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Rachel Denning (00:11.566)
has been conditioned by society when it comes to things such as how to behave and what to care about. That's not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, social conditioning can be very positive. Caring what other people think or how others view us helps us to be law -abiding citizens, which keeps order and civility in communities and nations.

But sometimes social conditioning can cause us to believe and behave in ways that are detrimental to our own well -being. Social conditioning can limit our own growth and development. However, it takes a lot of wisdom and experience to discern what aspects of social conditioning we should disregard and which we should keep. We have to learn how to effectively break the rules of society in a way that creates something even better. This is where greatness happens.

But in order for greatness to emerge, there has to be times when you literally do not give a crap what other people think or say about you. Caring too much holds you back. Listen to this episode now to learn how to appropriately stop caring about what other people think about you.

This episode is sponsored by the Extraordinary Family Life Formula. Meet live on Zoom every month with Greg and me to discuss powerful tools for creating your extraordinary family life. Plus, get complete access to all of our past recordings, coaching sessions, workshops, and courses on everything from marriage to parenting.

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Rachel Denning (02:04.078)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. We are your hosts, Greg and Rachel Denning. Today, we are gonna talk about not caring and how sometimes you should strategically not care. And hopefully some of you are like, what? What are you saying? This might hit some triggers or strike some chords and I...

That's the point we want it to and this is going to be, I don't know if controversial will be the right word I'm looking for, but we specifically want to hit some things that might stir up some of these ideas we have around how things are quote, supposed to be and how you and I are supposed to be. It's because of social conditioning, which is what we're going to talk about today.

Which isn't necessarily a negative thing. It has its place, for sure. Absolutely. Otherwise, there would just be utter chaos in every society. Right. We would be an uncivil society. So there is social conditioning in every society, whether we're aware of it or not. And most people in their society are unaware that they're being conditioned. Or that they are conditioned. It's the expectations, the kind of...

The social norms. The norms, it's all the stuff that's either spoken or unspoken, but everybody that grows up in that society just is like, oh, you don't do this, you do do that. These expectations and kind of rules. And maybe they're written and maybe they're not. They're often not. And they are, they can be good for structure. But then at some point, they're also quite limiting. And some of them just become silly and absurd. And they actually hold you back.

from becoming your best self. Now it takes a lot of wisdom and experience to know which ones to kind of break away from and when. Yeah, when to disregard the rules. And I think that that's true in any discipline. I mean, great writers, great musicians. Chefs. Chefs, they're all good at breaking the rules.

Rachel Denning (04:27.918)
But they only do that once they know the rules. Once you firmly know the rules of writing and you know the rules of music or the rules of cooking, then you're able to break the rules in a way that creates something even better, something more magical. And that's where great writing happens and great music happens. But you have to know and understand and have a foundation of the rules first. And respect them even. Yeah, and respect the rules. Have a respect for them. Before you can then effectively break them.

So in some ways this is similar because we're not talking about being some sort of...

jerk. Yeah, that's like you don't care. We all know that person that just literally does not care about anything or anyone. Yeah, like kiss off. Just deeply selfish and then yeah, they're not they're numb or they're not feeling they're just you know who we're talking about. You could probably name a few in your little community. Right. And that's definitely.

not what we're talking about. We're talking about caring, but when needed, not caring. And to be like disregarding. I could care less about your opinion. There's got to be times and we'll get into this in specifics and when and why and how, but there has to be times when you literally do not give a crap what other people think or say. And it might be certain people or certain situations. Or yeah, if they mistreat you like so what? Like,

There's a point, I mean, maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but there's a point when doing that too much holds you back. Wait, wait, I'm confused. Doing what too much? Caring. Caring too much about too many people and too many things, it holds you back a lot. Yes. And we are speaking from experience here because man, we used to care so much.

Rachel Denning (06:32.43)
And it was all built on this idea of I wanted to be such a good person. And I was so driven. And specifically, we're Christian, and I wanted to be Christ -like. And in my mind, I had this idea of the Christ -like person is just always so nice to everyone and cares what everyone thinks and feels. Right.

And I think we have this idea that if we were good people and were doing good things, that people would like us and they would agree with us and they would they would have nice things to say about us. And right. If you're if you're genuinely trying so hard to be good and do good, why would anyone say anything mean to you? Right. And we were rudely awakened from that bogus reality. We're going to specifically address a concern of a coaching client, but we're.

In our own personal experience, I think we began to come face to face with this when we started to live a different lifestyle. First of all, that's where it started. We started to live a different lifestyle, and we received criticism from even family members and friends. And those of you who've done anything unconventional know what we're talking about. As soon as you start to suggest that you're going to step off the path, all you have to do is turn your head a little bit and like, what's over here? And the people around you will be like, you what?

Who do you think you are? And they just let you have it. So that happens. Then we started to live this travel lifestyle, and I started blogging about it. And I cried a lot over the comments that we would get the me. From total strangers. People would go out of their way to say really, really mean things. Yes. We got a lot of nice comments. And I would say a majority of them were actually nice and supportive. But the way.

