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Rachel Denning (00:10.83)
We received an email from a listener which said, I would like to be more confident, but my face turns red if I'm embarrassed, nervous, shy, afraid, or just talking with someone. Without that handicap, I know I would be more confident, but unfortunately, I let it stop me all too often. But I heard that Mr. Denning used to be really shy and his face would turn red anytime people would even ask him a question in class. I'm heading off to college soon and I'm a bit overwhelmed. I do the same thing. I'm generally an introverted person.

but I really enjoy talking with people and learning. I don't want to miss out because my face looks like a fire engine. We answer this question this episode and share our personal stories about being shy and introverted as children and teens. My face also turned red while talking to people. We discuss how we overcame these challenges and how gaining confidence can help you not only in college, but in your marriage and as a parent too. If you feel that you could use some more confidence in your life,

then you definitely want to listen to this strategy -filled episode. This episode has been sponsored by our own Helping Children to Develop Self -Control Workshop. If you want even more strategies and ideas on how to help your children develop this very important attribute consistently and well, then visit the link in the show notes to get access to this workshop. You can use the coupon code SELF to save 50%.

Rachel Denning (01:40.334)
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of the Extraordinary Family Life podcast. Today we're gonna talk about how to be more confident. Wow, I don't know if you have ever gotten so directly to the point about what the topic is. Well, it's because it's about confidence. Like, you gotta be like, boom. We're gonna talk about confidence. Here it is. And there's a difference between being confident in something and being confident in yourself. And there's a difference between being confident and acting like you're confident.

Which I'll throw this out so we don't forget. Sometimes when you see people exaggerating confidence, it's actually a facade to deep insecurities. And we try to overcompensate. It's a cover for like, I feel like a total charlatan here or what's that? What's that thing? The imposter syndrome, right? And so we try to put on this big show of confidence and, you know, wise people can see through it or eventually it crumbles. But...

Either way, it's what's happening inside that matters so much. Because even if you put on the act and show of confidence, but you're really not, it will affect your performance and your state and your overall well -being. Which, I mean, might as well bring this up now, is an irony because sometimes one of the ways for developing more confidence is acting more confident. So it's kind of like this catch -22.

of if you're not confident, you need to act more, because there's physiology behind that. Like you actually feel better. You appear more confident when you stand up straight with your shoulders back and put your head up like all of these biological things, physical things. They actually exude confidence. And so one of the ways to have more confidence is to stand in a confident manner. Well, it's to act confidently.

And so it like, it breeds it. It's the as if principle, which is an actual, it's an actual true psychological principle. People just like, oh, just fake it till you make it. Like, well, kind of, but there's principles there like you're saying. Like if you stand up straight and you walk in with confidence and you feel more confident, like it actually helps create that. And so you can foster it, but I think - So it's an irony here of - Right, right. But I think, I think we all understand how confidence plays a role.

Rachel Denning (04:07.182)
in our lives and especially the outcomes of our lives, even like you were talking about, going into something confidently quite literally improves the probability of that thing going well, which is really interesting. I think I even read some research once that says, say you're standing on the edge of something and you're going to jump across it. It was William James, a great psychologist.

And he said, if you believe that you will fall, you're more likely to miss the jump and actually fall. And your physiology will change. Physiologically. But if you believe that you will make it, you increase the probability that you will make it. OK, I just learned this today. This is so cool. You guys were such nerds. I just love this science stuff. The body actually has what's called

anticipatory circuits. It'll anticipate things. And so if we create a pattern or a habit, or we have enough mental power, right, and there has to be a lot of emotion, a lot of conviction, you can't be like, I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna make it. I'm going to make it. Right? You conviction like you are wrong. I'm gonna make it. I know I'm gonna make it.

then what happens is the body has anticipatory circuits. And so it'll anticipate things and create changes physiologically. What I read about today was like, if you start getting up at a certain time and you start exercising a certain time, he said in as little as two to three days, the body will start anticipating that and start giving energy boosts right at that time, anticipating what's coming.

Isn't that awesome? That's interesting that you say that because yesterday I went to get a massage and it was... You had anticipatory circuits. No, I did. Let me explain. I laid down on the massage table and I felt this feeling come over my body of this anticipation. Like my body knew what to expect because I've had enough massages now that it was like, oh, it like released all these endorphins or something.

Rachel Denning (06:28.974)
before it even happened. You're like, ah, that's so cool. And it was fascinating because I was like, this is different. Like I don't usually have this feeling or at least I don't pay attention to it. So it was kind of fascinating to experience that of this feeling of an anticipatory physiological reaction, physiological reaction to my body going to have it going to have a message. Yeah. Interesting. I know where I.

anticipatory circuits. Whoa. Whoa. Okay, back on there. Back to confidence. Back to confidence. So your level of confidence will in a great measure be a determining factor in your life. And we could think through so many scenarios, circumstances, situations, examples of how your...

level of confidence has affected outcomes in your life already and will in the future. Anything from dating and marriage to jobs, work projects, learning, trying new things, especially that one, trying new things. Some of us have remained so limited, so, so tragically limited in both exposure,

and participation simply because we lack the confidence to try something new. Because it is new and it's awkward and it's challenging and it's embarrassing. And we're gonna talk through all of that. But think how many things you have not tried because you lacked confidence. How many risks you have not taken simply because you lacked confidence. What will, ladies and gentlemen, a lack of confidence ultimately cost you in life?

