Get answers to your questions about marriage, parenting and family life from experts and parents of 7 children!

Rachel Denning (00:10.67)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. Rachel and I. This is not Batman, this is Greg Denning. This is my Batman voice. With his congestion. We just arrived in Scotland again. We love this little island country. It's awesome up here, we love it. And we're on our another getaway. I think this is our fifth getaway this year. There's a couple, this is a little.

extreme for, well, we don't usually have this many couples getaways in a year. It's been awesome. I've loved it. We always do get away multiple times, but five this year has been magical, man. It's just been awesome. Extreme in a good way. We just set out at the beginning of the year like, we're going to get away a lot. It just worked out wonderfully well. So it's been so fun. And we were just.

basking in it today, talking about how fun it is to the food and the shopping and new places and just getting away to just enjoy each other's company and talk without interruption. Celebrate our marriage. It's so, it's so awesome. So, so awesome. But one of the things we were talking about, and this was fun because we just talk about all kinds of things. We philosophize and, and just discuss so much. And one of the things that we were discussing today is how

there's this really crazy dichotomy and it's so challenging to understand and even more challenging to practice. And it's this idea of intensely wanting something and yet being somehow detached from the outcome. Right? So it's, we were joking about it, it's kind of...

Like wanting it and not caring if you get it in a weird way. Right, exactly. And yet it is the very approach or strategy that we have used for, I would say probably at least 18 years, for achieving big dreams and goals, parenting our kids, in our marriage. I mean, it applies in so many different ways. And so you guys might be like, wait, what? What the heck are you talking about? And we're just.

Rachel Denning (02:39.502)
We're talking about this approach where, and it came up in the context of parenting in general and how a lot of parents, out of the best intentions of their heart, they want to produce certain outcomes in their family and with their children. And same with marriage. It plays out in marriage a lot too. And unfortunately, what ends up happening is that because they are so determined, determinedly attached,

to that outcome, their approach becomes very controlling and sometimes domineering. Or abrasive or tyrannical or authoritarian. Yeah. I guess that's the point. With best intentions. With really good intentions and being a really good person, if you're too attached to it, you actually... You become the timer. Yeah. It goes in one of those directions. Mm -hmm.

because the attachment to the outcome is so intense that it actually warps into something abrasive or... Well, it actually becomes the opposite of what you're trying to achieve, essentially. Because of your control to try and create a certain outcome, your kids turn out the exact opposite of what you wanted. Exactly. You collude in creating...

The, I mean, okay, the perfect example is you want a wonderful relationship with someone. And so you're so attached to that and you try so hard that you end up over trying and overdoing it somehow. And so then that person only wants distance from you. Yes. And this happens in the parent -child relationship and we've seen it a lot. And so - And marriages too. Yeah, totally it does.

And so what you have to do, and this is what's crazy because we get on this podcast and we give this parenting and marriage advice and yet we know that there's so many layers to it and we're not always aware of the layers we haven't told you about yet, right? And so as we were talking about this even today, we were sitting in the airport in Portugal waiting for our flight to Edinburgh and...

Rachel Denning (05:04.238)
We were talking about it and I said, you know what? We have really adopted this approach and it's been a part of our way of doing things for so long now and I think it's an integral, critical piece for achieving the outcomes we have achieved, whether that's in our marriage or in our parenting or in our life.

business, all of the travel that we've done, all of the big adventures, all of the big goals we've achieved. We've had this approach as the basis of it, and it's made a huge difference. And so it's difficult to kind of articulate exactly what it is, but I know where we picked it up, and we picked it up years ago when we were listening to Wayne Dyer books. We got into Wayne Dyer a long time ago. He's since passed away. He's a...

If you don't know anything about him, he was an author, kind of a new age spiritual type metaphysical author. And I just remember him saying or teaching that you had to be detached from the outcomes. And I remember, like I can vividly remember listening to him say that and thinking, what? How does that even work? Well, at first you thought it was weird. Yeah.

