Episode #23 - The Last Journey - with Chloe Hardy

Hannah Velten  00:14

Welcome to 'The Finder of Lost Things', exploring your superpowers of trust, healing and transformation with me, Hannah Velten. My brother Christian disappeared in Mali, Africa in 2003. He disappeared without a trace, we lost his story. We didn't have closure, we lost so much. I was fighting and searching to find Christian when actually, I just needed to sit in stillness and attract him in. I was so resistant to doing this, but I had to surrender. It's a process of trusting and finding the last pieces and integrating them. This podcast will uncover the process that Christian and I went on to find the lost things: him and to find the parts of me that were missing.

Hannah Velten  01:08

... Hello, hi, welcome. Come on in as usual, come and sit around in a circle. I've got a really special guest for you to meet today. It's been a long time in the making. And this week has been quite trying for both my guest and myself. This episode is being shown to me as a real completion. I feel really tired {Hannah welling up with tears} and I feel very emotional... sorry... My guest today is Chloe Hardy, who is an artist and a poet. Chloe came to me even before I'd started the podcast, and said that she would like to write a poem about Chris and I, she'd seen us on social media somewhere and she'd been interested in us and wanted to write this poem. And I remember telling Mum and Dad even before the podcast (I think it was the first time I sort of mentioned the podcast to them) and I said about this lady (she was actually Cleo on social media) and she wants to write this poem, and Mum went, "Oh, Wow, that's amazing. That would be great. You know, that'd be really good to have Christian remembered in a poem" and, like, Chloe has been our number one fan all through the podcast: she's commented on every episode and she's really got into it and been asking me lots of questions as well about pinpointing events and what Christian was like, and, really sort of getting into the story... I'm just going to introduce her to you now, because, yeah, Chloe needs to tell the story about this, about how she was involved with Christian. So you're not actually going to see Chloe if you're watching the film, because she had very little sleep last night and is quite nervous about being on the screen as well. So you're just going to hear her lovely voice and she's actually going to read THE poem today for us. And so I just want to welcome Chloe. Hi, Chloe, thank you so much for joining us. I know it's been a week!

Chloe Hardy  03:55

It's a pleasure. I've had quite a challenging week. And to say I didn't get much sleep last night is a bit of an understatement. But I'm very enthusiastic to read my poem, regardless of my personal situation. First of all, shall I talk a little bit about how I knew Christian from my younger years? Um, basically, he was my neighbour's cousin. And I lived in a very beautiful area of Sussex and I was very privileged to have the Veltens [our cousins] as my neighbours and I spent probably more time with the Veltens in the summer than I did with my own family. And I met Christian quite a few times over afternoon tea, and he made a real impression as a really, really amazing person with a really beautiful vibration to him. And that always stuck in my memory. And I moved further down from where I was living, so I kind of slowly lost contact with the family. And then I went to university and I moved up to Scotland after I went to university. And, then you know, I didn't really think so much about my time as your neighbour, until my mother sent me an article maybe quite a few years ago about Christian going missing. And it really disturbed me at the time. And I think I just kind of shut it out of my mind, I don't even think I kept the article. And I kind of fell out with my mum, so I didn't really even follow it up with her. And after maybe about 10 years of reading that article, and I didn't know any of your story - I wasn't following it. I wasn't even aware of it. And then the last winter solstice [2020], I had a dream about Christian and he visited me. And I actually think I was even in the house that you used to live in. And I went there. And I think I saw him there. And he basically said, I needed to get in contact with you. And I thought this is really strange, because I haven't, you know, I haven't heard about whatever happened to him. So I decided that winter solstice to actually try and chase up what did happen to him. And the thing that I read was your "Letter of a Lifetime" [see show notes]. And that was really the main point of contact I had that was clarifying what really happened. And I read that, and I was so unbelievably moved by it, that I felt that a poem had to be written and I just kind of took it from there, and I got in contact with you. But I didn't tell you my personal situation of living next to your family until I think it was 1st May, which was also the time that Christian connected with you in Spirit [in 2018 we learnt he was acutally dead], wasn't it? Which is kind of a coincidence... I left it a long time, because I was a little uncertain about doing it and I felt a bit uncomfortable about how your family would feel about me. I was concerned they'd see me as kind of interfering and what have you. But in fact, it all worked out quite well that I've got in contact with you. And I feel that I probably couldn't have continued much longer without telling you about my personal situation, because I was basically very much writing the poem from a situation of having known Christian and I think it would have been hard for me to have not mentioned that. So I really deeply connected with your story; maybe a little bit too much, actually. I was quite disturbed basically by the concept of Chris kind of floating through Africa for so many years, not even aware that he was dead. And that's basically what the essence of what my poem is about. I mean, I feel that now, from what you're saying, Chris has very much moved on from that. His spirit isn't in Africa anymore. But this poem is specifically about him as a kind of lost soul in Africa, because I felt that was just something that was a very interesting subject, poetically, but I don't feel he's there anymore. But I feel that maybe I'm writing not just about him, I'm writing about other lost souls in Africa. And I feel maybe some of them are still there. So I did do some research on the poem, I read a book by Mungo Park, and also a book about Mungo Park. And I also referred to a book - Joseph Conrad's 'Heart of Darkness' - in my poem, because that's kind of about going into the centre of Africa and kind of discovering, like, a darkness there. So I started the poem with a quote from 'Heart of Darkness', because I thought that was kind of quite relevant. So shall I just go ahead and read it? 