Like I know for me, my Spanish learning has been very slow because I did lack confidence speaking Spanish for many years. I mean, we lived in Spanish speaking countries for what, seven years or more. And I understood a lot, but I didn't speak it as well as I would have liked to because I lacked confidence and speak. Like I didn't want to.

Rachel Denning (08:56.334)
mess up or use the wrong conjugations. Why? Let's unpack that a little bit because this is insightful. So it was in order to master language you have to try it. You have to speak the language. You have to practice forming sentences in your head and then speaking them out loud. And you have to, this is a good example actually, because you have...

you have to engage out loud with other people. Like you could go speak in the forest all you want and you could come back thinking your Spanish is great because no one ever corrected you or laughed at you. Or misunderstood you. Yeah, as the case may be. But this is a perfect example where you have to do it in public with another human being who speaks Spanish or speaks their language and you have to attempt to form something knowing it's not going to be there and you got to do it anyways. So why? Why is that uncomfortable for so many people?

Well, part of, I mean, let's go back to my example. Well, we talked for you. Why was it for you? Right. With my personal example, for me, for me, I, first of all, if we want to back way up, which we're going to tie in to, because someone else was asking us about confidence. And, you know, when I was younger, I was shy and embarrassed. And my face would turn red when I was talking to people. So I think it even started there, where I had to learn to overcome that. And once I gained,

level of confidence there like I could talk to people without turning bright red I Felt like I was starting over like here. I am again the newbie looking like an idiot. You know, it's not my face turning red per se but I'm I'm making a fool of myself where I have a level of competence in my own language Right. Whoa, so it's going back to like childhood programming. Yeah, and we could say in certain circumstances going back to

that programming, the conditioning, the neural connections back there of like when it was uncomfortable for us in our own language, the native language. Yeah, at school, who people were looking at and like, oh, what's wrong with you? It felt like that again, because you're talking and you know that you're a competent person in your own language. Hopefully. But to these people.

Rachel Denning (11:13.806)
in a new language, you just sound like you don't know what you're talking about. Like you're a total... Yes, you go from a place of competence to now a place of incompetence. And that can be threatening. Very insightful. This is important. And so again, we can distinguish there is that lack of confidence in the thing or lack of confidence in yourself or both. And that's a really great example there of...

of an incompetence that brings up a lack of confidence. It's interesting now that you bring that up, I've heard our own children say things like that. I'm like, hey, why didn't you speak up? They're like, I didn't want to say the wrong thing. So even in their own, and this wasn't in another language, this is in our own language, like in some setting, we have this social fear of saying the wrong thing, of looking foolish. It's interesting, you guys have heard me say this before. It comes up often in my coaching sessions that,

We have a fear of failure, but for many people, the fear of looking like a failure is much greater than the fear of failure. As long as it's private, no one knows, no one's watching, I'll fail. I'll take that risk all day long. No one knows about it. Which is why practicing Spanish at home by yourself is great, because nobody's going to know how bad it is. Duolingo is so unthreatening. I know. Because even when you get it wrong, they give it, they give it. They're like, good job, you've got this.

But when your actions are on display, that's a real test. Okay, so let's back up. You guys know my story. Rachel just shared part of hers. It sounded like mine, really. I struggled talking to people. I would turn bright red. I was very shy, I was very timid. I didn't want to try new things, especially in front of other people. I didn't want to raise my hand, I didn't want to participate.

Interestingly, as a participant, I'm still quiet. As a student, if I were to go to a course or a class, I'm usually kind of sitting somewhere discreetly and just I'm quiet. And I go to a whatever, any kind of gathering or something, I'll be quiet. And I won't participate as much. And yet when it's my turn to be on stage, let's go baby. And I'll lean into a full thing, but it's quiet. And so I lacked.

Rachel Denning (13:37.038)
confidence in myself. So I had massive personal insecurities about me, just about my being and all these stories I told myself. So I lacked confidence in myself. Well, of course that can't not carry over to the things I do. And then of course, if I didn't do things well, I lacked confidence in those things as well.

So it was, it kind of compounds. And so as we talk through this today and like how to gain confidence and go through this journey and, and Rachel, I both did that. Yeah, for me, I remember being told I was shy from a young age. And then I think I probably was shy, but I also felt like I leaned into that because it was like, embrace the identity. Exactly. I'm shy. I remember telling myself that for years. Like I'm shy.

And so that doesn't help you be more confident if you believe that you're shy. Can we pause there for a second on that? Again, geeking out on the science. So if you embrace an identity of being shy, your subconscious brain goes to work to make that a reality. Because your body and your brain and your whole life cannot operate in incongruence. So if you embrace an identity of not being confident.

and you keep telling yourself that, you keep reiterating and being shy, I don't do that, I'm not good at those things. Your body plays that out and it'll reinforce it, whether it's true or not. It'll play out those things. And again, like we were talking about with the body and physiology and all that stuff, it's gonna cooperate there and your beliefs are gonna play out in a major way. So if you're going along reinforcing that with yourself or heaven forbid with your children,

you're giving them these negative identities. All of you should read and reread the book Mindset by Carol Dweck. If you have kids, that is mandatory reading, man. Because she talks about that. She talks about how most of the mindsets are set by parents. Right, which is one of the reasons I've never said that to my kids. I've never told any of them that they're shy. We're always very careful to choose our words and say things like, you don't need to be timid right now.

