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Rachel Denning (00:10.478)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. This week we're doing something a little bit different and that is because at this moment, Greg is climbing Mount Kilimanjaro with four of my teenagers and a group that he is leading. That is something we do, we lead trips around the world. And right now I'm in Tanzania and he is climbing Kilimanjaro.

So this week we will not be recording a podcast together, but I thought I would go ahead and release a coaching session that Greg and I did together that I think would be valuable. As part of my 28 day challenge for moms, every week we meet live with the group and we provide coaching, we answer questions, we give...

personalized feedback and answers to people in the group. And so I'm gonna be sharing one of those coaching sessions. It was one that we did at the beginning of the year. It was in response to a question we received from someone in the group who basically, I'll summarize the question, like my husband feels that I don't respect him because I don't clean up the house. He's at work, I'm at home with the kids. I feel like I can't do it all. Like.

how do we resolve this? It's been a major disagreement between us for a long time. And so that's the major question that we're answering in this coaching session. If you're interested in getting coaching from Greg and I, either one -on -one or in the group session, then I would totally invite you to join the 28 Day Challenge. It's a fantastic resource. It helps you walk through building habits of an extraordinary life, the very habits Greg and I have used for years.

And so I'll share the link to join that in the show notes. But I hope you enjoy the session. There you go. Happy New Year, everybody. Can you believe it? Last year, I say this every year, it crazy flew by. I remember thinking last January, like, this year is going to go fast, but I'm going to live it up. And man, it went fast. Luckily, we lived it up. We lived it up. Like, last year was an eye.

Rachel Denning (02:27.758)
I think we went to what? At least 18 countries a lot and and had some really special experiences and oh man did awesome things. But so we had a great year stellar year. It's gonna be hard to beat this year because it was so good, but it flew by, didn't it? Crazy flew by and maybe you guys might have seen. We have some exciting news in our family on the very last day of 2023.

which we realized was one, two, three, one, two, three, right? 12, 31, 23. Isn't that cool? One, two, three, one, two, three. Our daughter got engaged on the top of a sand dune in the middle of nowhere in the Sahara. That's the Sahara desert. A traditional Moroccan proposal with all the Moroccan gifts and camels and somebody playing drums, a Berber man playing the drums and it was.

It was off the charts. Awesome. Moroccan proposal, but not to a Moroccan guy. Yeah. Just arranged by our Moroccan guide. She set it all up. It was it was absolutely magical. It was magic. It was awesome. And we led a trip. It just ended yesterday. Actually, it just ended today. This morning. Yeah, I flew back this morning from taking the trip. The people back. So we're in Marrakesh right now. He flew with the group to Lisbon last night and then he flew back to Marrakesh this morning.

And then Rachel and I went and got a hummum. And I don't know if any of you have ever had a hummum. Wow. It's pretty nice. It's unreal. Wow. We got them in Turkey and then we got one here. And it's basically they just scrub you down. It's like it, I mean, I think originally it comes from the ancient Roman baths and they just, they have these scrubbing things and they just rub you down everywhere and get off all the dead skin and.

lather you up with good oils and massage you. It's pretty nice. It's amazing. And you feel like a brand new human afterwards. So we are feeling brand new. It's amazing. Like a new baby. New baby. Okay. Anything to share? Those of you here, anything to share about Christmas, New Year's? How was it? How are the holidays? How was the break? Time with family? Any anything to share updates? You don't have to, but.

Rachel Denning (04:54.478)
I love catching up. Here, I was telling my husband and our whole family like this last week sometime, I was like, my husband's like off the charts with leadership and yeah, just like off the charts. So I was teasing him this last week when we were having family worship and he came in, he was prepared and he was like,

doing something and I was just totally tearing up right as he started. And he's like, Oh yeah. And I was like, who are you like babe Ruth? Isn't that like, you know, the big like batting streak or something like that. And he's like, see, I always told you that, um, something like, like if I revealed my, my true colors, like you couldn't handle it, you know, all these years kind of thing. I was like, whatever, but thank you. Just blown away. And I told the kids that too. I mean, we don't know anything, but I'm just like so thankful.

every single day it blows me away. So that's so love it. Oh my goodness. I do have a question for this for this proposal because you said it wasn't too Moroccan so no camels were exchanged then because my husband always teases our daughter about that. I know. We need to get some camels exchanged here. They can send them for photo ops. It's very funny actually because we brought.

Well, we brought our whole family to Morocco, what, eight years ago, we lived here for three months. And at the time, we were walking through the streets, the Medinas, and somebody said to Greg, I will, I'll marry your daughter, I'll give you like five camels or something, you know? And so that was always a funny thing. And then here we are, eight years later, and she got engaged because her boyfriend came on the trip with us.

and got engaged in Morocco and there were camels but not exchanged. Just for the photo op. The guy just brought it for the photo op. He's like, these are my camels. I'm not getting my camels. He wanted them back. But it was really cool because he really went out of his way to help make this special. He even went and purchased all these gifts. He had this rug custom made for them and this custom made shawl and like all of these things and they had this whole incense thing and then they had us go dancing in the desert and

Rachel Denning (07:12.077)
Like it was really, really - So much symbolism and celebration. Very special. It was really special. And that's on top of the rest of the trip where we celebrated New Year's in the desert and we had a big bonfire and dancing and like, wow. I like it. It was awesome. So fun, fun, exciting stuff in our family. Love it so much. Okay, we promised to answer a question and we didn't get to it. So we're doing it this time.

We're going to answer the question right now and we're going to zip the lips and answer the question and then we'll get to other questions and other things we want to do and kind of a topic for today. So let's hit the question first. So I received a V email, someone who has a, it just doesn't work with her schedule to come to all of the coaching. So she wanted us to record it so that she's like, I watched it. The one you said it was going to be in and you said, oh, we didn't get to it. We'll get to it next time at the end. And I'm like, I'm sorry, we'll do it now. Okay.

I have not gone through all the videos on marriage yet, but you mentioned how husbands really want respect. My husband says he doesn't feel like I respect him because I don't keep the house tidy, which I feel like has nothing to do with respect. And the truth is I find it difficult to do everything because I literally do everything and because I'm home with the kids and he goes to work and he feels like he doesn't need to do anything when he comes home. So he just goes and relaxes with his phone.

Pause. So he goes, works hard all day, comes home, he's like, are you kidding me? Why don't you clean up the house? What have you been doing all day? You're just home. Why don't you just clean it up? Right? Exactly. I can admit I can get better and I'm trying, but the worst part is I can't even mention that it's difficult because he felt like I'm ungrateful because I can be at home taking care of the kids, still trying to figure out homeschooling and how to be more efficient with managing the home and the kids are still so young.

