Inside "The Flash" Web3 Movie Experience with Eluvio's CEO Michelle Munson

Speaker 1: 0:04

Welcome to the index podcast hosted by Alex Gajaya. Plug in as we explore new fronties with web three and the decentralized feature.

Speaker 2: 0:19

Hey, everyone, and welcome to the index brought to you by the graph, where we talk with the entrepreneurs building a next wave of the Internet. We do this because we believe that people are worth knowing. We believe in telling their stories so that you can learn why they are here pushing for a better future. Today, I'm excited to welcome Michelle Munson, CEO of Eluvio, where she's built what's called the content fabric. This is not an understatement when I say this. The content fabric is the most advanced content delivery technology on the Internet. It is super cool, and I'm very happy to have Michelle here to share more about what they're building in Olivia. Thanks so much for being here.

Speaker 3: 0:59

Oh, thanks for having me, Alex. Very excited.

Speaker 2: 1:02

So let's start at the beginning. Tell me how you got here doing what you're doing. I know that before Olivia, you were invented and, like, worked on some similar technology. I kinda wanna go all the way back because that sets the stage of, like, why you're here, so tell us about that.

Speaker 3: 1:18

Yeah. I've been working in content over the Internet. Most of my call it durable life. After grad school, I got into the startup era that was beginning of CDNs. I ended up starting a company in two thousand and three called Aspera, which created a, at that time, a solution for transporting bulk data like heavy video and whatnot over long haul Internet networks much faster and more efficiently than standard TCP. And it was an application software. So you could run it on top of standard TCP IP networks. It was really a thing of its time. It ended up being adopted quite widely for video file transfer, genomics data transfer, and across quite a few industries and Over the course of fourteen or so years, I built up that company with our core team. We ultimately sold that company to IBM. In the duration of that video change radically over the Internet. And along with just the way it was being done, it became from the in the very beginning of Aspera, you know, there weren't even streaming services like we think of today. Our first major customer, Aspera, was Apple iTunes, actually, they were introduced to our technology to basically solve the problems between business to business file transfers at that time. And if you think about where video was on the Internet, then, I mean, you were just beginning to see what became this giant consumer economy around streaming content. And over, you know, two thousand three to two thousand and what? Fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, we all know what happened and we ended up with not only a lot of video being most of the bytes on the Internet, but we also ended up with the entire sort of Internet ecosystem being sort of centered around the currency of content. And then the biggest players grew up to either directly deal in video like YouTube or they use video as a sort of means to their bigger ends like Apple does today to sell their devices or Amazon does today to get you on their Prime subscriptions. And the reason I'm saying all this is because during that time, this whole, not just the supply chain, but the economics of that, we felt like, called for a different sort of clean slate approach that would Think of video differently. I mean, for one thing, really make it possible for it to be hyper efficient. Another thing to take away this sort of assumed dominance of the intermediary platform between the publisher and the audience. And then I think finally to sort of unlock the fact that you could use decentralized blockchain technology to directly own and monetize the content. That kind of brings us probably to the next question you'll ask me, which is why this thing called the content fabric? And what does it have to do really with media on the blockchain? And so

Speaker 2: 4:18

That is exactly my next question. But I think content delivery networks is what a CDN stands for, and it is literally, like, what gets the pixels to your screen. And the content fabric is something kinda similar, but it's got, like, web free values infused into it. So expand on that. Like, you're getting pixels to screen, but in a way that, like, is more about the future data which is web three.