Rachel Denning (16:04.014)
You know what I mean? Like we can acknowledge that they're behaving in a way that some people might call shy, but it's a behavior, it's not an identity, if that makes sense. We try to clarify. And we never introduce them as, oh, this is our shy one. Yeah, absolutely. Or, this is our athletic one. We never do that. We never ever do that. Because... Careful to not label. It builds that. So maybe, I think it's very probable that those of you who are listening,

have picked up labels along the way that have affected your level of confidence. Right, so if we're making a list of how to be more confident, one of them is to identify your identity pieces. Like, how do you identify yourself? What kind of I am statements do you make? I am shy, things like that. And then you start working on changing that wording. I mean, people may not think that that's an important part, but it is.

If you start changing the way you talk to yourself, the stories you tell yourself, it changes how you behave, it changes how you think about yourself. And so while in theory you should try to be careful about the kind of I am statements you make, it's better to say something like I am confident than to say I am shy. But a better, an even better approach,

like she talks about in the book, the growth mindset is like, I have the ability to confront challenges or I have the ability to face problems or I have the ability to have courage or to be bold. I'll just jump in right here. This is going to be one of the major, uh oh, I don't know how to say the word. What's the plural of premise? Premises? This is one of the major.

premises premises or premises whatever of this whole conversation is this what you just said so it's instead of saying I'm confident there's a statement that I I would invite everyone to embrace of I will figure this out right that's it's you don't have to have all the answers in order to be confident you don't have to be the best in the room in order to be confident but

Rachel Denning (18:25.998)
this that is so the growth mindset of I'm gonna figure this out. Yeah, I don't know but I will figure it out is one of the best ways to begin growing confidence that that I've ever come across. Absolutely. In fact, while you were saying this, it's kind of like, yeah, that's exactly it. I know for me, it's kind of funny because right before we were gonna do this podcast, Greg was like, oh, let's talk about confidence. I'm like, I got nothing like that.

I don't know what to say about this, right? And he's like, what do you feel confident about? I'm like, I don't know. But when you talk about that, I think that is something I do feel confident about. I feel confident in my ability to figure things out and to solve whatever problems I choose to take on, right? So yeah, I think that, because then that becomes an underlying confidence that can support you in.

Variety of situations if not everything right of just saying look. I'll figure this out, right? I'll solve this problem life is life is just an unending series of solving problems Yes, exactly. And so you just say well figure this out. I got this we'll work through it I don't know what to do right now, but we'll make this work. That's this kind of intrinsic beautiful and powerful confidence that I want

all of you to practice embracing. Again, I want to emphasize this, you don't have to be the best in the room. In fact, if your confidence is based on competition, of being better than someone else, it actually makes your confidence kind of vulnerable and fragile and up for rebalancing. So if you're like, well, I'm confident because I'm the best here.

And what happens if the number two guy just seriously levels up? Oh, there goes your confidence. It's shattered now because it was based on competition. Which is the foundational premise behind fixed versus growth mindset. If your confidence, your identity is bound up in being the number one or being the best or whatever, being smart, being artistic.

Rachel Denning (20:50.606)
then if that ever changes, if you're ever number two or you're ever, you know, get a lower grade on your test or something. Or if you ever get older. Or get older, right? Or whatever. Lose your hand so you can't do art, whatever. Like there's a lot of things in life that happen. Then you now lose that confidence you had because your confidence was connected to that identity. Where if you have this growth mindset that...

I will be able to figure things out, then it doesn't matter if you lose your hands or you get a bad test score or whatever. You think, oh, well, I can figure this out. I can solve this problem. I can overcome this. I can find another way to enjoy life, right? So that's a much deeper, broader type of confidence than one that's connected to your identity. As a fixed mindset. As a fixed mindset.

Because there can be, and this gets a little confusing in semantics here, but there can be identity statements we embrace that really do help us. Like on my office wall, I have this saying, this ancient saying, I've had it up there for years and years and years, it just says, I will either find a way or I will make one. That's for me, that's the basis of my personal confidence. I will either find a way or I'll make one.

Like if this has been done before, then I can do it too. So again, it's, but which is totally opposite of how I used to be because I used to think I'm not as good as they are. And I went back to everybody was better than me back then, right? Because of my deep insecurities. And so I'm like, how could I possibly be confident this person does that and that person does that and oh, they're so great. And I don't know how to do that. And I don't know if I can do that, right? All these fixed mindsets I had in these deep insecurities.

So I never would have embraced this idea of like, look, I'll either, I'll find a way or I'll make one. I didn't have that. But I came across it and I embraced it. I'm like, wait a minute. And I remember reading a book one time and it just really struck me. Like if other people have done it and you can too, which isn't common because most times like, oh, other people did it. They're so lucky or they're so special. They're so great. I can't do that. And that's kind of the default setting. I couldn't do that. I couldn't do that. Sure you could. Why couldn't you?