Okay, I got a puzzler. Young kids and homeschooling, two full -time jobs. And he's like, why didn't you clean the house? And sometimes I'm like, I did clean the house and they literally messed it up five minutes before you got home. I actually cleaned the house three times today, thank you very much. Because the kids are little. Right. Oh, it's so funny. I feel like the only thing to do is just get better myself because there isn't really anything else I can do.

Rachel Denning (09:38.893)
but it's affecting our marriage. What are your thoughts? Oh, we got lots of thoughts. Wait a minute. There's something really important here. Well, there's several important things. She says, it's difficult to bring up because he will feel like I'm ungrateful.

Rachel Denning (09:56.781)
So there's, I mean, obviously there's more there that we don't understand. There's lots and lots of details. There's always many layers, of course. It's interesting. It seems like he doesn't necessarily like that he has to go away. He has to leave the house. And if she says, well, you know, he's like, hey, well, at least you get to be home. You don't have to leave, right? Or maybe he doesn't feel...

Maybe he's resentful that she does stay home instead of working. Maybe that's another option. He wants her to be working as well, maybe provide additional income. So it does seem like there's something there, maybe some resentment or misunderstandings that are saying, oh, well, if I talk about how hard it is to be at home, he's going to feel like I'm ungrateful because he's at work, which probably to him is also hard.

He's at work, that's hard. So he thinks your job at home must be way easier because you're at home. And as always, you guys, we're not just answering her question. By answering her question, we're answering a lot of questions. And so your specific thing, maybe yours isn't about house cleaning, it's about something else, but take the issue here and just walk through the principles with us. So obviously there's some misunderstanding here. Like,

She's not entirely understanding what his day is like and he is definitely not understanding what her day is like. So like right out the bats there are right off the bat or right out the gate. So I'm combining two metaphors that don't even make sense to anybody. But I want to say. Are you all of you? Are you communicating effectively with your spouse about what your day to day life is like?

And I remember this being challenging for me and for us early on. Because it's really easy for a man to go away and do all this work and work hard and deal with all these people and all this stuff and come like, you don't know what I had to deal with. I just need to relax. And I sit down like, you've been home all day. Relaxing. You couldn't even pick up the living room so I could like sit down and have a clean room.

Rachel Denning (12:21.101)
And why isn't dinner ready? Like you've been here literally all day. Like you were awake when I got up and I don't even get dinner or a clean house is ridiculous. Right? Like total miss, total miss. And then she would be like, why didn't you come and ask about my day? And tears were shed and like, I had a hard day out of the kids and I was dealing with, I'm like, they're just little kids. How hard can it be? And it's a few toys and things. Are you kidding me?

eight hours and you can't pick up a few things and make a simple meal. Like just total total miss. And I remember when we were working through this, trying to I was like, oh, okay. But when we begin to understand each other better, and understand what our lives are like, and what we're dealing with, it's it's a total transformation in how we communicate and how we are expectations.

Well, I think she she's obviously off to the right start here by saying, you know, I feel like the only thing to do is just get better myself. In a lot of ways, that is the only answer ever because we can't change our spouse. We can only change ourselves, right? And we all know that. I think the hardest part about that is.

Eating that humble pie or sometimes swallowing our pride and saying, okay, in this situation that keep, especially if it's a recurring situation, which it sounds like it is, which we like to call the drama. There's a drama triangle going on here. I do this, he does that and it goes round and round and round. The only way to change that is one of us has to be willing to step out of that triangle.

we have to interrupt that pattern that's happening. So this pattern that's happening, it needs to be disrupted. And often the best way to disrupt it, to get the results we actually want, is to do the thing you don't want to do. Which in a lot of cases is like, okay, my husband wants a clean house and dinner when he comes home, guess what I'm gonna do? Even if the rest of the day is chaos,

Rachel Denning (14:37.453)
I'm going to make the effort at least five minutes before he comes home to clean up the house and to be working on dinner. So then he's like, wow. Okay. And then I'm going to say, how was your day, babe? Tell me about it. Right. And it's, it's to do that and get out of the PJs. I remember that for years. I was like, you were, we were up together at seven. You're still in the clothes. I left you in like,

Your hair is still that kind of day. Yeah, she's like what I homeschool That's the benefit we don't have to get you know But when we do those and it's hard and I totally understand how hard it is because you think No, he should be asking about my day. He should be coming in and being let me help with the kids. Let me do this Let me do that. I need to be getting that from him instead of giving it

But until we're willing to give it, we're not gonna get it in return. So we have to be willing to do the thing that our spouse wants to kind of break down some of those walls and barriers so that then that's honestly the time when they start to think, oh my gosh, she's been so good, but oh my goodness, it's amazing. Wow, I'm gonna.

see how I can be better, I'm going to think about what I can do for her, right? And so that then we begin a new triangle, but it's not drama. When you come up with a name for it. It's like the awesomeness triangle. We're gonna have to work on that. I know we'll work on the name but we started new call the transformation trying. Yeah, the transformation triangle. Because what happens and I just made a note for myself.

Right? As husbands, and I'll share this with my men, and it's in the masterclass that I teach, but I'll share it again. As husbands, we need to go home, and I always tell my men this, and I always tell my coaching clients this, don't go home from your whole day thinking, ugh, I just can't wait to get home and be done with my day. I'm gonna walk through the door, and I'm just gonna plop down and just be like, ugh. Now I can't relax. No way, sir. No way. You have to reset in the driveway.

Rachel Denning (16:57.805)
Before you walk through that door, you better reset as a man and be ready to show up as a husband and a father. And the first thing that men need to do, and I started doing this once I understood Rachel's workload, I was like, okay, wait a minute. I can come home and I can be resentful and I'd be like, you're not respecting me. Or I can just say, hey, wait a minute, I'm gonna spend 10 minutes with the whole family, we're gonna clean up the house. Because if that's important to me, then I'm gonna take ownership of it.

See how powerful that is? If that's important to me... Look at that. It did a thumb. All these weird things. If I just accidentally do a thumb, we start getting all these cool things. If it's important to me, I'm going to take ownership of it. So I'm going to fully expect to walk through the door with energy. I'm not going to walk in and be like, my day was so hard. Why don't you come down and let me tell you about how hard my day was? No, man. I'm going to step in with energy. I'm going to ask my wife.

Hey, babe, how was your day? Because eventually she told me that that was really important to her. You need to come home and ask me how my day was. And so I realized, oh, babe, how was your day? And then she had lots and lots and lots of things to tell me. Sometimes it was about how whales were going extinct somewhere in the world and how it was making us sad. Sometimes it was about, well, who knows what.

And I would just listen and listen and then we'd help clean up and play and I'd change diapers and everything, even though I had already had a work day. Yeah. So what? Right. And but it only starts to create that change, like Rachel's talking about when we both say, hey, wait a minute, we can do this better. We can be more strategic about it. Right. Exactly. And so he's obviously given the vision of the ideal man coming home from work. But on our end,

we can take that same approach and apply it to our husbands coming home from work. So we can do that little, you know, even if he's in the driveway, we're like, oh, he's in the driveway, okay. Do a five second meditation, right? And like bring some peace here and greet him with some love and some excitement. Today, Greg flew home, flew home to our Airbnb in Marrakech and.

