Transcript
WEBVTT
00:00:02.428 --> 00:00:26.099
Hello, I'm Rachel Richards and welcome to teenagers untangled as a former BBC correspondent, parenting coach and mother of teenagers I've turned my skills to researching the issues involved in raising teens with us to share the pain and give us a mindfulness perspective is Susie as Lee qualified mindfulness coach and parent of three teenagers Hi, Susie. Hi, Rachel.
00:00:22.048 --> 00:00:39.658
Coming up later in this episode, Sara has asked us to take a look at how we can educate our teens to eat healthily without the risk of them developing an eating disorder. But first, Nikki has written to ask if we'll take a look at screen use.
00:00:36.329 --> 00:00:53.488
She feels a boundary shifted massively during COVID. And now finds getting the balance right is very hard. She wants her teens doing other activities and engaging more with the world rather than simply having to put time limits on their devices.
00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:56.518
Now I started out by trying to pin down some reliable fax.
00:00:53.488 --> 00:01:02.639
There are lots of headlines, but when I dig behind them, they're often small sample studies. And what I would consider clickbait because they feed on our fears.
00:01:02.759 --> 00:01:41.608
But I'll go with one older survey from 2019. By Common Sense Media, a nonprofit organization which has a wealth of information for parents, they found that for older kids aged 13 to 17, the number of time on their screens has climbed to seven hours and 22 minutes. But that was even before COVID really struck. What happened in COVID, according to educational technology, is that the majority of time spent on screens shifted from being something to do with learning to be much more social and entertainment driven. Susie, do you have issues and screentime in your home? How do you as a mindfulness coach perceive it?
00:01:42.510 --> 00:01:45.510
Or it's a minefield?
00:01:42.510 --> 00:03:34.050
Yes, we have issues. I have two boys and a girl. But my boys are quite into gaming, especially the eldest, who's really is a big game, he loves gaming, and, you know, during COVID, and I know that I'm absolutely not alone in this, I was always encouraging them to go and game because that was how they got their social contact, obviously, that has changed, and they don't need that anymore. But we've got sort of stuck in probably gaming more than than otherwise would have been. And my daughter is she doesn't game, or she does a bit, but it's different. And maybe her screentime is a bit more passive. She's she'll have phone a lot, talking to friends, but she'll maybe watch TV more, which is more sort of passive watching as opposed to engaging and actually being sociable with through headphones. And I find it confusing, because, you know, we there's a presumption that screentime is bad and off. And maybe it is, but we don't know yet. And maybe it isn't, maybe it isn't, you know, questioning that that presumption? I do that? And I'm thinking well, you know, I can see there are downsides to gaming or to being online. And I can also see there are positives. But the reality is we don't have long term studies of what this generation will look like, from having so much screentime we just simply don't know. And I don't know whether that I'm not saying that's good or bad. It's just it's so seeds of doubt in my mind when I'm trying to navigating. navigate it, you know, we just don't know. And I you know, I think social media is brilliant, and gaming is so much fun. They love it. I don't think that's the problem. I think the problem is getting stuck in it. Yes, when we can't get off it and do anything else, myself included. Because you know, it's designed to draw us in, isn't it.
00:03:34.080 --> 00:06:12.329
And that's a really good point. Because Common Sense Media says we need to shift from evaluating the quantity of screen time to the quality of the content and what's actually happening when we're when we're when we're looking at our screens. And when you talk about the getting stuck. That's the one area we do know a lot about because we know that these companies that are trying to attract people to the screens, spend a huge amount of money on the best minds in the business, and how you actually keep people get people there and keep them there. So according to the Harvard education review, social media apps use variable reward schemes which were introduced by psychologist BF Skinner in the 1930s. And in his experiments, he found that mice responded most frequently when they couldn't guess when they were going to get a reward. So humans apparently are no different. And if we perceive a reward to be delivered at random, and checking for the reward comes at very little cost, then we will check habitually and programmers know this and they are working very hard behind the screens to make sure that we keep checking, because eyes on screens means money. Yeah. And the rewards that they're talking about are oxytocin, which is that love hormone, that molecule of social connection that we we release it anytime there's a tweet or a message or it tells us that we're actually interacting properly with someone even if we're just reading a message on social media or dopamine, any positive social stimuli can result Send a reward of dopamine. And those results tend to be short term. So they create an addictive feedback loop. So you get the dopamine hit. And then you need another thing another hit to get it again. And the apps, most apps are optimized to encourage you to keep competing, compulsively checking for notifications to get that dopamine hit. And then the cortisol, the fight or flight hormone comes in. Because if you're the type of person who's been doing the checking regularly, like the dopamine hit 15, every 15 minutes or so, if you put the phone away, then after a bit, you're going to end up with a cortisol rush, because you're a bit fearful that maybe you're going to miss something, God and then to get rid of the cortisol rush, you'll go back to the phone to check it. So this is what's happening behind the scenes. It's exporting it. And Instagram even has notification algorithms that sometimes withhold likes, I spoke to my hairdresser the other day, and she had been doing these reels, which are really great for people who want to understand how to do their hair, she's lovely. And she said she'd done this reel and spent ages creating it. And then when she put it up, she hardly had any views. And she thought, what's going on. And so she kept checking. And then suddenly, there was a big amount later on.
00:06:08.670 --> 00:06:20.910
And she reached and when I spoke to her about that, she said, Oh, because Instagram, withhold some of the likes, and the and the views, so that you keep checking, and then they'll they'll give you your hit.
00:06:21.389 --> 00:06:30.899
Because you're primed now to feel much more excited about getting Yeah, and then you'll keep coming back to it. It's amazing. It's amazing how these things work. And I think understanding that, yes,
00:06:30.930 --> 00:06:42.209
helps. It really helps. And teenagers can understand that. I think I was talking to my son about it yesterday, he gets that. I mean, there's one thing, one thing, understanding it in your head.
00:06:39.449 --> 00:06:45.509
And then there's another thing, you know, not following it.
00:06:42.209 --> 00:06:51.720
That's really, really difficult, especially when they are doing that deliberately. But knowing it being aware of that as is really helpful. One of
00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:58.350
the really positive things is the use of the Internet to hunt down things we're interested in.