Hannah Velten  09:44

Yeah, perfect time. And then we can sort of talk a little bit about the other themes. So yeah, I'd love to hear it. And that's why I'm feeling emotional; hearing you read it out is going to be emotional. So, yeah, the producer better cut the feed on me because I'll probably be in tears as well {both laugh}. Please carry on.

Chloe Hardy  10:07

I felt it very much kind of came through at a subliminal level. I mean I could have even had Chris helping me with some of it you know... It's not something I sat down and consciously wrote. I let it flow from a place that I don't know where it come from. But anyway, I'll start reading it. It's called 'The Last Journey: An African Adventure" 

Chloe Hardy  10:29

'and the tranquil waterway leading to the uttermost ends of the earth flowed sombre under an overcast sky - seemed to lead into the heart of an immense darkness' (from 'Heart of Darkness' by Joseph Conrad. 

Chloe Hardy  10:43

"The explorer awoke at the edge of dawn / As the globe stretched out before him; His path carved into the abyss / With the grace and precision of a razor-blade. / A map... a river... a continent, / Merged into one infinite swirling dream / That flows like blood through the veins; / A vision as sharp as an arrowhead. / Africa - A land of scorched desires, / Africa - A land of dangerous secrets, / Africa - A land of ancient truths, / Africa - The gate to the spirit world. / Follow the ancient snake. / It flows its watery tail across the land / And descends into the kingdom of Hades far below. / Follow the snake... into the heart of darkness. / The river meanders seductively and silently / Towards its undefinable source, / A mysterious place unknown to man / Yet traversed oft by the ancient ones. / The spirits of the dead roam the land freely, / Beyond borders they shapeshift / Across the sacred terrains, / Invisible beings yet seen in fleeting glances./ They become the sacred watchers of the dawn, / At the edge of time and space, / They dwell alongside the ancestors; / The keepers of eternal truths. / The path is fast, / The path is slow, / The way is narrow, / On the journey we go. / The path is forwards, / The path is back, / The way is wide, / Follow the track.  / The lion roars, / The leopard growls, / The zebra runs, / The hyena howls.  / Onwards, outwards, / ‘Gainst setting sun, / The red earth bleeds, / Our journey must be done. / The spirits dwell in the shadowlands, / Where the dead travel fast, / For they have no mortal need / Of map or compass to guide them. / Dwelling in the liminal zones / Beyond time and space, / They inhabit the realms in-between, / Shapeshifters of the sandy dunes. / Lost on desert storms they dance, / Like grains of sand, / They roam the land, / For love to set them free... And I have an afternote to Chris, which says "In trying to solve an enigma, you became one. You went in search of answers to riddles, but instead the Great Mystery found you in the land of Africa; your passage to eternity." [copyrighted to Chloe Hardy, 2021]

Hannah Velten  13:12

Thank you, Chloe.

Chloe Hardy  13:14

I just wanted to say that one of the key things about this poem is you mentioned that Chris was seen in various places around Africa, where he shouldn't have been, you know... quite away from where he should have been. And I was thinking to myself, and this is almost just an imaginative idea: were they seeing his ghost?... this idea of him kind of as a spirit, shifting across Africa, and these reports that were given of him... you know, 'Invisible beings yet seen in fleeting glances.' And that's one thing that really kind of came to my mind when I was reading about that, so I just thought you might be interested to know that about it.

Hannah Velten  14:19

Yeah, absolutely. I think what Chloe is referencing... So we kind of went over all the way to Kenya, looking for Chris on the social media search, but actually, we had sort of people saying they'd seen him but there was nothing concrete but actually... Oh, this is so interesting. This is a completion part as well. Chloe, thank you for bringing this up. So, there was a lady who got in touch with me and she had said she'd been following the social media search... I've just remembered this. And she said to me - much like yourself, Chloe - she hung around in the background for ages and she was like, I don't know whether to say anything. I don't know whether to say anthing. And eventually she came forward and she said, do you know what I really feel I've seen Chris... Have you got the details there? You probably have on your research? 