What's crazy is that even with that, with the majority of them being nice, the few that were mean and vicious were still so devastating. I would cry over these people saying these horrible things about what a terrible parent I was and how I was ruining my kids and all of these things. And so we had to start not caring. Why? Why did we have to? Oh, it was for our own sanity.

Rachel Denning (08:59.406)
It was for our own benefit. And? I can't read your mind. What? Come on, babe. Read my mind. I don't know. I want you to say what I'm thinking. I don't know what you're thinking. Just say it. Oh, yes, for our own sanity. So we didn't have to cry so much. Right. Again. But also, had we listened and acquiesced to these opinions that...

came up often, we wouldn't have pursued our life path. Well, exactly. I think that happens tragically more often than we would like to admit. Not for us specifically anymore, but just people in general. We often stop pursuing dreams or goals or passions or potential because we care too much about what others are saying and it hurts. And what they think. And...

So because you're caring, because you're nice, because you're trying so hard to be a good person and to get along with people, you're concerned about what they think, they say something, and then you're just like, ugh, okay. And you're back away. You pull back. Right. And which seems absurd if the comments are coming from strangers, but they still affect us.

Now, I do also want to say on the other side of that, yeah, it can be a positive thing. And we still will do this. It's not that we don't get comments like this anymore. We do. But we've learned how to use them effectively. Because when you get a comment from someone, you shouldn't automatically discount it or, you know, in this, I don't care, just whatever. You should analyze it. You should evaluate it and say, hmm, are they correct? Do they have a valid point here?

And it's good to go through that process of thinking, hmm, I wonder if their point is valid and if I'm somehow off and use it to correct or improve your behavior. But honestly asking like, am I missing something? Yeah. Are people saying this because I am missing something? Right. But then if because you know more of the information than they do, if you come back to the conclusion of, no, I'm actually headed in the direction I'm supposed to be headed based off of everything else I know.

Rachel Denning (11:19.822)
then that's when you can be like, yeah, you're off in your thinking, right? You're the one who's not seeing it clearly here. I know more of what's happening in my own life. So it is good to have that self -evaluation. That is the value of other people's opinions, right, in the right time and right place. Yeah, so there is a place for this in society where if you're about to just go off the cliff ignorantly, people in society are like, hey, what are you?

What are you doing? What's going on? Oh, you're about to make a decision. And at that point, yeah, I've always, this is interesting. Whenever I've wanted to talk about being unconventional or nonconformist or kind of following your own path, I've always had this hesitancy because I know there's a small group of society that they'll take this and be like, yeah, I'm not listening anymore. And they'll run their lives right into destruction. Saying, I don't care what other people think. You guys are idiots. I just want to live my life. And then they literally run right.

into a train wreck and just, they crashed their life. So there's always been that hesitancy. I'm like, okay, I'm not talking to you if you're uneducated and foolish and making horrible decisions that will destroy your life and other people's. It's like, this is where you're really trying to level up. You're really trying to live an extraordinary life. You've, you're done your homework. You know there's a different path for you. That's also a small group.

So I guess we're talking to that small group. We're talking to a small group, this small percentage of people who want to do something extraordinary. They're just not okay with an ordinary existence. Well, and as you were saying this, I'm thinking of a conversation we just had the other day with our kids that all of these frameworks in society that we have, the conventions, have a valid place because they provide safety for...

majority of the population. Like if you follow these basic things, you're at least going to be able to survive in society. You're going to be able to get a job. You're going to be able to provide for yourself and your family. You're going to be able to, you know, do the basic things. You can function. You can function. And that is the point. And so, yeah, there are some people either because they're young and inexperienced or just older and inexperienced that...

Rachel Denning (13:40.782)
that need to follow those conventions. They need to care about what other people think because people are there providing feedback of like, actually you're making a big mistake here. You're going in the wrong direction. You're not listening and you're not, you're listening but you're getting half of the story and it's actually producing the wrong outcomes. And that individuals...

Concern about what others think will actually be a catalyst for good things It'll keep them in line where otherwise they might self -destruct well, right because if that individual Stops caring what other people think because they're quote -unquote following this unconventional path. They're actually taking their life Yeah, yeah, so it's we're not talking to that small group of people who are on a path of self -destruction So that's kind of the warning side of this approach now to go I guess to the other side and this

comes specifically from a coaching client and they have a very specific question that kind of sparked this conversation we're having today that is directly related to their in -laws. But this could be the case with any, you know, your church or your neighbors or your friends, you know, like how do I handle this? Interestingly, now it could even be in these online communities that we...

we belong to where it used to be. My Twitter followers, my Facebook friends. What a fascinating time we live in. It used to be like just your immediate kind of neighbors were your community and that's really the people you communicate with. But now we can have community and even close relationships and a lot of direct influence in our lives from people that live all over the planet and we're in some kind of group. And we start to care about what they think. Right exactly. And we're...

adding weight to what they say. And so this principle will play out in all kinds of different areas of our lives. Right. Okay, so essentially the question was saying, you know, I drive by my in -laws daily because they live nearby and I always wave. They never wave back. Probably due to things my spouse has shared with them. This weekend, I was waving and the in -law...

