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Rachel Denning (00:10.67)
Delman, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your host Greg and Rachel Denning. Just quick update, we just got back. I took my boys and went for a week long trip to Iceland and it was freezing cold and windy and epic. It is pretty much winter time.

It's pretty much always winter in Iceland. Always winter and never Christmas. It's such a special place. Really, really awesome. And be able to spend that last week with my boys, and then they both moved out. So they launched. Which is gratifying and sad. And sad. We missed them so much. In fact, we ought to do an episode just about kids launching.

Make a note of that, babe. Let's do a full episode just about kids' loss. Because I've been thinking about it a ton. There's so much to process when a child is about to move out and then does move out. And when you're helping your kids transition between being a child and then that transition into adult life and responsibility. And it is a transition. It's not like just one moment. Like the day before, they're not ready for life. And the day after, like, yep, they're ready. Right.

It doesn't have, it's not like, okay, you moved out. Now you're totally set and ready for life. You're on it. And there's some of that, but it's this transition. And I've been thinking so much about this last few weeks and spending that time with them. And we had just tons and tons of great conversations. We listened to some really powerful books that about being men and that helped facilitate lots of conversations. But then we just talked and talked and they asked questions and we just really processing this whole, this whole dynamic of.

stepping out and becoming men and living lives as men and those principles. So anyway, we'll get into that. Yeah, you're right. We should, because I was also thinking last night when we dropped our son off at the bus station in Faro so he could take the bus to Lisbon. He was saying some great things about just, you know, like the way to become an adult is to just take on more responsibility. You just have to say yes to more, more responsibility rather than shirking it or.

Rachel Denning (02:26.573)
Avoiding it. Avoiding it because that's how you remain essentially a child. Yep. By avoiding responsibility. It's childishness. Yeah. And there are fully grown adult, well, adult people that the age should say they're adults because they're in their 20s, 30s, 40s or 50s and they're still shirking responsibility. Yeah. And acting like children. So anyways, we'll get into that. So that's gonna be a good one. Today, we got some fantastic questions about.

What is it about economics? It's about earning money and abundance. Yeah, it's about abundance. It's about helping your children become wealthy and develop an abundance mindset also connected to it. It's kind of a two -part question is like jobs and working and you know, how do you help them learn how to work? And especially if you love to live life like we do and you are traveling a lot and you're gone a lot, how do your kids have a job or hold down a job or?

or find work or do work when you're constantly going places and seeing things, which is awesome and should be done. But so we're going to talk about all of those topics today. And hopefully it will also connect for you listener about your abundant or scarcity mindset. Abundance mindset or lack of abundance mindset. And even the way you earn money.

So many, so many people, the vast majority of people, I would say, I know that's a bold statement, the vast majority of people are kind of stuck in a scarcity mindset. And just mostly because they've never been taught. And I wasn't taught this way either. I grew up in it and I'll tell that story in a minute. But we have to...

alter our mindsets and then alter our.

Rachel Denning (04:27.853)
Actions and behaviors with our ability and skills, which years ago we can't, I misspoke and I said the word skilleties. And so it's abilities and skills. And you have to magnify and augment and expand your skilleties so that you're more valuable in the workplace. So as we talk through this, for helping your kids do it, I want you to do the same for you. Cause every one of us could continue to increase our own income through.

income earning things and through investments. Yeah, and we were specifically asked about our thoughts on Dave Ramsey and his total money makeover and so we are going to talk about that which you will be fascinated to hear our opinion about that. So yeah, lots of good stuff that we're going to cover today. So hit the questions. We're going to start. There's two.

Extensive questions here. It's from the same person and so this this question actually comes from my 28 day challenge, which is a community a program I have for moms that walks them through multiple 28 day challenges every month. There's another 28 day challenge. But we have a community and this is where she asked the question. So I'm curious. So the first part of it is about kids earning money and having jobs. I'm curious what do your kids do for work and how do they learn?

work ethic. Our oldest is almost 16 and starting a job this summer which is flexible, thank goodness, but as much as she and our family goes places we're trying to make sure we're home for part of the summer so she can get hours at that job and earn some money. I know there are ways to earn outside of a typical job. You have a list of ideas for me? We considered selling some of her crafty works on Etsy and she's done babysitting jobs.

but I don't see the online options really paying off. When we consider doing yard work for others or house cleaning, etc. I wonder how safe it is for her to go to homes alone. And I feel that our summers will be eaten up soon by all of our older kids trying to hold down jobs. My husband feels it's so important for them to learn how to work for someone and they can work during the school year, but it would have to be a really flexible employer. Above any insight you or others have. So that's the first part of the question.

Rachel Denning (06:45.837)
I'm going to talk about the other one in a minute, but do we want to dig into this first? Maybe we should read the second question so that then we can go back and combine it because they fit together so well. Exactly. Okay. Then this one's about wealthy kids. Greg said once that his children will be wealthy when they grow up. What is it that gives him that kind of confidence without, of course, just giving them the money? Do you have any books?

that you read in our teaching concept to your kids or having your kids read. I know you guys do things the non -traditional way, so maybe there's more there that I don't know about. It seems that most parents send their kids off into the world and tell them they have to work hard and hope they survive financially. I imagine our kids will struggle at times, but that provides good and healthy lessons for them. Do you include that part of growth on their own as something they will experience before they reach, quote, wealthy?

And if they don't go the traditional route with jobs, what are they doing to create that wealth? Wealth isn't everything, but money is a necessary tool in our world. And Greg's comment just got me thinking. Along those lines, what are your thoughts on Dave Ramsey's teachings like the total money makeover? It's not on Greg's list under business and money. Tell me more. Okay. So the answer to the second question about, because I wholeheartedly believe that my kids will be wealthy.

And I've shared that before in different settings. And we've told them. Yeah, we've told our kids. The kids are like, well, yeah, of course. Well, OK, this ties in, I think, as you're speaking, I'm remembering just a few months ago, we were in the Sahara Desert with all of our children because they had they'd moved out. A few of them had moved out and they had come back. We were all together. We took this trip in December over Christmas and New Year's. We drove through Morocco.

We went to the Sahara Desert and I remember us sitting around the table and we were also leading a trip so there was other people with us. There was this whole group of people that had joined us on our trip and Kaya, our oldest daughter, she said she was going through and just talking about morning devotionals we'd had and different things we talked about that she could remember growing up and one of them that she remembered was

Rachel Denning (09:08.429)
Mom, I remember you telling us it is our moral obligation to become wealthy. She just remembers that. I mean, that's just in her mind. That's how it is. It is a moral obligation for us to become wealth. And so it was really fascinating because we then we had this whole little conversation. That would have been years ago. Oh, yeah, it would have been a while ago. And of course, people that were on the trip were interested by this like, oh.

Really, why are you telling your children that this is a moral obligation for them to become wealthy? So in a lot of ways, the answer to the question is in part this type of framework. Like we truly believe, you and I personally, and we have taught to our children and continue to teach their children that it is a moral obligation for us to become wealthy as individuals. And I would say this applies to anyone who can, anyone who has the mental, physical capacity to make it happen.

It is their moral obligation. Now, why? We can try to give an answer here, but the most eloquent answer that I've ever read is chapter one of the Science of Getting Rich by Wallace Waddles. Absolutely. Just that one chapter is worth memorizing. He nails it so solidly there. After you read that, you realize, OK, yeah, I have to do this. In fact, it's very fascinating because he

He talks about it and I've heard many other people talk about it too, that it is a sin to be poor. You are literally sinning, however you define that, by being poor, by remaining poor. So it is your moral obligation to become wealthy. Ultimately, in summary, you should definitely read the chapter of that book, but the summary is you cannot become the best version of yourself unless you have the wealth to do it. And his premise is, and I agree, you cannot do the work God sent you here to do. Exactly.

You cannot draw close to God and be, you know, do what you were born to do unless you become wealthy. Yeah. And, and I think we're definitely going to touch on this as well, but we also have to redefine what wealth is because ultimately it's a mindset. It really, in many ways, it has nothing to do with the number in your bank account or the number of assets you have. Now, all of those things are great and they all definitely equal wealth, but you can have people that have

Rachel Denning (11:32.686)
tons of money in the bank and tons of assets and still be poor. They're rich, but poor. Yeah. Yeah. But, and then you can also have people that may look like, oh, yeah, they don't have a lot. And maybe they don't have a lot of money in the bank, but they're actually very wealthy because it comes down to the mindset. Now you may think that that's just semantics here or whatever, but it really does make the difference because it's your connection to money as a source.

that flows in and out of your life that ultimately matters. It's not about how much you've amassed and how much you've acquired and all of that. That can definitely play a part, but it's more about the mentality. It's more about... And the relationship you have with money. Because money is one of those things... There's a few things in life you have a relationship with and people have a relationship with money. Yes. Like it or not, people have a relationship with money. So it's the quality of that relationship and then it's...

it's getting enough resources. Okay, and just a little side tangent here. It's also we also by our definition consider a person to be wealthy, who is also very resourceful. Yeah, because where there is ever a lack of resources, it can be made up for by resourcefulness. Yeah. And so being extremely resourceful is wealth. And on that note, having we're going to get into this more.

having lots of skills and lots of knowledge, having the ability to learn, the ability to learn skills, the ability to adapt, all of that is wealth. If you are as agile as a cat and you can adapt and hustle to life. Exactly. If you're creative and hardworking and not just hardworking, just go do what you're told, work, work, work. That doesn't turn into wealth. That's just.

