out, but there's groups that are that are proving it and I applaud all those groups because it's just getting more people into.
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:56.886
If you found a team that was like farther along I mean, given your size, like you have to have the capital to just buy a team if you wanted to.
00:18:56.886 --> 00:19:05.622
You know early stage or something, or invest in a couple of teams that do it like is that something that the parent company would be interested in or that people should reach out to you about?
00:19:06.324 --> 00:19:07.106
We're opportunistic.
00:19:07.106 --> 00:19:10.545
We love to talk to people just to create relationships and see what's out there.
00:19:10.545 --> 00:19:11.865
Yes, we could do something like that.
00:19:11.865 --> 00:19:14.805
You know, I think, much like you, you have a lot of things going on.
00:19:14.805 --> 00:19:25.087
We just had so many things that we had launched at one time that only probably kind of got a pause, especially when, like crypto winter happened, there was a little bit less activity and interest.
00:19:25.087 --> 00:19:27.445
Even going to conferences became different.
00:19:27.445 --> 00:19:30.709
Right, it was like more quiet, more everyone was a little bit.
00:19:30.709 --> 00:19:35.007
Plus, the tech world got the biggest shock it had got since 2001.
00:19:35.007 --> 00:19:51.367
So it was this patchy area where we kind of just decided to pause not deprecate, but pause own prop a little bit and focus on some of the other ones that were that were getting a more immediate market fit, because own prop takes a lot of you got to generate attention to get onto the site.
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:53.025
I love the idea for own prop.
00:19:53.025 --> 00:19:56.605
I do think it's a little bit early because there's just a couple of.
00:19:56.605 --> 00:19:58.205
I think the technology's finally there.
00:19:58.205 --> 00:20:01.085
Like, the technology is where you need it to be to make own prop work.
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