Rachel Denning (23:14.83)
And just kind of switch it on your head. I'm like, well, no, I'll figure this out. I got this. And it changes things. And so it starts with that mindset. Which I think is connected to this in a way, because sometimes, at least for me, now that I have that sort of mindset, what it then ends up coming down to is I don't want to do that. It's like this conscious choice of I now realize all the work that would go into.

having or doing or creating whatever this person did do or create, I don't want to do that because I have something else I want to do. You know what I'm saying? So it's, you don't feel this insecurity of like, oh, they're better than me. The comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Comparison. They, they did that thing. It's like, that's cool. They accomplished that. I could have that too. If I wanted to do the work, I don't want to do the work for that. I want to do the work for something else. So it's, it's.

changes the whole feeling in a way because you don't feel like, I don't know, jealousy maybe. Right, it's very settling. You get settled in your own skin and well again, okay, this is relevant. You have to have clarity about who you want to be and how you want to do life. And what you really want out of life because it's gonna take work to get it. So you better know what you want. So it's worth the effort you have to put in. Right.

And then you can stop comparing and competing, which is a major source of a lot of your insecurities. Exactly. That's powerful, right? So you can just say, well, that's good, good for you, man. Happy for you. That's fantastic. And you don't have to try to keep up with your neighbors and the people in your church group or the people at work or whatever. You can, and again, do this from a whole healthy place.

So you're not reacting. You're not like, why do you want that anyways? It's like the whole Fox and the grapes, right? Well, I'm sure those grapes are sour because I couldn't get them. It's like, no, you were so ineff... Well, I love that fable because he was so ineffective in his strategies and then he blamed the grapes. So, man, I always am like, it ain't the grapes. It ain't the grapes. It ain't the grapes. And this fits very well in this instance as well of don't blame the grapes. Just say, do I really want that? Then I have...

Rachel Denning (25:37.742)
I have no qualms like, OK, hey, they're doing this or doing that. I'm like, great, good for them. Whatever. I don't feel the least bit threatened. And that's important. Right. That's another, again, for making this list here, that's another important piece of having more confidence is, like you were saying, settling it with yourself what you actually want, like getting clarity. Because I think that is one of the problems. People don't take.

time to really get clear about what it is they want and they look around on social media at their neighbors and they're like, well, they have that. I want that. They have that. I want that. And so it's this constant feeling of inadequacy by trying to be somebody else, trying to, or, or vaguely wanting what other people want because you don't know what you actually want. But if you're clear about what you want, clarity brings confidence because you're like, I know what I want.

and I'm working on getting it. Yes. Ooh, ooh. That's worth reiterating, emphasizing. So getting clear about what it is you want, who you're going to be, and then knowing you're actually working on it, not just giving it lip service. You're actually working on it. Then you feel confident. You feel good. You don't have to go around feeling threatened by what other people are or aren't doing or what other people are saying about you. Because when you choose,

When you choose to do life a certain way, there's gonna be naysayers unless you just fit in with the crowd, man, and you just fall along and they're gonna be like, good job, you know, you're just like everybody else, which is lame in my opinion. But if you just are kind of choosing your own path and doing your thing and doing it well, like people, and you break away from the herd, oh man, you're gonna deal with the bellowing.

There's gonna be some naysayers and you gotta have you got to be able to just like roll with it and let them say all their stuff about You know if you decide to home educate your kids. Oh, you're gonna get an earful Okay, and you decide to start your business or live unconventionally and be a nonconformist. You're gonna hear all about it. All right, and You can you you don't have to fight back. You don't have to get defensive You don't be threatened by it because you're settled in who you are

Rachel Denning (28:03.47)
you're becoming, what you're doing, and like rock solid practices to get there, you don't have to worry about it. That's another piece. Right, well which to emphasize that because there is there's levels here because obviously first is...

not worrying about what other people want, getting clarity on what you want, and then being settled with that. But then you have to, at some point, because this is a phase, it's a journey, you have to be getting the result. You gotta back it up. Because if you continue going on saying, I don't want that, I don't want that, I want this, but you're never actually getting that.

you're not gonna have confidence. And people are gonna notice, and over time they're gonna be like, well you've been talking about that for 10 years, like when are you gonna actually get that thing you're talking about? And long before that, you'll notice. Oh yeah. That's the one thing I think would undermine confidence quicker than anything else, is not making and keeping commitments. Not doing what you say you'll do. Not following through.

Not getting the results you say you want to get. Right, you just, even if you're busy and even if you're telling yourself all these stories about what's going on, blah, blah, blah, whatever, you know. And that, oh man, that's one that I love just shouting for the rooftops. Like if you live below where you know you're capable of living and you're doing less than you know you're capable of doing, that just destroys you from the inside out. You're going to.

be confident because of that. You can't not be. That makes sense. Like if you know clearly this is what I want, this is what I'm going for and I am not getting it. There goes your confidence. You're gonna struggle with confidence because you're gonna say what's wrong with me? Why am I not getting this? And that's I think that that's a safety mechanism there. Like somewhere psychologically...

Rachel Denning (30:12.622)
That's a safety mechanism for us as humans to say, wait a second, something's off here because I'm not getting the results I wanna be getting. I need to be questioning myself. I need to be questioning my methods so I can problem solve and figure out how to make the tweaks necessary to actually get the results I want to get. So that's another part of this confidence journey is continuing to...

tweak and question so that you can get the results that you want to get. Because getting results brings confidence. Oh yes it does. That's actually a perfect lead in to one of the factors I want to talk about which was competence. In a very real way, confidence follows competence. And you can think of many examples in your own life of how as you practice something became far better at it.

your confidence grew. Something as simple as driving, when you start driving, you're just like, ah, but now I don't imagine any of you listening would be scared and timid about going out, getting your car, driving to the grocery store, picking up a few things, coming back, right? You're not even think about your confidence. You're not gonna go out in the car with your keys and like, am I competent enough or confident enough to drive to the store? You're just gonna go do it.