Speaker 3: 4:42

Yeah. How does that work? Yeah. So first of all, the content fabrics, the utility blockchain. So it's a full blockchain network. And what I mean by that is Everything that happens in it is organized through a blockchain, and we actually wrote the software as a fork of standard Ethereum. With a content portion of the content fabric protocol is also fully decentralized. And the main idea of it is that the network has all the capability through the software to be able to not only store the content assets and to give secure ownership, but also to be able to dynamically generate like programmable smart contracts allow us to do, for example, to dynamically generate the content from its source. And that happens In the protocol, it also derives directly from the blockchain security. One of the other, I think, sort of big takeaways in the fabric as compared to traditional CDN networks is that everything inside of that network ends up being an object that can create and serve its own outputs. And all of those individual components or parts are not actually duplicated as they are moving through the network and as they're stored. And that gives it efficiency that we don't have in traditional CDNs. For example, to cut through the chase, I mean, it's carbon footprint rise fifty times more efficient than you would think of in a typical streaming network. And then along with that, it also ensures that all of that content's ownership is actually native to the content itself. So people in blockchain understand this very well because the whole notion of blockchains is that we can have not only direct ownership ourselves, but that any transaction that we have with the other party is from us to that party. Same thing happens when content objects create new outputs. So for example, if you go buy something that I publish onto the content fabric, the offering from the objects that you're consuming, is number one, owned directly by you. You're authorized based on your address. And then all the mechanics that actually serve that output to you are governed by. Actual contracts that are part of each object. So to boil it all down, it's both a blockchain and it's also a decentralized content storage and streaming network.

Speaker 2: 6:59

I mean, it's amazing. What's interesting too about it is the economics of the network help it grow. Right? So That's exactly right. That needs to be delivered the more people are gonna wanna put down the pipes, the physical infrastructure that needs to be there. And this is something I've become kind of obsessed about since, like, twenty sixteen. So I wasn't gotten in this space, like, that actual physical infrastructure of the network. And there's a lot of things at play. It's like this decentralized economy around content delivery that you guys have built is actually what's gonna fund the pipes, the physical infrastructure. Let's just give people a concrete example. We could use this podcast as an example. Like, I could upload the entire video of this recording of the show to the fabric and have it distributed across the entire anybody who wants to, like, host it and show it, could show it, you know, I would get paid for that if if it's monetized. Right? So

Speaker 3: 7:50

That's exactly right. And I wanna add one more point to this. First of all, the whole idea of the protocol is that when you publish it's available, your podcast is available to any authorized user to consume on demand. That's never been done before. That's sort of just in timeless. And then the second is what you got at Alex, which is the fact that you can then really exploit the contract veracity. Of the content to extend that with things like stakeholder payments. And for example, we have a stakeholder contract that allows for anyone who owns into that option to get paid. So for example, when you're publishing and I'm listening, my listen, for example, can actually pay you and anyone else that is involved in that publishing process. It's a lot of technology and there's no doubt that it weaves many things together. It's something that's become quite mature and has huge utility, and now we're starting to get into some really interesting first of a kind medium blockchain projects that use it.

Speaker 2: 8:46

Yeah. I think it's really incredible. Like, people need content. Right? And and there are people of the creators out there who produce this content all the time. And I think that right now, like, all that content is kinda siloed and owned by Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. Right? And, like TikTok. Like, I use all these platforms for for this show and I have to upload the assets individually every time to every show, which is really annoying. And then on top of that, I don't I don't own those channels. Like, they can just shut me down, you know. Exactly.

Speaker 3: 9:19

That's exactly it. And I think blockchain folks, this is a sort of a a step I think of understanding for the whole community is that folks really expect to be able to own in their assets be they non fungible tokens or cryptocurrency that they hold. Why is that not also true for their digital assets? What they create? And the point of the content fabric is to bring those principles directly into the content itself. And this is really important if you look at the gigantic monetization of media. I mean, almost all the money on the Internet is made around media content. One way or another, it's either direct by selling it to you or just having you subscribe to it or indirect. By advertising on the back of it. And I I think this this is the real deeper insight to sort of change things for the better. Finally is the audience. Right? The audience is always a pawn and all of that in traditional social media. Everybody knows they're tracked and traced and Fortunately, it's beginning harder and harder to actually scale that because privacy laws have gotten stricter, but we could solve all of it just by having users signing on with their wallets. And one thing I wanted to mention about this, I mean, our main end user application is our video wallet, which is a full crypto wallet, full EVM signer, compatible with MetAas signing that also gives you authorization to, you know, enjoy and stream your content that's on the fabric that you want.