Rachel Denning (16:02.126)
was walking the opposite direction, started to lift their arm to wave and then put it back down. Clearly there's an issue and it's out of my control. But how do I keep from letting it bother me? It hurts me deeply. OK? Great question. A very, in a way, typical interaction with people who.

aren't agreeing with you. They're not viewing you as... Or aren't agreeable. Or, that too, are generally not agreeable. Clearly there's something here... We happen to know some details about this one and from what we understand, not agreeable people. Which is part of it. Sometimes there are people that are just not agreeable. Now sometimes people just don't agree with you for whatever reason. They don't agree with something you said, something you did.

done, something you've not done, chosen to do, chosen to not do, who knows? There's lots of reasons. This is important though because it could be for any number of reasons. Maybe you've made some terrible mistakes. Maybe you failed. Maybe there was... That's all of us. We've all done that. Well, but it's what the reason why people do it. Because you maybe you made a big, big mistake and somebody around you just won't let go of something you did wrong. Maybe you did do something.

But then it's on the far other side too, is maybe you haven't done anything wrong, but you just choose to live a different way. And people despise you because of that or reject you. Society kind of rejects you or at least that community or that individual person because you're different. Not that you've done anything wrong, but that you're different. Some people, they just do it because it's them and it's not you. So I guess I wanted to emphasize that point. It could be any number.

of reasons why people.

Rachel Denning (17:57.582)
that way towards you. Right and like they're pointing out that's not within our control. We don't have control over that. We don't have control over how people view us, their opinions about our choices, how they treat us. That is completely outside of our control. Now then the question is well what do I do about it because it bothers me and that's kind of how this came up is because we're like stop caring.

And when you say that, even me, I'm still like, ah. Again, I think because of the social conditioning, my desire is to be a nice, good person. And you think, well, they're family. I should care. Or they're human beings. I should care. Yeah, it's that whole idea about being nice or being good. We think, I think now erroneously, we think that we should always be nice and always be.

Kind, there is, I don't know if I'd bring the word, well, I don't know, I'm still working through this one. Should we always be kind? Is there a time when we should not be kind? I don't know, that could be a whole, we could talk about that for a long time. It depends on how you define it. But what you were saying before we started was, first of all, I said, I would just stop waving, that's me. I'd be like, whatever.

I'm not waving at you anymore. Like, I don't care. I've tried. You don't want to wave back. Okay, fine. I'm not waving anymore. And I would just not wave. And I would stop caring about it. And I would start to find it kind of funny and hilarious. So you would drive past, you wouldn't wave, and they wouldn't wave back, and you wouldn't care. Would you let it get to you? I could see that it might get to me, but I would probably laugh about it and then dismiss it. Not give it time.

It's so ridiculous. I'm asking because I want to walk through... I would psychoanalyze it because I like psychoanalyzing. Exactly. You would totally psychoanalyze the whole thing, come to a conclusion, and then be resolved about it. Yes. I want to emphasize the point because some of us give a lot of mental and emotional real estate and time. Right. We will give hours, days, weeks, months, years to things that honestly are quite trivial.

Rachel Denning (20:25.23)
but we'll give it tons of mental, emotional real estate. Right. Well, okay. This point about psychoanalyzing, I think is really important because when we started getting comments and things that were vicious or rude, one of the ways we settled it was, and part of it came from Wayne Dyer. He said, someone else's opinion of you, well, first of all, it's none of your business, but that it's a reflection of where they are, not of where you are.

Maybe it was him that said that. Yeah, it was two separate quotes. So one of them he says, other people's opinions are none of my business. And he said, good or bad, other people's opinions of me are none of my business. I'm like, whoa, that's worth thinking about for a long time. It's pretty profound. Then another time he said, he said, our judgments of others do not define them, they define us. Exactly. By being judges. So if I think, oh, that person's like that, it doesn't mean they're like that. It means I have to go around judging people.

Well, and it also means that if someone is behaving or acting in a way or saying certain things, that is merely a reflection of their state and way of being. In that moment. It's not really a reflection of you. It's a reflection of where they are mentally, emotionally, spiritually, socially, psychologically. Because of where they are, who they are, that's why they behave in that way.

Not necessarily in any way. Yes, there is a small connection to you, but it's more a reflection of them than it is of you. So if they don't wave at you for whatever reason, well, that's because of their issues more than it is because of your issues, if that makes sense. And so that was something by psycho analyzing things like that in comments when people left comments and they, we have an adopted daughter who's black. I remember them leaving racist comments on our blog posts.

That's a reflection of them and where they are. It's not a reflection of me. And when I'm able to psychoanalyze that and understand that, wow, that's where that person is. That's why they said those things. It helps me better settle it and resolve it because I'm like, yeah, that's about them. It has nothing to do with me. Unless, and this is why the analysis is important, unless you start thinking like, wait a minute, could I have done something to offend this person?

Rachel Denning (22:51.502)
Is my behavior abrasive? Am I unpleasant? Have I done something to really cause harm? And is there something that then I can do better or repair? Can I make restitution? So you're analyzing and - The self analysis comes in. And so you get to it and like, okay, is there something I need to do to make this better? And you might often, very often find like, yeah, man, I was rude. I did something wrong and I really need to apologize. I need to try my best to make it right. That may be the case. If it is, try to make it right.

