Get answers to your questions about marriage, parenting and family life from experts and parents of 7 children!

Rachel Denning (00:11.63)
Welcome to today's episode. We are coming to you from Vienna, Austria. We just finished leading a World War II trip where we learned about the start of the war by the invasion in Torsach. We visited Auschwitz and Birkenau concentration camps and explored Krakow and Vienna. It was amazing. We love to receive questions from listeners, coaching clients, and members of the Extraordinary Family Life Formula. One question that we received from multiple people in the last month,

about misbehavior in young children. Essentially they asked what do I do when my four -year -old or any age acts out? They will purposely interrupt their siblings and disturb the peace. They'll lash out and it's becoming violent lately. They're even getting destructive and destroying things and are into everything. They keep interrupting the home education and family routines and they're extremely jealous of the new baby. They won't listen to either parent and they're becoming a disturbing force in the family. What do we do about it?

If you've ever had a child misbehave, especially if it happens consistently, then you want to listen to this episode. We discuss why misbehavior occurs in children of all ages and in adults. Understanding this framework of cause of behavior versus symptoms of behavior, aka the acting out part, is crucial in creating a happy family. It can also help you to understand why your teens or your spouse do the things that they do. We also address specific strategies for responding to

stopping and preventing this misbehavior. We explain why what you've tried so far isn't working and what will work instead. If you've ever felt frustrated by the misbehavior of one or more of your children and you want to put an end to it, then listen to this episode now. It will transform your family life.

Thank you so much to those of you who have recently left reviews on our podcast. We really appreciate it. And you're helping to spread the message of creating an extraordinary family life. Living an extraordinary life with your family is possible when you have the right tools, strategies, and principles. And that's why this podcast exists, to share the tools we've discovered and the strategies that work. You can help too. Share an episode with someone you know who would appreciate it or leave a review telling us when and where you listen and what impact, if any,

Rachel Denning (02:29.008)
it's had in your life. We truly believe that happy, extraordinary families start with happy, extraordinary, thriving parents who in turn raise happy, thriving children. Together we have a positive impact on our communities which leads to better nations and a better world. You make an impact by becoming the best version of yourself as an individual, spouse, and parent and then inspiring and guiding those closest to you, your spouse and children, to become their best selves. This is how you change the world. Thank you so much for listening.

If you're not already, make sure to follow our travel adventures on Instagram. You can find us at WorldSchoolFamily or at greg .denning.

Rachel Denning (03:10.638)
Hi, this is Jacinta all the way over from the UK and I wanted to say a massive thank you to you guys. I have been listening to your podcasts only in the last couple of months and came across the scheduling tips and I just wanted to say thank you. You've really helped massively with my home educating my children and you've given us a real pull your socks up kind of moment, which has just been really, really powerful. We've spent a lot of time connecting into our

intuition but we've probably gone a little bit too far into our intuition and we weren't getting enough of the basics done so I wanted to say a huge thank you for that.

Rachel Denning (03:58.669)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We're your host, Greg and Rachel Denning. We are sitting in our apartment in Vienna, Austria right now.

Beautiful cold rainy day in Vienna and we just we just listened to an awesome Little message we just got from one of our listeners. You can you can go to anchor Actually lead messages. She left a voice message. That was awesome. Thanks for reaching out and sharing that was fantastic we love love you guys and love this work and love family life and love Marriages, you guys know this man. We're just so passionate about it. This is what we live for this stuff

And for you guys. For them and for us, but also because through all of the research we've done and study and learning and history and psychology, we realized that this truly is the most important thing in the world. Like in order for the world...

society to be a positive place it needs to have strong relationships and specifically strong families and strong marriage because that's what that's the foundation that provides the solidity of a foundation of a civilization essentially exactly and and I say this not I say this with with conviction not because of my say religious background that I have

which I do have that because I feel like I moved away from that. I questioned all of that. There is even a time when I wasn't even sure if I was gonna get married. I was young of course. So I've explored that other area I guess, you know. And so I come back to it with firm conviction saying no, actually based off of not a religious perspective.

Rachel Denning (05:58.189)
Although the religious perspective supports that. Based off of all of these other perspectives, scientific, psychological, historical, evolutionary. Social? Yeah. All of these perspectives support this idea that yes, actually human beings have been experimenting for a very long time, you know, thousands of years or more. And...

As a society, we've decided that, yeah, well, we're questioning it now, but we did decide that marriage was a solid way to...

have a relationship and it was the most sure way to raise a family. And there has of course been tons of questioning of that in the past decades but... It's been questioned before too. It has been questioned before as well. Because of these cycles. We continue to question it. We continue to question if it's really that solid and significant and...

important but I've come to that conclusion through a lot of study that yeah actually it is it's critical it's crucial and then raising your kids that way in that solid environment that's the the best way to raise children loving parents in a good family environment where the kid can grow up observing and

Disfrutando. Enjoying. As you learn languages, sometimes the word pops up in another language. It's just a bit of work. Oh, that's so good. But you can benefit from and enjoy the love and the feeling, the wonder of a beautiful family. And as we travel so much, we get to see this all over the world.

Rachel Denning (07:41.709)
And as you were saying that, Rachel, I was thinking about countries I've been to where either there was a predominant religion or there wasn't. We've been in countries where there was no real religion.

And yet there was rock solid family values and you could just feel it. It was palpable in society that it just works. So we're so passionate about this as you guys know, and we love it. So we're here to like cheer you on and give tools, give you tools and tactics and trainings and tips. And but

Just an encouragement and I don't even know how to adequately just say this like thank you and way to go. Thank you for choosing to listen to this and to lean into it. Man, it's tough. Marriage is tough.

And you can just back out of it, right? You're just like, ah, it's not working out. I'll abandon it. Or you could just say, ah, raising kids is so hard. Ah, just whatever. If they survive to 18, fine. Then get out of here. And, ah, I did my part. I kept you alive. You could check out. It's easy to check out mentally, emotionally, but to stay in it means something. Right. And I think a lot of people are checking out nowadays because it is so much work. And,

They are questioning the value of it. But I, and I love how Jordan Peterson talks about this a lot, that what more important work is there? Like taking on responsibility is the most meaningful thing you can do. And how, what, what better way is there to take on responsibility than to get married and have kids? Like that's honestly the best way. It's the most challenging way. Well, that's what I was going to say. It's, it's choosing challenge, which most of us, when we think about getting

Rachel Denning (09:34.383)
married having kids we're not like oh I'm leaning into this challenge we're like oh this is gonna be great I want to spend my time with this person and then we're gonna have cute little kids, la la land here we're like we're stepping into the Republic right and but you what you're doing actually and this is a this is a really important framework it's worth discussing here for a second.