Because he was talking about like, you have to want it and then you have to be detached from it. You have to want it without wanting it. Yeah. I'm like, what are you talking about? What a weirdo. Yeah. Like, how do you want something without wanting it? Yeah. Or how do you desperately want a goal that you're completely detached from whether you get it or not? Or how do you add to that manifesting or the secret or things? Like, how do you attract something without being attached to actually receiving that thing? Right. And.

And even while we're talking about it, we recognize it sounds strange. It sounds really weird. And yet we know it's been a very important piece of the entire puzzle, right? We've been able to create what we have because we have this essentially detachment. We care, but we don't care, right? And yet what's interesting, and those of you know us and if you've been around us or spent time with us,

Rachel Denning (07:27.118)
We're extremely intentional about every aspect of our lives. We are very optimized. Every aspect. And we're very organized and very deliberate. And strategic. We want our life to be extraordinary, every part of it. So mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, social, financial. We are deliberate about crafting it in a way that's awesome, that aligns with our dreams.

And when we set our sights on something, we get after it. We go make things happen. We've been able to do stuff already. I mean, I'm 45 and Rachel's 44. We've done things. We've lived multiple lifetimes already. We have. I mean, we say it all the time. We have literally lived multiple lifetimes. It's unreal. And so you might think, that doesn't sound very detached from outcomes.

And so we want to say that. We're like, no, we are driven. We want things and we get after them. And yet we do. We have this sense of detachment that what it does is it prevents us from getting tyrannical or authoritarian or controlling or crazy. And I know, at least from my perspective, it prevents me, at least it reduces the amount of stress or worry or...

anxiety or you know all of those negative emotions that can be attached to trying to force certain outcomes it reduces or eliminates that because we practice this sense of detachment. That's such a great insight right there. Well and it's also very... I want to emphasize what you're saying though like the stress, the worry, frustration, disappointment.

It's almost like you're white knuckle. Right. You're squeezing onto something like, I'm going to hold on to these kids. And you get sick and you get worried. You get intense and everyone around you feels that energy. It's like, oh my gosh. And I've noticed this. OK, this is a cool example. You get around some of the most competent.

Rachel Denning (09:45.902)
go -getters. Not the, like you can tell the difference, the ones that are, they've gone too far and they are the authoritarian driven, just crazy, and you're like, oh, it's too much. Success at all costs. Yes, yes, yes, that's a great example. I'll sacrifice my family. Everything goes, I'm going all in, it's everything. That's too far. But then you come back a little bit where you meet these balanced people and...

you get around them, and I personally know some warriors. Like they're, and they do when it's time to go, they go. But what's interesting is otherwise they're really chill. They're super calm and they love to play. They're like fun, happy, go lucky, like just chill and you talk to them and you're like, I can't picture you.

this warrior, but then you see him go into work mode and they flip the switch and you're like, oh my goodness, like this guy means business. And then you see him switch back and it's amazing. They've found this space where, and this is the healthy, healthy ones, like they're just really balanced. They found this way to...

be super competent and very successful and yet remain centered and grounded and detached. Yeah, and I think it's interesting in that example there, I imagine that when you go into that mode, the warrior mode or the work mode or the get things done mode, when you have this sense of balance and

and detachment, so to say, you're not necessarily attached to the outcome because you're connected to simply doing the next right thing that needs to be done. It's almost like it comes to you in the moment and you're like, this is what I need to do, moment by moment. You do that thing. And you do it well. And you do it well. And you produce outcomes, often the ones you want, but you're not, it's not like you're.

Rachel Denning (12:01.774)
It's not like you're trying to force this one thing. You're just taking it moment by moment. Which I think is such an important distinction. I'm glad you articulate that because in that scenario, you're more focused on doing the next thing well. Right. Knowing that it will produce a good outcome. Right. Where I think others get confused. They get so focused and attached to the outcome, they'll use any means, sometimes very ineffective means to get there. Exactly.