Hannah Velten  15:19

She basically came very gingerly forwards to me and said, Look, I know you're looking in Kenya, but I really feel I've seen your brother in Ghana, which is actually below Mali, which is totally plausible at the time for us. And I said, "Oh, what did you sort of see? How do you know?" And she said, "Well, I was with my husband, who was a footballer from Scotland... they lived, like 20 minutes away from where Mongo Park was born. And they were in Ghana because he was playing for The Ghanian team [actually he was coaching]. So they were sitting at traffic lights, and she said to me, he was like a vision of a tramp who looked very much like Christian (she'd seen pictures of Chris) and she said it was just like Christian, but like he'd just come out of hospital. He was absolutely bone thin, with bruising on him and he was very confused about where... oh, my God, I've got chills... Urgh? He was, oh, [Hannah in tears] he was so confused. Oh, god, it's gonna make me cry. He was so confused about where he was. He knew he was, um, I kind of need to get the details, right. He thought he was from France. And he couldn't quite work out how to get home. He was wanting money. He was collecting money from the people at the traffic lights wanting money to get on a plane to go home. And she said to him, 'Where do you live?' And he said, 'I think I live France, but I'm not sure.' [Hannah in tears] I'm sorry. When she said, 'What's your name? Who are you?' And he said, 'I'm Christian.' Um, and she thought he meant I'm a Christian, as in religion. Yeah. But he said to her, 'I'm Christian.' She was only with him for about 30 seconds or so, but she gave him some money, and then the traffic lights changed and everyone's beeping, so she went off. And she actually went back to the area and tried to find him and never saw him again. And she was so upset because, like, she was so sure it was Christian. And she said he had a broken nose like Chris has (in photos) and she said he spoke in like a really posh English accent... Oh, Chloe, thank you [Hannah composes herself]. Thank you. Okay, I'm gonna have to put more details in the shownotes about that, because I did write about it. Um, but yeah, that was Chris, like wandering around in Africa. And this girl had seen it... there are so many different ghosts in Africa. I mean, obviously, there was Mungo Park, who lost his life... in your research, do you know kind of what happened to him in the end?

Chloe Hardy  18:23

No, I haven't. No.

Chloe Hardy  18:25

Er... I've got the book by me, but my attention to detail is not at its greatest right now. I did study it and I kind of underlined some significant points...

Hannah Velten  19:14

I think it was kind of like, left in the air. There was all sorts of ideas about what had happened to him and that he was on the river and he was trying to make contact with some locals and they thought he was, you know, threatening them. And they killed him. And he was in the rapids... So he's kind of left this... this is why Christian followed him because he is this sort of enigma, isn't he - this sort of African adventure...

Chloe Hardy  19:38

This thing here that actually I've noted next to it, "Like with Chris", so I'm gonna read this out to you. 

Hannah Velten  19:44

Yeah, yeah, please.

Chloe Hardy  19:45

It says, "Some of the stories must be discounted as wild rumours or even gross inventions, and they were suspiciously numerous claims to have been eyewitnesses. The rumours were followed by more credible accounts, but later reports are less reliable (this is about what what happened to him). The result cannot be clear and definite, it's more like an early cinematographic film, in a mutilated state, with gaps, in places fuzzy and sometimes open to alternative interpretations." That's basically about what happened to him, and people seeing him. So, you know, it sounds very similar to Chris.

Hannah Velten  20:24

Yeah... And this is why it was so important for me to find the story, because there were so many gaps... it was so frustrating that I didn't know what had happened to him... so it happened to Mungo and then Mungo's son went out to try and find out what had happened to him. And he also died. And my big thing was that I did not want my children to have to go out to Africa to go and find out what had happened to their uncle... it was so down to me, in the end, to find out what had happened to him. And I know you talked to your dad about coming on the podcast, and he said, you know, has there ever been any proof about what Hannah is saying about what happened to Chris? And like, there isn't, because I can't prove it. You know, one day, I hope to have the photographs of him in my hands, that will have been retrieved from Africa. We've talked about that all the time. But it's, like, it doesn't matter to me if anybody believes me or not. [Hannah laughs], because it's how we've healed and transformed... and I must say, because, Chris, do you mind telling the story about your recent sort of Chris coming back into your life? Because I know he's still around... 

Chloe Hardy  21:52

Oh, no. I don't want to discuss the recent thing. No, no, because that's too delicate for me. I'm happy to talk about that issue, but not the exact example if you don't mind.

Hannah Velten  22:10

Okay. Okay. That's fine. Was there anything else you wanted to talk to about the poem? 