What you're doing by getting married and having children is choosing the more challenging, more responsible way. And so again, kudos to you. Now you might be hearing this and going, dang it, that's not what I was opting for.

But that is the very thing that leads to your full growth and development. You cannot become your best self without choosing that challenge. Agreed. And another thing that Peterson...

always emphasizes is that there are things you just cannot learn until you have children. And if you never have children, you'll never learn those things because you can't learn them. There's no better way or no other way to have full responsibility than by literally being responsible for the life of another human being. And that only happens when you become a parent.

And then there's layers on top of that. It's like, yeah, I'm responsible for this living, breathing thing. But then you take on the next layer of like, well, I'm going to make sure they have a really great education. I'm going to help them cultivate a moral compass and give them the skills, the life skills they need to become superb human beings. I mean, this is a big, long...

Rachel Denning (11:23.117)
It's awesome. Yeah, it is a project of decades and One of our one of our sons our next son is moving out in five days And we're we're talking about this morning in our family devotional and we're feeling the sadness of him leaving And there it is, I mean there's there's a timeline and a deadline at some point your children move out

and some of you are like, yes, I can't wait for that moment. And those will be sad, but it's gonna happen and hopefully not at 30. Hopefully, you know, somewhere when they're in their late teens, early twenties, and then it's a moment of reckoning to say, well, okay, how have we done? Because here it is, it passed. And Rachel said it just a moment ago, she's like, man.

a lot faster than we thought. It flew by. It's incredible how fast 18 years flies by. But that day will come. And it's a special day and a sad day kind of in the same moment. And yet it comes. So every effort we put in, and I guess I share that to like, there is a sense of urgency.

You can't. Right. Raising kids feels like it lasts forever, but it does not. And you can't be like, oh, we got all the time in the world. Like, getting that 18 years, those years will fly by and you're like, then many people, most of the people we talked to are like, it came too fast and they're not ready. We wish we had done more. Right? Anything that's always the case, you always wish you could do more, but.

you better have done at least. A lot. A lot. You better do a lot. So that they are somewhat prepared. Right? And so that's one of the things we're going to talk about today. And this is critically important here is we see this a lot. And we get questions. We get questions about this a lot. And we observe it a lot. And fortunately, we had an awareness of it really early on.

Rachel Denning (13:31.725)
I don't know, I think maybe just from both of our life experience and definitely from all the books we were reading.

And I mean, we start, when we started our marriage, I was working with youth already. And so I had my finger on the pulse, so to speak of children and youth. And so I could, I could sense it already because I was working with so many youth from so many families and different backgrounds and then our own life experiences. So again, it's a real blessing. Fortunately early on, we recognize this.

What we're talking about today is just noticing the needs and drives of our children and what's driving behavior. And we recognized and started working on it very intentionally, deliberately, that if the needs are met, the poor behaviors.

subside and sometimes just dissipate completely and But it's it's an it's an important framework that if we all have human we all need so this this drives behaviors like and so we back up It's like what is it that drives behavior? What is it drives behavior in children and in adults?

It's needs, fundamental needs and desires or drivers. So essentially all because the questions, we don't have a very specific question. We can try and formulate one, but the questions we receive are related to poor behavior. And in this case, specifically, it's poor behavior in young children, which this is another thing that we may not understand as parents unless we have a lot of experience and awareness. Poor behavior in children will be directly connected to poor behavior.

Rachel Denning (15:09.967)
Poor relationships and teenagers and as adults so if you have poor behavior in your children now You can't just think that all of that will just go away eventually and everything will be fine No, no, it actually stacks and it continues to stack and it continues to get worse Even if it's not manifest it's there below the surface and it's building resentment and other feelings So if you don't actually address it and take care of it along the way You're not really

the problem long term and it will show up down the road. And it's not it's not just chronological either because you could do it really well as a you know when they're young and say okay now we're now we're sad we're good and no it'll appear again as teens. You guys have heard us say this there's a lot of parallels between toddlers and teens and and it's not insulting to teenagers it's like it's another becoming a teen is another huge transition and development where they're

Literally experiencing massive transformations inside their brain new neural connections. It's a new spurt of growth of hitting adolescence So there's a lot of parallels So it's almost like a new a new burst of growth and newness and discovery of like who I am So there are a lot of parallels between toddlers and teens and this is where it's most likely where people struggle the most with behavior issues is in toddlers and teens, right and so What I was saying is that?

All poor behavior is directly connected to what you're talking about here and that's human needs that are not being met.

Because every human being, including our children, has essential human needs. This is talked about in different ways. There's Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. There's Tony Robbins' references, the six human needs. But essentially, in some way, they're all the same. And if those human needs are not being met, then it results in poor behavior. And this happens in toddlers, teenagers, young children, adults. We act out. You, dear listener.

Rachel Denning (17:16.079)
You act out, people act out when their human needs are not being met. And so... Often unconsciously or subconsciously. Oh, well especially with children for sure. But adults too. You're right, it's happening with adults too. They have these behaviors, you know, like what is going on?

And you have to walk them through this framework. So it's going to be very good for you to understand yourself. This is going to be more self -awareness. You understand your spouse, the people you work with, your siblings, your family, the family you grew up in, and especially your children. This framework fits across the board. I do want to emphasize here just in semantics and just word definitions.

Some people think a need is like the most basic fundamental things like food, water, shelter, clothing, like, well, those are the only needs because it's only a need if you'll die without it. And I understand where you come from. And we'll use needs here in a broader range of like the need for love and affection, for meaning, for purpose, for significance, for attachment, for growth and contribution. Those are all needs. But some people call them

human drives, right? Human drives. And so we can use those kind of interchangeably for this episode. And I think we use it. We use it.

as a need, we use the word need in this case because we view it as a need for your full and complete development. Your holistic best self in order for that person to thrive, all of these things are needs, emotional connection and you know, in past podcasts we've even talked about intimacy and sex, like how for your relationship, your holistic relationship to thrive, that's a need. So we use the word need because if you want to

Rachel Denning (19:06.127)
become your best self, these are the things you do need.

