Get answers to your questions about marriage, parenting and family life from experts and parents of 7 children!

Rachel Denning (00:10.318)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. Rachel and I are on our first getaway of the year. Yeah. Starting it off strong. Day number 15. Yep. Of the year. Getting some time away and celebrating my birthday, which just happened and I love, I love like.

beginnings and endings and love birthdays because it's a chance to do deep reflection. I just take a good solid look at every aspect of my life and say how am I doing? What worked? What didn't work? What needs improvement? What needs attention? Let's be better human beings. How can I be better? So I love that. That's what we're doing. So we're on a little getaway. So we've got some quiet time and space.

And we love doing this podcast and sharing it. So you guys, thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for listening and for being a part of our audience and our tribe and our community. It's hard to emphasize enough how important it is to have a community of people who are striving to be their best selves because that's what makes the world a better place. And with all the madness going on in the world and getting worse and we're coming up on a time, you know, maybe the next five.

probably the next five years, some absolutely insane things are gonna happen on our planet. And we need strong families. Absolutely have strong individuals and strong families. So thank you. Well, I think that ultimately that's actually the work that matters most. I think that's why we do this podcast and keep talking about these things and do the coaching and everything we do, because we truly believe that that's the most important work that needs to be done. It's what happens within your own family.

it's going to make the biggest difference for the world. And we, man, we need it. We need it so, so desperately already. We, the planet. We, humanity. And what's interesting is even if you're living in a place that's pretty, pretty safe still, pretty comfortable, you don't...

Rachel Denning (02:27.341)
You can wake up every day and same our life's amazing. We wake up every day and we don't feel threatened, right? We don't feel like oh, I just lost some freedom But we see the writing on the wall so to speak we see the the signs of the coming storm and so We are preparing as a family and we're trying to share this message Like we have to be ready for what's coming just like every big

crisis or catastrophe, there were signs, plenty of signs leading up to it in a few years in advance of it. The last major, major crisis was World War II. And if you were to go back and study what was happening in Europe in the 30s, there'd be big indications of what eventually would happen at the end. I think it was 39 when it started, right? I'm not mistaken on the year. So if you study 33 to 39, you're like, oh yeah.

Why didn't they see this coming? And there's a lot of actually, actually a lot of similarities to what's happening now. You pay attention if you study the history and then you study the current events, you're like, whoa, there's a lot of parallels here. This is crazy. There's something coming. Yeah. And so it's, it's definitely the work that we are doing with our, with ourselves primarily, cause we always want to focus on making the most of ourselves.

and then in our marriages and then with our children, that is hands down the most important work we can do. But something you mentioned on it, it's not like we, you know, we wake up every day feeling threatened or like our lives are in danger. And yet in a lot of ways, I think threats are all around us and we just aren't aware of them or don't perceive them as a threat. At least yet. Yeah. But like in, especially in our family, I guess we are noticing things that

don't necessarily look like threats from the outset, but are actually threats. And it is something we're talking about and being proactive about with our families because, you know, with technology and movies and media and social media and all of these other inlets into our homes, so to say, like, yeah, we can be totally safe. At least we can feel physically safe. And yet there's an attack. I think right now the most serious attack is on like our minds.

Rachel Denning (04:54.477)
our ideas, what we think about, what we believe, that's where the danger lies right now. There are ideas out there that are being sold or promoted as the right thing, the healthy, good thing to do in society. And yet if you study history and you study different topics, including communism, Marxism, you know, blah, blah, totalitarianism, all of that.

you see, wait, actually some of these ideas are very, very dangerous. And if you play them out five, 10 years down the road, that's not a good outcome. But for many of us who are, I include myself, undereducated, we just think, eh. It's just a weird time. What's the big deal? Yeah. Why not? You know, it's okay to be open -minded. And while that has some truth to it, if you're too open -minded, your brain falls out.

Your brain falls out as you love to say and society collapses. Literally that's what happens. And that is the road we're on. And we're not the first or only ones to say this. Like we're just paying attention to what's happening around us. And that's very fitting with what we're gonna talk about today. Well, absolutely. I think it is. It's directly connect in my mind, especially for our family, especially it's directly connected to what we're talking about today because that is, we didn't necessarily realize that or.

could articulate that when we started homeschooling, but it is one of the underlying reasons we homeschool. And that contrast is also important. How we started homeschooling versus now what we're doing for education is very, very different. Absolutely. Our own education has evolved our strategies and even the resources that are now available. Oh, it's so much easier now than when we started 20 years ago. Goodness.

Even the general, even then it was easier than it had been. Right. Or that. And the general perception of home education or alternative education that is one frowned upon. That's good. That's a positive benefit that came from COVID and quarantine is that suddenly people rethought what homeschooling meant or could be exactly. And now not even so much homeschooling as we call it kind of homesourcing. We just source tons of resources and.

Rachel Denning (07:21.069)
And other, you know, the best thinkers. We're outsourcing schooling from home, basically. And what's, what's awesome now, it was already happening, but the, you know, sending everybody home for COVID even exacerbated it more, really sent it forward and gave it like a quantum leap because all the best thinkers and leaders and teachers and mentors put all their stuff online. Yeah. So now I'm not confined by my geographic limitations.

Like I don't have to. Your zip code determines which school your kids go to. Exactly. I live right here. So within a 20, 20, 30 mile radius, this is what I get for a music instruction for, um, all the core academic instruction, all that stuff like, Oh, this is the limiting factor. Now you literally can have your kids get on and take a course from the most brilliant physicist on the planet. Right.

which I think we'll talk more about this later, but for one example, our kids love taking classes from masterclass .com. They're literally taking classes from the masters. One of which is Neil deGrasse Tyson, who is one of the best physicists on the planet. So you're right. And the kids love it. Oh, they absolutely love it. And well, the other thing I thought of when you said that, because we've talked about it before in previous podcasts about and coaching about wealth, that one of the major determining factors,

regarding the income you earn is your zip code. And you think, well, wait, how does that work? Well, it just means that whatever zip code you're in, that determines your socioeconomic status. And you're just likely to continue in that status for the rest of your life. So your zip code determines your wealth, your level of wealth. I would, I would.

Conjecture to say it probably also determines the outcome of your child's education absolutely, and I think that's correlated absolutely directly connected I think so there's all these indicators of What's happening in life and? What we can do about it and education is the absolute core piece of that Just to introduce the topic. I mean, you know the topic

Rachel Denning (09:46.381)
but like essentially we were asked a question and we've been asked before. You, Greg, love to say, at least now, you didn't always believe this, that every family should homeschool. And so people have asked us. I'll come back to this. I still have a disclaimer on that, but go ahead. Yeah, and I would agree. There's definitely a disclaimer on that. And maybe what you mean, I'm gonna guess here, is every family that's listening to our podcast or in our coaching.

should homeschool, right? Because that's a certain demographic. That's a certain type of person. Right, because there's a lot of people who should definitely not homeschool. And those are probably the same people I would say they shouldn't have children. Right. But they're not the ones necessarily listening to our podcast. But unfortunately, they probably already have children and they need help. Right. But I'm going to say if you are remotely intelligent and have somewhat of self -discipline and self -control, you're not

psychotic, you have a decent mental, emotional health and a good balance. And if you know how to learn and how to find resources, then absolutely you should educate your kids. You should be homeschooling, home sourcing. Home sourcing because you're going to be able to put together a far, far better educational package for your kids than is being offered even at the best.

public schools and we'll get into that in a minute. So yeah, we're definitely going to talk about that, but essentially the question we have been asked specifically in our coaching is, well, what do you mean by that? Especially because I have my kids in school. It's a good school. They don't seem to be, you know, getting into trouble or bad kids or having problems because of it. Do you really think I still should be homeschooling? Right. Especially if...

we're both working or this or that, like, you know, all of the contingencies that are out there. And there's a lot of you listening and there's a lot of good people out there that, you know, are good, good parents, good people, have good kids, and they're in quote, good schools. And so you might live, let's say, here's what I want to do today. Some of you, let's say that you live in a good affluent community and you have a quote, good school district or a good school.

Rachel Denning (12:08.557)
I want to go with that scenario because a lot of people are like, oh yeah, we live in a bad area, crap school, there's all kinds of horrible things happening there. Then it's kind of more of a no -brainer, like get your kids out of there. Well, especially in some scenarios we've heard where there have been school shootings or school threats of school shootings and parents are like, yeah, I'm going to homeschool my kid. That's an obvious one, right?