But you are gonna question your teenager's competence. Yes, and they hopefully will too. Or they have a false confidence, we've seen that, like, I can drive anything, I'm the best driver. And you're like, whoa, your confidence way exceeds your competence in this instance. But for most of us, unless we get a warped reality, which some people do, their confidence in it is totally outgrown over their competence. Is that the Denning Kruger effect? Yeah, the Denning Kruger effect where...

It's the people who are least competent have the most confidence. And I don't know if it's deep and sincere or if it's one of those things we were talking about at the very beginning where they overcompensate with confidence because they're aware of their incompetence or maybe not. I don't know if this pyramid we have is from the Dunning -Kruger effect or if it's something different, but at the very bottom, it's unconscious incompetence. So I truly think that there are some people who aren't just...

Rachel Denning (32:34.446)
unconsciously incompetent. They don't know how incompetent they are. Now at the top of the scale is unconscious competence, which is happens when you learn how to drive really well and you can listen to podcasts while you're driving and hardly pay attention to what you're doing and still be able to do it competent. So that's at the top of the pyramid is unconscious competence. So let's dive into which breeds confidence. You are going to be confident when you have

unconscious competence in a certain area. So let's dive into that more. Specifically with, we'll use talking to people as an example, because I was so shy and timid and what I didn't know, I mean, I guess I kind of unconsciously knew it. I didn't know what to talk about. I would be terrified of a 30 minute drive with somebody. I'm like, I'm not getting in that car because I have no idea what we'll talk about.

Are you kidding me? 30 minutes? So funny, because I remember thinking that too. I know. And I guess, you know, if you'd asked me about Shia, I wouldn't have said, well, it's because I lack skills, social skills. I wouldn't have articulated that. But looking back, I'm like, well, that was a major source. I didn't know how to effectively talk to people. And then as I developed the skills to even talk to strangers and ask questions and carry on a meaningful conversation, I also remember early on too, I didn't know what to talk about because.

they might bring something up and I had no frame of reference, like none. I had so little experience in life, so little exposure, then they're like, well this and that and the other and I'm like, I got nothing. I got nothing. And so they would talk about things and I hadn't been anywhere, I hadn't done anything, I had read very little and so my own tiny reality made me incompetent and...

unconfident because I didn't know. And so as we, as I expanded my education and experiences and travels and I learned how to have conversations, now I'm completely comfortable talking to almost anyone, anywhere at any time and striving for a meaningful conversation. So it's specifically cultivating and strategically doing skill development in something leads to confidence.

Rachel Denning (34:57.582)
And I would like you were saying there another piece is increasing your exposure and your...

Rachel Denning (35:07.854)
Education expansion awareness and just being exposed to more situations more places more people I know for us for me Specifically, but I think for both of us and our children. That's one of the things travel has done for us like we've been to so many places and been in so many different Circumstances and situations and had to solve so many problems like while you're in a foreign country like all of these things It's just bred a lot of confidence for

me for sure, you know, speaking personally. Um, Hey, contrast the first time we drove across the border in New Mexico versus last year we drove across, drove, let's roll and drove the full length of it again. And how great experiences. Yeah, you're exactly right. So repetition and exposure to lots and lots and lots, just repeating it again and again and again and again, and, and breadth and depth. You get so comfortable with it. And so all of you could give us examples.

whether it's with music, right? You pick up a new instrument and you're like, oh man, this is so awkward, so bad. Or you pick up a tennis racket for the first time or pickleball. We picked up pickleball paddles and I was like, this feels really awkward. And I'm, oh, I just missed it again. And I don't know what to do. And I don't know the rules, but you do it again and again and again and again and again. And you're like, okay, I got this. And learning languages and going to foreign countries and reading a book. The first time you go through a book, what's going on here?

and then you read it and reread it and read it and reread it. And you're like, oh, I got this. And this is where we want to get with competence, certain things you want to get to a level of mastery where you know it so well. Somebody could wake you up in the dead of night and right out of your sleep, you can go, right? And you can lean into that thing. Because that's the unconscious competence. You could just go with it. When you're at that spot,

You're just going to have this natural confidence that comes with that. Exactly. Yeah. And it's not this bravado. It's just, you're certain in your understanding, your capabilities, your, like, it's just a part of who you are. It's a part of you. And so ultimately that's kind of what it is. Confidence is essentially just exuding who you are.

Rachel Denning (37:35.118)
So when you have more capabilities and more competencies, confidence exudes because you're just naturally being yourself and yourself is a capable person. Right. But you actually have to become capable. Yeah. Well, so when you mentioned reading and rereading, one of the things I thought of was, I remember years ago is probably now.

15, 18 years ago, I read Walden for the first time by Thoreau. And I remember being absolutely and completely lost. Like so lost, I just stopped reading the book because I was like, I don't even know what he's talking about. Then I remember reading it again, or picking it up to read it again, probably seven to 10 years later.

and hundreds of books later. And hundreds of books later and hundreds of experiences later and multiple countries later. And I was like, oh, I got this. I understand this, right? And you could relate to it. I could comprehend it, right? That was the thing. I remember thinking, I can comprehend this. I'm more educated than I was, right? And so it's that kind of idea, essentially, that...