Now yeah, you're not going to necessarily physically die without them, but you might die mentally or emotionally or socially or spiritually. There's other types of deaths, right? And so that's why we use it as we use the word need for these things. Thank you for pointing that out. Cause I guess that's a fundamental philosophy for every time we talk about we're not here for an okay life. We didn't start a podcast. We're not sharing our stuff so like you can just survive. Exactly.

to survive family life. Just stay alive and no one dies. Like no, we want to thrive. We want to maximize potential. And so in that framework for an extraordinary family life, these are needs. And I'm with you. We'll boldly declare them as needs.

Like you need these things. So here's, now without framework, and I want you to just really spend some time thinking and writing about that.

What are those fundamental needs? And then you'll learn about them, you'll start noticing them more. You could look up, for reference, you could look up Maslow's hierarchy of needs, Tony Robbins. We actually did, early on, I think I did them without you before you joined me in this. I did five podcast episodes early on on each level of Maslow's hierarchy, and really dove into what they mean. Looking beyond the surface level of like, oh, you need food, clothing, and shelter.

Rachel Denning (20:42.413)
Anyways, so there's a ton of stuff there you can dig into. So if...

If you have that framework and there's a behavior challenge, again, it could be with you, it could be with your spouse, and especially with your children, and it could be the teens or the, you know, it actually comes up everywhere. Because even the tweens, like there's that, we have a child in that, he's 12 right now, and that's another transitional phase. And like anywhere along the way, and the needs are gonna shift a little bit or become accentuated a little bit or,

tough times in the child's life or tough time in the family. Anytime there's transitions or moves or new things happen or a new baby. Yeah anytime there's there's a significant change in life it's gonna pop up but also neglected it can also happen when life just gets dull.

and boring. It doesn't have to be like, Oh, cause some of you might hear that. Well, we're going to do everything you can to prevent any, you know, any big change happening. That's not true either because one of the most fundamental needs is, is change and novelty and excitement is starting things up. So if your life has become too dull and boring, too predictable, you and your children will, they'll start.

misbehaving. You start acting out. I need something. It needs to happen. So I guess let's dive into that framework where this really hits for you and worked out as you. Yeah, I think I want to, I like to apply it to specific situations because that can be helpful for people. So recently we've been asked by a couple different people and I think just by chance it happened to be questions about...

Rachel Denning (22:36.877)
misbehavior in, I think, four -year -olds, maybe around that age. Anyway, no, actually, I've gotten some just in the last few weeks, anywhere from two to six or seven. Right. It's kind of this range that really stands out, and of course, teenagers as well. Right. So I think we'll start there with addressing kind of these questions, but we want you to know that in general, a lot of the things we discuss and talk about can be applied ...

to other areas of life. Because too often I think people, they ask us a question and we give an answer and they think, oh, that's it. That's where that applies and that's it. But pretty much everything we talk about on every episode, we're like, okay, you could take that same principle and apply it here and here and here and here. So we'll talk about younger children, misbehavior in younger children. But this can also be applied to your teenagers. It could be applied to your spouse. So we just want to, you know, point that out.

So the questions specifically were my young child is acting out. They're being obnoxious to their siblings. They are, you know, interrupting the things they're working on. Sometimes they're getting very angry and upset. Sometimes they're being destructive, actually ruining things or destroying things. Other times it's in public. Whenever we're out in public, there's this big spectacle of misbehavior. Yeah. Or...

or like.

Like I just know that when we are in a certain situation, they're going to behave in this specific way that's very destructive or disturbing to everyone else around them. So a couple different scenarios here that are going on. And so the questions are like, what do we do about this? How do we fix this? How do we resolve this? And even there's been cases where parents are taking proactive action. They're like, okay, I think they need more attention. So I've been giving them more one -on -one attention like one day out of the week.

Rachel Denning (24:35.247)
We go and we have our one -on -one time and everything's great But then when we go back home, it's just reverts back to that behavior, right? And or when we're at home, it's okay But when we go out or when we go to a friend's house when we go to a family member's house Bama there goes that behavior again, right? And so it feels it's frustrating. Absolutely cuz you're like, how do I how do I rein this in how do I bring some control to this because I

It's not pleasant, obviously, for you as the parent, and it's not healthy for the child either. In the very last episode we did about how to make sure your kids aren't annoying, we talked about that, how you need to help your children behave in public, and not because you're worried about what people think, but because that's how your child learns how to interact in society in a way that people like them, and you want people to like them because that's the basis of forming relationships, just like we talked about. I mean, relationships are...

everything and if you can't have positive relationships with people, well how are you going to get married and how are you going to raise your own kids? Like you need to learn these skills and so that's why it's important for your kid to learn to behave in public so they're learning how to interact with people. And so what do we do about that? What do we do about this kind of behavior? And some of the answers that we gave,

are based off of this idea that we've already laid out here, this framework of the human needs. Well, the reason why your child is acting out is because one of their human needs,

are not being met. In that certain situation when the poor behavior arises, they have somehow in their mind equated that situation with an unmet need. Now of course they can't articulate this to you because they're not aware of that. They just know when I'm in this situation... Most adults haven't noticed it yet. Right, exactly. It takes a lot of awareness and studying of psychology and things. But they just know when I'm in this situation, I feel this way. And essentially what that means is that

Rachel Denning (26:47.407)
is I'm feeling that my need isn't being met. Maybe it's my need for attention, love, connection, certainty. Excitement. Right. Purpose. Exactly. Whatever. So that's why then their behavior becomes...

or disruptive because they're trying to unconsciously, subconsciously fulfill that unmet need. It often doesn't make logical sense. Well that's how I was going to go. The behavior...

then becomes, if you want to see this framework, the behavior is the vehicle to try to meet the need or the drive. But the vehicle often doesn't make sense. In fact, it creates the opposite result, but it's not logical. And this is true for youth and adults. It's just not logical. It's just something you subconsciously, the survival brain will grab hold of it or just whatever. It's just grabbing hold of this, taking this feeling that Rachel's talking about. It's like, ah, I just don't feel like,