00:06:58.529 --> 00:07:21.540
Yes. So I use in I try to my screen, use needs looking at. I try to use social media, I mean, I use it for my work, I use it quite a lot for work, it's really helpful. But I also try and follow people who I think are interesting. And I mean, I have learned an awful lot from social media. And I think it's amazing and brilliant. And you meet people
00:07:21.569 --> 00:07:30.000
in areas that you could never possibly absolutely message them. And they message you. How does that happen? How was I able to please people, yes, fun,
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:35.160
it's fun, and it's really, really good. My son was I was talking to him last night.
00:07:33.209 --> 00:07:50.250
And he you know, he knows loads about particular topics in the news that he's interested people, people who are, you know, doing interesting things and stuff that he's interested about, he will sit and you know, read and listen to us on tick tock or wherever it is. And he's really, you know, knows less about it. So it's really good.
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:53.279
Again, the problem was when we stuck it, we get stuck in it.
00:07:53.519 --> 00:08:14.189
And also another problem, I think is the good old comparison itis Oh, which is the toxic part, isn't it? It's the bit where we, you know, we see everybody else having a lovely life and, you know, get FOMO and you know, teenagers, particularly girls, but I'm sure boys as well, you know, I don't look like that, you know, all the all the toxic stuff.
00:08:14.250 --> 00:08:53.129
The problem with the social media is it completely amplifies that because everybody's living their best life online. And so you know, all you see is a stream of people who are going to amazing holiday destinations, and looking their best, which is, you know, 85 to 90% of the time, we don't look our best. So most of the time, nobody looks like we didn't even hard to step away from that and get that in your head. And the number of research studies have been pointing out that this this low self esteem is correlated to time on social media, because it's linked to increased feelings of loneliness, anxiety, depression, envy, you know, it is a problem.
00:08:53.159 --> 00:09:04.620
Yeah. So certainly having conversations about can be really helpful. And talking to them about the stuff that you've been saying where you if you encourage them to hunt down things that genuinely interest them,
00:09:04.649 --> 00:09:20.668
and also maybe encourage them and I'm just thinking, you know, thinking aloud, to follow particular people, because there there is a you know, there is a push back against some of this, you know, there's now an awareness of all of this, how toxic that can be.
00:09:16.649 --> 00:09:37.859
And there are loads of people on Instagram or wherever you you know, wherever you follow, who are against that and who are trying to present normality, you know, whether that's body image or, or, you know, being a parent or for the, you know, for the adults, but you know, trying to turn to show what does a normal life look like? And finding communities
00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:43.080
finding communities of people who, who have interests like you? Yeah, it's a very, it's very enabling.
00:09:43.080 --> 00:10:03.120
And actually one of the great things about COVID Ironically, is that people who are disabled or unable to leave their house, agoraphobic, all sorts of other people found that it was a really great that for the first time in their life, they were able to connect with people, because it was online. Yeah, so this move Have to online has benefited some Yeah,
00:10:03.149 --> 00:10:33.480
I mean, it is it is the mean there is so much. And I think it gets labeled as just being negative because we're frightened, because we don't know what the effects are. And maybe the fear mongers are correct. Which we just don't know. But there are definitely positive things in it. So if we can pick them out and embrace them, and then maybe I don't know, set the limit system talking about myself, or my own children or have somebody will help us to set limits on it so that we're not, you know, we didn't other things we're connecting properly, rather than just
00:10:33.658 --> 00:11:00.658
and that's, I think that's another thing that's happened because of COVID is because we've, we've actually got out of the habit of saying, Oh, I'll meet you for a coffee, or organizing parties or going just going out to go and do other things. Because you think, Oh, well, actually, I could just stay at home if it's comfortable. Yes. And so if you're not a massive extrovert, it can just feel much easier not to bother. And I've had to check myself, I've been texting someone and then thought, for God's sake, pick up the phone.
00:11:00.688 --> 00:11:06.389
And the conversation is so much more enjoyable, funny, and fun.
00:11:06.389 --> 00:11:35.278
And what I did notice with my daughter's during half term, was that when we would get together, we'd be a big family with another family. And we'd get together and all the kids were on their phones. And my older daughter who's very disciplined about her phone use and doesn't really, she can see the problems turned to me later. And she said, You know what, everything's online. Now, I can't, you know, I have to exist online, because she wasn't on Instagram. She wasn't on these other things. And she said, I don't exist for this generation.
00:11:35.278 --> 00:11:38.129
If I'm not engaging in those platforms,
00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:57.750
you but we still don't know what that means, you know, because every generation has the, you know, the adults go, Oh, you're doing too much if you mustn't do that, because you'll end up you know, where will this end? And each generation goes year, but it's fine. Just chill out? No, I don't know. I'm just you know, I there is a
00:11:58.230 --> 00:12:06.450
very good point. What I see when I see this happening is I see us shifting to what Mark Zuckerberg wants, which is this Metaverse where we're all living online.
00:12:06.690 --> 00:12:26.820
And I think heute the point about humans is that we have something that computers don't have, and that we need to teach our children to channel that and get in contact with that, because that's what will define us and make us different. And when it comes to the work environment that they're going to be in. That's the thing that will trump the computer.
00:12:26.820 --> 00:12:27.539
Absolutely.
00:12:27.570 --> 00:12:39.059
I mean, I totally agree with that. I just think maybe that would be a phase absolute, and then they'll find their own way. And it possibly do. No. But there's a there's an uncertainty and it isn't there.
00:12:37.169 --> 00:12:39.059
We don't know what we
00:12:39.058 --> 00:13:26.969
don't know. We don't know. So rather than panicking, yeah, just find ways here at handling things. So what do you do Psychology Today had an article on it that I thought was one of the better ones. And they said, Look, practice teens need practical guidance on how to disengage we need to parent them. I love these talks, because they make me go back into Okay, where am I with is doing very well. When we first set up their devices. We're like, oh, well, I'm going to do this. And I'm getting I'm limiting their screen time. And my children were brought up in a very offline environment. And, and suddenly, I realized looking at them now that the old one has done all the pushing, and she's got very healthy habits because I was very careful. And the younger one has just snuck in.
00:13:26.999 --> 00:13:45.389
Yeah, massive usage. And I suddenly looked into all my coaches online all the time. And so I've realized I have to go back to her and think okay, let's go back to what's happening. And I said, so. So let's have a look at how much time you've spent on Tik Tok.