Rachel Denning (19:20.813)
He walks through the door and I made the conscious decision to get up and run to him and give him a hug. Because I know he loves that. I love it. It's happened like six times in our whole marriage. And I remember those moments. And I remind myself to do it more, right? They love things like that. So when he comes home, run to the door and greet him and say, Hi, I'm so glad you're home. That right there would make a huge difference. If that was the one thing you did, it would make a huge difference. Let me tell you why.

because a lot of men go out and they have hard days and they do hard things. And they're just like, oh, man, I'm doing this for my family. I don't want to do this. I don't like doing this. This is stressful. This is a pain in the butt. I had to deal with so -and -so again. I'm doing it for my family. And they go home and the family's like, it's about time to get home. And you're like, oh. Go ahead, Catherine. What says Catherine? Hi. Yes. It's like from.

perspective growing up, my mom homeschooled us and stayed home, but my mom and dad, my dad greeted my mom like that. And I still remember it. I got four kids, I'm 38, but like I'm in a relationship and I think about that, you know, we don't live together or anything, but it stood out as being the kid, the way that my dad treated my mom and, and or my mom get up and go greet him. They both did a great job of just stopping what they were doing and acknowledging each other. And that, and that really did something for.

the kids so anyone out you know like we all probably have kids but like it that really does mean something like a lot I hands down that is one of the things I remember the most about being being at home and it was great it felt great so to watch that yeah thank you we didn't bring up the kids perspective right the kids see it they have yeah and it's fun it's like you're like I want to be treated like that and I want to treat someone like that that's really what it does so yeah yes

But such a powerful perspective to bring into this discussion because not only is it going to change the dynamics in your relationship and start that transformation triangle or harmony triangle. And that's that's like that. It's going to improve. The kids perspective of your whole relationship, and that's just one very simple thing you could do, right? You get up and you greet him when he comes home. But what if hypothetical scenario?

Rachel Denning (21:39.853)
You're like, oh no, you guys dad's home. Okay, everyone like act like you're happy. Everyone's pins and needles. Don't do anything that might upset dad. Right. Or whatever. Like what's that showing? What's that training? What's that conditioning? Right. We have to be cognizant of what we're training them to see and expect and think. It's really powerful. Well, and that's, I'm glad you mentioned that because.

A few minutes ago when I said, you know, one thing you can do is when he's coming home, clean up the house and get some dinner going. It's not that's not a helpful strategy if you do it resentfully and stressfully. And, you know, then the kids start thinking, talking about the kids perspective, they're like, oh, gosh, I hate it when dad comes home because mom starts freaking out and like, hurry, clean up the house. No, you make it a fun thing like, oh, dad's home. What are you doing? You're like, dad's going to come home. I'm super excited. Yeah.

We love to do cleaning parties, you know, put on some music. We're going to clean up the house really fast. So dad, because dad's coming home and we're going to start dinner. You make it a fun thing. Well, and even teach your kids. So here's a perfect example. I love that when you tell them, hey, you know what? Dad really appreciates a clean house. He loves it when the house is clean. So because we love him and he loves that, let's set a little alarm and we'll have a cleaning party every day at five or four thirty or whenever.

so that the house is straightened up when dad's coming, because he likes the house, and he works all day, let's do that together to honor him. This is a simple strategy that works really well. I think we underestimate the massive power that simple acts like that can have. We think, oh, it's not that big of a deal. But when we make it a big deal,

It actually becomes very powerful, very transformational. It makes me think of the engagement that just happened with our daughter in Morocco. Really, it was very simple. We were literally on the top of some sand dunes, but they made it special by adding these little special touches, right? They laid out a carpet on the sand dunes and they put up these little tent things and they had tea and they had some cookies.

Rachel Denning (24:03.149)
and they had a little fire and they had this incense and they put the things, the incense in the fire. And then every person that was there walked by and like inhaled the incense of the fire. Like I'm inhaling this part of your, I mean, I don't remember exactly what it was, but like I'm connecting with you in this experience. And then they grabbed us all by the hand and they're like, follow us. You know, they speak Arabic. We don't know what they're, we're just going along and they're like, come this way. And the guy's drumming the drum and then we're, we're going around.

The circle is like dancing and they're doing all these dance moves and we're copying them. We're like, okay, yeah, we're doing this thing, right? And it made it so special. It made it magic. It was literally magic. But it wasn't anything big. It's not like, there was nothing there that we couldn't reproduce, you know? And so when we do little things like that and make these little traditions and rituals,

It transforms family life to become something special and exciting and magical instead of what it is, right? Instead of this drama triangle going on where we keep hurting each other and resenting each other, we do the little things that make a difference to bring back that magic and the fun and the romance, right? Wow. And so both ways we can...

just really say, well, how can I, as a husband, I'm like, how can I help Rachel do it she wants to do? And as a wife, she's going to say, how can I help Greg do it he wants to do? I think this is a perfect place to, well, I'm going to hit a couple of things here. Now, one, she says, you know, we always talk about how men want to be respected. And that's just true. One of, just at a core, core, core level, men, we men, we want and need, it's kind of a core need, we want and need respect.

I think sometimes they need respect more than they need love. Yeah. Men just have this need to be respected. It's just in our biology and our makeup. What's interesting in this particular instance is what's called the hierarchy of values. So people will define it differently, like, how am I respected or how am I loved? Right. You've heard of the love languages, like who I just want to be loved and like, I'm doing all this stuff. You're like, well, no, you're not loving me. It's like, oh, I'm totally loving you.

Rachel Denning (26:27.181)
And you might say, well, no, you're not loving me how I want to be loved. So Rachel wants to be loved. She wants to be admired and adored. But and cherish. Thank you. She's whispers to keep telling me what I need to say here. She wants to be cherished, right? But I have to cherish her how she wants to be cherished, because in her head, she's like, I want to be cherished. And that means this, this, this and this, which is a good thing. But I will never know that I am.

Men are just so terrible at guessing and take and hints. We are terrible at taking hints, you guys. So if she's like, I want to be cherished and this is what it means to be cherished. I'm like, oh, I can totally do that. I do cherish you. And now I can cherish you like that. Where if we don't ever communicate that stuff, I'm like, I am cherishing you. By going to work every morning, I'm cherishing you're like, no, I want you to come home from work and ask me how my day was. That's cherishing. It's really, really powerful.