Speaker 2: 10:44

So it's your identity.

Speaker 3: 10:45

Is this also your media wallet? Meaning where you can experience it? It's both. Right? It's your CryptoSign or your identity and your media experience.

Speaker 2: 10:52

I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, the network effects that content can create and the applications that you need in order to get the audience, right, to reach the audience. How are you guys looking at that problem? Because you're you are a protocol. You have the pipes to get to the end users, but then you need people to you need people to, like, actually display the content using your technical stack. Right? So you can build the apps or you can get partners to to do it. So, like, walk me through how you're approaching that that issue?

Speaker 3: 11:20

So it's such a great question because we're a pure technology platform. At the lowest level, the fabric is a main net lock chain. You can actually go to the RPC interfaces, query those just like main at Ethereum, and get back the same API risk thoughts as you do for any other EBM network. It's also a network of nodes that run the software protocol as any other blockchain, some of which do content fabric functions, some of which do block validation. Right? Then you've got on top of that a way to make it useful to creators. And we ended up as Eluvio, the company, building an API layer that lets publishers basically publish their content, set it up for tokenized authorization, be it on our chain or cross chain, media wallets that allow you to consume the media, and we just released one of those for tvOS. This is first time to do that on the TVs in addition to the browser. And then the last piece around that is what you would call the tooling to have your own kind of brandable marketplaces, storefronts, white labeled video stores and otherwise tokenized media experiences, live streaming events, for example. That's what we've done to commercialize this for creators big and small. One of the biggest challenges, and I think you nailed it, is that this is a whole new model for people because it really allows for direct distribution. From the publisher to the audience. And it opens up so many new possibilities, which also lead to lots and lots of experiments as how to best use it. And We have some projects that are very famous. They have done super interesting things like the Dolly Parton livestream. For example, they're in South by Southwest on the platform. To this latest stuff with the movies from Warner Bros. Such as the Flash that just released. And then a lot of independent projects that are, for instance, live streams that are just done by singers. For example, we've had multiple live streaming shows that are basically streamed through the fabric and ticketed through the facilities of that API layer, which is basically all blockchain based ticketing. It's a range of different use cases. And I think the biggest and most important thing of all is to for us is technologies to keep growing the capabilities of the platform for people, and then to have people experiment in a dot Right? And I think we're very much the early stages of that.

Speaker 2: 13:34

I think, like, awareness is a really big issue. Like, like, creators who are active on, again, Instagram TikTok right now. For one, they don't realize until it's a problem. Right? They don't realize until their account gets shut down that this is a big deal that they don't actually own the content they're creating or the audience. Like, they can't just port it to some other app. You're starting to see things like Eluvio, I think I I saw, like, somebody who runs, like, threads or Instagram even talking about doing something like this where, like, you can take your audience with you. I mean, Blue Sky, right, Jack Dorsey's thing, this idea, like, portable audiences. And I think, like, creators are just becoming aware of the fact that this is even possible.

Speaker 3: 14:11

Yeah. There's also the bigger issue, I think, even beyond audience affordability is profitability. Right? Everybody knows that it's extremely difficult to make money with creative work unless you have super scale. And even the super scale companies are having trouble with this right out. You've seen everybody seen how difficult it is to make money off of streaming. And one of the big problems that are need that is there just isn't the efficiency in a platform to let people have smaller audiences and still make a profit. One of the great things about the fabric is that it makes that possible. You can actually have, you know, a smaller fan base and still have a profitable distribution. Along with that, I think you can also magnify that super fan And one thing we've just discovered as we've been doing these movie releases, I wasn't sure if it was true, but it seems to be in the data that you can actually have a superfan group that is distinguished from everybody else that spends more, actually spends more dollars. And also engages more with that content. And you can know who those people are based on their wallet addresses. And then from there, there are as I'm sure most of your listeners can can think of an unlimited set of possibilities for how you can really grow and cultivate that super fan base. The problem with traditional media platforms like social is, number one, how do you ever know who those people are? You don't. Two, how do you establish any direct and portable relationship with those people that you can further incentivize and grow on? Right? And three, you don't keep your profits. Right? Not to mention the fact that the way that a lot of content distribution is done in a traditional way is very wasteful and expensive.