It's being met and it's not even, it's not cognizant. It's often just instantaneous. Like you wouldn't sit there and like, well, I feel like I'm not getting this. It's just a reaction. And so the behavior, the action is the vehicle to try to meet the need. And it's so often.

maybe more often than not, it becomes a form of self -sabotage. And it's illogical and it's bizarre. And our reaction to it is like anger or frustration. We want to lash out at them like, why are you doing that? And it actually wants, instead of giving them what they need, which in a specific instance might be they need some cuddling and hugging and touch and love. That's the last thing we want to give them. Cause now that little vehicle is a

Rachel Denning (28:36.079)
I don't even like you right now. I don't want to be around you. I don't want to do anything." And so they're starving for this need to be met, and so they subconsciously choose a vehicle that actually produces the opposite result. And then it becomes this feedback loop that's...

destructive. Like they're doing something to get the attention. I think love and attention is a perfect example in this case. They're doing something to get love and attention, which actually makes you not want to give them love and attention. In fact, you want to give them the opposite. You want to punish them or isolate them, send them away. And so then it produces more of that behavior and it just goes around and around and around until you're stuck in this drama triangle that just feels hopeless. Like how do we break

this cycle of negative behavior. And so I actually just visualized the fire when you're describing that and in our attempt to quote, douse the fire that's causing the problem, we throw gasoline on it. Yeah. That's exactly what's happening. And so then it keeps going on. We're like, what in the world? So instead of putting the water on it, they would put it out. We throw fuel on it and then it gets worse. The flame gets hotter and we're just like, dad, go on it. We throw more fuel on it. I'm just going to throw as much

liquid at this thing as I can and we're actually we're feeding the fire we're feeding the problem and this will go on for years and years and years in our work with adults we hear this all.

We have these conversations and then adults that are with us will be like, oh man, well, that's how I was raised. That was my childhood. My parents never met my needs. And so then...

Rachel Denning (30:28.365)
like really deeply rooted habits and patterns and characteristics. It can become a part of your personality. And identity. And your identity. Exactly. Because those needs are never met as a kid, so now as an adult, you're deeply ingrained in this and you're actually raising your kids in a reactive...

sort of pattern to needs that were not met for you as a child. So this stuff matters so much. So if we have the, what is it? It's the awareness, the calmness to think clearly, the framework to remember. So, cause now you'll listen to this podcast today and you'll be like, oh wow, this makes so much sense. I'm totally going to do this.

But this evening, when your child chooses a vehicle, is being irritated, it's like, you have to pause. You have to pause and be like, Oh, wait a minute. What need is not being met? And that's what you're addressing. So like, let this sink in, write it down, like just set alarms alerts. So you remember it. This goes off regularly. You have to remember.

You're not addressing the symptom. You want to address the cause. You're not focusing on the effect. You're focusing on the cause. You're not going to address the behavior. You're going to address.

the need that's not being met that's causing the behavior. Right. I think one of the things that has made a huge difference in my parenting over the years is when I was able to learn how to separate those things. Because when I was a young parent, I remember feeling so involved in the process. Like it was me against the child. It was very personal. It was like this, in a way, a battle, I guess. Me and the child. But then I learned how to separate myself and to be able to

Rachel Denning (32:28.591)
look at it objectively and be like, oh, here's my child, who I love of course, and they're exhibiting these symptoms.

What is the cause of these symptoms? And then I went to work like a doctor or physician trying to solve the problem. I'm trying to solve a problem instead of trying to fight or argue or fix my kid or control my kid or punish my kid. It was no longer about that. It was about observing what was happening and then trying to solve the problem of what's causing this to happen. And this is huge because you actually, and we see this a lot.

you can get into this and we slipped into it too. You slip into this idea that if you're a really good parent, you're deeply connected with all the behaviors and the actions and what we're calling here the symptoms. And so like Rachel was describing, like you're, you're deep into it and you're, you're, you're trying to control every behavior and it feels like, yeah, I'm being a good parent cause I'm, I'm right in it. But the truth is the

Best parenting isn't, isn't symptom management. It's not behavior management. Man, I can't emphasize that enough. Phenomenal parenting is not behavior management. It's addressing the root causes and meeting the deep needs and then.

behavior or the symptoms they take care of themselves like I said before. Often the poor behavior will just dissipate. Well okay yeah you're exactly right here and and there's another way I want to say this because I know I went through this myself is that being a good parent doesn't mean your children will never have quote -unquote poor behavior.

Rachel Denning (34:19.437)
But what it does mean is that when it happens, you have the tools to know how to address those issues. And as a result of that skill you have, it reduces the overall poor behavior because you have more tools, right? Like you have more solutions to problems and you also have the ability to prevent more problems. So you do have fewer behavior issues, but they're not eliminated completely.

But the great thing is you have the tools to meet those problems when they do arise. And you have the wisdom and insight to focus on the cause, not the effect. Exactly. And to focus on solving the problem instead of punishing. I know for me that was one thing. I wanted to punish my children for misbehaving. You did this thing. It's wrong. I'm going to punish you.

That is so far from the way a parent now, it's crazy. I don't even think about that because in my mind, it's not a matter of punishment, it's a matter of identifying the cause and fixing that. Here's a perfect example, I think, that just recently happened in our family.

We have been traveling. We actually led a World War II trip this last week. And we started in Warsaw, then we traveled to Krakow, and then we traveled to Vienna. And we're in Vienna now. We had to wake up to catch a bus to Vienna at six. We woke our little girls up at 6 .30 in the morning.

and they were not happy about that. Because part of our... They got into bed too late. Well, and part of our parenting philosophy going back to this entire idea of needs, if needs are met, behavior is better, one of the needs that needs to be met is sleep. If your children get adequate sleep, guess what? Their behavior is automatically better. So much better. So we allow our children, especially our young children, to sleep until they wake up. We don't wake them up. I think...