Violence in the middle schools and high school or bullying or whatever. So obviously there's plenty of parents who come to homeschooling because of Situations like that in this case. We were asked a question by someone who's not experienced any of that and they're still wondering Should I still be thinking about like what why are you saying? I should still be thinking about they're asking why I Would be so bold to say hey You should really bring your kids out of school and offer them education at home but I'm still thinking of these scenarios where I

in very, very Christian communities, pretty affluent. There's a large handful of kids showing up believing that they are, what do they call them, furries? They believe they're animals. Well, you're jumping right into the deep end here, one of the reasons. Well, right, because you're in a good area with a

good people and good Christian community in a good school. And yet they're like, oh yeah, you know, there's, there's like, you know, X number of furries in our school and they're allowed. Well, this is literal. Like we've talked to, we have, we have conversations with people like this. So they, you know, they have dress codes, except for the furries. The furries can literally come and dress like animals and act like animals and nobody can say anything about it. And then the teachers or admin and nobody can make fun of them. And like, are you kidding me?

And then they're allowing this kind of stuff and promoting it. And they're promoting this idea of depression and anxiety and all this stuff that it's totally normal and all the gender confusion and all kinds of stuff that if we would just step back, either time or space, because...

Rachel Denning (14:32.109)
Rachel and I travel extensively, obviously, and we've just been in multiple countries. And the thought on most of this planet, the vast majority of this planet, the thought of somebody believing they're an animal or a gender transformation would just be so absurd, it would be laughable. Well, it is laughable to many people in developing countries, the developing world, especially. And you might say they laugh at it. Because they're underdeveloped.

No, they're not. They've got a lot put together. They're uneducated and ignorant. And that's not the case either. They're just grounded in real common sense and what life means. And if you would go back a century or two, same thing across the board. They're just prejudiced, Greg, and undereducated. Right, and that's part of the message that's being promoted is like it's reversed racism, it's sexism, it's...

it's being pushed in the name of tolerance and patience and understanding and acceptance where those things are no longer a virtue when they, when, when things turn weird and beyond what's normal and natural and healthy. And again, as soon as I say those words, Oh, what's normal and what's natural and Oh, you're just, you're just the privilege white male. Exactly. So I get thrown on the bus. Cause I,

For some reason I happen to be born white and a male. So I mean, I'm kind of nervous that you're starting with this right out the gates because I, you know, we've got a lot of great points here. I want to cover those first before people shut this off and say, you don't even know what you're talking about, Greg. So you're right. Okay. It's back way up. I jumped in the deep end too quickly because there's a lot of other really important elements first. So if you're, you're tempted to turn it off, just, just hold it out. We got to, we made a whole list here, all these bullet points. And I want to back.

Actually, let me do this right now. I want to back way up. I am in no way, shape or form saying that homeschool is the magic pill that if you bring your kids home, then everything will work out. They'll get a great education. They'll be awesome kids. They'll, yep. Everything will be fine. They'll never do drugs. They'll never be criminals or whatever, and they'll just be wonderful and have good social skills and happy marriages. I am not saying that at all. No way. Home education or home sourcing or world schooling is just another vehicle.

Rachel Denning (17:00.301)
It's just another tool, but if you don't know how to use the tool or if you don't use it, if you take that good vehicle and drive it off a cliff, it'll fail epically. Right. And that's true with any vehicle. Now can good people come through the public school system or what? Actually, let's be honest. We have to be more responsible with our words. It is government school. It's run by the government. So the best teachers, the

best administrators with the best intent, they are still dictated to by the government. So what we call public schools are actually government schools. It's run by the government. And I don't know if you're looking around, our government is an absolute mess. It's a joke. Anything run by the government is a complete and utter embarrassment. Not in my district, Greg. You don't know my government leaders. It's still led by federal.

and then state and then local government. Okay. And tying into what you were just saying there, I think ultimately with this approach that we have, we're not saying potentially for your family that government school or private school are not good options. In fact, we would say they are good options. But what we're trying to do is like we always do, like that's the whole point of our podcast, The Extraordinary Family Life. We're trying to hold up a different standard.

We're trying to hold up a higher vision and in fact, an extraordinary vision. So in some ways, what we're saying is, hey, you're listening to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast and you want to create an extraordinary family. One of the things that's likely going to require is homeschooling. And here's why, point of this podcast. Exactly. It's homesourcing, whatever you want to call it. We're just going to call it alternative education because you're right. And well, and I hear this all the time, like I went to public school and I turned out okay.

I hear that all the time. We're going for more than okay. We're going for better than okay. We turned out okay too. We went to home. We went to public school but and okay was grossly not enough. It was not sufficient. Like what we learned on pub in public school. Yes, it provided a foundation but in order to create the extraordinary life we have we had to home source our own education. You and I. We had to educate ourselves further.

Rachel Denning (19:25.677)
so that we had the tools necessary to create the extraordinary life that we have. And for both of us, there was a lot of healing that had to take place. And we'll get into that later because of the, yes, the wounding that happens in the government school setting. It is horrendous and children should not be exposed to that. Right. So, oh.

Well, things we had to unlearn. There's tons of things. Well, right. I was gonna say there's all kinds of garbage. Let's go through our list. I want to say this. I don't forget though. You guys don't I'm not throwing every teacher administrator under the bus. I worked in public school. I worked in private school. I know a lot of five or six years genuinely good people who are teachers or administrators. They want what's best.

And they're doing their best and they're doing their best. They're good teachers. They really are. Their hands are tied. Their hands are tied. And so what we are addressing is the vehicle as a whole. Now we'll get into it on some, some particulars, but well, let me tell you a story. I was working, uh, teaching at a public high school and I went into the faculty room.

And there was a large number of teachers in there. And on a regular basis, they were just whining and complaining and cursing and condemned. They just hated their jobs. They hated the youth they were teaching and they could not wait for Friday and for summer and for retirement.

Those were just the regular conversation. Now, I don't know about you, but there's no way in the world I would want my children being taught by someone who hates youth, hates what's happening, hates their job, hates their life. Hates the subject. Hates the subject. Just literally can't wait until the school day's over, can't wait until the week's over, can't wait until the school year's over, can't wait until retirement. That's what they live for. And I understand this, and I think you understand it.

Rachel Denning (21:46.797)
because a lot of people live that way. They just, they're doing a job. They just pick the career. They just pick something because they're like, well, I need a job. I need something to pay the bill. So I'll just do this. That's not an extraordinary way to live. And that's our point. A sad way to live. In fact, that's one of the emphasis is here. Emphasis is here. I love that word. I self -educate myself. That's one of the things we're trying to emphasize here is that.

to get the extraordinary level, you have to take extraordinary steps. And you have to learn from extraordinary people, that people that have passion and interest and care about what they're doing, because all of that is transmitted, and not only in the subject that's being taught, but in an overall approach to life. So think about that as one basis of the approach. Do you wanna send your kids to an environment where they're surrounded by people who basically hate being there?

and aren't living with passion and joy and excitement for life? Or do you want to expose your children to those who are living at higher levels and who are actually excited and passionate about living? That's one major difference that we're talking about. So I think point number one could be from a book by Parker Palmer called The Courage to Teach. I have a different point number one. I know, I know. Okay, I'm just I'm going to kind of put together. Ultimately, you guys, if you're still listening.

And we love you if you're still listening. If you made it this far and you're like those stupid dennings. If you've made it this far and you're still listening, thank you. Ultimately, you guys, we're not saying what, well, we're trying not to. I do it all the time. We're trying. I am trying not to say, Hey, this is what you should do. What I'm ultimately saying is like, this is why we do it. This is why we have never sent our kids to school and we never will.

So the whole argument, if you'll forgive my ranting when I get into it, I'm not saying, hey, you should do this. I'm saying, this is why we've done it. And we're trying to share our thoughts and our philosophy and our understanding here so you know why. The standard number one is - Well, and a caveat with that is that also we do understand that there may be, there's of course gonna be exceptions to this. You might live in the perfect location, the perfect district with the perfect teachers that are just right and exactly what your kid needs, or at least one of your kid's needs. And that's great, that's perfect.