Which we want to talk about in a minute because I think in a lot of ways that's in people's minds like you need to go get a job and work and I want to talk about that but the other key here is I remember for me this made a big difference along our own journey was understanding the difference between being broke and being poor because there is a difference. You can be wealthy and have a wealthy mindset and be broke meaning you're temporarily out of money or capital.

Rachel Denning (13:55.949)
which can happen for any number of reasons. And if you study the lives of the wealthiest, like legit wealthiest people in the world, they've always had periods of being broke, but that doesn't matter because you can still be fully wealthy and fully confident in your ultimate success and ultimate triumph of an achievement of your goals and dreams. And at the moment be out of money. In fact, that can be part of your journey to wealth is making decisions, taking risks or investments or whatever where

you choose to be broke because you're like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to sacrifice here. I'm going to make this investment. I'm going to go big or, and then either you make this sacrifice to succeed or sometimes your investments or choices don't work out. And for whatever reason you end up in time periods broke. Yeah. Which often provide powerful, I mean, I know in our own life, provide powerful learning experiences that help you in your ultimate achievement of wealth.

And so, and then with being poor, poor is essentially a mindset. Poor is this idea that I don't have enough, I'll never have enough, I can't do it, I can't find solutions, you know. There's not enough in the world. There's not enough in the world. My circumstances are always against me. If others succeed, I fail. Yeah, exactly. I just had another thought there though. So yeah, she's talking about, so she says,

It seems that most parents send their kids into the world tell them they have to work hard and hope they survive hope they survive financially First of all, like we always say hope is never a strategy I imagine our kids will struggle at times but that provides good and healthy lesson for them. Absolutely So when when you confidently make a statement that my kids will be wealthy that doesn't mean that they won't ever be broke Right. Yes, but this is very important to distinguish. Yes inside

Wealth mentality and let's call it a poverty mentality or scarcity mentality. So abundance and scarcity inside both of those realities You know one family both families let's say two families family a family B So family a has the abundance mentality and they say of course while our kids are pursuing wealth they're gonna have times they're broke and The scarcity family says yes, you know, our kids are gonna have hard times They're when they're gonna be broke so they can learn those tough lessons

Rachel Denning (16:20.461)
They both want the same thing, but it's not the same thing because they're going to have periods of brokenness, but it's for different reasons and definitely leading to different outcomes. So that's an interesting one. It kind of tricky because both family A and family B are saying, yeah, you know, of course our kids will have times when they're, when they're broke, when they're struggling. But I don't know. I'm having our time articulating it well enough, but it's, it's going to be a different experience for them and a different outcome.

Cause the family A might be, he's like, he's broke cause he's working tons of hours for free to build his business. And when it gets on the other side, he's going to get paid exponentially. Right. Where the other person is broke because they thought, Oh, the only thing I do is get a job. And so they go get a job making minimum wage and put in hours and hours and hours and hours just being broke, working super hard and getting nowhere. And on the other side of that, what do they have?

Nothing. Well what what they might have because this is the general formula is they're gonna climb the corporate ladder until they reach the top which At the top for our standard is still broke right even at the top of that quote -unquote corporate ladder So it's a different formula. It's a different approach. So you're right it can on the outside look Similar or the same but on the inside in in the mindset

there's a huge difference and there's a huge difference in outcome because you're applying a different formula. And so, yeah. And you can see in your mind's eye, you can see child A and child B running into each other somewhere at the gym or on campus or something and they're like, yeah, I'm broke. Like, yeah, me too, or you're totally broke. And they're both having this broke experience, but the one is gonna make millions and have tons of time freedom and the lifestyle wants, the other one's just gonna incrementally make a little bit more.

each year and still struggle, perhaps indefinitely. Well, yeah, because we, I mean, the story is all too common of the kid, especially because you're like talking about being on campus where they go to school and they they go to become a doctor or a dentist or a lawyer or some, you know, profession like that that requires a degree and they put in all the work, they work hard. And at the end of that, unfortunately, except for the ones who are willing to work 100 hour a week.

Rachel Denning (18:47.213)
They're practically broke. In the end, like they're not, they're not, at least according to the real definition of wealth, which includes time freedom, money freedom, emotional, mental, emotional freedom, lifestyle. They're not wealthy. If you have to work a hundred hours a week to maintain your style of living, that's not wealth. And by my definition, if you have to work 60 or 50 or sometimes even 40, it's like, wait a minute, if you, if you still have to consistently put in,

Those hours and you don't get to choose when you were aware or you don't get to dictate your own kind of lifestyle then Again, and everyone has a different definition by my definition. That's not that's not well and we'll get more into that but you got to have those targets and and I have the privilege and opportunity to coach and surgeons and dentists and doctors and health care practitioners and engineers and All kinds of so you're hearing it first and they're telling me like this is what's going on?

And the ones that succeed in those industries, and this is what I do with my coaching clients is you help them get into real business, become very business savvy and to start, you know, approaching their industry and their, their, their skill of whatever, whatever they're doing, approach that differently so that they can become wealthy and have freedom. And it's, you know, you take, I think, you know, wealth is a great one. A lot of people think, well, you can go into dentistry or into medicine and.

If you're not careful, you just end up being a well -paid employee. Yeah. And it's a real suck sandwich. In fact, we had this conversation a few weeks ago with a friend of mine who's a surgeon. And it's like, look, if you're not business savvy and kind of calling the shots for yourself and being independent of the big, I don't know, the big system, especially in the medical system, then all you are is a high -paid employee. And they dictate, you know, oh, you only get two weeks off a year.

And you have to do this and you have to do that. And we take all this and we get all that. And so you end up like, gosh, this is a suck sandwich. I'm back being told what to do. I have almost no freedom and, and, and I'm not, and I'm not making as much as I would on my own. I'm making less. And so I'm just a well -paid employee. And, and if you talk to a lot of them, the lifestyle is kind of crappy. And so you see the ones that really start thriving are the ones who are the absolute best at their craft and are business savvy.

Rachel Denning (21:14.317)
They become investors and businessmen or women. And that's how they succeed. So it's an interesting framework. It's like, are they succeeding because they're a doctor or surgeon? In most cases, no, it's they're succeeding because they're they got business savvy. It's because they're businessmen or business women. They're entrepreneurs or intrapreneurs inside their industry. That's why they're winning. Not just because they went and went school, got the thing and they just come out. Most of those people are just kind of still just roll along and.

are pretty frustrated with the lifestyle and the outcome. Interestingly, and this is tragic, dentists have one of the highest suicide rates. They just get into it and they just hate it. Well, everyone hates going to the dentist. Maybe that's why. And it ends up being quite a grind. Anyway, that's kind of a little side topic, but it fits into this framework of like, where are your kids going?

Where are you going? Where are you directing them? And yes, they've got to have those times where they're broke and they got to have their times. Of course. Of course they do. That's wonderful. Of course that's on the path to creating wealth. Yeah, absolutely. But, but, and I think this ties in great with also the question about the job, but the difference is, yeah, are they going through that time period temporarily? And early on? And early on, or, or is it something they just plan on doing? Cause a lot of people have that mindset. We know that.

or they just figure you're going to struggle for most of your life financially. And then at the end, hopefully you can retire with some sort of somewhat comfortable. We used to believe that and share it. And it was, it was shared with us. It was, that's what was taught to us. And we thought, Oh yeah, you struggled, sacrificed and wondering, you have some freedom. I was like, now looking back, I'm like, good night. That's a terrible formula. How did we even survive? Let's back up. So both Rachel and I grew up in both broke families and.

poor families. So again, it's okay to be broke, but we grew up poor also. We both inherited a poverty mindset and we were broke. I mean, my family was on welfare a long time. Same. My parents working super hard just to try to feed. We both grew up in families of six kids and parents were working hard, just grinding, trying to feed hungry little families.

Rachel Denning (23:38.957)
We both grew up with very, very limited experiences and exposure because of the poverty we grew up in. And we both inherited a poverty mindset. And we were bought in, man. We drank the Kool -Aid completely. We were converted. And it became kind of religious, so to speak. Yeah, I remember specifically times when I literally just thought wealthy people were...