Rachel Denning (36:25.135)
Just a side note, I think that's one of the major, major problems in society right now. Oh, absolutely. It's a way to get kids up. In fact, I thought of that very thing when we were waking up our children. I thought those poor parents and those poor children that have to get woken up every single day for school, no wonder they have poor behavior. Your body, especially young children's body, is not meant to do that. They need to sleep until their body wakes up and then they feel better. So we woke our girls up because we had to catch a bus. You know, life's still

happens you still have to do that sometimes they were not happy and they were very upset and you know crying and it was upsetting. Like I want to paint this picture they didn't want to cooperate. Right. So it was a battle and we we know of families who have a battle every single morning.

It is a battle to get their kids ready for school and out the door. And I would surmise that the reason is sleep deprivation. Absolutely. That's at least one major common contributing factor. So as I was thinking through this, I'm sitting there like, here's all of this poor behavior from my children.

But nowhere in my mind am I thinking, they need to be punished. How can they be acting like this? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I just thought, hmm, well, we got up really early, because we have to catch a bus. That's why they're acting like this. And so I had empathy for them, and I had understanding. Like, I understand, this isn't fun. And I had some hard talks of like, we have to do it anyways. I know you don't want to do it, but we just have to do it. But I had empathy for why they were behaving the way they were, because it was resulting from their...

need not being met of getting all the sleep they needed. Their bodies are used to getting all the sleep they need. So it was especially abrasive to them to not get that sleep. Now, I think it even contributed. And we had the wisdom to know this behavior wasn't like because they're bad or they're defiant or they're not cooperating or they're just having a bad attitude. They just were like. Sleep deprived. It was a reaction. Their poor little bodies and brains were just going, they want to revolt.

Rachel Denning (38:36.783)
Right. To try to meet the need. Exactly. And for my eight -year -old, I think it even contributed to her having, like we had a seven -hour bus ride and she threw up three times. Like it just contributed to her body like, oh, what's going on here? I'm not used to this. This isn't normal. And it even made her sick and stuff. But...

What I want to contrast it with is the very next morning. So we got to Vienna. We got settled. Went to bed early. We went to bed early. They slept as long as they wanted. They actually woke up at 8 .30.

Angels literally angels came into our room. Happy singing. Oh, yeah mom because they're practicing their Portuguese because they want to learn Portuguese or moving to Portugal. Boom. Yeah Like literally little angels and I thought look at the contrast This is the perfect example of why children misbehave. There is an unmet need That is contributing or causing

their poor behavior. And it's not because they're bad. It's not because they want to torment you. It's nothing like that. They want to be happy. And they want to have a fun, loving, wonderful, happy relationship with you. And the only reason they're not is because they don't feel that their need is met. Now it could be sleep. It could be food. It could be that they don't get enough love and attention from you. It could be all of those things and more. And I think

think the more of those things it is, the worse the behavior is and the more chronic it is. But once you can learn how to meet all of those needs...

Rachel Denning (40:24.589)
They are actually angels. Yeah. The natural state is happiness and joy and cooperation. They'll express love and they'll be creative. They'll be playing well with themselves. They'll play well with others. That's the natural state. So look at those fundamentals. And again, we always, we always look at sleep and food. Right. So, so going back to the very specific strategies, as soon as my children are misbehaving at all,

That is the very first thing I think about. Did they get enough sleep? When was the last time they ate? Because sometimes they start getting grumpy as soon as they're hungry. They're just getting hangry. That's it. And I'm like, okay, let's take a break and go get some food. Or thirsty. They don't know how to express that either. Especially early on, they're just like, they wouldn't say, this is hunger or some kind of nutrition. I would say even more than just hunger, it's a nutrition deficiency.

If you're feeding your kids lots of processed foods, your junk or candy, sometimes the input is a problem too. So maybe sometimes they're like, well, they just need some food. Other times they're like, no, they ate something that threw them off. And their little bodies will react to food. There's things like, of course, sugar is a problem. Food dyes, red number 40, like just weird things like that. There's so much junk in our modern food that is causing and contributing to behavioral issues.

Including specifically I want to mention some very specific things here is like vegetable oils Absolutely all those oils look look at the ingredients Do not give your kids or yourself anything that has these ingredients of like the vegetable oils are out those things are and there's tons of research behind this This isn't like our opinion. This is I'm gonna guess work There's tons of research those oils are destructive these preservatives of chemicals high fruit of corn syrup any of those fruit

Like they're just wrecking your kids. The preservatives, the food colorings like you said, you've got to keep those things out of your kids' bodies. I think this is a, I want to make a point about this and emphasize it a little because it's a huge factor for our own family life, you know, and...

Rachel Denning (42:48.013)
what we've been able to create. For one thing, people will ask me, well, I have seven children, I'm fairly thin for having done that. And they're like, how do you do that? And I don't work out a lot, but the one thing I have done very consistently from the beginning, and this was because my dad was diagnosed with cancer the week that we met and then ended up dying and all these things, I have literally...

read the label on every single thing I have bought for the past 22 years. And you think, wow, that's a lot of work. Yep, it is.

Especially when you travel and you have to go in and translate the label. I'm literally in the grocery store with Google Translate translating the label to see what is in it. Because I buy nothing. The very first thing I cut out was high fructose corn syrup. When we were young parents, our oldest was, I mean, I know for sure I was doing this by the time she was six, but I started less consistently before that, was I cut out high fructose corn syrup. I did not buy one single thing that had any form of

of corn syrup in it. That's where I started. And then over the years I've just continued to add to that list of do not buy, which now includes most seed oils, although I do cheat a little bit with mani sometimes because the little mani is on the sandwich is good. But you know, I've cut all of that out and that also contributes to...

Positive behavior from our children because they are getting for the most part pure foods They're getting milk our diet is in a lot of ways very basic We milk right and this is butter with this is whole milk organic Yeah, whole milk grass -fed grass -fed when when available organic grass fit or pasture raised eggs organic grass -fed beef

Rachel Denning (44:47.757)
That's basic. Some fruits. Some fruits. Honey. Some vegetables. Some honey. Pure maple syrup. And that's mostly what we eat.