Speaker 2: 15:48

The composability part of it is super important for people to understand because your audience now has a wallet tied to their identity, they can take that wallet anywhere it's supported, which is I mean, in web three, that's pretty much everywhere, especially if you're like an EV if you're an EVM chain, you know, it can be pretty much everywhere. Actually, the episode that launched today on Stappable domain is a really cool identity product too. You're aware of that. But, like, the thing that they've done is that's very interesting is you just get, like, your TLD, like, Sandy, the COO, there is sandy dot n f t. And when you send an asset to it, their API automatically routes it to whatever chain that that that asset is from. The so the user does not even have to think about, like, from the cross chain standpoint, doesn't even have to think about it.

Speaker 3: 16:31

And he gets out where it's going. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:32

Yeah. And you guys have actually achieved that with the access piece. So you talked about ticketing earlier,

Speaker 3: 16:37

Yes. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:38

Just to lean into that, like, Eluvio allows, like, the content creator, whether it's an enterprise or individual, you can sell tickets that allow people to access your content online, and that's on any chain that's supported. I know you support like Solana and all the EVM ones. Right?

Speaker 3: 16:52

Everything, but this is a part of the content fabric. I I kinda skipped over early on, and it's worth knowing. So each of these content objects itself has a contract that backs it. And folks from IPFS will relate to this from a storage perspective, a version hash that is actually identifying unique content itself. It's by for example. That base contract and the content object does more though than just store its current version hash. It also provides for authorization. To that content. And you can also have data because these content objects or data and their media and their code can also have data that expresses a policy. And that policy can encode requirements for the authorization. So now you've got this versioned object that's backed by an on chain contract for which some of that data is actually a policy that governs its authorization. And what this lets you do is then codify you will rules or statements so that any client that's coming in with an attestation that's signed, right, blockchain signatures coming in sign can then be verified against that policy to say, does this coming in request actually own this NFT on this blockchain. Does this particular requester, for example, own a set of multiple sets of NFTs on a given blockchain. Another policy might be a geographic window. Does this client presenting this request resolve to a geo that is within this window policy? And with these international film releases, The requirement is that the policy be met for not only NFT ownership, but also in window geography, for example. Same thing with the livestream rewatched. Is it in the window of when the rewatch is available? Reason I'm showing all these examples because that's a generalizable mechanism, that authorization. Capability. And then what we've done as if you remember before you asked me, what kind of tooling do we give to creators? Well, we've taken advantage of these policies to make a bunch of different block tools for tickets, and if TV based authorization, for example, and these kinds of creative windowing based policies. And you can tap into any of those directly in the fabric itself without having to do anything. Cross chain wise, the cross chain authorization supports everything. Ethereum may not Polygon, Solana, you name it.

Speaker 2: 19:17

I mean, that's huge both for these, like, enterprise media companies like Warner Brothers but also for, like, individual creators. You just

Speaker 3: 19:24

gave -- Absolutely.

Speaker 1: 19:25

--

Speaker 2: 19:25

the whole spectrum just, like, granular very granular control of how people access the content. I mean, I did not know that about the geolocation piece. That is very cool.