Then if they still don't respond. Or if it's not the case. Or if it's not the case, then either way you're like, there's no obligation there. And I used to feel the obligation. Like, no, I need to. Now there's no obligation. Nothing. So like, I don't care. I honestly do not give a crap about that at all. And I'm not going to give it any thought or real estate or space or anything. Right. But I guess I do want to kind of emphasize this to bring on the point.

we're not going to give it anymore after we have gone through that process because we do analyze. We analyze our side and we analyze their side and then we say, okay, this is where it's at from my best observations and conclusions, this is where it stands. There's nothing more I can do about it because my course of action is right as far as I can tell. So therefore I'm not going to care anymore.

And this all has to be built in some kind of hierarchy too, which is extremely important. I really want to emphasize this point. It has to be built in the hierarchy. Because if you go around giving time and attention and analysis and thought to every person you could possibly interact with. The stranger who cuts you off in traffic. You will spend your whole life, well, I better analyze that and think.

there's anything I've done, you'll go through your, you'll literally spend your whole life worrying about what people think and if you should care and well maybe there was something I did and I'll go fix it and make it right with every last person. You're like, no, no, no, no. We're talking about people that actually matter in your life and that's gonna be a much smaller number than you think or hope. Some of us hope to have this gigantic number of important people in our lives. That's just not the case. It's gonna be a very, very small number of the people who are prioritized in your life.

Rachel Denning (25:10.158)
they get your time and attention. And I want to drive this home, because if you, in an attempt to be a good, nice person, are giving tons of time and attention to strangers or to acquaintances, by saying yes to them, you are necessarily saying no to the more important people in your life. Yes. And we see this too often. I see people with the best of intentions trying so hard to be good people, totally neglecting their most important relationships.

to help acquaintances or strangers. Exactly. To reach out to them, to give them emotional, mental, time and space and energy and resources. I'm like, you don't have exhaustible resources or time. Inexhaustible, I mean. Right. And so you're out there like, you're trying so hard to be good, to be Christian, or to be whatever, and you're doing it to the neglect of the most important people in your life. So this has to, it absolutely must be built on a hierarchy.

And people that are lower in the hierarchy get no time at all, period, zero, zilch, nothing. Which I think is another piece of this not caring bit because you're right, all of us only have a certain amount of time to really care about the people that matter most. And so because of this hierarchy that does exist, we have to not care about other certain people, those people who aren't in that inner circle, so to speak.

You just don't have the energy or the time to care about them. And so that's why you have to practice not caring. The other thing, coming back to what you would do, because I talked about how I would just stop waving and not care. Well, I would psychoanalyze them and then not care. And Rachel, I guess this is a good example. Rachel, you're more introverted. Yes. And more, I mean, you just are comfortable in your space and you alone.

Once in a while we get to come into your space. You come into my space all the time, babe. I know, because I have to. I want to be in your space. But you're comfortable alone. And I guess as a simplistic generalization, you're very introverted. And so you're not outward towards others. Yes. Which does make my not caring easier. Easier, because you're just like, no. I'm also lowering compassion on the big five personality scale. So that takes a role.

Rachel Denning (27:34.926)
I have to make more of an effort to care than to not care, to be honest. Right. But you have to potentially be like, oh, there's other people I should notice. I should care about them. I know for some people this is definitely harder to do. It's more of a challenge. But I think our point here is that it is something that should be cultivated in certain circumstances and situations. You need to cultivate this.

quote unquote, lack of compassion. So some of you listening will be maybe more in your camp, Rachel, where they're just like, yeah, I don't have an issue not caring what other people think. And to you, wow, fantastic. Really analyze that thing through. It's like this topic made me like, yep, I don't care. But some of you listening, this is going to be really, really challenging for you because you are caring either. You care too much. From.

upbringing thoughts, ideas, whatever conceptual philosophy you have, what it means to be a good person, whatever that is, you care too much. And I got into that camp of caring too much. And so, but I've pulled back, I learned to bring that back. But as Rachel was like, we're done, I'm not gonna wave and I'm not gonna care. And I thought, man, me either, I'm not gonna care at all, I'm gonna laugh. Like I would giggle every time, but I would still keep waving. Yeah.

And it was not, this is important here, not out of some kind of social expectation or some kind of duty. It's not this like, I don't wave, I'm not a good person. Obligation, I should wave because they're my in -laws and I need to wave at them. Or whatever. I have to, yeah, I love the obligation. You think it's some kind of obligation. Like, no, it's not at all. I would keep waving just because that's the kind of person I want to be. Knowing full well, like they're not going to wave back. I just keep on waving. Keep on smiling. I can wave and roll out the window. Great to see you, mom! Woo!