But I want to explain the values hierarchy real quick. So every single human being has a values hierarchy. Most of us are unconscious about it. It's just kind of an unconscious hierarchy. And we wouldn't call it a values hierarchy. We don't know what's going on. But in our lives, every single one of us has maybe 15 to 20 things that are really important to us. And if we wrote down the things that are important and we put them in order, it starts to lay out and you start to see why there's

a Mrs. in marriage. So it seems like a clean house is near the top of the husband's values hierarchy. Specifically this husband. This husband in the question. And I would, I'm just guessing here that these are hypothetical, right? And so let's say maybe it's number two or three for him. And let's just say it's maybe seven or eight for her.

For her, it might be like, I'm spending time with the kids and I'm doing homeschooling and I'm working on my education and I'm preparing good meals and I'm being present to help the kids and I'm taking them on adventures. And so maybe, you know, maybe she wants to have a clean, straightened up house, but it comes down below other things where the kids are first or whatever. I'm just pointing this out. So let's say his is at number three and hers is at number eight. Do you guys see how there's going to be conflict? It's a miss. So very often for women,

Rachel Denning (28:49.389)
some sense of safety and security and certainty is very, very, very near the top. Where for a man, it's down a bit here and that's why they miss, right? Or spending quality time together. For one of them, it's like right at the top and the other one's like, oh, it's a six for me.

Well, and then something like that even gets more complicated because the husband might say, well, I'm spending quality time with you by taking you to the movie. And she's like, that's the worst way to spend quality time. I want to go to dinner and have a conversation. So then there's another miss because he thinks he's doing that. And you're like, no, that doesn't meet my definition of what quality time is. So let's do this for a second. Think about your spouse right now. Think about your list and his list.

I mean, this would be a phenomenal exercise for you to do together. And I would highly, highly, highly recommend it, whether it's a date night or a weekend away, go through your hierarchy values and just kind of just outline them and be like, let's list them and get clear. Or also just start paying attention when your husband starts getting upset about something. You can now be curious and say, hmm, I wonder if that's really high on his values hierarchy, right?

instead of being bothered or upset, get curious and say, that must be something that's really important to him. Let's take an example. Maybe your husband wants to journal at night. Journaling is really important to him. And you is spending time with the kids, helping them get into bed. It's super high. Do you see that? How that evening could end up being a chronic drama triangle.

This is really important to him and he's trying to make it fit and this is really important to you, but they seem to be in conflict. And the reason I want you to do this exercise and think through this is because once I realize like, oh man, what's a number 11 for me is a number four for Rachel. So what can I do to see how important it is to her and behave differently?

Rachel Denning (31:06.989)
And what can she do to realize, oh, it's not as important to me. And where can we meet? Is this making sense, guys? Are we articulating it well enough? Wherever you are in the hierarchy, you have to see, wait, how can we meet on that point? Where can we get some alignment and meet? And as a general rule in my life, I want to rise to the higher value. So if Rachel says it's really important to me, I want to go up.

But I would like her to do the same thing. If this over here is really important to me, I want her to come up. I don't want to go down. Health and fitness, what were you gonna? I was gonna give a simple example like making the bed. Years ago, you know, we read books that talked about if you make your bed every day, you know, that's one of the... It's a great habit. ...keys to having a great life. And so we started making our beds. So we make our bed every day. Like, we're in an Airbnb, I made my bed this morning. Now, in our own house...

I like it done a certain way and like the pillows a certain, you know, and Greg living out this principle that he believes in, he said, okay, that's a higher standard. I'm going to rise to that standard because he believes that we should always rise to the higher standard of the people in our life. And so yeah, you do that with health and fitness as well. It takes, it takes a lot of work you guys for me to try to get the pillows right.

It is. She has to come back in and put the pills in the right spot. I'll just turn it. Yeah. I put the pills back on the bed. Right. So I'm like, if she wants it like that, she's like, hey, it's important to me. OK, I'll figure it out for me. Health and fitness. Super, super high priority. I mean, massive hyper. And Rachel's like, oh, but working out would make me sweat. Right. Way longer. We had to figure out where to meet. Mm hmm.

Right? So you will have differences in your values hierarchy. And I think that's a good example too, because in that case, I had to go up and you, you didn't go down, but you learned to adjust not your own expectations for working out, but what that looked like for me, if that makes sense. Right? He had to readjust his expectations of what.

Rachel Denning (33:30.317)
exercise looked like for me because as I did my own exercise journey, one of my roadblocks or obstacles to doing it, especially as a young married couple, was I thought, exercise looks like what Greg Denning is doing and I can't do that. And so I started to just say, well, guess I'm not doing it at all because I can't do what he's doing. Like I'll never be at that level. And I had to finally learn, oh wait, okay, actually,

Exercise can look very different for me because I'm a very different person. And then he had to also learn, oh yeah, exercise is gonna look different for her because she's not me. So that's, I think, another example of how you mesh that. So I would actually love to hear some examples right now. Well, I wanna read this comment actually really fast. We implemented this cleanup.

prep with efforts to keep it positive before dad comes home several months ago and my husband has noticed and he has commented, been grateful and his mood seems to be so much better when he comes home on a regular basis. He has also been so much better about asking me about my day too since I consistently reminded him it means a lot to me. Love it. Yeah. That's perfect. Nice, great example. Plus the fact that you say you consistently reminded him that it means a lot to you.

That's a key piece as well. Okay, yes, we are gonna take more questions. I think I had one more thought, but you better go while I. And Lena, is your question related to this topic or is it off topic? Not off. It's off topic. Okay, before we get to it, we'll get to it right now. Before we get to it, I just want everyone to share at least one example. Can you think of one example where you notice the values hierarchy different from your spouse? Just quickly, I just want you to get the wheels turning.

Go for it. Mine's acts of service. So I feel loved when my husband, you know, provides acts of service and that might, and that to him is not as high. So that's an example for me. Yep. Excellent example. Excellent example. And so you two have to find a way to make that meet. And if it's higher for you, again, the ideal is he comes up to that. Right? Good example.

Rachel Denning (35:53.549)
Others, go ahead. I would say for us, I definitely need a lot more words and he's not very wordy. So that's catching up. And I'm like, I'm like, it's free and it feels so good. I'm like, isn't that like the easiest thing? So now sometimes I tease him because I'm like, I'm a team date. I like chicken wings. And I'm like, but I really like it when you say, you know, you're proud of me or I look pretty, whatever might be right. And he's just I'm more and more like, wow, he just like.

He just doesn't use his words. He's like, my actions speak louder than my words. And I'm like, they do. But I really want both. Oh, this is hilarious. I was so thinking that up. I'm like, gosh. I'm like, yeah, just your words. It's free. I'm like, I mean, I can want a nice pair of $1 ,000 boots, but that's not what I want. I want your words. Yep. And it's so funny because most men are just not worthy. And when you're like, why don't you say nice things to me? He's sitting there going, what?

What should I say? I'm like, just tell me what's in your head. You're pretty. You look pretty. You're pretty. And is there anything else? You look beautiful. Well, what else? Girl, you... We have an inside joke now. I've seen Madagascar. It's the one where they land. They crash the plane. It's a cartoon. Yeah.