And so they never actually get there. Right. And so they're looking ahead, trying to force an outcome and stumbling through, making a mess. And then they don't get the outcome. And there's this disappointment where you step back and say, well, I'm going to focus on the method because I know what I want. I want to have, let's think kids, I want to have an absolutely world -class relationship with my kids who have become superb human beings. They are just succeeding as adults.

That's the end vision and they're raising great kids like that's that's the end goal

I'm not gonna work on that. I'm gonna work on today. And so I'm gonna know, well, in order to get there, I've gotta make sure that today really is special. And so I'm gonna do today really well. Well, yeah, I like that. You focus on the method and you focus on the moment. So you're living in the moment in the best way possible. And bringing this back, you know,

I know in my own parenting, this is what I have developed being able to do, is that I'm detached in the moment, focusing on the next right thing that needs to be done. And whether that's saying a certain thing or giving a hug or teaching a lesson, and you're so right there. I'm not thinking about, and that's where a lot of parents go wrong here.

Rachel Denning (14:02.574)
I think they're often thinking about, this isn't gonna help my child, whatever, do this certain outcome in my church or in society or what are my parents gonna think or what are the neighbors gonna think? It's almost like we're thinking about those things. And I know, I remember being in that spot where I would be parenting my kids but I would be thinking about something else, like my grandma's gonna think this.

If my kid does this right now in this moment. And so you're not in the moment and you're not connected with the child. So you're thinking about something else. You use ineffective methods in that moment because you're thinking about something else. You're attached to some other. Right. I want people to think of me this way. I want people to see my children. I want to be seen as. Yeah. And so then we yell and we spank and we ground and we...

scald and insult and control and we try to force obedience and we're doing all those things and those methods, they suck. They don't work and they don't produce the results we want but we resort to those ineffective methods when we're attached to some kind of outcome. Again, this is the great irony. If you're so attached to the thing you want, you won't be able to get it.

That's the irony. But if you come back and say, I'm going to do the right thing in the right way right now, then you're far more likely to get the thing you want. Exactly. Which is, essentially, I think that's what detachment is about. Because it's not being attached to some future outcome that's in your mind. It's more about detaching yourself from that outcome and instead being in the moment.

you're focusing on a way of being, not on a way of doing or a way of achieving or a way of creating, right? It's just about being your best self in that moment and connecting with the person you're with, whether that's your spouse or your child or whoever, you're being in the moment with them and you're intuitively listening to what is the right thing. I wanna use this example because in my mind,

Rachel Denning (16:26.414)
I think it's a great example. And I see it all the time. And it has to directly do with music and, well, teenagers often, but music for all children. And in the goodness of their hearts, parents will often try to control the music that their children listen to because they think attached to an outcome,

if my children listen to the wrong kind of music, they're going to do XYZ thing that I don't want them doing. Which is pretty accurate. Which is grounded in truth. Yeah, there's good reason to be concerned about what your kids listen to. But where I have seen this go wrong is that because of that fear, again, they're attached to this outcome, I don't want my children to turn into some gothic, you know, weirdo or whatever, you know, whatever their fear is that they're going to...

become because of it, they're thinking about that while they're in the moment trying to control their child's music choices. Exactly. So what happens is it backfires. It backfires because then they make music a battle instead of teaching them to make their own choices about music and to teach them how to make good choices. Yes. And I want to point this out and then I'll let you talk.

Because I've noticed this, and I've tried to, I've noticed this in myself. I've paid attention to the music my kids listen to, but more importantly for me, I pay attention to how it makes them feel, not me. And I think that's an important distinction because I have more life experience, because I have more awareness of the nuances of things, I can give meaning to music that my children would never give to the music.

they would never give the same interpretation that I do because they don't have the same experience. That can actually be really good teaching moments and lead to great mentoring. It can. It also, and I found this to be true depending on the circumstance, you know, sometimes a kid will listen to a song, they listen to it once and that's it, they never listen to it again. In those cases, I usually just let it go. I never even bring it up. Now if it's a song they start listening to over and over again, you know, oh.