First they were born that way, like you were just either born rich or you were born poor, nothing you could do about it. And that most wealthy people were selfish and probably sinful and definitely prideful and not good people. Like that was my thinking. Like that's what rich people are like. Because whatever class you're in, you think, oh, these are the good people. These are the people who are doing it right. And I'm here, I'm doing this right. And I'm a good person and I can't seem to get ahead. So these guys must be doing shady stuff.

And then you hear stories of them doing shady stuff or you meet people that are genuinely selfish or rotten and you think, gosh, I wonder if they're all like that. Exactly. Which isn't fair because you'll also meet selfish, poor people, and dirty rotten criminals. And it's interesting. Yeah, there's all kinds and all groups. Yeah, and every economic, socioeconomic level, you're going to find honest people and dishonest people and good people and kind of rotten people.

and every kind of behavior. But I want, okay, so we did not, we weren't born on the platter. We did not inherit. On the platter, that's good. And they go, and inherit, you know, wealth or, you know. A wealthy mindset even. Not even a wealthy mindset. We weren't given any money and we earned it, man. And it wasn't only because we work hard. Of course we've worked hard, but we also had to learn how to work smart. And creatively. And we had to change our.

underlying beliefs. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. We had the totally transformative beliefs, which was quite hard. It was quite difficult. It took some those babies were deeply rooted and they were in there. I still find them sometimes I'm like, oh, there's a little weed. And we had that we had to fight it. We had the totally transformative beliefs, but we both were committed to not pass this on to our children. We were going to be the stop in our family lines. We were going to be the ones that said, no, we're not.

Rachel Denning (26:02.605)
perpetuating this. We're not going to pass this on. We are not going to, you know, just let our kids stay broke and poor and we're not going to perpetuate it. Which I think ties into the next part about, you know, jobs. And it's kind of funny, I think that we should definitely talk about this because Greg and I have had an ongoing conversation with our kids about whether or not they should get a job.

And Greg has always been on the side of, no, you should not get a job. You should not have a job. And I've been on the side of, hey, you know, having a job could be a good experience for them. And so it's funny that this question comes up because this has been a conversation with us. Now, one of, I think maybe you should explain your viewpoint, like why you think they should not have a job. Our children should not get jobs. Yep. So the only...

literally the only understanding I had, gosh, it would have been until mid to late 20s for me. So we were married and had kids before it even dawned on me that there are other ways to get money. The only thing I knew is I get a job. And again, it was, I hope somebody gives me a job. What else was it? Cause you didn't have this viewpoint of I am a person with value and I have skilleties.

and I'm gonna bring that and add value to someone. And they want me and they're gonna pay top dollar to have me with them because I'm bringing value. I was just like, man, please give me a job. I'd go put an application in. I need some money. Please give me a job. Please, please, I'm broke. I gotta pay my bills. That's the reason. Please give me a job. And I remember thinking, praying, fasting, pleading. I hope they give me a job. I hope somebody gives me a job. It was a total victim mentality. It was the only thing I knew. Nobody had taught me otherwise. I didn't know anything different.

All I knew is like if I wanted money, I get a job. If I want more money, I get another job. Exactly. So when we were married, I had two or three jobs. So we could have more money. There was many times like, oh gosh, we need more money. We have more kids or we have more expenses or car broke down, something happened. What do I do? I'm going to get another job. I'm going to work more hours. It never occurred to me until in my late 20s after reading lots of books and really fighting through and releasing this poverty mentality we had.

Rachel Denning (28:27.469)
that I realized, oh, wait a minute, there's a totally different way to do this. I can provide value. And here's the framework, you guys, write this down, teach it to your kids, embrace it yourself. The ultimate equation is provide value to the marketplace. It can come in almost any form now. We live in the most abundant economy. You provide value to the marketplace in exchange for money. That's it. Now,

Sometimes that can be a job. Sometimes it looks like a product or a service, entrepreneurship. Even now, you can share information in exchange for money. And if you provide value, you get paid. If you provide more value, you get paid more. Like a simple equation is, is the value you offer the marketplace worth $50 an hour, $500 an hour, or $5 ,000 an hour, or $50 ,000 an hour? I mean, it keeps going up infinitely.

There are people who make $50 ,000, $500 ,000 an hour of their work because they have that much value they're offering the marketplace. So that's one framework there. And the other one is if they can create it and then sell it to a limited number of people or an infinite number of people. So you take an author who writes a great book, Paulo Coelho, who wrote The Alchemist, right?

And many other books. And many, many books. Literally the more. John Maxwell. I mean, all these guys who just crank out books. That book goes out and now it is unlimited. It is literally infinite. The Chicken Soup for the Soul guys. They've sold more books than anyone ever on the history of the Earth. They're trying to sell one billion books. So it's infinite. So they create it and then it sells. So they make millions and millions and then tens of millions and hundreds of millions of dollars.

of something they created, that's what I'll, they offered value to the marketplace and that is literally infinite for them. Right, now bringing this back though to our kids because you and I both know that while it's possible for a teen to write a book and sell it, that's definitely an option. A lot of teens aren't gonna do that. But this entire framework that you have about, and many times you have been very adamant about like, no, my kids are not getting jobs.

Rachel Denning (30:46.733)
And the reason why, well wait, the reason why is because ultimately you want them to understand that principle. And within that adamant stance, you've also basically said, yeah, if it helps you to achieve your ultimate goals, that's going to help you be an entrepreneur, that's going to help you bring value to the marketplace, yes, then it's valuable. And so anytime our kids have considered jobs or whatever, you've always asked them, is this going to help you?

And is it worth the exchange rate? And is it worth the exchange? Because when we were living in Georgia, one of our kids was like, oh, I think I'll go apply at Chick -fil -A. I'm like, hold up. Wait a minute. Let me outline what this was like. How much do they pay over there? Right. Right? And it's like. Well, and especially during that time, he was also actively involved in stunts, stunt acting, which didn't pay a lot, especially while he was doing the training and the practicing and all of that, like all of that he was doing for free.

But we asked him, we're like, what is it you ultimately want? If you want something like becoming a stunt actor or something along these lines, or you just want to earn some money at Chick -fil -A, is this helping you reach that goal? And he ultimately decided, no, it's not because one, it's going to interrupt with my training time. Two, it's going to limit me. I'm not going to be available. Because one of the reasons he did get paid professionally to do stunt acting and one of the reasons was he was available.

He was available, he actually made very fast progress in the industry, like faster than usual. And part of the reason for that is that he was available to be there when jobs are available. And he worked very hard improving his skills. He was offering more value, he was making himself more valuable to provide more value to the marketplace. So he occasionally made really good money. Yeah. And so he opted to not get a traditional job because he was able to...

quote -unquote work for free for a while and then ultimately be able to be available to get paid jobs now. But he still needed money and we still wanted him to quote work hard or learn how to work and work with others. I think people are right, no they have to get a job because you have to learn how to take orders and you have to learn how to work for somebody else. You have to learn how to deal with people and deal with problems and like trust me you will learn that if you're excelling. If you're pursuing wealth you will learn that. There's there's no

Rachel Denning (33:11.853)
There's no scenario where you're not gonna learn those things. So why sell yourself so short? So in this, let me tell you. I know, I'm sorry. We're both so excited about this right now. I think one of the reasons though, for not getting the job is because you then, here's where I think we underestimate how important this is or how much of an impact it has. You literally surround your people, yourself with people who are job people. Yep.

So you spend a majority of your time with people who have a lack mentality. This is one of the reasons why we are against jobs. Not that I've always been against jobs, but that's one of the reasons. That principle alone might be worth it. Yeah. But here's what we did for Parker. Well, here's what he did. Okay. Well, he's like, I need some money. I'm like, well, how could you earn more money? You're going to go trade your hour. So let's say Chick -fil -A wants you to work.

four hours a day. And they're gonna pay you like $10 an hour. Like what could you do that's more valuable than that? And you're like, I don't know. So we started brainstorming ideas. And that's part of this question is like, well, what can they do? And again, I understand this because I was back in that mentality where I'm like, the only thing I can do is get a job. Like what else can I do to get a job? I wish, oh, I wish.

when I was 16, 17, already out on my own, somebody would say, hey, Greg, here's at least 10, 15, 20 things you could do to earn way more money. And minimum wage. Way more money than minimum wage. And your income will only be capped by your own effort. Like the determining factor on how much you make is you. I wish somebody told me that. I didn't get that. I didn't learn that until in my late 20s.

And so I was part of a realm, well, we live in a wet, humid climate here when we were in Georgia. I'm like, you can do pressure washing. Everybody's driveways and decks and houses, they need pressure washing. He's like, oh, pressure washer. I'm like, well, I could lend you the money to get a pressure washer. Let's walk through this. I'm like, how much could you charge? And we went through all the numbers and he's like, yeah, okay, let's try it. So we got on Facebook marketplace. I went, I taught him how to negotiate and we got a great deal on a great machine.