And just and I keep doing it and whatever they flip me off be like you're number one Yes, and and what like I'm just gonna keep doing it and not caring and then go on with my day Yeah, and not not let it disturb my day Right and and you would still psychoanalyze them we would discuss it together and talk about it and laugh about it and You because you kind of have this

Rachel Denning (29:57.742)
like understanding of people and where they're coming from and why they do the things they do and what's causing their behaviors. And because of that understanding, I think if you had an obligation, I think you would fill this obligation to keep waving because you want to help them. You want to help them stop being miserable people. And so you're trying to wave and like break them out of their patterns of misery. And I would genuinely, cause I do, I genuinely, so this isn't like I'm not.

when we say don't care, it's not like you're not feeling and like you could just as likely run them over with your car as not wave, right? It's not that. I honestly, I feel bad for people that are miserable. And we know people, we know lots and lots of people that are totally miserable. We know lots of miserable people. And so I keep waving, but I'd also be like, man, I feel sorry for them, man, if they're miserable. No, if they just don't like me, okay, great, whatever, I don't care. I'm not gonna feel bad for them and I hope they don't feel bad and I hope they don't.

waste any of their time not liking me. Like, that's a waste of your time to not like me, dude, because I don't care, right? And I'm not a prioritized person in your life. So it's not like you don't have feelings. Or empathy or understanding. But it's to a point. I'm not going to sacrifice anything in my personal development and progress and the things, my family, all of this good stuff. You're not going to.

And this even sounds bad saying this, you're not going to waste it on somebody. Like you're like, they're human beings too. Yes, of course they are. Well, I think the point is, because in the question it's like, what do I do about this? Because it bothers me, it hurts. I think ultimately the point is, it's out of your control and you're trying to focus on how you can feel.

positive emotions, which I know is exact a hundred percent the case for you and me. Our entire goal and mission and purpose involves maintaining generating and maintaining consistent positive emotion. Because when we do that, we have the energy, the motivation, the enthusiasm, the ability to live our lives to the fullest. If we're constantly feeling hurt or bad or sad or negative or upset because of everything that goes on in our lives.

Rachel Denning (32:20.622)
Well, then we lose power to change and control and direct our lives. And so that's one of the main motivations, I guess, for this quote unquote not caring. It's because ultimately we are choosing the emotions that we're gonna have and that's not one of them. Right. Not that, and just to clarify, not that we don't feel negative emotions when it's appropriate to do so. Right. Well, obviously we have this full spectrum of emotion, but why it...

Don't feel them unnecessarily, is what we're saying. And feel more of the positive ones as much as possible because they, emotions are the powerhouse of our lives. Emotions are what give us the ability to interact with our spouse and have a good relationship with our spouse, to have good relationships with our children. It helps us to make progress on our business, to get things done at home. Like it's all positive emotion.

that helps us do those things. And so if we're not very conscious and deliberate about the positive emotions, well, all the emotions, and we're not replacing the negative ones with positive as much as possible, then we lose that power to be a creative force in our own lives. Absolutely. So I want to kind of go deeper with this feeling bad about it, because there's a lot there. I know for me,

People used to say things to me or do something, even something as small as, I remember, this was years ago when I was in university, somebody cut me off. I remember even later that, it was in the morning, and later that night, I was still bothered by it. That's when you had your redheaded temper. Yeah, I let it disturb my whole day. And so my class times, interactions with others, all that stuff was disrupted. It wasn't what it could have been, because I was bothered about it.

And I know that some of you, some of you like it comes and goes, no big deal. Some of you, I know you hold onto things for days or weeks or months or years. Like you'll carry it over. And some of you have children that have done this. Our kids have done this. It's funny, they get upset about something and like two days later, they're still like, but this happened. You're like, man, let it go. And we get it caught in there and we hold onto it. And that's how people will hold onto grudges.

Rachel Denning (34:43.31)
resentment for a long long time especially people who are very agreeable and Very nice and just sweet and kind they actually become some of the most resentful people on the planet Mm -hmm because they let those things happen. They don't say anything. They don't stand up for themselves They don't have a little bit of disagreeableness Yeah, and so they become super resentful and they harbor that and then man it just becomes this Toxin inside of them that stays there for a long time. So I want to

Well, I was just going to emphasize that because Jordan Peterson has talked about that specifically that that is the downside of being highly agreeable is that it often leads to resentment because you're so agreeable. You go along with people, you do what other people want to do and you end up then resenting mostly, you know, other people, but yourself as well for not ever standing up for what you want to do or holding your ground for things. And so, yeah, we have to be very careful.

especially if you're high in agreeableness and compassion, that that doesn't lead to becoming a resentful person. Right. So if you're feeling bad about what other people think or do, try to... This is where the psychoanalysis comes in, but for yourself. Like, why do you feel bad? What meaning are you giving it? What thought, what belief?

And this could go so many different directions. Some of them you might think, well, that's a reflection on my worth as a being. Or it might hurt other people think poorly of you. And that's just a reality. People, I don't care who you are, there are going to be people who think poorly of you. Like just settle that out. And you can't give that any weight or credence or.

or life space, there are going to be people who think poorly of you. Just done. Now, if you deserve that, and it's more common than not, if it's not the random person, but like a lot of people think poorly of you, you need to like look at your life. You need to make some changes. You need to make some changes. Because if it's clearly targeted and it's deserving, like you got to level up, man. You got to fix that stuff. But if you are genuinely striving and improving and...