Most of the time. And you might find this interesting that in an episode on behavior, we're talking so much about food because most of us will just make the obvious connection of like, well, what you eat is connected to your health, but it's not always so transparent or this is next level, like second level thinking, right? It's where you're like, wait a minute, how much is behavior affected by food? And it's massive. So they can't, in a conversation about behavior, you have to...

to address the quality and length of sleep and the quality of food. Absolutely, the quality of food. So meeting those fundamental ... those are the fundamental ones of making sure that's happened. So if there's any behavior issues in yourself, in your ...

your family, your children, make sure sleep's being addressed, make sure food's being addressed. Let's move to some of the other, like, emotional needs. I would say, I was gonna say, I think then the very next thing that's as important as those two, of course, is connection.

It's essentially the quality and consistency of the connection you have with your child or whoever the behavioral issue is with. If your connection is not strong and consistent, then yes, there's going to be behavioral issues. It is difficult and almost impossible to get a child to cooperate when you don't have a positive relationship with them. The emotional bank account.

Rachel Denning (46:35.439)
is a great example of this. If you haven't heard this analogy before, it comes from Stephen R. Covey, but he talks about how every, you have a bank account with every person in your life, and you can only influence them or ask them to do things or have a positive relationship with them if you have a positive balance in that account. If it's overdrawn,

you're in a bad spot and that and for children that's where bad behavior comes when they have overdrawn bank accounts when there's not enough deposits in that account of love connection cuddling all of those things they have an overdrawn account and you can't get good behavior from them it's just not possible and there's no way they can articulate that you just have to know that because they won't they won't feel it they won't be able to tell you hey I need some deposits yeah our emotional account here is it's

It's feeling like there's a death. Yeah, I really need something and I know some of you listening are like yeah, but like I sat down on Saturday and I watched a movie with them like I made a deposit and Into that I'm saying that is not cutting it at all In fact, I would say movies or video games all stuff like those are those are very weak empty deposits

And even though you might spend hours and hours watching a movie or something, it is a teeny tiny little deposit in a sense. You have to figure out how to make big substantial deposits and eliminate withdrawals. And again, I see this because I observe it all the time and working with youth and families now for well over two decades across five continents. If you insult your kids at all,

Those are gigantic withdrawals. Even disciplining them is inappropriate. Like name calling, making them feel bad. Like, yeah, the disciplining, but especially disciplining in a poor way, the yelling, the screaming, the punishing. That's in addition to just pure neglect. You'll find if you really start paying attention to this, this is kind of bold and...

Rachel Denning (48:54.893)
and kind of sad, but I think parents do far more withdrawing from the accounts than they do depositing. And then they make these little deposits and say, oh no, but I made a deposit. Like, no, that doesn't even count. Unfortunately, I would say I think most parents most days are making.

Primarily withdrawals. Just in the day -to -day interactions. They're just withdrawing all day long. And so you said something there about like you need to make huge deposits. Well, you do, but in reality, I think you need to make a lot of small deposits every single...

This is 100 % true. You have to make very small deposits throughout every single day. Yep, every single day. And, I would say it's and, I think it's both. It is both. You're right. So it's small deposits every single day and then massive deposits that you're just throwing down in big, big ways so you can have some capital there.

for the withdrawals that will happen. Right, because withdrawals will happen no matter what. Like it's inevitable. You do have to correct your child. You do have to direct and discipline them. That's going to happen in the raising of a child. But the only way it can be done effectively and without resentment and without it backfiring is if you have significant, you know, enough capital in the account, the emotional bank account, that when you make that withdrawal that has to be made, there's still money left.

You're not going into debt. So...

Rachel Denning (50:27.949)
How do you do that? How do you make these daily deposits? And for us, with our family, it's intentional and it's happening, like we said, every single day in multiple touch points. And it starts by the very first thing we do whenever we see any of our children in the morning is we greet them with a smile and a hug. And an expression of love. Exactly.

And excitement, excitement to see them, excitement for a day. Every single day, every single child. And we have seven of them. So it's possible and it makes a big difference. Now then the last thing we do every night is every single day, every single child, we express love, give a hug and say good night. Like...

That's happening every day. Then it also happens of course throughout the day. Like there's constant ongoing expressions of love. We're noticing things that are positive and we're pointing it out. Like you have to be so intentional about this or it doesn't happen. Here's another thing that we happen. I'll just be blunt here. Some of you suck at this bad.

And your parents sucked at it, so that's where it comes from. Yeah, and you might pick it up. Like, you don't even... I can tell when I try to give someone a hug and they don't even know how to hug. It's interesting. You're like, well, that was really awkward. Like, you don't know how to hug. And I can surmise right there, like, you don't hug. You're not hugging your kids. You're not hugging your spouse. You're not hugging people. And I know some of you listening are like, well, not everybody's a hugger. And I would say, become a hugger.

hugger than we need touch and there's not enough of it just good wholesome touch.

Rachel Denning (52:16.333)
And you know whether it's a it's an arm around the shoulders or is a hand on the arm or whatever just good healthy wholesome touch. Now of course there's some inappropriate weird touch don't ever go anywhere near that or any impropriety. But man we gotta be able to touch. And I think that's one thing.

that has been huge. And again, there's there's research to back all this up. We could go into all that. But touch and hugs. You should just be hugging your kids all the time. And that one's big. And then smiling and words of affirmation, words of affection. So you just are terrible at that.

I just always picture Scrooge where he's trying to like... It just doesn't come out. Practice it, work on it. And the first few times they hear you, you might feel awkward and they're gonna be like, whoa.

What'd you just say? Did you just say I love you? Like what, what's going on? Are you dying? You just go, what's going on? What's happening? What do you want? Right? And you're like, no, like, and tell them and apologize. Like, you know what? I should have expressed love more often. Do it and do it every day. Multiple times a day. You've got to learn to show it and express it. You have to. Now also along this.

Well, as well as doing those things.

Rachel Denning (53:55.213)
One of the things that came up in the questions we received is, well yeah, we're trying to give our child attention, we're taking them out, we're doing special things with them, and then during the set time, we give them a time to have the attention of everyone or whatever, something like that. Which is great. Which is great, that's a good thing. But one of the challenges with meeting needs for children and spouses,

is that it doesn't always happen on your time frame. It's not always in your schedule, right? A lot of times, and this is where it can fall apart, the child wants your attention, needs your attention at the most inconvenient time. You're trying to work, you're trying to, you know.

study, you're trying to make dinner, you're trying to do the laundry, whatever it is, there's a million and one things you're doing and that's true.