Rachel Denning (35:34.061)
And so I was okay, you're going to have to pay me back for that with your earnings. I'm like, now you got to go knock doors. And I was like, Oh, for this kid, just like go knock on a stranger's door. It was terrifying. And he's kind of, he's more introverted. And now he's literally, he flew out today, he's going to do summer sales and he made late money last summer, but this was the beginning. This is where I wanted to go with it because that was where it did start when he was younger. He was probably 16 around that time. And yeah.

He was like, I wanna do stunts. I don't wanna have this Chick -fil -A job because that would interfere with my stunt training time. And so he did the pressure washing and he did. It was difficult for him because he didn't wanna go out and talk, but he did it. So first of all, that's the most valuable thing right there. Maybe he's not making as much money as, worst case scenario, as he would be if he went to Chick -fil -A and it's not as consistent.

And it's not as easy because you don't just have to show up and do whatever they tell you. It's harder, but in the end it is way more valuable for them because they now are gaining skills that they can use when they are business owners, entrepreneurs. Yes, yes, yes. That would be worth it. The skills, what they're doing is they're increasing their earning ability and their own value for the marketplace. But the lowest he ever made.

was double, over double what they would have paid. And sometimes he made as much as four times or five times per hour that he would have earned at a job. So he made way more money in the same amount of time and he developed all those skills. And he dictated his own schedule. Yes, and he dictated his own schedule and what happened. Then down the road, he eventually ended up deciding that he was gonna...

stop pursuing stunt acting because in order to really get in the industry, he had to be all in. And he was planning to take off time to go do service work, which he's going to be doing soon here in Spain. But he was then like, well, I need to earn some money. What can I do? And then that's when an opportunity for doing sales, solar sales in Florida, presented him because one of your coaching clients is involved in the company.

Rachel Denning (37:58.093)
And he went and did that. And because of that experience he had with pressure washing, it laid the foundation for him to go and do sales. And he was, he was able to make great money. Like in a summer, I think he made what, like 20 or $30 ,000? He made $30 ,000 in three months. And for a 19 year old, 18, 19 year old, that's great. That's good money. Right. But that all came to be...

because you discouraged him from getting a job at Chick -fil -A or even I think once you considered getting a job as a lifeguard or something. You discouraged him from doing those things because you told him he needed to be doing things that were improving his skills that would help him be an entrepreneur. Oh, here's the other piece. Cause we talked to the lifeguard thing. I'm like, if you're a lifeguard, you had, you just have to sit there, bro. You will sit there and watch the little kids playing in the water for hours and hours and hours, you know, all day, every day.

where with the pressure washing thing, he put on these noise canceling headphones that he bought and he listened to phenomenal books, business books, personal development books. And so he's expanding his knowledge while simultaneously expanding his skills. I mean, he was making himself more valuable while earning more money. Exactly. Let that sink in. Like, that's the equation. You can make yourself more valuable while earning more money.

And so part of us though, as parents, the challenge is we think, well, the kids want money right now. And especially if you feel like you're not in a place to, because another thing which we can talk about is that we also pay our kids to work for us. They do jobs within our business. They do jobs that we would hire other people to do. Like if we were going to hire someone to do our yard or whatever, like that's a job we offer to our kids. So that's another way they get paid and earn money. But if you feel like you're not in a position to do that,

First of all, work on changing that because you need to be in that position. But the next thing is you have to be careful to not exchange what you want most, which is your children to have a wealthy mindset and an entrepreneur mindset for what you or they want in the moment, which is some money to spend right now. And easy money. I think sometimes we go to the job because it's easy money. Yeah, absolutely. If I go over there and they offer me a job, then I got to just show up.

Rachel Denning (40:17.677)
do what I'm told and then give me some money and go home. I don't have to think, I don't have to hustle. I don't have to get out of my comfort zone. I don't have to do things. And that's really what's holding kids back. They don't want to do the harder thing because it's hard, right? Who wants to do the harder thing? But we actually sell ourselves and our kids short when we just say, yeah, go get a job plus thinking.

That's how you're gonna learn how to work hard. It's not no way You're gonna learn how to work hard by going out and doing that thing that you don't want to do absolutely but see we in in this kind of mindset we sell ourselves for like I work hard I'm learning work ethic here and this how to deal with on, you know, yeah unpleasant people And you kind of pat yourself on the back and you put your kids on the shoulders. Oh, you're working hard buddy. This is great and and entrepreneurs

can work circles around us, both of us put together. I mean, they know how to work and they know how to work smart. They know how to leverage. That's the key is you can use a lever to lift 10 times, a hundred times more with the right lever. Right. Well, it goes back to what you were talking about before. I mean, on the outside, it can look like the same thing. Yeah, they're going to a job and they're doing something they don't like and maybe they're getting out of their comfort zone to do that.

but compared to the work required to do the other thing, it's way different and the outcomes are entirely opposite in a way. Like the outcome of doing that is you're literally training yourself to have a job and to put up with all of the things that come with having a job, which any of you who have a job know what I'm talking about. On the other side, yeah, it's harder. It is harder to make money that way because...

There's more responsibility. Yeah, it's more responsibility. You have to be the one telling yourself. And that was himself. He realized it himself, but he was the one that was holding himself back. He was the one who would get lazy or be like, I don't want to go out today or it's hot. And then he didn't make money that day. But he learned that lesson early on while he was 16 or 17 or 18, rather than waiting until he's 20 or 30 or whatever to learn those lessons.

Rachel Denning (42:38.797)
He's the only one holding himself back from making the kind of money he wants to make. Yeah. Now this worked with our oldest daughter too. And with our third child, our son, Kimball, they all did the same thing. They went out and they ended up, you know, getting jobs, but even the times they got jobs, they were operating as intrapreneurs. We had trained them like you hustle and provide value inside the organizations you're working with or for, and you'll get paid more.

Like we always teach our kids be an absolute linchpin be indispensable, be an asset. They and they have that they've had it since they were little kids. And we just trained it in because that's how Rachel and I are. We we live like that. And so we train our kids like that. So how can I make a confident saying my kids are gonna be wealthy? Because we have trained them to be assets, to be linchpins to be indispensable to whatever they decide to do to do it so well. And

be the kind of person overall that's valuable. And so it's just a simple formula. It just works. Right. So one of the things I was going to add to this whole formula that we're talking about is because in some ways we think, oh, my kids need to have a job. They need to be working because of all the reasons mentioned. But along with this approach of no, our kids don't need jobs,

or shouldn't have a job, we've also had this underlying approach that like your main job, right? Cause you do have a job. Your main job is to make yourself more valuable, to get the education, to develop your skills, to try different things too. And we were talking about this with our oldest son last night before he left. He was like, he's been listening to a lot of Jordan Pearson.

lately and he's like, it's so fascinating to me that I'll be listening to things he's saying and my mind is making all of these connections because of all of these different experiences I've had or books that I've read or places I've gone. He's able to make connections because of the neural framework in his brain that has occurred by all of the experiences, books and things he's done. So while our children are young and growing, that's the most important thing they should be doing.

Rachel Denning (45:00.493)
More important than going to get a job to just earn money, they need to be having experiences, developing skills, reading books that are laying the framework and the foundation for their future success. We have to think of this as a long -term strategy. Forget about earning money this summer. Where are they going to be in 10 or 20 years? That's what you need to be focusing on now is that framework that's going to pay dividends.

And I'm going to even take that to the next level. Um, before we, Rachel even shared these questions with me this morning, I was already doing some writing and thinking this morning as part of my own habit. And I sat down this morning and it just really struck me the great force. And I wrote this down and I want to share it right now, but really with what she just said, the number one habit, number one habit to massive success is to make yourself more valuable.

That that's it to me. It is non -negotiable. It's It's indispensable. It is a daily habit It is a way of being it has to fit into your life religiously That your number one habit and like you're saying for your kid your number one job your number one occupation is to make yourself more valuable Ultimately, it's to be an asset to humanity to be valuable in every way possible but specifically in the framework for money and

it's to dramatically improve your earning ability because that is your greatest asset. Your greatest asset, your greatest financial asset is your own earning ability. And like I said earlier, your earning ability is determined by the value you bring to the marketplace. So you deliberately and intentionally and strategically make yourself more valuable. Yes. Like let that sink in. Make yourself more valuable. And then guess what? You earn more money.

So every single day, no matter what you're reading, studying, learning, practicing, experiencing, exposing yourself to new things that make you more valuable. That is the most important thing that any of us adults and our children can be doing on a daily basis is making ourselves more valuable. And Rachel and I have been doing that for decades. Absolutely. So which tying back into part of this question is like, well,

Rachel Denning (47:23.853)
we want to go out, we want to have experiences, we want to do things. A lot of times for us, that took higher priority than our kids having a job. There was no way we were giving up that experiential learning so that they could go to a job and earn some money. Make minimum wage, like no way. That exchange rate sucks. Coming full circle, when the times that they did have a job, it usually was a more immersive experience.