And the hippo, the female hippo, she sees the guy, Moto Moto, and he's talking to her and he's like, girl, you're huge. Girl, you're huge. And she's like, well, what else? You're huge. So that's my joke. That's my now cue to him. Whenever he's telling me things, awesome, babe, you're just so great. I'm like, you're huge. And he knows he needs to get more specific. Oh, right.

You did raise your hand. Do you want to share yours? Wait, she did. Wait, did she? This is related to my question, but I did think one of my things that is very important to me is financial transparency. That's a big discrepancy for us, like financial transparency and like wealth building. And like I see it as a form of progress in life, whereas he's like, money's not important to me. It's not.

Rachel Denning (38:17.645)
not a big deal. I don't care. And I'm like, I don't care for money for the sake of money itself, but I care about like, feeling like we're progressing. And I feel like it's a tool to align our goal. So even if it's like not about the money, like money is an indicator of where your values lie, like where you spend it. And so for me, it's really important that we're aligned and where our goals are. And if something's really important for him to spend money on, like I get that, but I need to understand how important it is. So that's, that's been a big one lately. And -

Oh my goodness, that is such a great example. How important is money? How important is how we handle money? Transparency to money? That one is a big, big, big one. That's a great example. It reminds me of religion is a big example. Politics is a big example. Food is a big example. Did I mention religion already? Sex.

Right? It's these ones that can be big, big, big deals. For some of you, like sex is going to be incredibly important where there was like, eh, you know, or money here or religion here or politics here or education. So you might be like, education is so important. He's like, eh, right. Or vice versa. So find out where those are and then get a life and start paying attention. I think at the very least, if you start paying attention to these things, you'll start realizing why you're having some of the.

difficulties you're having because you suddenly now have this framework of, oh, we have a different values hierarchy for this topic. And then you're able to kind of discuss it, especially if you can share this idea with them and say, I learned about this values hierarchy and to me, this thing is high on my hierarchy, which even, you know, mentioning the money there, Greg had already talked about how for a lot of women, security,

And safety, like that's high on our values hierarchy. And for a lot of us, that is connected to money. And so it sometimes comes down to, I don't feel safe and secure unless, you know, we're making this financial progress or whatever. So good stuff. Okay. So let's go to your question. That's perfect. That's perfect. Lead it. This part has been removed to protect the privacy of the group coaching member. Thank you for sharing that. Thank you.

Rachel Denning (40:44.045)
That context was very important. If I have enough thoughts right now, I could write a book. This is huge. So, so important. And there's all kinds of underlying things there for you and him. And you guys, it's true for everybody. There's underlying things that don't get expressed thoroughly enough to understand like what's.

what's happening with each other. That's why we keep missing. The thing I was going to say, my first thoughts are at least not just us, but in our relationship, when we figured out that when we're having conflict, there's actually multiple layers of things that are happening. So you can be having a conversation about finances, but it's actually not just a conversation about finances. There's always at least...

often two layers or more. And when you can learn to grasp that and comprehend that, it really helps you to take it apart so that you know what you're actually talking about. Because sometimes we think, oh, we're talking about how to do the finances, but he's talking about these underlying fears he has and you're talking about this. And so you're not actually talking about the same thing, even though you kind of think you are. And then there's a lot of confusion that arises and a lot of

You're like talking in circles almost. So when you can begin to identify... He misunderstands the ultimatum. You're like, hey, I need clarity. And he's like, he can be... Because you guys, every man is going to be... A man's greatest sensitivity is about his ability to provide well and to fill that role as a man. And anything out there can seem like a threat to that, like an attack.

Like, so I don't know him, but he very well could be sitting there thinking, oh, she doesn't think I'm competent and capable enough to provide. And now she's saying, you know, do this or I'm out. And he's totally misunderstanding. Say, I can't do that. And it feels like this massive threat. And he's like, I'll have to, I'll have to leave because I can't do that where that's not what you're saying.

Rachel Denning (43:07.661)
Right? But he's going to feel super sensitive and because of his past, even extra hypersensitive about it. Right. And so back to this idea, if when we have conversations with our spouse that are challenging and difficult, I at this point now, I'll literally say, okay, wait a second. Are we talking about this? Like the actual strategies of how to track the finances? Or are we actually talking about your fear that I'm going to do this? Or are we talking about?

your insecurities about this. And we can start to separate out in the conversation what we're addressing and then kind of isolate it too and say, you know what, wait a second, let's talk about this because I think, you know, we always talk about the underlying issues or the cause of the cause or the source of the issues. When you can get down to the cause, which sounds like it's his insecurities and his feelings of betrayal and all of that.

If you can get down to that and have that conversation and address it, it's going to be so much easier to figure out the rest. In fact, sometimes it even becomes a non -issue. When you resolve that thing, then the conversation you think you're having isn't really an issue anymore. I had a coaching client once and she said, we got into this fight about...

the grass and the curbing and the trees, you know, and I'm like, it's not really about that. It's not about the grass and it's not about where the curb goes. There's something else at the heart of all of that. And it's about control or it's about, you know, feeling heard or respected. And so you have to start saying, okay, wait a second. No, it's not about that. What it's really about is this. And you start having that conversation instead. And then it resolves it so that...

now that's not a problem. Or if it comes up, you're saying, well, wait a second, we resolved that thing. So, you know, now we can actually address this thing. So that's the first thought that comes to mind for me, and I think it's good for you too, is that there are layers here, and when we can address the right layer, it helps to, it's like fixing the problem upstream, and then everything downstream fixes itself, sort of. So I would,

Rachel Denning (45:30.637)
In a way, I would go to him and say, and kind of lay that out saying, hey, I think there's multiple layers here of issues. The one is this issue about, you know, how do we actually track the finance or who does what or who shows what or whatever. That's one thing. And for you, that might be a bigger problem. That might be, you know, more on your values hierarchy. But if you can help him resolve this other thing. Then it's way easier to have that conversation.

Because I think the conversation you're wanting to have with him about what you would like to have is a conversation that he's saying, I can't have that conversation because I feel that - It means this to me. Right. But if you address that thing, then suddenly it takes on, this thing takes on a new meaning for him because it gets resolved. Now, and of course it's never resolved instantly. You don't have the conversation and it's over and done and he never feels that way again. It has to be something that's worked through over time.

But it's so powerful when we have an understanding of what we're actually talking about. Instead of thinking we're talking about this and we're not, we're talking about this. So I hope that's helpful. My guess is like, here's, here's an example of that. My guess is now he knows it's important to you. Super important to you. My guess is he doesn't know why he doesn't understand the deep, like soul level security you get.

from transparency and tracking net worth and building your safety into the future. You're thinking about net worth and wealth and investing. You're going out here and he's sitting here saying, she's questioning my competency. I'm just guessing because it's big for me. Oh yeah, she's not trusting me. And that hurts so bad. You're like, hey, let's track our net worth. And that's where you're at for safety and security. And he's like, oh man.

she wants me to do something else, she doesn't trust me, she's questioning me, that hurts so deeply for men. Well, and you brought up another very important issue in communication with our spouse is because I have found this across the board that one of the reasons spouses don't communicate well is because they're using words that have different meanings and definitions, words or phrases. So I could say something like, track our net worth, which to me means this.