Rachel Denning (37:09.806)
just becoming a superb human being, even in the attempt to pursue your own potential greatness, people are not gonna like you and they're gonna think poorly of you. What is it that bothers you? Is it your reputation? Is it your image? Is it some kind of misplaced belief that everyone needs to think well of you? Which we had that early on. And early on I know that it was also tied to...

our own insecurities about what we were doing. We were pursuing a very unconventional lifestyle path. We wanted to travel full -time with a family and it was very out there. And I think we were questioning ourselves. Like, are we crazy? Are we doing something that's insane or detrimental? And so I think that was a part of it. We've become more sure of that over the time.

And so our confidence has grown. And as a result, it's easier for us to not care about what other people say because we have the confidence to say, no, I'm secure in the path we've chosen. I know it's a good path for us. And so that helps a lot. So a lot of times it is tied to insecurity. If you're questioning your own worth, if you're questioning your own choices, then naturally when other people...

discount you or treat you in a way that's not supportive, then that just adds to that feeling of unworthiness that you already have. So it requires a lot of this soul searching to say, okay, what am I doing and where am I off and how can I fix it and where can I get firm so that I don't have to feel blown about by everyone's opinion. But I'm glad you brought that up.

because this requires, it actually requires a significant amount of research and homework and understanding. Because some of your ideas and your choices might actually be crazy and like they're off. You should be listening because that's crazy. But then there's other ones that are like, it seems crazy, but it's only crazy to what we call the herd.

Rachel Denning (39:31.022)
And these great thinkers, they called it the unthinking herd. Where if it's going against the masses, and the inside joke in our family is that the M is usually silent. If you're going against the masses, sometimes they bellow and squawk and criticize simply because it's different. It makes them uncomfortable. It threatens their...

position their choices. They feel threatened by you deciding to chase your dreams and goals when they've settled for it. Exactly. And then what they're doing is they're projecting their fears and their insecurities and the pain of settling for less. They project that on you. Yeah. And who do you think you are to go do that and chase that? But you have to know that what you're doing is right for you and that it's been, for the most part, been done by others.

proven to work out well and that you're actually doing it right. Because I could pursue this path, and we've done this, and we see people do it like, no, I'm taking the unconventional path, but then we don't do it well. We had this conversation with our kids in our devotional, I think it was yesterday morning, in our family devotional, we talked about if you leave the conventional path to follow this, the unconventional path, what you could call this higher path.

you have to do it well, or you're actually setting yourself up for some real trouble. It's actually more dangerous if you don't do well. If you've got to walk away from society, so to speak. And the safety nets that are there, because convention is a safety net. Right, you're right. Exactly right. There's built -in systems and structures scaffolding there to help you. If you decide to walk away from that, which you can, you have to do what's required. So the easiest example to illustrate this is if you want to start your own business. You're like, no, I'm...

Nah, I'm done with corporate world, I'm done with working for other people and having a boss, I'm done with the nine to five and punching time clock and being told what to do. I want to do my own thing. Well, that requires, it actually requires more of you than the commission. You have to do way more. In fact, our 18 year old shared a meme that went along with this topic because he's like, I was tired of the nine to five and so I started my own business. Now I work 24 seven. And we're like, yeah, in a lot of ways.

Rachel Denning (41:55.79)
That's true. Exactly. And I was sick of being paid so little, now I work for free. Yeah, exactly. Which is how it often starts out. It does. The unconventional path starts out like that. And it looks crazy. It looks insane. But you have to be willing to do the work. So if I take that path and then I don't do the work, I am insane. You are insane. But if you do it well and consistently and you persist, then you reap the rewards and then the payoffs.

are 100 times what they would be on the conventional path. And the greatest irony is that people will still criticize you even when you have results. It's hilarious. My family, my extended family still does it. We just heard some new stuff. And it's just, it's like we went on very conventional. They were very vocal about our crazy ideas. And then it totally worked out. Amazing results. And they're still critical.

of what we're doing. Now they criticize our results. Before it was like criticizing our methods, now they criticize our results. And it's like, okay, whatever. I just kind of giggle. I'm doing my thing, because I know what we want, I know it works best for our family, and I know it's getting amazing results. We get to do things that very few people ever get to experience, because we've paid a price. Yeah. So back when you were talking about how...

the crowd and their opinions can be the safety net of protecting you from say falling off a cliff or something like that. I kind of had this image in my mind of the unconventional people, the dreamers, the visionaries, because like we've been talking about, they also can look crazy. They can look like they're going into danger. And yet if you are a visionary and you see,

something that other people don't see, well that is how goals and dreams are achieved. That is how the world is changed by the people who are the visionaries. And then I was, I also thought of this other quote or something, I don't even remember where it came from, but it's something about, to those who do not hear the music, the dancers seem crazy. And when you're pursuing your own path, you look like you're crazy.

Rachel Denning (44:18.958)
to a lot of people, they don't hear the music you hear. And so they look at you and you're dancing, you know, symbolically speaking, and they think you just look like an idiot because what are you doing? And so a lot of times when we bump into these situations like this, we have to remember that they don't hear the music that we hear. And so we have to stop caring about what they think because they're not listening to the same song.

the marching to the beat of the strummer you hear. Now, you have to make sure you are not verifiably insane and you're the only one hearing some random drum beat, like you are crazy. So like get solid on that, get that foundation. But then if you're like, yeah, no, I hear it. And they're going to think you're crazy because you're dancing to something only you hear or only a few people hear. And I don't know if I can even state this strongly enough.