And that was generally when they were older, 17, 18, 19. And they would, like for our oldest kids, they went off and were actually either moved out temporarily or whatever, and were working full time at that point. And so it was an intended, like they would go out for four or five months and work full time the whole time, and then would come back to us to then be immersive in.

continuing to make themselves. Man, and they because of what we were teaching them and leading them and coaching them and mentoring them, they would hustle and grind and lead and right out the gates. We're getting leadership opportunities wherever they were working. They're given more responsibility and then more responsibility and then more responsibility. So the skill development went through the roofs and the earning capacity went through the roof. They earned. And here's what I'm saying. These things too, like our three oldest kids have all earned way more money.

than I ever did. Even in their 20s. They all have these savings accounts. I'm like, I don't think I had that much money in my savings account until I was in my late 20s. I was just at these little jobs just doing everything I could. And then we got married and broke. And then the kids kept coming and just like, oh. And I'm like, gosh. They already have this set up. They're already ahead. And all three of them so far, they're like, oh, I need some money. I know what I can do.

They all have that. They have multiple avenues of income streams. And they're highly valuable. I don't say this to brag. People are pleading for them to come work. They are highly valuable. And so no matter where they go, they have people who are like, yes, I would like to hire you. Our oldest daughter, when she moved out and started working, she was almost immediately in a management position. She got paid extra because she already had the skill of speaking Spanish, so she was bilingual. She had the confidence.

Rachel Denning (49:43.277)
and competence to be able to set her own schedule and work her own hours. And when someone was like, nope, sorry, you have to, she had to work on Thanksgiving one year. And she was like, no, I'm sorry, I'm going to visit my family. And they're like, well, you're not gonna have a job when you come back. And she's like, okay, fine. Because she knew, not a problem. She's gonna get another job. In fact, she's the best at this. Yeah. Like she'll have legitimate, five or six legitimate job offers like.

that. And then she'll come to us. She's like, Oh, which one should I take? Like, she'll never, none of them, none of the three so far will ever have any limited offers of employment or opportunities. They they're just loaded up and ready to go. And they earn great money and they become assets. Now, what's what's even more fascinating is like, well, this has always been the case, but most of the workforce is okay, they're just not assets. They're usually liabilities. And again, I coach a lot of businessmen and entrepreneurs.

they're constantly frustrated with trying to find good workers. It is so hard to find people who are willing to take on responsibility and show up and do it. So train your kids to do that and they'll, they'll earn great money, but even more so, and again, it's not for everybody, but in our family, I'm leading my kids to entrepreneurship. They, they get to write their own ticket and determine their own future and determine their own wealth. Right. Well, and then so back to that idea with the finding competent workers. I mean, our son,

Well, here's the other thing I guess I'm trying to tie in a couple things here one of them, you know, because you're like our kids will not have a job and what you meant is Because our kids have had jobs. They're not gonna have a job just for the sake of having a job, right? they're gonna have a job that one matches their interests and in every case this has been true and Like it's the lifestyle that they want right? So like our daughter when she was tested with I don't get to go spend Thanksgiving with my family. Nope. Sorry. I'm out. I

because lifestyle is more important than the job, right? That's something we've always taught. You have to find work that fits the lifestyle you want. If you do it the other way around, that's just another form of poverty. So our son, who is very hands -on, he loves fixing manual labor, being outside. He went to work at a farm for a whole summer. He's done this at least two years. And loved it.

Rachel Denning (52:05.485)
Absolutely loves it. He loves working on a farm getting up early milking the cow like all this stuff And hold up because because his employer saw his value He's like I'm training this kid and he of his own accord like no extra cost to us or to Kimble He trained him how to drive tractors how to drive someone how to drive dump trucks how to run and operate Heavy equipment all the tools that work with all the animals. I mean he just trained him. Yeah

So he came away from that having earned all this money and an education way more skilled. Like he walked away as a more valuable asset, which I'm grateful for because it's going to be valuable for our beach resort property. Now that's going to be a small mini farm too. Like we, he has so much value. It's incredible. But, but because he was so valuable. I mean, one of the things they talked about was at this farm, they can never find good workers, young or old. They don't show up.

They don't want to do hard work. They like on and on. They give them big responsibilities that they can't handle it. And they finally had Kimball and I think this is a testament to the value he brought is that this, you know, these, the owners of the farm had not been on a vacation for like a decade or something crazy because they didn't have anyone to take care of the farm. They had no one that they could trust.

to run the farm so they could step away even for a weekend. Because understandably it was a gigantic responsibility with a lot of moving parts and a lot of living creatures. Right. So Kimball at the age of 17 was given full responsibility of their farm so they could go on their very first vacation in years. That's huge.

That's a testament to what we're talking about. And this isn't just about having the job. This is about having the skills, the competence, the capabilities to be trustworthy, to be competent, to be capable. That's what you want for your kids. That's what you're trying to create. You're trying to create and facilitate growth so that ultimately you are making the most of yourself. And that right there, that right there is the foundation of wealth.

Rachel Denning (54:18.957)
when you can learn to make the most of yourself and become valuable.

That's wealth. Because ultimately, like you said, it's your earning ability. As long as you are valuable, you will be able to earn. So how do you become valuable? I still average a book a week, and I have for over two decades. We buy books endlessly on Audible and in paper form and e -books.

So that our kids have books, we are constantly encouraging even paying our kids to read business books and wealth books. So we're implanting the right ideas, the entrepreneurship, the business ideas, the wealth ideas. Both of our boys specific well and our oldest three have been through, well, four have been through phenomenal books about business, about wealth, about investing and about specific skill sets in business.

And they devour them and they love them and they implement them. Um, and so our two boys just went out and they're going to work together here for a little bit. I I'm very confident they're just going to just crush it. And they've been training for the last several weeks, devouring sales books and the mindset and the work and the ethic. I mean, they're, they're putting it all together. They get this stuff and they're going to be leaders and they're going to, they're going to lead out in, in results as well. So you have to have the conversations.

Model the way so I'm kind of giving a framework or model the way show them how to do it So if you don't know how to do it figure it out fix it get it figured out then teach them have conversation about mentor them coach them and and give them the books and the experiences and put it in there and coach them through it like there's the best thing we could do is coach our kids through the experiences especially if we can do it when they're still at home or living nearby we can coach them through this process so that they have these fault these micro failures and

Rachel Denning (56:19.373)
in these attempts to start businesses or figure things out and you help them tweak it and figure it out. So even like, you know, the online thing, they're trying to sell things on Etsy. That's possible. There are people making fortunes on Etsy. I just saw something. I think it was on PragerU about these two girls. I think they're 19 and 21, but they literally have an online business selling chapstick made from beeswax that they've started. Now it did say in the video, which of course I figured and I thought was...

Very insightful that their parents are entrepreneurs and so they taught them how to do it But that's it. It's that simple. So yeah, is there a learning curve for all these things? Is it gonna be challenging? It is yeah, you're gonna have to figure it out, but people have succeeded at doing it, which means You can figure it out, too Now is that gonna be as easy as sending them off to get a job and then they get a paycheck the next week? No, it's gonna be harder But ultimately

What outcome do you really want? Right. Exactly. And there's going to be, when you try to choose your own path, you're going to work for free. You're going to put in a lot of hard work, a lot of hours for free. And people, most people, that's just, it's too big of a barrier. Like, wait a minute, I have to put in hundreds of hours for free. I literally don't make any money for hundreds of hours work. And they're like, yeah, because you're building something that's yours. That's, that's ownership. That's entrepreneurship. That's what that is.

And most people won't do that. They're like, well, no, if I'm going to work 100 hours, I got to make my $10 an hour. Or for some of you, it's $25 or $50 an hour. But there you go. You put your own limit. You tap your own growth. Because you're unwilling to do the work up front that has the larger payoffs that it's backing. Exactly. Right. So yeah, are there books? Are there concepts? Exactly. You already have a list in your book list. I'm pretty sure I have some in mind, too. We have two different book lists.