Yeah, you're picking up something for the first time and you don't know. And so you completely, I couldn't have had a discussion about Walden. I could not have. Now I probably couldn't now because it's been so long since I read it last time that I don't remember. But the second time around, I could pick it up, I could read it and I could discuss it with someone because between that time period, I'd worked on developing myself. I'd worked on educating myself. I'd worked on...

increasing my capabilities. Well, we went out and had our own Walden experience in the Dominican Republic where we lived in this little remote, well, we went to a remote village and then we went out beyond that to, it was the beach. The end of the road. It was the end of the road. It was just us and our neighbor from Italy and that's that and the beach. It was amazing. And there was no internet out there, sometimes no running water or electricity. It was awesome. And so now we can go back and read that and go, yeah.

Rachel Denning (39:58.894)
Because we've done it. We lived it in a way, right? And so it was much more relatable because we're like, yeah, I understand this because I've had that type of experience. And so part of what we're saying here, in order to cultivate confidence, and this is maybe the irony, you have to try lots of things. But that's the scary part is trying lots of things, is doing all this new stuff that's awkward and embarrassing and difficult and challenging and new and like, ooh, I don't know.

That's the point. But I think the other good news here for introverts especially because that's me is not all of that has to be done in front of other people. Because I know a lot of what developed my confidence levels like you know I'm doing a podcast with you. I speak with you like that wasn't something I could have done ten years ago right or definitely not 20 years ago. In my mind I'm picturing all these closet developers. Exactly.

They're hiding in the closet, learning languages, reading books, practicing dance moves. In a way, that's true. It works. You don't have to do it all in front of other people because you can read the books. For me, writing was something that really developed my confidence and my ability to articulate. When you have the ability to articulate yourself, when you are able to communicate what you're thinking, that breeds confidence because you no longer feel like...

I don't know what to say and I don't know how to say it. And one of the ways I was able to learn how to do that was through writing. I wrote blog posts, I wrote books, I wrote all kinds of emails. I've written tons of stuff and it helped me to develop my ability to articulate, which then helped me to develop my confidence. You did the same thing with website design. I did. It's designed again and again and again and again and again.

And it was just this repetition of practice and failing forward. Exactly. But it was all something I did essentially in private. But there's a lot of things I've done like that. So one thing I thought of was say you want to practice speaking to people. Like you can make videos for yourself, right? You turn on the camera and you practice talking to the video. And I know that I did that for a while. Like before I was confident speaking or teaching, I...

Rachel Denning (42:25.166)
I practiced making, I didn't share a lot of them, because I was like, oh, I'm not going to share that. But I was practicing, right? I was practicing making the videos and practicing talking in front of someone, even though I was really just talking to the camera. That's a good one, because it's awkward having a camera on you. Yeah, it's something about having that camera on there and recording what you're saying that makes it more awkward. And so it...

but it gives you an opportunity to practice without, you never have to publish that video. You can just delete it as soon as you're done, but it still is a valid form of practice because it feels similar to actually. It feels so real, but it's very low risk. That's awesome. Very low risk. I love that. So read lots of books across lots of genres. There's a good quiet way to expose and it all gets in your head. And then when you come out in conversations or experiences, you can draw on that.

Whether it's your own decision -making abilities or you're out having experiences or a conversation comes up and they're talking about something like, hey, I read about that. You can engage. Rachel and I, we have a very favorite movie that I think fits with this very well. It's The Secret Life of Walter Mitty. And as you watch that, it's an excellent movie. And as you watch it, he is, he lacks confidence in so many things. And finally, this - Partly because he lacks experience. It's exactly because he lacks experience.

And it's kind of funny because he's putting together this dating profile and the guy's like, okay, tell me what you've done. He's like, oh, he's like, where have you been? I went to Phoenix. But it was just a layover. I didn't leave the airport. He hadn't gone anywhere, done anything. And so because of the circumstance, he's forced to go do epic stuff. And of course it transforms him. He's just this huge change. And so part of our message here today is get out.

Live. Learn things. Try things. Sign up for classes and courses and hire tutors and coaches and just travel to places. Go travel the world. Just go through your bucket list and the things that like are intimidating to you. Sign up, buy the tickets and go. And I promise what will happen is going to be transformative for you.

Rachel Denning (44:45.486)
Because you'll go out and you'll get through it. And not everything will work out smoothly. And you'll still get through it. You might go out and lose all your luggage. And then, oh, worst case scenario. And for us, we've had our worst case scenarios, where we did all of our investments. We tried everything. And it all failed. And we lost it all. And then our worst case scenario was there. And then when the dust all settled, we're like, OK, that was bad. But we still have each other. We're still healthy. We can start over. Let's go.

And so like when things, when you try things and it falls apart, like great, like you realize you can just get back up. So falling down is also part of building confidence. You get out and run faster and able and you trip over something and face plant it and you get up and you're like, well, that hurt, but I'm good. I'm back in the game. And you keep going. Yeah. I think there's a couple of things that are important. One of them you kind of touched on was.

taking action, you have, you can't build confidence if you don't take action. If you're constantly...

in the background, shying away from doing things, trying things, going places. Waiting until you're more confident before you try. Waiting until you're more confident. It's not going to happen. This is the irony. The confidence comes by you doing those things. So buying the tickets, just going out, having the experiences, figuring it out as you go. I mean, one of our favorite...