Rachel Denning (24:07.309)
Now there's no such thing. Okay, perfect. It's a strong word.

the right thing for that child at that time. Type of group. Or you have no better option. That's my. And sometimes that's the case. Like you have to understand that there are variables anyways, though. But I have to go with the courage to teach. Parker Palmer says there's it is absolutely impossible to not teach what you are. So every single teacher, every single mentor, every single tutor, every coach.

every administrator, everyone your child interacts with is teaching, no matter the subject, they're teaching what they are. Or who they are. Or who they are. So if they are unpleasant, if they're miserable, if they're unhappy, if they're addicts, if they're perverts, if they're cynics and critics, if they're just pessimists, if they're extremists. Fetalists. Yeah, exactly. If they're nihilists.

then that's going to come across no matter their subject. It doesn't matter if it's chemistry or math or art. If they're nihilists or fascists or put in your thing, communists, if they're sexual perverts, then it's going to come out in what they teach and how they teach. And so it's not just the subject. You're like, oh, we have a great math teacher, but that teacher happens to be an alcoholic.

or a porn addict, or living in relationship after relationship because they can't even stay in a relationship. That's going to come out. It can't not. And there's a couple things there. One of them, I think especially early on, that was one of the reasons why we did choose to homeschool because we had such high standards for ourselves and for what we wanted our children to learn that we thought,

Rachel Denning (26:08.173)
until I can find what I'm looking for, we may not, we're definitely not perfect, but we're the best option we've got, right? And then of course the other side of the argument is, well, there's nobody out there that's perfect. Everybody has their weaknesses. Even the masters on masterclass still have their problems. Yes, 100%, I totally agree with that. But I guess in some ways that's why I prefer that approach because,

They're still going to teach who they are in the master class, but that's a lot different than being surrounded by that person day after day, week after week, month after month, which is what's happening when they go to school and they are surrounded by their teachers and their peers, they're absorbing and picking up a whole lot more than they are when they're in your home environment and then being exposed to masters who teach them a subject and then from a distance.

And we can even eliminate, right? So let's say there's five or 10 masters out there we're looking at. You just start noticing, you're like, that person is a very foul person. Or that person, you just hear something, you just do a little bit of research and we're like, wow, they live a horrible life. Maybe it's criminal activity or maybe it's just literally disgusting. They're just disgusting humans. You're like, okay, that guy, he is world -class at marketing, but he's a disgusting human. I'm going to go find somebody else.

Who's world -class in marketing learning from me? Yeah, there's more options. You get to choose. There's more options. Yeah. Exactly. So if you have two people that are really, really good at their craft and one of them is a dirt bag, choose the other one. That's what we're talking about. Right. Well, that's one thing we're talking about. Okay. So that's one. You teach who you are, what you are. I wanted to mention Dumbing Us Down by John Goddall. Are we going to come up on that one? Yes. Let's go through our list. Rachel has a list here. We're going to go through the list. We made a list while we were driving, I think from...

Morocco to Portugal last week because our car broke down and then we were returning and we were talking about it. What I put on number one here is one of the reasons to homeschool, especially when you're trying to reach the extraordinary level, is that when you do research at all, and this is specifically related to the United States and I would say many Western, Westernized countries, you learn that

Rachel Denning (28:31.181)
many of the teachers who are teaching are actually very unqualified. And along with that, not only are they unqualified to teach the subject they're teaching, but they also suck at teaching. They're not even good at it. They're not even that good at teaching in general because you are a teacher and teaching is a skill. And so - Well, I studied pedagogy. Pedagogy is the art of teaching. I've studied it for over two decades.

I'm all over this and I am intense about it and the most teachers even with a teaching certification that's okay. So they go and get a degree but they often don't even. Let me give the background on this so people don't think we're just making this up. There's a book out there called the smartest kids in the world and it's written by I don't know can't remember man or woman the author who studied teachers in all different countries now.

At the time the book was written, the number one country in the world for education was Finland. And in Finland, for one thing, they don't even start school till they're seven. So they start much later. They don't even focus on academics. They focused on things like playing. Core values. Going out into the woods, like for school. You can be just a healthy, happy kid. And then...

Their teachers, well I think for all levels, even elementary school, go through the equivalent of a doctorate. Okay, think about that. The same amount of schooling required to become a doctor in the United States is what is required to become a teacher in Finland. They take their teaching seriously and they're well paid for it. And they're respected. And they are very much respected. Like there is no disrespect in the schools in Finland.

They respect the teachers. So, and then, so that's the one side of it. And then they talked about in the United States, like you can get any degree in anything.

Rachel Denning (30:37.997)
and become a teacher and not even have to know your subject. You can just jump on and they're like, hey, we need somebody to teach a subject and you don't have a real basis in it and they'll throw you in there because they need it. So you don't have to know your subject that well. And again, those of you who have a degree, I have a degree, those of you who have a degree, you realize how easy it is. It is so easy to get a degree in this country. It's too easy. And it's not even - Well, and that was -

That was part of the point made in the book. And in fact, I would hide, like, I can't even remember all the details, but I highly recommend reading it if you're wondering, because they were, they were just laying out clear facts, how dismally uneducated most of the teachers are in the United States. Like it's a embarrassment. It really is. It truly is. And, and that, and they emphasize that in the United States, especially sports.

Above everything else, you know in other schools it's about the academics and the sports is a side thing They're talking about in the US schools, especially Arts arts and music get cut and all of these programs get cut So that we can keep the sports program like we got to have our sports who cares about culture and education and you know all of this We got to have sports and so because of it It's just really lowered the level of the quality of the education that is happening

across the board in the United States. Like that's just, you know. And it's sad. So it's super, super easy to get a degree. And then there's a tiny bit of pedagogy. So they're like, hey, here's how you teach. And so they're not effective. Well, that was the other thing in Finland. Like they had to go through this lengthy period of time, I think one or two years, where they did student teaching. Yeah. Like you were practicing teaching.

you were observing other teachers teach and then you had to practice it yourself. Like it was a long period of time where they had to go through this whole thing to actually be good at teaching, which makes perfect sense. Made me want to move to Finland. I would put my kids in school there. So there's, there's another rock solid point right there that when ultimately you're outsourcing your, when you send them to school, you're, you're just what you're trying to do without.

Rachel Denning (33:01.709)
maybe consciously or unconsciously, you're trying to hand this off so you're not responsible for your kid's education, which is absolutely impossible. At the end of the day, you as a parent are 100 % responsible for your kid's education. If they get educated or not, it's on you, whether you send them to school or not. So then you're trying to outsource, so you're sending them off there and they're going and being exposed to how many teachers? Five, eight, a day or whatever. And you don't know them, you haven't interviewed them, you don't know their background, you're just trusting that the government has...

selected qualified people who a like we talked about are living good lives b have a really great understanding of their subject matter and c know how to effectively teach well not even to mention that they are passionate about their subject and care about it and really and care about children or youth yeah some do a lot don't or and if they did they just got sick of it and they just burn out and jaded well what killed me in the university i gotta show this point just absolutely killed me at university level

is they have these PhDs who were extremely knowledgeable in their subject and even passionate about a subject, but they could not teach if their life depended on it. They just, you don't have to be able to teach. If you have a doctorate, you can, you become a professor and you can teach a class. You, they couldn't teach the most eager student could the best student on the planet couldn't learn from those guys. They just,

They knew their subject matter, but they had zero skill and ability to teach. And so what's the point? Like, okay, you understand the subject matter, but you cannot convey it to another human being. That's two different things. Well, and then not even to bring in the fact, well, actually you did talk about it before, is that on top of all of that, in the government school system, the teacher's hands are tied when they want to do something different or even have a different learning style or a different learning approach or to...

we're not even getting into the fact that not all students learn the same or the very proven fact that boys do not learn the same as girls and that they need to move around. They need to be able to run and play and be rough and all of these things that they're not allowed to do in school. And so they end up getting medicated, you know, so that they can sit still and pay attention. That's a whole nother topic, right? Well, you know, let's, let's nail that one right now though.

Rachel Denning (35:28.717)
If nothing else, if everything else were good, but I was aware of the mass medication they're handing out to kids and calling them ADD or ADHD and saying they need to be drugged because they're active and their brain learns differently and they're rambunctious and they wiggle. If it was only that factor, I would never send my kids there. I mean, any

any institution that is drugging children and not allowing them to be children, right? I'm out. If that was the only factor, I'm out. And they're like, well, they're not giving it to my kids. Yeah. But the kind of people are handing out drugs like that to kids are from such a screwed up mentality, philosophy mindset. I don't ever want my kids anywhere near those. What do you, I didn't know what to call them. It's evil.