Speaker 3: 19:35

I know I'm talking a lot about flash, but it just happened and I want people it's worth knowing this. So This is the the first feature films to ever been released on the blockchain, the fabric being the blockchain distribution network. It's Warner Bros. Flash. This particular release coincides with the digital release in all the countries around the world on no regular streaming services. The requirement there is that the window of availability match the availability on the standard streaming services. So how are we doing that? We're doing that through these policies. In the one content object, for example, with the feature film that then is used to serve out on demand. To every single streamer around the world. What's great about this? Number one, the granularity applies just on the source. So you don't have to do any work down on the clients, super efficient. It's also great because that it gives you the ability to tie directly to the encryption. So if someone's going to sign on and get access to this film, it's secure. Only a person who's actually bought ownership in it can actually stream it. Decrypt and have it re encrypted for DRM, for example. And then the last thing that's really great if you think about the cost model. And this this is really where, you know, this this huge change in CDNs come into play is you've got one object that's serving all of those international versions and they're dynamically built when you make your request. So if you're watching from France and somebody else is watching from the UK and somebody else is watching from Thailand, Each of those international versions is actually built, if you will, to that player at the time of the request. And that saves a ton on the bytes and the storage that goes in this, which goes back to what I was saying earlier about really shifting the economics of of how content's distributed just to help everybody.

Speaker 2: 21:20

Well, I mean, we kinda said this really quickly, but that's like the big the big headline here is the flash getting released simultaneously on all the other major platforms. On your platform, on the fabric first time ever that a major motion picture has been released on chain essentially. I mean, the exciting

Speaker 3: 21:36

That that that's exactly right. And this is really interesting for people, and it's different than people might expect. First of all, Olivier doesn't license any of the content for Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers distributes it directly to the consumers. And the consumers in this case are not just streamers, the consumers are blockchain owners. When you purchase the movieverse experience, it's minted as an ERC seven twenty one and NFT. On the Oluvio mainnet, your wallet owns that and the media wallet gives you the experience to watch it all. Watch the feature film, the full, you know, two hour four k feature film, and to also then experience all of these extras and interactive experience with all of these unlocks in it, as well as a lot of bonus footage and also galleries. In this way, the first time it's been possible to own a new release feature film this way on chain. It's also the first time a studio has had the boldness to actually put it out in an NFT window. That's really what this is. And then finally, the media wallet, I really want to speak to this because I think it makes a lot of difference to making this mainstream. The media wall, it's also available on Apple TV. So when you watch, you're not just in your browser or on your phone, but you can actually have an entertainment experience. So when you log in, you could log in with email or with Metamask dot com.

Speaker 2: 22:57

Really on

Speaker 3: 22:58

Apple TV. On Apple TV. So we actually released right before the drop just a little plug for anybody thinking about the flash, go to if you have an Apple TV, go to the tvOS store, download the Olivia Media Wallet for tvOS, and you can watch it there. Directly. That full That

Speaker 2: 23:14

is so cool. Yeah. And if you watch it there directly, you actually own that experience. Is this, like, a limited supply? Are there, like, a number, like, how many people can buy it? Yeah. Okay.

Speaker 3: 23:22

Yes. Yeah. And and, like, all web three projects. I mean, Warner Bros. Has said all of those terms. There is that there's two thousand of the premium edition and I think they have ten thousand of their mystery edition. What's interesting though is unlike, you know, what people have often bought as NFT is these are media bundles that have, first of all, a lot of high value media, including the film. And then one other thing I I really wanna say Alex that I will come in, you know, a lot of times, or traditional companies don't necessarily stretch out as much as Warner has done in this case. They actually created a whole new format of interactive experiences, which are typically built in gaming engines. In this case, the interactive was built in unity And it has hotspots that, first of all, it's unlocked as part of the experience. You can access it directly on your phone or directly on the browser. It runs well. Good job fabric and serving it fast. And then it has these hotspots in it that will actually play out video and extras and various AR objects Those will load on demand. And again, all of this is only possible for the wallet holder, not anyone else. Right? This is, of course, a first of a kind kind of format. They're learning. We're learning. But it really, I think, is something for folks following this space to consider part of history.