But that read them all we say this to people all the time and they don't do it But read all the books and like oh, that's a lot of books. Yep What else you gonna do to yourself sit around be poor? Come on. You're killing me. It's hard to do work. Yeah, try being poor That's super hard. That sucks. So read all the books if the books are on the list We've read a ton and if the books are on list read the books and I have even when I call my Bible series in every genre so the absolute best

Rachel Denning (58:43.725)
finance and business books. I'm in my Bible series. Like you just read those again and again and again. Well, the Bible of finance is, I would say currently, Tony Robbins' money master of the game. Yeah, it's a fantastic framework, especially for investing. But wealth mindset, definitely the science of getting rich by Wallace Wilde. Absolutely. So yeah, another thought I wanted to add, because this is important too, is we're, along with modeling, like we're continuing to model. It's not like we're done and we...

think we've arrived and that's it. Now we're continuing to grow in our own wealth, our own learning, our own growth. And as we do that, we're sharing the process with the kids. I think perfect example is what's happening with us right now. We bought the resort, which we're calling it, here in Portugal. And as we keep telling ourselves and our kids, opportunity is dressed in overalls and looks like hard work. It's a lot of hard work. But as we're going through the...

process, we're also discussing it and it's fun to hear the conversations like you're having with our son and he's asking about this and that and the different part of the transaction and the real estate deal and all that. That's all part of the education to help him learn to have this mindset and how to work through these problems and how to invest, right?

Rachel Denning (01:00:05.389)
specifically, I was gonna say two of them, but actually all four of our oldest kids are already have the investors mindset, we've just drilled that into them. And they've watched us make and grow our investments. And you know, they're like, well, that's, that's pretty sweet. I want that, right. So again, you're showing the way. But we just drill this investor mindset in them, like you guys got to be investing, you got to be investing, you have to be investors. And, and they love it. They're, you know, investing in

Well, it starts with investing in with yourself. Yeah, investing is where you begin. Number one investment is always in yourself and increasing your abilities. But then you got to invest in other people's businesses and in stocks and Forex and crypto and real estate and anything that you can. Maybe not all of those, but. Eventually, eventually you should have all those things. But you can also like you just take like what can I invest in that I can get for a good price and that make it more valuable?

So even just like yourself, right? You take you take you as you are and you say, how can I make myself more value? You're remodeling yourself. You're upgrading yourself. You're updating yourself. You do the same thing with, with vehicles or real estate or whatever. And they're seeing that. And all of our kids are already actively pursuing those things. You're preparing to pursue those things. And they're just, they're excited and anxious to get into the, the investing game or already have done it. And you can do the smallest scale, which our daughter is taking.

Antique furniture that's all beat up whatever and refurnishing it and then selling it so that's a small level But you can do it with vehicles you can do it with you know all the way up to apartment complexes and hotels like whatever You just have to learn a thing like that and they are thinking that way because we're we're really pushing that mentality and skill set mm -hmm So the last thing we need to address because we said we would it's talking about Dave Ramsey's total money and

I think the perfect answer to this in a way, at least the beginning of the perfect answer came from my cousin who is, she's my assistant and so she helps in my community and she's in the forum and everything and she gave this great answer. She basically said, as far as Dave Ramsey goes, I think he has some good ideas for people who want to stay in the middle class, but I feel like he is limited to that. I'm not sure his ideas are to help people be wealthy.

Rachel Denning (01:02:32.237)
but just to stay in survival mode. I've tried some of his programs and it just felt so limiting. And then she ends, if you want to teach them well, I would have them read the books that Greg suggests. Which, okay, hold on, which one of the books I suggest, which I think is absolutely phenomenal is called Entrez Leadership by none other than Dave Ramsey. And he tells his story of how he became

wealthy. So doing what he did is far more valuable for becoming wealthy than doing what he teaches. Yes. Because what he did to become wealthy and what he teaches other people to do are different things and I think she articulated it quite well. Yeah, right. And I think a lot of people don't understand that they think, oh Dave Wolf, Ramsey look at him, he's wealthy. He must have became wealthy by doing what he's teaching and he's not. I think he is teaching things that are good for average people to

in the middle class to not be broke or poor. But it's not about becoming wealthy because it's a totally different strategy. It's a completely different mindset. And it just depends on what you actually want. And he has some great stuff, really great stuff. And he talks about, you know, getting out of debt specifically and having those things paid off because then you have some freedom and there's some real power there. But it's not how he or others.

became really wealthy. Well, and I think that that's actually something I've learned along the way and I've had to grasp and understand that a lot of people who attain wealth because of their money mindset, their confidence, their competence, their skilleties, they use debt as a tool. And you and I had a conversation about this the other day, like debt is a tool. It's neither good nor bad. It just depends on how you use it. It can be a two edged sword. It can cut things and it can...

It's like a power to be productive. Yes, like you can get so much work done or you can chop your fingers off Well, exactly like we you know, we talked about that if you're trying to build a house Do you want to use the nail gun or do you want to literally pound in every nail by yourself? Like yeah, the nail gun is gonna get it a lot faster get it done a lot faster But there's also danger there because you can cause real damage you can hurt yourself You can injure yourself like sometimes you can kill yourself with power tools

Rachel Denning (01:04:57.741)
You have to be careful, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use the power tools. It just means you need to be very safe when you use them. Now in my mind's eye here, I can see some view, you know, think, oh, but God wants us to be safe and be frugal and this stuff. And immediately I thought, man, look at the parable of the talents. The guy who played it safe, he got his one little talent and he wanted to keep it safe. He didn't want to take any risks and he buried it.

And he got the most severe ripping. Yeah. From the master. And you're like, wow, there's there's no soft, sweet little old Santa Claus there in that story. This he got ripped and then lost what he had lost. We had where the other guys, the guy with five and go to they went out and risked them. Right. They went out to work. They went out and did leverage. They're like, Hey, I'm going to go take it. I'm going to I'm going to put it to work and I'm going to double it. And they brought back double.

but there were risks involved. They were out using it. And again, the power tools. And it ultimately wasn't about how much they produced. It was the fact that they were willing to take the risks and they were willing to try. Exactly. And right. And so when we're unwilling to take those risks first, you can't really create wealth. You cannot create wealth unless you're willing to take risks. It's just the nature of it. For some reason.

That's how it's designed. That doesn't necessarily, I don't want to be misunderstood here. That doesn't necessarily mean you have to leverage debt. That could be one of the risks, but the principle is yes, you have to take risks. Absolutely right. But in this framework, debt, taking on debt or using debt or leveraging debt can be a tool that is used and is often, if you study a lot of people, it often is a tool that they use to create. So do my coaching clients.

Oh yeah. They'll put together deals and like, Hey, how's that deal going? It's like, well, I just signed, uh, $10 million. I just signed here for $5 million in debt. Whew. To get a loan. That's a big one. Right. Exactly. And you're like, I feel the weight of that. You're like, I gotta make this work. And, and I think that that's the point. You should feel the weight of that because as it being a power tool, it's potential for danger, for death, for destruction.

Rachel Denning (01:07:20.045)
But the power tools also build and they build faster. And so I think ultimately coming back to this whole diet idea with David Ramsey, if you read his book, he used debt. He lost everything at one point. His story is similar to other people's stories in that he's utilized debt. But what he teaches is to not do that. And so that's a very different thing. Right?

He's a great entrepreneur. Okay, so I just want to make sure we thoroughly answer the questions and make sure we hit everything we wanted to share. So yes, we're teaching the kids. Yes, we're encouraging them to hustle, to get work, to do great work. To do it, yes, I would say definitely I'm all in favor of a non -traditional way. And I want my kids to live this legitimately.

extraordinary family life. And actually, let me give a little bit of framework on our life. We work, I don't work full time. I think we have to put a caveat here. The truth is, I think you and I work all day long, but ultimately we're doing work that we enjoy. We're working on ourselves. We're working on our projects that matter to us. We are working on our businesses. We're working with our kids.

So when you say I don't work it it's different than what people you're working all day, right? Yeah, you guys might think gosh Denning just laying around poolside with his lemonade. Yeah, no that does not have like you don't sit still No, I'm not I'm never sitting still unless I'm practicing stillness or reading or studying so you're right I'm doing that so I'm working but like this entire last weekend working for money. Oh

like is not even close to full time. And I'm with my family. This is important. We have most of our meals together and we are, you know, with our family. I'm with you guys the vast majority of time. That is the lifestyle I wanted to create. Right. And we are together. You do work you love. I do work we love. We spend tons and tons of time with our children. This isn't just those rare, you know, I'll hear people say it's quality time over quantity. Bogus. It's both.

Rachel Denning (01:09:48.621)
It is tons of quality quantity. And they have to have that. We have all that. We have this lifestyle. We've been to so many countries lately. We're actually all traveled out. And that's hard for us. We're just like, okay, can we be done traveling for a little bit? Nine countries in the past year and a half. Yeah. So we're all over the planet and loving it. It's amazing. And we earn, last year, every year our business grows, probably every quarter.