Chloe Hardy  22:15

Um, no, but there was something I wanted to say just then and then it suddenly went... oh, about proof. Just because you can't prove something doesn't mean it isn't true... this is why me and my dad have quite a few arguments. The scientific point of view is basically things only exist if you can prove them. But I think, you know, humans probably only perceive about 20% of what really exists. I mean, like all the stuff with dark matter: even science itself is - quantum physics - proving that actually we really don't know anything, and that the Universe is this kind of like, massive, like, unknown stuff that we don't even have the skills to understand. So I think this idea of just because you can't prove something is extremely arrogant, because it suggests that humans do have the ability to fully prove things, where we don't. There's a lot of things that are unknown, that we can't prove, because it's beyond our capacity to be able to prove even. You know, we can't proof life after death, because it's something that is beyond... you can't prove it.

Hannah Velten  23:30

Yeah, we've got sort of people coming back after near death experiences with their stories. 

Chloe Hardy  23:34

Yeah, I mean, I suppose that's kind of proof. But um, you know, you can't quantify something like that really? 

Hannah Velten  23:42

Hmm. But just something we were talking about, actually, before. We had a pet loss specialist on called Karen Anderson, who came on a few episodes ago. And we were talking about - it was something that we didn't have time to fit into the episode, but I think it'll fit in here perfectly, actually - because all along Chris and I thought he was still alive. Yeah. And obviously he was dead.... but Karen was telling me about an experience she had as a psychic who speaks with animals. And she had some parents actually who came to her and said, Look, our son called Matt has lost his Labrador [black] called Mollie, and they've been out hiking in the Colorado Mountains and they got separated and like they couldn't find the dog anywhere. And they called Karen and said look, "Do you think you can contact in with with Mollie's soul and see if you can work out where she is in the wilderness?" So Karen thought, well, I'll give it a go. Anyway, Mollie kind of came bounding up to her when she connected with her and Mollie was okay. She was fine. And she was saying... like, she was upset because she was separated from Matt. ... but Karen was sure she was alive. And then Karen said to her, 'Can you describe where you are?" And Mollie showed her an area where the tree line ends and the exposed rock sort of begins. And she could see a river; she was above the raging sort of river. So Karen sort of passed on this information. And then after a couple of days, Mollie was found washed up on the river shore and she was dead. And the thing with Karen, and with us, was Molly was absolutely convinced that she was still alive. And she had obviously got separated and jumped into the river to follow Matt's scent across the river. And she was still Earthbound and hadn't realised. I told Karen about our experience and she went, Oh, thank goodness, because she'd never heard of it in another. Like it was a confirmation, I guess. So I think the more we talk about this happening, the more, you know, it's a possibility. And the thing is... and I love that last line you said about "For love to set them free", because that is all Chris and I have done. It's like, follow that thread of love, and set him free from where he was.

Chloe Hardy  26:52

But I mean, one thing that's really interesting - and I'm actually watching Twin Peaks at the moment, I'm getting to the end of it and it's very interesting, because there's the agent Dale Cooper says that there's two gates: there's the love, that opens the door to the White Lodge and fear that opens the door to the Black Lodge. And I'm very interested in that concept, because, basically, that is pretty much how it is, is that you've got love on one end, and you've got fear on another end. And I think if you get caught up in fear, you end up kind of entering that Black Lodge... you know, we were talking about the psychic phone lines. I think if you get slightly addicted and obsessed with them, you're really just kind of playing with your fears, really, aren't you... I think a lot of these psychic phone lines prey on people's fears. And they make money on people's fears.

Hannah Velten  28:02

Yeah... I've talked openly before about the search for Chris and how it affected me. It was like an obsession and I completely gave my power away. You know, if I'd known what I could do [Hannah laughs], and did do, I would have never given my power away to anybody. But you learn as you go along, don't you, and the fact that we have this love that is connected to people who we've met and that continues, you know, that stays, it doesn't disappear. It just carries on and, you know, to use that love and that unconditional... I mean, Chris and I had to work out, you know, our differences. You know, it wasn't an easy healing journey at all. But once you've got the sort of gunk - I mean, I've talked about this lots of times - but once I'd kind of got the gunk out of the way of our relationship... 

Chloe Hardy  28:59

That fear, basically. The fear. 

Hannah Velten  29:01

Yeah, the fear and the mistrust. And it's like trusting yourself. When you can trust yourself, you trust the other person and you trust what's happening... yeah, giving your power away to people who don't even know you... that's the whole story, isn't it?... I know what we need to talk about - Mungo's sister. 

Chloe Hardy  29:33

Oh, right. Yeah. 

Hannah Velten  29:35

Do you want to tell the story? Because that was in your research too...

Chloe Hardy  29:38

I'll let you tell that one.