Rachel Denning (47:54.605)
And to him, tracker net worth means this. So you're saying the same thing you think, but you're really not because it has completely different meanings based on your past history and your future vision and all of that. In this context, I bet the word transparency has very different meanings for both of you.

I bet I'm guessing that's a big one. You're saying transparency and meaning this, he's hearing transparency and meaning something else. Right? By the way, side note. Yes. Say, and again, that's what Rachel's saying. Like get to the specific points. And I hope everybody's listening carefully here. Whatever your thing is with your spouse, get to the very specific points. Like why?

As I was hearing you articulate the conversation, I was like, good, good, good. And then his reaction caught me off guard. Like, whoa. So there's something there. Specifically, he brought up control. I thought you'd never control me. Whoa, there's something there that has to be addressed. What's, what is he? And what does control even mean? Why is he so hesitant to be?

Controlled there's something there that's frustrating or terrifying or something there that means different stuff, right? So in our marriage we agreed for complete and total transparency on everything. I literally have nothing, not even a shadow of anything. Rachel gets full exposure, right? And luckily I get full exposure.

Little innuendo joke there. I'd throw that in since we're married. But you guys, we have to have that. And we're like, we have nothing to hide. And so you have to walk through that journey of why you want that. And reassure him it's not because you don't trust him. It's not because you're questioning his competence. He has to know that. Well, and in another way that I have found,

Rachel Denning (50:11.757)
for me to be effective with helping my husband to understand my viewpoint on something is to try to understand his viewpoint about a certain topic and then be able to explain to him why his view on this thing is just like my view on this thing. For us, one of those big things was,

I think we've talked a lot about our own personal sex journey, and we've done plenty of podcast episodes about it. But when I learned to understand how important sex was to him, I was then able to communicate how important conversation was to me. And I was able to use this kind of metaphor and analogy of like, you know how you feel about this? That's how I feel about wanting to hear from you or wanting you to ask about my day or wanting you to talk to me or just listen to me.

So I was able to make it real for him in a way that he understood using the things he cared about and that were important to him, not in a manipulative way, but in a vulnerable, open way and saying, you know what?

I would even share with him like, I can't be sexual with you or I can't be open with you. I can't get naked with you or whatever. Vulnerability is represented by nakedness. If you're not willing to be vulnerable with me, if you're not willing to be open with me, and that means this for me, right? So I make it a very real connection of he wants this and I want that and it's the same.

at least in the values as far as what's important to us, right? It's the same importance. So this is important to me and it's important to you. Here's how it looks from my perspective, right? If that makes sense. Well, and you even said that, that your intimacy is tied to your security, which is tied to finances. So and it seems strange to make those connections to say like, hey, babe, I have a hard time being intimate with you because...

Rachel Denning (52:22.701)
you're not open about the finances, but if you really feel that way, that's transparency, and that's where it begins, right? And again, it can't be done with manipulation of like, I'm not gonna have sex with you unless you are open with the finances. That doesn't work, but if you can vulnerably, that's a tough word, share why it feels more frightening to you.

Right? And I truly believe there is like even a biological connection there. Absolutely. Women are the reproducers of society, right? We reproduce, we perpetuate society. And in order to feel safe enough on a biological level to reproduce, we have to have certain things in place. We have to have safety and security. We have to be provided for.

because there's a period of time, especially when we're bearing children, when we can't provide for ourselves and we need to be supported. And so of course, you know, you may or may not be having children, but the point is on a biological level, that's kind of built into us. And so we need that safety and security in order to feel like I'm safe, my family is safe, I can do the work I need to do to raise my family because I am safe. And in today's society,

that is connected to money, right? So it is all interconnected and it is often very, you know, much bigger than we think it is. And when we can learn to talk about it in those types of ways, I like to call archetypal, it actually does make a difference in helping us to truly understand why it's so important. So just a second. Okay, as you were talking,

Literally, I was just like, oh, let me meet with him. Let me meet with him. Let me talk to him. Because this is what I do to do every day. And I'm just sharing this for everybody in this context. Whenever there's every one of us has a story. And when we can address elements of the story, like there's a healing that takes place. And a lot of the sensitivities or the problems become a non -issue. So.

Rachel Denning (54:41.581)
If I could talk to him or somebody could talk to him or there's a book or something where he can release some of the past pain. And I mean, that's extreme pain. What happened before he met you? That's extreme pain. But if he can heal from that, then this issue here just goes away because it was tied to this pain he still has. Like he's got a thorn over here. And when you say, hey, can I see the finances? It feels like you just smacked the thorn.

And he's like, oh, how could you do that to me? It's horrible. Which is why it's such an extreme reaction. Exactly. So the reaction is like, that killed. And you're like, I wasn't even talking about that. But you're like, yeah, but you touched the thing. So we have to get that healing, right? And then walk through these frameworks and mindsets about money. And again, this is like how you can help subtly or I don't know. Like I.

the coaching and I don't know where it ends up, but getting him help, like if I were to meet with them, and I'm just walking through this, you guys, it's principle. If I were to meet with them, right, we would walk through resolving past painful issues and setting up a new mindset about money where I'm like, look, I'm just gonna crush it. I'm just gonna absolutely crush it in abundance. I'm gonna just provide so well and be a phenomenal businessman and do whatever I do. And I'm...

There's going to be enough money for all the things you want, all the things the kid want, all of our security, safety, whatever. Like, I'm just going to dominate here and I don't have to worry about anything. Like, here's all the bank accounts. Here's all the money. And I'm hitting it, right? It's a mindset and skill set that's so powerful. And I think every single husband needs and many of the wives need. Which again, though, is the level things because there's the one conversation about the healing and then there's the other conversation about

the money mindset. So again, we're just throwing it out there because with basically every issue we're facing, there are going to be these multiple layers of analysis or levels of issues that we have to, and the powerful point I want to drive home is when we can recognize that, it's so helpful with communication because you're able to say, oh, wait a second, we're not talking about this or at least,

Rachel Denning (57:08.173)
Talking about this isn't gonna solve the problem. We have to go deeper and talk about this. Now, the challenge is not everyone wants to go deeper. Right? But that's where the real power lies. Highly recommend for everybody to read The Untethered Soul. Everybody should read that. So read it, have your husband read it. It's just a great book for healing whatever it is.