That's kind of the ideal is that every quarter your income increases from your investments and from your business. And we earn more than, quite a bit more than doctors make and dentists and highly paid employees. We earn good money while we have this phenomenal lifestyle and in this extraordinary family. Well, one kind of ridiculous example is last year we got our urine report.

on travel alone, which includes the trip that we led for other people. We spent $225 ,000 just on travel expenses. Right. Which is insane. But it did include all the trips that we led. And it was awesome. That was the bucket list year. But and so, OK, you said something there about like you don't work for money. Well, ultimately, in our framework of wealth, all of that thing, all of those things you mentioned are working.

for abundance. Absolutely. Because abundance is more than just money. It includes money. Like we mentioned before, you need to be wealthy in order to make the most of yourself because you need to have funds to pay for all the things you want to do to be your best self. But wealth is more than money. It includes the lifestyle. It includes doing the things that you love. And as an example of the work that we do, right? Like this past weekend, it was our anniversary. We went and stayed.

at our new resort, which we don't officially take control of until April 1st, but we went and stayed there. We worked the whole weekend. You guys need to come stay with us. You've got to come stay with us. It's going to be awesome. As soon as we open up, we'll let you know, please, please, please bring your family, come stay. It's going to be such a special place. But we worked the whole weekend is my point. We didn't work on our normal businesses, but...

Rachel Denning (01:12:08.685)
it wasn't a weekend of just luxury and laying around. We were going nonstop from sun up to sun down, like go, go, go, go, go. And having a blast. It was so fun. Right. Lots of shopping, lots of planning, strategizing, measuring, all that kind of stuff. That's the best kind of work. Yeah. And you guys, some of you might be like, oh, that's not that, you know, you guys are so idealistic. Not everyone can do that. It can't be done. And I call bogus. Well, we would have believed that. Yeah.

23 years we've been married 23 years 23 years ago. Absolutely would have thought there's no way there's no way we can do that. And here we are now, we're doing it. Everybody does stuff they hate and you know, just sucks, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, no, you can do, you can finally create work that you absolutely love to do. So, you know, if you would have looked at me and Rachel this weekend, you'd be like, are they playing or working? Right. Are they celebrating and having a blast or are they getting things done?

Well, we got to do tax free investing shopping sprees, right? So we're literally shopping and I'm like, this is an investment and it's tax free. This is the best type of shopping spree there is, right? You know, and so it is, it's fun. And but it is, it is also work, work for money because it's an investment in long -term wealth. And so, and there's strategy and there's risk.

behind it. Right. But the reason that we've got to this point, the way to this point is because we refused and we have refused to allow our children to simply trade hours for money in a traditional job framework. And long term, this is the payoff. You get to have this kind of freedom down the line because you're willing to work for free.

Well, and I think there's a perfect point there. You have to work hard, take on big risk, work for free. We didn't get paid. So we worked four days straight. And spent a lot of money. And spent a ton of money. So yeah, we were upside down on all of this. Right. Right. So far. We didn't get paid. We paid out and we worked our butts off. It's a risk. And there's a huge risk. But all of that's going to pay off massively. And we're teaching that same principle to our children. Exactly. It's like, no, you know, don't just take the traditional job.

Rachel Denning (01:14:31.085)
like figure out a way that you can earn a lot more and earn it quickly. So for our three oldest kids, probably four, I actually, from here on out, and this is amazing, so they're 20, 19, 18, and 17. From here on out, I don't see them going through this period of like the only taking this crap job that they can find somewhere and going somewhere where they don't want to live.

and struggling. I don't see that. I think we've already given them the tools. They've already had their experiences where I think they're just going to move past that. They're going to be hustling. Now they'll make investments. They'll make sacrifices to make investments. They'll take on risk and not all of the risk will work out. We'll guide them and coach them through that. So it's more likely to succeed, higher probabilities. But I just don't see them struggling like you and I struggle. We got married, so broke.

was eat more ramen noodles, babe, because we can't do anything. We've already taught them how to succeed. And they already have savings accounts, and they have money to invest. Well, and most importantly, more important than the savings account is they have the skills. They have the skills and the ability to hustle, and they're valuable. People can clearly see that whatever they decide to do, they're going to bring value. They're worth it. I love it. So I knew there was a couple other questions here we didn't hit that I want to.

When the question came in she said when we consider doing yard work for others or house cleaning I wonder how safe it is for her to go to homes alone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for asking that it is so important because Please ladies and gentlemen do not be naive There are people doing horrible horrendous heinous things. Yes in your neighborhood

We sometimes think, well, not in our neighborhood. Bad things never happen here. They happen in other places, other countries or other bad cities, but not here. They're happening in every city, every neighborhood, every community. There are child abusers and child sex offenders. There are perverts and dishonest. And they're like, well, not in our church. Our area is very Christian bogus. In every church, every congregation, there are people doing horrible, horrible things. They just haven't been caught yet.

Rachel Denning (01:16:54.861)
or they've been caught and you don't know about it. I promise there are people in your church congregation who are wearing like those devices around their ankles that are hidden because they can't they're on house arrest for things they've done. Like this is most you just don't know or too naive. So yes, extreme great. No, it's not like I hear this all the time. I hear these stories. I work with people like this. I know specific examples myself. I get to see this stuff. So do not be naive. So that's an excellent question. Like, Whoa, is it safe? So I would say

No, it's not safe. So then here we are. We're at this crossroads. Beautiful. Like, well, that's something she could do, but it's not safe. Boom. So what do you do? Most people are like, well, she shouldn't do it. Then I say, actually turn her into a weapon, make her an absolute. All of your kids should be weapons. They should be absolute weapons. Turn your children into weapons because they're going to be an asset to humanity. They're going to be able to protect themselves and they're going to be able to protect other people.

who can't or don't know how to protect themselves. All my kids are assets, they're weapons. Like somebody mess with them, I feel bad for that person. Or if somebody else is being threatened while my kids are around or I'm around, there's gonna be hell to pay and it's gonna be ugly. You bring violence to that doorstep or to my face or a threshold in my family, oh, it's gonna be ugly. So our daughter's 17, so really similar age. Would I have any problems sending her over?

to somebody else's house alone to do yard work or house cleaning. Not at all, because she's a weapon. And actually, she's gonna go over there with weapons. And they won't know that, but she's gonna be weaponized. And I've taught her, trained her, how to turn, like how to use anything as a weapon, right? So she's in the yard. Anyone who is not familiar with this idea yet.

He's gonna think this is crazy. We're gonna have to do a whole episode about it because it's very important. But every single one of you listening to this right now should read When Violence is the Answer and you should have your kids, once they're like 12 and up, read the book When Violence is the Answer. I don't know about 12. 12 to young. Okay, 14. I would say, depending on the child. And the maturity level. 15 plus. Okay, because it is violent. And violence is the answer and I wholeheartedly believe with this.

Rachel Denning (01:19:14.957)
this guy and he I think he's accurate and spot on. My older kids love it. My daughter love it. And so she would go over she she knows how to fight yourself. In fact, just this morning, she's like, Dad, we need to start training martial arts again. She was asking me she's like, let's get into it again. Because we've taken a break with all this travel. But she's going to go over there. She knows how to fight herself. She knows how to use she's going to take weapons that she can protect herself. And she knows how to use everyday things that are around her as weapons. So I'm not afraid for her safety.

So like what I said over there she has the training and exactly she's might set to be aware and wary exactly and so she can go over there she can read the situation she read the people she can protect herself and go over to an opportunity where she can make great money great money doing yard work or house cleaning because those are great options and still protect herself so again it's just it's the framework of preparation this is you know this is the initial danger which is when you're assessing a situation once you know get to know someone and you know

then you know, you begin to have a better idea of who you can trust. And so there's levels here as far as this goes. Now, the other thing I did want to point out is because not all of our children are weapons at the same degree of competence. Obviously our seven year old is always going to be watched. And sometimes with our 21 year old, she has this fight or flight thing where she's going to want to have

someone with her. And so in cases like that, you know, we use the buddy system. We travel all around the world and Greg is very diligent about assessing situations and ensuring that, especially in a new place, which we don't know yet, we're always together. We don't just go off by ourselves to. We call it, we call it the security detail. Right. Exactly. If the little girls or Rachel want to go do something like that, take the security detail, which includes our.

older boys or our daughter. Exactly. They're the security detail. So it's just something, I guess the point is, and we've talked about this a lot before, we know, I know we have other episodes about, about sex trafficking and things like, it is a real thing. It's a real issue today. It's something that may not have been an issue in past times, but it's certainly an issue now. It's an issue in schools. It's an issue at work.

Rachel Denning (01:21:40.717)
It's an issue at church. It's an issue everywhere. Yeah. And the point is not to be completely distrusting of all people, but to be distrusting of all people, wary of people you don't know. And even wary of people you do know. Yeah. It's the most common thing in the world for people to put on this show to pretend to be good when they have these private, horrible, horrible, heinous habits and addictions. It's just really bad.

One last thing I wanted to hit, it comes up all the time. People are like, I want to make sure my kids know how to work. And I agree. I think how we define that is really important. It first came up when we said, you know, hire somebody else to do the simple chores, outsources so your kids can focus on their education. This was in another episode. This was years ago. And people's immediate response was like, no way. My kids are doing chores because I want them to learn how to work.