Hannah Velten  29:45

Okay... over our journey, we had quite a few relatives of Mungo Park [or those who died on the expedition] who got in touch with us and sort of said, you know, that they were thinking of us. Obviously Mungo's trip and the exploration that he did, and sort of the romance around it, had very much followed down in the family and one of the relatives sort of said to me, I wished I'd done the same trip because, you know, I'd always wanted to when I was younger, because I was some, you know, great, great, great relative. But he shared with me a story about Mungo's sister, and I can't remember her name - it was 'Mrs' something. I think her husband worked with Mongo. Anyway, they'd not heard from Mungo for a very long time and thought he was, you know, not coming home, or was certainly lost. And she actually, in her dream, or in a vision, she actually heard, like, a carriage pull up outside the house, and in her heart, she was like, 'Oh, my God, that's Mungo home', you know, 'he's coming home'. And she actually saw him, like, come into the room. I think she was probably in that half state of - the liminal state - and she said, 'Oh, my goodness, you're home. You're come home.' He was like, in his normal explorer sort of costume. And then looking back at it, she suddenly realised, ah, he's dead. This is him coming to... you know, it was her realisation that her brother had died. And I can't remember... I mean, I haven't really looked back in my diaries, ... but in that sort of rough time when I believe Christian died, I don't think I had a similar thing. Or if I did, I blocked it out. And yeah, like, I don't want to hear that... so Mungo Park's sister had that pre-death recognition. 

Chloe Hardy  32:08

Actually, just talking about the experiences I had of losing people, I actually had two experiences like that with the people who died in my life. Is it called pre-cognition?

Hannah Velten  32:31

Yes, I think so. Precognition. 

Chloe Hardy  32:33

I had that with them - if you want me to tell you what exactly went on? 

Hannah Velten  32:38

Yes, please do. I think last week, Sophia kind of had a recognition of her brother dying as well. So yeah, please do please.

Chloe Hardy  32:48

Yeah, it wasn't exactly a recognition but it was something kind of related to that. I had three very close friends - two of them were ex-boyfriends and one of them was a best friend - and I had them die within a space of about three four years. So I had four years of like very, very intensified grief that every year just seem to be getting worse and worse and worse. And with all of the experiences I had very kind of strange things happen, strange dreams. The first one was with my friend Steve... I was flying back from London and I was flying over Edinburgh. He was in Edinburgh at the time (we hadn't spoken for quite a few months). I'm aware now that at pretty much the exact time that the flight was going over Edinburgh was also the exact time that he died, because I found that out eventually. But as the plane was flying over Edinburgh, I got the most unbelievable headache, but it wasn't a headache. It was like my brain was actually going to explode; it was like a migraine that was so intense, that I couldn't even open my eyes and it lasted for about five minutes. It was like someone kind of slowly crushing my head. And I thought this is very strange. I've never had anything like this before. And I had to like literally put my head in between my legs and I couldn't move. I was paralysed and I've never had it in my life. And I've since found out that I experienced that pretty much the same time as Steve died - I thought that was quite strange. But what was really strange is that when I did find out he died, I had a dream about him. And basically, I was on the phone, and I picked up the phone and Steve was at the other end of the phone and he basically told me that he loved me. And then he put the phone down. And when I woke up, I was in a state of like extreme bliss. It didn't feel like a dream, it felt like something that was more than a dream. And I later spoke to a psychic about it (not a phone psychic, someone at a psychic fair) and she said to me that that had been Steve... that was like his last message to me, and that it was using the phone, because we used phones quite a lot. And that was my experience with Steve. And my experience with my other friend dying was really, really strange because I was at a festival in Spain and, again, I didn't realise that my ex-boyfriend died the day that this event happened. But first of all, he had dreadlocks a little bit like me, and I'd actually tied one of his dreadlocks onto one of mine and it had been there for many, many, many years. And it fell off at the festival and I thought that's strange - his dreadlock's fallen off - and I just kind of kept it in my pocket for the night. And then I was sitting talking with some friends and one of my really good friends... I kind of suddenly went into like a kind of trance-like state, and everything around me went into a daze (kind of very fuzzy) and my best friend's face actually transformed for about five seconds into the face of the man that died. And I thought, well, that's really, really strange that that's happened, because the dreadlock also fell out as well. And when I got back from Spain, I found out that the night all of that went on was the night that he died, which was really strange. I didn't find that out till about two months later. And I thought that that was just very, very kind of just very strange. I mean, you can't really explain anything; it was very obscure and very strange, but it was just a coincidence, a paranormal coincidence. I think Carl Jung writes about paranormal coincidences that those things happened, you know, at the exact times that those people died. And the last strange story that I have is my friend, James, who died. And funnily enough, he died on the exact date that the other man died, which was 23rd of August, which was kind of disturbing. And I basically got a dream about him - very similar to the dream that I had about Steve, where Steve was on the telephone - and he came to me in the dream, and he told me how he died. And the family were trying to hide how he really died, because it was a bit of a taboo subject. And they were posting all over Facebook, like a different thing of how he died... I met James in this dream, it was very, very clearly him (it wasn't a dream, it was like more like a vision) and I got in contact with his girlfriend the next day and I said, "This is a lie what you're saying on Facebook, isn't it? He didn't die like that at all." And she said to me, "Well, how did you know you're not supposed to know that?" And I told her about the dream I had. And she said, "Well, don't tell anyone, will you for goodness sake." So those are my just slightly strange kind of experiences of my friends' deaths. 