00:13:40.109 --> 00:14:06.899
She was horrified, because she knows that her use of tick tock isn't really giving her a huge amount. And it's not actually it doesn't feel good. No. So for her, you know that those 10 minutes you thought you spent on tick tock that turned into three hours? It's not it's not making her feel good. No. So we need to somehow interrupt. Yes, that process
00:14:06.899 --> 00:14:27.539
because it can feel good for a bit. I mean, I did try and teach my younger to my younger boy, particularly who really gets stuck in it. What does it feel like when you're in it sort of sort of from a mindfulness were you noticing you're on it and it's actually really fun for a bit and I'm the same it's lovely for a bit. And then you reach a point
00:14:27.719 --> 00:14:29.759
where you've said seven pictures of otters.
00:14:29.788 --> 00:14:30.629
Yeah.
00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:55.590
And you start to numb out and it feels a bit and at that point or he was gaming and and he was you know getting really raged by that particular game. At that point. You know, when can you can you notice just before that kicks in, you know tune into what's going on in your body or your thoughts or whatever, and then take a break.
00:14:50.159 --> 00:15:06.149
Unfortunately the draw of I found with him anyway the draw of the social media is because they are obviously He was explaining you they're deliberately trying to get you to stay on who it was. It was too much to fight again,
00:15:06.178 --> 00:15:44.879
I think that's a discussion to have when they're not online. And when you're having a sort of, okay, let's have a think about what's going on here. What do you want, because rather than imposing upon a teenager, a regime, we need to have a sit down and a discussion about what they're trying to get out of their lives, when they feel at their happiest. You know, any of that is spending a lot of time online, rather than saying, Well, you're wrong. Looking at why it is yes, that they get so much out of that. And one of my friends said that she had actually had a conversation with all the other mothers and said, Okay, so the gaming time is between this window and this window. And she could then say to assemble, you're not missing up because your mates aren't online.
00:15:44.908 --> 00:16:12.899
That's brilliant way of doing it. I think for younger, younger teens getting older it like, Why? Why are you talking to my friends? You don't even know them? Just like That's weird. Younger ones, that's a brilliant idea. I did have a conversation with him. I remember saying, you know, tell me about the gaming what's, what do you? What do you get out of it. And he was really adamant, you know, he he got a lot out of it in a really positive way. It was sociable, it was exciting.
00:16:13.139 --> 00:16:23.458
He felt he was learning. You know, he ramped it up massively to try and win me over. But you know, that his his, you know, there was a hit for him, there were loads of positives in it.
00:16:23.458 --> 00:16:25.229
And that was quite interesting,
00:16:25.528 --> 00:16:44.399
is it's just reminded me off the top of my head of a study by Dr. Eric, Sigmund, when you're gaming, the levels of cortisol go up. And your body has a release of the sugars so that you can run, which because it's a fight or flight hormone. And yet you're all you're doing is staying sedentary. And that that's actually not very good for us.
00:16:44.548 --> 00:17:20.249
So the interesting question is, should we be you know, breaking it up, you know, they're gaming, then going out and doing something that involves some exercises is how sedentary I'll be as a result, one lady I saw had a son who was on his Xbox and YouTube all the time, and then behaving appallingly getting into rages, treating his family badly. And she said, Oh, I don't know what to do. And everyone said, take them away from him. And he was transformed. And then she was saying, I don't know, should I give it back to him? Well, we need to have some real discussions in that situation, because you've then got somebody who's got a problem managing it.
00:17:20.578 --> 00:17:53.398
If your teenager is performing well at school, and they otherwise well adjusted, you know, we can, it's more about just managing it. It's hard, though, very hard. Now setting screen time, Android and Apple devices have screen time features that indicate how long one has been using the device, you can actually go on to these phones, and set screen times for the younger ones, you can actually put a pin in that you put in so that they can't override. And I know one of my daughter's has a friend whose parents has put these in place.
00:17:53.909 --> 00:18:28.618
And she marches around, I don't want anything. And she's furious. But the point is, if her parents hadn't done that she would then have been spending all that time right now she's watching up and down corridors furious. But the point is that she would then simply not come away, she would be spending huge amounts of time. The question with that is, rather than imposing the time, it's sitting down with your teenager and saying, okay, so what do you think is a reasonable amount of time and negotiating it? And then saying, Okay, let's set that. And we can come back and review it. On a week or so time?
00:18:28.679 --> 00:18:38.338
I think that's a great idea. I've tried doing that. Because I do want mine to be less on I think, particularly one of them is on way too much.
00:18:33.058 --> 00:18:38.338
It doesn't hasn't worked for us.
00:18:38.338 --> 00:18:57.838
I don't know whether we haven't followed through or they can you know, the idea of? Yeah, that sounds like a really good amount of time. doesn't really work in reality. But us. I mean, that could work. Because then they're suddenly in that game, or they're suddenly doing that. And well, we'll we'll let's do it tomorrow would start tomorrow.
00:18:53.999 --> 00:19:07.739
Right? There's hard, I don't know where there's one thing having a great idea, good theory, and they can even go Yeah, that's brilliant. I don't want to be so much on my phone, or whatever they're doing. But when they actually stuck in it, then it's really, really hard to pull them.
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:12.599
Well, it's very interesting, because I have tried that with myself. And it works
00:19:12.778 --> 00:19:14.729
very effectively.
00:19:12.778 --> 00:19:14.729
And you'll just notice,
00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:22.589
because what happens is the phone switches, oh, I can't, I can't it will stop you from accessing things.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:40.440
And I have the pin so of course I can change it. But what it does is it concentrates my time effectively. So I then think if I'm going to be on social media for this time, then I need to be effective during that time. So I'll have my social interactions. I'll check this check that check and I'm off.
00:19:40.529 --> 00:19:48.029
Yeah. And and it actually then concentrates me on doing things that are really enjoyable rather than
00:19:48.059 --> 00:20:04.680
Yes. And then I guess when when you're doing it for yourself, you have buy in don't you're doing it for a reason. You want to be less on social media, genuinely otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. Whereas maybe it's different when we're discussing it with As teens, they maybe know in their heads, they ought to not be on it so much. But actually, they really want to be on it.