approaches used to be like ready fire aim. We used to say, oh, we're going to build the airplane on the way down. Like we're figuring, well, no, build the airplane while we're taking off. Like we're going to figure this out while we're going. And we, we took that approach for years. I would say I, I don't do that as much. I still love it though. I love like one of my favorite things in the world, you guys is just roll into a foreign city where we've never been. We know nothing. We were like,

Rachel Denning (46:48.75)
let's figure out what's here. This is so cool. Where do we buy groceries? Where do we do anything? I love that. Where before that intimidated me, it terrified me. In fact, that's one of the reasons why we did it. Because we'd gotten so comfortable in... So we left the United States, went to Latin America, and we'd gotten so comfortable in Latin culture and Spanish and the whole... We're like, okay, we're totally good here. And we're like...

and the thought of going to a place where we didn't speak the language, like scared us, because we're like, well, we came south because we speak Spanish. Right. But now what? That's why we moved to a Spanish speaking country, because we spoke the language. But then when we were thinking about moving, we were in Costa Rica moving to Europe, and we were going to go to Germany, we were terrified, because we're like, we don't know German. What are we going to do? And then you get there, and this little farming community. I remember, OK, I remember we get to.

to Germany the very first time we land, we rent a van, we had rented an Airbnb, we drove to the town where it was and like I think we were just in travel mode and this is how we had always done it in Latin America and we were kind of lost so we pulled over to ask for directions because that's what we would have done in Latin America and the ladies spoke to us in German and we both looked at each other like...

We've got no sense. I have no clue what they just said. Why did we even try this? It makes no sense. And yet we figured it out. We did figure it out. We ended up doing charades with a local farmer to buy fresh milk. And it worked. And so then later on, we built our confidence from that experience. Then we ended up trying to get the idea.

traveling through Slovakia and Slovenia and Croatia and Hungary. That was a tough language. And you're in there. There is no similarity at all to English. There was nothing. And you figure it out. And then afterwards, you're like, hey, we did it. That was great. Nobody died. Nobody got lost. We didn't starve. We didn't starve. We didn't speak language. And yet, we figured out how to communicate and figure out what we needed to do. That was cool. And so you have the experience. You tried it anyways. And the confidence comes. Right.

Rachel Denning (49:05.198)
So now I'm like, I could go anywhere. We could figure it out, right? Because we've tried. And then the other thing I wanted to hit on again was, Jordan Peterson talks about this a lot.

200 hours of podcasts I've listened to, he's mentioned it a few times. And that's this idea of before you become the master, you have to be the fool. And it essentially means that very thing, that when you go out to try new things, you are going to be the fool. You're going to look foolish. You're going to mess up. You're going to fail. You're going to fall on your face. Like you're going to do those things. And...

Unfortunately, for those of us who hate that, that's just a part of the process, right? You just have to be not even willing. You just have to know that that's just going to be a part of it. And you know, that's happened to us so many times. I mean, literally falling on our face is one of my most embarrassing moments was when we were living in Costa Rica.

This was the very first time we lived there. So this was like 15 years ago. And we had gone to church and it was pouring rain after church. Like a Costa Rican rainstorm. A Costa Rican monsoon, practically. And we were going to run to the car to get in. There was no way we were getting to the car dry. No, we weren't. And it was a downpour. And everyone else was going to be smart and just wait till it stopped raining. And we're like, we'll just run out there. You know, it'll be great.

So fun and Greg and I... So everybody, the whole congregation standing out there... The whole church is standing there and Greg and I decided to start running, which would have been funny and fun, except that he and I crossed paths. I don't even know how this happened. We take off as fast as we can and she kind of jumps in front of me. But somehow I'm running like the wrong way. I don't know why. You angled right in front of me. And Greg takes me out. I guess we took each other out.

Rachel Denning (51:15.15)
Yeah, well I just hit her and she just laid out. Fell in my church clothes, just right in the mud and the rain and the puddles and just, and. It was so funny. It was embarrassing. But. Everybody laughed, including us. It was so, so funny. But that's what it's like sometimes is you, you're like, I'm going to be more confident. Yeah, I'm going to do it. Because part of it was that's not my nature. I'm not usually the one running out into the rain.

I'm like, you know, I am more reserved. It's totally you. I'm like, oh, I'm going to do it too with my husband. It's going to be great. I'm going to be brave. I'm going to be brave. Bam. Eat it. But that's kind of what it's like. Is you go out and you're like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to be confident. And you just fall on your face in front of everybody. You just have to get up and keep running to the car. Exactly. And.

get to a place where you can be comfortable being uncomfortable. You can be comfortable being the fool, being the noob, making mistakes. Have you guys ever seen people like that where they're making mistakes in front of everyone else and it doesn't seem to bother them at all? I saw people like that and I envied that and I wanted it. And so I've worked on that. And so I can go to a new place. I can totally mess up and be like, and you know.

And no, people will laugh at you, make fun of you, whatever, and you just like laugh back and be like, yeah, I suck at this. And like, there's no harm there, but if you take it personal, and if you let it get to you, which I think that comes back to lacking confidence in yourself, because I can lack confidence in the thing and still have confidence in myself. And that's where, you know, yeah, I can go on, I can be the fool, I can stink at it, and I can laugh right with people who are laughing at me.