Speaker 2: 24:39

Yeah. No. It's a really big deal. I mean, I think the thing that you said that really resonated for me was that owning the experience. It's you guys have taken something that has really worked in web three, which is like these limited supply, like, collectible drops, you know. Like, it's gone really viral in web three, these, like, generative drops. Right? Limited supply drop. It's just take it's not generative, I don't think. Right? But it's like you're selling a ticket to access and or is it

Speaker 3: 25:02

This happens to also be generative. It's what miss in both the mystery and the premium edition is variable in terms of the assets that you get inside. So, yes,

Speaker 2: 25:13

you get a true collectible for the fan base. Yes. As long as you hold that asset in your wallet, you own access to the experience. It's a limited experience that, like, only you can give anyone else who's with you watching in your Apple Tea access to, which is like I mean, the in real life example I can think of. It's like, imagine that there was a theme park of, like, your favorite movie and, like, only ten thousand people would be able to have access to it. And you had to hold this pass to get access to it.

Speaker 3: 25:37

That's exactly right. And the media is integrated with the NFT. I think that's the other big break from what has been a lot of web three because it's As we all know, a lot of work throughs are very awkward for people. It doesn't feel smooth, and you have to take the thing that you've gotten over here to get the thing that the utility, it's supposed to give you. And this, it's all together. Oh, by the way, I have to tell you this. There are two redeemable offers. Those also redeem on chain dynamically when you click them. And they are redeemable only by the current wallet holder. So when you redeem them, you get back your QR code. One gives you a d c comic. The other one gives you a fan flicks discount. If you then start selling your n f t movie experience on the secondary market place when it opens. If you've already redeemed, the next holder will not be able to do so. It's a true on chain redemption. If you chose not to, when you're selling it, the next holder can.

Speaker 2: 26:31

Interesting. So do you guys have, like, something in the UI that lets them know whether or not they

Speaker 3: 26:36

Yeah. You can see it. Yes. You can actually see it today.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Value that the asset probably Right? Like, you're like, one that still has them, you know, you can get it. You can get access to it. And there's all sorts of crazy things you could do with that too because when you redeem something, you could give them another collectible randomly generated. Then you get this, like, lottery thing. Right? Where there's this psychology. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 26:55

Yes. Yeah. And I and I think this also helps people to understand why would major companies in the creative space want to experiment with this? And I I think the engagement possibilities are really astounding especially when there is a core group of people that really care enough to both watch and to also purchase. And, you know, without making it too much about the monetization, that's really the super fan that every advertiser is truly after. Right? And I think that is the vector in which web three is gonna explode with content because I wanna

Speaker 2: 27:29

I wanna go back to one thing that you said earlier too. So because you're touching on it here, You mentioned you didn't license the content.

Speaker 3: 27:35

No. We don't. It's Warner to Audience.

Speaker 2: 27:37

Right? That yeah. And that is because You're just a content fabric delivering content to the end customer and the wallet address lets them own the experience.

Speaker 3: 27:47

Correct. Correct.

Speaker 2: 27:48

And and that's where it's so interesting. Right? Like, it's a it's a totally different business model.

Speaker 3: 27:52

It's a totally different business model. And the reason I wanna say this is so important is it makes that purity of ownership. First of all, it makes it explicit. And secondly, it's one to one, just like we always know on blockchain. And I think people tend to think when it's major companies like a major studio, it can't possibly be this way. Well, it is. If you imagine that, sort of, like, broadening itself out to all the creative work, then you really can see where where this can get get us something new.

Speaker 2: 28:19

I'm gonna throw like a stake in the ground here. This is like the holy grail. I really hope it works for Warner Brothers and for you guys because this, like, virtuous cycle of of of, like, direct connection to the audience and, like, and the distribution mechanism and the, like, economics around it. Is the thing that crypto, like, web three has been searching for this kind of application. And and and you guys have tied it together, like, the technologies and the economics have been tied together a really unique way. It's very impressive.

Speaker 3: 28:48

That is all true, but what we really need, I mean, no no single company is is ever gonna move the needle on any of this alone. Right? The most important thing is awareness. People to see what it is and to become part of it and to know about it. And technology companies can only do so much in that regards that we really, you know, appreciate everyone who wants to be part?

Speaker 2: 29:09

Well, so we're getting towards the top of the show, and I I always ask this question to all my guests, what have I not asked you that I should have asked?