00:20:06.358 --> 00:20:25.919
I think I think it's it needs to be not any doesn't happen just once. going, Okay, let's try this. How do you feel about it? And actually, the studies have found that FOMO and feelings of anxiety associated with constant connectivity drop off, yeah, do limit the time, because then they just know that it's not Yes, they've had that limit, and now's
00:20:25.949 --> 00:20:31.138
time, then they have to find something else to do, which I find is has been a difficult thing for my kids.
00:20:31.378 --> 00:20:53.098
Because when you're gaming or doing things, you know, on social media, it's really the you know, the reward is immediate, and it's really big, deliberately, as you've explained. So trying to find some another activity that matches that is almost impossible. So there's like a drop in interest drop in excitement, nothing matches to the excitement of you know, blitzing, I hope people
00:20:54.390 --> 00:20:56.190
said yes, and cortisol are going to make
00:20:56.190 --> 00:20:57.390
me leave isn't quite as fun.
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:04.170
Oh, I do need to find things. Let's do give those hits somewhere else, those rewards
00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.230
and get used to that it's just a different way of being.
00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:09.599
Yes.
00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:13.200
Absolutely. And, and understanding the benefit of it.
00:21:09.630 --> 00:21:21.839
So in other words with my kids would have done is when they have been online for long periods of time. I then say to them, so So tell me what what fantastic stuff have you been doing? You know it perfectly.
00:21:21.960 --> 00:22:38.700
I'm not being facetious just yet, give me some stuff. It's, but I'm really interested. And most of the time, they can't tell me what what has happened, what conversations they've had, they've there's nothing, it's blank. And I personally, this is literally no research about this at all, is I feel like when people are scrolling, what's happening is their brain needs some downtime. So they started scrolling to give themselves that brain downtime, which is the same thing you'll get from going for a walk or just doing something repetitive those mindless activities. But their mind isn't switching off because they're constantly being stimulated. So it's mimicking that, but it's not doing any of that at all. So it's actually makes you feel a bit uncomfortable. It just doesn't feel good. So I have had conversations with them about that. And I am getting a lot of buy in now. Because because they understand because I talk all the time about it. But I also think as a parent we need to buy into Yes. So if you're at the table, and it's supper time, and you've got your phone out, then this is a big for the Christmas one year, gave my husband a phone cage for which was marvelous. I looked at it and said, Oh, darling, that's a really great idea. And that went in the middle of the table. And every time his phone went out, it went in the cage. And the kids thought that was hilarious.
00:22:38.700 --> 00:23:09.539
And it's it sort of interrupted that mindless. And the worst thing is, what he's doing is reading the newspaper most of the time, his stuff on his phone, okay, occasionally he's playing a game. But we know if he's playing a game because it's turned horizontally. That's an easy one heyday. It's always hated. And then the other the other one is basically going through all the newspapers, rather than allowing that to happen. We are now buying newspapers so that he can sit and read a newspaper in front of my children, because otherwise they don't know that that's what
00:23:09.539 --> 00:23:12.690
he's doing. They just presume that he's doing what they do on their phones.
00:23:13.410 --> 00:23:35.220
And then I said to my daughter, when we'd had a bit of a Rao and she wanted to make it up to me, I said, Okay, you can make it up to me by reading the broadsheet downstairs, and telling me about a story you find that's really interesting. And she did. And the story was fantastic. And at the end of it, she said, God, I found that really interesting.
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:53.069
And I hadn't really understood why people do that. And sometimes you've just got to interrupt the flow of where they are, and just correct it so that they are so that then if they go back online, they may now be looking for information sources, rather than looking for what the makeup is that's fashionable at the moment, ya
00:23:53.069 --> 00:24:08.759
know, and which can be fun for a while. I can't say but I love the idea of having actual newspapers, because they're, yeah, they don't. And the idea that they, they presume what we're doing on our phones is what they're doing, because of course, because that's what they're doing. And we probably not half the time, we're doing work
00:24:09.088 --> 00:24:52.318
well. And that's the other one I saw, which I thought was fantastic, which is narrating what you're doing. And irritating people. So the thing is that they see you on Instagram, and they think, Oh, she's on Instagram, I'm on Instagram, but you what you're doing is something completely different. Because you can say, right, so now what I'm doing is I'm answering somebody's question here. Now I'm posting a thing about the research that I've done. And now you know, and then you can pull out your phone you say so now what I'm doing is I've got the calendar up because you've got a dental appointment in two weeks time. And I need to get with I need to put in some notes in my diary for you to and so that they can see that what we're actually doing is not scrolling. You basically got a very very busy life managing a million people's diaries.
00:24:52.890 --> 00:24:54.720
And that did not tell you to just be quiet.
00:24:55.529 --> 00:24:58.710
Well try but I can say okay, fine, you do it.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:13.410
Because the point is that then they start to understand that life, what you're doing is not chilling. Yeah, that in a way, it also creates compassion because they can see that you're not actually having a fun time.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:27.779
Yeah, necessarily what you're doing is you're actually trying to run your life because there was a book I read called it the Mean machine, you know that we're all walking around with our phones. Uh, but yours isn't a mean machine, if you're actually using it for work is a basically a management machine.
00:25:24.900 --> 00:25:34.410
Yeah. And so as long as they can start to see that that's what adults are doing. Yes. Then it starts to shift the debate and the discussion.
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:39.569
Yeah, no, definitely, definitely how we use our phones is super important. I'm going to take that up to review.
00:25:40.980 --> 00:26:35.369
And, you know, you did bring up the very, very pertinent point, which is, what are we supposed to do when we're not on our phones? And there's a really fantastic link that I found, which was on parenting teens and tweens.com, which was 50 screen free activities. And I actually thought they were really good. Sometimes you think, Oh, God, they're just filling space. Yeah, they're lame. Actually, no, really good one. So I'll put that in the last link. But they had game nights. They had Nerf gun war, organizing and rearranging your room. Geocaching, reading, having a massive, clear ad, it doesn't always have to be about a dopamine hit, it actually could be about look, you know, you actually need to live in this environment. Should we clear out all the stuff and when you were young, give you an image, a new image? Yes, I've had an evening where my girls went into my wardrobe and tried on all my clothes, and we did a whole, you know, really, what's the image you'd like to have this time, it's fun,
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:36.569
I get my boys to do that.
00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:54.240
I think it could be hilarious. You know, when they were younger, we used to actually put the music on really loudly and dance around to it. Now that may seem really lame when you're a teenager, but you could say, Okay, what's your best hit. And we want to listen to it for this amount of time.