Those who pursue, even, let's just break it down to something so simple. They have found that people who are actively pursuing personal development, meaning you're just proactively trying to make yourself better, is less than 2%. That's, I mean, it's such a simple thing. So if you're pursuing any kind of personal growth, you're like actually setting goals.

You're trying to be a better person. You're working on yourself. You're getting education. You're doing business development. If you're trying actively to make your life better, you're already in 2%. That means 98 % of people are looking at you and going, hey, you're, well, that's something else. And a percentage of them would be like, dude, way to go. That's cool. That's admirable. I could never do that. What are you doing that for? That's crazy. And then a part of them would be like, you're nuts. What's wrong with you? Take it easy. Just enjoy life.

Right? And they want to call you back to mediocrity. So I still just, I'm just going to say, I just have a hard time understanding that or comprehending it. How can that even be possible? 2 % seems so wild. I just don't know how people live like that. They're not really living. They are. And I don't know why for me.

Rachel Denning (46:40.942)
I feel like I've always been this way and I guess I just don't understand it. I don't even comprehend that. Nor I. You and I, we could never settle for a mere mediocre existence because so much is possible. I think that's what fuels us and feeds us is like we know what's possible. We've already experienced like multiple lifetimes of adventure and memories and...

Just incredible things. And I feel like we're just getting started. Yeah, we're just getting started on all the possibilities. So we can never stop. We can never settle for just checking the boxes like most people do. I'm like, oh, we're here. Let's just take it easy. I'm like, oh, this is great. We have our little things. We get to watch Netflix every night. We've arrived. This is the best. We entertain ourselves to death and eat junk food and fast food and candy limitlessly. This is amazing. We can never go for that.

And so the way we choose to live, there's always gonna be criticism. And now we're totally comfortable with that. And we still analyze it, we still acknowledge it, and then often it gives us, it's really great content. It's like, this is great. We can do a podcast episode about this. This is fantastic. But the invitation is, so hopefully this is enough clarification on it so it doesn't make our statements sound bizarre. But the invitation is, when you know you have some certainty and people just,

are doing their own thing, experiencing their own thing, stop caring. Just literally stop caring. Don't let it disturb you. Don't let it bother you. Don't let it disrupt you. If they're going to do their thing and you're doing the best you can and they're doing their thing, literally just stop caring. You don't have to be bothered by it anymore. Well, I would say I would expand on that even a little bit more and say, perhaps when you face these...

criticisms or these disapproval, whatever you, however you want to term these experiences. Use them as a tool for analyzing, analyzing yourself, analyzing others, and then don't care and move ahead. Use it to help you get, like you said, grounded, more firmly grounded and confident in what you are doing. Or if necessary, change course, because that's going to happen too.

Rachel Denning (49:07.278)
Sometimes that criticism is going to be valid. And it's going to be saying, you're off course here. And so you course correct. And then criticism will actually solidify your position. Oh, absolutely. It does. Because some exactly. Sometimes people will criticize you and you'll be like, no, here's why, here's why, here's why, here's why. You're wrong. Not that you have to tell them, but in your own mind, you can like it builds your own position. And so it can be a good thing to solidify that position.

And then you can move forward saying, okay, I'm confident. Great, that's your opinion, but I don't care. It's a tool for clarity and refinement. And so you can use it and you could even pause at each moment and say, do I need to care about this? Should I care? And just quickly, you can process it really quickly, especially with practice. And you go through your hierarchy, you go through all this stuff, you're like, no, I've already thought through this. I'm really grounded in what I'm doing. And if they don't happen to agree, okay.

And to clarify, I guess what we're talking about with the, I think we've mentioned it. I just want to make clear here at the end that the not caring means you're not giving it negative emotional energy anymore. You're releasing that negative energy and returning to this positive energy and allowing them to have their opinions and their viewpoints, but it's not going to negatively affect you.

I mean, circles back, there's an awesome kid's book by Mac Lucado about the Wimics. Oh, right. You are special. And they would go around putting stickers on each other. Dots or stars. Dots or stars. So a star for the good, dots, whatever. And we do that as a society. He was really perceptive about that. And then there was this one Wimic that just none of the stars or circles, the dots, nothing stuck to her. That's what we're talking about. Like, she lived independent. And...

And the ideal is, you guys, that we go through life independent of the opinions of others. Because you're more settled, you're more centered, you're happier, you're more joyful, you're more capable, you're more confident, you're more competent. You're more capable of living well when you're not fettered and frustrated and distracted.

Rachel Denning (51:34.99)
by the opinions of other people. And so you're going along and you're trying to do your very best work. I guess I want to circle back to that quote by Wayne Dyer. He said, other people's opinions are none of my business. And then he said, my business is to do the work that God sent me here to do and do it in the absolute best way possible.

So if that's what we're going after, it's like, I'm here to live my mission, and my mission is a good thing. It's not detrimental to anyone, including myself and my family, people around me who live my mission, then that's your business. And that's your focus. And that's your power. And the world needs people that are lit up and powerful because they're living their lives not overly sensitive to what everyone else is saying around.