Speaker 3: 29:17

Oh, man. You asked me a lot of great questions, but you didn't ask me about live content. You talked a little bit about Twitch in the beginning, and I wanna share a little bit on this side. So one of the most interesting things I think is the breadth of the ranges content that are out there. Obviously, we've got what people have thought of as sort of episodic content in movies, and we've also got music in abundance that's being now sort experimented with on the blockchain. Of course, live content has been always the holy grail of everything because it's what's going on here and now. First of all, the one thing I would say on just the side of, yes, the fabric can do it is it serves life content. Awesome. Meaning globally, as you serve as you publish that stream and with very low latency. What's really up to the community of creators and audience to take advantage of is then what to do with that? Because all these principles that we've been talking about with direct engagement can be unlocked. And one of our partners, for example, is that a dance fight, and they have a application that is somewhat of a competitor to TikTok. They're a new upstart. One of the goals that they have is to be able to take advantage of the technology of the fabric to be able to give direct attribution to the published, you know, dance fights, if you will, the videos. And then to also be able to have the monetization side tie back to the directly to the competitors, and most of that is live. I think that sort of thing can go everywhere. And then on the bigger media space, I think it's worth everybody listening this to know that because there's been so much movement of live content to these kind of free and ad supported channels. Right? You probably hear about those. They're going everywhere. You know, Netflix Hulu, etcetera. Here yet again, we need a new model so that the audience what they're getting is actually meaningful and there's not just a passive ad being shoved into the stream for me. And then secondly, that there is a better and frankly more economical way for the publisher to pair with that audience even though that content is free. And we're involved in some really interesting pilots that have to do with highly personalized content in that space where the person is known by their wallet.

Speaker 2: 31:25

That's incredibly interesting. Do you have any examples you can share that are not too confidential? I would love to hear something.

Speaker 3: 31:31

Well, in our case, we're involved with some bigger broad pastors that I'm sure you would know and recognize. And one of those is Fox, of course, who's involved in our company. I think that this model applies obviously across the bigger streamers and, of course, Foxx and it's to be, for example, but it can I think and this is why it's important to have a platform that scales and is economic, it can go to everybody, meaning that you can open it up? So it isn't just about the monster streaming services that it can also unlock this kind of live distribution for any app starter creator.

Speaker 2: 32:07

Yeah. I mean, that's kinda where where my head went to. I mean, even something again for, like, my show. Like, I have to work hard to get sponsorship and fund the show. And -- Totally.

Speaker 1: 32:16

--

Speaker 2: 32:16

and I have a good audience and you can tell in detail who they are and get them because I don't want I also am selective. Like, I don't wanna have just anybody that I I don't even run, like, automated or anything like that. I just have one sponsor right now. And this could potentially, like, give them personalized it's personalized revenue for me, essentially. Right? Like, it's personalized ads for them, but it's also personalized to my audience, which is personalized revenue, which is kind of interesting.

Speaker 3: 32:39

Yeah. And I think then advertising goes beyond what it has traditionally been. It can be much more creative much more engaging, and really what you want is the relationship, right, with that particular person or wallet. And I think this this is a whole new unlock for people. Lastly, it does a ton of good to like bring down this situation of the open bad Internet that, you know, has frankly led to a lot of abuse of people's identities. Right?

Speaker 2: 33:08

Yep. Thanks so much for coming on the show. This has been super interesting. Wish you guys the luck with this the launch with the flash. And if you're listening to this, where where can they go and actually try to buy some of these experiences?

Speaker 3: 33:21

So the flash is hosted by Warner Bros. On the Illuvio platform at web three dot w b dot com. So go check

Speaker 2: 33:29

it out. Remember. We'll put that in the show that's web three dot w b dot com. Alright. Thanks so much for being here today.

Speaker 3: 33:35

Bye bye.

Speaker 4: 33:39

You just heard the index podcast with your host, Alex Kahaya. If you enjoyed this episode, please give this show a

Speaker 1: 33:46

five star rating and subscribe on Apple, Spotify, Google, or your favorite streaming platform. New episodes available every other Wednesday. Thanks for tuning in.