And they're not... Definitely not good. Well, that brings me to one of our point actually, because we just were listening to a podcast by Jordan B. Peterson, not even related to education, but he said the education system K through 12 and college is one of the most corrupt systems on the planet. That is a direct quote from one of the most brilliant men of our time, literally saying that the education system...

He's one of the most corrupt systems on the planet. And I agree. I agree. So there's another point. It is. It's a huge monster and it is corrupt all the way through. So it would be extremely naive of me to say, well, yeah, but our school is really good. It hasn't been tainted by the corruption. Our school isn't like the other schools. It's part of it. And yeah, maybe it.

Maybe it's varying degrees, but it's still part of the system that is extremely, extremely corrupt. Right. And this is definitely a good point to bring in the mention, what you mentioned before about the books written by former public school teachers, dumbing us down, must read, especially if you're going to send your kids to school, you need to know what's going on. Weapons of mass instruction.

Rachel Denning (37:55.437)
And just the fact that it used to not be so common knowledge. Now it's pretty much common knowledge. You can look this up. Schools were started to train factory workers. So they adopted the Prussian model, which was essentially trained to train like military. In the United States, they adopted it during the industrial age and it was.

specifically intended, I mean, and created by Rockefeller and all of them, to train workers so that they would have workers to work in the factory. Because one of the disadvantages or problems they were facing was that they needed at least basic literacy for people to be able to work in the factories. They needed factory workers because, you know, industrial age boom and all of these factories needed workers in them. But...

basic literacy is a problem. And so they wanted to put them through a system that would give them a basic education, but also train them to be able to work in the factories, which is why schools and factories have so many similarities. And in fact, there's this one black woman I follow on Instagram who loves to point out that schools and prisons are very much the same. Like they have the same, she will post these pictures all the time of like contrasting. Here's the school lunchroom, here's the prison lunchroom.

Here's the school bells, here's the prison bells, here's the school tests. It's really fascinating. But like it's this institutionalized approach to things of like we need to train non -thinking, order following people to do the jobs that have to be done. Now, another problem that we're obviously facing nowadays is that there aren't factories like there used to be before. And everybody knows,

of the student who got good grades, went to college, got their degree, and is unemployed or can't find a job. Like, that's just the most common story nowadays. And yet nobody's thinking, wait, maybe we're doing this wrong. We need a new approach, right? So we've got to start thinking differently about this. Right. And well, it's...

Rachel Denning (40:12.269)
It's a system designed to eliminate like total ignorance. So it works for that. Right. You don't want a civilization or society that's completely ignorant. You want to have everyone be somewhat literate. And even that's arguable. Like some high school kids, a large part of high school kids are getting out and they're just barely literate, which is just absurd. Well, I mean, in many ways, yeah, the schools, the government school system has done the job it was created to do. It's, it's,

It has accomplished that. And that's great in that in a way it has improved overall prosperity over time. And that's wonderful. But I guess back to our main point, we're now seeking for something higher than that. We want to go above the bare minimum. In a very real way, Rachel and I just sat down and said, if we choose to send our kids to school, what we're doing is we're embracing mediocrity. We're accepting a bare minimum standard. So if I'm going to send my kids to public government school.

I'm okay with just a bare minimum of education. And we haven't even got to like overall mental health and well -being. Even if you're sending your kids to quote unquote the best schools, I still feel like that's the outcome. It's maybe just slightly higher than mediocre. Okay, maybe now we switch a little bit to another aspect of it because...

you know, when people ask us or they talk to us and they're like, I've got good kids and they're in good schools and like they've got good outcomes. And we say, yeah, that is true. But as we think about it and we discuss it, I think there's one aspect of this that for us is a major point that is completely missing if you send your kids to public school simply because,

It's just not logistically possible. And that is, that thing is, it's so important to us, is that you will never, ever have the level of influence or...

Rachel Denning (42:19.501)
depth of relationship with your children that you want to have or hope to have, that's possible, I'm getting confused here, I'm like how to exactly word this, but it's not possible if you send them to public school versus having them at home simply because of the amount of hours you are spending with your children. Does that make sense? So essentially you can't have as deep.

or powerful influence with your kids because they're going away to school and spending hours and hours and hours away from you versus the amount of time they spend with you picking up on who you are as a person.

by being at home with you. Yeah. So if you could just even like see it in a pie chart of just hours with you versus hours away from you, it's, that's pretty crazy to think about. And if you add, and it starts at a young age, which just kills me. So sad little kids should not be away from their parents unless they're crazy. They should be with them. And again, that's the, that's the, that's the disclaimer there. You said, you know, you can't have influence in a great relationship unless they're home with you. But if you're crazy,

or if you're mean or you're unpleasant or you're controlling or you're name it like whatever, pick your thing. That's no guarantee for a good relationship or influence. Well, and that goes back to what you said before that, you know, just because we're promoting this doesn't mean it's the cure all pill. No way. And that's not what I'm saying either. Just because you have your kids home with you, that you're going to have more influence over them or they're going to have more respect for you or you're going to have deeper relationships with them. That's not the given.

just because they're at home. But if you are intentional, if you're striving to live that more extraordinary life, if you're constantly working on yourself, if you're educating yourself, if you're improving yourself and strengthening your relationships, if all of that is worked into the quote unquote homeschool that's going on, which in our case has been the case, then as a result, your children seeing all of that taking place,

Rachel Denning (44:35.117)
on a daily, weekly, monthly, yearly basis. It's the best education there is. And it levels up your influence over them and in their lives. The one thing that sticks out to people, and this isn't just us saying it, it's them saying it to us when they come on trips with us or they meet our kids or whatever, they see how much influence we have. And when I say influence over our kids, this isn't innate.

Manipulative with our grabbing way. Yeah, we have influence with our kids. They seek out our advice our Our wisdom they ask us questions. They they want to be with us. They want to spend time with us We have influence with them because of the hours that we've invested in them and in our family and in ourselves Well, and that's what that's what they see

And we had this conversation yesterday. Like we have influence capital, so to speak, with our kids because they are observing. Never, ever underestimate how much your kids are observing you. They're paying attention. They may not be able to articulate it, but they see what you're doing day in and day out. And so my children know me.

better than anyone else. And they see me more often in more circumstances than anyone else on the planet. And my own kids are like, Hey, dad, like, I'll listen to you. I'll follow you. I'll do what you ask because I see you doing what you say. Right? You live what you teach. So yeah, I'm going to pay attention. Right. Right. And they said that yesterday. I'm not, I'm not tuning my own horn here. I'm just like, this is part of the formula. If you are

striving to be the best version of yourself, that's the critical element in this educational piece of, you know, education is formation. It's not just academics. It's not a transfer of information. It's the formation and the cultivation of the human being. Exactly. So in that, they have to see that. So if I'm living and really striving to be the very best version of myself, then I have influence on my kids. Well, and then back to that idea of teachers teach who they are.

Rachel Denning (46:55.565)
then of course the obvious choice is if you're that person who's living at that higher level and that higher standard, your children should be spending more time and being exposed more to you than to anyone else. Because you're going to be then charting that path for them to follow for the rest of their life. Yes. Ooh, let's really just emphasize that. The best education that any child can have is to have proximity to somebody who's setting a world -class exam.

That's it. Mm -hmm. So you you get a child because they're gonna absorb what they're surrounded by Every child does there's no getting around that So the best education then is to surround them with people who have great habits great mindsets great skill sets great heart sets People who are really striving to live life as superb human beings Put a child next to that person

and let them be mentored and guided and read this and do this. Oh, don't do that. But there's going to be correction and feedback and encouragement. That's what you want. Proximity to that as much as you possibly can. The goal then is to be that person. And then where you lack, which I lack infinitely in so many skill sets and knowledge bases. So then I go out and I outsource it. I find somebody who is truly phenomenal at

Knowledge base or skill set and I hire that person to teach and tutor my children whether I buy their course or their book or you send them to a webinar or seminar or Whatever it is or even a live camp or I couldn't help my kids with music skills if my life depended on it, right? So I'm gonna find somebody who's a good person and has really great skills whether it's voice or guitar or whatever and I'm gonna outsource because

I am not, I'm absolutely utterly failing to set an example of music for my children. And it's on me. But my kids are actually very musically talented and it's beautiful, wonderful in spite of their father's failings. So I'm going to ask for a sell one because I'm not doing, I'm not doing, I don't have it. And so that's one of those examples where I'm like, I'm setting example in so many ways, but in so many ways that I'm not, I'm an out.