Hannah Velten  38:35

Did these things that happened to you - did they make you feel grief was easier having these experiences?

Chloe Hardy  38:41

Er. Well, certainly the dreams - like Steve visiting me in the dream and telling me he loved me - that was one of the most amazing experiences I've ever had, because I just woke up feeling this real sense of love and bliss around me. That was a very positive experience. James, that was also a... Yeah, I think they were all a good experience, actually. The one where I saw the image of the man who died in my friend's face was a bit spooky. And it was also spooky because I'd written a letter to his sister and apparently he read the letter, and he died half an hour after he'd read my letter. So we obviously had quite a connection, when he died. You know, actually funny enough, he was friends with Steve and I actually told this man that Steve was in Spirit, and I told him that in the letter, and he died half an hour after he read that letter... so I feel that because he knew his friend was in Spirit, he was able to go himself. So I felt the reason I wrote this in the letter was to kind of like set him free and say, well, it's okay; Steve's gone, you can go and jam and play guitar with Steve. [Chloe laughs] So I felt I did a real service to him, in that sense, just letting him know that there's someone there for you on the other side. So, all the three deaths I thought were kind of really linked; I mean, partly because two of them actually knew each other, and the other two, you know, they were born on the same birthday, and they both died on the same day (date wise), and they didn't know each other. It's just really bizarre.

Hannah Velten  40:15

It's interesting, isn't it? Because I mean, I'm sure there's people listening to this (and I would have listened to this as well, probably a few years ago) and just thought, well, this is just scary... this is just weird. I don't want anything like this happening to me. And that was a real fear for me - around getting involved with Spirit - because it's an unknown, isn't it? But I think once you know, that the love (like you keep saying)... the fear over the love. Once the love breaks through, love can do anything, can't it.

Chloe Hardy  41:00

I had no fear over any of the experiences, at all. But I had the experiences very much thrown upon me, I didn't have any choice in the matter. It's not like I went looking for it. I had to deal with it, whether I liked it or not. But I felt all three experiences came from a place of love, not from fear. And all three men... I mean, two of them were ex boyfriends and unfortunately I didn't leave on good terms with either of them, but the experience that I had with them after they died means that I managed to release all the, you know, resentment and negativity that I'd had to them in life. And there was just like total liberation and kind of like a weight being lifted off my shoulders after I had that experience. Because sometimes you can be bitter with ex boyfriends for quite a few years [Chloe laughs], I didn't have any of that. I just feel just pure, unconditional love to these people now. And that was very liberating.

Hannah Velten  42:02

Yeah... I've just written down a few notes, as you were talking. The way that Chris and I were shown... to communicate with each other (the metaphor that we were given from our guide) was a phone line. You literally have a connection from your hearts... and you just have to literally get a clear telephone line and you can hear each and feel each other.

Chloe Hardy  42:33

I actually did a bit of research on the telephone metaphor after I had that experience. And I actually read myself, that it's actually quite a common thing. There's many, many stories of people that have died and, after they've died, a relative has picked up the phone, and they've been on the other end of that phone and it's more common than people would like to admit. And the phone is like a symbol of communication with the Spirit world, as well as the material world.

Hannah Velten  43:08

Yeah, absolutely. And the other thing you mentioned was about the dreadlock that you shared.

Chloe Hardy  43:18

Yeah, well, yeah, it's his dreadlocks. I tied it onto my hair. And I always knew it was his because his was slightly darker than mine. And yeah, it just kind of fell off. And it was amazing that I even saw it, because it was dark when it fell off. I shouldn't have seen it. As soon as it fell off, I was like, ah, something's happened here.

Hannah Velten  43:34

I'm only saying that because the last time I saw Chris actually, so 2003 February, I gave him a present... I thought, What am I going to give him to go off travelling, you know? Something small. But I went to a bookshop and I found one of those really small survival guides, like Explorer's Survival Guide, like pocket handbook. It was tiny. I felt that he needed this book {Hannah laughs]. And I said to him, Look, I don't know if you can fit it in your backpack - because he only took like a rucksack. 

Chloe Hardy  44:19

That's unbelievable. No even a phone. [both laugh]

Hannah Velten  44:24

Didn't have a GPS, none of that. Just had a stills camera and a film camera. 

Chloe Hardy  44:30

It's really amazing. 