And it doesn't bother me. Sincerely, it doesn't bother me. Because I'm like, I'm good. I'm confident in myself. But if I'm - I don't know, you don't like to dance. Well, because, and this is what I tell Rachel. Okay, and so this is actually really relevant, this conversation. I want to do things well. So if I'm gonna do something, I wanna do it well. I'm not just gonna be like, oh, whatever, halfway. I'm gonna do it well. So if we're gonna dance - Which is just like with, you know, speaking in front of people or even just talking to, speaking Spanish, speaking -

Rachel Denning (53:36.014)
Just talking to people. So yeah, I mean, we all relate to that. I want to master something. I want to be good at it. And so like we'll go dancing, but we only go dancing like once every two years or something. And so we go in there and I'm stepping on Rachel and stumbling over myself and I can't remember the steps. And finally, okay, I think I remember by the time we get back, I've forgotten everything we learned. And I'm like, oh man, I don't like doing this halfway. That's where I get frustrated. Cause I'm not like, I don't like doing a piss poor job at anything.

So I want to do it well. So that's why I told her last time I went down. So I'm like, look, if we're going to do this, I want to tutor, I want to hire lessons. I want to like dial in and get this down. So I'm good at it. And that's, that's my nature. So I'm willing to try new things, but if it's something that's going to stick, I want to practice it and master, get really good at it. I'm not going to just. Right. Which I think again, we have to learn how to separate these things out because a lot of times people think, oh, I'm not confident. I can't do that.

when really it's about in some ways kind of picking and choosing. Like you don't have to be good at everything to be confident. You can be confident and still not be good at other things. Realizing that you're not good at that. And in order to be good at it, you would have to pay the price. Like you're talking about. Like you would have to go pay the price for that thing, but you can still be confident in your ability to do that. You know, if you pay the price, you could. I could figure it out. I could be a great dancer. Right.

but it requires the price. And so it's not like you have to.

just like be confident and, oh, I can do everything. I can do anything. It's realizing, part of confidence is realizing your weaknesses, your lack of capabilities in certain areas. I mean, that is a part of confidence is the humility to know that, yeah, I don't know everything. I'm trying to figure things out. I'm trying to. And being okay with that. And being okay with that. Knowing that every time you learn something, it's exposing you to more of what you don't know.

Rachel Denning (55:41.326)
Right. That your own ignorance, your perception of your ignorance is expanding as well. Exactly. And every time your competencies expand, so too do your realization of your incompetencies in life. And being totally okay with that. Not that you're settling to be a schmuck, but that you realize, man, there's so many cool things to do in life. There's so many things you could do, and you can't do them all. And people are amazing. Like, there will always be somebody that's better than you.

Every person like Emerson said, every person is your superior in some way. And that's humbling, but also a part of confidence. So, a couple of quotes. Hopefully there's been some solid steps and strategies here. I know I'm still growing in confidence, but the growth we've made thus far has literally transformed our outcome.

and our results in life. We've been able to do so many things because we've cultivated our confidence. Part of it was with competence, part of it was with mindset, part of it was with identity, part of it was... Exposure, experience. Tons of it was exposure, experience, and learning. Communication. And part of it was redefining...

confidence. It's not being the best in the room. It's not knowing all the answers. Confidence comes from, well, I'll figure this out. I'll do what I need to do. I can do this. It's believing in your ability to figure it out. And I would say along with that, it's also a curiosity and an openness to learning. Yep. It's huge. And learning to learn. I know I was...

I lacked competence and confidence in learning even, and learning to learn, becoming a better reader and doing all that. Okay, I want to wrap up with two amazing quotes. One by Alexandre Dumas, who wrote the...

Rachel Denning (57:54.638)
Musketeers and others and Samuel Johnson who is a great philosopher. So first by Dumas he said quote a person who doubts himself is like a man who would enlist in the ranks of his enemies and bear arms against himself. He makes his failure certain by himself being the first person to be convinced of it.

Right, and so that's where self -doubt and a lack of confidence will undermine your undertakings even before you start. And so so much of what could be possible for you, you'll destroy by a lack of confidence. And I just want to drive that home, that this matters so much more than we often even realize, especially for our children too. And it has to start with us as parents. If we cultivate strategically and openly cultivate our confidence, that'll naturally spill down to our kids and we've got to help them develop their confidence. Then you have to help them be humble.

Yep. Yeah. And the last quote by Samuel Johnson. He said, self -confidence is the first requisite to great undertakings. Ooh, I'm gonna say it. I'm gonna show that again. Self -confidence is the first requisite to great undertakings. If you're gonna live an extraordinary life and do great things, you've got to cultivate.

Love you guys, thanks for listening, see you tomorrow.

Rachel Denning (59:31.182)
you

Rachel Denning (59:53.838)
Hey guys, thanks for listening. I just want to remind you, like, if this has been helpful for you, you can go leave a rating up to five stars. In fact, only five stars if you would please. But leave a rating and leave a comment wherever you listen to it so we can get in front of more people and share it. Take a screenshot where you're listening and share it. Share it on social media platforms. Share it with friends, family, colleagues. Let's get this out there, especially this one on confidence, man. This needs to be spread far and wide. There is a...

plague, a pandemic of a lack of confidence and it's stopping wonderful human beings from being their best selves. And that to me is one of the greatest tragedies in life. It's just falling short of potential. A lot of it's just cause we lack confidence. So share this, rate it, give us a rating, reach out to us, follow us on social, on Instagram or Facebook and connect with us, send us questions, you know, engage with us on our sites, wherever. And we're happy to do podcasts for your questions and strategies.

We love this stuff, this is what we live for. So thanks for being a part of our awesome community. We love you guys.