He walks you through so well how to find your pain points, your wounds, and to start working through them and healing. And it doesn't matter what the wound is, that kind of book will help process that to make this entire journey easier. It's The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer. Yeah, and I'm really glad that you brought up that point because it is very true because after everything that we've said about all of the levels and everything, where you start is actually

with where you are, right? And where you are is with where you are. And so you have to start there. And the connection point is huge, it really is, because many people, and especially men, I think, especially husbands, don't want, it's just their natural inclination to not go deeper. They don't want to go deeper. But when we build those connections with them, like you're talking about, that's when they're going to be willing to go deeper. And when we work on, you know, he,

like you said, healing our own wounds and giving them a space to not, you're not trying to force them to do that, but you're like, you know what, I'm here to give you space to support you in that and acknowledging that it is a thing and like you're here for them when they are ready to do that without forcing them to do that. And I also wanted to recommend a book for that specific process of connecting.

It's called the empowered wife. I think someone in the group shared it with me actually, and I read it and it's amazing. So that's what came to my mind is the empowered wife. It's super powerful. I think it's like the six intimacy secrets is the tagline and it specifically has just ways of connecting effectively with your husband in a way that, you know, works for them. So that's, that's, I really recommend it.

Rachel Denning (59:26.029)
Well, it's just so funny that you mentioned that because in the book, The Empowered Wife, she actually, she is very anti counseling. As am I. She said, counseling usually makes marriages, no, just that in that book, she really emphasizes that counseling usually actually makes marriages worse. So she, well, we are too, but she's very anti counseling. Yeah, you had something? I want to hit something. So you said that you need, you need to have that and it's a standard.

And I want to encourage you to keep that. Make sure you guys, when you have high standards and it's really important to you, don't back away from. Just figure out how to draw your spouse to it. Don't force it. You don't have to have the hard ultimatums. Just figure out like, well, what I said didn't quite work. I'm going to say it a different way. OK, that didn't land enough either. I'm just going to keep trying every approach I can.

until he finally one day goes, oh, now I know why it means so much to you, even though it doesn't mean that much to me. Well, and at the same time, I think you can move forward having separate conversations. It's OK for you to keep saying, well, yeah, this is really important to me. And let me try and explain why so you can understand. But it doesn't mean.

here, this conversation here, that I want to control you, that I want to, that I don't trust you, that I don't think, whatever it is, like you've got to figure out what he's thinking and feeling when he's having these reactions and say, yeah, this is important, but it doesn't mean this. So that you can be able to separate those conversations and keep having them moving forward and saying, well, wait, when I say this, does that mean this? Are you thinking this? And so you're just making sure to kind of essentially separating it.

so that you both recognize there's two different things going on here and they don't necessarily cancel each other out or whatnot. Sorry, I can't hear you. It's so good though. And the principles here are for all of us. I gotta say one more thing. Betrayal and rejection from someone we love deeply is one of the most painful things any human can experience. And subconsciously and sometimes consciously, the first thing we do is think,

Rachel Denning (01:01:49.741)
Well, it must have been me. I wasn't enough. So in the vast majority of cases, if somebody was cheated on or rejected or abandoned, betrayed, betrayed any of those things, you feel like there was something wrong with me. I wasn't enough. So then there's a deep underlying fear that if they start questioning my competency, if they in any way, shape or form question whether I'm enough,

I might end up abandoned again. And from the tiny bits and pieces I got, he's going to be sensitive to you questioning his competence, which is indicative by the first thing he said, we can do that. We can do that right now. I could buy that right now. He's going to be like, no, I'm not incompetent. I can do this, right? He's protecting that. So the assurance he has to have from you constantly, I'm not questioning your competence.

That's going to be huge, right? Cause he's going to feel like, Oh, okay. I don't have to be defensive and I don't have to hide things. I can be open and transparent because she's not questioning whether I'm enough. And, and potentially based off of that and his reaction, his reaction may have been one of fear of I'm being rejected again. So I need to take steps here, you know? And so,

We sometimes think that our spouse is doing something on the offensive when really it may just be on the defensive. Okay, we do have a lot more great comments. Thank you. Yes, you're very welcome. Thank you. Let's go through them quickly here. Okay, we started our marriage and family with amazing love, connection and fun. We've gone full circle arriving upon the very situation described in the first.

Homekeeping question and it now seems that we're emerging out of the other side of that. I pursued personal growth seven years ago as a mother regarding hearts and communication, which then equipped me for this marriage values issue years later. I learned another layer of marriage connection learning this past year and I'm simply oh so grateful for all the learning lived and that we can now pass it on to our generations. Yes, that's beautiful. That's what it's all about. Okay, that's good. We'll come back to that.

Rachel Denning (01:04:15.245)
Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable. You're going to make it and God is watching over you and your family I'll be praying for you and you can reach out to me anytime if you need a friend or encouragement. Thank you. That's beautiful and phone numbers there God just before I forget Maybe maybe encourage your husband to listen to my podcast to be the man podcast or the first that's one way to always start the first hundred and seventy episodes of the extraordinary family live podcast were just me and and there's a lot of story or

I have an entry level course called the Be the Family Man course. Sometimes it's even better to start with something simple and easy like sharing a reel on Instagram or a little YouTube video. You got to start where they are and that's often in a shorter format sometimes. In our family, we're just in the habit of sharing things. So we'll record.

We'll screen record a clip from a podcast or we'll send a reel or whatever. Like we're constantly sharing things. So then when we share something with our spouse, it's inspirational or whatever. It doesn't seem weird. Like, oh, what are you trying to do? Change me or something? No, like just start sharing things with them. Just funny things and cool things and inspirational things. Like just share things. And that's a way to start sharing inspirational things too. And if painful things come up, you guys.

you can use it as a resource to say, hey, well, we could get some coaching. We could get some coaching for this. Yeah, not counseling. So we could get some coaching for this. We could, I mean, we could reach out to somebody and just meet with them or we could listen to something on a podcast or read a book together. We just just look for resources. So it's like, let's not just stay stuck in this same pattern. Let's see how we can we can move through this together. Okay.

The heart and communication lessons I first learned as a young mother, specifically topical versus relational communication, I later practiced in our marriage and we're now discussing with the children ages 18 to five years. It's this concept of what relational messages we inadvertently send and receive while we're all discussing topics. Yeah, exactly. That's kind of like the later thing we're talking about. My revolutionary heart communication revelation began with the book Two Fleas and No Dog.

Rachel Denning (01:06:38.189)
Presently reading it with our kids, we began with the chapter on miscommunication. It addresses the communication presented in both questions today. The book topic is marriage. The miscommunication chapter in transparency slash intimacy is more and more as applicable to all or most relationships. I'm part of a global ministry family who's trained to ask God for the beginnings and answers to heal those heart ones. Greg and Rachel or whoever else, I can share more information with Greg and Rachel if you wish to know.