Hannah Velten  44:31

I've never found the book that I gave him amongst his belonging. So I think he took the book that I gave him, so he had something from me that he took with him to Africa, and that's still in Africa. And I don't know where that is. But because we had that object between us - connecting - when I did the trance medium sessions with Chris [which are all on on my YouTube channel, 'The Finder of Lost Things'] I think that, in part, was why we had such a good connection while he was in Africa, because I could see everything that was going on with him. I mean, I could be him and see exactly what was going on. And even before telling the story, I was able to reach him in dreams, like, obviously lucid dreaming. And just before he was being attacked, actually, in Kita - K-I-T-A, in Mali (that's important that I put this in), he was aware of me being there with him - like soul Hannah had gone with him. And I was telling him, you know, like, don't be scared, you're a boxer, you know, you'll be fine. Just take wherever they're gonna give you and you will be fine. And I was like giving him a pep talk. And all of this came through in the trance mediumship. So I couldn't be aware of doing that, but my soul was helping him at the time.

Chloe Hardy  46:11

I think that's possibly the situation I had with seeing Robert's face in my friend's - I actually think that - because he pretty much died that night, it might have even been the moment he died - I think his spirit may have actually kind of come over to Spain and for that flash second... I felt when I saw him, I felt he was saying goodbye. And it was a very flash thing - very, very quickly - and then it just went back to my normal friend's face. It was a very, very good friend of mine, so I mean, they picked that person for a reason. But it was like a flash to say goodbye. And then it was gone. I think he kind of like travelled in spirit, all the way over to Spain, to do that.

Hannah Velten  46:58

The thing is, once they're out of their physical body, you're free. And actually next week's show (we haven't quite finished yet, but I might as well just say it) next week show we're actually going to be talking to an end-of-life - I would call her a death doula - but it comes out as an end-of-life therapist and she's been working in cancer care for 18 years. And she's gonna tell us all about what she's experienced of the moment of death. 

Chloe Hardy  47:30

So this is quite a good kind of run up, lead up towards that then, isn't it? Because what I'm saying is all kind of like about life after death. This goes on well with the next episode.

Hannah Velten  47:43

Yeah. Which will be our penultimate one. Which I can't believe.

Chloe Hardy  47:46

Which is like the last one. Because you can't go any further after that, because you've reached the end [Chloe laughs]

Hannah Velten  47:53

Yeah, we've reached the end then! And then the last actual show is going to be like a roundup of everything that's been going on in the last six months. This episode here is the last like little bow {wrapping up a gift] for Chris and I - like our story. So thank you. It's funny that you've kind of shadowed this whole podcast. Do you feel you've taken on anything from us, like from Chris and I? Has it impacted you?

Chloe Hardy  48:30

Well, yes, I do feel that I have. I feel that I've taken on your desire to find out the truth of a situation, in my own personal circumstances. And I'm not going to go into it, but you know what it is because we spoke about it earlier. I have been locked in a kind of web of duplicity and confusion and uncertainty and it wasn't until the recent situation where I said Chris and Steve were involved (in a situation where I actually felt I'd got to the truth) and I felt I'd got to the truth through Spirit, rather than through kind of chasing psychics that can or cannot be wrong... what my conclusion was, is basically that the dead never lie. But psychics can lie. And that's a fact. But the dead... you can always trust the dead, don't always trust psychics. But that's the thing - they're not psychics. There's a lot of people out there who claim they are psychic, and they're not; they're just trying to earn money. There are obviously many, many genuine psychics. But I think the key is to trust spirits and that's what kind of my poem is about. You can trust spirits, but be very careful who you trust with regards to people pointing you in certain directions because sometimes they're just sent to like give you false signposts.

Hannah Velten  50:01

Yeah, but it's funny, isn't it? Because without those false... I've come to the conclusion as well, that without those false signposts, and that false hope, I would have never, ever, ever have done this journey. There was no way on earth I would have, like, got so obsessed with finding Chris, if somebody hadn't been telling me, you know, he's alive, you're gonna get hold of him in the end. Like, I wouldn't have done any of this. And then Chris, not being told that he was actually dead or not realising, that kept the whole thing going... our whole journey has been a spiritual growth and I do believe (I wrote a post today, actually on Facebook), I do believe that Chris and I had a pre-determined sacred contract before we came into this life that we were going to do this. Literally everything that has happened caused me to completely break-up and realise that the only thing that I had was myself. And I had to get myself better and balanced and find my power, inner power, self-love and then use my abilities, which - we're all psychic, we're all intuitive: it's how much you want to open up to it and allow it in - but without crashing, I would have never done any of this. And now we're able ... and you as well, Chloe... the experiences we've had, even by talking about this and letting this out, (because people don't talk about this)... other people will go, oh, do you know what, yes. something strange happened to me and I didn't believe it. I thought it was just coincidence.