So there is a point of kind of breaking free from societal conditioning and the endless opinions of others, which has even been just exasperated now with the online world and climate and social media. Everybody's just sharing their opinions. You can't get caught up in that crap. And it's almost like, and you practice this, right? Practice it to the point where somebody can be like, I think your shirt is so ugly. Great, thanks.

Or you'll be like, yeah, well, I put on this morning, I'm like, this is kind of an ugly shirt. Like, whatever. It doesn't even matter. Or your message is stupid. Thanks, man. Appreciate that. That's great. You've gotten some Instagram comments like that. Yeah. They're just so dumb. Or they make comments about my hair. They make comments like, whatever. Or this is a dumb idea. You're so wrong. You're a loser. Like, great.

Like, whatever. You do actually like to respond, thank you. Yeah, thank you. You're the best. Yeah, there's one guy, he said something to me, and I'm like, thank you so much. And then he wrote back, he's like, I totally shocked him. Thanks for what? For sharing your opinion, for exposing yourself, being the billboard that you are, right? And whatever. Like, don't let it get to you if you shouldn't. Mm -hmm. So.

Rachel Denning (53:57.325)
in a very real way, some of you, some of you seriously need this. You really need to stop caring so much. And you just gotta kinda flip that switch of like, no. You know the metaphor of water off the duck's back, right? People splash you and it just rolls right off. And like you just keep on keeping on. Well, and to...

Rachel Denning (54:23.213)
I guess emphasize, I don't know if that's the right word, but I think for me, when I truly began to understand why the other person was doing what they're doing, this whole idea of psychoanalyzing them, that helped me a lot. Because once I understood why they would say the thing they said or do the thing they did, it made it, for one, it made it.

makes sense. And for my little logical brain that likes to make sense, I'm like, oh, now I get it. Because before that, it's kind of this cognitive dissonance. You're like, why would they say that? That doesn't make sense to me. Your only response is to take it personally. Yeah, your only response is to take it personally because you're like, oh, I must have done something. They must not like me. That's the only way this - Why would anyone say that otherwise? Right. That's the only way it makes sense. But when you can psychoanalyze and say, wow, it's because of this thing or this experience or their life.

their life history or whatever, there's a lot of reasons, but psychoanalyzing them helps me to understand them, which helps me to make sense of it, which also helps me to have more empathy. Because then you're switching it from taking it personally to actually putting it back on them, which helps you to have empathy. When you understand that they behave in the way they do because of the issues they have,

Now you can actually have empathy for them instead of feeling personally hurt or offended. So in that instance, you literally could care less about what they say and actually care more about them as people. From that phrase, a very, very common phrase you've heard before, hurt people hurt people. So people are hurting, they project that out. So they'll hurt people. And they behave in hurtful ways. Yeah. So they're doing hurtful things to you, but it's because they're hurting. Exactly. And that's it's...

It's so interesting when people lash out at me, I don't have to be hurt by it. I have boundaries that keep me safe and protected. I don't even have to be fazed by it. And I can stop and be like, oh man, they must really be hurting. You know what's interesting? Scared people scare people as well. If they're afraid, they want to project that fear on you. And if you don't know that and like, oh man, maybe I should be afraid. And like, no, it's like they're just, they're afraid.

Rachel Denning (56:44.365)
They're scared. You don't have to be scared because they're scared. You just have to understand they're scared. And so they're trying to scare you. They think they're doing it out of good intentions, right? Whatever it is. So excellent point. We have to understand where people are. Love it. OK, guys. Thanks for listening. If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, subscribe and you can leave a review. Connect with us on social media, Extraordinary Family Life, and World School Family, and Greg Denning. And share this. Share this with friends.

family and neighbors and colleagues and most importantly like spend some time thinking about this. See where this is common in your life and spend some time thinking and writing about it. You might hopefully during the Pazios you thought of specific instances where maybe you're like, yeah, I do that a lot with this thing. Maybe it's extended family. Maybe it's church group. Maybe it's organization work with maybe it's at work. And you're like, man, you get tons of weight to coworkers or whatever. And you're analyzing.

they're not even like that high up on the hierarchy and yet here I am giving them so much space in my life. So think through this, wear this as most applicable and then set some goals and even set some reminders. So I'd set some alerts on your calendar, set some alerts or alarms on your phone as reminders. So if for me, if it's like, man, at work, I keep getting caught up in this, I would set an alert right before I get to work. So if I have to be to work at eight, at 7 .55, I'm gonna have alarm go off to remind me of this principle.

so that I can practice it every day. I go in with this mindset of like, okay, I'm not gonna get disturbed by what they're saying. I'm gonna go in and just kind of be independent. I am independent of the opinions of others. Yep, boom. And so I said, and I'm gonna say that to myself. I'm gonna say it with meaning and feeling until it becomes this conviction. And I literally had to do this. This was a process I went through to rewrite my belief system, my identity, my philosophy, and I used that phrase. I am independent of the opinions of others. And I got to that point where I'm like, yeah.

I am and so I can go into a space and they can say their things they can do their things. I'm like, okay great. It's on you man. You own that and so but I'm but you get clear about where this affects you personally the most and then start reworking that whole system until you become your best self. All right. Love you guys. Thanks for listening. Reach out for it.