Rachel Denning (18:51.598)
bring it up and be like, oh, did you know? Or maybe they even ask me sometimes. They do. They'll come up and be like, what does this mean? And I'll be like, oh, well, that actually means this, you know? And then they're - It's a reference to a drug. Yeah. It's reference to some kind of sex or - So for one thing, it becomes a conversation piece to help them learn about the world without actually going out and learning about it. And you guys, we handle this with total diplomacy and tact. And we'll make it fun or playful. We have a great relationship with our kids.

and we're teaching them, so we're not, okay, I guess there's an important distinction. Teach, don't tell. It's such an important distinction. If you're just constantly telling them, it won't work. Right. Those are just resentful. Teaching becomes even more powerful when your children come to you asking questions. That's why I'll often let them listen to things, and if they then come asking me about it,

that's more powerful. I'm able to have a more impactful conversation with them about that thing because they sought me out and they asked the question. And you're not going to... Okay, really, really important here. How you respond to your children's questions or choices will determine whether they keep coming to you with questions and whether they will share their choices with you. Exactly. If your reaction...

is in any way negative or detrimental, you have trained them and are training them to stop asking questions, to stop coming to you, and to stop telling you when they've made poor choices. And I want my kids indefinitely to come to me for questions, with questions, and to come and tell me when they've made poor choices, and ask for help. And we have that. Yeah, we absolutely have that. And the other challenging part about that, though, is...

If you don't allow your children to make choices, and occasionally at times make poor ones, they never learn how to actually make choices. Okay, that's per example what we're talking about. Yes, but I keep bringing you the music one because it's a powerful example of this. If you don't even allow your children to choose their own music, you're literally vetoing their ability to make choices. You're not allowing them to even choose what it is that they want.

Rachel Denning (21:17.166)
And in the same context, to choose what it means. All music means different things to different people. I think it probably means... I would argue differently on that one. Let me... I get what you're saying. When I was 12 years old, I miraculously, through I think my power of manifesting, was given a horse for free. A purebred Arabian horse was given to me as a gift.

by a wealthy man who owned a breeding farm for horses. And I mean, it was amazing. And I loved that horse. You need to do that again. I know. We need another pure vet Arabia. But we had to, you know, my parents didn't have a place to keep a horse. So we had to board her at a place that was, you know, 15, 20 minutes away. And we would have to go over there to feed her and whatnot. And,

I remember driving over there, you know, we'd drive over at night to feed her and there would be this song that would play on the radio. And I loved this song because it made me think of my horse and you know, I thought, oh, this song is about me and my horse. I love it. And you know, the lyrics were something like, a few stolen moments is all that we have, blah, blah, blah. And then I remember the day that my mom ruined that song for me because she told me what it was about. It was about a woman having an affair.

Ho ho ho. But I never knew that and I never made that connection. To me that song was about me and my horse. Wow. And so I think that sometimes we do that for our children. That was the innocence of youth. Yeah, that was the innocence of youth and that was the innocence of my understanding of what that song meant. And so I think that's kind of what I'm talking about. That's so hard though. That's so hard because as an adult you're like, no, they're not talking about a little girl or a horse. Like this is bad. It's a terrible message.

I get it. So that's a tough, yeah, that's a tough situation. But that's why in some ways I don't, for me I'm like, I don't want to spoil the song for my kids. Now, granted, there are certain limits to that, you know. Absolutely. But that's why I will often focus on how it makes my child feel.

Rachel Denning (23:34.766)
more than on what meaning I give to it. Right. And what they're getting. Because in their innocence, they can listen to a song that is purely just fun. They just want to sing it and dance and they know nothing about what it means. And that's okay. You don't have to spoil it for them and say, do you know that that's talking about this? How dare you listen to that kind of music? And yet, yes, you're absolutely right. Whatever's it. And yet, with, especially with our older ones.