But when the child, especially if there's a deficit, this is when it makes a huge difference. When there's a deficit, especially when the child needs your love and attention, that's when they need it. And you can't push that off because it's only contributing to the problem, especially if it's been going on for a while. So if you're trying to fix something like this that's been an issue, you have to put other things on hold in order to fix the relationship and to make the deposits. So when they come to you and they're like, can you read me a story?

with me, can you do this with me?" Whenever they ask you for anything that's assigned to you, don't take that lightly. They're not just asking you things because they want to bother you. They're asking because they need something. As is misbehavior. Misbehavior is them asking for a need to be met. But if they actually come and ask you something instead of just misbehaving, like, wow, that's huge, pay attention to that and meet that need. Whatever it is, put the other things

Rachel Denning (55:55.599)
on hold.

and go and do that. Now, I realize that that may not be sustainable over the long term, but what happens is as you sacrifice to do that for a time, they then begin to feel secure in their relationship with you and they don't need it as much. And you now have the capital to be able to say when they come to you, I would love to do that right now. I have to do this thing. It will take me an hour and then we can do it after. And they understand that and they trust you to do that.

Because you've built a relationship of trust with them Yeah, and they know you'll follow through and they know you'll follow through and so you can then postpone these other things Yes, I want to do that, but I'm making dinner as soon as I'm done We'll do it and now they understand how this works and they trust it and they can they can forego their own needs In order to wait for them to be met later and that that's a really healthy relationship with boundaries on both sides I want to emphasize something so critically important here and in

is a major, major problem for most people. If you say you're going to do something and then you don't do it, that is a gigantic withdrawal from that emotional count. And then when you promise them, no, I will, they don't believe you, they don't trust you, and it's almost automatically, it's another withdrawal. And you're trying to make a deposit and they're like, there we go again. And they have to be able to trust that you will do what you say and that you're making deposits regularly and you're available. You're, you're, you're, you're

and your spouse and your children will often misbehave from a place of insecurity, lack of safety, lack of certainty. Mistrust. And mistrust. So if we all have these fundamental needs and if I feel like my need is at risk, it's insecure, right? I don't have that security in that, then I just feel desperate. And so I start doing things.

Rachel Denning (57:57.101)
And if you're like, well, no, I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll take care of this, but it's not meeting the need, then the behavior is going to keep coming. And it can be very chronic and specific, even in certain things. So it might be like you have a certain child that misbehaves every night at dinnertime, or every night at bedtime, or every morning, or every time you get in the car.

So back up and say, wait a minute, what sense of insecurity is driving that behavior in that thing? What's it like to be that child during that time? And it may have been inadvertent of you, but the child might, and the child can't articulate it, but might feel like, man, during this time or in these places, situations, I do not ever get attention from my mom or my dad. Yeah, exactly.

I don't feel hernesty or safe. I don't feel safe. I don't feel acknowledged. I don't whatever it is. So back up and say, wait a minute, what man, how can I, how can I make sure all the needs are met so that this is a smooth transition? Now, if it's a chronic behavior, even as you start meeting the need, the behavior may continue for a while because it's, it was just learned it's memorized. But as you keep meeting it, then it starts to dissipate and, and the neediness.

the desperation goes away. Now in a specific case like that you may need to...

articulate what's happening and point it out to the child. You're bringing awareness to the child and you can, you know, especially if you've been making the deposits and building that relationship of trust and then you can say, hey, I've noticed that whenever we get in the car, you do this. Why, why is that happening? Is it because of these reasons? Sometimes that's good to, you know, articulate for the child. Is it because you feel like this or this or this? Well, how about we do this instead? Or how about if you start to feel that way, you do this, you know, and you talk through it, you role play it.

Rachel Denning (59:57.103)
it and you help them become aware of what they're doing because especially if it has become like a memorized behavior or habit, they may also need help of...

figuring out what's happening, what's going on, and then how to, a specific plan for how to do it differently. Because they don't necessarily know that. Right, those are good examples. I think morning time, when you're trying to get kids going out the door and you have some kind of agenda. Evening, when you're trying to get them in bed and they're not necessarily interested. In a car, how they're supposed to behave and whatever's supposed to be happening there. Or like, like meal time or whatever. My guess is, and I want you to think through this, my guess is,

because I've seen it so many times is before

In those situations where you needed something to happen and the kids weren't cropping or whatever, my guess is you probably lashed out. There may have been some screaming, some scalding, some punishment, some forcing. And what that did, even though that's not what you intended, is it created this insecurity, this desperation. Well, it conditioned them to associate that specific time or place with that kind of behavior. So they're automatically thinking, mom's going to behave like this because it's bedtime.

So mom doesn't like me when we're in the car. Exactly. Or mom doesn't like me at bedtime. Yeah. Or dad, you know, in the mornings, dad doesn't care about me. He only cares about the schedule. Now let that sink in. That's so profound and so important. My dad doesn't care about me. He only cares about his work.

Rachel Denning (01:01:38.541)
I know that's not what you're conveying and that's not how you feel, but that's a child's interpretation of your behavior, of your behavior, because in the morning you'll yell or shout or spank or grab them and drag them like, go now kid, let's get your butt to bed or, you know, and so they're like, Oh, bedtime means that just, I don't have a good relationship with my dad. There's not love or connection or all these things that I need are being met during this time because.

parents have some agenda or whatever. Again, they're not cognitively understand this. You have to be the mature one here. And you have to be the aware when the cognizant one walk through like, Oh, wait a minute. As the parent or as the spouse, I have to totally reframe this thing. I've got to approach it completely differently and figure out a way to still get the results we need.

while meeting the needs. Man, this one's gigantic. This will change your life and your family. It's hard to emphasize that enough that it will change your life and your family. This will transform your entire family dynamic. I mean, this kind of stuff is generational.

Because you can start passing on these things and your kids grow up with these healthy frameworks and deposits and their needs being met. Again, I don't know how to emphasize enough. If the needs are being met, everything works better. Right. Just to kind of expand on that a little bit of how it has a generational effect, our teens already notice this when they see other parents parenting.

they're already aware of like, well, we noticed this was happening, this was going on, and we're like, why didn't they just, do, do, do, do, meet this need, blah, blah, blah. They already make those comments to me, and this is as teenagers. So, it does have this power of being able to reframe the way you look at the world and interactions, especially parent -child interactions and things like that.