00:26:54.509 --> 00:26:58.349
And suddenly they're off their phones, or talking about music moved.
00:26:58.618 --> 00:27:28.019
That's really lovely. That's a really good way of doing it. Because I think sometimes we kind of get, we fall into our comfort zones, don't think it's really comfortable just to sit and be on a screen because you're not actually doing and it's really passive. And to step out of that takes a bit of effort to do something else that often and I can't be asked. Because we're all tired. It's just easier to sit here. But we know you know, if you put a bit of effort in and actually you know, you get energy out of it as well. But it's getting into putting that little bit of effort into it.
00:27:28.049 --> 00:28:07.559
And then reinforcing it afterwards by like, how are you feeling right now I feel a bit sweaty and fart overspread. And my kids when I do things like that they love it. Yeah, to finish this off the things that are suggested a setting downtimes for device use, and uptimes. So you can say so these are good times to use your device. Yeah, so here are the downtimes during meals are before bedtime. Meeting people restricted use in the morning, don't use your phone as an alarm clock, don't look at it. First thing, treat yourself to something much more interesting, like a coffee. Or walk around the garden or whatever you do, look out the window and just breathe the air something different rather than frantically reaching for your face.
00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:11.099
Because our stress hormones, right instantly,
00:28:11.338 --> 00:28:22.318
taking a proper lunch break, which we will come to in our next section and avoiding screens before bed. So really, really selecting times when you can have a downtime.
00:28:22.648 --> 00:28:44.729
And and saying what we all agree that that's going to be and you can either have, you know selective downtime, or a complete detox. If you're if you've got a point where there's somebody in the house who really can't manage who is exhibiting distressing behavior, there are people can support this. But really, they need to be away from the screen. Yeah.
00:28:45.059 --> 00:29:44.130
And one thing we can do, and I love it as it's a mindfulness thing is called urge surfing and you can use it with anything, but it's really good for digital. And it's when you feel the urge to pick up your phone or whatever it is used or wine, or wine or a massive bag of sweets. Then you notice the urge and then you don't act on it and you give yourself like 10 or 15 minutes time it and you say right in that amount of time, 15 minutes time I am allowed to do I'm going to allow myself to do the urge I'm I'm feeling right now. But I'm gonna make myself Wait. So I can do it. But I don't have to. So you're not saying I'm not going to do it because then we then we resist it and we fight and that's a whole different way of doing it. So you do go do something else. And then after the 15 minutes, quite often that urge has passed or it hasn't or you have you consciously choose No Actually there is something I really need to check on my phone. So I am going to constantly pick it up do that.
00:29:41.069 --> 00:29:55.859
But it's just a very different way of approaching or it's a speed bump in the road. It's a speed bump. You're tuning in your note you're noticing the urge firstly, then you're putting it away and giving yourself permission to do it.
00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:59.430
You're not, you know, restricting yourself massively.
00:29:55.859 --> 00:30:15.150
But you're allowing that urge which is off In a reaction to something else, it's an discomfort from something else, something else has happened, oh, I need to check, oh, I need a glass of wine because it's been, I've just had a horrible conversation, you're reacting to something. So if you can allow that reaction just to pass and then decide what you're going to do is a good way of doing absolutely. And
00:30:15.150 --> 00:30:22.019
then finding the other rewards, you know, things you could be spending your time doing, like, planting seeds for the garden. Anything,
00:30:22.108 --> 00:30:23.038
anything?
00:30:22.108 --> 00:30:23.038
Absolutely.
00:30:23.910 --> 00:30:40.410
So do you have issues with increased screen time in your house? Or have you found something in particular has worked for you, we'd love to hear your stories, or any questions you'd like us to tackle. You can find us on all the main social media platforms.
00:30:35.279 --> 00:31:07.319
Subscribe to us. The irony, keep checking, because we get to see something really important. You can subscribe to us on places like Spotify, Audible, you know all of the major platforms, or you can contact us at help at teenagers untangled.com. Now, Sarah wants us to look at how we can educate our children about healthy eating without giving them an eating disorder. Eating Disorders exists throughout history and around the world.
00:31:03.690 --> 00:31:13.230
But since the 1950s, reports of all eating disorders have increased dramatically, especially in Western cultures.
00:31:10.019 --> 00:31:14.519
Susie, have you had any experience with this?
00:31:14.549 --> 00:31:45.269
Yeah, I mean, I'm trained as a as a psychotherapist, as well. And I think as a society, we do have quite a messed, messed up relationship with the way we eat. And that becomes that's become normal. You know, you hear the conversations all the time we've been parents or we mustn't eat that That's naughty, or I'm on a diet or, you know, just it's just bandied about that you know, that we're fat phobic basically, that you know, thin is good fat is bad. And that we're striving towards looking a particular
00:31:45.269 --> 00:31:48.359
way. being big and muscular from it. Oh, yes.
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:48.750
Good.
00:31:48.868 --> 00:32:22.588
I'm talking about feminine Rios, you're absolutely right. Yeah, being big and muscular for men is good. And being looking differently is bad. And but it's very black and white. And it's very externally driven, you know, external validation, if you look a particular way, and we discussed this before, you know, teenagers are absolutely in a place in their lives where external validation is bigger than it is, in other times of their lives, rightly or wrongly, that's how it works. So we're trying to minimize that, it can be really destructive, because then they think, well, then I'm not good enough. If I don't do it like that. It bleeds into everything.
00:32:22.588 --> 00:32:27.298
Yeah. And it's really, really time consuming and takes over their lives.
00:32:27.690 --> 00:33:45.720
It's an interesting one, because I grew up in a family that ranged from very overweight to obese. And my parents talked all the time about being on a diet, we're going to lose weight, we're going to lose weight, we're going to be thinner, we're going to do this. And I, to me, it didn't touch the sides, of course, until I became a teenager, at which point I would look at them and think, but I didn't think you were eating that thing fits in the diet you've been talking about, and you still haven't lost any weight. So I didn't think you're very good at it. But guess what I think I can do because I'm highly competitive, I'm going to be good at it. So I you know, I went for the full on, I'm not going to eat. And I did it didn't end up into in a full blown eating disorder of the dangerous type. But it took me into my 30s to really work out what was going on there. And for me, the thing that was that was a trigger point was a friend who came up to stay. And what had happened was I put on the puppy fat because I turned into a teenager, I was turning into a teenager, which is the stuff you get just before you have that big growth spurt. And sometimes it continues because women are supposed to lay down fat stores to have babies. But of course, everything in social media or everything, even at that time will tell you that's a terrible thing. And my friend said to me, Oh, you used to be the skinny one. But now you're the fat one.