Rachel Denning (49:19.277)
But if we think that, well, you know, I just want to outsource all of that, that's why I'm sending them to school, which in a way that's what school is, you're outsourcing their education by sending them away. The major point we're trying to make here is that you're losing the power to influence your children simply by reducing the number of hours they have with you. And I get it, you know, there's plenty of parents that they're okay with that because like my oldest daughter just the other day was, you know, she...

loves to bring us these things to think what do you guys think about this and how would you respond to this? And one of them was like, let's just normalize not liking our kids, right? There's just moms out there. They just don't like their kids and that's okay. Let's normalize that. And so there are those parents out there who just want to send their kids away to school because they don't like them. They don't want to spend time with them and they want to have time for themselves. They're all their selfish people, but that's not who we're talking to. And that's not what we're talking about.

We're talking about the people that want to have something better than that. They want to like their kids. They want to spend time with their kids or at least learn how to spend, enjoy spending time with our kids. They want to make sure their kids get the best education possible and they want to have a lifelong friendship and influence in their children's life because they care about them. And you're going to gain that at higher levels by having your children with you more.

Not less. And helping them become likable, good humans. Ladies and gentlemen, if you do not like your children, that's on you. You own that. If your kids are annoying, that's on you. Well, one of Jordan Peterson's 12 rules of life is, you know, don't let your children do things that make you not like them. Because when they do things that you don't like, they're also not liked by other people. And you are

like setting your child up for failure to behave in ways that aren't likable. So then they go out into the world not being liked and wondering what's wrong with them. It's your responsibility to teach them how to be like, that's not to conform or to, you know, like be a people pleaser, but to understand that, yeah, there's, you know, there's certain rules of engagement in society and you need to at least understand what they are. And of course that's part of a phenomenal education. So, okay, now on the other side of this a little bit.

Rachel Denning (51:44.685)
is along with the number of hours you spend away, they spend away from you, which reduces the amount of influence you have over them. Increases their peer influence. It also increases their peer dependence and their peer influence. There's an amazing book that all parents should read. It's called Hold On To Your Kids, and it talks about the destructive force of peer dependence and peer influence. And,

There's just like, okay, but I just want to say something. Well, okay. Maybe you should say that first and then I'll. When I met Rachel, she was working at a daycare center and I was working at a high school. So I was working with teens and actually, you know, I had the privilege of working with just all teens, but some very troubled teens. And so the stories I heard,

and the things I saw of just horrendous, horrendous atrocities being committed and sick things and sad things. Well, and you guys know my story. I was out on my own at 16. I was living in bad neighborhoods in the bad part of town and I saw horrendous things. So I already knew. Even before I met Rachel, I had lived with all kinds of families and convicts and...

I've lived in all kinds of, so I know I saw firsthand what youth are capable of and most of which they picked up from their home. So there's a lot, and this is so sad, it just breaks my heart. There's a lot of evil, dark, heinous things happening every day in families and homes. The kids, they just pick it up. They mimic it.

That's just the world they grew up in. Unfortunately, it's so sad. Well, and get to school. Perfect example of this is when I was working at that daycare, I was teaching five year olds. That's where I was going. Oh, yeah. And so, you know, one day during nap time, I walk over behind the bookcase and there's two five year olds trying to have sex.

Rachel Denning (53:58.317)
And I'm like, how does this even, how is this even possible? Like they don't even have the capability of doing this and yet they're trying to mimic the act that they've seen somewhere. And then this is what they're doing during nap time in daycare. Yep. And that's where I was going. That last story, because I knew it happened at, you know, high school level. And then you told me, I was like, Oh my goodness, these little, little kids are either seeing, um, well, and if,

If they happen to see their parents having sex, that's one thing. What's happening more often is they're observing abuse or they're being abused. Or they're just watching shows that are not appropriate for their age. Or they're being exposed to porn or all kinds of stuff. And because I'm an advocate against human trafficking, I'm aware of...

stories and examples and I, you know, getting involved in that doesn't, it doesn't take far to study this a little bit. And you realize, okay, the, the, the unbelievable amount of abuse that's happening every day. And most abusers are, are somebody that the person knows. So it's usually within their home or they're related to them or it's nearby. The amount of that garbage is happening all the time. It will blow your minds. And that stuff's being brought into the school.

So when we talk about peer dependence and peer influence, you think, oh no, my kids have good friends, or we live in a good area, or we live in a very Christian area, or whatever it is. It is so absurdly naive to think that because you're in a good area, or you're around quote good people, or they're church people or whatever, it is so naive to think that.

the same amount of filth and garbage is not happening in those homes as well. I guarantee you in whatever neighborhood you live in, whatever church congregation you go to, I guarantee there are hardcore porn addicts and perverts. There's highly likely going to be child sex offenders in there. There's all kinds of despicable things happening in those homes that those kids are taking with them to school.

Rachel Denning (56:23.213)
and sharing it, influencing it, like whatever, it's happening. And from porn to drugs to abuse to disgusting racism and prejudice or whatever, name your vice, it's happening in their homes and it's going to the school and your kids are being exposed to it. And just to be clear here, you know, and hopefully you guys know this, if you've listened to our other podcasts and our other whatever, anything else we have.

We're in no way promoting sheltering your children from all the evils of the world, right? That's not the platform we have because we are very much about exposing your children to the dark side of the world and preparing them to be able to take it on, right? To fight it. But the point is there's a time and place for that to happen.

And it shouldn't be happening when they're five years old. We're not talking about throwing your five year old to the wolves saying, Hey, you're going to have to be exposed to the world sometime kid. Nor at 15 via their peers. Right. The exposure to the dark side of the world should come from a mentor, ideally a parent. I want to be the one who exposes my children to the evils of the world. Me. Yes. I want my arm around them.

I say son or daughter, this is the reality of what's happening. No sugar coating, no holding back. This is the evil that's happening in the world. These are the results. This is, this is what's being done. I'm not going to, we're not going to hide with our heads in the sand. Pretend or I'm going to pretend everything's great. I'm not going to tell them that all adults are wonderful. All adults are angels. That's literally what some one was told. Or all, all Christian people are this or all it, none of that garbage. I'm going to.

I'll tell them straight up, but I want it to come from me, not from a peer that's coming from this weird background. Right, that doesn't understand it or understand the long -term consequences of it. And that's the major difference, I think, is that when you teach and train and mentor your children in the line of thinking and acting and behaving that's proven to be healthy psychologically, emotionally, mentally, physically, that's different.

Rachel Denning (58:41.133)
than them just being exposed willy -nilly to whatever that's out there and peers saying, oh, this is cool, you should try it, or this is cool, you should do it, or I think this, or he thinks that, and they don't know what's up, down, left, or right. Like someone has to be there saying, oh yeah, that's an interesting idea, but where do you think that actually leads when you think that or behave in that way? And being able to point out the long -term consequences of certain ways of thinking. And when your kids are just talking to their peers about it,

There's no one there it and in that book hold on to your kids he says it's the blind leading the blind it literally is because the peers don't have the long -term answers and They're teaching whether you like it or not. They're teaching your children how to think and what to think and Nobody's there to contradict it or say otherwise

So your kids will pick up ideas that they may hold on to for the rest of their life. You don't know. Simply because they were exposed to them and didn't have someone there to mentor their thinking about that thing. Now, some of the arguments we've heard is, well, it'll make them, yeah, some of the arguments are, you know, it'll make them tough or they need to be exposed. They're not naive and sheltered.

You know that that's just the way the world is or they better learn it or we've heard the other argument of well our children need to be there to be the good influence to to help the rest of the people who are You know whatever they're doing like our kids need to be the one to save them and to me I'm like that's a dumb idea There's no way I'm throwing my child out there to try to be the savior for a whole group pack of wolves When in order to actually and this is the point this is our point in order for them to

actually fight, let's say the wolves, they need to be strong enough and confident enough to know what they're doing to be able to fight effectively. Fighting evil ultimately comes when you're an adult prepared to take it on. And you have trained and trained and trained. Exactly. You have skills and you have a team. You have a whole army with you. Right. That's when you fight evil. Otherwise, and I'm dead serious in this, otherwise you try to fight evil before you're ready, you die.