Fantastic. Yeah. I think, let's see, for tonight, I'm going to answer this other question right here though, and then I think we'll be done for tonight. Okay, so we're going to switch topics for a second. Okay, my son just went to Morocco with you. And it was amazing. It was amazing. Can you speak more to continuing on the motivation and excitement he felt on the trip? What are some ways that the mother...

should best educate her teen son since dad is at work all day. How much freedom do they need, et cetera? First of all, I want to warn you, because it happens to our children too, that after every trip, there is something known as after trip depression. It's real. Okay? I call it the post -adventure blues. Yes. We all experience after something amazing, afterwards you're like, bleh. So first of all,

know that that's coming and don't be shocked by it. And in fact, don't. Don't react to it. Have some sympathy maybe and be like, oh yeah, I know. I was literally with my, I call it vacation hangover. I was literally with my daughter today. She's like, I'm so sad. I'm like, yeah, cause the trip's over now, right? And so you just have to respect that. It's a natural, normal thing. And we don't have to be like.

You're so ungrateful. What's your problem? You should be happy for the next two years because of that trip, you know, that doesn't work. It's not true. It's just normal biology. That's all it is. When you have huge hits of dopamine, which is what happens on a trip, there's a natural decline afterwards. And so it feels sad or depressing, even though you may not be, you know, lower than normal. You might just be going back to normal and that feels sad, right?

Rachel Denning (01:09:03.053)
So that's one thing to recognize that that's just a part of it. And that's, that's okay. As far as continuing the motivation. Motivation is like food. Yeah. You know, if you just eat on Sunday and you're like, Hey, I'm good. I'm good for the rest of the week by Wednesday, you're going to feel miserable. Motivation is just like food. You have to keep feeding the motivation. And most of us just aren't very good at it. We don't prioritize it. So you have to keep the motivation going with.

with books, with adventures, with connections, with cool people, with the next thing on the calendar. I still operate like this. I'm 45 years old. I've done, I've lived an absolute, I've lived multiple lifetimes already. And still, my calendar, if you guys are looking at my calendar, I've got things lined out that keep me motivated and going and excited.

I'm looking forward to more things. We're still looking for the next trip. That's what we're excited about, right? Because it makes life more exciting. Now the challenge, just like with eating, you cannot feed someone motivation. They have to eat themselves. But what you can do is you can first feed yourself because if you're not fed on motivation or food, you're not very pleasant to be around either, right? We get...

It's a real thing and it causes problems. The same is true with motivation. If we are feeding ourselves motivation and being motivated and motivating, we can't expect our kids to be motivated or motivating. So we have to feed ourselves and then just like feeding your kids, you can't make them eat per se. I mean, maybe when they're small, but you know, teenager, you can't make them eat, but you can prepare meals for them.

And so for me, I prepare opportunities for motivation. Now, one of my favorite things to do, in fact, we used it on the trip because it works for adults and children, is I prepare a meal and during the meal, we do what we call the devo or devotional. We do a devo. And that's how we inject regular motivation into our family is because we have the food, they come for the food, and then we do the devo while they're there.

Rachel Denning (01:11:24.909)
And it works like a charm, we do it all the time. And so even on this trip, we gathered everyone together, we said, we're having breakfast everybody at this place. But the real reason was we wanted to do a devotional. But if you're like, guys, we're gonna do a devotional at this. Everybody's like, I don't wanna go for a devotional. But if you go for food, they wanna go for the food. So we will prepare meals and prepare motivation to share during the meals. Now this isn't a lecture because that's not.

Motivating. This is actual motivation, which is why you have to feed yourself because then when you show up, you're actually motivated and excited about things and you get to talk about it and you sound exciting and when you sound exciting, that sounds exciting. They get excited when you're excited. So you have to actually get excited about something in life. Or else you're never going to motivate them because they're just going to be like, Mom, you just sound so bored and depressed. Like. Why? That's.

That's one of the things that every one of us has to ask ourselves, like, am I boring?

And honestly, that might be a hard look in the mirror. Am I boring? Is my life boring? And we have to do that. Everyone has to do that because if you're boring or your life is boring, I promise your kids are going to be like, ugh. Your kids cannot be more generally, there are exceptions, are generally not going to be more exciting and motivated than their parents.

So if you want your kids to be more excited and motivated about life in general, you have to be more excited and motivated about life. Now, one of the specific questions, we can talk more about this later because it's such a good topic. One specific question was how much freedom, right? And freedom is earned and boys, holy guacamole, boys need freedom. Boys need freedom and they need to be able to break things and to build things and break them, get dirty and have adventures. Boys need adventures.

Rachel Denning (01:13:27.917)
Especially if dad's gone, it's challenging for moms because we're just built different. Because moms respond differently to boys than dads. We had this awesome conversation on the trip because the boys wanted to try some dangerous things and the moms were really quite concerned about it. It was pretty cute. I was like, well, let's walk through it. And dad was like, yeah, go for it. Mom's like, I don't know about this. And it was just this beautiful little thing right there. And moms, for the most part,

what your boys want to do is going to be just beyond your comfort zone. And that's why we have dads, right? They're like, yeah, go for it, son. Just don't bring anything. Because that is what boys need, actually. They need the adventure and they need freedom. But freedom is earned, ladies and gentlemen. Freedom is earned. And kids get more freedom as they make good choices, right? The more responsible they are, the more freedom they have. So it's not like, yeah, go for it. You have total freedom because you made horrible choices last time I gave you freedom. It's not that at all.

It's like when you make great choices, when you have responsibility, you get more and more freedom. And so as long as they continue to make good choices, they get more and more freedom. You just keep letting out the line until eventually they have total freedom. Well, and when they do make poor choices, then you pull that line back in. But you have to explain why. I gave you a chance to use your device unrestricted, and as a result, you spend 11 hours on Minecraft. So.

The consequence is you now have no device access for the next determined amount of time. But when you do get it back, you will have another chance to prove to me that you can make good choices on your device. That's one example of how freedom is earned. Hold back if poor choices are made, but then give it another chance, right? They have to try again. So it's kind of that process, as far as how much freedom, it's kind of that process over and over again with.

whatever area of life that they are currently operating in.

Rachel Denning (01:15:29.005)
Yeah, we should. We'll go. We'll do that. That's so good. That's so, so good. More next time because the what are some ways we should best educate our team. We can definitely talk more about that. Okay. Yes, thank you. Great, great important topics today. Huge things. I hope you take some notes and some mental notes and some things in the heart and soul and there's these beautiful things we can work on in our marriages with our kids and ourselves. Just getting to a beautiful.

healthy whole place where we can just kind of radiate out love and healing and make space and wherever there's conflict and misaligned values, we can start seeing each other better and start moving in that direction. And it's literally transformational. It changes everything. But we have to be deliberate about getting to those very specific issues and addressing those things. So thanks for being here, guys.

Love you, have a wonderful, happy new year again. Have a wonderful week. Love you guys. Reach upward.