Well, I think as they age and mature, then you can start having these conversations of like, actually this means... I'll do that. We'll listen to it. I'm like, man, this is such a fun song. Did you hear what they just said? Like what? I'm like, well, they said this. And either they know what it means and finally you've just kind of like, hey, let's take the music away and let me just put this into a sentence. Somebody walks up and says this. What is that statement? And they're like, eww.

Yeah. Okay. And okay, here's the funny, we have a favorite song in our family that we listen to all the time. We love it. Oh man, it's part of it has such a crap message. And we know it, we've talked through it. And I'm like, that's just the dumbest message. Like, dang, I love that song. I would put it on there. And we're like, and we just shout it out. And it's the singer's just belting it. And it's just fun.

And we'll put it on all of us looking at each other like, ugh, why do they have to sing that dumb message in such a great song? But for the most part, we talk through this. So I love the music. I love because it applies to food. It applies to friends. It applies to habits, what they watch, all of this stuff. It's a perfect example. So we could just get really attached to my kids are not going to have that crap and get real rigid and authoritarian or tyrannical.

or whatever it is, dictatorship, and like, that's not allowed in my home. And you're never gonna listen to that crap under my roof. And you can't eat, and you come down like that. So what happens, and we've all seen this, I see it constantly all the time. I started seeing it when I first moved out, because I moved out at 16. So I started seeing it. And then when I went to university, I saw it everywhere. As soon as the parents weren't around, the kids would binge on it. As soon as parents turn their back,

Rachel Denning (25:59.022)
It was either, you know, hey, my parents are gone for the weekend. It all comes out or hey, I'm moving out. I went to the dorm and they just destroy themselves. They call it, we call it the freshman 40. The people would gain 40 pounds or freshman year because they just ate endless crap and trash and garbage and they were trying alcohol and drugs and listening to horrid music. I mean, they just went wild.

And when I started noticing, even as a teen, I was like, because it was different for me. At 16, I was choosing. I had nobody to tell me what to do. Nobody, not a single soul telling me I couldn't or couldn't do, I could or couldn't do something. I had absolute total freedom. I had full, complete access. People were offering me drugs and alcohol and crime, sex all the time as a 16 year old. Right? I didn't touch that crap. But it was all available to me.

And at 16, I was like, well. I mean, I want to emphasize this for a second for those who don't know. You didn't touch literally anything. You've never drank alcohol. You've never tried any drugs. You never had sex until we got married. Like, that's what we're talking about. And yet I was surrounded by it. And I was sitting there and this is what's so important. I have to emphasize this to you. I chose. Of your own free will. As a teen, nobody, I didn't not touch it because I was like, oh my.

My parents would ground me or I would get in trouble or they said I can't do it so I better not. I have total access to anything. And I would stop and say, well, if I try that, will it help me get what I want? Will it help me be happy? Will it help me have a phenomenal marriage and great kids? Will it help me be wealthy and healthy and successful? Nope. And so I chose this. And so then we wanted to raise our children that way. Teach them how to choose for themselves.

I have zero concerns. Okay, we're away right now. We left all our kids at our house. It's horrible. And we're away. Rachael and I are like calling and checking in. Are you guys being good? Are you listening to good music and watching good movies? And are you eating right? And we don't have to because we've trained our kids to choose for themselves. So we are already enjoying the outcomes we want and have wanted by teaching our kids to choose it for themselves.

Rachel Denning (28:23.726)
instead of forcing it on them, because then we're still desperately want the outcome. Exactly. And within that framework, we know that there will be less than ideal choices, and we're okay with that. Like, they're not gonna, you know, it's not perfect music, and it's not perfect movies, and it's not perfect food. We know that there's gonna be some variables in there, but we're okay with that, because we're more concerned with the process of them learning to make good choices, than we are with them never seeing.