Rachel Denning (01:01:00.173)
Well, it's like that. You lose. It's like the funny quote or phrase I heard when I was, you know, a teen, like you can't stick your hand in the mud hoping to make the mud handy. You just make your hand muddy. Right. And I think about it in the same way. Like I'm not sending my kids to school to make the mud handy. My kids are just going to get muddy. That's it. And they will. And they'll get it. And what happens, they don't come away stronger. And again, I get it. I get to see this every single day. I work with thousands of people.

And so I've been seeing it for literally over two decades. They don't come away stronger. They come away injured, hurt, maimed. And decades later, I'm still helping people deal with their emotional, mental, spiritual, social wounds that are still bleeding from experiences they had at government school and around peers. Just...

disgusting things, mean things, and it didn't make them stronger. It didn't make them better. It left them wounded. You want real strength? Well, especially because they didn't have the tools to deal with what happened to them. In that case, that would have made them stronger. But without the mentor there or somebody to help them process and handle whatever happened, it is. You're right. It just leaves them wounded. Now, when, just step back objectively and say, when do you go into battle?

Well, when you're fully armed, you're fully weaponed, you are trained so thoroughly and not just like your basic infantry soldier, like, hey, they give you a gun, you spend a few weeks shooting and like, we'll send you the front lines. Again, we're not talking about the bare minimum. We're not talking about special forces. I want like Navy SEAL level kids. When are we going to go fight evil? After we're done with our SEAL training.

Right? That's and those guys, the death rate among special forces is so low because they are good at what they do. Well, I ultimately guess that's what we're talking about. Like we're talking about home schooling, home sourcing. That's a special forces training. We're not trying to get the basic infantry. And maybe that's the great analogy there. Like, yeah, if you want your kids to be in the basic army.

Rachel Denning (01:03:27.533)
A regular soldier? Great! Government school is perfect for that. And there will be consequences. But if you want them to be special forces, you're going to have to take a different approach because you can't get the same outcome.

from the same, you can't get a different outcome from the same train. Yep. I think that's a really great, and this kind of, this reminds me of something. What you were saying before reminds me of something you said while we were driving. You're like, put me in a room full of teenagers and within minutes of talking to them, you would be able to pick out which one of them had been public school. Hands down. You put a hundred of them in there. I walked through, I can tell you which ones went to government school, which ones didn't.

because there's this, and I've seen it for years, there's this... A loofness? Yep, there's a detachment, there's a social...

Well, it's almost an unwillingness to engage with adults for one thing. Yeah, they're weird around adults or weird around kids and adults. They're uncomfortable. They're uncertain. Their main motive is fitting in. They're super insecure. Even the real confident ones, like you can sense the insecurity. They've probably because they've been mocked and made fun of so much that they're just hurting. They don't know how to be fully.

present. They're constantly trying to be cool. They're mocking and making fun of others a lot. There's a lot of mockery and sarcasm. There's all these elements and I just spent a couple minutes with them. They're wearing masks. They're putting on a show. They feel like they're performing because that's what they've been conditioned to do and they have a hard time staying focused.

Rachel Denning (01:05:19.309)
for a long time. Or engaging in deep conversation. Yep. It's really fascinating and they'll behave differently around peers of their own age versus. Versus adults. Any other age. There's a lot to it and it's all, that's all kind of just the side effects of sending them to government school. Exactly. So, and I guess that kind of brings us to another point that I have written down here because obviously a lot of the iconic reason for sending your kids to school is socialization.

I have to send my kids to school so they can be socialized where in my mind at this point It's not even a real argument because as we pointed out, they're not properly socialized their peer socialized That's not real socialization because real socialization in the real world in a community Includes interaction with people from all ages all demographics not just your peers Well, my definition of social leadership is the ability to have to start

and lead and have a meaningful conversation with anyone, anywhere, at any time. That is social leadership. And extremely few youth can do that. Now, again, we're not saying bring your kids home and they'll magically develop that. They'll have healthy socialization. That's not true either, at all. In fact, it can go very, very bad.

But we have to debunk the point there because there are very socially awkward kids that are homeschooled and they're very socially awkward kids that go to government school. And then there are very socially skilled kids that go to government school and very socially skilled kids that are homeschooled. In that instance, it generally goes with the parent. The parent has the social skills or at least

is encouraging the kid to be involved in social situations where they develop the skills. So reading the books, practicing, getting in situations where they can. I remember this situation where I've been talking about social skills and this one teenage daughter was a girl, she was struggling, she was struggling with social skills. And I met the mom.

Rachel Denning (01:07:41.933)
And I realized, oh, that's that's where she learned it. And the mom was struggling social skills. But the mom said to me, she's like, see, you know, and she's like, what's it's not it's not the parents. Do you know? Do I seem socially awkward to you? And I just didn't have the heart to say yes. I just I didn't say anything. I just smiled. And she was trying to make them, you know, give it a speech about her social skills. And I was like, I just didn't have the heart to say, yeah, it's you.

and your daughter picked it up from you. But that's the truth of it. Yeah, that is the truth of it. And so the point I think we want to make with this though is that using that as the reasoning is not sufficient enough. Because as we mentioned before, education is about formation of character, which is more than just the social skills. It needs to be all of these other pieces.

the mindset, the beliefs, the social expectation. That's what they're picking up more when they go to school for the social reason is they're picking up the social expectations. They're picking up the social faux pas, the things they shouldn't do if they're cool. And you know. Well, and how to avoid adults or how to put on a performance for adults. Oh, adults around must behave differently and then okay, adults are going to behave differently. Right. That's what they pick up. So you.

You actually have to fight that even more if you want your kids to have really great social skills. Right. Absolutely. Because true, truly great social skills, I think, come by having a sense of authenticity and integrity where you're congruent. Like who you are in private is, is congruent with who you are in public. You're not putting on this show, which is too often what's taught in, you know, in the social setting at school.

is to put on a show of, oh, I behave like this here and I behave like this over there. And so you have to realize that that's being taught unconsciously. All the time. All the time at school. We were recently on a trip and one of the moms after getting to know our kids, she just came up and she's like, I love that your kids are just unapologetically themselves. They're just confident. They're just being themselves and there's no qualms. No, they're not like hesitant or shy or.

Rachel Denning (01:10:03.245)
Am I fitting in with people like they just themselves and she says it's so beautiful that they weren't tainted in the school system by that, right? And it's true. That's one of the main reasons early on we said that dude's like, I don't want my kids going and being conditioned into some peer thing, which changes, it just goes with the fads and the phases and it's just weird. It's just toxic and weird. And it's toxic and one of the main toxic.

fallouts of it, also emphasized in that book, Hold On To Your Kids, is that it turns them toxic against their own parents. And more often than not, and their siblings, exactly, more sibling rivalry happens and more rebellion against parents happens because they're simply in an environment where what their peers think matters more than anything else. And so the more time your kid, back to what we mentioned before, the more time your kid spend with the peers,

the less influence you have over them. And obvious disclaimer there is if you're not leading a happy, healthy life at home where you're joyful most of the time, you're engaging with humanity and life and you're leading an environment that's good. You're learning, you're passionate.

then your kids, if you bring your kids home and you guys fight all the time and your kids fight all the time and you're angry and explosive and you have a little toxic environment in your home, then the kids will pick that up too. So it's bringing them home will only work if you are facilitating healthy, happy, social relationships. And you know, we've heard it over and over again where the common thing is mom's like, oh, I just had to put my kids back in school because...

We were just fighting all the time in this net. Yeah, I get it. That's going to happen. But what doesn't have to happen? Well, what I'm trying to say is the obstacle is the way exactly that that's going to happen, meaning it may be inevitable because of how your relationships are. But when you bring that kid home, you're going to have conflict. But that obstacle is the way to a better relationship with that child because it's exposing the problem. It's exposing the problem, which is saying, hey, this needs to be fixed.