Rachel Denning (01:03:56.493)
And that will have a generational effect on your family. And then it'll affect your life because then you can start seeing this everywhere. You can notice if you're out and about in society and a stranger or somebody you're interacting with or in business is off, you'll start thinking, man, I wonder what...

need isn't being met here and why they behave this way. And you start to see people with compassion and grace and you can start approaching even a business transaction with a human need being addressed and the transaction goes smoother because it's two people with their needs met like interacting. It's incredible. It's absolutely incredible.

So, man, you guys share this episode, share it with friends, family, colleagues, leave a review for it. Like, get this out there. This is massive because we're all human beings. We all have fundamental needs and not being met. I wanna also emphasize one more thing. It's not gonna be episodic, meaning you're like, oh, okay, well, I did it. I checked the box. I took that kid, we went on a date or went and did something. Okay, whew, done. It doesn't work like that.

and it's not automatic and it doesn't happen by default. It has to be deliberate and intentional. It has to be in, I was gonna say it has to be in specific situations, but it has to actually be in all situations. You can't, because of what we were just saying this minute ago, I can't just do it in one setting, make deposits, and then the other setting, ignore deposits. Because it's so incongruent.

Which is a very good point because I think sometimes that's when parents are trying to figure this out and they're like, why isn't this working? It works here but it doesn't work there. I think this is one of the reasons is that parents have this sort of incongruence and children notice it, they pick up on it and they're like we're talking about before, in this situation my parents behave like this. In this situation my parents behave like this. In this situation my parents behave like this. They're noticing all of these different sorts of behavior.

Rachel Denning (01:06:11.247)
is specifically related to how they are treated, because that's really what they care about. This is how I am treated in these different situations, and so that's why you get different behavior in all these different situations. And one of the things we had to learn how to do, which again, we still don't do this perfectly, but we had to learn how to do this because of our unique lifestyle, is we had to learn how to be congruent parents, parenters, we had to parent congruently in lots of different situations.

situations because our life included so many different situations. We're at a bus station, we're at a train station, we're at an airport, we're in Airbnbs, we're in hotels, we're in restaurants, we're in all of these places all of the time.

And so the parenting had to be congruent so that the behavior was predictable and expected in all of these places. And so, you know, because when I was a new parent, I remember feeling like, well, I don't really have any control over my children when we go here or we go there or, and I've still felt like that at times over the years. And it depends on everything else that's going on in life, of course, but if you can learn to get that congruence across all of those different domains, that's,

when you have this really flowing relationship that can maintain that no matter where you're at, right? And of course that gets better over time, that gets better with each child depending on the deposits they have.

But that's kind of where it's magic. Yeah, and you get the cooperation, you get the good attitudes, you get the helpfulness. So when things are rough or are off or unexpected or failures or mistakes or setbacks, they're like, no, we're good. We'll roll with it. And it just smooths right over. Whereas if you're inconsistent, let's say you make a real concerted effort now to make deposits in the morning.

Rachel Denning (01:08:05.549)
but then still having behavior problems in the evening routine, that's where you have to look at yourself and say, well, am I still acting like a tyrant or a dictator at night?

Because you're like, look, I'm making all this effort. I'm making all these deposits. I did all these good things for you in the morning. Why isn't your behavior changing? And your morning deposits don't carry over to the nighttime. Exactly. It doesn't work like that. So you just have to be making deposits. Now, some of you are thinking, and you've been listening this whole time, thinking, this sounds exhausting. This is way too much work. It's so much work. Well. Yeah. Yep. So is having misbehavior. It's way worse. Yeah, you think this is hard. You should try dealing with misbehavior for their whole childhood.

That's brutal. So look at, and again, it's not just time, because I've had multiple people in the last few weeks just say, well, I'm giving them a lot of time. I'm like, that's great, but that's insufficient. It has to be more than that.

And it has to be what they value. You might think if you put aside some time and go do something with them that you're making a deposit. They may not care. That may not be a deposit at all because yeah, it's great. They'll do it, but they don't really care about that. What they care about is the thing they ask you for. They ask you for this thing and you're not doing it. That's a withdrawal. No matter how you view it, in their mind, it's a withdrawal because they asked for it and you didn't give it to them.

And we're not talking about spoiling your kids, obviously. And two points there. It has to be on their scoreboard. So it has to count for them, right? So you're trying to get points on their scoreboard, not yours. And two, it has to be meeting needs. Sometimes adults and children will ask for things that just seem fun or they're fun and frivolous. And they're like, I want this, I want this, I want this. And like, okay, if I do it, this is a deposit. No, it's not. Or it might be a small deposit, but it's actually not meeting a fundamental need. If the need is to fill.

Rachel Denning (01:10:02.799)
valued and loved and appreciated and cherished and safe and whole. All these fundamental needs. But what you're doing, all the things you're doing, don't meet any of those needs. You're spending time together, you're doing all these things, but it's not meeting needs. Then it's like feeding them just...

caught in candy. It's just empty calories. You're just, you're given plates and bowls full of rice and there's no nutritional value there. And so you're like, man, the behavior is weird. I'm doing all this stuff and the behavior is still off. It's because you're not meeting needs. You're not giving them any emotional nutrition. Exactly. You're not nourishing anything. You just have full bellies and empty calories, right? So the deposits have to be on their scoreboard and meeting fundamental human needs.

And if you can figure out that formula, that recipe, man, it's amazing. It's absolutely amazing. So work on this. Think about it, write about it, be extremely observant about it. Talk to your spouse about it. Talk to your older kids about it. Just work through this whole framework and.

meet those needs regularly and consistently. And then again, like we emphasize so much here, the natural state is joy, happiness, peace, contentment, love, and man, family knife, family life is so awesome. When all of our needs are being met. So that that has to be the fundamental thing. You're not you're not addressing the effect. You're not managing symptoms.

you're focusing on healing and addressing the cause. Okay, love you guys. Have a fantastic day. Go meet some needs. Reach upward.