those things that are not on the list. And the perfect time for imperfection and choices is while they still at home. Exactly. So we can mentor them and guide them and lead them. And so they make a little choice and you're like, hey, let's talk through that. I'm not going to bust their chops. Let's talk through that. And what about that? And like, is that in line with who you are as your best self, who you want to become? Right. And I feel that the challenge that so many parents face is that,

when they don't provide that space for their children to be able to do what you did and to be able to have space to think, wait, is this what I want? Is this going to help me achieve what I'm trying to achieve? Without that space to go through that process, they can't learn how to do that. They can't learn how to make these decisions. And so all they're doing is doing what you told them to do until...

they're away from you and now they can choose what they actually want, which they end up often choosing the opposite simply because it's what you don't want. And we've seen this time and time and time again with all of the people that we've worked with. We know, you know, I've come across families where the kids aren't, we'll go back to the music thing. They're not allowed to choose their own music in their parents' home or in their parents' space. But as soon as their parents aren't around, they are listening.

to whatever they want to listen to, which is often what our kids are listening to. But the difference is, and think about this for a second, because I think this is important, would you rather have your children listening to things you don't want to, you don't want them to behind your back, or would you rather have them listening to things you don't want them to listen to right in front of you because they are willing to expose their choices? Expose their choices to you. And I, all day long,

Rachel Denning (30:48.526)
I would go for the second one. If my kids are going to listen to music that squares or movies or whatever, I want them to do it in front of me and not feel like they have to do it behind my back. Because we're going to have a way better relationship because of that rather than, oh, don't let mom and dad know about this. They won't approve. And to be clear, you guys, our kids listen to good music. We keep bringing this up because they'll like, hey, new song just grew at least. They'll throw it on and we'll listen to it. And like, oh, that's pretty cool. Like, let's go through those lyrics and let's talk through this.

And then they'll be like, oh yeah, that's a really crappy message. And they'll stop listening to it. So they're already doing it. They're choosing it. They're learning. It's awesome. It's a really great thing. You touched on something, Rachel, that I think is maybe the core piece of this. Most parents never get to the part of...

of talking to the kids and saying, hey, who do you want to be? How do you want to live life? What kind of person do you want to become? It often doesn't get there because of this attachment thing we're talking about. Well, it's because they've got this whole battle going on. Right. And the parents saying, I want you to be like this. I'm going to control this.

I'm going to forbid this, which is make you do this attachment to the outcome. I want you to be this way, right? It's just top down control. I want this for you. And it never gets to the way of being and it should start there. Actually, it shouldn't. It's like, never guess it. It should start with like, who do you want to be? How do you want to be like? What's because every every human being has this inner

Well, it's there naturally. I mean, it's there with small children. It's there. And so as long as you don't squelch that through your control of being so attached to how they are seen by the world, that you can then nurture that way of being so that it just continues to develop. And the opposite is true. When you try to control a human being, they will actually go against their own desires. They will violate their own desires for greatness.

Rachel Denning (33:03.918)
just to fight control? Well, and that was exactly the case. You know, that was my case. My story was I had a dad who with the best intentions, like pureness of his heart, he had been, you know, raised in really rough conditions. Yeah, rough conditions. There was some physical verbal abuse in the family. Had not been.

religious in any way, but then got into religion and really found truth and power in that. And so in that effort of his own journey, like this was a good thing, a positive thing, I'm gonna raise my family in this, but it was in a heavy handed way. Yeah, I'm gonna force this outcome of raising this certain type of family to be seen as this way. Again, pureness of his heart, but me being the oldest child and the nature I have.

That did not work with me. And so I vividly remember, and I'll use this example to share, I vividly remember trying cigarettes because I knew it would make my dad mad, even though he wasn't there. I didn't care about that. We got in a fight before school. I went to school. Someone said, oh, you want to come smoke with us? I said, yeah, I'm going to do that because it would make my dad so mad. And that's why I'm going to do it. You're purposely making choices that are -

damaging to your own self. I didn't want to say that. I had been asked before and I always said no, but that day because I was upset, I said yes because I wanted to do something that got back at my dad. Even if he never knew about it, it didn't matter. So you're interfering with that natural process of being able to connect with their own way of being and they literally will do things that sabotage themselves.

because you're getting in the way. The authoritarian. Yeah. And that's, I think that's indeed natural part of who we are. We just have to learn how to work with. Human beings are built that way. They don't want to be forced. We are made to be free. They want to be free. Remember that, ladies and gentlemen, your children to be good. They want to be great. They want to be excellent. Actually, maybe even better than you.