Rachel Denning (01:12:20.205)
And if you just put the kid back in school, that doesn't fix the problem just because you remove the conflict. It's just the friction. It's simply avoiding the problem that's there. And then that becomes then the foundation of the lifelong distance between you and that child. Well, and then siblings. And so if your if your kids are fighting, what that is, it's a symptom. It's a symptom of problem. And the fight is just a mirror saying, hey,

Here's something you need to work on and solve and fix. And if your kids are defiant, if they're talking back, if they're mean to you or to each other, disrespectful. Yeah. If there's, if there's any gap, all that is, is a mirror. Your home is just filled with mirrors and it's like, Oh, there's something that needs to be resolved. There's something that needs to be changed or something that needs to be fixed. Now, the hardest part of this entire process. And in fact, I would say,

this is the hardest part about homeschooling your children is that it does hold up a mirror of your own insufficiencies. And so when that mirror is being held up of like, wow, this child and I can't get along, it means there's something about me I have to change. The easy solution is spend less time with this child, send them away. Then I don't have to deal with them. That's not a solution. It's not a solution. It's just an avoidance of the problem.

The real solution is to change myself, be the change that you would see in the world, right? This very point is another reason I'd say, yeah, you should homeschool. Because when you bring your kids home, it's going to expose all the things you've got to fix. Right. You have to become a bigger, better person. And you have to figure out how to help your kids do it too. So guess what? You should homeschool. Well, and the - Because you're grossly inadequate. And - Oh, go for it.

and the process of having those weaknesses revealed to you and then going through to change them or improve them is goes back to what we were talking about before where that then gains you more influence with your kids because they see you transforming. They see you taking on that transformation, which then makes you a more respectable person to them and someone worth listening to and someone worth following. Absolutely. And we can talk about this because we went through it and we still are going through it.

Rachel Denning (01:14:46.349)
Right. Rachel and I had to level up massively and we still are, we're still growing. We're still being exposed to the gaps in our own development. And that's why we have seven kids at home, some with unique particular challenges in education. You know, every kid being different, every kid being a different kind of learner, a different response, different needs. We have

Neurodiverse, you could say, since that's a popular word nowadays. We've got neurodiversity. Yeah. And okay, great. When you bring them home and the problem arises, you don't go, oh, can't handle this. I better send them off to somebody else and ignore it. Like, no way. We're going to figure out how to make this work. I guess that was the benefit that we had in part because we combined our homeschooling with a travel lifestyle. We often didn't have it or any other option.

And I'm not going to lie, there were times when I was at my wit's end thinking, I just want to put these kids in school, but I didn't have the option because we were living in Nicaragua or somewhere in the world where I couldn't just throw them in school because I wanted to. So we were forced. It's kind of funny to look back over the last 21 years and kind of just chuckle at how many times you're like, that's it. Yeah, I'm sending them to school. And you'd be like, no.

I can't happen, not gonna happen. But as a result, we were forced to find solutions. Oh, this kid's not doing this? I guess I gotta figure out how to help him do that thing or how to help her do this thing, how to help her learn this or that or read or study or do the math. We were forced to find solutions rather than to just give it up and hand them over to the government school. It wasn't an option for us. Right, and it was hard. It was hard on you. It was hard.

I guess this is beautiful to hear you say this. You went through the gauntlet of home education with seven children while we're traveling. Worth it? Absolutely. Because, not to brag, look at the outcomes. We literally have a great family and amazing kids. Which, as you alluded to, was manifest yesterday, one of the times, when it was your birthday, we have this tradition of...

Rachel Denning (01:17:11.053)
saying what we love about the person on their birthday. And we had a very long, beautiful discussion. Mostly our kids talking about how much they love and adore you and how much they love our life and how much they love each other and that they're each other's best friends. And we have an amazing life that they want to be a part of. And when they leave, they're sad, but they are so excited to come back. Like on and on, all of these things. That right there is the proof. Proof's in the pudding. The pudding's in the proof. How does that go? The results don't lie. Right.

Those are the results. And so it was worth every sacrifice and every effort. And yeah, as hard as it was, I'd do it again because it got the outcomes we want. And that was one of the things we wrote at the end here. Like ultimately, what is the outcome you want? If you want the mediocre outcome with good kids, with a good education from good schools, yeah. That path is laid out. Actually, yeah, it's extremely rare to get...

good kids that are actually healthy. And I'm being sincere. I'm not being pessimistic here or even cynical. Okay, I guess if you're talking about statistics. No, you take the average kid from the average, even from the good schools, what percentage of kids will make it through the school system and have their mind, body, and spirit intact in a good, solid way?

not even counting the educational aspect of academics or whatever. Yes, exactly. So then let's add social, like really good, true friendships and social skills and a really great education and a great base and just a deep love of learning. Just take those five things. What percentage of kids go through the government school system and come out with those five things? It's unbelievably rare. Probably less than 10%. Oh, way less. And some people think, well, no, I know a lot of kids and I see these good families at...

And what's interesting about that is you and I were in a different position because people, good, good people come to us and tell us their problems. And because they want help. What's interesting is they don't tell anyone else their problem. So from the outside, everyone's looking at him like, man, that family's got it all together. They're amazing. They're the, they're the model family and that model family. And again, they're great human beings. I'm not, I'm not throwing anybody under the bus here. They're struggling with.

Rachel Denning (01:19:36.141)
Really serious problems and they're coming to us for help So we get to see the behind the scenes that no one else does and what that's done for me is it just changes my perspective of the percentage of people who are really health and fit Healthy and fit in mind body and spirit. It's extremely extremely rare and Well, and in some ways that's just what what we're emphasizing here is that's the natural result of the system exactly

It's not their fault. That's just what the system produces. And so we're saying if you want something different than what the system produces, something better, you have to take a different path. A better path. It's the only way. Now, the one thing I wanted to, you asked me, what is it you really want? One thing I want is I want our kids to absolutely love, love, love learning. I want them to be lifelong learners. They're just addicted even. I want to...

positive addiction to learning and not just fluffy learning but real learning real love of reading and expanding their minds and tackling challenging subjects and our kids have that our daughter read a hundred and was 127 books last year read or listen to 127 books and these weren't fluffy books they were great books the phenomenal list that for a 16 year old girl that one year of that many

good books, high quality books is infinitely worth way more than four years in public school all day long, all day long. In fact, she read more books that year than most people read in their entire life. And these are books that were life changing books. And she said that she's like, I'm a different person. I can't be the same person. She was expanded her mind or soul just expanded by those books.

by that content, by the exposure to vocabulary and stories and right and wrong and choices and on and on and on. All these subjects and all these things. It's so beautiful, so much development. And you don't get that in the government school system. In fact, the vast majority of students who come to this school system will tell you they don't like learning. They despise it. Yeah. In fact, it produces the opposite effect. It produces a hate of learning. And...

Rachel Denning (01:22:02.189)
Just look around, just ask any teen, most teenagers. They basically hate learning because of the public school system. And if you think that's not connected, it is. It's directly connected. The reason they hate learning is because of the system. Our 19 year old son on his own is getting up every morning and he's writing. He's geeking out about writing. He's geeking out about Jordan Peterson and then he's using Jordan Peterson's new essay app to help him learn to write. And he is loving it and he's doing it all on his own.

Nobody asked him to, nobody required him. It's what he's chosen to do because he wants to do it. He wants to keep expanding himself. And we quote Jordan Peterson a ton and there's a lot of people we're learning from. He's just an excellent example of an extremely well -rounded education. And even to listen to him talk, his presentations or his podcasts,

It's challenging. Right. So if you can understand him, that says something about the level of your education. He's tough because he's quoting so much. So you have to read a lot and you have to research a lot, engage a lot just to understand one of his presentations. Right. Because he'll reference so many things in passing about this or that or the other, unless you are familiar with what he's talking about. You're missing the point of what he's trying to infer.

All of that being said, maybe we close on this, because we've talked about this with our kids before, we've talked about it with each other, we talked about it with our coaching clients. Anytime you veer from the socially, I don't know if expected, but maybe socially expected path, the path laid out for you by society, because we'll fully admit, the path laid out for you by society, and that includes school and education,

is the path that's meant to keep you safe. It's meant to prevent you from living in dismal poverty, right, with no education. That's why it exists. It's a safety net. Well, yes, it's designed to keep you just one step above that. Well, but essentially that's what I mean. It's a safety net to, of some sort of protection. It's, it's, instead of you landing at zero,

Rachel Denning (01:24:23.597)
they've designed a system that gets you to one. Right. But I guess what I'm saying is that the danger, and this is what I'm trying to close on here, the danger of stepping off of that path, the safety net path, the status quo path, the mediocre path, is that you have to be very intentional about actually getting the results you're going after, or you will likely, if you don't,

end up worse off. And that I think we have seen play out for other people that we know. We've seen it play out in a lot of ways. But that is the danger of stepping off the status quo path. Yeah, you're right. And we have to emphasize this because whatever you choose, it has to be better than the default, than the minimum standard. So by stepping away from this, you are stepping away from a minimum standard that's designed to protect society. So excellent point.