I thought, wow, if you think chores is work, like we're operating on a totally different plane here. And it depends how you define chores, like farm chores, they can definitely be work. Sure, farming can be real work. But if you think doing laundry and doing the dishes and cleaning the bathroom is going to teach your kids how to work hard,

I would say in a very loving way, you don't know what hard work is. And that's not discounting the importance of doing that kind of work. It is a type of work and it needs to be done. And every child, every person should learn how to do that. Yeah. And they should learn how to clean a toilet very thoroughly. Learn how to wash dishes, learn how to do laundry. But it's not the same as digging a ditch. I hear people use this all the time. It's their constant thing of like, oh, my kids learn hard. And it even comes up in the question. My husband thinks my kids should go get a job to learn how to work hard.

Again, I'm like, let's take a step back. If you literally think going and doing that job is hard work, we're operating on a completely different plane. I wouldn't look at that and say, that's hard work. I wouldn't at all. I wouldn't say, oh, now you're learning work ethic. Oh, you're learning. That didn't even show up on my scale of hard work. But that's because I'm going to train my kids, and I already have. Dude, they can work hard. They can grind. Here's a perfect example. We were out.

Rachel Denning (01:24:07.565)
on a hike in Iceland and right when we get out the storm rolls in and it ended up being a legit storm this baby was for reals the wind the rain it was that sleeting painful rain that's almost hail and the wind was blowing like it only does in Iceland and we were drenched and it ended up being crazy far I think it was like I don't even know it was way farther than we thought we thought it was gonna be like a kilometer maybe two

It was way more than that. We get all the way back in there. We thought we were going to this hot spring. So we get out there. Can you picture it, you guys? It's like 30 degrees. It's just sleeting. The wind is blowing like mad. I mean, we were drenched and cold and shivering with all our clothes on, all our gear. And we stripped, all of us stripped down to our underwear to get in this hot spring. We get in and it was just barely.

It wasn't lukewarm. It was like luke cold. It wasn't warm. So you know, because the warm water was coming in. And so it just it just took away the edge of the cold. And we're like, are you kidding me? So now we just got completely wet. We're standing in our underwear completely wet while the wind and the hail and the sleet is just pounding. It's the kind that hurts, right? It stings your skin. We're all standing there like, are you kidding me? And you have to hike back. And we're dressed. So our clothes are just so

all the way through our gear, everything. So we're trying to get bundled and you're so freezing now you're shivering your your muscles are locking up your fingers, your toes. I mean, like this is insane. And again, I was assessing everything we weren't taking risks for hypothermia or whatever. Obviously, it could have turned into that situation. So we get all bundled back and I'm like, let's just run, we're gonna get our body temperatures back up, we're gonna get off this mountain, let's go. And it was so fun, because we actually ended up helping stopping to help several people.

who were out there and just shouldn't have been out there. They weren't capable. And all the while I had zero, zero concern for my sons because I know exactly what they're capable of. And I kept thinking while running and we're grinding, we were hurting, we were cold, we were tired, we were suffering. It was miserable. And I kept thinking, I'm like, I know what my boys are made of. I know what kind of metal they have, METTLE. I'm like, I know what kind of metal they have. I'm like, I'm good.

Rachel Denning (01:26:33.517)
Like we could, we could run like this for hours through the night because I've done that with them. I've taken them places. We've done such horrendously hard things. I know what they're capable of. In fact, we pushed so hard over this. It was last year. We pushed so hard and I, they didn't hit their limits, which is pretty, pretty rad. Neither of them bonked. So I know they're capable of more than we did, which was a lot. Right.

And so I'm like, Hey, they're, they're capable. That's, that's hard work. And all these people that go to their job and they do all this hard work and they're hard workers. I guarantee those kids would drop in the really hard stuff. You start pushing crazy hard limits. They're out, they check out. So it's, it's all, it's all relative. Like where do you define hard work? What level is hard work? What are you talking about in our family? Hard work means something way, way beyond chores or even a difficult job.

Well, because in a lot of ways you would never think to define hard work or the ability to do hard things having to do with hike hiking or something like that. I mean, we'll kill Majora's perfect. Kimball and Aliyah. So Kimball's 18, Aliyah's 17. They just summoned to kill Majora. And that was an unbelievable grind. Well, and even our son who didn't summit still pushed his limits because he had

swollen legs, he had cellulitis swollen legs, pain and stuff. And he was still pushing all the way to 16 ,000 feet and was puking. And then he and I had to hike 10 miles off the mountain. So we, and that was after, that was after a summit night, he and I turned around and put out, went out 10 miles straight down the mountain, which you guys know, if you've done hiking down, going down steep volcano, it is a grind on your legs.

We paid a price. And so we think, oh, well, you know, in order to learn hard work, our kids should get a job. When in reality, no, I think nature is obviously one of the best ways to learn hard because there is this direct connection. Unless you think, well, just doing that doesn't mean you can do a hard job or whatever. No, it's directly connected. It really is because it gain. It helps you gain that mental management and that grit that helps you to actually do the things that matter.

Rachel Denning (01:28:55.181)
And that's going to have a far lasting impact than going to Chick -fil -A and taking orders. Oh, 100%. So if you're thinking, no, I want my kid to have a job this summer mowing lawns because it's just good hard work. Mowing lawns in the heat, that can be hard work. Good hard work. Again, it's all relative, right? It's so, OK, it's hot. Whoopty stinkin' doo -dah. And it's definitely a great starting point, though. It is. But I'm saying, especially if you're 10, 11, 12, 13. Sign up for a trath lawn.

You sign up for a triathlon and invite your kids to join you. Right, because you can never get them to do it unless you do it. Yeah, lead the way. Sign up to go climb a huge mountain. Which is the only way everything you just mentioned about our boys, the only reason they are able to do that is because they've literally seen you model it. You've been modeling that for years since the time they were small and I was carrying them. And they talk about the famous five mile hike we went on when they were all small. And by the end, you were carrying three of them out.

because it was so big and so long for little people like since then, like they've just seen you model doing the hard things. And so in their mind, they're like, this is just how you do it. There's not another option. Yep. And what's cool is, is we'll give it some hard and they're like, this isn't even hard. I've done way harder, which is awesome. And that's, that's the framework. Take your kids and go do such insanely hard things that afterwards they're like,

This job, this isn't hard work. No, that's actually powerful right there. It's so powerful. You want them to think that, no, having a job is not hard work. That's easy. Knocking doors in the Florida summer, whatever. You're roofing, you're mowing, it's 100 degrees, 110 degrees, and you're out doing manual labor. Which doesn't, which we have to be careful, doesn't mean it's something you necessarily want to do. Right.

My son because they both just left to go do that and he my oldest son left last night and you know I was just talking to him ask him how he's doing. He's like great. He's like I'm a little he's like I don't know if nervous is the right word, but I'm not Anticipating or excited about the Florida heat knocking the doors, but at the same time he's like just gonna go do it What has to be done? So it doesn't mean you want to do that that one of our favorite quotes the difference between

Rachel Denning (01:31:21.453)
successful people and unsuccessful people is successful people do the things that Unsuccessful people are unwilling to do not that they want to do it But it needs to be done, but they do it anyway exactly and that's that's what we really want. That's the real definition of hard work. Yes Okay, okay, so more more legit strategies tools tactics for yourself

Like if you're listening to this, you're like, gosh, I need to work on my mindset or I need to work on my own skillset or I need to make some bigger investments or changes and even hard work. That is literally why we created the Vida Man Masterclass in Tribe, why Rachel has her 20 day challenge and for moms, it's all in there and how to teach your kids how to, because the implementation of everything we've just talked about in this long episode is all built into those two things. Well, and actually I don't even know if I've told you this yet, but I have emailed.

out about it is that I'm in the process of creating an abundance coaching for moms program. I was just testing interests and so far I have some interests so that's also something else I'm working on is abundance coaching for moms because I know for me personally again like you said we started out with mindsets that were very black very poverty based and we've had to do a lot of work to change that.

but it's made all the difference. And as a mom, if you can learn to stop worrying about money and stop stressing and stop freaking out, like that plays a big role in the overall family economy. And the best way for a mom to stop stressing about money is for a dad to level up. That definitely helps. And make more. So gentlemen, or wives, in fact, I've been doing some coaching.

It's been very sad because the husband's not not fulfilling his role as a financial provider and they've been married for a long time over three decades and he's just he's not doing it and and that's that's unacceptable and So gentlemen, you've got to figure it out. And if you don't know how to figure it out, then you owe it to yourself to figure it out That is your number one responsibilities fear the south and that's that's what I do. So I hope people do that's why I help men do the level up in fitness and

Rachel Denning (01:33:45.613)
in family and in finance. So, love you guys. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being a part of this group. Thanks for caring enough to want to be your best and help your kids be the best. It's worth every effort to do so. Thanks, love you guys.