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:53.190
And I wasn't, I wasn't really deeply hurt. I just thought, Oh, thank you for telling me God can't have need to do something.
00:33:53.190 --> 00:34:05.819
It's always salad cream and sandwiches and things. And so for me what really helped was I actually got into yoga as a teenager, I found a book on it.
00:34:00.869 --> 00:34:20.130
And every day, it talked about a different thing. And one of the key things that talked about was eating food in its closest lifeforce. So things that actually make you build you up as a human being full of nutrients. And that actually started to switch my thinking.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:58.230
It didn't stop me having, you know, eating problems, because I just didn't know how you're supposed to eat. And just to zoom the clock forward, one of my daughters had a very similar experience. Now she didn't say there was a trigger point, like someone's saying, now you're fat. But she said up until about the age of 13. She'd been at a school that was offline pretty much. And she said she never thought once about how she looked. She just thought she looked great. And so did I. And then she suddenly when she was going to the next school, looked online and said, oh, oh, whoops, I don't look like those people.
00:34:58.469 --> 00:35:51.030
And panicked. Yeah. and lost large amounts of weight. She was never fat by any stretch of the imagination, never never overweight, she was just, you know, a normal girl, a normal girl. And it got to the point where I had to say to her, sweetie, if you are not going to eat more, I'm going to have to get the nurse to where you are on a daily basis. And I know you love your freedom. So we need to talk about this. And we had a lot of deep discussions. And she won't mind me talking about this, because it's, it's kind of behind her. Yeah. But she said, what I said, what your what what should we be doing? Because we're really scared about giving our kids an eating disorder. So how do we how do we do this? And she said, she's surrounded by girls. She can't talk about the boys because she's hasn't got boys in her in her environment.
00:35:47.489 --> 00:36:13.139
But she said, who are all saying, Oh, I'm really fat, and then they'll, they'll starve themselves, and then they get hungry, then they eat pizza, and crisps and sweets. And then because they've eaten that they then punish themselves by not eating breakfast. And then as she said, it's this kind of constant vicious cycle where they keep talking about what they're doing wrong, and then punishing themselves and, and it becomes a punishment. Yeah,
00:36:13.289 --> 00:36:40.679
it's all about control. It's never about the food. And it can just spiral really quickly into an obsession. And then you've got mood swings, because you're not eating properly. And, and based in a context, that is we're all slightly messed up about food already. So there's where do they go? Where do they look for, like normality? And they need, you know, the emphasis always has to be not on, what do you look like? But how do you feel?
00:36:37.260 --> 00:37:15.780
You know, how does it make you feel, and I'm imagining when you did yoga, when you were young, which was amazing. You have an awareness of your body from doing yoga, you're very in touch with your body. And if you can feel you're in your body, a you are less in your head, thinking about these things, but you tune into what does my body need? Or does my body want? When am I hungry? When am I full, you know, it's just a more organic way of treating your body, I think that we've come a long way away from that. So we don't feel comfortable in our bodies, we're in our heads. So you know, we're shoving junk in our bodies, because it gives us a hit in another way.
00:37:15.809 --> 00:38:13.409
And it's easy, because I look around. And I think I can't understand why more people aren't obese. If you go into any supermarket, which is predominantly the way people shop in the UK, and one of the reasons why I try not to shop in supermarkets, is because you're literally assaulted from the moment you get in there, right up until the tills with fast food. That's cheaper. And that's a quick hit. And eyes, I look at these things and thinks, oh, wait, you know, really, if it was up to my mind, as a teenager, I would just basically eat all of that a teenager and you have an allowance or any, once you have control, you could buy an entire birthday cake of your own eater and no one's checking. You have a sudden freedom. So what do you do with it? And in a way, our teenagers are being educated about food all the time, you know, there's like nutrition education, which is a very formalized way of doing it, but it's not really hitting home
00:38:13.469 --> 00:38:18.300
knowing it because it's addressing what's going on in our heads. It's an intellectual discussion of food.
00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:24.269
And that's really useful, really good, really helpful, but it's not integrating their bodies.
00:38:21.329 --> 00:38:35.460
It's not saying like with the you know, just just before talking about you know, being in touch with your body so do you know when you're hungry, do you know when you're full, stop then stop eating?
00:38:35.940 --> 00:38:52.920
And yes, and of course, I was brought up in an era and I'm sure you were to an extent where you had to finish what was on your plate really damaged would be we would be forced to sit there and my porridge was brought out the next morning if I hadn't been and I didn't want it my father would put it in the fridge and bring it out the next day. And there are reasons
00:38:52.920 --> 00:39:24.389
for people being like that, you know, we live in a very different you know, different society now where we are, you know, abundance of food, ridiculous amount. But yeah, well they may be taking risks, but you know, just tuning into your body What's your body telling you I had this conversation with with my eldest yesterday because I knew I was doing this and we were talking about a time when he was pretty in tune with with his body. I mean, we have sadly regressed back to eating a lot of junk food. Because his metabolism is really high because he's growing he thinks he can eat anything.
00:39:25.800 --> 00:40:05.639
But he would you know, he would eat what he would try and tune into what he needed and occasionally he would go actually really want a big bowl of salad and I'd be like falling off my chair again. Try not to react and because he was actually really tuned into what his body needed. And we forget you know, as adults as well we forget, we forget to listen. If you really if you really quiet if you're really still your body will tell you what it needs your head will tell you what it wants, which is a bit Cream Cake perhaps, but your body will actually tell you what it needs in when you're hungry and we don't know how to tune into that so mindful Eating is a huge area and it's really helpful way of getting people to to be healthier in their bed. Susie,
00:40:05.639 --> 00:40:06.869
that's what made all the difference for me.
00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:17.940
Yeah. And it wasn't I did it to myself without really thinking about it, I'd ended a relationship. And I basically just thought, I'm only going to eat what I really want, right?