Rachel Denning (35:22.062)
If you give them the freedom to actually be able to choose those things while they make mistakes along the way, it's gonna be beautiful. And you're gonna then achieve the outcome you want by not being attached to forcing that outcome. Overly attached to it. Please don't misunderstand us. We are not promoting... Anything goes. Any laissez faire, like whatever. I'm gonna let my kids be free. So they do choose good things. Like that won't work. That'll backfire. So too much control.

will cause a disaster and total lack of control will cause a disaster. Yes, because we've also seen that side of it as well. It's in the middle ground where you are first and foremost setting a world class example of what it looks like to be a superb human being. That is the most important piece. And then very effectively and adroitly teaching and mentoring. You have to do both. Now, if I just set the example but I don't teach your mentor, I fail.

If I teach and mentor but I don't set the example, I fail. Because then you're a hypocrite. Yeah, exactly. So the only way this works is that I am a phenomenal example and I'm a really great teacher. Then it works like magic. And I think that the proof that it works like magic, and again, we share things from our personal lives simply as...

I guess for lack of a better word, proof that it works and then it can work. And right now, one of the things we were talking about today was the proof is that our oldest children so far,

come to us eagerly and willingly for advice still. And we know that this isn't common because we hear it. We hear it from other families, we hear it from people we work with, and you know, we hear it all over the place. Children, it's normal for teenagers to stop coming to mom and dad for advice, and then that continues into their adult years. And yet, we, all of our teenagers, and our oldest children who are adults, who've moved out already, still,

Rachel Denning (37:35.246)
are coming to us for advice, literally types of things like, I want you to approve of who I'm going to marry. I want you to, and this might sound weird, it's not in a weird way, it's not like in a, we're a cult and you know, we get that on Instagram sometimes, like you guys are a cult, it's from usually strange people that have strange profiles, but you're like, okay, who's the cult here? But it's in a sincere,

respectful way. It's just respect. They are, they completely know they're autonomous. They can make all of their own decisions. They make tons of their own decisions, but they love to have our input and feedback because we have earned that role in their life by not being controlling. We just offer advice when it's asked for. And, and all of our children, including those who moved out, love, love, love to spend time with our family. And that stood out.

that happened recently, we were at a training and they were asking Parker what he was doing. He's like, oh man, I'm so excited to go and spend time with my family. I'm so pumped. And he came over afterwards, he's like, dude, to have a 20 year old kid talk about, and this light up how excited he is to spend more time with his family. He's like, you guys have done a good thing. Yeah, and he's been in her house in Portugal for.

maybe three or four days, and he's told me two or three times, like, I am so glad to be here, I'm so glad to be with you guys. I mean, sincerely, they love it, they want to be with us, we all want to be together. And it's all because we have deliberately created this culture. And this is kind of the point, we envisioned this when we started this journey, this is what we envisioned, and yet we were detached enough from forcing that outcome that we actually were able to create it. Exactly.

because of that detachment and that just being in the moment. Love it. Okay, we're gonna cut this off because we're going out on a hot date in Scotland. But chew on this one. It is really, it really is quite a challenging idea. And yet so powerful. In fact, non -negotiable. Right. If you're gonna create the life you want successfully and be happy and peaceful and well -rounded,

Rachel Denning (40:02.286)
You have to understand this principle and practice it. And it's challenging. You gotta wrap your head around it and then start practicing it. And it can be tough. But if you don't get it right, then something always feels off. So make this one a reality. Work on it, study it, think about it, write about it, and practice it. Love you guys. Reach out for it.