Hannah Velten  51:47

The more we talk about it, the more it becomes normalised... you know, we're all going to be spirits. We all are spirits. [both laughing] We don't want to get to the end and be trying to talk to our loved ones and they're going Oh, no, I don't want to listen, I don't want to... Like, I'm trying to tell you the story here! I'm trying to give you love. I'm trying to...  and you're like, No, I don't want it - it's too scary. But really it's opening up love, isn't it. [both laughing]

Chloe Hardy  51:50

Yeah. There's no such thing as a coincidence, is there. It's synchronicities. 

Chloe Hardy  51:57

It's fear blocking it out, isn't it? I think the reason why my dad gets so freaked out by all this is because he's just terrified of it.

Hannah Velten  52:28

Well, I know lots of people like that [both laughing]. And I was one, you know, I've said openly before, the first time I met somebody who is even slightly 'wo-wo' (if we want to call it that) [Chloe laughs] I was like, terrified. I didn't even want to go anywhere near her house. But I did... you know, I was sent these people. And people listening now will be going... they'll be listening to us and go, Oh, okay. Yeah, maybe it's not quite so scary. And, you know, there is love, there's so much love. And like you said, the last bit of your poem about...

Chloe Hardy  53:06

Well, actually, I've got a confession to make. 

Hannah Velten  53:10

[Hannah shrieks] Another one?!

Chloe Hardy  53:10

On the last three lines - I wasn't going to say but since I've spoken about him, I will - the last lines, 'Like grains of sand, / They roam the land, / For love to set them free', isn't actually my words. They're actually Robert's words - who died, I saw him in Spain. He actually wrote a poem to me and I ripped the poem up, when we broke up... many years later, I tried to remember the poem in my head because it was really, really beautiful. But the only lines that I remembered was the last three lines and they've stuck in my mind for like years and years and years. And when I was writing that poem - and it was after you showed me the picture of Chris in the [Namibian] desert - those last three lines actually came up and I had to put them on. So they're not actually mine. They're actually his. I shouldn't really be saying that. But I do have to commend someone - someone in Spirit has written those last three lines. 

Hannah Velten  54:15

Ah, well, thank you, Robert. And thank you to Chloe. Courageous, Chloe. Thank you so much for joining us and telling us your stories and for that beautiful poem and for like keeping me in the dark really, about who you were, for so long. 

Chloe Hardy  54:37

Sorry about that... 

Hannah Velten  54:39

That's the whole point, because it would have completely spoiled it if I'd dug to find out who you were, or ... If you're given stuff, it happens for a reason, at the right time, and you are given as much as you need to know [Hannah laughs]

Chloe Hardy  54:57

I didn't want to overload it on you, because I was actually worried that it would upset you. So I wanted to wait my time and I felt that Beltane was perfect, because that's when Chris had reconnected with you, so I thought I'm gonna wait until then and then that's like the right moment.

Hannah Velten  55:10

It was funny.... when you said, Oh, you'd known Chris before, I was like, (I'm just being honest here) I thought, Oh, no. What is it? What is it? You know, thinking all these things - Oh, god, what can he have done? [Chloe laughs] And then it turns out you... I should add... when you and Chris met you were about 10. 

Chloe Hardy  55:29

Actually, I was neighbours with them between the ages of about 10 to 16, something like that... and, yes, you were the only member of the family that I didn't meet, but I think my dad's met you. I think my dad went over to your house quite a few times and did work for your Dad. I think he's met you. But you were the only person I never met [both laugh] which is just very strange.

Hannah Velten  56:05

You see, that's the thread, isn't it? You have to go back. We're gonna be talking about this a lot in the last episode, but you have to go back so far to see the thread where it begins. And for us, for this story (like we've got 30 seconds), but for this story, we are literally at the conclusion of this story, Chloe, and we had to reach back to, like, when we were eight years old to understand the significance of everything and to see how this web has been weaved. 

Chloe Hardy  56:33

Yeah. It's crazy. 

Hannah Velten  56:34

But I am so, so glad you came on, Chloe. Thank you so much. 

Chloe Hardy  56:38

Thank you for inviting me. It's an absolute pleasure.

Hannah Velten  56:41

You've been a joy. And I hope everyone enjoyed that. And it opened their eyes a little bit. So yes, next week we have Louise who - I would call her a death doula (I know she's been called that before), but anyway I look forward to next week. And I have to have a sigh of relief,  because this was making me nervous this show, but I am so glad it's out in the open. So thank you so much. And I'll see you next week. Bye. 

Hannah Velten  57:10

Thank you for listening to 'The Finder of Lost Things'. I think we've been triggered so long and so hard by COVID and it's going to carry on. People are getting used to stillness and they're getting used to more solitude that how do you use that time for the highest good? This process that we're going to explore will bring back the joy and purpose to life. That wholeness, you know, that sort of harmony and flow and togetherness. People are really ready to find their lost parts now. You can find me at hannahvelten.online