00:40:17.940 --> 00:40:37.170
It's brilliant. And it the weight dropped off me. Yeah, it was the stresses were having a relationship. But actually, it was much more a reset, where I thought, what do I really, really want, and I'll only that so rather than eating my way through an entire fridge to get to the thing that I actually want, I'm just going to eat the thing I want. Straight away, whatever that is, where we
00:40:37.170 --> 00:40:53.550
eat emotionally. You know, we eat when we're stressed, we eat when we're bored. We eat when, when we're upset, because it's a quick way it's not. It's a numbing mechanism. It could be alcohol, it could be shopping, it could be anything else. It's a numbing mechanism. We don't want to something feels uncomfortable.
00:40:50.789 --> 00:40:56.909
We don't want to feel it. So we eat because it does it dulls it.
00:40:53.550 --> 00:41:00.840
But the problem is when we dial the uncomfortable stuff, we also dial everything else everything.
00:41:01.139 --> 00:41:05.070
You know, it's just it's just a mechanism where your coping mechanism.
00:41:05.429 --> 00:41:18.420
So we're talking about mindfulness is I'm 100%. Behind your message. I think actually, that's been everything for me too. Even though I didn't know it was mindfulness. Interesting.
00:41:14.369 --> 00:41:32.670
There's a fantastic program that I came across called Clementine programs.com. They've got a section called mindful eating improves teens lifetime relationship with food. And I rummaged through that website, I if people want to go to it, I recommend it, it's very good.
00:41:33.090 --> 00:41:47.070
And one of the things they said is that in general, the brain expects meals to take at least 20 minutes. So if you quickly consume food in 10 minutes or less, the brain still thinks you're not done. So there's that there's the speed of the eating.
00:41:47.550 --> 00:42:17.039
Then also, the brain takes into account the flavors of the foods such as sweet or salty. And this concept is known as a flavor point. And there are appetite centers in the brain that activate when a person eats, for example, something salty, and once it's had a little drop of salt in there, it expects to be filled. And if you don't continue filling everything, then you may end up craving clusters interesting to crave Yes. And then there's the mind gut connection, which really in science, we're only just starting to explore properly.
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:27.599
Tim Spector, who's the man behind the COVID study in the UK, who's got the biggest twin study in the world has been looking at food and the relationship with your genes.
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:40.469
And he's finding that there are identical twins whose bodies respond differently to the same food. Amazing. So it's coming back to what you were saying.
00:42:36.030 --> 00:42:50.789
It's that we actually have to be individual about this approach, we need to stop saying because what happens is we look outside of teams are going to say, so how do I get them? What do I do?
00:42:48.750 --> 00:43:07.619
So they're looking for information, this diet, that diet that there isn't a one size fits all diet at all. And that's what we're really starting to understand. And that also the digestive process is very complex. So if you're doing things while you're trying to eat, it's believed that it will now it'll interrupt that
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:40.889
digest or you're on autopilot from a mindfulness perspective, or you're in autopilot. When you're not really when you're just shoveling in food. And and when I teach mindfulness so we do a, you know, everyday practice, it could be with a raisin, or if it were doing a luxury version, it's with a chocolate. Yeah, it's really fun. Every time people do it, they're amazed like just as a minstrel. It's like not the best quality chocolate. But that's because it's got a shell and you can put it in your mouth, and then crunch it and then you go whoa.
00:43:36.210 --> 00:44:04.920
But every time I do it, somebody you know, people go, Wow, that was one chocolate. So what a waste. I had a woman the other day, she's like, Oh my God, all the minstrels I've wasted by just shoveling them in. So we slow down and we tune in and get out of being an automatic where you know, you have the classic bag of whatever you're eating sweets or popcorn and, and you're shoveling shoveling them in and you get to the bottom and you're like who's nicked them?
00:44:04.920 --> 00:44:26.909
Or who's almost weeds? And it was you in autopilot? So stepping out of autopilot getting into our bodies noticing and then tasting and then you know you don't need to eat the whole box. Because actually when if you're actually listening, you'll realize that by chocolate, depending on your where your bar is. By chocolate, five or six, you feel pretty done with chocolate.
00:44:26.940 --> 00:44:35.099
Yes, absolutely. And the portion sizes have changed dramatically.
00:44:30.360 --> 00:45:12.809
So our concept of what is the right portion size is completely confused. So once again, going back to how your body actually feels and looking at what's going on is important. So for example, mindfulness eating practices, exactly what you're saying. eliminating distractions when you're eating. Yeah, focus on the foods slow down the meals Yeah. And use your senses when you're eating to feel the texture of the food smell it Listen to the sounds taking time to appreciate food, which is why all the way through our teenagers progress, it's so important that we sit down for meals, it doesn't have to be every meal. Yeah,
00:45:12.869 --> 00:45:25.050
yeah. And we don't have to be weird about it and make it like super slow. And so my dad does that. And my kids, it drives them insane. They had said the other day, Mom, we were eating soup and granddad chewed it 40 times.
00:45:28.349 --> 00:45:54.179
So you can go the other way. That would be me, no teeth, just trying to you know, put prevention begins with open communication. And it's about encouraging healthy attitudes towards eating. So discussing how diet can affect your health, talking about how it can affect you your feelings rather than the way you look.
00:45:50.010 --> 00:46:10.949
Encouraging the team to eat when they're hungry. The one thing I did say to my teens, they say, just if you're not hungry, don't eat, you know, and then wait till you're hungry. Don't have someone say to you, oh, you need to eat right now. Because actually, what you're doing by making somebody eat when they're not hungry, is they're switching off their connection with their body.
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:15.869
Yeah, we don't do that often. And they never have to eat if they're not hungry.
00:46:13.500 --> 00:46:21.840
That is a thing, you know, house and actually, there was one had a sporting fixture in the morning. And I said, you really do need to have some breakfast.
00:46:22.230 --> 00:46:41.670
And he stopped, he turned around to me and he goes, what, but we have a thing. I don't have to eat, I'm not hungry. And I was like, Oh, that would be a good point. But if they come for a meal and they're not hungry, then we'll come to the meal anyway, because that's coming soon as you can drink. And quite often they take a little portion or they have it later. It's not a big deal. But it's
00:46:41.670 --> 00:47:07.469
about sharing time together. And body project which was developed by three universities, they found that their cognitive dissonance approach encourages girls and women's to question the media images that are projected to them about eating and about the way that they should look. And by talking about what is completely normal for a woman Yeah, and a woman's body can be very therapeutic. And it interrupts the bulimia. Anorexia progress.