So whatever you do, be committed to do whatever it takes to make sure it's a lot better than what you step away from. If you choose, for example, to not go to university, which is okay, because it used to be that the only place to get a really great education was at university. Now you can get it other ways. But if you lack discipline and you lack commitment and you're terrible at managing your time and making good choices and you're...

You say, you know, I'm not going to go to university because I'm going to get my own education. And then you don't do it. You're worse off. You're worse off. You're worse off. So you definitely should go to university. Knowing full well there's going to be some pretty nasty consequences because that the university says, and for the most part is unbelievably corrupt. Like, as Peter said, but the same with the homeschooling that we're talking about. Like, yeah, we're, we're giving this whole speech talking about why you should homeschool, but it's with a warning that.

if you decide to go that path and you don't do the extra, because here's the danger. At least if your kids are going to public school, they're learning something. If you bring them home and you don't actually teach them, they're learning nothing and they're actually worse off now. So you have to have the higher vision of what you're after and then you have to be willing to do the work to make it happen or else they will end up worse off or maybe just barely.

Rachel Denning (01:26:46.957)
So that's the danger anytime you pursue the non -conventional path is because you're now required to put that safety net in place that's gone because you stepped off that path. So for those of you who've already chosen this path, congratulations, keep going. I hope you listen to this and say, I need to level up, I need to keep rising. Some of you who are considering it, you might be like, man, that sounds like way too much work. It sounds like this huge, terrible thing. And we say, yeah, it's going to be so much work. Embrace it.

Maybe that's the purpose of this message today is like, do it, go for it. Become the person you need to become. Like rise. I'm laughing because it reminds me of a conversation our oldest daughter had. She was doing some missionary work in the Dominican Republic and she had some roommates and they were talking and she was kind of telling them about our family and her parents and everything and all things are done and.

all the places we've gone, the countries we've traveled to and yada, you know, on and on, all these different things. And one of them kind of at the end, well, and she was also emphasizing like the amazing marriage we have and the relationship we have and how close we are. And I also work from home, but I also homeschool the kids and we traveled all these countries. And one of them was like, that just sounds like a lot of work.

And she was actually kind of shocked by that. And she was telling me about it. And she's like, well, yeah, it's a lot of work. But what else are you planning to do with your life? What do you want to do anyway? Sit at home and watch Netflix while you send your kids to school? Because that was kind of the other story they were giving. They were talking about what they want to do with their life. And that's how it had come up. Because she said, well, I want to do things like my parents have done and pursuing their dreams and all this. And they were like, well, I just want to get married and, you know. So my kids go to school.

You stay at home, mom, send my kids to school and be home. And she's like, what? She couldn't get it. She's like, what are you going to do at home? What value are you bringing to your family? What value are you bringing to the world? Like, how is that a life path worth pursuing? She just could not get it in her head. Why to them, that seems so much better than all the work involved in creating something extraordinary.

Rachel Denning (01:29:11.597)
And so yeah, that's the message. It's not gonna be easy. It's a lot of work. But if you want extraordinary results, it requires an extraordinary effort. The extra comes in front of the ordinary. Exactly, it does. That's a really profound idea. Like, what are you doing with yourself? What are you doing with your life? What are you doing with the 24 hours that you have? And interestingly, because we used to be there too.

Some of us feel like we're just drowning in our little list of to -dos. And when you're in it, it feels real. It feels like, I remember this. It feels stressful and it feels like overwhelming. Oh my gosh, I have so much to do. And now I look back at myself and I laugh out loud. I can't believe I even felt like that was a workload. I was so weak and so underdeveloped and I thought I was busy.

I didn't know what busy was. I had never been exposed how to actually get things done. And had I stayed there and like, oh, this is so much. Oh, this is so hard. Oh, I just want to take it easy. I just want to unwind. I just need some downtime. I just need a long time to recover from getting my kids ready in the morning and then getting to bed at night. Oh, it's so weak.

It's true. So, so weak. I want to share just quick analogy. One of my coaching clients, he's living in an RV full time with his family. So he bought a new huge RV, like massive. And he went and bought a new big old truck for it, right? Brand new truck. And they had it for several months and this light kept going off. What's going on? I take it in and it was under warranty. So they fixed the truck and the light kept going on and going in and

And they finally went in and this is a big, big strong brand new truck. And it's like, yeah, the truck can handle the weight. It was like when our trailer is loaded out, it's over 20 ,000 pounds. And he's like, yeah, unfortunately, you know, it's a new truck, it's a powerful truck, but it just can't handle the load. So he went and he upgraded to like the biggest, baddest truck, right? This huge dually. And he hooked up his 20 ,000.

Rachel Denning (01:31:38.157)
plus trailer and drove over the Rocky Mountains in winter to go they're going for the ski season. And he's like, I was accelerating uphill over Colorado. And the truck I couldn't even tell my trailer was on there. I just punched the gas on the truck because I needed to go faster. I wanted to and it didn't even respond. Like I couldn't tell the trailer was on there. And like I had to look back and make sure the trailer is still there because the truck is

And he's like, it's like my truck's just sitting there telling me like, go ahead, put anything you want on me or behind me, whatever. You won't even know I'm pulling. Right. And so he and I got talking. I'm like, that's the caliber of people we want to be. That's the caliber of men and women we need to be the caliber of parents. Like bring it. Is that all the load you got? Cause I'm capable of all that and more. That's the kind of capacity and capability and competence we want.

Like I can handle the load, whatever. Where before I was like a little broken down Volkswagen, like, don't put two people back there, I'll fall apart. Right? We're so weak. I was, I'll be the first to admit it, I was so weak and pathetic and incapable. My capacity was so small. It was like a little dripper, not a big container that could hold stuff.

And if we choose the easy path, we stay small. Right. Well, one of the things I feel like I love to tell people in my 20 day coaching is that.

the life of your dreams is gonna require way more work than you're currently doing. I mean, I think it was Henry Ford or someone who said, you know, everything you dream of comes in the form of work. And that's a reality. Like, we think we want some dream life or some vision of whatever it is, the family life that we wanna have.

Rachel Denning (01:33:47.181)
but we somehow think we'll be able to get it by doing the same effort we're making now or even less. And that's just not true. Everything you want is going to require more work from you. And that includes your family. If you want a better family, it's going to take more work. If you want a better education, it's going to take more work.

And the key is you have to learn how to do the work because we all only have 24 hours. And if I had the same tools and the same skill set now that I did back then, there's no way I could do what we do and neither nor could you. You actually have to get the tools and the leverage, which is why you have the 20 -80 challenge, why I haven't beaten that master class. It's the tools and the leverage. So now with the right lever, we can lift these massive loads with

the amount of work we're doing. So you're saying it requires more work and that's true, but it's done in a way. Sometimes it's smarter work. That it's actually sustainable. Yeah, exactly. We're not getting burned out. In fact, we're less burned out now while doing more work. So it's like we have less stress, more results. Yeah. How awesome is that? We're doing more, but with less stress. Yep, exactly.

more capability and capacity. Like that truck. Yeah, exactly. Carry them over. So hopefully this is helpful. Again, you guys, we're not telling you what you should do. Although here I am saying you should take your kids out of government school. But the message is at the core, at the fundamental level, it's hey, this is why we chose to do it. And I guess essentially the message is what outcomes do you want? You've got to think about that. If you want different outcomes, you are going to have to take different paths.

It's that simple. And now that we have three kids who are adults and we've been doing this for 21 years, it's beautiful. And we have the results. It's working wonderfully. And we love it. We love our life and we love our family. And it's all lined up. And I guess we're here saying it totally works if you work.

Rachel Denning (01:36:09.933)
it. Awesome. So love you guys. Thanks for listening. Let us know. Actually join us get get the coaching get the tools get the resources get the leverage don't try to figure it out on your own. Let us let us help you get this stuff. Love you guys. Thanks for listening.