00:47:07.469 --> 00:47:18.989
Yeah, so there's loads on social media going back to the digital thing. You know, there's loads of body positive people on social media who are doing amazing things where it's doing exactly what you're saying it's normalizing normal bodies,
00:47:19.320 --> 00:48:03.449
explaining to your your teenager that choosing a diet, which excludes things or you know, unless they've got allergies, for example, or focusing on one type of food group could compromise their nutrition and they're building a body, they really this is important for their future. And setting a good example not spending all your time worrying about losing weight, or your your, you know, because we we put this stuff on to our children naturally, because we're concerned ourselves and we come from a different era. And we speak the language that we were given by our parents, that's really important. And having nutritious snacks readily available can really be helpful for teenagers, because teenagers do reach for things mindlessly.
00:47:59.099 --> 00:48:13.829
So having all of that around, can be very helpful. And in my house, because I am lazy, greedy, and I will I will eat the stuff that's in front of me.
00:48:14.340 --> 00:49:06.300
You know, I've cleared the cupboards, we don't have crisps in the cupboards and biscuits and chocolates. I mean, we do a little bit but mostly they're not there. And I, I will, because my husband who's six foot four and never had to worry about eating at all, whereas I, you know, I have had to manage my eating. And my friend calls me a full skinny because, you know, I just don't eat much, but it's all healthy food. So I didn't want to fill up on crisps, because then I won't feel hungry for good food. And it also changes my tastebuds. So I basically stopped buying that stuff. But my husband still wants the crisps and the snacks and things. So he comes in the evening will disappear out to his car and come back from his Topshop, his mobile tuck shop so buys all this stuff and keeps him in his car. And I told my friend about that. And she said, Oh my God, that's genius. I'm going to make my husband keep all his snacks in the car and then everyone in the house will be in the car with him. Yeah, and I can have the house to myself.
00:49:07.739 --> 00:49:25.050
We hide snacks from my eldest, my daughter and I, we because he just eats them all within one evening. And and her other brother as well. It's massive chocoholic. He thinks he doesn't eat much sugar, but he really does. So we hide them now. And then we can enjoy them later.
00:49:26.849 --> 00:49:45.059
So I think really, mindfulness is the way to go. I 100%. For me, it was everything about what changed my my life and awareness, my attitude and I have no body issues now at all. I have no issues with my eating. I'm very comfortable with who I am. And it's all about taking that approach getting in contact with my body.
00:49:45.509 --> 00:49:46.949
Now I obviously agree.
00:49:49.349 --> 00:50:14.670
Cause Suzie, so the pinch points that I saw, were natural increases in body fat and weight associated with puberty. So look out for that, look out for your Is your child going to that do not say anything about them putting on weight. But if you start to see that they're panicking about it, try to help them understand that it's about healthy mindful eating. Not and it's trying to.
00:50:11.309 --> 00:50:14.670
And it's normal in
00:50:14.670 --> 00:50:21.599
our culture. It's slightly cruel that nature does that at a time it does. But, but that's only because we've been messed up with the way we look at bodies,
00:50:22.170 --> 00:50:22.769
especially
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:24.329
for biology, biological reasons.
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:38.039
And another one is an increased desire for peer acceptance. If there's if they are, that they've joined a new group, they've moved to a new school, they, you know, that that might be a time when it's going to change their view of themselves. Yeah, that's happened a
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:42.119
lot, because their acceptance flags are 10 I shouting
00:50:42.210 --> 00:50:58.469
Exactly. Onset of romantic interest. Yes, changes in academic expectations, another one, depression. And then it's what are they doing? Are they the sorts of people who are a competitive like me, who decides they're going to be the best, skinny person?
00:50:59.309 --> 00:51:03.960
Yes, perfectionism is massively at the root of particularly things like anorexia,
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:15.809
dancers and athletes. But this applies to boys and girls, because boys have different pressures, but they still need the mindful approach to eating. It's still very important, even though
00:51:15.809 --> 00:51:29.190
it's probably really foreign to them, you can do it a little bit. So you can just sort of drip it in slightly. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Because they probably won't go Oh, yay, let's be mindful and eat no, go Mom, you're weird what you're doing.
00:51:26.789 --> 00:51:29.369
But you can drip it in, you know,
00:51:30.570 --> 00:52:27.150
if you see extreme weight loss, frequently, skipping meals, or refusing to eat excessive focus on food, worry, or complaining about being fat, laxative, diuretics, any of this forces, the child vomiting, repeated episodes of eating abnormally, any of these sorts of things. You may well be beyond where it can be managed at home, but it is worth you have got to go in and engage, you do need to have conversations about this. If you're starting to think it's beyond your control, you do need to get some help. I bought a I bought books again, once again, I always go to the books because there's lots of really help. But if you're struggling to get help from the NHS, or from your own doctor in the country you're in because of either restrictions, money, whatever books out can be incorrect. There's some brilliant books out there in terms of helping teenagers with eating issues. Yeah.
00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:36.059
And people often panic and go in and start to to try and control the food and control the meals. And especially if they stop eating, we must get food into them. Yes.
00:52:36.059 --> 00:52:38.159
And that often makes it worse.
00:52:38.219 --> 00:52:40.349
Yes, absolutely. That's it for now.
00:52:40.380 --> 00:53:37.679
In the meantime, if you'd like to learn more about mindfulness, both one to ones and courses you can find Susie on Instagram, and her details are on Susie azulene mindfulness.co.uk. Next week, we look at a topic raised by a teacher at a school I visited she said one of the biggest problems they face is teenagers starting something, finding that they're not particularly good at it immediately, and then deciding to stop with or before they've really given it a chance. I think that's very familiar. Yes. And the other big issue which is the forming of new relationships, and particularly for girls, the toxic friendship groups that can form and the frenemies bullying with boys. We'll have a conversation about that. You've made it to the end of teenagers on tangled well done by the way, this doesn't even count towards your screen time so go get it if you want to. From Susie me.
00:53:33.570 --> 00:53:37.679
Thanks for being here. Goodbye.
00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:39.239
Until next time, bye for now.
